Guild Wars 2

Aura of Sacrifice here.
Idea:
Dungeon Magic Find should be boosted based on the diversity of classes attending.

What is this I don’t even

It’s an attempt to incentivize diversity in party builds by increasing the likelihood of valuable items dropping from mobs in dungeons, otherwise known as a forlorn hope.

It won’t even put a dent on the trinity. Magic Find will insignificantly increase the likelihood of already very rare drops.

Players will still want to speedrun dungeons for tokens and money from killing bosses and completing it.

PS. I despise MF. It’s in my firm belief that it should only exist in the open world where you solo.

You already have fairly diverse teams.. You are now seeing Mesmer/2 Warriors/Ele/Guard.. the problem is it’s still the same classes everytime.

If you want diversity you either need to give the underdog class, something that makes them as useful as the main classes. Or change the boss dynamics so they are useful.

Ratty.5176:

Or change the boss dynamics so they are useful.

We’ve been through this debate plenty of time. The fact is that the best speedrun classes also have some of the best CC of the game so even making it CC intensive would not change group set ups. Necro and rangers in particular are the two classes that need some love. Even if you wanted a lot of blind for eg you still have no reason to take a necro when a thief has higher dps and can maintain perma blind, when an ele has blind included in the lightning hammer auto chain, when the dps guard can bring a lot of blind etc. Fact is most of the utility a necro and ranger can bring won’t make up for the fact that they suck at everything else.

I agree with Nikaido. But original post is a very bad suggestion, what if I have a bunch of friends who happen to be 2 rangers and 2 thieves or even 4 of the same class, should I be penalized for this group setup, also this is very much against the design philosophy of take the person you want not the class which was implemented very early in the design process to get rid of the traditional trinity. The fact that a new trinity of Warr, Mesm, Guard has been born in GW2 is a question of PvE balance and should be remedied through a class and skill balance changes not through some quirky forced rainbow class setup. (Also I hope that the upcoming update fixes some of this as I am sick of people asking for zerk warrs for every dungeon run)

Zelothe.9234:

I agree with Nikaido. But original post is a very bad suggestion, what if I have a bunch of friends who happen to be 2 rangers and 2 thieves or even 4 of the same class, should I be penalized for this group setup, also this is very much against the design philosophy of take the person you want not the class which was implemented very early in the design process to get rid of the traditional trinity. The fact that a new trinity of Warr, Mesm, Guard has been born in GW2 is a question of PvE balance and should be remedied through a class and skill balance changes not through some quirky forced rainbow class setup. (Also I hope that the upcoming update fixes some of this as I am sick of people asking for zerk warrs for every dungeon run)

If every class offered the exact same thing and group composition wasn’t a factor, what would be the point of different classes? In an environment where variety is a factor, there will always be something optimal to pick. That’s just reality.

^^ I don’t know what you mean by “exact same thing,” but if I understand correctly you mean fulfilling roles. For example, what warrior bring to the party is arguably “damage.” (there are banners/vuln, but we’ll disregard those for argument’s sake).

If Anet’s plan holds true, other non-warrior class built for damage, fulfilling the role DPS in a party, should be able to match those of warrior. This doesn’t mean a guardian can since it’s an innately defensive class. IE. thief and yet it’s regarded as inferior of that of warrior in damage dealing. What about ranger, where does it fit? Engi? Necro?

Yenn.9185:

^^ I don’t know what you mean by “exact same thing,” but if I understand correctly you mean fulfilling roles. For example, what warrior bring to the party is arguably “damage.” (there are banners/vuln, but we’ll disregard those for argument’s sake).

If Anet’s plan holds true, other non-warrior class built for damage, fulfilling the role DPS in a party, should be able to match those of warrior. This doesn’t mean a guardian can since it’s an innately defensive class. IE. thief and yet it’s regarded as inferior of that of warrior in damage dealing. What about ranger, where does it fit? Engi? Necro?

True balance will never exist, and theorycrafters will always find the best setup (even if it’s only 0,0000001% better), since classes aren’t equal. No, not even in the same roles. They can’t be equal, even if the margin is extremely low (in this case it isn’t) and devs can try to reduce the disparity. The only way to achieve perfect balance is to remove any variety and give everyone the same skills. That was it.

Some want to play the strongest class in the most optimized gear possible, even if it’s just a small increase (and it isn’t). Nobody can force things down other people’s throats: if they don’t want to take a suboptimal class, it’s their decision and it deserves respect. Same with any other team. I have the right to ask for a specific party if I don’t break any rule while doing so. Anyone has.
^ a thought about all these nonsense suggestions to force people into something they don’t want. It won’t work.
P.S. One day I’ll make a post that requires every pug joining to have pink armor, else they get a kick. Just because I’m that stubborn.

True balance doesn’t exists assuming we are doing the same content. Admittedly 4 warriors 1 mes is the perfect way of doing CoF1, which is fine. But we have 9 dungeons which can all be optimally tackled using just 3 classes. Grab your melee, stack and burn it down. Other classes that excels at condition damage, range or control are left behind.

I think the problem lies on both class balance and dungeon design. Don’t get me wrong, I have almost 6 80’s and I like smooth runs. I don’t farm CoF though.

I imagine it would then just be – Warrior, Guard, Mes, Ele, Engie/Thief. Necro and Ranger would still be left out because they are useless.

Dolan.3071:

I imagine it would then just be – Warrior, Guard, Mes, Ele, Engie/Thief. Necro and Ranger would still be left out because they are useless.

It’s probably going to change to this on our runs anyway.

We’re already running Guard, Ele, 2 War, Mesmer. One of those warriors can be replaced by a competent thief any time and with the update to eles, we might change to Guardian, 2 ele, War, Mes instead.

Although the theorycrafting and build making is mainly going to be up to Nikaido and the others, because I’m leaving till August.

Which is sad though, I like theorycrafting…

Bright.9160:

Dolan.3071:

I imagine it would then just be – Warrior, Guard, Mes, Ele, Engie/Thief. Necro and Ranger would still be left out because they are useless.

It’s probably going to change to this on our runs anyway.

We’re already running Guard, Ele, 2 War, Mesmer. One of those warriors can be replaced by a competent thief any time and with the update to eles, we might change to Guardian, 2 ele, War, Mes instead.

Although the theorycrafting and build making is mainly going to be up to Nikaido and the others, because I’m leaving till August.

Which is sad though, I like theorycrafting…

Yarp, Warrior’s DPS is taking a small hit, might be enough to warrant swapping us out for a thief or DPS guard. Haha whilst I doubt I’ll be putting as much thought and effort into it as you guys I’m looking forward to today/tomorrow’s patch (it’s almost the 26th here, I forget how far behind America is :P

Dolan.3071:

Yarp, Warrior’s DPS is taking a small hit, might be enough to warrant swapping us out for a thief or DPS guard. Haha whilst I doubt I’ll be putting as much thought and effort into it as you guys I’m looking forward to today/tomorrow’s patch (it’s almost the 26th here, I forget how far behind America is :P

The Axe autoattack chain’s DPS was increased overall I believe, but it depends on Triple Chop (which isn’t really a problem). You’ve also got access to Heightened Focus with an Axe build, and Axe abilities have cooldown reduction when traited accordingly, and you can use Eviscerate a bit more throughout fights and gain Adrenaline back fairly quickly. So no, Warrior DPS isn’t really taking a hit. Warriors also bring party-wide Fury and Might (as well as Banners) so I don’t see Thieves and Guardians replacing them.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dolan.3071:

Yarp, Warrior’s DPS is taking a small hit, might be enough to warrant swapping us out for a thief or DPS guard. Haha whilst I doubt I’ll be putting as much thought and effort into it as you guys I’m looking forward to today/tomorrow’s patch (it’s almost the 26th here, I forget how far behind America is :P

The Axe autoattack chain’s DPS was increased overall I believe, but it depends on Triple Chop (which isn’t really a problem). You’ve also got access to Heightened Focus with an Axe build, and Axe abilities have cooldown reduction when traited accordingly, and you can use Eviscerate a bit more throughout fights and gain Adrenaline back fairly quickly. So no, Warrior DPS isn’t really taking a hit. Warriors also bring party-wide Fury and Might (as well as Banners) so I don’t see Thieves and Guardians replacing them.

Did you consider you would lose Attack of Opportunity (or Berserker’s Power) if you choose to go deep in discipline for Heightened Focus? I doubt I will want to take that trade myself but we will see.

Yenn.9185:

It won’t even put a dent on the trinity. Magic Find will insignificantly increase the likelihood of already very rare drops.

Give 1000% MF per class.

Ok, lets run 1 Thief, 1 Warrior, 1 Mesmer, 1 Guardian and 1 LH Ele.
Fail.

Konu.1826:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dolan.3071:

Yarp, Warrior’s DPS is taking a small hit, might be enough to warrant swapping us out for a thief or DPS guard. Haha whilst I doubt I’ll be putting as much thought and effort into it as you guys I’m looking forward to today/tomorrow’s patch (it’s almost the 26th here, I forget how far behind America is :P

The Axe autoattack chain’s DPS was increased overall I believe, but it depends on Triple Chop (which isn’t really a problem). You’ve also got access to Heightened Focus with an Axe build, and Axe abilities have cooldown reduction when traited accordingly, and you can use Eviscerate a bit more throughout fights and gain Adrenaline back fairly quickly. So no, Warrior DPS isn’t really taking a hit. Warriors also bring party-wide Fury and Might (as well as Banners) so I don’t see Thieves and Guardians replacing them.

Did you consider you would lose Attack of Opportunity (or Berserker’s Power) if you choose to go deep in discipline for Heightened Focus? I doubt I will want to take that trade myself but we will see.

30/0/0/10/30 doesn’t lose Berserker’s Power.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

30/0/0/10/30 doesn’t lose Berserker’s Power.

Dunno, wouldn’t 30/10/0/0/30 be more useful for the vuln stacking?

You’ll generally only have Fury, Might and Protection up 100%, with 1 or 2 occasional extra boons. So that’s 6-10% extra damage, for you personally.

Whereas, if you can’t maintain 25 vulnerability stacks, you lose those damage % over the whole party.

Bright.9160:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

30/0/0/10/30 doesn’t lose Berserker’s Power.

Dunno, wouldn’t 30/10/0/0/30 be more useful for the vuln stacking?

You’ll generally only have Fury, Might and Protection up 100%, with 1 or 2 occasional extra boons. So that’s 6-10% extra damage, for you personally.

Whereas, if you can’t maintain 25 vulnerability stacks, you lose those damage % over the whole party.

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

hmm. would the 30/0/0/10/30 build be better then the 30/25/0/10/5 build? since you lose the 10% dmg from the arms line for some crit chance, crit dmg and cool down reduction. is that really worth? (have not tested so i have actually no idea >.<)

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

I’m guessing you’re running 15 in Zeal then.

We’re currently working with a 0/15/0/25/30 build (props to Nikaido) to spam Fire Fields for our ele.

Dunno if we’re losing vulnerability too much though, people should test that…

Bright.9160:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

I’m guessing you’re running 15 in Zeal then.

We’re currently working with a 0/15/0/25/30 build (props to Nikaido) to spam Fire Fields for our ele.

Dunno if we’re losing vulnerability too much though, people should test that…

Dont think we are. The warrior without OMM can maintain 10-14 on his own anyways. So with the rest of the group should be fine i think.

Bright.9160:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

I’m guessing you’re running 15 in Zeal then.

We’re currently working with a 0/15/0/25/30 build (props to Nikaido) to spam Fire Fields for our ele.

Dunno if we’re losing vulnerability too much though, people should test that…

30/30/0/0/10

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Bright.9160:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

I’m guessing you’re running 15 in Zeal then.

We’re currently working with a 0/15/0/25/30 build (props to Nikaido) to spam Fire Fields for our ele.

Dunno if we’re losing vulnerability too much though, people should test that…

30/30/0/0/10

^
Troll.

Nikaido.3457:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Bright.9160:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Empowered Allies and Empower. The Guardian build I’m messing with should be able to maintain vulnerability.

I’m guessing you’re running 15 in Zeal then.

We’re currently working with a 0/15/0/25/30 build (props to Nikaido) to spam Fire Fields for our ele.

Dunno if we’re losing vulnerability too much though, people should test that…

30/30/0/0/10

^
Troll.

No. Hammer and Sword / Focus.

Nikaido.3457:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

30/30/0/0/10

^
Troll.

Brasil? No… He would never try to troll us.

So I take it you are going balls deep into mesmer cond removal ? Which would mean, having to take mesmers for FOTM.. I’d rather take another war or guard.

I’d rather think you’re trolling.

Nikaido.3457:

So I take it you are going balls deep into mesmer cond removal ? Which would mean, having to take mesmers for FOTM.. I’d rather take another war or guard.

I’d rather think you’re trolling.

Shattered Conditions is only 5 extra trait points. I don’t do Fractals at all anymore, though, but I’ve never had a problem with Mesmers. I think they are fine.

Brazil’s new build.

Magic find op.

/15

Bright.9160:

Brazil’s new build.

You had me at revenge of the fallen.

Nikaido.3457:

Bright.9160:

Brazil’s new build.

You had me at revenge of the fallen.

That definitely isn’t my build.

You laugh now Bright, but this build will annihilate everything you hold dear, it will kittenfury all over your sorry excuse for guardian builds.

rangers and necros will still be relatively useless. engineers are… engineers. optimized team comps will still stick to a certain meta

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Konu.1826:

Did you consider you would lose Attack of Opportunity (or Berserker’s Power) if you choose to go deep in discipline for Heightened Focus? I doubt I will want to take that trade myself but we will see.

30/0/0/10/30 doesn’t lose Berserker’s Power.

I never said you would have to give up both, just that you will have to give up either Attack of opportunity or Berserker’s power in order to get Heightened focus. In your example you are losing Attack of opportunity.

Konu.1826:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Konu.1826:

Did you consider you would lose Attack of Opportunity (or Berserker’s Power) if you choose to go deep in discipline for Heightened Focus? I doubt I will want to take that trade myself but we will see.

30/0/0/10/30 doesn’t lose Berserker’s Power.

I never said you would have to give up both, just that you will have to give up either Attack of opportunity or Berserker’s power in order to get Heightened focus. In your example you are losing Attack of opportunity.

Yeah. I’m going to have to see about reworking builds. Mainly because Axe is boring.

PVP skill splits. There’s a Reason GW1 had them (it was the dungeons)
/thread

What warriors currently need are useful adept traits in Strength and Discipline…
This update ridiculously favors pure axe builds, traitwise.

Dub.1273:

What warriors currently need are useful adept traits in Strength and Discipline…
This update ridiculously favors pure axe builds, traitwise.

You wanna run your sword build, huh?

ilr.9675:

PVP skill splits. There’s a Reason GW1 had them (it was the dungeons)
/thread

^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry but Anet prefers to be the special snowflake game, they don’t need silly things like common sense pffft.

swiftpaw.6397:

ilr.9675:

PVP skill splits. There’s a Reason GW1 had them (it was the dungeons)
/thread

^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry but Anet prefers to be the special snowflake game, they don’t need silly things like common sense pffft.

Snowflakes… I remember Wintersday.

Icy….wut u did ther