Guild Wars 2

Hi there, community

EDIT since so many of you CANT read, this isnt about me, Im a dungeon master and run most dungeons daily….. this is for YOU.

It has come to my attention that lately most dungeon parties I come across to seem to be adopting this trend, even if not specifically stating it on the tittle, they go tend to kick anyone who isnt lvl 80 and/or experienced with the dungeon. Now, you might say that Im typing this because it has happened to me. This is not the case, I ave had dungeon master and have run dungeons on a daily basis for many, many months, but this issue seems to be affecting the community more than you think, specially with the new horde of new players coming in.

Here is my PSA; do NOT reject those who are attempting dungeons for the first time. Its ok if it is a guy that just started yesterday and barely have any knowledge of the game, but if it is a person who has been playing for a bit, and have a clue, explain to him/her the main mechanics and spots you camp, take the time to do this now, and you will have more people to do dungeons with in the future. By driving away new players you are reducing an already decimated community due to previous episodes of this behavior. Explain to them kindly why berserker is the best gear, why it is necessary and how they can play their game when they are alone, dont kick them because they have bad gear. Explain some of the most unforgiving boss mechanics, explains the spots you go to, explain anything that might think it is very important for a successful run. Chances are, they will enjoy it, learn from it and do it again and right next time. By shoveling away these players you gain nothing and lose a lot, in a very directly way!

I hope you all have a great time, and lets increase the dungeon community, not decrease it!

Or, find people who aren’t elitist and have fun. That’s what I do.

As i finished typing this I got 3 new players, lvl 4x-6x in p3 AC….it will be a long noon!

Welcome to mmo’s. Every mmo I have ever played has abused the kick feature. All I can suggest is prepare yourself to be kicked and if it happens do not let it bother you. It’s the nature of the beast when online gaming.

One thing I like about GW2 is, if you do get kicked there is a lot of other things to do while waiting on a new group. With other mmo’s i have played, if you get kicked, that’s it until you can get into another group which could take hours.

ProphetSword.5427:

Or, find people who aren’t elitist and have fun. That’s what I do.

that IS the problem, even “non-elitists” per say are doing this nowadays, most people would rather finish their run a few mintues earlier and face the consiequences than get new potential players for future runs…

I suggested a dungeon split in the horizontal thread, if you like it go upvote it in the first page. I suggested a normal 20 min dungeon for all paths, and a “Vanquishing mode” for elite dungeon players. It helps newbies (or low levels) to get to do dungeons, while still maintaining a clear difference for people who mainly do dungeons.

ArenaNet might want both casual and hardcore games, but they shouldn’t force them to play together!

Just take it upon yourself and go and watch a walkthrough video >.>

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

All I can suggest is prepare yourself to be kicked and if it happens do not let it bother you. It’s the nature of the beast when online gaming.

How I can tell you didnt read my post.

Please read, this isnt about me, I have dungeon master and run dungeons every day, this is for the rest of the people, hence the PSA.

Just take it upon yourself and go and watch a walkthrough video >.>

you guys really dont like reading, do you? >.>

Fortus.6175:

ProphetSword.5427:

Or, find people who aren’t elitist and have fun. That’s what I do.

that IS the problem, even “non-elitists” per say are doing this nowadays, most people would rather finish their run a few mintues earlier and face the consiequences than get new potential players for future runs…

Except not everyone is like that. I wouldn’t kick someone for being new. But, the problem with your post is that you’re likely not going to reach the people who are doing it. The forums only represent a very small portion of the population in the game. So, it’s not likely to change.

I was giving a suggestion on how to be a better player for those who haven’t done a specific dungeon before. If you watch and understand a walkthrough you’re fine to go with an experienced only group. Some people just take everything so personally.

From your response I suspect you’re just trying to start an argument instead of actually trying to help people. Have fun with that.

I’m fine with your sentiment, OP, but I think that it isn’t really your place to tell people who they have to have in their parties.

Today, I ran a noob through TA. A Ranger. He wasn’t amazing, but he listened and things were fine. But the run would have gone quicker with a better class/player.

I just feel like it might be better form to encourage people to teach noobs in other ways, not telling people that they have to for some reason.

Here is my PSA. Do NOT care about what other people are doing with their parties and instead make your own.

By shoving away these players, the person reserves their right to dictate who is in their party. Not everyone is interested in taking the extra time every run to help others. Call it heartless but some people just don’t have the time to spend every dungeon run. If you really want to help noobs, just make your own party, you’ll have 0 luck telling other what to do with theirs.

Sometimes people just want smooth runs. Making every run that you do “noobs welcome” would get very tiring very quickly.

Well it all comes down to time commitment and we slap 80 on the lfg to save time during the run as the scaling in most dungeons is tough. Party all Level 35 in AC likely take an age to complete and not loads of fun. Sure if there is nobody to play with some of us will invest the time in teaching new people but otherwise we don’t need the grief 90% of the time. But you do learn from weaker parties and become a better player from it sometimes, if you consider it an investment.

Why does this even need a PSA? While I agree that everybody could also be a little nicer to each other in general, who are you to force people to group together?

Certain playstyles just do not mesh well, so just let everybody find others with similar playstyles, rather than forcing the lowbies and newbies onto the speedrun groups. By doing so, nobody is going to have a good time. kitten ing both groups of people off is not a good way to expand the dungeon community, if that’s what you’re going for.

Some people just want a quick run to get their gold and tokens, and don’t want to teach a class of dungeon 101. If you are an up-lvl start your own LFG or join a “Exp anyone welcome” group.

my issue is not new players

my issue is ppl who don’t know wtf they are doing and refuse to communicate

simply example that sadly happend quite few times

party member: (runs like a chicken around instead of sitting on his designated spot so warrior could do gate in cof p1 causing us to fail obviously)

me: do you know what to do?
party member: (silence)
me: it is ok if you are new, just say it…
party member: (silence)

what should i do in that situation?

as for uplvs, i was uplv myself and i ran my own dungeons

as for fractals, sry but not gonna take people that have less than 50 AR for lv 49 fractal, that is just given by game mechanics

I currently level a warrior. All I do is AC p3 again and again. Sometimes a CM p1. Well, I have to say that the number without a clue in non-80 runs is far more lower than people I play with in 80-only runs. Those new guys, even if they don’t answer, they do what you say and it goes quick. I never ever expect a direct answer to a question I ask, because I know they won’t reply, but I also know they read and they do what you say… at least, if you’re friendly.

Cynz.9437:

my issue is not new players

my issue is ppl who don’t know wtf they are doing and refuse to communicate

simply example that sadly happend quite few times

I have to agree with this. In my experience it’s the new players who shoot themselves in the foot. Most of the time when I see a guy with around 1000 AP join my team I already know we need to lend him a hand, but will they say anything? Of course not. He will just keep quiet (sometimes even refusing he’s doing it for the first time) until the whole team get’s wiped out.

I’m usually supportive and won’t kick for every little mistake but the hypocrisy and arrogance of certain players has led me to make titles stating “Lvl80 Experienced Pls”. Even then it’s not uncommon that people can not read and are either not level 80 or inexperienced.

This is NOT JUST about me, this is for everyone.

Do NOT tell people to change the way they form their OWN group. If you want to have non-80s, fine. Form YOUR OWN group.

Their group, their rules.

First of all, this is really only an issue with AC. As it has a very low level requirment (35), yet the difficulty is on par and in most cases above the other dungeons.

Secondly it doesn’t make me or anyone else elitist to want a full group of 80’s to go through a dungeon. It just depends on your goals for that run.

Some of us don’t have a whole lot of time to play and we just want to complete a quick before having to log off. If I have 30 minutes to complete a path I am now going to allow lower levels into the group that I am creating.

If I have a lot of time one day and I just feel like having fun, teaching and taking my time through the run, I will go on my guardian so I can carry better and let who ever wants to join my group.

Similairily when I am playing a lower level alt I simply don’t join explorer dungeon runs unless they are will my guild.

OP it is not your place or anyone elses to tell others who they should play with or try to obligate players to play with lower level characters. Many of these lower level characters are not new players, they are alts that want easy levels and to be carried through the dungeon.

Also, it takes a certain kind of person to be able to each a low level character through a potentially difficult dungeon. Obligating players to include low levels in their groups could be more of a negitive expirience for a new player then being booted up front.

Consider these things when looking down on us from your high horse in white armor.

The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !

Fror.2163:

The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !

This is just symantics. I suggest you read your posts before sending them.

“not telling how to play, telling you how you should play.”

That is one in the same friend. I am telling him that it is not his place to tell me how I should play, I’m also advising that his well intentioned ‘suggestion’ may do more harm then good.

I’ve seen more then a few players get very ugly toward inexpirenced in dungeons, especially AC. Making a blanket statement that players should not reject these lower levels, is to me, ill advised.

Simply put, the players that are already excpeting these low levels into their groups are the right players to be doing so;

those who are not, are not.

CryxTryx.9208:

Fror.2163:

The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !

This is just symantics. I suggest you read your posts before sending them.

“not telling how to play, telling you how you should play.”

That is one in the same friend. I am telling him that it is not his place to tell me how I should play, I’m also advising that his well intentioned ‘suggestion’ may do more harm then good.

I’ve seen more then a few players get very ugly toward inexpirenced in dungeons, especially AC. Making a blanket statement that players should not reject these lower levels, is to me, ill advised.

If you quote me or respond to one sentence I wrote, don’t deliberately cut the sentences where it suits you.

Since you did what you did, I assume you’re here to argue without reading what people write. So with hope you’ve not already pressed the reply button and cut this part, good luck with proper arguing in the future.

The worst is probably that you say I’m playing with semantics (when it actually matters, for once) and you play with the lowest level of semantics ever.

This isn’t a PSA nor is it reddit.

Fror.2163:

The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !

I understand the message behind OP – but it all boils down to one thing: OP’s trying to dictate players what to do.

And yes, we’re free to agree or not, just as we’re free to bring only level 80s. In short, it makes no sense to point this and campaign for it. Level 80s will be faster than lower levels if skills and experiences for the group are the same.

I give up. People just can’t read/understand/see further than their nose.

Really, the only problem I have is when I put some subset of “lvl80”,“experienced”,“know the path” and someone who isn’t 80 or experienced joins. That’s an instant kick because they couldn’t read and is not our problem, but theirs. On a side note, the amount of people who join a fractal where “45+ AR” is in the description and then they ask “What’s AR?” after they die to agony is ridiculous.

Fror.2163:

CryxTryx.9208:

Fror.2163:

The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !

This is just symantics. I suggest you read your posts before sending them.

“not telling how to play, telling you how you should play.”

That is one in the same friend. I am telling him that it is not his place to tell me how I should play, I’m also advising that his well intentioned ‘suggestion’ may do more harm then good.

I’ve seen more then a few players get very ugly toward inexpirenced in dungeons, especially AC. Making a blanket statement that players should not reject these lower levels, is to me, ill advised.

If you quote me or respond to one sentence I wrote, don’t deliberately cut the sentences where it suits you.

Since you did what you did, I assume you’re here to argue without reading what people write. So with hope you’ve not already pressed the reply button and cut this part, good luck with proper arguing in the future.

The worst is probably that you say I’m playing with semantics (when it actually matters, for once) and you play with the lowest level of semantics ever.

Seriously?

Here is your entire message “The OP is not telling you how to play, he’s telling you how you should play for a better community. You’re still free to agree or not. Learn the difference !”

It doesn’t contain a whole lot more then what I cut. And it doesn’t change a thing.

No matter how much Anet would like you to believe so, this is not Carebear wars 2

I couldn’t agree with the OP more. I love this game and I would like to see it grow. To see this game grow you have to be welcoming to new players so they continue to play and hopefully they’ll introduce their friends to the game.

I don’t mind new people coming into my dungeons but sometimes I don’t want to spend my whole evening running dungeons, in which case I will throw up “80’s experienced only”. For example, I’m in the process of gearing my engineer up with full dire gear because I enjoy WvW fights. As much fun as the CoE dungeon is, after running all 3 paths everyday for the past week or to get all the tokens necessary for a full set of dire gear I do not want to spend hours on these runs. I want to get in, get out, and go do something that I haven’t been grinding out for a week (on a side note, Dire gear is fantastic for an engi and I highly recommend it for any engi’s out there who likes to WvW)

Maybe people would be more welcoming to newer players more often if ANYONE would ever read lfg posts. I can’t tell you how many times I put “speed run”, “80’s only”, “know the path”, blah blah…. and don’t get what I ask for.

For example. CoE p1 the other day. Put something like “know the path, speed run”. What do I get? An entire group who doesn’t know what 1-4 means. I even said right before going into the room: “1-4, stack at side of panel after 1 and i’ll defend at 4”. What do I get? A group who ends up doing 1-1-1-1-1 and not stacking on the side of the panel. Seriously? As soon as more than 50% of people read the lfg posts and actually respect them, I will take more time to help others.

1-4 isnt a lot of information to someone who may have run the path a few times but not be 100% clued up on what the mechanics are. It also relies on you knowing they know what 1-4 means. Simply ask them if they know what to do, then state a plan of attack. Makes things a whole lot easier and smoother when everyone is on the same page.

Also non-english speakers populate the servers, so your LFG notation is not guaranteed to be understood no matter what you write.

But here is the thing, how is a new player supposed to GET experienced at the content if a guiding hand is not there to show them the ropes? I mean I took a look at LFG earlier and the listings for CoE & fractals 0-10. All of the listings stated “experienced only”, “speed-run” or “Wars only” with 10+ listings for each.

I have absolutely no problem taking new players through any piece of content ive done, or even not so new players who haven’t done specific content yet. All I ask is that they tell me it’s new to them so I can explain to them and get everything going properly.

And one last point; Stop kicking players as soon as they join without a word. I main a ranger but I have 4 other characters I can pick from to do content. When I join a team, and Im with a class you dont need, or want just say so and Ill change over to an alt. To many times now Ive joined a party and been kicked without a word, just because I have a ranger. NEWS FLASH PEOPLE; Not everyone is a bearbow, and wet behind the ears.

Lexandro.1456:

But here is the thing, how is a new player supposed to GET experienced at the content if a guiding hand is not there to show them the ropes? I mean I took a look at LFG earlier and the listings for CoE & fractals 0-10. All of the listings stated “experienced only”, “speed-run” or “Wars only” with 10+ listings for each.

What did people do at the start of the game without any experienced players to hold their precious little hands? Gee, I dunno..Maybe made their own group?
Used their friends and guild list?

And now they have access to detailed guides and builds, youtube videos and streams, an ingame lfg system… imo these young whippersnappers have it too good.

Oh and yes, I will kick players without a word, that’s what they get for not reading the very clear party description and joining anyway.

NEWSFLASH- There is an overwhelming amount of pugs that are actually on bowbear level of bad.

Here is a guide to making parties old-school. Now you need only place it in the ingame lfg. http://youtu.be/1nCWHb8JamU

Lexandro.1456:

1-4 isnt a lot of information to someone who may have run the path a few times but not be 100% clued up on what the mechanics are. It also relies on you knowing they know what 1-4 means. Simply ask them if they know what to do, then state a plan of attack. Makes things a whole lot easier and smoother when everyone is on the same page.

If you I put “know the path”, you should know what 1-4 means. And if you don’t, you should speak up before going into the room. I don’t mind explaining, but silence which leads to 1-1-1-1-1 is completely unacceptable when the lfg says “speed run, know the path”.

Lexandro.1456:

Also non-english speakers populate the servers, so your LFG notation is not guaranteed to be understood no matter what you write.

So, what you are saying is that I shouldn’t write anything and let anyone join because they don’t know English very well?

Lexandro.1456:

But here is the thing, how is a new player supposed to GET experienced at the content if a guiding hand is not there to show them the ropes? I mean I took a look at LFG earlier and the listings for CoE & fractals 0-10. All of the listings stated “experienced only”, “speed-run” or “Wars only” with 10+ listings for each.

I have no problem running paths with inexperienced players as long as they speak up about it. Most people who ask for help and want to learn get the job done the first time because they listen and follow instructions. Why would anyone want to wipe 15 times in a row, because people don’t know what to do and don’t respond in party chat when you ask if they know what to do?

Lexandro.1456:

I have absolutely no problem taking new players through any piece of content ive done, or even not so new players who haven’t done specific content yet. All I ask is that they tell me it’s new to them so I can explain to them and get everything going properly.

Exactly. As I said above, I said “1-4, stack and I’ll defend”, if you don’t know what that means, ask. That seemingly never happens.

Lexandro.1456:

And one last point; Stop kicking players as soon as they join without a word. I main a ranger but I have 4 other characters I can pick from to do content. When I join a team, and Im with a class you dont need, or want just say so and Ill change over to an alt. To many times now Ive joined a party and been kicked without a word, just because I have a ranger. NEWS FLASH PEOPLE; Not everyone is a bearbow, and wet behind the ears.

I really don’t think I have ever kicked someone from a group for not contributing/knowing the path/being bad. The only time I have ever kicked someone is for being afk for long periods without saying anything or for DCing and not being back in a timely fashion.

Wow such levels of hostility on a simple matter. Really chaps you need to take a look at yourselves and ask why you are so hostile.

Yes I have been there with players who are SO bad they make you want to tear hair out, we all have. In on instance I was on my ranger with a LB & S/H combo paired with a dual bearbow in a low level fractal pug who made me look like god walking the earth he was so bad (and i even aint that great with s/h either).

But at the same time there are a plethora of players out there who know what to do, but may have a different style than you are used too, or may be an adaptation of an existing guide or even may have read an outdated guide and not be up to speed on any changes made.

You have a clear description and someone joins. Do you instantly kick them the second they say hi to you in chat? Not even giving them the chance to ask you what character you want? When it could well be you have listed two class types? Or have said in LFG “EXP only” and they are experienced and just happen to be on an alt? I mean as I said ive done plenty of content in the game and have 5 filled slots. My alts have ascended stuffs, are tooled up with a gear/build that are expected. I just dont run around in “meta mode” 24/7.

No there is not an overwhelming number of bad players. There are bad players, there are also players who may not know all the nuances of a class or skill. Those second kind of players outnumber the bads easily.

Cranked my point about the language was simply that people may join that dont speak english to great, or read it to well or at all but could speak it enough on TS to pass muster. You cant guarantee just because you write it its understood, so take a second to talk to them pre-whatever.

PS; And no I never use a bear, under any circumstances whatsoever.

Experienced is someone who can complete dungeon with 916 /vit and stay alive, without relying on any glitches/exploits.

Fortus.6175:

EDIT since so many of you CANT read, this isnt about me, Im a dungeon master and run most dungeons daily….. this is for YOU.

Oh he’s a dungeon master. He must be amazing :o

That is the most moving thing I have ever read T_T

Lexandro.1456:

But here is the thing, how is a new player supposed to GET experienced at the content if a guiding hand is not there to show them the ropes?

You sound like all the new players are somehow handicapped and need a babysitter to teach them step by step what to do and what not. Well, we all were new one day, but the people that did dungeons in September-November 2012 had no one to babysit them through every encounter.

To answer your question, a good way to get experienced is to watch a guide (there is plenty of them available) and then keep running with all-welcome parties for as long as necessary. If said player is competent, one or two runs should be enough to be on the “experienced only” level. He may not melee Lupi yet, but at least he will pull his weight on COE/COF/SE speedruns.

Lexandro.1456:

No there is not an overwhelming number of bad players.

Actually, from all the MMOs I’ve ever played, GW2 has the skill-wise worst player base. This game rewards bad play generously and skilled play inadequately, so there is little reason for the masses to improve their skill level and get better.

This isn’t a welfare system.

It’s simple… If you’re a new player or first time doing a certain dungeon, join other people that are new.. Don’t join the “80 exp only” (which shows you can’t read the lfg post) and stop qqing.

At risk of sounding politically incorrect, my opinion is that if you aren’t level 80 with Exotic gear yet, wait until you are before doing dungeons, it’s a much more enjoyable experience for the player and the group. A new player that has hit level 80 with Exotic+ gear is a lesser burden than a level appropriate one. When I do AC story runs for daily achievements, I use my main, then swap to my alt at the end for the experience. I did this a week ago with my level 78 mesmer. Using level appropriate toons is a sacrifice that I don’t make.

When it comes to being new to the game, defer to the experience of the teammates and follow them. Stack in the corner with your teammates for the spider queen (AC), listen to your teammates and stand in a circle during the gate controller (CoF1), count down 3 2 1 before deactivating the laser beams (CoE1), etc. Being new to the game becomes a massive hindrance only when you stop listening to the guidance of more experienced players.

on the other day i asked for experienced daily runner in coe and there it comes a thief who couldn’t dodge/constant dying. we just left him dead most of time, there is no point of rezzing because things like dodging can only be learned from experience.

Yea we carried him through, but what about us? did he bother to read the lfg? no.

This post is hilarious, OP you want people to continue to ignore the expectations listed in some1’s lfg post? Wow. If you can’t even read a few words on an lfg post I don’t want to see how you handle the instance.

They’re actually kicked because they obviously can’t read.

On related news, all video guides on the internet have misteriously disappeared; newbies can’t get past Kholer and none is holding their hands while they bleed to death. Sad, but Jessica Fletcher is on the case, fear not.
Anyway.
I wonder how many firsttimers wait for others to spoonfeed them and are afraid of trying, as everyone did one year ago. It’s easier if someone carries you, yes, but that shouldn’t be your aim? Shouldn’t.
Do you think meeting the requirements of “experienced” in pugs is hard? It’s kitten easy, because among those who claim to be “experienced” there’s a good 90% who are frankly bad. All you need to do is watch a guide, run the dungeon a couple of times, and they’ll think you’re experienced as long as you’re aware and read the chat. A team will hardly kick a player mid run for a single mistake. Hell, I’m one of the most impatient and short-tempered people on earth, yet we never kick someone unless they cause multiple deaths to the team and don’t acknowledge it, or are plain rude/stupid.
That’s it.
Do go on though, sorry for interrupting you all. Fight for a better community!
Touching. I see you’ve made swifty cry. /awww