Guild Wars 2

Quam.7218:

This is about how the Dungeons are over powered for AVERAGE players. […] and the desctiption how an "average player is

This is NOT how an average player is…

The player You descibed there is a “I-log-in-once-a-week-and-I-want-to-do-every-dungeon-there-is-without-me-have-to-do-or-lern-anything-about-the-game” player… there is a game like this it’s called WoW… you go to dungeon and… there You go it’s done, You do not need to know anything no challenge just pressing the button and loot.

This is the similar situation to:

“I learned for the exam only one-two hours a week and I want to pass it, if not the exam is to hard for an average student like me so You have to make it easyier for an avarage student like me”.

If You really want dungeons to be nerfed becouse of “You” who thinks of himself as an “average” player (and You are not an average player sir You are far far far beneth average really) than You are behaving just selfish. So many try to help here and give advices and You are only “I”, “average” “too hard” in every post.

Maybe this game is just not for You. You want reward ? You have to work for it.

I agree you need to work for the reward make it feel worth while, but I’ve enjoyed playing Dark Souls so that’s just the person I am.

My problem with what you are saying is that you aren’t actually helping at all by saying it. You come off sounding like the “elitist” that everyone keeps describing. Also, although I never have played it, I always thought WoW dungeons where these huge events that required ridiculous planning (ie. Leeroy Jenkins).

Case in point, the “average gamer” is usually closer to the casual spectrum than the hardcore, but we shouldn’t be bothering with labeling who’s what and why anyways. the point of the topic is that there are a lot of people who do, as a matter of fact, have a hard time to dungeons. My cousin was actually about to never do dungeons again after running the AC story for the first time, simply because no one in our group really knew what they where doing and it turned into a “throw your life away for justice” zerg against every boss.

10-20 runs later of various dungeons, I find the story mode of AC almost laughable, thanks to my personal friends the boulders. Case in point, what you should be saying is “Practice makes perfect, you just need to stick with it and think outside the box” instead of being such a jerk about it.

nachtnebel.9168:

How about this, why don’t you tell me what Gear and Traits that are “easily obtainable” gets an Ele 15k HP? (All costs must be less then 2 Gold)

At lvl 80 your base health is 10805, so you just need 420 additional Vitality to reach 15k HP.

Take invader weapons – those you get for Badges of Honor – to get your first 128 Vit, so you only need 292 more to reach your goal.

Guess I should have mentioned no PvP?

Next pick one of the following armor sets (just examples, there are more out there with different stat combinations)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Durmand_Priory_armor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigil_armor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aurora_armor_of_Melandru
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whispering_armor_of_Infiltration
or craft your own items with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie_Intricate_Gossamer_Insignia
and use one of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune#Vitality as runes if you still don’t
have enough Vit.

Many of those runes cost over a gold each, needing 5 of them minimum to complete the Vit portion of the bonuses.

Finally spend your trait points in Water and/or Earth.

Wolla, every item is below 2 gold or an equally hard to obtain amount of karma/badges. Of course, you can’t go full DPS with gear and traits like that, but you also don’t need to since GW2 is not about DPS, not at all.

The Average Player is:
First time in AC Story (It is the First dungeon)
Casual Dungeon Runner (1-2 a week, perhaps a few more on weekends)
Not an absolute Expert in their class
Not “perfectly” spec’d
Rare Armor at best
Not a Tactical Genious
Not using Voice Chat
Not capable of mid fight chatting

No, not even close, not at all.

The average player
- has done Story Mode before
- might not have finished a dungeon yet but has seen it before
- probably only does one dungeon each second day
- wears a combination of rares and exotics, sometimes a few masterworks but most definitively no fine items

Basicly what I was saying, not sure why you say not even close about this part, though having exotics, that’s expensive, and getting to the vendors that sell the Karma versions, that needs a group I havn’t gotten together yet.

- is not a tactical genius but understands mechanics once they have been explained to him and would be able to figure out solutions on his own if he could spend more time playing the game
- doesn’t own a teamspeak server but has a headset or is at least willing to join your TS and to listen to your commands
- is capable of mid fight chatting while fighting trash packs

No, the average player doesn’t do Voice Chat, true some might be willing to log in to a Voice Chat server to listen but a headset is not cheap. (I have one, I use one, but not everyone else does, I also don’t like logging in to “random” Voice Chat servers.)

No, typing in chat while trying to do combat is not within the Average players skillset, this causes a pause in their attacks AND Dodging. What people seem to be calling Trash Mobs are so buffed up as to be like fighting a group of Vets or worse.

On a side note, I just spent about a gold (all my money) on those Superior Runes of the Ice, thanks for pointing me to those, though now I’m broke. Won’t be trying any dungeons till I have money for repairs again.

I get to play on weekends only, I’m a truck driver and don’t have a internet connection when I’m on the road. I want to do the dungeons but it’s a complete waste of my time. The only dungeon I have completed so far was the mad king halloween one. And it was a cake walk compared to the only other one I’ve even tried which was AC. I’ve gotten to the lover’s once and only once. after about the 10th corpse run, I gave up. I’ve got better things to do with my time than turn a game into a job.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

Guess I should have mentioned no PvP?

Well, GW2 is mainly about PvP so “no PvP” is not really an option. But if you don’t want to do PvP there are a lot exotics with Vit as their main stat in the TP. Some of them for 2g or even less.

Many of those runes cost over a gold each, needing 5 of them minimum to complete the Vit portion of the bonuses.

Than take just majors, they are very cheap and will do until you can afford superior runes. Or don’t take runes at all and just use gems.

Basicly what I was saying, not sure why you say not even close about this part, though having exotics, that’s expensive, and getting to the vendors that sell the Karma versions, that needs a group I havn’t gotten together yet.

Neither do you need a group nor are exotics exkittenve. My main was full exotic shortly after I reached 80, while the TP was still deactivated. I haven’t bough a single item.

No, the average player doesn’t do Voice Chat, true some might be willing to log in to a Voice Chat server to listen but a headset is not cheap. (I have one, I use one, but not everyone else does, I also don’t like logging in to “random” Voice Chat servers.)

A solid headset is less than 20€, which is, compared to what the rest of your hardware cost, very cheap. Especially since the average gamer has a job and can afford to spent some money on his hobby. He won’t have a sota gaming headset, but that’s absolutely not necessary. Voice Chat is standard nowadays, most people use it.

And of course the average gamer has a headset. How I know? As I said before I run dungeons with PuGs on almost a daily base and more than 90% of the people I play with join the TS instantly after I posted the IP. And yes, I explicitly state that casuals and newbies are welcome. This and the fact that a lot of the people I play with have never seen or completed the dungeon before doesn’t make it very likely that all the players that answer my LFM requests are so-called elite or hardcore players.

No, typing in chat while trying to do combat is not within the Average players skillset, this causes a pause in their attacks AND Dodging. What people seem to be calling Trash Mobs are so buffed up as to be like fighting a group of Vets or worse.

Well, in fact trash mobs are veterans. And as for chatting during combat, you don’t have to constantly dodge or use skills, you even can’t do that cause you have cooldowns and your endurance is limited (unless you are playing a Thief, theirs seems to be endless^^). Typing 2-5 words while your toon has nothing to do but to spam its auto attack is definitively within an average players skillset.

The average gamer is what you get when you spam LFM in /m while standing in front of the dungeon you want to do. Every now and then you get an elite or hardcore gamer, but those who tell you that they have never been in that dungeon before are probably not a member of that caste. You can also find average gamers in WvW, there they are called randoms cause they don’t belong to an organized group. But even there they happily join our TS and even ask for it if we haven’t posted its IP in a while. Those average gamers meet all the requirements I posted. So, unless you are trying to tell me that GW2 is mainly played by hardcore and elite gamers and only about 10% or less of its player base are average you are wrong about what makes an average gamer.

On a side note, I just spent about a gold (all my money) on those Superior Runes of the Ice, thanks for pointing me to those, though now I’m broke. Won’t be trying any dungeons till I have money for repairs again.

I’m glad, I could help. But I have one question: On what did you spend all your money?
As I reached 80 (before the trading post was up) I had 3-4g (without using the karma exploit or anything like that) and I didn’t knew what to do with it. I got all this just by selling stuff to the vendors.

If you don’t have the time to practice dungeons or get better at them, then they’re probably not for you. If you’re that limited on time, then there are plenty of other things to do in this game that don’t require as much time and effort.

It’s always the case of “I don’t have enough time” or “I can’t do this” when plenty of people find the time and effort to do it. Not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter in video games.

Make friends that will group with ya or do it with your guildies.

Start off with the easier exp dungeons AC (all paths) or CoF 1/2.
Get some gear from tokens before trying the harder dungeon paths.

I started off as a guardian melee-ing with a shield and shield in all RARES and I still managed to survive all the time.
Learn to dodge and avoid the red circles and your fine.

And dont expect games to hand you stuff freely, even in WoW you gotta grind heroic dungeons for gear before attempting the next tier of content. Easy then hard, same as GW2.

But however if you don’t want to learn anything, then do like what kuthos say.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

My groups have generaly been level 80s with level 80 gear, My gear is Toughness/Power/Precision, this is Rare quality gear. As an elementalist, I still die to most Dungeon mobs in 3-4 hits with inadiquate methods of avoiding getting hit. (No Agro control at all, in fact I think being an Ele puts me at the top of the agro list.)

Groups have been well mixed class wise.

Drake, taking toughness on an ele is a bad idea since toughness draws aggro. Its best to take vitality. Also note that healing power also draws aggro. I may be mistaken but thats my conclusion after the research I’ve made both in game and on the web.

i completely agree with u on the ridiculous difficulty the dungeons are set at. mostly everyone who knocked u down and said u do not know what u are doing, if u noticed have a regular group they run with. they are all mostly 80s with leg. gear, and like they said have learned and learned and learned, till they could beat the dungeon. the problem is the maj, do not have that leisure of groups all the time. hence making it difficult for the success of pugs. i know even in my guild, when someone suggests doing a dungeon no one wants to go. the lines waiting to get into dungeons are a lot shorter than when the game started. i think in it all., we have to look at the numbers. it seems to me and others i have talked to, a lot of people have quit this game. we have to ask y ? i would venture to guess that not all of them were elite players, and they certainly were not the worst players either. they have become frustrated with arena net not acknowledging the communities feedback of them needing to tone things down. all across the board. seriously, how is it that in AC <just ex> a full group of 80s. that even know what they are doing, can die so much. for those of u that say, u need patience, u dont know what ur doing. seriously . be honest with urself. u have memorized the dungeons, and u still are dying a lot , u just dont want to admit it to urselves. like i said. lets look at the numbers. are as many people playing now as on launch ? and u cant blame wow. a lot of people playing this game that are not anymore, never played wow. arena net. i hope u change the tone of this game. u promised a lot of things, got all of our hopes up, but really ur entire structure is driven to bring in profits from purchasing items from lions, to compensate for not charging us a sub. and for those of u that are frustrated with dungeons, and hate paying 5 silver or more in repair bills, and people leaving in the middle of dungeons because they are to hard. ur not alone. speak up. and maybe arenanet will change their tone.

kreo.2674:

i completely agree with u on the ridiculous difficulty the dungeons are set at. mostly everyone who knocked u down and said u do not know what u are doing, if u noticed have a regular group they run with. they are all mostly 80s with leg. gear, and like they said have learned and learned and learned, till they could beat the dungeon. the problem is the maj, do not have that leisure of groups all the time. hence making it difficult for the success of pugs. i know even in my guild, when someone suggests doing a dungeon no one wants to go. the lines waiting to get into dungeons are a lot shorter than when the game started. i think in it all., we have to look at the numbers. it seems to me and others i have talked to, a lot of people have quit this game. we have to ask y ? i would venture to guess that not all of them were elite players, and they certainly were not the worst players either. they have become frustrated with arena net not acknowledging the communities feedback of them needing to tone things down. all across the board. seriously, how is it that in AC <just ex> a full group of 80s. that even know what they are doing, can die so much. for those of u that say, u need patience, u dont know what ur doing. seriously . be honest with urself. u have memorized the dungeons, and u still are dying a lot , u just dont want to admit it to urselves. like i said. lets look at the numbers. are as many people playing now as on launch ? and u cant blame wow. a lot of people playing this game that are not anymore, never played wow. arena net. i hope u change the tone of this game. u promised a lot of things, got all of our hopes up, but really ur entire structure is driven to bring in profits from purchasing items from lions, to compensate for not charging us a sub. and for those of u that are frustrated with dungeons, and hate paying 5 silver or more in repair bills, and people leaving in the middle of dungeons because they are to hard. ur not alone. speak up. and maybe arenanet will change their tone.

First of all: use capitals, please.

Secondly: 80s with legendary gear? So far there are only single people out there, who got thier “legies”. You mean exotic probably and You are still wrong. I’m running dungeons from the beginning in rare equipment (as do my friends, with whom I currently do dungeons) hoping to get my exotic sets for tokens (which will happen soon enough). Hell, i began running in blues and greens only! Of course they where harder then they are now, but they were doable.

Thirdly: go around other locations asking for dungeon parties. Mainly Lion’s Arch, on primetime hours groups form every five minutes for almost every dungeon.

Nextly: group of 80s knowing AC and still dying a lot is only their own fault. Of course, accidents happen and even a good party can get a wipe or two (which they shouldn’t anyway). Dying isn’t a bad thing. Even dying a lot, when you are still learning.

I won’t address the rest of this rumble-mumble.

Dungeons are instances that are meant for coordinated players, who can play and know their classes well. They are meant to be hard and they are hard. There are several other issues connected with dungeons. They are boring, had some design flaws, etc. I won’t talk about it here, I think a lot of people addressed these issues in a lot of different threads.

tl;dr. dungeons are not way overpowered

lol to people who thinks that a lvl 30-40 players can afford to dress full rare at 40….
Even all masterwork is too much…..

Dungeons are designed for lvls 80 possibly half exotic, or just alts of players knowing dungeon TRICKS and dressed in full rare.

TLDR:
I complained about dungeon difficulty like you until i got half my gear exotic….they became doable then…when i got full exotic they became easy >.>

I can’t stay put when fighting “trash mobs” for the same reason it doesn’t matter of Toughness is an agro magnet. I’m an Ele, I agro everything just by existing. All my auto attacks agro everything in the area weather I want to or not except Earth, I’m not sure if the Staff Earth 1 ability agros everything. Fire is a An AOE centered on the target, Air hits secondary targets near the primary target with “arcs” Water heals all nearbuy allies, and healing means agroing anything that has those allies on their “list.” Yes, I supose I could sit in earth for trash mobs so they don’t ALL agro on me at once, but that takes too long. Better to accept the fact I’ll be taking all the agro, run around dropping fire fields while everyone else might be able to stand around chatting.

Dungeons however, are not just a problem for Elementalists, I just can’t speak for any other classes.

On a funny side note, I’ve heard of a group of all Mesmers who cake walked a dungeon… well I supose if you take a group of 30 into a dungon you are bound to win.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

Wasabi, yes, it is average, average is not “Average player who does dungeons all the time” That would be a subset of players, I’m talking about Average Players from accross the spectrum.

Yup have to agree here, and with all your points in your opening post.

Dungeons are too difficult for “average/casual” players, I find them difficult and frustrating, there’s no logic to them.

Mobs are just stupid or trash mobs.

There’s no warning of your about to die, it’s just your dead, thats it.

You can’t really fail, it’s just die waypoint/repair until you get bored.

There will always be people that will say “They are too easy”, “We do them daily”, “change your build”, or whtever, but there’s no getting away from the fact that they are very hard and frustrating for “average/casual” players".

I would not say that dungeons in general are to hard. But they have severe issues.

- They had those severe zoning/group issues. That was a bad start so probably many people avoided them since then. I know I did. But that was not the only reason.
- They have no real progression. Actually it is more like an inverse progression. If you want to do AC with level 35 with your leveling gear it is much harder than for a level 80 in master/rare gear.
- They lack in some parts any indication of danger. If you are new to a dungeon this might get frustrating.

For any PuG/not max level groups with no voice system they can be really hard and most of the time definately no fun.

It looks like even Anet realizes that dungeons are not used as much as they want. So unfortunately they made them a reuqirement for the november monthly achievements so people play them more often.

I will probably do 5 story mode runs and leave them alone again.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

All my auto attacks agro everything in the area weather I want to or not except Earth, I’m not sure if the Staff Earth 1 ability agros everything. Fire is a An AOE centered on the target, Air hits secondary targets near the primary target with “arcs” Water heals all nearbuy allies, and healing means agroing anything that has those allies on their “list.”

So, if that’s true – which it is just for some mobs – and you know it but can’t handle the attention, why don’t you just use a different weapon set? You don’t have to use Staff at all, try Scepter.

Yes, I supose I could sit in earth for trash mobs so they don’t ALL agro on me at once, but that takes too long. Better to accept the fact I’ll be taking all the agro, run around dropping fire fields while everyone else might be able to stand around chatting.

Nothing “takes too long” that’s an important thing to understand. You don’t have to beat mobs, you have to survive them. Once you got that, dungeons become way easier.

Dungeons however, are not just a problem for Elementalists, I just can’t speak for any other classes.

There you arer right, it’s not about Eles or any other professions, it’s about which kind of player you are and if you accpet the fact that GW2 is not like WoW or most other MMOs out there.

On a funny side note, I’ve heard of a group of all Mesmers who cake walked a dungeon… well I supose if you take a group of 30 into a dungon you are bound to win.

…. seriously?!
Illusions and Phantasms are almost useless in dungeons, they are nothing more but a DoT effect for a brief moment, if anything, they make it harder cause they, much like the Necro’s mininons, tend to add mobs from accross the room.

AC explore’s any path , since that is the dungeon mostly used as example in the conversation, is doable in 30 minutes or even less, by a pug party of 5 or even 4 ppl of 35 lvl each.(without skipping anything ofc)
Those ppl can even trait their chars randomly and use generic lvl up gear with random stats. The place is THAT easy!! All you have to do is ctl-target mobs(so it is easy for all to press T and target the same mob), use dodge whenever needed and that’s that. And yet you see ppl qq about it…. If you do not believe me wisper me ingame to take u a stroll to the place ^^

yeah sure….
show me a vid of 5 lev 35 ELEMENTALIST (just saying a low HP low armor class) with blue gear finishing the dungeon easily….

Without any AI abuse possibly…..
lol you cannot even stand a chance against LT…even if you evade all his hook attacks.
Also ifyou can EVADE his hook attacks WHILE taking care of his minions
Or don t say me you use “divide et impera” tactics because its just blatant AI abuse…

Even most lvl 80 in full exotic abuse AI……then comes here to say “dungeons are so easy…..”

Any player playing with random party knows it…

I say this one more time, dungeons are NOT hard. But some of them have high learning curve, but thats how it should be.

You find dungeons too hard? You have 10 full time jobs, 20 kids, 30 dogs, so you dont have that much time to run them?

WHO CARES ! You better make time or stop complaining.

And by the way. For those who complain that explorables are too hard for random group of people, etc .. Here is news for you .. Areanet already stated that explorable dungeons in Guild Wars 2 are ment to be done only with skilled and coordinated group of players. Not with random player groups !!! And yet i can finish every one of them with pugs. sadly ..

really … overtuned dungeons in gw2??!! Maybe for dead horse without a brain …

Common sentences used in “coordinated and SKILLED” groups.

-lets pull here that mob so we can kill it and then face the others….
-jumping here avoids the battle
-just run the next part
-pull the boss out of his room so we can fight her without traps
-you can hit the mob in the other room through the wall

I think most people can confirm

Also because:
I want to see lvl 35 skilled players storm the central area of LT ghost facing the whole group as its supposed to be done….

They are too hard for their requisites and quite easy at max lvl that’s all.
Also lvl 80 are often easier than lvl 35-45, not to mention that there is no diffculty progression…..TA first boss is the harder….then all becomes easier.

Dungeon difficulty is fine. Needing organized exp groups is fine. This is the endgame after all people. You need to look at these as raids in other games. You didnt just grab a pug and burn through those 2 months after they were out. I have successfully pugged every exp path outside of Arah (which agreed is a pain). Was I lucky? yeah some, but It gets done in the end.

I am also a casual, my wife and I play 2 to 3 days a week for maybe 2 hours a sitting. Just keep at it and the reward for getting them done is that much sweeter.

I recently did an ac explo with me being the highest lvl (80), and the rest were around 30-50. Iirc, we had a 40+ guardian, a 35 ele, a 50+thief and a necro i think (not sure). We did LT just fine. much MUCH better than when I did it with my guildies (we were 3 lvl 80 in full exotics, and a 36 ele and 35 ranger). I admit having full exo gear does help a bit, but knowing how to play your class well is also integral.

I actually want to take on that challenge. Ofc not all 35 ele (coz, that’d be boring), but a mix of lvl 35+s of eles, thieves, engineers, necros, basically any non-tank or non-heavy armor. I have a lvl 16 ele and a lvl 38 guardian in the works. I reckon it’s still highly doable. Ele’s ice bow tears through the burrows.

Oh and I know of two people who, according to them, duo’d CM explo. I was dubious at first, but seeing as how we did it as a 4man team made me realize it indeed is possible, just probably horrendously slower than average.

One thing casual players might not understand is, before we (and I’m talking about the part of people who say dungeons are doable/easy/ok/fine as it is), or rather I, died dozens probably hundreds of deaths before I got to the level I am now. It took me around 5 runs of ac explo to clearly see LT’s pull animation, and probably another 10 runs to “master” it, and even then, sometimes I don’t see it and die as well or don’t dodge it in time. I had to experience multiple graveyard runs in ac path 3 to know how best to beat the burrows and even now, I still don’t know the best approach (coz you have to consider party make-up).

One thing I would suggest is to read up dungeon guides online (as I’m sure there are plenty). Knowing the intricacies of the dungeon mechanics really help well, as well as running with a group who knows what they’re doing, as they can guide you what to do, what to expect, etc. Imo, the only time it’s perfectly reasonable to just go with it w/o knowing what to do is in story mode, where mobs/bosses are a bit more forgiving (imo).

Average player here.

I play for about 8-10 hours a week and I have a lvl 66 warrior. When I was lvl 40 I ran my first dungeon: CM story mode with 4 random people: 1 war, 1 guard, 1 engi, 1 ele, 1 ranger. 2 of them had run the dungeon before.

Despite having decent communication between us, gathering a well rounded party, traiting for group buffs, and having mmo experience; we all got completely kitten by this lowbie dungeon. Our first wipe occurred when the first boss (the big robot) one-shotted me and the guardian when we were at full hp. So we respawned, finished him, and then promptly wiped again in the next room when 10 elites rushed us. Then we wiped in the basement when another 10 elites rushed us. Then we wiped… etc.

Eventually we did finish the dungeon, and by the end we wiped less often, but this was certainly an unfun experience. I haven’t run a dungeon since. (It also didn’t help that at the time CM was bugged and we couldn’t complete the final objective.)

I want to emphasise that this is the second dungeon – the equivalent of Scarlet Monestary in WoW. It is way, way, way too hard in comparison, and GW2 is supposedly aimed at a more casual crowd than WoW.

So you guys can post “L2Play noob” all you want, in however elegant a way you want to phrase it, but this dungeon experience is simply unfun to casuals.

This is my only reply to this topic. It covers the overpower you mentioned there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/To-all-the-heroes-and-Arena-Net-team-URGENT/first#post645247

The devs stated earlier on that dungeons in explorable mode were going to be the hardest content in the game, challenging “most” groups. It was built around the idea that people at 80 are going to be doing these dungeons. That doesn’t mean you can’t do them before that, it just means that it’s that much harder.

These dungeons are far from hard after you learn the mechanics after 1-2 runs. There are very few fights (such as Subject Alpha) which really challenge you the entire fight.

Casual does not equal BAD. I know plenty of casual gamers who are good at their classes and get through dungeons fine.

You guys dont even remember back in WoW when heroics first came out. People wiped over….and over….and over again. They weren’t easy mode like they were in Lich King. And you know what? It was fun, because it was a challenge. People are so whiny these days they want to go in on their first try and faceroll everything.

Ugh.

“Angry Loner” is a perfect example. You go in, you get wiped and then you give up. You dont go back in, try something different, and learn the dungeon. You just give up, come to the forums and say “it’s toooooooooooo hard” nerf it!

good to quote random sentences from devs..

They stated earlier…….but then after tests….

They noticed dungeon are a mess and they are working on them to be make them fun… (already did lot of changes afaik)

Some of them are obviously rushed…and they noticed….

They are doing a good job on this game, but do not pretend this game is flawless hiding behing L"P because you are only damaging the community for some selfish reasons……

Again this told by a full geared player that can play dungeons often without dying…

@kuthos…do you know why i did gave up at first? cbecause my light low hp class got one shot by most random elites….even ranged making dungeons impossible for me….
And trust me NO PLAYER could do better than that in same situation…..

Being oneshot by ranged mobs means you cannot do anything….

You can see for yourself so many design flaws in dungeons you shouldn t even discuss..

lets look at CoF, you see a boss with regen crystals, you plan a strategy to get some members on crystals, the boss regen too fast….

You focus the whole group on the boss…… it dies fast :|

CM boss with a bbreath effect hits you almost behind him…..(oneshotting anyone not exo geared and i have a gaming connection+a top PC).

LT oneshot you unless you evade flawlessly his attack, that is quite doable UNLESS you are facing his minions……

But again remember that its the FIRST dungeon….

CM story robot -.- lol at oneshottng warrior…..try an ele….and you cannot evade so much.

It can be said that ANY dungeon with a planned team of given professsions and specs becomes doable even at lower level…

But doing so the chance to being able to form a group at lvl <80 becomes impossible…..saving the same excuse used by most:

ALTs full gold geared etc etc etc..

The point is: i think anet is doing a good job and they are noticing dungeon issues already…(and they fixed some already)
But plz stop this LTP nonsense, that imho just hurts the community only to boost your ego or something like that…….

LordByron.8369:

good to quote random sentences from devs..

They stated earlier…….but then after tests….

They noticed dungeon are a mess and they are working on them to be make them fun… (already did lot of changes afaik)

Some of them are obviously rushed…and they noticed….

They are doing a good job on this game, but do not pretend this game is flawless hiding behing L"P because you are only damaging the community for some selfish reasons……

Again this told by a full geared player that can play dungeons often without dying…

@kuthos…do you know why i did gave up at first? cbecause my light low hp class got one shot by most random elites….even ranged making dungeons impossible for me….
And trust me NO PLAYER could do better than that in same situation…..

Being oneshot by ranged mobs means you cannot do anything….

You can see for yourself so many design flaws in dungeons you shouldn t even discuss..

lets look at CoF, you see a boss with regen crystals, you plan a strategy to get some members on crystals, the boss regen too fast….

You focus the whole group on the boss…… it dies fast :|

CM boss with a bbreath effect hits you almost behind him…..(oneshotting anyone not exo geared and i have a gaming connection+a top PC).

LT oneshot you unless you evade flawlessly his attack, that is quite doable UNLESS you are facing his minions……

But again remember that its the FIRST dungeon….

CM story robot -.- lol at oneshottng warrior…..try an ele….and you cannot evade so much.

It can be said that ANY dungeon with a planned team of given professsions and specs becomes doable even at lower level…

But doing so the chance to being able to form a group at lvl <80 becomes impossible…..saving the same excuse used by most:

ALTs full gold geared etc etc etc..

The point is: i think anet is doing a good job and they are noticing dungeon issues already…(and they fixed some already)
But plz stop this LTP nonsense, that imho just hurts the community only to boost your ego or something like that…….

This again?

You know what happened the first time I went into AC? I got one shot. By traps. By Lt. Kohler, whatever. But I didn’t come on the forums and whine about it. I stopped going into dungeons with my 12k hitpoints. I took time to work on my gear and get myself up to about 16k. After I had enough defense to survive most hits I started learning the dungeons and they became easy. This is before I had full exotics as well.

AC EXPLORABLE doesn’t mean first dungeon. AC story mode does. Just because you’re down leveled further does not mean it’s suppose to be the “easy” one, and yet…ironically enough it is. Which is why I find it even more strange you’re complaining about AC of all dungeons.

Lt. Kohler is an example of a great boss mechanic, he has a clear sign of when he’s going to pull you in. If you don’t avoid it, you get punished. Sure it takes you a couple tries to learn it, but that’s a good thing. It’s a little harder with the adds, but hardly impossible.

I will say again, you people whining on the forums about the easiest dungeon are the type of players who walk into the dungeon, get owned, and then cry foul. Take the time to learn a build, learn your class, and stop expecting everything to be given to you for no effort. It’s suppose to be the HARDEST content in the game. Try putting a little effort into. Sheeesh.

I’m an elementalist btw, which is one of the squishiest characters in the game, AND I do dungeons as double dagger which puts you in melee range most of the time.

Kuthos.9623:

This again?

You know what happened the first time I went into AC? I got one shot. By traps. By Lt. Kohler, whatever. But I didn’t come on the forums and whine about it. I stopped going into dungeons with my 12k hitpoints. I took time to work on my gear and get myself up to about 16k.

YOU clearly didn t even read a word on this thread……yet posting here L"P you exactly prove the superficiality of some players behavior….

2 things here
16.000 HP in ac with an ele? great tell us your secret, you probably have 32.000 HP in lvl 80 areas XD

Also are you telling us that you must be a lvl 80 geared player to face a lvl 40 dungeon?
EXACTLY what i said …..

AC EXPLORABLE doesn’t mean first dungeon. AC story mode does.

pre patch (dunno if something changed) story was even harder for DD ele…..being oneshot by rangers didn t give you much room for “skill”. (obviously a norrmal lvl 35…. i know that i can tank and burn whole rooms at 80)

Lt. Kohler is an example of a great boss mechanic, he has a clear sign of when he’s going to pull you in. If you don’t avoid it, you get punished.

Another proof you didn t read a word…..
Its easy if you are fighting LT ALONE …….
That suggests also you use one of those skillfull tactics (aka AI abuse)

I will say again, you people whining on the forums about the easiest dungeon are the type of players who walk into the dungeon, get owned, and then cry foul.

No you are just one short sighted player….that cannot even understand AC is more difficult than HOTW and some CoF paths….but also TA……just to tell some….

I’m an elementalist btw, which is one of the squishiest characters in the game, AND I do dungeons as double dagger which puts you in melee range most of the time.

and again if you did read a single sentence you would have understood i use an ele DD too and that i can TANK at lvl 80…

In my opinion (just my oppinion) most dungeons are fine, except some paths that, if they’re bugged, they’re overpowered a bit, and now let me explain:

-Some mobs got too much damage, at the same time they have tons, and tons, and tons of life (example: Asura grenadiers) and they have… Yeah, they have 5 AoE’s! They should balance a bit this: If a mob hits tons of damage should be fragile, if he resists he shouldn’t be quite destructive, if he has many AoE’s, average life, average damage. Just my opinion

-Silver mobs are causing me more problems than bosses. Yup, I think they should do more creative bosses, less “I throw AoE, and you’re dead” and more “I can kill you, if I hit you… HEY, THAT’S MY LIFE BAR, BERSERKEEEER!”, I mean, they should be more like as the Giganticus Lupicus (Who, in my oppinion should be nerfed a bit on his 2nd phase :p), with different kind of combat where players must improvise their own strategies

-Dungeons… Are not a enter-to-kill, nope. I think dungeons should be a challenge, but on challenges includes the intelligence: I really like a dungeons with unseen an inesperated traps, and even better, with puzzles: Jumping puzzles / Intelligence puzzles / Question puzzles.

-The reward on some dungeons is unbalanced. For example, I can do 3 paths of AC and get 1,5 g without any problems on one and half hour, or do the 3 paths of CoF on less of 1 hour, but if I do sylvari’s dungeon (I don’t know english traslation, I’m spanish, sorry xD) for one path I’m there 1 hour and the reward is the same as one path of those two easy dungeons. I don’t mind if I’m doing a dungeon 5-6-7-8 hours if my reward is great, better or just benefits me on any way: More tokens, better Items for selling, more money…

But well, that’s just my oppinion

I think most of players complaining about the dungeons didn’t understand one thing about them: they’re not meant for AVERAGE player, they’re ENDGAME content.
And some of them are actually too easy as endgame content.

About the Elementalist: if you have less than 15k of health you’re asking to be oneshotted by most mobs. If you convert toughness points into equivalent health point point you can find that until ~15k-16k of health you need vitality unless you have an high healing power with permanent regen (signet of restoration and water trait).
About an elementalist complaining about Kholer: keep looking at him, Skill 3 of Earth Staff and learn to dodge when it is on cooldown…. with it you need less than half the dodges needed by other classes, how can anyone complain about it?? If you have the teleport utility you can also teleport away before being shotted by his attacks when he catches you (unless you’re full berserk)

Exactly the opposite…AS level 80 full exotic player finally finding dunegons doable…
I care to say

LVL 30-LVL40_LVL50 dungeons ARE NOT endgame content….

Despite some of you that already reached max lvl would like so…

That is just eghoistic and hurts the game……reaons are easy…
The game needs variety even for new players, and if you need to show them a dungeon nowaday, its just a pain…..

And if new players arerelegated to their empty pve areas…they grew bored andquit the game….and if they quit the game, the game dies even for US lvl 80 geared players…

Is that so difficult to understand?

P.S. again on Kohler ….stop giving advices if you get rid of his minions with exploits….thank you….

Just did AC explorable on my thief.

My thief is level 37 (started at 35) and is using random level 35 fine/masterwork gear.

I was with two level 80s, a level 64, and a level 43.

We did path 1 and 2, I would have done 3 but I wanted to get back to WvW.

We did not use voice chat or anything like that, it was just a random group of people.

I think you answered yourself already. Explorable Mode is meant for those what you call “elite”. Also most of dungeons are easily doable if you have party that knows what they are doing and have decent support skills instead of going all dps.

For example i have ac all path with group of players all under 60 lvl. We changed our traits and utility skills to suit each other. Elementalist were willing to give up one utility skill for conjure frost bow. I as necro changed to well speced and kept popping aoe blindness, guardian went to more support that provied protection.

Also it helps to use combos. aoe condition removal from light is very powerfull in ac

I think the general gist is that dungeons are not that hard, but you (and the party) have to be willing to switch around a few things to make it work and listen/execute if someone is saying what to do (just so that everyone is minimally on the same page). Usually if I quit a group, it’s because they’re not even willing to cooperate when cooperation is really critical to completing the encounter (like the chains in AC or the barrels in CM).

There always seems to be a dichotomy in MMO’s between the “too hard” and “too easy” crowds. GW1 solved this by introducing Hard Mode, and then taking player-used builds and giving them to mobs. This provided options for both crews.

The catch in a hard mode is that a lot of the “too easy” crowd won’t be happy to do them without “better” rewards for doing them. This flies in the face of GW2’s reward egalitarianism. The only requirement for the rewards that exist are actually having to do the content.

We don’t yet know what the ANet Dungeon design team is going to do about dungeon rewards, other than that they are “looking at them.” I very much doubt they would increase token amounts by much if at all in hard modes, and the game as a whole seems designed around the idea that the chances to get something worthwhile from a mob drop or chest are pretty small.

If a “hard mode” existed without substantially better rewards, would it be utilized by the “too easy” folks? You tell me. If an “easier mode” existed with lowered rewards for the “too hard” folks, would it be utilized, or would it be kittened by the speed runners?

I’d hate to be a dungeon designer in MMO’s, I really would.

You could have a “Hard Mode” that has more likely chances for rares, lodestones, boosters, orichalcum ingots, and a whole bunch of other possible stuff to drop without creating a treadmill progression system. This opens up the possibility of farming the open world for your legendary and whatnot or farming the “hard mode” for the same ends… One will be faster than the other (once mastered) because one will be a higher risk than the other.

Level 80s with Level 80 equip (any quality) will roll through any of the dungeons as long as one person knows what they’re doing and takes the lead. Each dungeon has a path that a pickup group can manage regardless of skill. Teamwork is OP.

LordByron.8369:

Kuthos.9623:

This again?

You know what happened the first time I went into AC? I got one shot. By traps. By Lt. Kohler, whatever. But I didn’t come on the forums and whine about it. I stopped going into dungeons with my 12k hitpoints. I took time to work on my gear and get myself up to about 16k.

YOU clearly didn t even read a word on this thread……yet posting here L"P you exactly prove the superficiality of some players behavior….

2 things here
16.000 HP in ac with an ele? great tell us your secret, you probably have 32.000 HP in lvl 80 areas XD

Also are you telling us that you must be a lvl 80 geared player to face a lvl 40 dungeon?
EXACTLY what i said …..

AC EXPLORABLE doesn’t mean first dungeon. AC story mode does.

pre patch (dunno if something changed) story was even harder for DD ele…..being oneshot by rangers didn t give you much room for “skill”. (obviously a norrmal lvl 35…. i know that i can tank and burn whole rooms at 80)

Lt. Kohler is an example of a great boss mechanic, he has a clear sign of when he’s going to pull you in. If you don’t avoid it, you get punished.

Another proof you didn t read a word…..
Its easy if you are fighting LT ALONE …….
That suggests also you use one of those skillfull tactics (aka AI abuse)

I will say again, you people whining on the forums about the easiest dungeon are the type of players who walk into the dungeon, get owned, and then cry foul.

No you are just one short sighted player….that cannot even understand AC is more difficult than HOTW and some CoF paths….but also TA……just to tell some….

I’m an elementalist btw, which is one of the squishiest characters in the game, AND I do dungeons as double dagger which puts you in melee range most of the time.

and again if you did read a single sentence you would have understood i use an ele DD too and that i can TANK at lvl 80…

16k as a level 80. I dont remember what hp that translates into as a level 35. Aka it means build some hit points, stop going full glass cannon when you’re learning dungeons if you don’t want to get one shot constantly.

I never said you had to be level 80 to do AC explorable mode. I’ve done it on a level 35 alt with green armor. Try again.

The point of the Lt. Kohler fight is to kill the adds quickly. They don’t have that much hit points so you burn them down and then he’s alone. Are you really ignoring the adds and fighting him the entire time with two adds up? If so, no wonder you fail. And no, I dont use the cheesy method to pull him solo. We fight him up in the room with the adds.

More proof that you’re just whining and refuse to adapt to a dungeon that really isn’t that hard. You’re whining about AC of all dungeons. lol

I highly doubt they will nerf dungeons or the mobs in them (possibly Lupicus at some point, he’s silly) but I can’t see it happening to the others. Here’s why:

-It was stated that the story modes are do-able with randoms and won’t require much co-ordination to complete, and the explorable modes would require co-ordination, good teamwork, and they would be hard. The difficulty is even higher when you go in your first few times, don’t know the mechanics of any fight, don’t work together, etc.

-The “average” player can do a lot more than you’re giving credit for. They made the dungeons hard on purpose, so that you can’t just blow through it, no problem, with no one having the slightest clue about anything in the dungeon. If it was like that, dungeon gear wouldn’t mean anything.

-I mention the dungeon gear right above this. This gear is meant to be special, after all, the PvE in this is the grind for cosmetics. It’s to look cool. If absolutely every player could run around in full Orrian gear from Arah, there would be absolutely no point to doing it anymore, because you aren’t unique. Everyone has the gear, no one would have that special, cool look over anyone else.

Things others are saying are true. You DO need to practice to get good at them. Look at your spec, see what you need, adapt to the dungeon. You mentioned before that switching trait specs is too expensive. It’s 3s per at level 80, and hell, just mining orichalcum can make you 1.5g in half an hour.

Maybe once you get AC/CM down, and get good at them, you’ll enjoy doing them. Maybe you won’t. The thing is though, they don’t need to be nerfed. You just can’t give up if you’re having a hard time. Trust me, the first time I ran AC I got steamrolled. The same goes for CM. If you’re having issues with pugs, join a guild. There is a lot of great ones out there that run dungeons, and even if you grab four other guildies who haven’t done it before, work through it. Ask for suggestions from players experienced in that dungeon. TRY UNTIL YOU SUCCEED. Don’t attempt it only a few times, give up and then say that it needs to be nerfed because it’s “too hard”. Hell, PM me in game if you need to and I’ll help out.

TL;DR: Dungeons require work. Don’t just give up and then say its too hard and requires a nerf because people can’t do it. You aren’t giving yourself/other average players enough credit.

some of them are more difficult then others but thats why you have other paths

Kman.7358:

I highly doubt they will nerf dungeons or the mobs in them (possibly Lupicus at some point, he’s silly)

I don’t see them nerf Lupi, he’s the only tough boss in the hardest dungeon we have, nerfing him would be a terrible mistake. It also would contradict their actions so far, since they pretty much locked him into his room so you can’t do him the “easy way” (I still think of it as the hard way since it takes more time and is linked to horrible repair costs) and pull him to the northern waypoint.

As a side note: I think the fixed the “invisible poison bolt bug” in the latest patch. We did path 1, 2 and 3 today and neither I nor one of my teammates got hit bit something that wasn’t there. Either we are just a bunch of lucky kittens or they really fixed it.

nachtnebel.9168:

Kman.7358:

I highly doubt they will nerf dungeons or the mobs in them (possibly Lupicus at some point, he’s silly)

I don’t see them nerf Lupi, he’s the only tough boss in the hardest dungeon we have, nerfing him would be a terrible mistake. It also would contradict their actions so far, since they pretty much locked him into his room so you can’t do him the “easy way” (I still think of it as the hard way since it takes more time and is linked to horrible repair costs) and pull him to the northern waypoint.

As a side note: I think the fixed the “invisible poison bolt bug” in the latest patch. We did path 1, 2 and 3 today and neither I nor one of my teammates got hit bit something that wasn’t there. Either we are just a bunch of lucky kittens or they really fixed it.

Good point. I forgot that they already locked him into that room to make him harder. I still haven’t managed to do him, even running with my guildies that I normally run with. But I’ll be kitten if we don’t keep trying him. (We try often. We get closer each and every time. ONE DAY LUPICUS. ONE DAY.)

I might be considered as an “elite player”, though I’m not sure exactly what that entails. I don’t think the difficulty of dungeons should be decreased, but if you want advice on how to complete most dungeons smoothly with nothing more than a team that listens, feel free to message me in game at “Not David”. I am friendly and helpful, and will be glad to help “average players” get a start on tackling those seemingly impossible dungeons. I remember when I started and AC and CM seemed ridiculous. Now I can 2man some AC paths in less than 20 minutes. So I think the dungeons are fine where they are, it just takes getting used to.

Are you kidding me… The dungeons are already Fisher Price ages 3-5 mode. If it was any easier you would just zone in, loot a chest, and then leave.

Dungeons are not too hard at all. Sure, its not like running around and defeathering moas, but thats the best part! I beat just about every dungeon I tried, with pick up groups every single time.

The only one that I did not complete once, was the seraph path in Caudacous Manor. And that was because we had a Russian player who did not understand the barrel run. We did it at least 15—20 times, just having fun. Everytime he would run it to the gate, or throw the barrel. We told him, “you do not throw the barrel, you put it in the circle by using the swap weapon key” he responded " THROW BARREL?". It was pretty funny. We did not complete the level and he felt bad saying he would “never finish it is to hard”. We just laughed and told him he would one day.

If you cannot beat it the first try, there is always another time. Won’t it feel good the first time you finally beat one of the dungeons?

Im really hoping that the new dungeon is insane difficult. I like challenges, not completing dungeon just because I showed up.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

Yes I know dungeons should be a “challenge” but it should be a challenge to the AVERAGE player not just the “elite” dungeon group.

Dungeons, as well as the personal story, are more challenging than the regular event zergfest and the heart quests. They are an opportunity to improve your playing skillks, as they force you to do it by killing you if you don’t.

I don’t think that’s bad. If you could easily complete any dungeon in rare equipment, not caring about encounter mechanics, what fun would it be when you actually got to know what each boss does, or when you got better equipment?

And in the meanwhile other people like me and my guild are asking for HardMode in instances..

Angry Loner.6571:

I want to emphasise that this is the second dungeon – the equivalent of Scarlet Monestary in WoW. It is way, way, way too hard in comparison, and GW2 is supposedly aimed at a more casual crowd than WoW.

Should I remind you that people play wow with addons that tell you about the ecounter’s mechanics and let you know what’s going to happen before it does?

People also read guides, telling you how to tackle this or that encounter.

People don’t do that in gw2. Instead, they go and try to kill a boss with…4, 5 abilities? Ok, you are going to kiss the ground till you find out what each ability does…. then its relatively easy!!!!

By the way, some low level dungeons in wow were a nightmare at launch…. right now they are broken because of redesign of class progression, heirloom gear, and and basically people running them for the nth time.

Drake Brimstone.3706:

Yes I know dungeons should be a “challenge” but it should be a challenge to the AVERAGE player not just the “elite” dungeon group.

i’m an AVERAGE player for a few weeks and now,well…,let’s just say dungeons becoming more easier along the way once you know how to tackle it…my tips:

1. find your best playstyle according to what dungeons you run atm,i’m a warrior glass cannon in AC but more comfortable re-investing my points in toughness in Arah.it’s not a must,but i feel safer..unless of course i run the dungeons with my guidmates which i trusted so much,i can go full damage on every dungeons i run.

2. like the above,if you can,find guildmates or even friends along the way…make connections,play it with good coordination using voip software or even by just typing on planning the raid

3. share your knowledge about what you know about dungeons and don’t be afraid to get someone mad at you because they think you’re mister know it all

4. there are more ways and tactics to tackle certain dungeon..and even the most elites do got killed in the process

don’t give up and i hope you had a great game..cheers

There’s definitely a dividing line between too easy and too hard. Personally I find that its not the instance as a whole that’s the issue its usually segments of the dungeon. And I understand the need to make things challenging, I really do it keeps people playing and it keeps us all from falling asleep. But for the most part I feel that instances are too difficult as they stand. Difficulty for the sake of difficulty is a poor design. Difficulty that scales upward from one end of the spectrum to the other, allowing players to rise to a challenge and experience a feeling of improvement and success is a great idea. Here’s where instances are failing us, and we all can agree, in most dungeons the hardest boss is usually one of the first ones. Its typically a bad idea to start off a dungeon by grinding players into a pulp and then finish it off by having a tank n spank. Best example : Kohlar v.s. Ghosteatter. Kohlar is for some players the hardest boss in the instance. Some players I’ve run with cannot see the graphical change when he prepares his deadly move and they end up dead time and time again, where as ghosteatter for the most part is a tank n spank. This isn’t a good system for building a dungeon theme off of. Even on the arguably easiest path of AC, the difficulty is a roller coaster, and that’s not fun, its asinine and annoying even when your farming it daily. Its also discouraging when trash mobs in instances are more deadly then the bosses… whut? yeah does not compute. Nobody likes trash, nobody enjoys trash mobs, so why is upping the difficulty of trash mobs such a priority these days? I understand the desire to have players spend hours in a dungeon only to get a tiny reward so that they have to keep going back over and over spending countless hours framing to maintain the subscription fees, oh wait! we don’t have those! so what’s with that? End Game is basically WvW anyway so whats the deal with making instances drag out forever in a day and suck the fun out of your night.

I agree with the OP, most dungeons are stupidly hard, and give very minimal rewards, sure tokens are nice if you like the ugly dungeon armors, but any other rewards are minimal at best, repair costs and frustration does not equal fun.

I try as best as i can in these things for good gear but at this time the reward does not equal the risks involved.

And CoE on all paths is a nightmare, yes it can be done but its far from fun to do…actually that fits all dungeons overpowered hard does not equal a fun experience..

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/2-man-AC-exp-faster-than-5-man-pugs-with-video/first#post666482