Guild Wars 2

Solitude.2097:

Then we must remove the experienced ppl from the equation (just like Dungeons + Fractals) and put a ‘’hard block’’on the liquid rewards they can earn per month from the HoT raids , or put them on 2-week cooldown when completed (killing the end boss) .
It will push them to the newly expanion .

Theres a 15% chance that new casuals ppl will stick to the HoT raids to kill the most easy bosses on a daily farm routine , or avoid them entirely for more simplier actions in the next expansion .

Or they can transform them into daily minigames in LA portal ( as a trainning wheel or so that the design wont get wasted) , replacing them bosses with adorable-cuddly small forms that have the same pattern of attacks but in 3 stages/difficulty that the players must fullfil to complete it , while your auto-attack shoots cuddly hearts and the rest of attacks offer Healing + Protection to your team8s only

And by completing it , he will give you quest that will sent you to kill a dailly easy boss in the Raid , while offering you 150 stats in your primary atributes (to meet the stat difference between the exotic-ascendant gear) for the l33t players that insist that you must have ascendant , before joining

Or people can stop being scrubs and l2p. Raids are already in farm mode and W4 is ridiculously ez. There’s no reason to change mechanics or additional difficulty lvls.

I didnt say they should introduce an easy format Raid , nor nerfing the damage/patterns of the boss .
I am saying that transfering the l33t players to the next expansion , will leave a fragment of them in HoT .
And because they will too few , they will succumb to ’’relax’’ abit and dont request much ‘’high expectations’’ like the old Dungeons and Fractals (looking for 80 bersek + 8k achivment + food buff)

Also by removing the Enrage mechanic , that will leave the ’’future’’ small generation to not get l33t as fast as posible .
Well … until they will do the next expanion Raids that will have the Enrage mechianic…

And again the majority of the casuals , will strive for a more relaxed open world content in the next expanion . So they dont ’’pressured’’ about what the other will think or say to them if they fail .
Or the name ’’Raid’’ creates such a ‘’overhelming feeling’’ that you dont belong there , or you will get yelled

(ofc the highly chance that future elites specs will help you to rolfstomp the HoT raids if they are a focus of high telegraphed attacks ….. but they must give a ’’hint’’ this time in the pressentation …..
they must ’’devalue’’ them to be more approchable to the average joe… while leaving the Newly expanion prestigious ….
I dont know how they will do it , but i will enjoy their strugle /popcorn :P)

Solitude.2097:

I didnt say they should introduce an easy format Raid , nor nerfing the damage/patterns of the boss .
I am saying that transfering the l33t players to the next expansion , will leave a fragment of them in HoT .
And because they will too few , they will succumb to ’’relax’’ abit and dont request much ‘’high expectations’’ like the old Dungeons and Fractals (looking for 80 bersek + 8k achivment + food buff)

Also by removing the Enrage mechanic , that will leave the ’’future’’ small generation to not get l33t as fast as posible .
Well … until they will do the next expanion Raids that will have the Enrage mechianic…

And again the majority of the casuals , will strive for a more relaxed open world content in the next expanion . So they dont ’’pressured’’ about what the other will think or say to them if they fail .
Or the name ’’Raid’’ creates such a ‘’overhelming feeling’’ that you dont belong there , or you will get yelled

(ofc the highly chance that future elites specs will help you to rolfstomp the HoT raids if they are a focus of high telegraphed attacks ….. but they must give a ’’hint’’ this time in the pressentation …..
they must ’’devalue’’ them to be more approchable to the average joe… while leaving the Newly expanion prestigious ….
I dont know how they will do it , but i will enjoy their strugle /popcorn :P)

Worst idea i have ever heard.
Just because the population of raiders would be lower for older wings doesnt mean player would still want to play with the nomad bear bow ranger that misses every mechanic. They would prefer to low men it then carry a dead weight.

Ofc , you can 6-man it , if the future elite spec have more damage and less survibility .
Or you can w8 longer till the ‘’Need ppl 150 LP , Berseker + Trabilaizer gear + food’’ is complete .
Or just like Dungeons and Fractal , players and life will find a way to bloom ,regladles if the content is hard and the expirienced players are gone .
(….heck….. you see more Knight gear players now In fractals or double healers or less /Kick others after a wipe , while that the more ’’expirienced’’ players have moved to Raids , with their desireable moto : ‘’kill fast equals more enjoyment’’ .

(WHY THERE IS NOT ENRAGE MECHANICS IN THERE ???? I DEMAND MY MONEY BACK ! I WANT TO TALK TO THE CHEFF ! )

All that whithout even creating a ‘’easy mode’’ , or nerfing the bosses .
The only enemy of the community , is the other half of the community

edit:But this time there must be a ’’hint’’ and a devalue , for maxxed effect …

At first some random 6%, now some magic 15%…
It’s amazing where you get those numbers from, makes really sense.

Vinceman.4572:

At first some random 6%, now some magic 15%…
It’s amazing where you get those numbers from, makes really sense.

You found out that i was lying !
A little rub there and there and i can inflate the numbers easily :P
Good job expirienced player

Well, you’re just plain wrong. Doesn’t matter, I don’t care.

So lets devalue raids so people without experience, gear, skills, commitment, effort, initiative, patience can clear them by autoattacking.
Anet doesnt have to cater to people who dont care to improve, no1 does and no1 owes them anything.
And unfortunately considering how ez this game is on its whole, the “average joe” of GW2 is by no means average. It’s bottom of the barrel. I dont wanna see raids become as pointless as dungeons are now.

Again i didnt say that they should introduce any easier form raid.
I simply say that by forcing the ‘’expirienced players’’ to focus on the newly expanion rather then HoT + removing the Enrage that most of the time is useless (because ppl die from themechanics – just like Fractals) , it will create a more plaesant atmosphere for the newly players to to join the raids (just like the Dungeons + Fractals) where double healers or ppl with Knight gear are running atm .

If ppl try to cheese out the raid and take their time , the End Boss will get 10 stacks of madness that will be Unbeatable (so you wont get the end rewards)

But in the other hand …. it will hurt the ppl that benefit from the ‘’pay me huge amount of gold’’ to get our LP points , if too many casuals are playing :P
Too bad i dont know their names , to congratulate them for their marvelous business and ingenuity

:P

zoomborg.9462:

people without commitment

/thread

zoomborg.9462:

So lets devalue raids

Well to be fair, you can literally buy the raids and get carried to Legendary armour.

I enjoy the challenging content, but if others wanted an easy mode, I wouldn’t care.

Solitude.2097:

Then we must remove the experienced ppl from the equation (just like Dungeons + Fractals) and put a ‘’hard block’’on the liquid rewards they can earn per month from the HoT raids , or put them on 2-week cooldown when completed (killing the end boss) .
It will push them to the newly expanion .

People will go to the new expansion anyway. I heard the term “legendary trinkets” passed around, but regardless I’m certain there will be enough incentive for that in any case.

The hard cap on rewards exists and its weekly. It makes no sense to cap it further, unless you’re actively trying to kill raids. You’re aware that the raids are instanced content and dedicated players playing them regularly aren’t hindering casual ones from doing the same, right?

MashMash.1645:

zoomborg.9462:

So lets devalue raids

Well to be fair, you can literally buy the raids and get carried to Legendary armour.

I enjoy the challenging content, but if others wanted an easy mode, I wouldn’t care.

Agreed u can certainly buy them, titles, achievements anything.
Fortunately on EU it hasnt turned into a credit card fest yet unlike NA where people buy anything and everything from Raids to Fractals to PVP tournaments…. I dont like the idea that you can buy them at all but most people i know and play with would never spend gold on stuff like this. If u take out the challenge from the game all that is left is mindless farming and zerging.

The same argument existed in Dungeons + Fractals , where all the LFG lists had the same comment : ‘’only 80 , berseker , 8k achiv , food’’ and on the forums ppl where saying ‘’you know you can make your own casual lfg and take your time ’’
or ‘’the community uses Bersekers , because they want to clear it as fast as pisible , rather than wasting 2 hours’’

But what happend when they reduced the gold from dungeons and made Raids most rewarding content , compared to Fractals ?
In a magical way , without those L33T players the ’’Istanced’’ community became more friendly from the gear you wear , or how many times your head face the ground .
While the Raid community …. well …. lets say its summer atm and we dont know how may are playing it ….

Simply by reducing the gold rewards+Errage from HoT and keeping the same ammount+mechanic for the next expanion Raid , will do the trick .
Casuals will infest the HoT , and its their job to learn the mechanics without to worry is some1 L33T players is trigger happy to /kick them .
Or they reduce their shyness , from joining any Raids in the future expanion (dont believe so – now its 5% :P)

Solitude.2097:

The same argument existed in Dungeons + Fractals , where all the LFG lists had the same comment : ‘’only 80 , berseker , 8k achiv , food’’ and on the forums ppl where saying ‘’you know you can make your own casual lfg and take your time ’’
or ‘’the community uses Bersekers , because they want to clear it as fast as pisible , rather than wasting 2 hours’’

But what happend when they reduced the gold from dungeons and made Raids most rewarding content , compared to Fractals ?
In a magical way , without those L33T players the ’’Istanced’’ community became more friendly from the gear you wear , or how many times your head face the ground .
While the Raid community …. well …. lets say its summer atm and we dont know how may are playing it ….

Simply by reducing the gold rewards+Errage from HoT and keeping the same ammount+mechanic for the next expanion Raid , will do the trick .
Casuals will infest the HoT , and its their job to learn the mechanics without to worry is some1 L33T players is trigger happy to /kick them .
Or they reduce their shyness , from joining any Raids in the future expanion (dont believe so – now its 5% :P)

Yes reducing the reward will make more casual play the raid content /s
How you could think that giving people less reward would make more people play raids?? Or make veteran whilling to carry others? 0 logic

Solitude.2097:

The same argument existed in Dungeons + Fractals , where all the LFG lists had the same comment : ‘’only 80 , berseker , 8k achiv , food’’ and on the forums ppl where saying ‘’you know you can make your own casual lfg and take your time ’’
or ‘’the community uses Bersekers , because they want to clear it as fast as pisible , rather than wasting 2 hours’’

But what happend when they reduced the gold from dungeons and made Raids most rewarding content , compared to Fractals ?
In a magical way , without those L33T players the ’’Istanced’’ community became more friendly from the gear you wear , or how many times your head face the ground .
While the Raid community …. well …. lets say its summer atm and we dont know how may are playing it ….

Simply by reducing the gold rewards+Errage from HoT and keeping the same ammount+mechanic for the next expanion Raid , will do the trick .
Casuals will infest the HoT , and its their job to learn the mechanics without to worry is some1 L33T players is trigger happy to /kick them .
Or they reduce their shyness , from joining any Raids in the future expanion (dont believe so – now its 5% :P)

I still haven’t understood your point on the whole thing. Where do you see a problem at the moment?
Too few people playing raids? That’s not the case. Raids are well visited by the target audience. Anet is also very pleased about the current situation and finally with the introduction of legendary armor there was a new huge influx of players that got into raids for the first time. I escorted several of them and they were surprised how easy raiding can be if everybody is working for the team and knows his class and what to do where
Additionally, there are many initiatives beginners can choose to start raiding. Of course, it’s not the easiest thing for people with family duties or people in shift work. But hey, that’s the usual thing because this here is a game and should always be inferior to real life.

Only thing putting me off raids is not the difficulty but the lameness of the Puzzle like encounters (im sure better term for how they are.. I guess mechanic heavy as hell and require pinpoint practice which is a huge stresser if you mess up a lot simply due to latency of a pc) which are not my cup of tea.. They should of just made raids more of larger dungeons (not gw2s version of dungeons.. which is basically extreme stupid ai)which had more fodder and then a cool boss encounter. Guess my opinion but this game lacks actual non visual less stress encounters as if you screw up you get blamed (even if they don’t.. u know they thinking to themselves as they tend to talk a bit diff of frustration as THE NEW GUY IS HERE. just promotes toxic behavior). Now im not saying make it like dungeons as dungeons the AI are stupid as hell but it should be a good mix. Id like to kill some fodder (and prevent jumping by them by some obstructions perhaps but that I don’t know)

Maybe im the only one who feels the boss encounters are overly investing and after doing any of the raids you feel drained to hell. But I know people do like it as I got a friend who does. Basically im just here stating why I dislike raids (I wouldn’t care as much if it was wasn’t the predominate way ANet is releasing difficult content) but well this what they turned to…….. which is basically putting me off to PVE sadly. Fractals I dislike myself as the content is bland as hell and its the traditional dungeons we got here of a sitting mark and you just DPS it to death its very boring. I know my opinions wont change things but Im just saying how it would bring me to the raid scene. (A good example of what id like to see it he larger dungeons in guild wars 1 which were long, interesting… but you had fodder to kill to perhaps get some decent stuff on the way while doing interesting encounters.

But I do gotta love the comments to people with issues with the Raids and get stomped out defending it lol. God forbid others have opinions that don’t fit. If that many people are upset something is wrong.

LinhZeri.6412:

Only thing putting me off raids is not the difficulty but the lameness of the Puzzle like encounters (im sure better term for how they are.. I guess mechanic heavy as hell and require pinpoint practice which is a huge stresser if you mess up a lot simply due to latency of a pc) which are not my cup of tea.. They should of just made raids more of larger dungeons (not gw2s version of dungeons.. which is basically extreme stupid ai)which had more fodder and then a cool boss encounter. Guess my opinion but this game lacks actual non visual less stress encounters as if you screw up you get blamed (even if they don’t.. u know they thinking to themselves as they tend to talk a bit diff of frustration as THE NEW GUY IS HERE. just promotes toxic behavior). Now im not saying make it like dungeons as dungeons the AI are stupid as hell but it should be a good mix. Id like to kill some fodder (and prevent jumping by them by some obstructions perhaps but that I don’t know)

Maybe im the only one who feels the boss encounters are overly investing and after doing any of the raids you feel drained to hell. But I know people do like it as I got a friend who does. Basically im just here stating why I dislike raids (I wouldn’t care as much if it was wasn’t the predominate way ANet is releasing difficult content) but well this what they turned to…….. which is basically putting me off to PVE sadly. Fractals I dislike myself as the content is bland as hell and its the traditional dungeons we got here of a sitting mark and you just DPS it to death its very boring. I know my opinions wont change things but Im just saying how it would bring me to the raid scene. (A good example of what id like to see it he larger dungeons in guild wars 1 which were long, interesting… but you had fodder to kill to perhaps get some decent stuff on the way while doing interesting encounters.

But I do gotta love the comments to people with issues with the Raids and get stomped out defending it lol. God forbid others have opinions that don’t fit. If that many people are upset something is wrong.

So basically you dont like dungeons because its too easy, you dont like fractals because it just dps, and you dont like raids because it have mechanics. So you dont like easy things and you dont like hard things, you like nothing about the pve, maybe this is not the game for you them.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Yes reducing the reward will make more casual play the raid content /s
How you could think that giving people less reward would make more people play raids?? Or make veteran whilling to carry others? 0 logic

The casuals could aim for something called LEGENDARY Armor
It will give a reason to players to buy the HoT , while the pro players can stay on PoF contained…ehm avoiding the casuals .

After some consideration , this is my newer idea , because i have seen ppl trying to defend the difficulty/prestige of the Raids + lequid rewards

a) There wont be nerfs on the Bosses
b) Nor easy mode
c) The enrage mechanic can stay
d) Normaly you would have done the the Raid once per week for the rewards …… now the Heart of Thorns Raids offers less gold rewards (9 gold) for 1,5 hours played , but wthout the weekly cd .
The same liquid rewards that fractals + dungeons gives , but can stack up even to 100g if you keep playing and succeding every week .
While the PoF raids can stay on the same amount (35 gold ?) for playing once per week .

If you completed it once , the next time you will join you get a debuff (Chaos) that acts as a self-damaging Sigil of Fire + Air each time you get hit from a single tick from the bosse’s aoe or just simply looking at you (the third time you get 800 damage per evade) :P

You can migrate those damage with Knight gear or sucrifising some damage oriented talents or have enought skills to avoid everything .
The debuff is lost after a week or simply by participating in the next raid with Defensive Gear based character and on the third run as a healing based character

The only con is : that normaly you have to play raids once for 1,5 hours to get the liquid rewards , while now you can get as much as gold you can , but in less timeneeded and more replaybillity/active players in the same time

What do you say ?
Evn more gold if you keep playing in that week + not a single nerf(but even harder content so the casual loose faster) + more players active all the time :P

Solitude.2097:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Yes reducing the reward will make more casual play the raid content /s
How you could think that giving people less reward would make more people play raids?? Or make veteran whilling to carry others? 0 logic

The casuals could aim for something called LEGENDARY Armor
It will give a reason to players to buy the HoT , while the pro players can stay on PoF contained…ehm avoiding the casuals .

Legendary armor is available in WvW and sPvP next week.

Looking at the threads about Shattered Observatory where people complain that they can’t clear difficulties that are not aimed at them and they could do a lower difficulty shows that there is no point in easy mode raids, the threads will continue because the rewards are higher in normal mode.

This is true they dont need a easy mode , but by reducing the gold + removing the weekly Raid cd and forcing the players to not play only 1 week and aim for the next Raid , will have more ppl in the que to play with .
While the casuals will just get rolfstompled fromthe mechanics , the pros must play more … with more end liquid rewards !

There will be less ppl to buy and play HoT , so there must be a mechanic that ’’forces’’ ppl to play more for HoT Raids to stay alive and thrive rather than playing once per week ……
If they feel that their ‘’less time/ more rewards ratio’’ is affected , they can join PoF that will uneffected

Blaeys.3102:

Raids address the needs of a particular audience well – and that may have been the audience they were originally targeted to at first. But, with the inclusion of interesting storylines (Saul most notably) and unique mechanics and bosses, they moved from just being challenging into something that would have more mass appeal across the PVE population in the game.

Right now there are multiple game modes, and multiple content types. Each serves different demographics, and only players who find a place in multiple demographics cross over into different content. You’re saying that different content that serves different types of players is only OK if it is not interesting to you, specifically.

That’s a slippery slope argument. There are a lot of players. Many of them will find different things interesting. If the game needs to cater to you specifically, why does it not need to cater to all those other people? Why are you, and however many or few others who want easy tier raids more important than anyone else?

The facts are that ANet has limited resources. Every demographic wants more from ANet. They cannot accommodate everyone’s desires. Why should they give you what you want and not me, raiders, PvPers, WvWers and however many other players?

The only possible rationale you can offer is the one you and a few others frequently make, the appeal to representing a “majority” that you have not proven. I could as easily contend that the majority of non-raiders don’t give a kitten about raids at all.
I could say that while they may not be happy that raids are in the game, they would certainly prefer that no more resources be allocated to raid development at the expense of stuff they like.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Blaeys.3102:

Raids address the needs of a particular audience well – and that may have been the audience they were originally targeted to at first. But, with the inclusion of interesting storylines (Saul most notably) and unique mechanics and bosses, they moved from just being challenging into something that would have more mass appeal across the PVE population in the game.

Right now there are multiple game modes, and multiple content types. Each serves different demographics, and only players who find a place in multiple demographics cross over into different content. You’re saying that different content that serves different types of players is only OK if it is not interesting to you, specifically.

That’s a slippery slope argument. There are a lot of players. Many of them will find different things interesting. If the game needs to cater to you specifically, why does it not need to cater to all those other people? Why are you, and however many or few others who want easy tier raids more important than anyone else?

The facts are that ANet has limited resources. Every demographic wants more from ANet. They cannot accommodate everyone’s desires. Why should they give you what you want and not me, raiders, PvPers, WvWers and however many other players?

The only possible rationale you can offer is the one you and a few others frequently make, the appeal to representing a “majority” that you have not proven. I could as easily contend that the majority of non-raiders don’t give a kitten about raids at all.
I could say that while they may not be happy that raids are in the game, they would certainly prefer that no more resources be allocated to raid development at the expense of stuff they like.

You make some good points here, but I contend that the segmentation approach (PVE area 1 is for Type A players while PVE area 2 is for Type B players) isn’t a sustainable model for the game. It create have and have not mentalities (talking in terms of experience, not rewards) and encourages elitism (not calling anyone elitist) – and, just as importantly, it waters down game populations for particular areas.

Let’s look at fractals as a good example. I lead a guild of about 200 active members. Of those members, about 10-12 love the T4 fractals and run them every day. But, at the same time, I see dozens of members in T1 and T2 fractals every week just because they want to do something other than open world. It’s something else they can enjoy with their friends. The tiered model works – while still giving players some very real challenges to overcome and unique rewards to earn. Simply put, they do it because it is fun for them.

Raids are the only part of the game the more casual players feel like they are locked out of (whether they are or not is moot – it is the perception that matters). And, raids are something they would (I believe based on what I see in my guild) enjoy if they could at a more casual pace.

I don’t want to take anything away from anyone. I don’t really care about the reward issue. I think the idea of prestige or entitlement in a video game is silly. I want people to just enjoy themselves playing a fun game. My goal in speaking out on the forums is – and has always been – advocating for something I think my guildees and friends would find enjoyable and fun. That is all there is to it.

Blaeys.3102:

It’s important that, if you believe this is something the game needs, you make that known.

Try believing less, questioning and analyzing more. One can believe in whatever they please, it doesn’t make their belief relevant, or even true. Like there are people who believe a game needs “easy mode challenging content”, which is an obvious oxymoron.

Blaeys.3102:

Raids are the only part of the game the more casual players feel like they are locked out of (whether they are or not is moot – it is the perception that matters). And, raids are something they would (I believe based on what I see in my guild) enjoy if they could at a more casual pace.

While perception is important, it is much more difficult to discuss because so many things outside of ANET developing content can influence perception.

For example, for almost a year the perception was that all eles were worth taking over other DPS classes, even when the ele was bad. When something went wrong, the eles were never at fault because apparantely in the first year all eles do 30k DPS.

Then DPS meters came along and folks realized that this isn’t true and that many other classes can fill DPS roles, some even better than ele pending on the boss and the state of the balance at that time.

The point is that perception is tricky to discuss because of so many influences. For example, what if the perception of getting into raids was changed due to giving more incentives for raiding groups to bring in new players? In this fictional scenario there is no easy mode, but more players are accessing the content, doing training modes, etc.

And ez mode pvp and wvw now that they’re getting legendary armor.

Blaeys.3102:

You make some good points here, but I contend that the segmentation approach (PVE area 1 is for Type A players while PVE area 2 is for Type B players) isn’t a sustainable model for the game. It create have and have not mentalities (talking in terms of experience, not rewards) and encourages elitism (not calling anyone elitist) – and, just as importantly, it waters down game populations for particular areas.

Let’s look at fractals as a good example. I lead a guild of about 200 active members. Of those members, about 10-12 love the T4 fractals and run them every day. But, at the same time, I see dozens of members in T1 and T2 fractals every week just because they want to do something other than open world. It’s something else they can enjoy with their friends. The tiered model works – while still giving players some very real challenges to overcome and unique rewards to earn. Simply put, they do it because it is fun for them.

Raids are the only part of the game the more casual players feel like they are locked out of (whether they are or not is moot – it is the perception that matters). And, raids are something they would (I believe based on what I see in my guild) enjoy if they could at a more casual pace.

I don’t want to take anything away from anyone. I don’t really care about the reward issue. I think the idea of prestige or entitlement in a video game is silly. I want people to just enjoy themselves playing a fun game. My goal in speaking out on the forums is – and has always been – advocating for something I think my guildees and friends would find enjoyable and fun. That is all there is to it.

All MMO’s offer segmented PvE content. If a given MMO does not offer content for various groups, they tend to lose the groups they ignore. Keeping a diverse game population together just will not happen.

Fractals may seem like an ideal solution. In some ways it is like tiered raids in WoW, at least insofar as offering different difficulty scales. However, there are plenty of people who play GW2 open world and story exclusively. Some of them do not do fractals at all because even the single digit iterations are more than they can handle. I was in a guild at one point which had such people in it. Believe me, we tried.

Speaking of trying, has your guild tried doing any of the easier raid bosses? I know it’s been mentioned that ANet’s approach to tiered raids has been tiered difficulty across different bosses. I’m sure that even if the easier ones are not already mentioned in this or other threads, that someone who knows would be glad to tell you which ones to look at. If you think some of your guild members would enjoy raids at a more casual pace, why not — as leader — try to set that up? It might take some effort on your part to be the one who knows what to do, but other than your time, what is holding you back? Perceptions can change if someone challenges them.

Feanor.2358:

runeblade.7514:

Draco.9480:

maybe learn how the game works?

I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.

How do you suppose the active raiders learned it? Born with the abilities? Granted by a divine intervention? Transferred to them with alien technology?

I wouldn’t know. None of the advice the ‘raiders’ tips on how to join a raid are working for me.

So, if you did tell me that, I might believe it.

zoomborg.9462:

Solitude.2097:

Then we must remove the experienced ppl from the equation (just like Dungeons + Fractals) and put a ‘’hard block’’on the liquid rewards they can earn per month from the HoT raids , or put them on 2-week cooldown when completed (killing the end boss) .
It will push them to the newly expanion .

Theres a 15% chance that new casuals ppl will stick to the HoT raids to kill the most easy bosses on a daily farm routine , or avoid them entirely for more simplier actions in the next expansion .

Or they can transform them into daily minigames in LA portal ( as a trainning wheel or so that the design wont get wasted) , replacing them bosses with adorable-cuddly small forms that have the same pattern of attacks but in 3 stages/difficulty that the players must fullfil to complete it , while your auto-attack shoots cuddly hearts and the rest of attacks offer Healing + Protection to your team8s only

And by completing it , he will give you quest that will sent you to kill a dailly easy boss in the Raid , while offering you 150 stats in your primary atributes (to meet the stat difference between the exotic-ascendant gear) for the l33t players that insist that you must have ascendant , before joining

Or people can stop being scrubs and l2p. Raids are already in farm mode and W4 is ridiculously ez. There’s no reason to change mechanics or additional difficulty lvls.

If only I could l2p in the first place by these raid farmers letting me join their raids.

runeblade.7514:

None of the advice the ‘raiders’ tips on how to join a raid are working for me.

So you either lack the time for it, or you aren’t dedicated enough. Which is perfectly fine, by the way.

Honestly from a Revenue point of view for GW2 I think it makes a lot of sense to add a ‘easy’ and ‘normal’ difficulty to the current existing raids.

I think players who are strictly against the implementation of additional difficulties would be in the minority here. I would also imagine given how much time said players would be spending in game, selling raids etc. they would have enough gold that they do not spend too much real money on buying gems (devs would have actual information on this).

Taking these 3 factors into account, i.e lower spend on GEMs, lower percentage of player base and only a portion of raiders (I don’t think all current raiders are against multiple difficulty settings only a portion would be). The loss of revenue from implementing this would be minimal.

On the other hand I know plenty of players who I use to play with during the release of HoT who have quit due to lack of accessibility to raids.

I myself who spent quiet alot on GEMs, took a very long break from GW2 because the way raids have been implemented left a very sour taste with me and have recently come back in anticipation of the new expansion.

I tried to convince another friend to come back and buy the expansion. One of the key reasons she mentioned that made her find GW2 no longer interesting is how hard it is to get into raids and how toxic it can be.

I honestly wonder if the time and resources devs spent on developing raids in its current form vrs the net increase/decrease in real world money spent on the game was profitable. Given how many players who have told me they have either quit or taken a long break from the game due to raids I would imagine they actually lost money by making raids so hard to access.

Let me be clear I am not saying remove raids with the current difficulty. Challenging content is good. However not having steps to learn the mechanics and progress your way to the more challenging content makes no sense.

Fractals do it very well as you progress to harder and harder content, why not for raids?

Fractals are NOT a stepping stone into raids because you DO NOT learn actual raid mechanics, having an easier version of the raids, with a higher chance of success would encourage more players to form the group of 10 players required to go and try learn a raid.

In the long run raids can be a very good thing for the game if the difficulty modes are added. Currently I think its one of the few things done very poorly in GW2 due to lack of difficulty settings.

Supz.9836:

Honestly from a Revenue point of view for GW2 I think it makes a lot of sense to add a ‘easy’ and ‘normal’ difficulty to the current existing raids.

I think players who are strictly against the implementation of additional difficulties would be in the minority here. I would also imagine given how much time said players would be spending in game, selling raids etc. they would have enough gold that they do not spend too much real money on buying gems (devs would have actual information on this).

Taking these 3 factors into account, i.e lower spend on GEMs, lower percentage of player base and only a portion of raiders (I don’t think all current raiders are against multiple difficulty settings only a portion would be). The loss of revenue from implementing this would be minimal.

On the other hand I know plenty of players who I use to play with during the release of HoT who have quit due to lack of accessibility to raids.

I myself who spent quiet alot on GEMs, took a very long break from GW2 because the way raids have been implemented left a very sour taste with me and have recently come back in anticipation of the new expansion.

I tried to convince another friend to come back and buy the expansion. One of the key reasons she mentioned that made her find GW2 no longer interesting is how hard it is to get into raids and how toxic it can be.

I honestly wonder if the time and resources devs spent on developing raids in its current form vrs the net increase/decrease in real world money spent on the game was profitable. Given how many players who have told me they have either quit or taken a long break from the game due to raids I would imagine they actually lost money by making raids so hard to access.

Let me be clear I am not saying remove raids with the current difficulty. Challenging content is good. However not having steps to learn the mechanics and progress your way to the more challenging content makes no sense.

Fractals do it very well as you progress to harder and harder content, why not for raids?

Fractals are NOT a stepping stone into raids because you DO NOT learn actual raid mechanics, having an easier version of the raids, with a higher chance of success would encourage more players to form the group of 10 players required to go and try learn a raid.

In the long run raids can be a very good thing for the game if the difficulty modes are added. Currently I think its one of the few things done very poorly in GW2 due to lack of difficulty settings.

ArenaNet is not big enough to maintain multiple difficulties in raids without major drawbacks.

If your friends quit over raids they would have quit anyway shortly after.

Look at WoWs LFR. It teaches you nothing, mechanics are irrelevant. The only way you learn mechanics is if they punish you for failing, everything else just teaches bad habits that kills you in normal mode.
Raids have easier and harder encounter, the same content in different difficulties is boring and most leave before they get to the end.

Miellyn.6847:

Supz.9836:

Honestly from a Revenue point of view for GW2 I think it makes a lot of sense to add a ‘easy’ and ‘normal’ difficulty to the current existing raids.

I think players who are strictly against the implementation of additional difficulties would be in the minority here. I would also imagine given how much time said players would be spending in game, selling raids etc. they would have enough gold that they do not spend too much real money on buying gems (devs would have actual information on this).

Taking these 3 factors into account, i.e lower spend on GEMs, lower percentage of player base and only a portion of raiders (I don’t think all current raiders are against multiple difficulty settings only a portion would be). The loss of revenue from implementing this would be minimal.

On the other hand I know plenty of players who I use to play with during the release of HoT who have quit due to lack of accessibility to raids.

I myself who spent quiet alot on GEMs, took a very long break from GW2 because the way raids have been implemented left a very sour taste with me and have recently come back in anticipation of the new expansion.

I tried to convince another friend to come back and buy the expansion. One of the key reasons she mentioned that made her find GW2 no longer interesting is how hard it is to get into raids and how toxic it can be.

I honestly wonder if the time and resources devs spent on developing raids in its current form vrs the net increase/decrease in real world money spent on the game was profitable. Given how many players who have told me they have either quit or taken a long break from the game due to raids I would imagine they actually lost money by making raids so hard to access.

Let me be clear I am not saying remove raids with the current difficulty. Challenging content is good. However not having steps to learn the mechanics and progress your way to the more challenging content makes no sense.

Fractals do it very well as you progress to harder and harder content, why not for raids?

Fractals are NOT a stepping stone into raids because you DO NOT learn actual raid mechanics, having an easier version of the raids, with a higher chance of success would encourage more players to form the group of 10 players required to go and try learn a raid.

In the long run raids can be a very good thing for the game if the difficulty modes are added. Currently I think its one of the few things done very poorly in GW2 due to lack of difficulty settings.

ArenaNet is not big enough to maintain multiple difficulties in raids without major drawbacks.

If your friends quit over raids they would have quit anyway shortly after.

Look at WoWs LFR. It teaches you nothing, mechanics are irrelevant. The only way you learn mechanics is if they punish you for failing, everything else just teaches bad habits that kills you in normal mode.
Raids have easier and harder encounter, the same content in different difficulties is boring and most leave before they get to the end.

Thats not true at all, she quit shortly after the expansion which they were really looking forward to. Additionally I can say with certainty I took a very long break and stopped spending because of raids.

If Arena net can implement new raids and have multiple difficulty in fractals they can surely implement multiple difficulty levels in raid. If resources are an issue they should take time to develop difficulty levels first before implementing new raids.

Actually I started WoW very late (when I took a break from GW2, I actually thought raiding stinks in GW2 so lets give it a shot in WoW). I find the game itself mediocre compared to GW2. However it is very easy to break into raids in WoW. I have never had to wait long to access any raid in WoW. They did a much better job than GW2 at getting more players joining the raid community.

I think if it wasn’t for raids WoW would be dead so it makes sense that they spend time improving the system and catering for the largest and most profitable player base.

WoW still at the same time manages to have hard difficulties as well.

The reason why players stay longer in WoW is you bother to stay and learn and you aim for more challenging content because you can set SMART goals which are achievable.

Currently in GW2 the challenge in finding a group to learn with (although not impossible) and then the time required with such groups to effectively learn the raid for new and returning players usually puts them off raids altogether. The gap is too large which is why we need multiple difficulty settings.

The achievable goal to get to harder content is why you need BOTH challenging content and content which leads up to that content (again I stress fractals doesn’t provide sufficient training for raid mechanics). This will probably increase the number of players, and the time spent on raids by those players.

Supz.9836:

Thats not true at all, she quit shortly after the expansion which they were really looking forward to. Additionally I can say with certainty I took a very long break and stopped spending because of raids.

If Arena net can implement new raids and have multiple difficulty in fractals they can surely implement multiple difficulty levels in raid. If resources are an issue they should take time to develop difficulty levels first before implementing new raids.

Actually I started WoW very late (when I took a break from GW2, I actually thought raiding stinks in GW2 so lets give it a shot in WoW). I find the game itself mediocre compared to GW2. However it is very easy to break into raids in WoW. I have never had to wait long to access any raid in WoW. They did a much better job than GW2 at getting more players joining the raid community.

I think if it wasn’t for raids WoW would be dead so it makes sense that they spend time improving the system and catering for the largest and most profitable player base.

WoW still at the same time manages to have hard difficulties as well.

The reason why players stay longer in WoW is you bother to stay and learn and you aim for more challenging content because you can set SMART goals which are achievable.

Currently in GW2 the challenge in finding a group to learn with (although not impossible) and then the time required with such groups to effectively learn the raid for new and returning players usually puts them off raids altogether. The gap is too large which is why we need multiple difficulty settings.

The achievable goal to get to harder content is why you need BOTH challenging content and content which leads up to that content (again I stress fractals doesn’t provide sufficient training for raid mechanics). This will probably increase the number of players, and the time spent on raids by those players.

Why couldn’t she find a group in the beginning? Everyone was inexperienced, it was pretty easy to find groups.
Yes they could, but with a cost. Either longer development for raids or other content. Between Wing 3 and 4 were 8 months, Wing 4 was released 6 months ago. The development is already slow, there is no reason to decrease it further.

Raid access in WoW seems easier because you can outgear it. You won’t find a rnd group with an appropriate level, all groups have the same item level or higher as the drops as requirement. LFR is not a raid.

WoW is built around instanced content. Of course it would be dead if you removed it, they have nothing else.

GW2 is built around open world with tacked on instanced content as a challenge. Instances are not the primary content or focus of GW2.

Do you have any metrics how long the average player stays?
Doing the same content over and over in different difficulties is the exact opposite of smart.

There are 3 or more guilds in EU dedicated to raid training. It is actually really easy to find a group to train with if you want to. There is no need for difficulty settings for a training purpose. It would actually increase the gap.

Yes you need content that leads up to it. Not the same in different difficulties. T4 fractals and fractal CM is where it at. Why do fractals not provide training for mechanics?

The only metrics we have (GW2efficiency) actually shows that more people raid or have tried raids than reached lvl 100 fractals.

Miellyn.6847:

Supz.9836:

snip

Why couldn’t she find a group in the beginning? Everyone was inexperienced, it was pretty easy to find groups.
Yes they could, but with a cost. Either longer development for raids or other content. Between Wing 3 and 4 were 8 months, Wing 4 was released 6 months ago. The development is already slow, there is no reason to decrease it further.

Raid access in WoW seems easier because you can outgear it. You won’t find a rnd group with an appropriate level, all groups have the same item level or higher as the drops as requirement. LFR is not a raid.

WoW is built around instanced content. Of course it would be dead if you removed it, they have nothing else.

GW2 is built around open world with tacked on instanced content as a challenge. Instances are not the primary content or focus of GW2.

Do you have any metrics how long the average player stays?
Doing the same content over and over in different difficulties is the exact opposite of smart.

There are 3 or more guilds in EU dedicated to raid training. It is actually really easy to find a group to train with if you want to. There is no need for difficulty settings for a training purpose. It would actually increase the gap.

Yes you need content that leads up to it. Not the same in different difficulties. T4 fractals and fractal CM is where it at. Why do fractals not provide training for mechanics?

The only metrics we have (GW2efficiency) actually shows that more people raid or have tried raids than reached lvl 100 fractals.

When HoT first came out her and myself included spent a lot of time exploring new content and leveling up masteries etc. I unlocked every elite spec before even looking at raiding. By the time I got around to looking for raids people were already asking to link completions. This has obviously gotten a lot worse now.

Regarding WoW I now you don’t consider LFR a ‘proper’ raid but for casual players the content is still a raid. Which is why I am asking for the different difficulty.

Raids are a significant part of the game nonetheless, if it wasn’t both you and I wouldn’t be here discussing it.

I am already in two raid training guilds, as I said its not impossible, however the hours that the training raids are done, and getting an actually spot in them is not always easy. Even though I do train some raids in this way, it would be much better if I could raid at the times I want to play and having the ability to train easily with more players.

Why would the gap increase if there were multiple difficulty levels?

Fractals do not provide training for it because its not the same raid, would you take someone who ran VG for a Deimos run and call them experienced? No

While they teach you to use your build while playing around instanced mechanics they do not teach you the specific instance. Which is why a difficulty with lower DPS checks and mechanic damage would help. So players can focus on learning the mechanics and getting a feel for the map. Once they do that they can focus on perfecting the rotation etc.

There is nothing that says all aspects of the raid has to be training in one go. Why do FPS players train aim separately rather than playing scrims all the time?

Why does GW2 have a training area to practice rotations in isolation?

You are correct I do not have any hard and fast metrics. The fact that more players have tried raids according to GW2efficiency doesn’t prove we don’t need difficulty levels.

Only GW2 devs potentially has access to the real metrics. All I hope to do is as a customer who has spent a lot on their product, have already bought the ultimate edition of POF is to provide feedback on their product. I hope that it will provide more clarity around the stats they see and at least help them analyse my spending and playing habits.

As I said before previously I took a long break, went and played WoW and FF 14 which I didn’t enjoy as much as GW2. I also know devs want to bring back a lot of old players, I have been trying to get my friend to come back and raids were something she explicitly mentioned.

Of course you could be correct and me and my friends could be in the minority and losing my sales for hard core raiders in the future might be worth it. The cost of developing easy mode might not be worth it and Raiders might be spending more money.

I just want to be sure that the devs take my point of view into consideration IF players like me who want an easier to access version of the raids are not in the minority and do form a material component of sales.

Supz.9836:

When HoT first came out her and myself included spent a lot of time exploring new content and leveling up masteries etc. I unlocked every elite spec before even looking at raiding. By the time I got around to looking for raids people were already asking to link completions. This has obviously gotten a lot worse now.

Regarding WoW I now you don’t consider LFR a ‘proper’ raid but for casual players the content is still a raid. Which is why I am asking for the different difficulty.

Raids are a significant part of the game nonetheless, if it wasn’t both you and I wouldn’t be here discussing it.

I am already in two raid training guilds, as I said its not impossible, however the hours that the training raids are done, and getting an actually spot in them is not always easy. Even though I do train some raids in this way, it would be much better if I could raid at the times I want to play and having the ability to train easily with more players.

Why would the gap increase if there were multiple difficulty levels?

Fractals do not provide training for it because its not the same raid, would you take someone who ran VG for a Deimos run and call them experienced? No

While they teach you to use your build while playing around instanced mechanics they do not teach you the specific instance. Which is why a difficulty with lower DPS checks and mechanic damage would help. So players can focus on learning the mechanics and getting a feel for the map. Once they do that they can focus on perfecting the rotation etc.

There is nothing that says all aspects of the raid has to be training in one go. Why do FPS players train aim separately rather than playing scrims all the time?

Why does GW2 have a training area to practice rotations in isolation?

You are correct I do not have any hard and fast metrics. The fact that more players have tried raids according to GW2efficiency doesn’t prove we don’t need difficulty levels.

Only GW2 devs potentially has access to the real metrics. All I hope to do is as a customer who has spent a lot on their product, have already bought the ultimate edition of POF is to provide feedback on their product. I hope that it will provide more clarity around the stats they see and at least help them analyse my spending and playing habits.

As I said before previously I took a long break, went and played WoW and FF 14 which I didn’t enjoy as much as GW2. I also know devs want to bring back a lot of old players, I have been trying to get my friend to come back and raids were something she explicitly mentioned.

Of course you could be correct and me and my friends could be in the minority and losing my sales for hard core raiders in the future might be worth it. The cost of developing easy mode might not be worth it and Raiders might be spending more money.

I just want to be sure that the devs take my point of view into consideration IF players like me who want an easier to access version of the raids are not in the minority and do form a material component of sales.

LFR does nothing for you other than seeing the content. Nobody will call you experienced after doing LFR as you can ignore most mechanics. Many groups want kill proof after the first two days in WoW after a raid release.

Relearn or forgetting something is harder than learning something completly new. If you played this easy mode and the mechanics are changed so you play the encounter differently than you would in normal mode, you have to relearn the boss while also trying to not execute it as you learned it while a complete newcomer just learn the boss. The mechanics will change as you can now already ignore some of them (green circles at VG, Cairn, last add at Deimos to a certain extend).

Fractals teach you the basics: dodging the right attacks, positioning so you don’t have to waste dodges. The raid mechanics are not that complex that you need to train for weeks in an easy mode.

There are no real DPS-checks in the game except Gorseval and Samarog CM. You die to mechanics long before the timer runs out. It is easier to learn a DPS rotation in a seperated area without stress and when you learned it you can apply it regardless the enviroment. You won’t execute it perfectly but deal more than enough damage to kill the boss.

The expansion is actually a really good time to start again, the raid compositions will change due the elite specialisations and when the next raid releases everyone is inexperienced and a lot of new groups will start.

Fractals proof the same as LFR in WoW did. Most people who play those modes just want to see the content once or twice and don’t progress through the difficulty scales. Nobody uses such a mode for training.

I think people that want an easy mode for training are a really small minority. Most just wanted legendary armor, not the raid and you can get it at Tuesday via WvW and sPvP. You can expect this topic to slow down and fade into the void.

Supz.9836:

Fractals do not provide training for it because its not the same raid, would you take someone who ran VG for a Deimos run and call them experienced? No

Here is a story about training and accessibility:
I’ve done every single Raid and have all Raid achievements and titles. I don’t have legendary armor because I’m lazy but I’m done with the Raid part of it

Yet I can’t find a fractal 100 cm group. All of them require completion to allow you to join them and since I can’t join a group to complete it in the first place I’m stuck. Nightmare CM was very similar although eventually random groups for it appeared but they were also rare (like training raids?).

If a training mode for Raids would make the normal raids more accessible then why isn’t that happening with Fractals? There are multiple versions of Shattered Observatory, including the regular fotm 100, yet they mean absolutely nothing for accessibility.

Don’t get me wrong, there are multiple merits for having an easier mode for Raids. It does have positive points and is something that could certainly help players. However, on the subject of normal mode accessibility, a training mode wouldn’t work as well as you think it would.

And let’s not get started on what happens if the community moves on to the normal difficulty and it gets harder (if not impossible) to get groups for training anyway. Or how such a training mode would struggle to get players to run it in the first place, if the rewards aren’t worth it.

An easy mode for training purposes alone is a waste of developer time and resources.

maddoctor.2738:

If a training mode for Raids would make the normal raids more accessible then why isn’t that happening with Fractals? There are multiple versions of Shattered Observatory, including the regular fotm 100, yet they mean absolutely nothing for accessibility.

Are there FotM rewards exclusive to highest level fractals plus CM, or is it the same rewards only with a better chance the harder it is designed to be?

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

If a training mode for Raids would make the normal raids more accessible then why isn’t that happening with Fractals? There are multiple versions of Shattered Observatory, including the regular fotm 100, yet they mean absolutely nothing for accessibility.

Are there FotM rewards exclusive to highest level fractals plus CM, or is it the same rewards only with a better chance the harder it is designed to be?

There’s a few unique rewards to CM.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Are there FotM rewards exclusive to highest level fractals plus CM, or is it the same rewards only with a better chance the harder it is designed to be?

Both. You get more of the same rewards at higher levels but there are also unique rewards, exclusive to higher levels.
Nightmare fractal achievements award unique weapon skins
Shattered Observatory CM gives access to the unique Celestial Infusion
Infused rings start dropping from chests at Tier 2 and at the same time you get a chance at rare ascended materials (like Bolt of Damask)
At Tier 3 you start getting Golden Fractal relics, Ascended Accessories and the Endless Fractal Tonic
Tier 4 just makes some of the reward uncommon instead of rare

Supz.9836:

Honestly from a Revenue point of view for GW2 I think it makes a lot of sense to add a ‘easy’ and ‘normal’ difficulty to the current existing raids.

You’ll have very hard time defending this statement. I don’t see any obvious market advantage to adding these – it would simply make people complaining about raids complain about them with a different reason – but I can clearly see related expenses in the form of paid development time.

Supz.9836:

Taking these 3 factors into account, i.e lower spend on GEMs, lower percentage of player base and only a portion of raiders (I don’t think all current raiders are against multiple difficulty settings only a portion would be). The loss of revenue from implementing this would be minimal.

Wrong. First and foremost, “easy mode raids” aren’t going to increase the playerbase. They aren’t even going to reduce the rate at which it diminishes over time. The reason is quite simple – this is content created around the assumption it is fun for the players because it is challenging. Take that away, and you have only two possibilities.

1. Keep the rewards from normal mode, which will be totally unfair to raiders and will make a lot of them quit. These are veteran players, who spend a lot of time in the game. And no, we don’t only buy stuff with gold. The casual players, on the other hand, are going to play for a while until they realize they need to grind for months for the legendary armor and lose interest. I would expect the overall result on the revenues to be negative.

2. Reduce the rewards accordingly, which will cause the players who complain about easy mode to try them once and never touch them again, because they’d be playing pointless content which isn’t rewarding enough. The impact on the player base will be minimal, the revenues generated non-existent and the expenses very real.

Supz.9836:

On the other hand I know plenty of players who I use to play with during the release of HoT who have quit due to lack of accessibility to raids.

What someone thinks is why he quits the game and why he actually does it are two very different things.

Supz.9836:

I honestly wonder if the time and resources devs spent on developing raids in its current form vrs the net increase/decrease in real world money spent on the game was profitable. Given how many players who have told me they have either quit or taken a long break from the game due to raids I would imagine they actually lost money by making raids so hard to access.

There’s a very simple answer to that. Do ANet plan on releasing more raids? They do. Then the raids have been a success. Game development is a business. Nobody throws resources at obvious failures, doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a miracle. If something fails, you either cancel it or change it. They aren’t doing either of these.

Supz.9836:

Let me be clear I am not saying remove raids with the current difficulty. Challenging content is good. However not having steps to learn the mechanics and progress your way to the more challenging content makes no sense.

Raids do have that. They introduce mechanics incrementally so the players can get familiar with them, and then combine said mechanics to create the actual challenge. It is a much better system than fractals, which simply let you faceroll the content until you build up your AR. Why bother learning the mechanics when you can ignore them? See all the complaints how hard the new fractal is? It’s not hard. People just aren’t used to learning mechanics. And that’s exactly because of the fractal tier system. This is also the reason why fractals aren’t the stepping stone to the raids, by the way. In terms of difficulty, Nightmare and Shattered Observatory challenge modes are comparable, even harder than many raid bosses. But players prefer to complain how hard they are instead of learn them, because they are used to facerolling content, they are expecting to faceroll the new content and they aren’t happy when they can’t. Here’s a radical thought – perhaps you shouldn’t be able to faceroll challenging content, should you?

Supz.9836:

Fractals do it very well as you progress to harder and harder content, why not for raids?

Fractals are NOT a stepping stone into raids because you DO NOT learn actual raid mechanics, having an easier version of the raids, with a higher chance of success would encourage more players to form the group of 10 players required to go and try learn a raid.

In the long run raids can be a very good thing for the game if the difficulty modes are added. Currently I think its one of the few things done very poorly in GW2 due to lack of difficulty settings.

Fractal’s difficulty between tiers is two fold… Older fractals simply have toned down stats and new ones have toned down mechanics. (i.e. Arkk doesn’t summon his eye beam at lower tiers, Encyclokickdsiisisis’s shatter combo only has one part instead of three, etc.)

Which would you propose for your easy mode raids? Because if you REALLY wanted them for an opportunity to train, neither of those things would help you…

Doing Sabetha without flame wall or cannons would do absolutely nothing to prepare you for a normal Sabetha group. It would do about as much preparing you for the actual raid as doing Octovine in AB would. Or, say it’s just scaled down… Sabetha has one half the hit points, so she dies in 3 minutes and all her incoming damage is reduced by half as well. While I guess this would give you an opportunity to fail the mechanics without dying, there’s also no incentive to learn them or practice keeping your dps up while doing them. It’d be just like dungeons—instead of learning the actual content, everyone would just stack and power creep it. (And if the rewards were even close to normal mode, almost nobody would do anything besides easymode—just like practically nobody does challenge mote after their first kill since the rewards are the same as regular after that.)

All I’m saying is let’s be honest with ourselves here, easy mode raids wouldn’t help train people, they’d just open the rewards to everyone—which is what you really want. All these posts are about feeling excluded… If they were really about learning the raids, in the time you’ve spent posting on the forums you could have watched videos of the fights, read the duly guide to learn the mechanics, and went into LFG and formed your own training run.

These cryings for “noob” mode on raids stopped being funny… Now it’s sad.

Holy crap this topic is still going?

Ramoth.9064:

Holy crap this topic is still going?

I guess it is, since a vocal minority of the playerbase still want to cry and whine about how difficult raids are

Feanor.2358:

runeblade.7514:

None of the advice the ‘raiders’ tips on how to join a raid are working for me.

So you either lack the time for it, or you aren’t dedicated enough. Which is perfectly fine, by the way.

I looked for a raid in my every waking moment using whatever tips for 3 months but I got tired of it. You could tell me to keep spending another 3 months to look for it, and I might get a raid. I still wouldn’t consider it accessible.

But whatever, no matter what I say, you rather stop people like me from enjoying raids from changes that would have zero effect to you.

Yobculture.5786:

Ramoth.9064:

Holy crap this topic is still going?

I guess it is, since a vocal minority of the playerbase still want to cry and whine about how difficult raids are

I wouldn’t know how difficult they are. Since no one wants to add me to their raid group because how inexperienced I am.

runeblade.7514:

Feanor.2358:

runeblade.7514:

None of the advice the ‘raiders’ tips on how to join a raid are working for me.

So you either lack the time for it, or you aren’t dedicated enough. Which is perfectly fine, by the way.

I looked for a raid in my every waking moment using whatever tips for 3 months but I got tired of it. You could tell me to keep spending another 3 months to look for it, and I might get a raid. I still wouldn’t consider it accessible.

But whatever, no matter what I say, you rather stop people like me from enjoying raids from changes that would have zero effect to you.

I find that hard to believe. 3 months after I became interested in raiding I was already past one training guild and pugging successfully most bosses every week. 3 months later I was in the exp static group I keep playing with to this moment. It is not because of some exceptional luck, it is because I actively sought both. Raiding is a dynamic process, players come and go all the time. My static has changed more than half its players since I joined it. Again, this is not an exception, as I see players I’ve raided with share the same experiences. So there are always opportunities to join raiding teams. It’s only up to you to make use of them.

Here’s my suggestion, dont worry its not as bad.

There will be hardcore and normal. Hardcore is the usual 10 man. Normal is 20 man raids.

Normal raids only consists two bosses, which will not lead to the final boss, you have to play hardcore for that. Want to fight Sabetha or Xera? gotta git gud and get into hardcore. However, all mechanics and difficulty will be the same, it will be the same outcome if you don’t do certain mechanics that will result in a wipe.

Normal raids can have 20 people into the raid. and rewards will only be given out after you clear both two bosses. for example, you have to kill both VG and Gorserval to get 1 LI and some magnetite shards, so that they can gear their ascended stuff before getting into hardcore and thats it. You wont get to progress anymore. It also allows people who done their hardcore raid to get into normal raids for extra LI.

To encourage players git gud for hardcore, inexperienced players will be given a “newbie” buff for bosses they never cleared before in hardcore mode. Upon a clear, everyone in squad will get an extra LI as a token of appreciation guiding new raiders.

keramatzmode.1906:

Here’s my suggestion, dont worry its not as bad.

There will be hardcore and normal. Hardcore is the usual 10 man. Normal is 20 man raids.

Normal raids only consists two bosses, which will not lead to the final boss, you have to play hardcore for that. Want to fight Sabetha or Xera? gotta git gud and get into hardcore. However, all mechanics and difficulty will be the same, it will be the same outcome if you don’t do certain mechanics that will result in a wipe.

Normal raids can have 20 people into the raid. and rewards will only be given out after you clear both two bosses. for example, you have to kill both VG and Gorserval to get 1 LI and some magnetite shards, so that they can gear their ascended stuff before getting into hardcore and thats it. You wont get to progress anymore. It also allows people who done their hardcore raid to get into normal raids for extra LI.

To encourage players git gud for hardcore, new layers will be given a “newbie” buff for bosses they never cleared before in hardcore mode. Upon a clear, everyone in squad will get an extra LI as a token of appreciation guiding new raiders.

Or they could just join the current raids and do those as we have no reason to lower difficulty what so ever.