Guild Wars 2

the devs blew this one, this content was added before the genius idea of tickets, unfortunately they haven’t taken time to update it either, my fractal weapons are still waiting to get traded into somthing i can use… yeah, mace on ele!

randomfightfan.4091:

@ Rising

I’d be 100% fine with having good rewards at 50 and higher only IF 50 was actually unlocked and do-able. Since 48 is the highest available level atm, and has been the highest available level for months, it should have a way to work towards the skin you want. Even if token TYPES were made (like this token is for 2h weapons, this one for 1h weapons, each with ranged or melee categories), it would significantly balance out the rng hate while maintaining your illusion of prestige with the skins. I personally think type of system would be dumb and there should just be a flat 1 token for 1 skin trade since my class (I have 7 80’s but only use thief) can only use 1h weapons. On top of 2h weapons being useless for me, I’d need 2 1h melee tokens if I wanted dual dagger or s/d or anything. With the system as it is, I’ve done 130 runs (that’s 130 pristines, they were unlocked after I got to 38), almost all at 38 or 48, and I have yet to get a skin I wanted. I have a few I use but none I wanted.

I want that fractal sword and shortbow badly for my thief ;(

All the 8 skins I’ve gotten have been for my guardian =/

This is an important topic and should be posted in the suggestion forum, it shouldn’t die here -_-

inb4 posts on how removing rng will make those skins loose their “prestige”

As a thought exercise, I wondered how much fractal skins would sell for on the TP if they were not account bound on acquire.

I imagine that in demand skins (axe, gs, sword) would probably sell for a great deal, especially at first while supply is low. And they would likely retain their value fairly well.

Incidentally, this is a solution to the problems of fractals not being rewarding, being unable to get the skins you deserve and being unable to do anything with your 7th Trident skin.

Quite sincerely, with all the new skins introduced ever since FOTM came out, I don’t really see the appeal of most of them these days except for the whole “I ran fractals until I got it!” thing. I went from “I’d like to see a better way to get them than pure rng” to “I wouldn’t even want them for free”. I actually replaced the fractal skins I had with some of the new skins. As in, destroying the item forever, not just buying another with the same stats.

Hopefully, when the three new fractals are introduced, there will be some sort of reward overhaul (maybe even as much as a gold reward at the end, which is based on the fractals you are given). As it stands, I feel they either need to do something with the weapon skins or with the loot from the boss chests. I, personally, wouldn’t mind if they made it so that you could only get weapons at 48, and they dropped with a higher frequency (something like 40-50%). This way you: (1) still weed out the players who give up before reaching 48, (2) allow players who farm the heck out of fractals a chance to get a desired weapon in a reasonable time frame, and (3) keep them prestigious. Because running 10 level 48s in a row to get 1 trident is very frustrating when compared to a player who gets something like GS/Sword/Dagger at personal levels 20/21/22.

Although, I would also be happy with better drops from the boss chests. As it stands, I feel I have a lucky run in a 48 when I see 1 rare and 2 cores as the best drops for the run. This would give the people grinding their fractal weapons at least something for their time, instead of wishing they had run a CoF P1/CoF P2/SE P1, which would have taken a similar amount of time (possibly even less) and have yielded at least a guaranteed 3g. This is probably the better option since fractals are really not worth running once you have the weapons you want, so unless they do it correctly, changing the way fractal weapon skins either drop or are obtained would only cause people to abandon fractals faster as they would be obtaining their weapons faster.

This needs to happen. Behind you OP!

Why dont you post this on the main sub forum. That way maybe you might catch some devs attention.

Wiseman.4075:

Kalkin.5293:

Can we please get some kind of a ticket system with the fractal weapons, same as ones used for fused/jade/aetherized skins? Double RNG, one for the weapon and one for the weapon type is just making everyone frustrated, nobody wants to sit there with three harpoons and two spearguns.

Can Anet please ban this person’s account?!

He has scammed not only me but other people out of gold now and it is ridiculous that this person is still playing with his stolen goods. What are we teaching people these days? I have screen shots of this person and my conversation. This person is a fraud and should lose all privileges.

I will enjoy finding you over and over again Kalkin until Anet bans your scumbag self.

Please, I am intrigued, supply us the screenshots. /late night forum drama <3

Wiseman.4075:

Kalkin.5293:

Can we please get some kind of a ticket system with the fractal weapons, same as ones used for fused/jade/aetherized skins? Double RNG, one for the weapon and one for the weapon type is just making everyone frustrated, nobody wants to sit there with three harpoons and two spearguns.

Can Anet please ban this person’s account?!

He has scammed not only me but other people out of gold now and it is ridiculous that this person is still playing with his stolen goods. What are we teaching people these days? I have screen shots of this person and my conversation. This person is a fraud and should lose all privileges.

I will enjoy finding you over and over again Kalkin until Anet bans your scumbag self.

How do you get scammed out of gold?

Fractals was designed to be hardcore, old school, “get it only if you’re lucky or farm it hard”, gameplay so I doubt they’ll make it easier to get those fractal skins. I’m not advocating any particular position, just explaining why it is in the current format. Of course, I don’t know for sure since I’m not a dev, but that’s what the evidence points to. Of course, we can always hope.

basically, “we don’t know how to design challenging content so we put in stupid rng and so those lottery winners can feel special.”

Or they just don’t care to make challenging content because that would mean $$$ that they don’t get to invest in the cash shop and fortnightly casual events, heaven forbid!

I totally agree with the OP. This rng system in fotm is nothing more than an endless and eternal pain. I’ve been doing many fotm runs for some weeks now, because I’d like to have the one handed sword. Even if I get a fractal weapon – it is very frustrating to never know if the weaponskin I desire will be inside the daily chest or not. The chance is very low that it is the one I want and not one of the other 18 skins I am not interested in.

Anet should really do something about this. I’m so fed up with fotm right now because I just can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. Meanwhile I do 2-3 dailies per day which means that there is not much time left for things in GW2 I like and enjoy – exploring, story, normal dungeons, wvw etc. This sword could drop tomorrow evening, maybe in some months and maybe never.

Let us exchange e.g. 30 or 60 Pristine Fractal Relics for a weapon skin = light at the end of the tunnel = I do something to earn the item I desire, even if it takes a month.

Or let the daily chest drop Fractal-Weapon-Tickets instead of random fractal skins so players can go to a merchant and exchange the ticket for the item they want.

Please Anet – do something about this. Remember your manifesto? You guys told your community that we won’t have to do mindless grinding in GW2 “to get to the fun stuff”. Guess what: doing FOTM – as it is right now – to get a certain, random-dropping Fractal Weaponskin, with which I want to have fun when fighting monsters is just that: a frustrating (which is even worse than “boring”) grind to get to the fun stuff.

Archon.3987:

Please Anet – do something about this. Remember your manifesto?

Manifesto said, if a player wanted to grind thousands hours for a weapon it shhould be different only in aesthetic.

Seems fitting to Fotm SKINS to me.
not to ascended and legendaries.

Consider also increased AR made lvl 48 easy so they reduced the time to get skins if you pug by a lot because people won t fail anymore.

LordByron.8369:

because people won t fail anymore.

News to me!

Nikaido.3457:

Quite sincerely, with all the new skins introduced ever since FOTM came out, I don’t really see the appeal of most of them these days except for the whole “I ran fractals until I got it!” thing. I went from “I’d like to see a better way to get them than pure rng” to “I wouldn’t even want them for free”. I actually replaced the fractal skins I had with some of the new skins. As in, destroying the item forever, not just buying another with the same stats.

Not everyone is as hardcore as you Nikado :P

seems to be a bit of a divide on this thread – i personally love running fractals for the challenge. i just got my personal lvl to 48 on my thief and i run at least a 48 every day. i do agree that having a ticket drop would ruin the prestige factor of these skins (which imo are the best looking in the game)… at the end of the day, that’s really all they are, an aesthetic, prestige item; and i don’t think that should change.

i think by having the fractal skins sell for something like 50 pristine relics for 2hand and 40 for 1h would be fair, though. in this case, the only people that would be able to afford the skin they want are those people who have done kittenloads of dailies for them. i think everyone wins in this case.

for the record, a group of people have calculated the weapon drop rates based on catalogued data from multiple runs from multiple players. They’ve found a 31% chance at 48.

Crysys.1297:

for the record, a group of people have calculated the weapon drop rates based on catalogued data from multiple runs from multiple players. They’ve found a 31% chance at 48.

I was about to say that that’s way too high, and was about to quote a guy on reddit who calculated it to be around 15%, but then I found the thread I was going to talk about and found this in the thread

The only thing that bothers me is that their sample size is so small. With only 80 runs, that chance can still fluctuate quite a bit. We should make a collective of people running Fractals and noting their chances to get to a better consensus.

Bright.9160:

Crysys.1297:

for the record, a group of people have calculated the weapon drop rates based on catalogued data from multiple runs from multiple players. They’ve found a 31% chance at 48.

I was about to say that that’s way too high, and was about to quote a guy on reddit who calculated it to be around 15%, but then I found the thread I was going to talk about and found this in the thread

The only thing that bothers me is that their sample size is so small. With only 80 runs, that chance can still fluctuate quite a bit. We should make a collective of people running Fractals and noting their chances to get to a better consensus.

80 data points for 48 probably are too few, but at the 28 and 38 are double that and they’re sitting at ~8 and ~14%, respectively. so it would stand to reason that 48 is higher than that, though not necessarily 31.25% as they report.

I have not read all of the posts but i would like to say one thing.

My thief is now lvl 30 in fractals, i have looted 4 weapons so far.
However, none of those can be used by my thief… Thus i will give them to my low lvl necro (not 80 yet).
So in the end my thief has nothing to show for all that time spent in fractals, but my necro is full fractal weapons without having stepped in one.

So yes, please add a way to choose / exchange weapons =)

…just got the fractal hammer…have no need for it…only character who uses a hammer is my Norn guardian who already wields a hammer which appeals to me. If that thing wasn’t account-bound I’d give it to an other player who wants to use a fractal hammer.

The situation now: most probably 15 – 20 or more fotm runs to get another fractal weapon – what will it then be? The speargun?! – or maybe another hammer?! This RNG system is ridiculous and – as I stated before – totally frustrating.

There has to be a possibility implemented which lets a player choose the fractal weapon he wants to have.

P.S. Did my dailies every day during the last 2 weeks – got 1 infused ring, 1 ring (not infused) 1 fractal weapon (hammer-.-). Didn’t even get enough Mist Essences to upgrade my 2nd ring – spent more than 150 Gold to craft and infuse my back item. The costs (currency & invested time) outweight the gain by far, if you ask me.

You know the joke among players is:

Guild Wars 2 was originally going to be AION 2, until ArenaNet wanted the game to be their game.

Same RNG as AION, but AION now has a better RNG than Guild Wars 2.

Crysys.1297:

. i do agree that having a ticket drop would ruin the prestige factor of these skins

i think by having the fractal skins sell for something like 50 pristine relics for 2hand and 40 for 1h would be fair, though. in this case, the only people that would be able to afford the skin they want are those people who have done kittenloads of dailies for them. i think everyone wins in this case.

I disagree with having a ticket drop would ruin the “prestige”(not that i care about the prestige). You still have to go into fractals to get the weaps and chances are still low on lower lvls. It would just save people loads of time where they can be doing other things in this game. Instead of making money in dungeons i spend about 45mins in fractal 48 everyday hoping to get the weapon i want. I get no other reward out of doing fractals and about 95% of the time i get nothing or a weapon i can’t use. It’s just ridiculously time consuming! I’m really hoping they make some good changes to fractals next month.

I’m all for having them tradeable through pristine relics though!

OMNIBUS.2913:

Crysys.1297:

. i do agree that having a ticket drop would ruin the prestige factor of these skins

i think by having the fractal skins sell for something like 50 pristine relics for 2hand and 40 for 1h would be fair, though. in this case, the only people that would be able to afford the skin they want are those people who have done kittenloads of dailies for them. i think everyone wins in this case.

I disagree with having a ticket drop would ruin the “prestige”(not that i care about the prestige). You still have to go into fractals to get the weaps and chances are still low on lower lvls. It would just save people loads of time where they can be doing other things in this game. Instead of making money in dungeons i spend about 45mins in fractal 48 everyday hoping to get the weapon i want. I get no other reward out of doing fractals and about 95% of the time i get nothing or a weapon i can’t use. It’s just ridiculously time consuming! I’m really hoping they make some good changes to fractals next month.

I’m all for having them tradeable through pristine relics though!

For prestige value, I think they need to take a tip from korean MMOs.

Lvl 20-29 should drop just the plain skin. 30-39 could drop the skin with a slight glow/effect. 40-49 would be a more intense glow/effect. etc

Eventually you could start to change colors as well.

LordByron.8369:

yes but will ask an insane amount of farming
Just to respect lucky players who got randomly a precursor.

So lucky players for a needed item are to be considered more important than dedicated players (300 pristines and still i miss one skin i want) that put effort on a skin?

Effort isn’t running level 28 over and over and over again. Effort is getting one or more toons to level 50, not being stuck at one level.

I’m all for a mechanism to pick specific fractal weapons, I’ve disliked the RNG system since Fractals was released.

I think making them non-account bound was the best suggestion in the thread. Another idea would be a weapon chest that drops only from 40+, it would maintain “prestige” and get rid of the skin RNG.

You currently have about 1/166 chances to get the skin you want AT 48!

Do you really want to avoid RNG or you simply want an easy SKIN.

Case 1:
Keep rng as it is and give some new tokens (example 10 at 48 or 3 at 3X and 1 at 2X and require 1660) and when you get the same amount of tokens to compare to 166 lvl 48 runs you get your BOX.

This way you just doubled the chances, get rid of RNG…..and yet you get random skins you could use.

Case 2:

You want easy skins. Do not write “to mantain prestige and stuff” ….math is clear.
I bet even halving the effort and removing RNG would totally be unacceptable for people here….or am i wrong?

Do not ask to have a skin after few runs at 48 because we already have too many peoples to carry at 48.

And hard to obtain skins are intended since the manifesto…..
FRACTALs are the only rare skin that can’t be bought with gold or real moneys….

LordByron.8369:

You currently have about 1/166 chances to get the skin you want AT 48!

Do you really want to avoid RNG or you simply want an easy SKIN.

A strange question to ask. People dislike the RNG because the RNG is specifically what makes getting a particular skin excessively time-consuming. I want to avoid the RNG because I want easier skins.

1/166 is a terrible drop rate for the amount of time it takes to complete fractals.

LordByron.8369:

Case 1:
Keep rng as it is and give some new tokens (example 10 at 48 or 3 at 3X and 1 at 2X and require 1660) and when you get the same amount of tokens to compare to 166 lvl 48 runs you get your BOX.

This way you just doubled the chances, get rid of RNG…..and yet you get random skins you could use.

I think that idea’s okay, but I would set the cost at 100 tokens, or at most 150 tokens with your rates instead of 1660, i.e. 10-15 runs of 48.

LordByron.8369:

Case 2:

You want easy skins. Do not write “to mantain prestige and stuff” ….math is clear.
I bet even halving the effort and removing RNG would totally be unacceptable for people here….or am i wrong?

Do not ask to have a skin after few runs at 48 because we already have too many peoples to carry at 48.

Whatever ‘prestige’ Fractal weapons currently have, it’s not from the math or number of runs it takes. I don’t think many people are impressed by others’ tolerance for grinding fractals. All a skin shows now is “this guy did fractal 20+ at least once, he got lucky or grinded”. Nothing more, nothing that’s super impressive.

The player has already proven themselves by completing high level fractals, I really don’t see the need to have such bad probability of getting a specific skin.

Personally, I think the SAB Tribulation mode skins have much more ‘prestige’ than Fractal skins.

LordByron.8369:

And hard to obtain skins are intended since the manifesto…..
FRACTALs are the only rare skin that can’t be bought with gold or real moneys….

Well, the current system is obviously what the developers intended, because that’s what they shipped.

I am providing feedback about what I would like to see instead, because I think the current system doesn’t respect the player’s time and effort. It feels like a relic from older games, something that Anet has already improved upon in other parts of the game.

The real question is whether they have totally abandonded the fractal system now that they are pushing two-week living story updates.

Mckeone.9804:

The real question is whether they have totally abandonded the fractal system now that they are pushing two-week living story updates.

Wait, that’s still a question? I thought we all already knew.

Mckeone.9804:

The real question is whether they have totally abandonded the fractal system now that they are pushing two-week living story updates.

The real question is whether they had supported fractals in the first place?

voidwater.2064:

….

So you want 1500% current chances?
Ok i want to pay a dusk 50 gold
I want to craft an infinite light with 40 charged lodestones and 15 orichalcum blade.
And i want ascended weapons to cost 5 gold each.

Its exactly the same you asked applied to the rest of the “skins”.
Since they want to preserve the luck of people who drop a precursor….why should they totally disregard people that run fotm with 0 rewards for skins?

@haviz
If you look at all the stealth nerf they made in fractal they are clearly supporting fractals.

The issue is all they do is against players but they stealth buffed mobs and bosses almost each patch.

Afaik they solved the cliffside arm seals respawn also at least.

Actually precursor luck dependence is supposedly being addressed in the near future by being craftable. But I will believe once it happens.

I don’t regard RNG as prestigious at all. I view those who got their desired fotm weapon skins as being lucky. Nothing more.

With that mindset there is nothing prestigious in this game at all. Even legendaries are based on RNG because of the precursors. Only thing you could consider prestigious are maybe dungeon armors or weapons since you have to do the content in order to obtain them. Other than that, everything in this game is based on RNG.

Yup skins are hardly prestigious. And I do have a legendary and mutiple fotm weapons in my bank.

LordByron.8369:

So you want 1500% current chances?
Ok i want to pay a dusk 50 gold
I want to craft an infinite light with 40 charged lodestones and 15 orichalcum blade.
And i want ascended weapons to cost 5 gold each.

Its exactly the same you asked applied to the rest of the “skins”.
Since they want to preserve the luck of people who drop a precursor….why should they totally disregard people that run fotm with 0 rewards for skins?

@haviz
If you look at all the stealth nerf they made in fractal they are clearly supporting fractals.

The issue is all they do is against players but they stealth buffed mobs and bosses almost each patch.

Afaik they solved the cliffside arm seals respawn also at least.

Winning a lottery isn’t a prestige. Acquiring skins should be done by completing hard content.

Stealth nerfs/bug fixes are hardly support.

haviz.1340:

Winning a lottery isn’t a prestige. Acquiring skins should be done by completing hard content.

Stealth nerfs/bug fixes are hardly support.

What is prestige according to you? And acquiring weapon skins just by doing a hard content? EVERYONE will have that “prestige” skin of yours within few days. Think Teq for instance. Hardest boss fight in the game? EVERYONE can kill him these days. Fractal 48? Our guild does them daily like a regular dungeon run. There is no prestige in this game, even if legendaries could be acquired by doing a hard content, withing a week or two we’d be literally seeing everyone walking around with a legendary.

Romo.3709:

What is prestige according to you? And acquiring weapon skins just by doing a hard content? EVERYONE will have that “prestige” skin of yours within few days. Think Teq for instance. Hardest boss fight in the game? EVERYONE can kill him these days. Fractal 48? Our guild does them daily like a regular dungeon run. There is no prestige in this game, even if legendaries could be acquired by doing a hard content, withing a week or two we’d be literally seeing everyone walking around with a legendary.

How then does running something hundred of times make it prestige?

haviz.1340:

How then does running something hundred of times make it prestige?

Tell me what do you think is prestige? Just giving it to you? Not having to spend hours upon hours of gameplay on acquiring that one thing you want? I’m not asking you to answer my question with a question. WHAT IS PRESTIGE TO YOU? Because right now it’s all rant about how you’re not getting that thing you want and you want Anet to give it to you. Define prestige in your words.

Romo.3709:

Tell me what do you think is prestige? Just giving it to you? Not having to spend hours upon hours of gameplay on acquiring that one thing you want? I’m not asking you to answer my question with a question. WHAT IS PRESTIGE TO YOU? Because right now it’s all rant about how you’re not getting that thing you want and you want Anet to give it to you. Define prestige in your words.

How fractal skins should be acquired is in thread name. Right now, they are not prestige gear, they are rare gear.

Prestige is reputation that spreads admiration on the basis of a perception of one’s achievements, completing fractals and praying to lady luck is hardly that. This game lacks hard content because it is made for casuals who do not like when you need to improve your abilities.

Weird, because right now I have a tab full of fractal skins in my bank and I’m not exaggerating at all. As the matter of fact some of my friends just salvage them at this point. I don’t feel the prestige at all. I do fractals for the fun of it, not to get a skin. It would be nice if it was more rewarding in matter of drops or gold upon completion, but skins are really not the answer to that at all.
And how can “reputation that spreads admiration on the basis of a perception of one’s achievements” when it can be done by everyone just by simply doing 10 fractals here and there. This game has none of that. At this point even Legendaries themselves have lost the prestige, since we see them all over the place. There is no prestige in this game after one year. And I really wouldn’t like them to do what apparently WoW is doing by making everything obsolete with every expansion. The only thing we have left in this game is self accomplishment.
Skins are just skins. There is nothing prestigious about the fractal skins at all. Aside from staff or great-sword, most skins are ok looking at best.
The biggest mistake Anet has ever done was making Legendaries sellable, therefore destroying the only possible prestige point in the game.

Oh, legendaries would have been prestige item if they had not been buyable.

Yeah =/
People just make them to sell them for profit these days…

At the same time I agree with you that fractals been left out since pretty much release, since only thing they’ve done was adding the support for different level rewards to play together and ability to exit and come back to the instance.
After so many rings, thousands of Fractal Relics are just plainly useless. We should definitely have another use for them as well aside from Prestine Fractal Relics. Because in all honesty, who buys rings with them anymore? So in actuality we don’t need any more versions of tokens when we have them already. All they would have to really do is make them useful for once.

Romo.3709:

What is prestige according to you? And acquiring weapon skins just by doing a hard content? EVERYONE will have that “prestige” skin of yours within few days

An item has ‘prestige’ if it shows player skill, shown by completing something difficult. Proper execution, good judgment with skills and positioning, twitch reflexes, etc. Not brute repetition.

As I mentioned before, I think SAB Tribulation weapons are better example of ‘prestige’ item than fractal skins.

For example, legendaries are just money grinds right now, there is no ‘prestige’. Suppose they changed precursor acquisition. To get a precursor, your dungeon party must win an instanced fight against 5 buffed Lupicus + large constant stream of silver adds at the same time. Then there would be some prestige.

If the hard content can be completed by everyone within days, then the content clearly wasn’t hard enough.

And that’s why I see no point in having such low drop rates for fractal skins. Completing fractals 100 times vs 10 times doesn’t show any difference in player skill. The low drop rate merely adds grind, not prestige.

LordByron.8369:

voidwater.2064:

….

So you want 1500% current chances?
Ok i want to pay a dusk 50 gold
I want to craft an infinite light with 40 charged lodestones and 15 orichalcum blade.
And i want ascended weapons to cost 5 gold each.

Its exactly the same you asked applied to the rest of the “skins”.
Since they want to preserve the luck of people who drop a precursor….why should they totally disregard people that run fotm with 0 rewards for skins?

@haviz
If you look at all the stealth nerf they made in fractal they are clearly supporting fractals.

The issue is all they do is against players but they stealth buffed mobs and bosses almost each patch.

Afaik they solved the cliffside arm seals respawn also at least.

The real issue is at least if i worked towards infinite light. I would eventually get the skin 100%. And chances are i would probably get it faster than the fractal weapon i want doing 48 everyday. I may never get the fractal weapon i want. I dont have endless hours to spend in fractals running 48 multiple times a day on different chars. And you get a bad taste when you hear about someone who got the fractal greatsword on their first couple of runs. When you have been doing runs daily with no sword to show for it. Even if you craft a legendary you can at least be sure you will get the weapon in time. No assurance for your work and time you put in=no fun.

I completely agree with the fact that the fractal weapon skins are right now a wee bit too difficult to attain, when one is after a specific one only. It can very well be that I will never get this skin, even if I do three full fractal runs a day for a year, simply because RNG is RNG.

The ticket idea is a good one. I would also suggest to put some usefulness into the pristine relics, too. Those relics are unable to buy us anything of value right now, which is a shame. Why not make fractal skins available for say 50 of those relics? Would totally be worth getting them then and they’d no longer be useless. That way people will still have to work for the desired skin, daily so.

TL;DR Byron thinks having to run a huge amount of fractals to get a skin you want is reasonable, some other people disagree.