Fractal versions of the Raids?
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I don’t see what this would add to the game. All you did is shift the gate for raids from player skill to the gold cost of obtaining 150 AR and the ascended gear to put the infusions in.
The only thing that should give the rewards of doing a raid is the raid itself.
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
(edited by Mossy Gargoyle.3274)
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
Don’t blame me for the Meta, if I were going to exclude whole classes it sure wouldn’t be Necro.
So you admit that your “suggestion” isn’t actually about improving end-game content and more about your frustration with Necro’s unpopularity with raid groups? How disingenuous.
So you admit that your “suggestion” isn’t actually about improving end-game content and more about your frustration with Necro’s unpopularity with raid groups? How disingenuous.
How binary and simple minded of you, why can’t it be both?
Start your own raid group or join one that accepts power necros. Seriously. That will solve all of the problems you have been griping about for weeks on this forum and will staunch the desire to make fake suggestion threads. You can do it.
so for each fractal i do i get .5 li? that’d be an interesting currency.
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
Don’t blame me for the Meta, if I were going to exclude whole classes it sure wouldn’t be Necro.
Don’t blame the meta for not being willing to learn a new class. See how pointless of an argument that is?
If you want to play necro in raids then make sure you are kitten good at it. Groups will take you. If you can’t find a group to take you regularly then consider rolling another class.
I’m not going to take the bait here folks, I will how ever point out that I’m not the one saying anything defensive or hostile.
I’m not going to take the bait here folks, I will how ever point out that I’m not the one saying anything defensive or hostile.
I haven’t seen anyone accuse you of saying anything defensive or hostile, so where is this coming from?
And I haven’t seen anyone in this thread say anything defensive or hostile, so not sure why you’re accusing others of saying defensive and hostile things.
As to the topic, you still haven’t pointed out any logical reason for ANet to give out raid rewards to content that is not raids. So can you elaborate on that, please.
LI are exclusive to raids. Fractals have their exclusive rewards. We dont get fractal chests, fractal relics or the skins of Nightmare and Chaos fractal, and we shouldnt.
Each mode need to have its exclusive rewards.
Fractal needs more fractals like the 100 CM.
It’s not the meta’s fault you want to be selfish in team based content.
I know that’s a hard pill to swallow, but it’s this boils down to.
You, don’t want to adapt and you refuse to put together your own groups.
That seems like a lot of effort and ultimately it just recylces content. I’d much rather see new fractals developed.
That seems like a lot of effort and ultimately it just recylces content. I’d much rather see new fractals developed.
How about new Fractals that offer an alternative path towards Legendary Armor, personally I don’t give a crap because the financial expenditure to make 6 Legs seems mind boggling.
This way each game mode keeps their exclusive skins, and content while the red headed unwanted classes can chill in Fractals while still having their own path to the armor that they paid access for while expecting the same path way for the Weapon Legs.
That seems like a lot of effort and ultimately it just recylces content. I’d much rather see new fractals developed.
How about new Fractals that offer an alternative path towards Legendary Armor, personally I don’t give a crap because the financial expenditure to make 6 Legs seems mind boggling.
This way each game mode keeps their exclusive skins, and content while the red headed unwanted classes can chill in Fractals while still having their own path to the armor that they paid access for while expecting the same path way for the Weapon Legs.
I’d be fine with that. Unique skins for unique methods of acquisition. Just as long as they use a fractal only currency – I suggest using one of the already existing currencies for fractals.
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
Don’t blame me for the Meta, if I were going to exclude whole classes it sure wouldn’t be Necro.
I’m not blaming you for the meta. I’m blaming you for being a crybaby about it simply because your preferred class isn’t good. You got 7 character slots you can easily use a couple of them for “meta” builds and use the rest on all the power greatsword necros you want.
Stop whining about not being able to raid and instead focus on what you can do to get into raids.
Anet make Rev great again.
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
Don’t blame me for the Meta, if I were going to exclude whole classes it sure wouldn’t be Necro.
I’m not blaming you for the meta. I’m blaming you for being a crybaby about it simply because your preferred class isn’t good. You got 7 character slots you can easily use a couple of them for “meta” builds and use the rest on all the power greatsword necros you want.
Stop whining about not being able to raid and instead focus on what you can do to get into raids.
Right calling some one a whiner isn’t hostile or derogatory at all.
Standing up for my point of view doesn’t make me a whiner just because my view point is different than any one that Raids regularly; that’s kind of High School Jock mentality if you ask me.
http://amd-icbm.com/icbm/anet-blog-play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes/
This is a fun read from the beginning of GW2 that shows you the true spirit of what this game was aiming for.
As the say in Midworld in the Dark Tower series ’you’ve forgotten the face of your father’
Honestly, this looks more like a thinly-veiled gripe about not being able to raid with necromancer than a sincere suggestion. So many of the OP’s posts trend that direction.
Raids are terrific as is, and the rewards are appropriate to the skill and coordination required to complete them. If you want LIs, raid. If you have trouble finding a group that accepts you, start your own (or join a raiding guild).
Don’t blame me for the Meta, if I were going to exclude whole classes it sure wouldn’t be Necro.
I’m not blaming you for the meta. I’m blaming you for being a crybaby about it simply because your preferred class isn’t good. You got 7 character slots you can easily use a couple of them for “meta” builds and use the rest on all the power greatsword necros you want.
Stop whining about not being able to raid and instead focus on what you can do to get into raids.
Right calling some one a whiner isn’t hostile or derogatory at all.
Standing up for my point of view doesn’t make me a whiner just because my view point is different than any one that Raids regularly; that’s kind of High School Jock mentality if you ask me.
http://amd-icbm.com/icbm/anet-blog-play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes/
This is a fun read from the beginning of GW2 that shows you the true spirit of what this game was aiming for.
As the say in Midworld in the Dark Tower series ’you’ve forgotten the face of your father’
Things change but life goes on. I suggest you learn other classes or find a guild.
Really, it’s moot. ANet has specifically said that they like their approach to raids because it’s been wildly successful among their target audience and beyond. They’ve also said they are pleased with the current direction of fractals, using T1-2 as entry-level fractals and T4 as a place that people can practice techniques for raiding.
Or put another way:
- Fractals are designed to be increasingly-challenging 5-person content.
- Raids are designed to be challenging 10-person content.
It’s of no benefit to the community to divert resources from one to the other, just because some of us haven’t figured out how to find the 9+ people we can raid with (which is certainly more challenging for some of us than others).
I have no problem with the game including some lore and some rewards gated behind content I hate or content for which I’m unwilling to put in the effort to master. Although I can see why some people do, I doubt very much the game would be more successful if ANet adjusted things to change that.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
They don’t even have the manpower to do proper balance patches and instead we need to settle for marginal patches every 6 months with a measly few cooldown decreases and trait tweaks to traits and weapons that nobody uses nor will continue to use with a measly 17% buff.
What makes you think that if they can’t be bothered to balance the game around anything that isn’t spvp, that they would bother to dedicate manpower to adapting raids to fractals?
Just wait for the next xpac and hope they fix the class you wanted to play by then. That’s the standard of their work.
How about new Fractals that offer an alternative path towards Legendary Armor, personally I don’t give a crap because the financial expenditure to make 6 Legs seems mind boggling.
This way each game mode keeps their exclusive skins, and content while the red headed unwanted classes can chill in Fractals while still having their own path to the armor that they paid access for while expecting the same path way for the Weapon Legs.
I don’t love your tone at the end. Just because you buy a game, doesn’t mean you have a right to get any reward through any means you want. Everyone is paying for the same opportunity, same way I will never get a legendary pvp backpack (and I’m cool with that, I don’t want to play pvp).
However, your solution is fine imo. I have no problem with other game modes having their own path to leg armor. Unfortunately, considering it is taking years to create the skins, I don’t think it is wise for every game mode to have its own skins. It still baffles me to this day that an mmo developer has trouble creating armor skins, but that is our reality. And so I would say make multiple paths to the same skins, because anet is simply unable to create multiple sets in any kind of timely manner.
I’d be fine with 5 man versions of each with no LI awarded.
How the days change. When I proposed something similar, having Raid boss fights as fractals, it was all the anti-Raid crowd that fell upon the suggestion shouting “NO!”
necro is as terrible in fractals as it is in raids its the fact that you dont die that allows necro to raid if they introduced fractaks with strict dps chects and timers necros wouldnt even be touched.
(edited by zealex.9410)
Necro dps 30.6k DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0
It’s not so bad.
necro is as terrible in fractals as it is in raids its the fact that you dont die that allows necro to raid if they introduced fractaks with strict dps chects and timers necros wouldnt even be touched.
Well, the thing is, necro isn’t as poor as some wants to tell here. I’m glad to see that qT will bring some other strategies to their new homepage called “safe kills”. And in my opinion a necro could be standard for some more than just Escort. Most pugs are too focussed on the optimal meta for example bringing tempests to Matt and elsewhere while there is plenty of room to bring classes that reduce the risk of failure like a glass cannon temp. They all forget that they need a decent skill level to beat bosses in way speed run groups are able to.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
Necro dps 30.6k DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0It’s not so bad.
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
It’s going to be considerably lower in a real fight and it will offer pretty low group support.
Problem is that necro has meh dps and doesn’t help the team out very much. It does have some niches with transfusion for groups that aren’t so good and it has epidemic for trash mobs during certain fights.
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
condi Rangers also require tons of combo fields to do their dps. Their group support is nearly non-existent too.
I’m not saying it’s the best dps but it’s not garbage as some people say it is.
Doesn’t fit the fractal lore nor would it bring anything new to the table…I even play Necro myself and do not want to see them waste time on putting raids into fractals…Putting raids into fractals will just boot necros out for those builds that do raids now.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Necro dps 30.6k DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0It’s not so bad.
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
It’s going to be considerably lower in a real fight and it will offer pretty low group support.Problem is that necro has meh dps and doesn’t help the team out very much. It does have some niches with transfusion for groups that aren’t so good and it has epidemic for trash mobs during certain fights.
It’s sad that we do have a few things that if buffed can be good from teams..But Anet doesn’t want to do that or seems to notice these things much.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
condi Rangers also require tons of combo fields to do their dps. Their group support is nearly non-existent too.
I’m not saying it’s the best dps but it’s not garbage as some people say it is.
Condi rangers have better DPS, so why take a necro then? You either have good DPS or group support (like condi PS Warrior only pushing like 26k but bringing 20+ Might for five people).
quoted from somewhere else.
"""
The problem with farbstoffs condi necro rotation is, a big part of your damage relys on combo finishers in chill fields. You will almost never be able to do combofinishers in a real raid where you have constant light, fire and ethereal fields underneath you. Also necro reached only 30k with UNREALISTIC buffs which is still lower than for example a condi warrior with realistic buffs. So what would be the point at bringing a necro ever?
"""
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
condi Rangers also require tons of combo fields to do their dps
Condirangers dont really require combofields for their dps, they require AoE’s but not really combofields. The problem with that vid is that it’s only that high because the reaper can reliably proc Deathly Chill by whirling in his icefield in Deathshroud. In a real raid that icefield is going to be covered with fields of 9 other people, and the chance of you getting those deathly chill procs off is very low. Besides niche epidemic or safety usage on certain boss, necro has 0 use.
Looks like I have to usurp my own thread because of reasons that I’m not allowed to discuss.
If you’re going to put important lore in Raids like the prequel the Season 3 and Epilogue to GW1 then you should make condensed Fractal versions like Molten Facility and Tower of Nightmares.
Looks like I have to usurp my own thread because of reasons that I’m not allowed to discuss.
If you’re going to put important lore in Raids like the prequel the Season 3 and Epilogue to GW1 then you should make condensed Fractal versions like Molten Facility and Tower of Nightmares.
Again, you act as if there isn’t lore in dungeons, which, at the time a lot of people started playing, weren’t accessible to a lot of players. For lore to be worth putting in the game at all, it has to be interesting, but that doesn’t mean that every piece of lore in the game is “important”.
They should not spend extra effort on other parts of the game just because some people don’t raid. (And I say that as someone interested in lore who has yet to complete even a single wing of raids.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Looks like I have to usurp my own thread because of reasons that I’m not allowed to discuss.
If you’re going to put important lore in Raids like the prequel the Season 3 and Epilogue to GW1 then you should make condensed Fractal versions like Molten Facility and Tower of Nightmares.
But there is no importent lore in raids.
You gain more information to the events prior Out of the Shadows during the last mission of Head of the Snake than from the entire Forsaken Thicket.
Almost everything we know about Saul D’Alessio was known prior Bastion of the Penitent, the raid only added minimal information about his life when he vanished after he defeated the charr. And he is completely irrelevant to the events in GW2.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
It’s important lore to me.
You can always ask for a cleared instance and see it for yourself. The cinematics have a replay feature.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
It’s important lore to me.
Sure, I get that. However, that doesn’t actually mean that the lore is important, to others, to the story, to the game, or to the community generally.
My feeling is that every part of the game should include lore and that new content should have lore tied to “current” events. The “importance” of the lore is then a function of a variety of factors, including whether “current” events make sense without it. In the case of raids, the lore gives the wings context within the current events; they aren’t critical to our understanding of those events, let alone our enjoyment of them.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
It’s funny how people exclude themselves from playing reapers in raids. Sure, if you’re playing it bad, you’ll get kicked – and it’s not because the class is bad, the player is bad!
In my static run, we use 2 necros (sacrilege!) all the time in Wing 2 clear. The DPS check there is trivial enough that utilities of the necro actually outweighs its limited DPS output: Epidemic, Plague Signet, Transfusion, CC, sturdiness… you name it.
We even use necros for Boss 1/2/3 in wing 4, or in this easy peasy challenge mote of boss 2: https://youtu.be/q8srTwDaFWY
Look at their damage! What’s there to complain about? Pug excludes you? Then show them your amazing real time DPS and contribution.
In before you said “Oooh, you can only play necro in a static group…” Mind you, the necro in this kill was technically a pug, not a guildie. He gave us the suggestion and we gave it a go. It worked, we adopted it. He even got the kill in pugs several times on Monday before coming to help.
In the end, your roundabout way of making your class acceptable in (pug) Raids to access their shiny rewards is easily solved with by… playing the content as is.
“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”
- doranduck, 2016 on Lore in Raids
- doranduck, 2016 on Lore in Raids
quoted from somewhere else.
"""
The problem with farbstoffs condi necro rotation is, a big part of your damage relys on combo finishers in chill fields. You will almost never be able to do combofinishers in a real raid where you have constant light, fire and ethereal fields underneath you. Also necro reached only 30k with UNREALISTIC buffs which is still lower than for example a condi warrior with realistic buffs. So what would be the point at bringing a necro ever?
"""
Not true. If you build a heavy condi team (hello, meta!) then you will have almost 100% Firefield uptime for your delicious burning stack. Also on bosses where cleaving is vital (Mursaat Overseer, Slothasor), your contributing (total) damage is more valuable than the single target damage. It helps your group get a smooth, painless kill and ease the pressure on support group where they can push for more damage (Magi druid → Viper druid). If you use the class wisely, it is a NET GAIN for your group.
I present you my guild’s lazy way to deal with CM boss 2, wing 4: https://youtu.be/q8srTwDaFWY In this version of two reaper, two magi druids, a total time of 4:12. We shafted it off by 30 seconds by changing to 1 condi engi, 1 reaper, 1 magi druid, 1 viper druid. Are 30 seconds worth it? Totally subjective.
“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”
- doranduck, 2016 on Lore in Raids
- doranduck, 2016 on Lore in Raids
Necro dps 30.6k DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGFf92ZzS0It’s not so bad.
ppl should stop looking at the testing area and takimg what they see to heart… in a raid scenrario this is far from the truth the dps in that area is to show you how well youdo your rotation not what your dos will be in a raid or fractal scenario.
quoted from somewhere else.
"""
The problem with farbstoffs condi necro rotation is, a big part of your damage relys on combo finishers in chill fields. You will almost never be able to do combofinishers in a real raid where you have constant light, fire and ethereal fields underneath you. Also necro reached only 30k with UNREALISTIC buffs which is still lower than for example a condi warrior with realistic buffs. So what would be the point at bringing a necro ever?
"""
iirc condi warr realistic does 26 27k dps
quoted from somewhere else.
"""
The problem with farbstoffs condi necro rotation is, a big part of your damage relys on combo finishers in chill fields. You will almost never be able to do combofinishers in a real raid where you have constant light, fire and ethereal fields underneath you. Also necro reached only 30k with UNREALISTIC buffs which is still lower than for example a condi warrior with realistic buffs. So what would be the point at bringing a necro ever?
"""
iirc condi warr realistic does 26 27k dps
A condition warrior does around 26k DPS with “realistic” buffs, against a boss that never moves, while standing completely still themselves, and without any additional targets ever presenting themselves, and without any distraction from simply doing damage.
What does their DPS look like if you dodge once every ten seconds? What changes if the boss walks around in a big circle? How does adding a mechanic requiring you to stand at range, or in melee, for part of the fight change the picture?
I can tell you from experience with SimulationCraft over in WoW-land, the golem is useful, but the “mechanics” of this DPS test strongly favor classes that have a high “opportunity cost” for handling mechanics.
For example, ele has a lot of spells with a cast time, in which moving aborts the spell and throws a 3s CD on it, right? Guess what happens if you have to move for mechanics — yup, their DPS goes down, potentially quite significantly. Which is why they do so much better on this “perfect conditions” fight, but in the real world … maybe not so much compared to classes that have less punishment for dodging, y’know?
Small correction, but condi wars can get around 32k DPS against the golem with realistic buffs. Which should increase their DPS in a real raid scenario by several thousand
still the puprose of the training area should not be to check how much dmg a spec can do it should be purely about learning rotation as ppl dont seem tomunderstand that the result they will get there they will hardly reach in a real raid scenario thats why dps meters are a blessing ^^ also @OriOri u got a link to a dps rotation that goes up to that number?
That’s with all buffs and utilizing combo fields.
condi Rangers also require tons of combo fields to do their dps. Their group support is nearly non-existent too.
I’m not saying it’s the best dps but it’s not garbage as some people say it is.
no its not like that necro needs to combo field to blast or wirl or w/e to bring out his dps if for any case your field gets covered overwriten by a a light field and ethereal field of a fire field you dmg goos down massively and in a raid secnario that will happen.
quoted from somewhere else.
"""
The problem with farbstoffs condi necro rotation is, a big part of your damage relys on combo finishers in chill fields. You will almost never be able to do combofinishers in a real raid where you have constant light, fire and ethereal fields underneath you. Also necro reached only 30k with UNREALISTIC buffs which is still lower than for example a condi warrior with realistic buffs. So what would be the point at bringing a necro ever?
"""
iirc condi warr realistic does 26 27k dps
A condition warrior does around 26k DPS with “realistic” buffs, against a boss that never moves, while standing completely still themselves, and without any additional targets ever presenting themselves, and without any distraction from simply doing damage.
What does their DPS look like if you dodge once every ten seconds? What changes if the boss walks around in a big circle? How does adding a mechanic requiring you to stand at range, or in melee, for part of the fight change the picture?
I can tell you from experience with SimulationCraft over in WoW-land, the golem is useful, but the “mechanics” of this DPS test strongly favor classes that have a high “opportunity cost” for handling mechanics.
For example, ele has a lot of spells with a cast time, in which moving aborts the spell and throws a 3s CD on it, right? Guess what happens if you have to move for mechanics — yup, their DPS goes down, potentially quite significantly. Which is why they do so much better on this “perfect conditions” fight, but in the real world … maybe not so much compared to classes that have less punishment for dodging, y’know?
yes ik this mode is perfect for practicing rotations but the result esp the numbers should not be taken by heart by so many ppl
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