Guild Wars 2

So, I have been away from the game since forever, and came back to play now. It happens that now I see an issue that I never realized it was here because I never did many dungeon runs before.

I mean, the speed runs and how toxic they are.

You may tell me to google or youtube how to proper do a speedrun for X, Y or Z dungeons, but honestly? I was thinking, a new player using the LFG tool is really supposed to know this stuff just in order to not be kicked instantly from a group just because it failed to skip the whole dungeon?

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

Of course, this is just the personal opinion of a player that is somewhat frustrated that need to previously know these “hack runs” in order to join any dungeon activity outside of a guild environment.

I always thought this too. And sometimes I wish i could just do a dungeon fully and not skip everything and clear it in a few minutes… You should get a bonus reward for clearing the whole thing and not skipping mobs.

yhvh.8703:

Of course, this is just the personal opinion of a player that is somewhat frustrated that need to previously know these “hack runs” in order to join any dungeon activity outside of a guild environment.

Please explain exactly what is hacked about speed runs. Cite specifics. I will wait.

Also, are you able to start your own non-speedrun group?

Don’t join speed-run group.
It is rather easy to either find or create a casual normal group for all dungeons.

The main issue is that forcing people to clear all mobs might mean it will be even harder to get groups to do it. Since quite many of the dungeons have a rather large amount of high HP mobs.

Sorry, but this doesn’t need to be fixed. The LFG update has pretty much cleaned this up since anyone doing a speed run, or who isn’t interested in teaching people how to play, or is just an annoying elitist, will generally label their group as such.

Lvl 80, exp, AP 10k. If you see any of these labels and you have never done the dungeon before, this is not the group you want to be in.

You’re looking for more friendly introductions, more casual introductions.

It’s not a mater of being or not being toxic, it’s a matter of actually reading and understanding what you’re reading.

This topic has been discussed to death.

yhvh.8703:

I was thinking, a new player using the LFG tool is really supposed to know this stuff just in order to not be kicked instantly from a group just because it failed to skip the whole dungeon?

A new player has to open LFG and type “I’m a new player, I want to do this dungeon!” – and that’s it. If he failed to read “80 only, experienced, zerker, speedrun”, that’s not the group’s fault.

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players.

Confirmed to be working as intended by a Dev:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.
I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat. We encountered this when people just farmed the first boss in an instance and then restarted it (earlier around launch time), and we had to adjust the content as a result. It’s a fine line you have to walk to encourage players to get to the end, but make the process of getting there rewarding enough as well.

I don’t imagine this next update will resolve all the skipping behavior. The path of least resistance is engrained in people, and even if I do everything I could to incentivize people, there will still be those who skip stuff. I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

For now I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.

Unless they up the reward for killing elites, making things unskippable is just a bad idea.

We get a topic like this every week. The solution remains the same. Don’t join groups that clearly want to get through the dungeon quickly. It will be obvious based on the description of their lfg. Join or make a group that has no requirements. Inform your group at the beginning that you are not experienced. Make sure to look at your chat throughout the dungeon in case someone has typed something out to help you.

Also, skipping mobs is not hacking. Fully clearing a dungeon would be tedious, especially once you have done the dungeon many times. Making dungeons longer like that would not give a good impression to new players.

yhvh.8703:

“hack runs”

The game has skills granting invisibility, swiftness, invulnerability, stability, endurance regeneration, condition removal… but if we do anything useful with them it’s a hack?

Eh.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Confirmed to be working as intended by a Dev:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Can we have a minute of silence in memory of the only dev that actually cared for dungeons?

tear in my eye

By hack runs, I mean… climbing on a specific part of the wall to reset the mobs or something like this… But someone mentioned it was “fixed”, so I might be missing something.

Another thing, I don’t like to lead or create any group for a place that I’m not familiar with, hence why I look for the groups, and not make one myself.

Last, sorry but… 90% of the groups advertised ARE for speedruns, unless I’m being terribly unlucky.

The forum ate my long reply. Unfortunate, but you’ll get a short summary.

You can stop speed-runs in only one way – by making it not worth the time to do. However in doing so, you will reduce the number of dungeon groups by unacceptable margin – new players will simply have no groups to join. A good chunk of people who run regular runs now will stop doing it because for the same amount of time invested the reward will have to be smaller.

Any half-measure like making killing trash mandatory and increasing rewards to compensate for time loss will have people continue doing speed runs and kicking people who don’t kill fast enough/don’t know the dungeon well enough just like it happens now. Except the total time per dungeon will be longer.

yhvh.8703:

By hack runs, I mean… climbing on a specific part of the wall to reset the mobs or something like this… But someone mentioned it was “fixed”, so I might be missing something.

Another thing, I don’t like to lead or create any group for a place that I’m not familiar with, hence why I look for the groups, and not make one myself.

Last, sorry but… 90% of the groups advertised ARE for speedruns, unless I’m being terribly unlucky.

a hack is NOT using tethers.

A hack implies you’re using 3rd party programs to alter the game, they do exist (people can fly…)

Then ther are Exploits, basically utilizing things that aren’t working as the devs intended is the general meaning of that with regard to video games. This would be like finding a safespot where you can kill the boss and it can’t attack you.

Then there is simply manipulations of the game, where we utilize our superior brains to make the game work for us. This would be what using the tether system is. We know we can run past groupA and up the wall and they will deagro as they stop agroing at that distance. It’s simply mastering the system the devs created in such a way that we can get the best results. It’s really no different than kiting something, or interrupting an attack, ther is nothing we’re using that isn’t working as intended, we just know how to best work the system in place.

I doubt anyone would expect you to lead if you posted an LFG “New to path, come join me while I learn!” or something like that, heck you might even get someone who is there to lead you through.

So… You won’t join premade groups, nor create your own lfg and that resulted your little rant here because there isn’t the third solution. It’s hard to please you eh?

Noone said you need to lead the group if you create lfg, just make clear in lfg description what you want. It’s that easy really.

The only thing that new players including yourself need to understand is that when you see “zerk only” or “meta only” in a LFG party description, you need to stay away from it.

However, the vast majority of players don’t care if your zerker or meta, they just want you to be at least somewhat competent, that’s all. So just join one of those groups.

I really don’t see your problem here.

Lishtenbird.2814:

This topic has been discussed to death.

yhvh.8703:

I was thinking, a new player using the LFG tool is really supposed to know this stuff just in order to not be kicked instantly from a group just because it failed to skip the whole dungeon?

A new player has to open LFG and type “I’m a new player, I want to do this dungeon!” – and that’s it. If he failed to read “80 only, experienced, zerker, speedrun”, that’s not the group’s fault.

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players.

Confirmed to be working as intended by a Dev:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.
I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat. We encountered this when people just farmed the first boss in an instance and then restarted it (earlier around launch time), and we had to adjust the content as a result. It’s a fine line you have to walk to encourage players to get to the end, but make the process of getting there rewarding enough as well.

I don’t imagine this next update will resolve all the skipping behavior. The path of least resistance is engrained in people, and even if I do everything I could to incentivize people, there will still be those who skip stuff. I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

For now I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.

Then Hrouda was fired from Anet.

yhvh.8703:

Another thing, I don’t like to lead or create any group for a place that I’m not familiar with, hence why I look for the groups, and not make one myself.

Last, sorry but… 90% of the groups advertised ARE for speedruns, unless I’m being terribly unlucky.

Putting up a lfg doesn’t make you the party leader. I make my groups most of the time, but once people join we are equals. It only seems most groups are speedrun groups because normal groups fill up fast and are no longer listed.

What is stopping you from doing a dungeon with your guild to learn the dungeon first and then pugging later on?

This isn’t an issue with there being a toxic community. It’s an issue with not taking initiative.

yhvh.8703:

Another thing, I don’t like to lead or create any group for a place that I’m not familiar with, hence why I look for the groups, and not make one myself.

Last, sorry but… 90% of the groups advertised ARE for speedruns, unless I’m being terribly unlucky.

The non-speedrun groups fill up very fast. Speedrun groups sometimes take a few minutes even to get one or two people, depending on the dungeon. But “first time in the dungeon, everyone’s welcome” groups tend to fill quickly, so you don’t see them as often on the lfg.

You’re right, though—there are also fewer people creating groups like that than there are people creating speedrun groups. And we can only speculate why. Here are my guesses: the majority of people who are playing dungeons now are not doing them for the first time, and the majority of people who want to do a dungeon for the first time are like you, and don’t want to create a group.

But you have the tools, whether you want to use them or not. You can post things on lfg where you explicitly say you don’t know anything, and nobody will expect you to lead. You can also join a guild with people who like to do (and teach!) dungeons, although it sounds like you don’t want to do that. There are plenty out there; one is advertised in a sticky in this forum, with a name so clear that I really hope you’ve already clicked on it.

Edit: Of course, there are toxic people who play dungeons, too. Nobody can reasonably deny that (though I think there are far fewer than people like you suggest). And Anet have not given us great tools to avoid those people. But they have given us some tools—we do have some ability to group up with people who like to play the same way we do. Some of us use those tools to run dungeons quickly and efficiently, because that’s what they enjoy. Others use them to run dungeons casually and slowly, because that’s what they enjoy. The tools work pretty well most of the time.

yhvh.8703:

So, I have been away from the game since forever, and came back to play now. It happens that now I see an issue that I never realized it was here because I never did many dungeon runs before.

I mean, the speed runs and how toxic they are.

You may tell me to google or youtube how to proper do a speedrun for X, Y or Z dungeons, but honestly? I was thinking, a new player using the LFG tool is really supposed to know this stuff just in order to not be kicked instantly from a group just because it failed to skip the whole dungeon?

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

Of course, this is just the personal opinion of a player that is somewhat frustrated that need to previously know these “hack runs” in order to join any dungeon activity outside of a guild environment.

So now running through mobs qualifies as “hacking”?

Just like when someone guesses that youre facebook password is “password123” that person is also a l33t hax0r, right?

B I N G O
B I N G O
B I N G O
AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O

Lorgus.6148:

yhvh.8703:

So, I have been away from the game since forever, and came back to play now. It happens that now I see an issue that I never realized it was here because I never did many dungeon runs before.

I mean, the speed runs and how toxic they are.

You may tell me to google or youtube how to proper do a speedrun for X, Y or Z dungeons, but honestly? I was thinking, a new player using the LFG tool is really supposed to know this stuff just in order to not be kicked instantly from a group just because it failed to skip the whole dungeon?

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

Of course, this is just the personal opinion of a player that is somewhat frustrated that need to previously know these “hack runs” in order to join any dungeon activity outside of a guild environment.

So now running through mobs qualifies as “hacking”?

Just like when someone guesses that youre facebook password is “password123” that person is also a l33t hax0r, right?

Umm… i’ll be right back…

There is plenty of ways of running dungeons and the only way to get the run as you want is to play with ppl that want the same as you (guildmate or LFG description). Pugs never do dungeon as I do with my guildmate, they don’t go fast enough, don’t have enough dps, don’t stealth properly, stack in corner even when it’s not needed, use cc like idiots. I eat the pill because I’m pretty sure that the way I play is a pain in the kitten for other ppl. That’s what happen when you play with different ppl. They all gonna play differently.

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

You want to know if the community thinks this is an issue? Friend, the community is the issue.

There are also decent pug groups from time to time.

It’s more a luck thing. A lot of people even with high AP rates don’t know nowthing about the meta or anything about the class they’re playing.
So it depends. You can have a petty bad run or an awesome one.

It’s not that – much of – a big deal to just watch some videos getting used to dungeon mechanics. If you don’t want to follow the meta zerk thing – don’t. That’s the awesome thing about guild wars, you can do whatever pleases your taste. Just type in the LFG what you want or what you don’t want and people will join.
BUT
complaining about not having fun because of others enjoying doing things the fastest way possible isn’t the right way. Don’t join parties if you can’t fullfill their requirements. You won’t get called at or be kicked.

Just in case. There is nothing good in more than one warrior in a party when really playing ‘the meta’.

Post:
And if playing absolutely bad and or doing major mistakes – just listen, maybe the person just wants to give advice. In most cases it isn’t meant as an insult.
But calling names or kicking is just childish.
It might just be a game but manners don’t have to be completely forgotten because it’s a game.

Jahroots.6791:

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

You want to know if the community thinks this is an issue? Friend, the community is the issue.

Please tell us more about how the gw2 dungeon community is such a toxic cesspool, what with all their easily accessible guides, teaching guilds and informative videos.

Yes, the community truly is terrible, just look at how they dare play in a manner which doesn’t please OP, and then fail to bend over when he tells them their way of playing is “bad” and leads to “bad impressions to new players”.

This is not a player issue, it’s a rewards issue. It’s entirely on the developer’s that dungeons are skipped, because the trash packs bear no meaningful rewards and the maps and design with stealth/ports allows players to skip these things.

Don’t blame the players for getting the most out of their time investment, blame the developers for creating content that is both skippable and is so unrewarding that people want to get it done ASAP.

If you’re willing to do it slowly, go post your own LFG saying ‘Newbie friendly’ or something like that. The people who join those know up front to expect people to watch the video and not try to skip everything. I tend to do that for my guild groups where I need 1-2 more people. I warn them upfront we’re not going fast.

Lorgus.6148:

Jahroots.6791:

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

You want to know if the community thinks this is an issue? Friend, the community is the issue.

Please tell us more about how the gw2 dungeon community is such a toxic cesspool, what with all their easily accessible guides, teaching guilds and informative videos.

Yes, the community truly is terrible, just look at how they dare play in a manner which doesn’t please OP, and then fail to bend over when he tells them their way of playing is “bad” and leads to “bad impressions to new players”.

That’s not the meaning I intended to convey at all. The majority of the dungeon community has always valued speed and efficiency over everything else, so I find it amusing that the OP even asks this, when the answer is quite obvious. What he considers to be an issue is something most of us have put a lot of effort into achieving. Hence, the community is the ‘issue’.

Jahroots.6791:

Lorgus.6148:

Jahroots.6791:

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

You want to know if the community thinks this is an issue? Friend, the community is the issue.

Please tell us more about how the gw2 dungeon community is such a toxic cesspool, what with all their easily accessible guides, teaching guilds and informative videos.

Yes, the community truly is terrible, just look at how they dare play in a manner which doesn’t please OP, and then fail to bend over when he tells them their way of playing is “bad” and leads to “bad impressions to new players”.

That’s not the meaning I intended to convey at all. The majority of the dungeon community has always valued speed and efficiency over everything else, so I find it amusing that the OP even asks this, when the answer is quite obvious. What he considers to be an issue is something most of us have put a lot of effort into achieving. Hence, the community is the ‘issue’.

The “issue” is that there is so much rewarding faceroll leechstick loot-pinata in this game known as open world. People can simply be in the right place at the right time and get fully rewarded so long as they mash some buttons.

These people then go into dungeons and gasp at the audacity that party mates actually have the gall to hold them even the least bit accountable for actually knowing their class or being somewhat familiar with combat mechanics (avoid red circles, etc).

“Efficient” dungeon runs are the only way dungeons even have a chance to top rewards from spamming loot pinatas open world. I guarantee that if rewards from open world get cut in half, making even casual dungeon runs more relatively profitable, you will no longer see this “widespread efficiency dungeon meta”.

Direct me to these rewarding loot-pinatas in the open world, for I have never seen them and could do with some extra coin. Unless by ‘rewarding’ you mean to say that a cute little bouncing chest filled with absolute tripe pops up every ten minutes or so.

An hour’s worth of dungeon paths always beats the equivalent in open world farming. Hands down.

For what it’s worth, I take issue with neither casual and unskilled game play nor coordinated and tactical dungeon runs. There’s room for everyone here. The problem is the people who seem clueless about basic human behaviour and are unable to accept differing play styles.

Jahroots.6791:

Lorgus.6148:

Jahroots.6791:

yhvh.8703:

I think the possibility of these paths being skippable by running through mobs only leads to bad gameplay and puts a very bad impression on new players. I wonder if the community thinks this is actually an issue that needs to be looked upon in the expansion.

You want to know if the community thinks this is an issue? Friend, the community is the issue.

Please tell us more about how the gw2 dungeon community is such a toxic cesspool, what with all their easily accessible guides, teaching guilds and informative videos.

Yes, the community truly is terrible, just look at how they dare play in a manner which doesn’t please OP, and then fail to bend over when he tells them their way of playing is “bad” and leads to “bad impressions to new players”.

That’s not the meaning I intended to convey at all. The majority of the dungeon community has always valued speed and efficiency over everything else, so I find it amusing that the OP even asks this, when the answer is quite obvious. What he considers to be an issue is something most of us have put a lot of effort into achieving. Hence, the community is the ‘issue’.

Fair enough, I must’ve misinterpreted your post.
But I’m not sure it’s the community that’s at fault for valuing efficiency, but rather the design of the dungeons themselves. If the trash were designed to be a rewarding a part of the experience, I’m sure the most efficient way to do paths would be to clear everything.

Jahroots.6791:

Direct me to these rewarding loot-pinatas in the open world, for I have never seen them and could do with some extra coin. Unless by ‘rewarding’ you mean to say that a cute little bouncing chest filled with absolute tripe pops up every ten minutes or so.

An hour’s worth of dungeon paths always beats the equivalent in open world farming. Hands down.

Only in an efficient group. That’s why people ask for them.

For what it’s worth, I take issue with neither casual and unskilled game play nor coordinated and tactical dungeon runs. There’s room for everyone here. The problem is the people who seem clueless about basic human behaviour and are unable to accept differing play styles.

You mean like this guy?

Jahroots.6791:

Direct me to these rewarding loot-pinatas in the open world, for I have never seen them and could do with some extra coin. Unless by ‘rewarding’ you mean to say that a cute little bouncing chest filled with absolute tripe pops up every ten minutes or so.

An hour’s worth of dungeon paths always beats the equivalent in open world farming. Hands down.

SW Chest farming is pretty awesome. I’d have trouble believing it wasn’t close to par if not exceeding dungeons. And when you compare effort, well it really isn’t a fair comparison at all.

Don’t disagree with the attitude displayed in most dungeons, just, well SW chest farming is pretty crazy.

People who use dungeons/open world farm to make money are fools. The trading post is where the real money is made, as there is no time gate or diminishing returns to trading.

The people you saw early on with 5+ legendaries a few months into the game? Trading post.

Dungeons are almost 3 years old. We’ve beaten them every day many times. We mastered every path.

Dungeons are difficult but we learned them. If you want to do dungeons well OP, not exactly speedrun, learn them. Don’t expect other players to carry you.

And find a guild. Playing with pugs as new dungeoneer is a painful experience.

1. Mobs that are not optional have a barrier to prevent you from progressing if you go further. No barrier means they are optional.
2. Don’t join a speed run group and complain about it if you don’t want to do a speed run.

Hello OP.
You seem like a very wise guy and your arguments are extremely thought-out and planned.
Making mobs unskippable will surely enough stop those toxic elitists right in their tracks!
What will they ever do if they will be forced to kill everything? Well for sure they won’t yell at you for not killing them faster.

Jerus.4350:

SW Chest farming is pretty awesome. I’d have trouble believing it wasn’t close to par if not exceeding dungeons.

I compared with some care (7000 SW chests) — I make more money in SW than in “zerk exp” dungeon PUGs doing AC 1/2/3, CM 1/2/3, TA F/U, SE 1/3, COF 1.

I’m sure you speedrun types do better than me (I reckon on ~40 mins for AC). Though so do the SW pros who run around just tagging every event on the map, and do what amounts to chestfarm speedclears in specialised guild runs.

I wonder how the Tequatl/TT guilds compare?

But I do dungeons to get better at them, rather than to make money.

I am a pretty experienced dungeoneer and pugger, but I deliberately look for groups that aren’t speedrun, and I frequently re-run story mode because I like to help people learn. I always list my own groups as “All welcome” for the same reason, and I fill up almost instantly. If you don’t like the listings other people are making, just make your own. If you put in the description that you are first time, or want to fully clear, or w/e, the people who join will generally be super patient and forgiving.

Try doing one of those “chill” Arah runs where they kill every mob pack and you’ll quickly understand why people skip and do “speed” runs. You can kill every pack in Arah and what you’ll get out of that wasted time is less than half a gold if anything at all from what is likely to drop.

This game doesn’t introduce rewarding loot tables for trash mobs unlike other MMO’s raids who have a good chance to drop high quality loot. So people skip it.

Well, today I played AC story and there was this one guy rushing ahead skipping everything leaving everyone behind. Then he started complained. Then he got kicked.

That’s how you deal with elitists.

Are we still discussing this? Why are we still discussing this?

Go make your own group, state that you are new, search for a guide or for 4 other newbs. Done. You’ll have fun, some of the dungeons are really awesome.

OR you join lfg’s where you don’t understand half the description, then die 5x at skips and then get yelled at and kicked.

I cannot belive how many people choose the later one…

Molch.2078:

Are we still discussing this? Why are we still discussing this?

Go make your own group, state that you are new, search for a guide or for 4 other newbs. Done. You’ll have fun, some of the dungeons are really awesome.

OR you join lfg’s where you don’t understand half the description, then die 5x at skips and then get yelled at and kicked.

I cannot belive how many people choose the later one…

How dare you insinuate that those people who kick aren’t evil.

Accepting the realities of the world is the most evil thing you can do.

You’re jsut elitist trash! I’m ashamed to even be playing the same game as you, ANet should do something about people like you!!!!!!

;)

Duno about you but when I do a dungeon the 300th time I really cant be kitten d with non experienced players dragging it out 4 times longer than it should be, there is nothing stopping you from finding or starting a group for a casual new player run where you all experience things together but dont expect people that have done it a billion times to put up with that.

I would like to add something. I think that most new players will stay away from groups properly tagged as not meant for them.
The problem most likely arises due to not-so-explicitely tagged groups. Pretty often you see a simple “p1” or “story”. And with these you have absolutely no idea what you get.
Granted, the majority of these seem to be what I label “quick” runs. Not an actual speedrun per se, but meant to finish the dungeon in a reasonably quick way. Which requires players who know what they are doing to some degree.

Then of course there are people like me who are guilty of using the simple “p1” tag as a signal for “free for all”. If I want specifics, my tag will show these. But for most these “nondescript” groups seem to imply a “quick run”.

So I think it can be resonably tricky for a new player who joins a group where you actually can’t discern, what people expect. As I said, I am guilty of this not so clearly tagging myself and I should probably change that in the future.

So I think to tell someone inexperienced to stay away from the “zerk/meta/experienced/XYZ AP/whatever” groups isn’t truly helping and comes of as condescending. Because they most likely will do that unless they are so inexperienced at the game that they don’t understand some of the shorthand. Or are simply idiots, who don’t care. but you get the latter ones with experienced players as well.

Maybe the game could profit from an ingame tutorial about how to properly use the lfg tool. Might help with the inexperienced players’ concerns.
Won’t help with the idiots though, because they won’t read it or won’t care.

And still the other day I put this description in the LFG.

‘’READ : All paths, 80s, EXPERIENCED ONLY’’ and got 2 ppl with less than 1k AP. They did the dungeon twice, so they considered themselves experienced.

Having returned only a week ago since launch I find it funny how long-time players say they do speed runs because they have done it so many times and find it boring so they need it to go fast. Basically you’re telling me you play the game even though it isn’t fun.

Kind of how a lot of the streamers look dead bored and the game hasn’t excited them in ages but they do dungeon runs that take little effort day in day out to get their reward out of habit despite the 5+ legendaries and 4k+ gold. MMO players seem to forget why they play games.

DeviLish.3760:

Having returned only a week ago since launch I find it funny how long-time players say they do speed runs because they have done it so many times and find it boring so they need it to go fast. Basically you’re telling me you play the game even though it isn’t fun.

Kind of how a lot of the streamers look dead bored and the game hasn’t excited them in ages but they do dungeon runs that take little effort day in day out to get their reward out of habit despite the 5+ legendaries and 4k+ gold. MMO players seem to forget why they play games.

You misunderstand.
If people didn’t find gw2 fun, they wouldn’t play it.
People doing speedruns do so because it is fun for them to push for better times and efficiency, to improve dps and rotations. Different people can play for different reasons and that’s ok, it takes all sorts.

just another post. they may be 200 + . just make you own looking for gruop dude.

The fact is that your intend is to do dungeon as fast as possible, but you don’t want to learn how this is done.

Otherwise there’s no reason to ask to the comunity why we play the way we want in a game that is intended to make this a common sense for players base.

also, when you pug, just stay behind and let people who know what to do carry the others who don’t…

1) You dont have to join a LFG that does “Speed runs”
2) You can create your own LFG made for Full clears
3) You can look on the forums/reddit for players that like you want to play it in what you call “fun”
4) You dont have to learn the dungeons like “Speed Runners” do, you can be lazy all you want, but dont tell others that they cant speed run or look for speed runners
5) Playing how you want with people you want isnt toxic, there is no problem with Zerker/speed meta, why? B.c you can make your own groups and play with players liked minded like you.

IMO some skipable parts are Fun, the Ability to “Run past without dying” is a different style of game play, I would LOVE a dungeon path to be 99% running past packs and designed like that. Some ppl enjoy different game types.

If these mobs wasnt option then it would be different, but many of the trash packs are indeed and option.

If you dont want trash skips, play Ta Aether, or make your own lfg.