Easy mode raids
The problem is that what you describe in no way guarantees success. Putting that effort and looking around for options does not mean it’s going to bring results. Most people will not make it.
See answers of posters above.
Plus, if you are tenacious one of your training runs will succeed with a bigger probability in the past because those days you have exp players also joining in with classes they haven’t mastered yet. There will be some struggles but it’s more often now that bosses go down in those runs.
Also people need to be smart:
- Low LI requirement for a boss you have trained a lot/for a good amount? —> Whisper the commander and tell him that you know your stuff. It will be a “Yes” or a “No”, there’s no harm in asking
- Collect kp and ping them in groups if you cannot meet the LI requirement. It’s very common that commanders will give you a chance and say “they keep an eye on you”. Some minutes/tries later with 0 fail from you he will have forgotten it.
- Ask around in the aerodrome/lfg for easy bosses like Cairn, Mursaat Overseer, Escort (and maybe more if you consider them to be easy for you). There are a lot of groups taking players with them and/or carrying them because they are in the mood to do so. You can get some LI + kill proofs which will help for further attempts even if you haven’t been a big help and dead on the ground for 90% of the time.
- to be continued…
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
I’m beginning to think the reason why raids are so difficult to find despite pro-activeness is because the playerbase has indeed shrunk. At any point in time, there seems to be only 1 at most 2 hot meta on lfg (before it starts obviously).
@Vinceman I’m not doubting about the woman with 100+Li though I do wonder what is the context with what me and astralporing said. Like, what’s really the context lol. Ok so she has over 100 Li and so doesn’t need to spend alot of time getting people to raid with her. Ye that’s what astral and I have been saying. I can talk and post alot too. I can really talk about the wonderful time I had in dreamland without relations to the topic etc.
People who refute this are probably those who have a fixed static group and love the elitism this gives them. How legendary will raids be if any tom kitten and Harry can jump into them as and when they want to practise or run. Like why should they?
gaem not made for mi
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(edited by Roxanne.6140)
@Vinceman I’m not doubting about the woman with 100+Li though I do wonder what is the context with what me and astralporing said. Like, what’s really the context lol. Like ok, she has over 100 Li and so doesn’t need to spend alot of time getting people to raid with her. Ye that’s what astral and I have been saying. I can talk and post alot too. I can really talk about the wonderful time I had in dreamland within relations to the topic etc.
The context is: Her twink has 0 LI, she has never played druid before, she has completely stepped into training runs and succeeded without any kp at all because she wanted to. So, she got 0 help from us or didn’t use anything that could bring her into a better position than a new player. Was it easy all the way to get those 5 LI? No, of course not although she is experienced with all bosses.
And that’s the point, you have to play your way up. Experienced players had to spend hours/days/weeks to get kills done and to evolve tactics. Why should other players just join and get the same without any effort? That would be the same with horrible pugs in fractals, they are getting carried every day but when they meet a meta group or ppl that are not willing to take them the whining is huge. Raids don’t work like this at all, average raiders need 7-9 competent teammates or the fight will fail.
And you have my sorry, if you really try to argue here why raids are so hard to complete successfully. I can’t take this seriously any longer after the last months where absolute new and sometimes horrid players got their first LI within my groups. Maybe focus more on the game than spending time on the forums complaining.
I’m beginning to think the reason why raids are so difficult to find despite pro-activeness is because the playerbase has indeed shrunk. At any point in time, there seems to be only 1 at most 2 hot meta on lfg (before it starts obviously).
The raid lfg is one of the most active if not the most active lfg of all. My last look was on 0:30 (EU server) and there were 15+ offers. That’s amazing compared to other stuff.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
I guess it’s ocx/SEA time that is completely dead this is an NA game afterall
gaem not made for mi
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I guess it’s ocx/SEA time that is completely dead this is an NA game afterall
ocx/sea is a dead time for pretty much every mode not named WvW and even then they primarily karma train.
Perhaps instead of complaining however, you could join an OCX/SEA specific raiding guild as im sure more than one exist. If not, again nothing is stopping you from starting your own.
tiem to fly to NA to play GW2. watch out NA people i have come to invade you,
gaem not made for mi
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The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.
By my experience quite a lot accept it if there is something else to do.
Which was the problem I tried to describe. Raids are not too difficult: less difficult content is missing. If players would be busy they wouldn’t care (or care less) about raids.
I question just how big a demographic it is which plays in limited amounts, disdains WvW, PvP and open world, preferring only new small-group instanced content. It seems like most of those requesting easy mode raids are presenting lore and/or the rewards as their motivating factor.
Y, GW2 mostly addresses open world players and since HoT also raidplayers. GW2 has an established playerbase, more casual groups have probably mostly left long ago.
It’s interesting to see the very different playerbase of GW2 compared to GW1 which had many small “family and friends” guilds.
By my experience quite a lot accept it if there is something else to do.
Which was the problem I tried to describe. Raids are not too difficult: less difficult content is missing. If players would be busy they wouldn’t care (or care less) about raids.
And again, you’re confusing “content I haven’t done yet” with “the only content in the game”. And your comparison to “most other games” which aren’t MMOs is completely absurd. All MMOs are huge, they offer tons of content and rely on players spending hundreds, even thousands of hours in the game. That’s because they are also more expensive to produce and maintain. Primarily because of the huge amount of content they offer. You seem to want constant updates featuring new content which players like you can enjoy for a weekend and move on. Ain’t gonna happen. With this time of experiencing the content, the developer can never make the money they spend on creating it.
And again, you’re confusing “content I haven’t done yet” with “the only content in the game”.
No. Imho were there less complaints about raids after the LS started.
If your focus is different and you are more interested in open world content GW2 has a lot to offer. So it really depends what kind of content you are interested in.
And your comparison to “most other games” which aren’t MMOs is completely absurd.
I was refering to “Have facebook games really watered down gaming that much ?” and “1 hour a day”.
Most games require relativly little time, not only facebook games. Gaming is “watered down” since pong.
With this time of experiencing the content, the developer can never make the money they spend on creating it.
As I said: I’m confident they could. It’s a decision to release bigger amounts of content or not. You can set up a game so it is easy to add lots of content or you can set it up to make it difficult. In GW1 it took Anet a year to release 18 new dungeons (+lots of other content at same time). That’s more content than a casual player can play through in the same time.
And even casuals (as my guild) do repeat content. But not hundreds of times. If there are 18 dungeons and you repeat everyone once thats content for 36 weeks. When you are done with it you can’t remember the first dungeon because of the big variety. If you repeat a single dungeon each week you burn it out way quicker.
Even GW2: they developed the whole game in….5 years? and added lots of fractals in the first year. So 8 dungeons and 14 fractals in 6 years? In the 4 years after 2013 we got two 2 fractals. I think it is a huge disadvantage to compare early game development (engine, whatever) to an existing game. But if we do and Anet would have kept up the release speed we would now have 5 new dungeons and 9 new fractals. In theory content development in “late game development” should be much faster than in early game development.
(edited by Jockum.1385)
Agree with those saying it should never be about guaranteeing success.
It is about degrees and accessibility. As they are now, raids are considerably less accessible to players who enjoy specific professions, playstyles, etc.
Yes, there should always be a level that provides the greatest possible challenge. At the same time, however, there needs to be a better way for the less intense players to experience or enjoy the content – one that doesnt infringe on that difficult experience. I really dont see any other way to accomplish that other than tiers.
The problem is that what you describe in no way guarantees success. Putting that effort and looking around for options does not mean it’s going to bring results. Most people will not make it.
I don’t think guaranteed success is something any game needs.
What i meant is that two people doing exactly the same things, and putting exactly the same amount of effort can have wildly different results depending on their amount of luck and the people they happen to know. Vinceman’s opinion seems based only on observing the results of the most succesful of that group.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I don’t think that those two people I mentioned are the most successful ones.
It’s really not hard to achieve several raid kills nowadays. With the current balance situation the leeway is very big enough that average groups (and I mean average casual static raid groups) are able to take 2-3 new players with them on 5 to maybe 8 bosses.
Hell, we can pick up 3 beginners at VG and they can all die but we still get it down and we are far from being a speed run or highly skilled group. Last week we took a new one to Deimos, this week to Xera.
Of course those spots are not the important roles but it’s enough for beginners to get their first successful impressions after having done several trainings.
Raiders have become better and additionally they realized that many bosses are pretty easy to kill with a proper setting resulting in way more low LI requirement lfgs than half a year ago.
You can have bad luck, I agree, but it’s nearly impossible to not have success if you really want to get into raiding.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
The problem is that what you describe in no way guarantees success. Putting that effort and looking around for options does not mean it’s going to bring results. Most people will not make it.
I don’t think guaranteed success is something any game needs.
What i meant is that two people doing exactly the same things, and putting exactly the same amount of effort can have wildly different results depending on their amount of luck and the people they happen to know. Vinceman’s opinion seems based only on observing the results of the most succesful of that group.
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
gaem not made for mi
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There’s nothing stopping them from playing the raids though…nor the rest of the game.
The entire point was that a brand new player whose sole focus is raids can do so in around 30 hrs time. If you’re not new, and already have an established character etc…you can drastically reduce that.
Additionally, it’s such a small subset of time that’s actually required to raid that its somehow considered hardcore if you play more than 1hr a day ? Is this real…. like i don’t even at this point. Have facebook games really watered down gaming that much ?
What’s stopping people from playing raids is that those who have not committed to raids don’t have the knowledge or desire to start their own groups. So, they want a drop-in experience like we have in open world. People who have committed the time are unlikely to get that mentality and even if they do they’re not going to support it.
30 hours is not a “small subset of time” if one doesn’t play that much. That’s 30 hours dedicated solely to raid prep (I assume most if not all of that is gearing up). That might take 50 or 100 hours of play (or more) for those who like to do other things as well. Add in not playing for several hours a day and that puts you back in the realm of commitment.
And yes, as soon as developers decided they wanted the money from players from non-MMO demographics, MMO game populations have changed dramatically.
Well, GW2 also supports this choice. The vast majority of the content can be played pretty casually. It just happens to support the other choice, too.
Which is why players with a preference for X should stick to content that offers X. However, that is not what other games (or even schools in some places, mores the pity) teach people to expect.
The problem is not going to go away. The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.
I do agree not all content is for everyone. I disagree about the commitment though. I was succesfully raiding at my alt after 2/3 hours of play. Fractals were alot worse to be honest. I just grabbed a set of rare magi gear with crappy runes and sigils and cleared everything but xera (leyline gliding).
Numerous new guildies learned basic rotations in half an hour and were doing full clears in 3 hours. Two/three clears later most of them are really fun and effective raiders. Now sure we are a group with alot of highly effective raiders with many members that have spend large amounts of time in raids. Yet we also have alot of players that log in two/three times a month but they are also good raiders. I think you need a little skill and a sharp mind.
If you are finding time to level characters, do LW and participate in dungeons than you can also raid effectively in 2017.
There’s nothing stopping them from playing the raids though…nor the rest of the game.
The entire point was that a brand new player whose sole focus is raids can do so in around 30 hrs time. If you’re not new, and already have an established character etc…you can drastically reduce that.
Additionally, it’s such a small subset of time that’s actually required to raid that its somehow considered hardcore if you play more than 1hr a day ? Is this real…. like i don’t even at this point. Have facebook games really watered down gaming that much ?
What’s stopping people from playing raids is that those who have not committed to raids don’t have the knowledge or desire to start their own groups. So, they want a drop-in experience like we have in open world. People who have committed the time are unlikely to get that mentality and even if they do they’re not going to support it.
30 hours is not a “small subset of time” if one doesn’t play that much. That’s 30 hours dedicated solely to raid prep (I assume most if not all of that is gearing up). That might take 50 or 100 hours of play (or more) for those who like to do other things as well. Add in not playing for several hours a day and that puts you back in the realm of commitment.
And yes, as soon as developers decided they wanted the money from players from non-MMO demographics, MMO game populations have changed dramatically.
Well, GW2 also supports this choice. The vast majority of the content can be played pretty casually. It just happens to support the other choice, too.
Which is why players with a preference for X should stick to content that offers X. However, that is not what other games (or even schools in some places, mores the pity) teach people to expect.
The problem is not going to go away. The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.
I do agree not all content is for everyone. I disagree about the commitment though. I was succesfully raiding at my alt after 2/3 hours of play. Fractals were alot worse to be honest. I just grabbed a set of rare magi gear with crappy runes and sigils and cleared everything but xera (leyline gliding).
Numerous new guildies learned basic rotations in half an hour and were doing full clears in 3 hours. Two/three clears later most of them are really fun and effective raiders. Now sure we are a group with alot of highly effective raiders with many members that have spend large amounts of time in raids. Yet we also have alot of players that log in two/three times a month but they are also good raiders. I think you need a little skill and a sharp mind.
If you are finding time to level characters, do LW and participate in dungeons than you can also raid effectively in 2017.
Perhaps I could have been clearer. Doing a raid with little prep in a guild setting is one thing. It’s in trying to PuG that commitment in the form of pre-gearing, and research, is expected — and that’s if a pug group will take someone with no experience.
well I have a solution for the difference in LFG situations between NA and non-NA time if anyone cares to listen. Since there will be fewer players willing to pug raids during non prime-time, difficulty of raids should be sized according to the number of players available. For example, half the number of people needed on green circles in Vale Guardian, halfed hp of all bosses, list goes on. This sizing can happen after the Naryans go to sleep, which means anywhere between 11:59am to 11:59pm EST for example.
gaem not made for mi
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There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
Well, you are trying to be funny, I see, but if you aren’t even able to acquire some reading comprehension no one is willing to help or even able to understand you.
As I wrote, I’m on EU and I don’t know about the situation on NA server, other people have to answer that.
But I can say at EU prime time there are plenty of of lfgs, high LI req groups as well as low ones + trainings.
You don’t find raid groups for beginners outside of prime time? Haha, surprise surprise, you won’t find those either for exp players besides very few special ones. It’s like the situation to look for a good commander in WvW during the night. The GW2 community is not big enough to serve all content to all players over the complete 24 hour cycle a day. This game is not WoW although I’m not sure if you find people for specific stuff every hour there either.
If your game time does not fit with the one of the majority you maybe have to deal with it but it’s not raid specific. Try to find dungeon groups during the night = 0 chance, same goes for HoT metas, even the fractals section is empty although they are played more often.
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
-Snip-
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.
nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
gaem not made for mi
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As I said: I’m confident they could.
Your confidence doesn’t pay their bills. I’m a game developer myself, and I don’t see how this could work. It’s not the technical difficulties about adding content. These are trivial. The problem is content creation is expensive.
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
-Snip-
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
His contexts aren’t a prime time perspective, I live in asia, play in NA servers. Cleared 13/13 weekly before I quit and only log in for raids, nothing else.
I stopped playing just before raids came out. Played other games and joined again about august 2016 to do raids. None of my friends were playing, I had no contacts anymore and was completely solo. Jumped into raids and after 1 month 9/9 clear with some raid achieves (about 4 hours total in a week split into 2 days). Bastion of Penitent came out cleared, leggy armor came out got it after 2nd week – ish. Quit again till expansion.
If you were to ask me if I was dedicated to raids, I’d say no. I was playing a lot more of Overwatch seriously, my attitude in raids were half-baked. To start I got geared, went into dps golem, did rotation, learned at least VG/Gorse/Sab by watching a vid, looked for a raid party (most people here were new) and jumped in. I just winged the rest. There were fails, but not major ones (except for that one time where i did not know the xera shield thing). Eventually I got recruited in a good static group which was really chill (so much banter and such).
If you’ve played mmos for that long then you should know it;s more of a people challenge than a mechanical skill/field awareness challenge. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding the right people with the tools available to you.
One thing everyone should realize is don’t expect to be carried by experienced people. Don’t expect the world to bend according to your preferences. Don’t expect spoon feeding, everyone started with no knowledge of raids and they succeeded. If there’s as many people who claim to want to get in raids but can’t due to experienced groups wanting LI proof, then form a group of new people. Now we have all these resources available to us in text, videos and even a whole website like qtfy, it speeds up the learning curve significantly. Every resource needed to succeed is right there and people just need to pick it up.
tl;dr Everything a new player needs to clear raids is abundantly available, mileage may vary but you can get there.
(edited by Bread.7516)
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
-Snip-
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
His contexts aren’t a prime time perspective, I live in asia, play in NA servers. Cleared 13/13 weekly before I quit and only log in for raids, nothing else.
I stopped playing just before raids came out. Played other games and joined again about august 2016 to do raids. None of my friends were playing, I had no contacts anymore and was completely solo. Jumped into raids and after 1 month 9/9 clear with some raid achieves (about 4 hours total in a week split into 2 days). Bastion of Penitent came out cleared, leggy armor came out got it after 2nd week – ish. Quit again till expansion.
If you’ve played mmos for that long then you should know it;s more of a people challenge than a mechanical skill/field awareness challenge. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding the right people with the tools available to you
yea i bet and you’re online only during NA primetime.
gaem not made for mi
===========
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
-Snip-
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
His contexts aren’t a prime time perspective, I live in asia, play in NA servers. Cleared 13/13 weekly before I quit and only log in for raids, nothing else.
I stopped playing just before raids came out. Played other games and joined again about august 2016 to do raids. None of my friends were playing, I had no contacts anymore and was completely solo. Jumped into raids and after 1 month 9/9 clear with some raid achieves (about 4 hours total in a week split into 2 days). Bastion of Penitent came out cleared, leggy armor came out got it after 2nd week – ish. Quit again till expansion.
If you’ve played mmos for that long then you should know it;s more of a people challenge than a mechanical skill/field awareness challenge. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding the right people with the tools available to you
yea i bet and you’re online only during NA primetime.
lol nope, NA is dead and asleep when I play gw2 which is asia afternoon (gmt+8). I play with a friend in new york at 10pm gmt+8 (10am NA NY) but we dont play gw2, we play pubg. He doesn’t play gw2.
Pro-tip, lots of asians and people in OCE play together in NA servers.
There isn’t a point arguing with him you see. You can see all his posts are only in the context of the dream NA primetime and every other timezone is not prime. Comon I played on NA primetime before on my special days off and know the situation is different.
It’s like comparing someone who met a sugar daddy or sugar mommy depending on your gender and life’s a rollin’ and then doing a yoyo mcswagger to someone who doesn’t have a super daddy or sugar mommy.
-Snip-
Maybe, but only maybe, you have to pass raids due to your geographic or your working situation but that’s not GW2 exclusive then and most likely the same for other games with group content.nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
His contexts aren’t a prime time perspective, I live in asia, play in NA servers. Cleared 13/13 weekly before I quit and only log in for raids, nothing else.
I stopped playing just before raids came out. Played other games and joined again about august 2016 to do raids. None of my friends were playing, I had no contacts anymore and was completely solo. Jumped into raids and after 1 month 9/9 clear with some raid achieves (about 4 hours total in a week split into 2 days). Bastion of Penitent came out cleared, leggy armor came out got it after 2nd week – ish. Quit again till expansion.
If you’ve played mmos for that long then you should know it;s more of a people challenge than a mechanical skill/field awareness challenge. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding the right people with the tools available to you
yea i bet and you’re online only during NA primetime.
-snip-
Pro-tip, lots of asians and people in OCE play together in NA servers.
wow so impressed
gaem not made for mi
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I’m a game developer myself, and I don’t see how this could work.
Care to explain why it did work in GW1 and not in GW2 anymore?
How the same company, just years earlier, smaller and with less money managed to release a single year after the last expansion another expansion with 18 dungeons, 124 quests, story, 15 (?) “world maps” plus small towns/outposts and new skins? After a year of ~ monthly balancing and bugfixing updates + expanding events as doubling the content of wintersday?
I don’t know how game devs are developing maps, but I do know how to CAD. If every geometry needs to be handmade it is a lot of effort. If you only need to “glue together” premade structures it gets easier.
For example see this PS2/gamecube map editor (no need to watch the whole video, beginning shows a bit of the editor, later only gameplay on the created map, skim through it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XJbfZaXtvs
That’s very crude, yes.
But as you can see the editor allows already a relativly nice map design. Everyone could easily put together such a map in a few hours. I played mostly TS2, but I think you were also able to place enemies for a story mode, gave them walking routes or place events which trigger in certain areas.
Timesplitters had afaik some different “grafic sets” as “bunker-style” “horror” etc.
A MMO could also have “grafic sets” as flamelegion, asura, undead. Developers could create a single new boss and implement it into such an editor. It can grow step by step, you can always add new enemies, bosses, objects, grafic sets, map structures etc. You don’t have to create a whole dungeon at once, you can create a single map piece. Some kind of modular design. It may not meet Anets quality standards, but I don’t see why it should be impossible.
Ofc setting up such an editor is a lot of work and I doubt its worth it for GW2. For GW3 maybe.
You could then even let players create their own dungeons.
I played a bit DDO some years ago (mostly the tutorial) and most/all quests were in very crude dungeons with very simplistic enemies. I’d guess they were either computer generated or with such an editor. Had…three? difficulties (easy, normal, hard). Flat open maps probably can’t be created with such an editor, but “fps like dungeon maps” should.
(edited by Jockum.1385)
AFAIK GW1 sold expansions. That’s how it can work – you receive lots of new content by paying for it.
nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
Yeah, of course, the majority of all games, especially MMOs, has always players available for every content, only GW2 is a mess. Keep on dreaming. ^^
And even if it were like that, raids are meant to be the most challenging content in the game, defined by Anet. This game mode was developed to not be the target of your so called “Mr. Yoloswagger” + GW2 is a smaller MMO in terms of playerbase and it’s no wonder that you don’t find groups for specific content aside from prime time.
It’s not Anets mistake that you don’t find groups during OCE primetime or your available game time.
I repeat myself, maybe you need to relinquish raids and move on to something different
Btw. regarding your attitude and broken language it’s more than obvious that you are at least 5-10 years younger than me.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.
btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.
Yeah, of course, the majority of all games, especially MMOs, has always players available for every content, only GW2 is a mess. Keep on dreaming. ^^
Regarding your attitude and broken language it’s more than obvious that you are 5-10 years younger than me.
I wouldn’t put a number on attitude and broken language. I seen people ranging from 12 till 80 to be completely childish and probably just as well as mature and well behaved.
I’ve seen people complain they are too old to play to to young to play and vice versa.
No amount of experience is better used than social experience. You can play 1000s of single player games or even Multiplayer ones and still be completely crap at the social interactions that a PuG needs to succeed. I must say, that a huge majority of PUGs I attended to, whether successful or not, were positive and accepting, if you’re honest, open, or silent and retracted at the right times.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I was just expecting a “wise” person, boasting with it, to be down-home and overthinking the whole raid thing with the conclusion: “Maybe raids in GW2 are not for me, I will relinquish.”
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
AFAIK GW1 sold expansions. That’s how it can work – you receive lots of new content by paying for it.
Well, HoT has not delivered 18 new dungeons and 15 open world maps.
How Anet earns money doesn’t matter. Earning 1 million by selling expansions or 1 million by selling stuff in the ingame shop has the same outcome.
Anets team is afaik currently at ~ 400 employees and bigger than ever.
I doubt that all these people are busy counting money. They get paid monthly and are developing games.
It’s not that GW2 is short on money and has to fire employees. 400 people developing a game should result in more content than…well, Idk 200? people at GW1 times.
AFAIK GW1 sold expansions. That’s how it can work – you receive lots of new content by paying for it.
Well, HoT has not delivered 18 new dungeons and 15 open world maps.
How Anet earns money doesn’t matter. Earning 1 million by selling expansions or 1 million by selling stuff in the ingame shop has the same outcome.Anets team is afaik currently at ~ 400 employees and bigger than ever.
I doubt that all these people are busy counting money. They get paid monthly and are developing games.It’s not that GW2 is short on money and has to fire employees. 400 people developing a game should result in more content than…well, Idk 200? people at GW1 times.
Thats assuming the time/resources of developing in each game is equal. What if it would take 10x as much time/resources to develop a piece of content in gw2 versus gw1? Not saying its a valid reason because there are infrastructure tools in place development wise to prevent this, but it is something to consider.
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I was just expecting a “wise” person, boasting with it, to be down-home and overthinking the whole raid thing with the conclusion: “Maybe raids in GW2 are not for me, I will relinquish.”
Just as the raiders did before raids were introduced?
…oh wait.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I was just expecting a “wise” person, boasting with it, to be down-home and overthinking the whole raid thing with the conclusion: “Maybe raids in GW2 are not for me, I will relinquish.”
Just as the raiders did before raids were introduced?
…oh wait.
The difference is before HoT and raids the game was in an awful situation, awful than ever before. Content drought all the way. Many people left because there was no endgame content at all, not even non-challenging.
Raids were and still are a revitalising part of content and have made the game overall better, not worse because it’s an additional option to play – option, not must.
I’d rather relinquish to play certain content than not even having the possibility to play anything and quit the game because it ran out of content and leaving me bored.
The decision to finally bring in challenging content into the game after having none over years (dungeons were dead in terms of challenge long ago and only ran by players like me and many others due to gold farming) was one of the best they’ve ever made. Your daily watch in the raid LFG underlines it, raids are played a lot and one of the most active content in GW2 besides others.
And I think you can’t deny that it’s actually better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than having none. It’s not that raids are preventing non-raiders from getting their own content.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I was just expecting a “wise” person, boasting with it, to be down-home and overthinking the whole raid thing with the conclusion: “Maybe raids in GW2 are not for me, I will relinquish.”
Just as the raiders did before raids were introduced?
…oh wait.The difference is before HoT and raids the game was in an awful situation, awful than ever before. Content drought all the way. Many people left because there was no endgame content at all, not even non-challenging.
Raids were and still are a revitalising part of content and have made the game overall better, not worse because it’s an additional option to play – option, not must.The decision to finally bring in challenging content into the game after having none over years (dungeons were dead in terms of challenge long ago and only ran by players like me and many others due to gold farming) was one of the best they’ve ever made. Your daily watch in the raid LFG underlines it, raids are played a lot and one of the most active content in GW2 besides others.
And I think you can’t deny that it’s actually better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than having none. It’s not that raids is preventing non-raiders from getting their own content.
What AstralPoring is getting at is also what you say:
It’s sometimes better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than not having it.
You can apply that to raids, but also to a easier raid version. Raids are not going to disappear because of an easier version, and that challenge and the rewards for doing so will stay. Same way that storymode dungeons didn’t affect explorable dungeons badly.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
What AstralPoring is getting at is also what you say:
It’s sometimes better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than not having it.
You can apply that to raids, but also to a easier raid version. Raids are not going to disappear because of an easier version, and that challenge and the rewards for doing so will stay. Same way that storymode dungeons didn’t affect explorable dungeons badly.
I’ve never been against an easier raid version under some precise circumstances:
1. No LIs – None!
2. No other raid specific rewards.
3. No magnetite shards.
4. White, blue, greens and let’s say 2 rare items as reward.
5. Developing of raids are not getting delayed by the implementation of such an easy mode. Take developers from the LS and give them a copy of the raid. Of course, one raid developer should be there to help out answering questions and stuff.
But I tell you something. This won’t solve any issues of the little crowd of people complaining because it’s not the content itself, it’s the rewards people are greedy for.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
But I tell you something. This won’t solve any issues of the little crowd of people complaining because it’s not the content itself, it’s the rewards people are greedy for.
This strawman argument fallacy is just beneath you. Come on.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
But I tell you something. This won’t solve any issues of the little crowd of people complaining because it’s not the content itself, it’s the rewards people are greedy for.
This strawman argument fallacy is just beneath you. Come on.
It’s not a strawman, you should have followed the discussion in this forum over different threads in the past 6 months then you would know what I’m talking about.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
But I tell you something. This won’t solve any issues of the little crowd of people complaining because it’s not the content itself, it’s the rewards people are greedy for.
This strawman argument fallacy is just beneath you. Come on.
It’s not a strawman, you should have followed the discussion in this forum over different threads in the past 6 months then you would know what I’m talking about.
I did and it is. No matter how you claim its not. It will not solve the issues with the rewards but it will solve the issues with the story and lore and a glimpse of the experience of fighting these bosses.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
What AstralPoring is getting at is also what you say:
It’s sometimes better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than not having it.
You can apply that to raids, but also to a easier raid version. Raids are not going to disappear because of an easier version, and that challenge and the rewards for doing so will stay. Same way that storymode dungeons didn’t affect explorable dungeons badly.
I’ve never been against an easier raid version under some precise circumstances:
1. No LIs – None!
2. No other raid specific rewards.
3. No magnetite shards.
4. White, blue, greens and let’s say 2 rare items as reward.
5. Developing of raids are not getting delayed by the implementation of such an easy mode. Take developers from the LS and give them a copy of the raid. Of course, one raid developer should be there to help out answering questions and stuff.But I tell you something. This won’t solve any issues of the little crowd of people complaining because it’s not the content itself, it’s the rewards people are greedy for.
Well we can make it easier just put in what you suggest then the rest of the raid rewards go into reward tracks for wvw and spvp no time delayed on raids at all bud.
I did and it is. No matter how you claim its not. It will not solve the issues with the rewards but it will solve the issues with the story and lore and a glimpse of the experience of fighting these bosses.
No, it isn’t.
Lore hunter already have found their ways into the story due to the fact that the relevant parts are literally laying on the ground in every raid instance and videos can be (re-)watched in cleared ones. We went through this a lot. -.-
If people would be honest and compare dungeon evolution or living story instances with raids they would definitely come to the conclusion that the walkthrough of a raid instance barely offers the same. Raid instances are a connection of bosses (and events in some) but not in the least deliver a good story or storytelling.
But as I said, I have nothing against a tuned down version without rewards and without delaying new raid wing releases.
If you want to have the rewards, play raids. You don’t want to put effort into it? It’s ok but then you don’t deserve anything, just relinquish, it doesn’t hurt.
Well we can make it easier just put in what you suggest then the rest of the raid rewards go into reward tracks for wvw and spvp no time delayed on raids at all bud.
Nah, see above.
Additionally, I don’t want people to be able to get raid rewards via PvP & WvW. It’s already a joke with the “Dungeoneer” title that you can own although you’ve never stepped into a real explorable dungeon mode.
Every game mode where you need to put effort into for rewards should have it’s own exclusive rewards and I’m glad Anet agrees here with me and only puts open world PvE stuff into the reward tracks nowadays.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I was just expecting a “wise” person, boasting with it, to be down-home and overthinking the whole raid thing with the conclusion: “Maybe raids in GW2 are not for me, I will relinquish.”
Just as the raiders did before raids were introduced?
…oh wait.The difference is before HoT and raids the game was in an awful situation, awful than ever before. Content drought all the way. Many people left because there was no endgame content at all, not even non-challenging.
Raids were and still are a revitalising part of content and have made the game overall better, not worse because it’s an additional option to play – option, not must.The decision to finally bring in challenging content into the game after having none over years (dungeons were dead in terms of challenge long ago and only ran by players like me and many others due to gold farming) was one of the best they’ve ever made. Your daily watch in the raid LFG underlines it, raids are played a lot and one of the most active content in GW2 besides others.
And I think you can’t deny that it’s actually better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than having none. It’s not that raids is preventing non-raiders from getting their own content.What AstralPoring is getting at is also what you say:
It’s sometimes better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than not having it.
You can apply that to raids, but also to a easier raid version. Raids are not going to disappear because of an easier version, and that challenge and the rewards for doing so will stay. Same way that storymode dungeons didn’t affect explorable dungeons badly.
But this type of content was promised even before the initial release. Not necessarily raids, but content for organised groups. Dungeon explorables also have only one mode and they were intended for that content type.
Closing your eyes before this fact doesn’t make it disappear or an easy mode more realistic.
ArenaNet took until HoT to achieve their promise and now people think they have the right to play all content even if it was never designed for them.
The story told in story mode dungeons is not the same as in the explorables. People argue with story and compare it with story mode dungeons. Your story mode for Forsaken Thicket is LS3 E1-4. You already have it.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
(edited by Miellyn.6847)
The difference is before HoT and raids the game was in an awful situation, awful than ever before. Content drought all the way.
That was when they still couldn’t do expac and everydays’ content at the same time, it had nothing to do with raids. Also, notice, it had nothing to do with what you were talking before. Would be raiders for the most part weren’t dissatisfied with the content being old. They were dissatisfied with the type of content offered. They didn’t ask for new content. They asked for a specific type of content, that didn’t exist in the game before.
Many people left because there was no endgame content at all, not even non-challenging.
many people left because there were no new content, that’s true. According to what you posted before however, those that specifically left because they were dissatisfied with game’s type of content wasn’t for them should have left. Because the game simply wasn’t for them.
If the devs should have done something to retain them then, then it should do something for the people you claim are not wise now.
Raids were and still are a revitalising part of content and have made the game overall better, not worse
That’s highly debatable.
The decision to finally bring in challenging content into the game after having none over years (dungeons were dead in terms of challenge long ago and only ran by players like me and many others due to gold farming) was one of the best they’ve ever made.
Yes, the change in the game’s direction definitely was good. For you, that is. Not for those that liked the old direction.
And I think you can’t deny that it’s actually better to have content that caters to a certain subset of players that asked for it than having none. It’s not that raids are preventing non-raiders from getting their own content.
Why are you against easy-mode then?
But this type of content was promised even before the initial release. Not necessarily raids, but content for organised groups.
Smaller groups. Devs were specifically asked then about 8 and 12-man dungeons (in the gw1 style) and responded by saying that they consider groups of that size to introduce too much organizational problems that are detriment to fun.
Notice, that most of the problems with raids do come from them being 10-man, not from the difficulty itself. So, no, claiming they are some fulfilment of an earlier anet promises is false. The raids as they are now are something they specifically didn’t want to see in this game originally.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
But this type of content was promised even before the initial release. Not necessarily raids, but content for organised groups.
Smaller groups. Devs were specifically asked then about 8 and 12-man dungeons (in the gw1 style) and responded by saying that they consider groups of that size to introduce too much organizational problems that are detriment to fun.
Notice, that most of the problems with raids do come from them being 10-man, not from the difficulty itself. So, no, claiming they are some fulfilment of an earlier anet promises is false. The raids as they are now are something they specifically didn’t want to see in this game originally.
So why does the game need an easy mode if difficulty is not the main problem? More 5 man content (in addition to raids) would be the better solution, also it is new content not recycled already existing content.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Smaller groups. Devs were specifically asked then about 8 and 12-man dungeons (in the gw1 style) and responded by saying that they consider groups of that size to introduce too much organizational problems that are detriment to fun.
Notice, that most of the problems with raids do come from them being 10-man, not from the difficulty itself. So, no, claiming they are some fulfilment of an earlier anet promises is false. The raids as they are now are something they specifically didn’t want to see in this game originally.
Most of the “problems” with raids come from unrealistic expectations. The organizational issues are a fact, but another fact is many players overcome these because they have a genuine interest in the content. The 10-man format enables devs to be more creative when designing raid encounters, because they have more players whom they can assign specific roles (think of Xera startup or Escort splits for instance). The more effort you have to put in organization is just the price you have to pay for more interesting encounters.
That was when they still couldn’t do expac and everydays’ content at the same time, it had nothing to do with raids. Also, notice, it had nothing to do with what you were talking before. Would be raiders for the most part weren’t dissatisfied with the content being old. They were dissatisfied with the type of content offered. They didn’t ask for new content. They asked for a specific type of content, that didn’t exist in the game before.
Nope, you are completely wrong. Aether path was introduced 2013 and since then there was no introduction of any mediocre challenging content into the game at all. Same with fractals besides too few new ones.
Challenging content has been in a very bad spot for years and it was never the intention of Anet to not have such content in the game. With not releasing other content as well the situation became worse and worse, that’s all.
many people left because there were no new content, that’s true. According to what you posted before however, those that specifically left because they were dissatisfied with game’s type of content wasn’t for them should have left. Because the game simply wasn’t for them.
If the devs should have done something to retain them then, then it should do something for the people you claim are not wise now.
Many players left because they got to level 80, went through dungeons once, looked into fractals and then there was nothing challenging to see. You underestimate the number of those players. And a bigger crowd left because there hasn’t been any content at all.
That’s highly debatable.
No, it’s not because the raid lfg is one of the most active lfg section although GW2 hasn’t become a raiding game. Also the fact that many casuals are able to raid now because there are guides, special tactics, classes with carry potential clearly shows that the game is in a much better spot than several years before.
Yes, the change in the game’s direction definitely was good. For you, that is. Not for those that liked the old direction.
I still don’t see a change in game direction: People getting LS every 2-3 months, they added an asc item hunt, fractals are being revamped and we got new ones and will so in the future. WvW and PvP also got changes and another expac is on the way. Last but not least the Anet staff became bigger which is a good sign that the company is healthy and the game not dead at all.
If you are personally not pleased with the current situation then it’s maybe your priorities that have changed or are just not compatible with the game. I’m glad about the massive action that took place because downtime means death.
Why are you against easy-mode then?
I still don’t know why people like you are either not able to read or not willing to. Again for you: I’m not against easy mode raids, I’m against easy modes with the current raid rewards + moving off raid developers from developing challenging content – I have no problem in taking LS developers and delay the next LS releases.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
I still don’t know why people like you are either not able to read or not willing to. Again for you: I’m not against easy mode raids, I’m against easy modes with the current raid rewards + moving off raid developers from developing challenging content – I have no problem in taking LS developers and delay the next LS releases.
You had no problem however with assigning devs to raids, hadn’t you. You don’t think, i hope, that assigning a number of dev spots to raids didn’t deduce those spots from other types of content, right?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
No to delayed LS updates to bring easy mode raids. There is no point in having more easy instanced content that will bring another source of lackluster rewards. For that I can already do T1 fractals, dungeons, world bosses and meta events. What is the point in grouping with other people to gain rewards equal to what the game already provides in any other sources on content ? Personally, if I ever want easy mode raids I will just participate in the easy raid wing encounters. Can we close this thread now ? ^^
I still don’t know why people like you are either not able to read or not willing to. Again for you: I’m not against easy mode raids, I’m against easy modes with the current raid rewards + moving off raid developers from developing challenging content – I have no problem in taking LS developers and delay the next LS releases.
You had no problem however with assigning devs to raids, hadn’t you. You don’t think, i hope, that assigning a number of dev spots to raids didn’t deduce those spots from other types of content, right?
Most people from the raid team were specifically recruited for raid development. They didn’t work for ArenaNet before.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
The difference is before HoT and raids the game was in an awful situation, awful than ever before. Content drought all the way. Many people left because there was no endgame content at all, not even non-challenging.
Raids were and still are a revitalising part of content and have made the game overall better, not worse because it’s an additional option to play – option, not must.
For many players the situation is still the same. Quite a lot of people were doing dungeons which are not able/willing/whatever to raid.
These players are left behind and the game is an even worse situation now.
I agree that content as raids are needed and healthy if done right.
But currently I’m under the impression that raids have replaced new fractals/dungeons or other similar content which adress a wider audience than raids – and I don’t think this is healthy for the game.
I also think that it’s plain stupid to release something like a legendary armour for raids without adding a legendary armour for WvW, PVP and open world at the same time.
And its even more stupid to make a big fuss about it and rub it into everyones face.
What should a WvW player think about such a decision?