Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Have you ever thought that this instanced content wasn’t as popular as you might believe, especially at that time when most dungeon runs where by people trying to do world best times or solo/duo the content?

Most dungeon runs? Perhaps. Though farming dungeons was a thing almost from the beginning, so even here i’m not sure. Most dungeon-running players? Not likely. Those people you speak of were always in a minority.

You mean at the beginning when the only dungeon path that was being run was CoF P1 while other dungeon paths were collecting dust?

Yes, even then (with the caveat that you’re massively exagerrating – other paths were being run then, it’s just that CoF p1 was where farmers congregated). At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Selective memory is a terrible thing. Especially when this subforum used to house nothing but dungeon speed clear times and post.

Jockum.1385:

I think its very important to have these groups. I also think instanced content is very important for groups.

With the announcement of the next Fractal coming in 2 weeks, that’s 3 brand new Fractals in one year. That’s now objectively more Fractals we’ve ever got in a similar time frame. There were lots of reworks this year too, so since next year we won’t have any reworks (hopefully), we might get 4 (or 5?) new Fractals instead. We got 4 instances in 2013 (2 LS dungeons + 1 dungeon + 1 fractal) so I think that’s a good number and a number we can get. If participation and interest remains high that is.

Having instanced content is important and positive for the game. Having too much instanced content isn’t.

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Selective memory is a terrible thing. Especially when this subforum used to house nothing but dungeon speed clear times and post.

Yea the all welcome group people rarely came here to post thats why.

Linken.6345:

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Selective memory is a terrible thing. Especially when this subforum used to house nothing but dungeon speed clear times and post.

Yea the all welcome group people rarely came here to post thats why.

There was all welcome groups back when the meta was 4 warriors and a mesmer ?

News to me.

TexZero.7910:

Linken.6345:

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Selective memory is a terrible thing. Especially when this subforum used to house nothing but dungeon speed clear times and post.

Yea the all welcome group people rarely came here to post thats why.

There was all welcome groups back when the meta was 4 warriors and a mesmer ?

News to me.

Yes there were…even if they werent as common as meta groups.

Yea usualy filled up pretty quick thats why you dident see em.
Since alot of people dident want to run 4 warrios and a mesmer only
Personaly ran guardian warrior, ranger as my daily dungeon guys.

TexZero.7910:

Linken.6345:

TexZero.7910:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

At no time dungeons were run mostly by people that did it for challenge.

You are not remembering it very well then.

Or maybe you aren’t.

Selective memory is a terrible thing. Especially when this subforum used to house nothing but dungeon speed clear times and post.

Yea the all welcome group people rarely came here to post thats why.

There was all welcome groups back when the meta was 4 warriors and a mesmer ?

News to me.

Your memories are indeed really selective then… there have always been “casual run” groups, even before there was LFG. And finding them wasn’t really hard.

Way to derail and redirect the topic but that’s to be expected when people take a little part of a sentence, that fits their agenda, and change topics to something else. All without any evidence or proof whatsoever. Even if those imaginary, impossible to prove, “casual” runs did exist, who even cares?

Truth of the matter is that Dungeons/fractals weren’t as popular as you are saying they were. There is no disputing that and that’s what counts

Sure, if you want to base your arguments on extremely exagerrated selective memories, feel free to do so. Just don’t expect anyone to treat those arguments seriously.

Astralporing.1957:

Sure, if you want to base your arguments on extremely exagerrated selective memories, feel free to do so. Just don’t expect anyone to treat those arguments seriously.

Where am I being selective?
If you go from a business point, if dungeons were so immensely popular why would the devs abandon them? Ever thought about that? Got any kind of proof that they were popular or just your personal data? Where is your proof?
Try to find something to back any of your claims because it’s a normal thing for you to post without anything to back your arguments. That’s not how discussions work.

Well, maddoctor is right. I started shortly after release way before the introduction of the LFG and it was very difficult to find people via chat or a specific site somebody had implemented to bring dungeon runners together. There were very very very few people that ran dungeons besides speed runners & their guilds.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, maddoctor is right. I started shortly after release way before the introduction of the LFG and it was very difficult to find people via chat or a specific site somebody had implemented to bring dungeon runners together. There were very very very few people that ran dungeons besides speed runners & their guilds.

Yes it was harder then sure since people dident want to use the external site. (www.gw2lfg.com if i remember right)
But after they introduced the lfg anyone could put up their lfg and get it filled.

Linken.6345:

But after they introduced the lfg anyone could put up their lfg and get it filled.

Funny how that works for some other type of content that anyone can put up their lfg but for some reason do not want to.

maddoctor.2738:

Linken.6345:

But after they introduced the lfg anyone could put up their lfg and get it filled.

Funny how that works for some other type of content that anyone can put up their lfg but for some reason do not want to.

Yes anyone can put up their lfg but will it be successful, highly unlikely.
5 bear bow rangers could complete any dungeon path but 10 bear bow rangers cant complete a raid now can they?

Linken.6345:

5 bear bow rangers could complete any dungeon path

That’s highly unlikely, especially at harder paths, unless those 5 bear bow rangers had some actual skill.
As for Raids there have been low man clears and for example a Guardian-only Vale Guardian kill. That many people decide not to look at those but use the naked dungeon runs done by experts as examples is another story.

Wasn’t there already a naked raid run?

Yeah, and there are guilds like Cmaj who are focussing on music stuff within GW2 and recently showed their fails but also success in raids.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6lmmic/a_music_guild_tries_to_raid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6n2b23/a_music_guild_tries_to_raid_part_2/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6nmf7h/salt_mursaat_overseer_unarmed_10_seconds_left/

A Mursaat overseer kill without weapons, only 10 seconds over the enrage.

maddoctor.2738:

Having instanced content is important and positive for the game. Having too much instanced content isn’t.

I agree on this. But I don’t think 3 fractals can keep a guild busy for a whole year.
Ofc it doesn’t need to be only fractals (story, guildmissions, dungeons for example). It can be debated which amount of instanced content is enough, sure.

But currently it really raises the question why such a big percentage of new instanced content is raids which cater to a much smaller audience.
Usually games have lots of easier content and only a small amount addresses hardcoreplayers. Be it 5%, 10%, maybe even 20%. 3 new fractals, 4 raids. I think this clearly indicates anets focus on “hardcoreteams”, more casual friendly games would have had 5-10 dungeons/fractals for each raidwing.
I can only assume that this is because there are not many casual teamplayers left in GW2. By my interpretation this indicates an unhealthy status of the game (game has shrinked down to its hardcorecommunity).

maddoctor.2738:

That’s highly unlikely, especially at harder paths, unless those 5 bear bow rangers had some actual skill.
As for Raids there have been low man clears and for example a Guardian-only Vale Guardian kill.

His point was not that difficult to understand.
Dungeons require less specific builds, equip and less player skill and knowledge. So even a bad group with soldiers equip, crappy builds, very little knowledge about the path can do the content.
You can’t compare such a bad group to some of the highest skilled players in low man clears.

There’s a reason why lots of dungeon/fractals lfgs only say “P1” “anyone welcome” or “80” and don’t ask for any killproof or whatever. You can easily join or form such a group, there might be a staff guard or two plus some other strange builds – but in 90% you will succeed. The same does not work in raids.
It’s easy to pug dungeons/fractals, because the content is not that difficult. Raids require good players with good knowledge, builds and equip.

Jockum.1385:

But currently it really raises the question why such a big percentage of new instanced content is raids which cater to a much smaller audience.

There was 1 new Raid released since the Fractal team started releases and LS3 started releases. That’s 1 Raid, 3 Fractals and 6 open world maps during LS3 (10%, 30% and 60%?). I think that’s a really fair split of content. And as I said we got many re-works of Fractals, maybe next time we’ll get 4 or even 5 since we won’t need major reworks like Swampland anymore. So it might be even better next time.

His point was not that difficult to understand.

That’s irrelevant. He said you can do joke build runs in dungeons I say you can do joke build runs in Raids. It’s possible to do a naked dungeon run with bear bow ranger, do you honestly believe that the lower tier player will even try that?

maddoctor.2738:

He said you can do joke build runs in dungeons I say you can do joke build runs in Raids.

He said an average player can do the content even with “not so perfect” builds.
It was not about extremly skilled players doing funruns.

Jockum.1385:

He said an average player can do the content even with “not so perfect” builds.
It was not about extremly skilled players doing funruns.

Well find me a group of completely average players playing 5 bear bow rangers that can finish Arah P4 and we can see

I think the biggest issue people have with raids is that they don’t take place in another dimension but are right there on the world map. Exploring them is not an easy possibility and it feels like you are locked out of part of the game world. Especially as these raid maps are fairly huge and take place right on the world map. It’s like a hard living world story episode that is hard to get into.

An easymode would let them uncover the world map more.

maddoctor.2738:

Well find me a group of completely average players playing 5 bear bow rangers that can finish Arah P4 and we can see

The relevant part of his post was not the 5 bear bow rangers, that was just an example.
The relevant part:
“Yes anyone can put up their lfg but will it be successful, highly unlikely.”
For an average player it is easier to successfully pug a dungeon than a raid.

Even my guild managed to do arah 4. Yes, it is difficult. Some T2 fractals can be difficult, too.

Jockum.1385:

Even my guild managed to do arah 4. Yes, it is difficult. Some T2 fractals can be difficult, too.

If you find these too difficult then maybe just maybe, you should play more of the content that is designed to help you get good before saying you need an easy mode raid :^)

TexZero.7910:

If you find these too difficult then maybe just maybe, you should play more of the content that is designed to help you get good before saying you need an easy mode raid

I recommend reading at least some of the posts written in this topic before you babble nonsense. Ty.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I think the biggest issue people have with raids is that they don’t take place in another dimension but are right there on the world map. Exploring them is not an easy possibility and it feels like you are locked out of part of the game world. Especially as these raid maps are fairly huge and take place right on the world map. It’s like a hard living world story episode that is hard to get into.

An easymode would let them uncover the world map more.

Joining any cleared-raid instance map in the LFG allows you total access to the full map for your Cartographer needs!

Jockum.1385:

TexZero.7910:

If you find these too difficult then maybe just maybe, you should play more of the content that is designed to help you get good before saying you need an easy mode raid

I recommend reading at least some of the posts written in this topic before you babble nonsense. Ty.

Oh i’ve read them and the general basis goes like such

I cant because time (false, you can you just choose not to)
I cant because it’s not guarenteed like dungeons (Also false, dungeons don’t guarantee success)
I cant because my class isn’t accepted (Yet again false, you’re attempting to join groups that do not want to risk it, instead of creating your own)
I cant because it’s too hard (Perspective here, of course it’s hard if all you ever do is T2 fractals, do the rest of the content before jumping to the end)

I want Rewards without doing the content (I too want to be a billionaire but that aint a reality)

I want to access lore (Great! Open up a squad go into wing 3 talk to Glenna, then go to BSF and talk to whatever the dudes name is near the trinket vendor. You now have all the lore.)

I want to see the cutscenes but can’t be bothered to raid (Great, Youtube and twitch have you covered!)

Did i miss anything here, doubt it. It’s the same humdrum arguments from a crowd that want without wanting to do.

Guess people should just watch youtube videos of all the content anet release, wonder how much gems they will sell then.

Can bet you dollars to donuts that the casual crowd spend more money on the gem store then the hardcore do.

Linken.6345:

Guess people should just watch youtube videos of all the content anet release, wonder how much gems they will sell then.

Can bet you dollars to donuts that the casual crowd spend more money on the gem store then the hardcore do.

A lovely bet that no one will win or lose.

Can you really believe that your interpretation of the casual crowd won’t continue to spend more gems on the store than the hardcore, or rather would they revolt and never spend gems again when the current Legendary Armor in the game is not reachable for themselves?

I dunno, that new outfit is pretty slick for any players, if you catch on what I am driving at.

The casual crowd as a whole probably beats all of the hardcore players combined when it comes to spending money on gems. They do make up the majority of our population after all. All though, we might have a different definition on what makes someone casual or hardcore.

I prefer to use the terms veteran and new player. Simply because many such casual newbies end up being rather knowledgable and pretty decent at playing the game in due time. The amount of time they spend playing this game is a part of what defines them as casual or hardcore but certainly not all of it. It is just as important to look at the difficulty of the content those players play, the way they improve over time. They will end up gaining experience and be more skillful at this game. That’s simply a given. The major difference might be the rate of their personal improvement, perhaps.

Veteran PvE players needed content like raids. Many of which had already given up on the game during the content draught while many new players never even got through all of the old content before they moved on.
These veterans were the ones who greatly supported this game for years and would continue to do so if ArenaNet managed to keep their attention with new content. Someone of us bought an amount of gems over the years that would allow a new player to pick up every single item on the gem store and still have gems leftover.
There are certainly those veterans who did not move further than some Open World play. I just think it is not as common as some like to claim. Even the oldest and most casual friends of mine moved towards “harder” content in this game slowly, at a much slower rate than me perhaps, but they still did.

This entire thing is and will always be about nothing more wether legendary armor should be achievable to those not willing to put in the amount of effort and time that is currently needed.
We will never fully agree on this one. Our views on “Achievement vs. Entitlement” are just too different.

Henry.5713:

*This entire thing is and will always be about nothing more wether legendary armor should be achievable to those not willing to put in the amount of effort and time that is currently needed.

Not the amount. The kind of effort. That’s not the same.

And while you are partially right about the veteran casual players, you are also partially wrong. Yes, with experience, such a player becomes capable of doing content of higher and higher difficulty level. That doesn’t mean however that they become interested in doing harder things. If someone liked to play laidback content at the beginning, he’s likely to continue to do so for years. It’s just as their skill level goes up, their definition of laidback content gets wider and wider. So, if some casual veterans out for some casual content are doing raids now, it’s likely because they don’t feel the difficulty at all. Or its not greater for them now than, say, dungeons were for them earlier.

I don’t think those are in majority, though. If that was the case, you wouldn’t hear that much complains.

Henry.5713:

We will never fully agree on this one. Our views on “Achievement vs. Entitlement” are just too different.*

Possibly. Just as our view on what constitutes an achievement or entitlement in this case. And about how much those achievements are worth (or not).

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

…

Not the amount. The kind of effort. That’s not the same.

…

I don’t think those are in majority, though. If that was the case, you wouldn’t hear that much complains.

Henry.5713:

…

Possibly. Just as our view on what constitutes an achievement or entitlement in this case. And about how much those achievements are worth (or not).

Interests do change. Your interests in game content will progress alongside your progress as a player if you continue to play any game for a longer period of time.
I have seen people go from casual PvE to semi-hardcore PvP, have seen them move from dungeons mostly to exclusivelily running WvW. Even full attitudes towards playing casually or playing more “hardcore” have changed.
Are they the majority? No, not exactly. It is still common enough, especially with players who hadn’t matured yet when they started playing. Or even with those who simply picked up such a game for the first time and had no clue what they liked.

To me, the part about “Entitlement vs. Achievement” means players are complaining about an exclusion they decided to enforce on themselves. They do not enjoy the content they would have to run, totally understandable to me. But they aren’t content with others having something they do not, thus they complain about it on the forums. Something I do not understand what so ever.
If legendary armor at least gave you an advantage over ascended items rather than just a bit of convenience and mostly the prestige. I’d get it then. But the way it is right now, most players sound like, I apologize, spoiled brats to me.
I’d certainly prefer special items to remain special myself even if that means I will most likely never acquire them personally.

Henry.5713:

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

…

Not the amount. The kind of effort. That’s not the same.

…

I don’t think those are in majority, though. If that was the case, you wouldn’t hear that much complains.

Henry.5713:

…

Possibly. Just as our view on what constitutes an achievement or entitlement in this case. And about how much those achievements are worth (or not).

Interests do change. Your interests in game content will progress alongside your progress as a player if you continue to play any game for a longer period of time.
I have seen people go from casual PvE to semi-hardcore PvP, have seen them move from dungeons mostly to exclusivelily running WvW. Even full attitudes towards playing casually or playing more “hardcore” have changed.
Are they the majority? No, not exactly. It is still common enough, especially with players who hadn’t matured yet when they started playing. Or even with those who simply picked up such a game for the first time and had no clue what they liked.

To me, the part about “Entitlement vs. Achievement” means players are complaining about an exclusion they decided to enforce on themselves. They do not enjoy the content they would have to run, totally understandable to me. But they aren’t content with others having something they do not, thus they complain about it on the forums. Something I do not understand what so ever.
If legendary armor at least gave you an advantage over ascended items rather than just a bit of convenience and mostly the prestige. I’d get it then. But the way it is right now, most players sound like, I apologize, spoiled brats to me.
I’d certainly prefer special items to remain special myself even if that means I will most likely never acquire them personally.

Just becouse the hardcore feel like legendary armor gives nothing since they never change from berserker or viper dont mean that casual pve or wvwer would use the functionality with vigor.

The casual pvers would happily switch their viper armor to rabid/dire for example if they just want some more toughness to survive a personal story or group event in the open world.
Then go back to mix of viper/rabid untill they feel as tough as they need to.

Maybe even try out power spec to see if they like that before investing in runes for it.

Wvw would feel a huge quality of life boost by just having to carry runes instead of whole armor sets.

Linken.6345:

Guess people should just watch youtube videos of all the content anet release, wonder how much gems they will sell then.

Can bet you dollars to donuts that the casual crowd spend more money on the gem store then the hardcore do.

I’d support it for the people who constantly complain its too hard to do story but want the lore :^)

TexZero.7910:

Oh i’ve read them and the general basis goes like such

I cant because time (false, you can you just choose not to)
I cant because it’s not guarenteed like dungeons (Also false, dungeons don’t guarantee success)
I cant because my class isn’t accepted (Yet again false, you’re attempting to join groups that do not want to risk it, instead of creating your own)
I cant because it’s too hard (Perspective here, of course it’s hard if all you ever do is T2 fractals, do the rest of the content before jumping to the end)

Then you should know that this has nothing to do with any of my posts.

Henry.5713:

Veteran PvE players needed content like raids.

There are quite a lot of veteran players playing since release (or even GW1 veterans) which play “casually” and will never enter raids. Sure, players move (slowly) towards more difficult content. If there is any. But most new content is open world and not really “training” players to become better players. There is a huge “difficulty gap” between raids and open world. In between are dungeons and fractals – which most veterans have done long ago. After a while of “open world only” your skill level might even decrease again.
Jumping over that difficulty gap into raids requires lots of dedication. By my experience do especially older gamers then just say “ok, it’s not meant for me, no biggie” and move on. Which is a problem when the game has not that much else to offer.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I think the biggest issue people have with raids is that they don’t take place in another dimension but are right there on the world map. Exploring them is not an easy possibility and it feels like you are locked out of part of the game world. Especially as these raid maps are fairly huge and take place right on the world map. It’s like a hard living world story episode that is hard to get into.

An easymode would let them uncover the world map more.

1. Go to LA Aerodrome.
2. Ask for a cleared instance.
3. Explore the map for as long as you’d like.

There, I implemented that for you. Not even patch required! Am I good or what?

Jockum.1385:

There are quite a lot of veteran players playing since release (or even GW1 veterans) which play “casually” and will never enter raids.

And that’s their own choice. There’s hardly anyone to blame for it except themselves alone, is there? Certainly not the game devs, which have created excellent content I’ve been casually enjoying for the past one year. And please quit trying to portray a game which has no other content beside raids. It’s ridiculous.

Jockum.1385:

In between are dungeons and fractals – which most veterans have done long ago.

If you are able to T4 you will at least get 4-8 raid bosses down easily.

Henry.5713:

Interests do change. Your interests in game content will progress alongside your progress as a player if you continue to play any game for a longer period of time.

Yes, the interests may change. What you miss here is that this is not a progress, but a wandering around. There’s no single direstion here in which people may move.

Henry.5713:

I have seen people go from casual PvE to semi-hardcore PvP, have seen them move from dungeons mostly to exclusivelily running WvW. Even full attitudes towards playing casually or playing more “hardcore” have changed.

Sure. I saw those people too. In every direction. Remember, that a lot of veteran casuals are former hardcore players that at some point decided that they’d rather have laid-back fun than stressful challenge. In fact, in the initial wave of GW2 players consisted of many MMORPG hardcore veterans that escaped to GW2 from their earlier raid-focused games because they had enough of it.
So, while some people move towards the more hardcore approach, at the same time other people move in the opposite direction.

Henry.5713:

To me, the part about “Entitlement vs. Achievement” means players are complaining about an exclusion they decided to enforce on themselves. They do not enjoy the content they would have to run, totally understandable to me. But they aren’t content with others having something they do not, thus they complain about it on the forums. Something I do not understand what so ever.

Seeing as you completely miss the point of most of the complains, yes, i can see how you don’t understand them at all.

Henry.5713:

I’d certainly prefer special items to remain special myself even if that means I will most likely never acquire them personally.

And i’m the opposite. I usually argue about making things less exclusive, even if those are hard-to-get things that i personally have. And i’m not arguing against leg armor exclusivity because i can’t get it – i’m actually very close to getting one and have all the hard parts behind me already (just really hate the privisioner token farming).

And that’s why i view the “achievement vs entitlement” differently than you. I don’t believe doing raids is an “achievement” worthy of the best armor in the game (even if it’s the best in name only). And i think that expecting that exclusivity is in itself an entitlement.

Vinceman.4572:

Jockum.1385:

In between are dungeons and fractals – which most veterans have done long ago.

If you are able to T4 you will at least get 4-8 raid bosses down easily.

I have seen (guild) groups of people that were perfectly able to do all t4’s easily, and yet giving up on raiding because they couldn’t get past a month of failing.

Feanor.2358:

And that’s their own choice. There’s hardly anyone to blame for it except themselves alone, is there? Certainly not the game devs, which have created excellent content I’ve been casually enjoying for the past one year. And please quit trying to portray a game which has no other content beside raids. It’s ridiculous.

Well, I am refering to casual teams and even my first post acknowledged that there is open world content which is pretty decent content for singleplayers.

Sure it is the choice of players to not play solo in open world and to favour teamcontent when they want to play a MMO. That’s why I recommended those players to buy another MMO in my first post in this topic.
For Anet it is a problem to loose too many players. They can’t just say “then just leave the game” (me) or “suck it up” (you).

Vinceman.4572:

If you are able to T4 you will at least get 4-8 raid bosses down easily.

I think we debated that topic in detail several pages ago. Summary: For many players fractals get boring before they reach T4. Those players still have “done” fractals, seen all maps and so on.
It’s comparable to a player which stops playing WvW before reaching max. rank and all achievements. He hasn’t done everything, still got bored.

Astralporing.1957:

I have seen (guild) groups of people that were perfectly able to do all t4’s easily, and yet giving up on raiding because they couldn’t get past a month of failing.

Yeah, that was true when Wing 1 & 2 were out and meta + guides weren’t that easy to handle like nowadays.
A guild group that isn’t able to succeed Escort in W3 will never be able to get T4s down. That’s a fact. Same goes for Mursaat Overseer, if you fail there, you will fail your T4 dailies every day. Cairn, Samarog, VG and Gorse are not far ahead once you’ve realized how the bosses work.
Of course there are people in fractals that have to be carried every fricking day by pugs but this is the same in raids outside of statics. But when you’re on it, even fractals aren’t the content for such people.

Since I’ve seen the “music guild” (Cmaj) succeeding, MO downed without weapons + other weird stuff and having carried players through raids myself that don’t do T4s or even T1s although I’m not a member of a speed run guild and barely bring super dps numbers on my classes it’s proven for me that the only thing that stops you to not succeed in raids is oneself. If somebody doesn’t want to, it’s fine, he should just let it go. Otherwise try it and maybe you will see raids bring a lot of fun and life in your guild or to you and your (new) friends.

Jockum.1385:

I think we debated that topic in detail several pages ago. Summary: For many players fractals get boring before they reach T4. Those players still have “done” fractals, seen all maps and so on.
It’s comparable to a player which stops playing WvW before reaching max. rank and all achievements. He hasn’t done everything, still got bored.

Well, such a player will play new content several times and then again be bored. So, what’s your plan against that problem?
As a company you have to bring repeatable content otherwise your product will be trash because you are not able to deliver well-developed content in short time spans or people will leave and your company is ruined because you can only develop A+ content once a year.
And yeah, I have a different opinion on the comparison of T1 vs. T4. T1 is a breeze and you definitely don’t have to use certain tactics you have to use on T4. It’s rather that fractals are not your content then. It’s definitely a complete different atmosphere so are raids. If you are not willing to dip into it, also fine, there are enough that are.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, such a player will play new content several times and then again be bored. So, what’s your plan against that problem?

Content.

As said before other games manage to release way more content than GW2 releases, so it is an Anets decision to release low amounts of content. Be it a direct decision to avoid spreading the playerbase, be it a indirect decision by high standards for bosses, animations, level design, voice acting, etc.

Casuals usually don’t run out of content. That’s more a hardcoreplayers problem.

Simple example:
4 times LS which keeps a player busy for a month: 4 months content.
10 dungeons which get repeated maybe 3 times: 30 weeks = 7,5 months.
So the year would be full. Add some events as wintersday, a break for vacations or whatever, …
In year 2 there are already 20 dungeons ingame. People still sometimes repeat old content. So there is maybe 1 month (or more) worth of old “year 1” content for the next 2-3 years until the content is “completly burned”.
Old content adds up.

For a new game it is difficult to provide enough content. An old game should have lots of content to offer. The majority of content GW2 offers for casual groups is very old, very little content has been added in those years in between. With maybe 5 dungeons each year GW2 would be in a much better shape. Instead players kept playing the same content without variation – and now the content is “burned”.
But I think I already described that some pages ago.

Jockum.1385:

Vinceman.4572:

Well, such a player will play new content several times and then again be bored. So, what’s your plan against that problem?

Content.

As said before other games manage to release way more content than GW2 releases, so it is an Anets decision to release low amounts of content. Be it a direct decision to avoid spreading the playerbase, be it a indirect decision by high standards for bosses, animations, level design, voice acting, etc.

Casuals usually don’t run out of content. That’s more a hardcoreplayers problem.

Simple example:
4 times LS which keeps a player busy for a month: 4 months content.
10 dungeons which get repeated maybe 3 times: 30 weeks = 7,5 months.
So the year would be full. Add some events as wintersday, a break for vacations or whatever, …
In year 2 there are already 20 dungeons ingame. People still sometimes repeat old content. So there is maybe 1 month (or more) worth of old “year 1” content for the next 2-3 years until the content is “completly burned”.
Old content adds up.

For a new game it is difficult to provide enough content. An old game should have lots of content to offer. The majority of content GW2 offers for casual groups is very old, very little content has been added in those years in between. With maybe 5 dungeons each year GW2 would be in a much better shape. Instead players kept playing the same content without variation – and now the content is “burned”.
But I think I already described that some pages ago.

None of which is a raid problem.

Still cannot fathom how you jump from an absence of content to we require easy mode raids. It’s just jumping the shark at that point.

TexZero.7910:

Still cannot fathom how you jump from an absence of content to we require easy mode raids. It’s just jumping the shark at that point.

Where did I ask for an easymode?

Some pages ago I wrote: “I’m not really a fan of an easymode. I’d prefer to see maybe 5-10 new dungeons each year instead.”

It’s understandable to ask for an easymode when there is a lack of casual team content.
I don’t agree on an easymode. It’s a “cheap and bad” solution. But I also think Anet doesn’t care enough about casual teams to implement content for this group of players – which is imho a mistake.

Astralporing.1957:

Henry.5713:

To me, the part about “Entitlement vs. Achievement” means players are complaining about an exclusion they decided to enforce on themselves. They do not enjoy the content they would have to run, totally understandable to me. But they aren’t content with others having something they do not, thus they complain about it on the forums. Something I do not understand what so ever.

Seeing as you completely miss the point of most of the complains, yes, i can see how you don’t understand them at all.

I am able to understand the opposite standpoint well enough. One does not have to agree with something to be able to understand said opinion. Do I dare say, people are entitled to have their own opinions?
All though, those who disagree with me certainly enjoy telling me how wrong I am and how little I understand. Makes me wonder.

What I was actually talking about is missing the point of the constant complaining on these forums rather than any opinion in particular. Alas, complaining until ArenaNet gives in is the actual point of it. Now that wouldn’t even be the worst of ideas, considering their track record.

Jockum.1385:

Content.

As said before other games manage to release way more content than GW2 releases, so it is an Anets decision to release low amounts of content. Be it a direct decision to avoid spreading the playerbase, be it a indirect decision by high standards for bosses, animations, level design, voice acting, etc.

Casuals usually don’t run out of content. That’s more a hardcoreplayers problem.

Simple example:
4 times LS which keeps a player busy for a month: 4 months content.
10 dungeons which get repeated maybe 3 times: 30 weeks = 7,5 months.
So the year would be full. Add some events as wintersday, a break for vacations or whatever, …
In year 2 there are already 20 dungeons ingame. People still sometimes repeat old content. So there is maybe 1 month (or more) worth of old “year 1” content for the next 2-3 years until the content is “completly burned”.
Old content adds up.

For a new game it is difficult to provide enough content. An old game should have lots of content to offer. The majority of content GW2 offers for casual groups is very old, very little content has been added in those years in between. With maybe 5 dungeons each year GW2 would be in a much better shape. Instead players kept playing the same content without variation – and now the content is “burned”.
But I think I already described that some pages ago.

Cool then, but that’s the “Easy mode raids” thread, you better should have posted in one of the dungeon rework threads or open a new one.
Btw. lack of content has always been a thing in this game and I have often critized the company for several conclusions they made.
As a dungeon runner with daily tours before HoT for me the biggest mistake of them was to take Aetherpath as example that the community doesn’t want to have more instanced content although they should have realized that the design of this specific path was awful for being a repeatable enjoyment to casuals.
Later on they had to revamp fractals and fractal rewards so the lack of new content was extended and for me it seems that that they are in line now with releasing fractals regularly and more rare raids.
Can we expect to see new dungeons? – No.
Why? – Because they abandoned them and choose fractals as their 5 man instanced content.
We can agree that this decision wasn’t their best and only hope that the release of new content will be steady now until the game which is 5 years old dies.

Jockum.1385:

Well, I am refering to casual teams and even my first post acknowledged that there is open world content which is pretty decent content for singleplayers.

Sure it is the choice of players to not play solo in open world and to favour teamcontent when they want to play a MMO. That’s why I recommended those players to buy another MMO in my first post in this topic.
For Anet it is a problem to loose too many players. They can’t just say “then just leave the game” (me) or “suck it up” (you).

Repeating something over and over again doesn’t make it true. Like stating the open world isn’t group content. Can it be played with a group? Yes, it can. Are there community events hosted in the open world? Yes, there are. So no, it’s not content for “singleplayers”.

And let me repeat myself – you’re having vastly unrealistic expectations. You expect frequent new content aimed at team players which isn’t designed to be repeated over and over again. Won’t happen. Waaaay to expensive to create. I can’t really think of any worse business model in the game dev sector. Nobody gives a feline that some players want this when they aren’t going to pay enough to cover the costs.