Giganticus Lupicus

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Chryzo.8906

Chryzo.8906

Broadicea, you now have… the stability well

djspicegirltang, lupi is already too easy as is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iEep1CzQNY (go to 47:00, the ones before are just plain wipes) and that was naked.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

As a necromancer I’ve rarely had trouble with Giganticus Lupicus, unless I was in a really bad team. Keep in mind that necromancers have only 2 dodges and that’s it. No invincibility or evade. Just Deathshroud as a last panic button.

The first couple of tries at Lupicus can be pretty hard, since you don’t know what you’re doing, and the game has very poor tells. Just having your entire team dodge his grub-summon makes a big difference, but unfortunately this is a very poorly telegraphed move. If you know that you need to dodge when he raises his claw, it’s perfectly easy. But nothing about that spells out “I’m summoning a grub on top of you”.

Phase 2 is a bit more aggressive. And in my experience most unexperienced teams die here because they are playing it too safe. People tend to stick to ranged attacks, which then gets them killed. Staying close to Lupi (but not too close) makes his attacks far more manageable. You’ll have enough dodges to avoid his teleport attack, and his aoe attack. Anything else should not require dodging. So don’t waste your dodges. Lupi has a lot of attacks that are directed out in front of him. So obviously staying close to him and flanking him, keeps you out of harms way.

Phase 3 I find actually a bit easier than phase 2. His big charge up attack can be avoided by simply walking out of the big red circle, and it makes him very vulnerable for a long time to attacks, while he’s not doing anything.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

i don t have problems beating lupicus

But after many runs its clear that aoes are clearly bugged and should be fixed.

They are just HORIZONTAL shots that hits anything on their ways
So They should either removes aoe circles at all or make them hit only in circles.

As they are now doesn t make sense because you are hit if you have any circle behind you.

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

That is more of a global problem in the game right now that you touch upon. The game revolves entirely around these red circles of death…. or red circles of minor damage, the end result is never quite clear until it hits you.

What we really should be dodging is a clearly visible projectile or area effect, and not red circles. And there should be a clear sound for an incoming projectile, that we can respond to. Proper visual and audio effects would instantly solve almost all issue with bosses in the game.

The game also needs some consistency with it’s rules. Like I said, when is a red circle deadly, and when is it minor damage? You should be able to tell without being hit by it first. A clear visual effect would instantly communicate this to the player.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: colesy.8490

colesy.8490

But the game does have proper visual and audio effects.

Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Bismuth.3165

Bismuth.3165

indeed, lupi’s attacks aren’t that clear, many times in phase 2 I’ve been killed by his attacks even though I was out of the circle

Jeeha (ele) and Jeeha The Warrior
Is currently emotionally unstable because Breaking Bad is over

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

But the game does have proper visual and audio effects.

Don’t be silly. Just taking Lupicus as an example. He raises his arm (makes no unique sound while doing this) and then a grub appears on top of you. No projectile physically hits you, no area effect appears that you need to dodge. It just happens. And there’s no unique sound or animation when he consumes a grub either.

It’s one of those things you just have to know, or by studying youtube videos. If you know exactly what to look out for, it’s easy to dodge. But it is a very poor visual effect. Not to mention the countless attacks that just spawn red circles. It’s the red circles you are dodging, not a visual effect. Most other games would have something visually appear on the ground that you dodge. The red circle is like a placeholder for a missing effect.

Don’t get me wrong, of all the bosses Lupicus has perhaps the best mechanics. But the visuals and sounds of all bosses in the game could use a lot of attention. Right now it’s rather sloppy. There’s countless situations where you suddenly take damage, and the player is left to wonder “What the hell just hit me?!”. With a boss fight that should never be the case.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: colesy.8490

colesy.8490

So you get a grub spawned on you and then know for the next time to dodge when he lifts his arm. Clear visual cue.

And I don’t think I’ve ever wondered what has just hit me in a dungeon because I don’t go out of my way to ignore audio and visual cues like you seem to.

Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

Lupicus is a dodge-mastery check for like 99% of the time.

That’s it.

Only the bubble (animation is faster than you dodge, and can’t dodge out of it anymore – you can while in it tho, as long as you don’t touch borders…) and the projectile barrage (only cause it’s a bit wonky at times) might require you to actually use something more, like blocks/leaps/invulns/teleports.

About grubs, if you’ve let him eat some, it’s your problem not having dealt with those before. You can always reset the fight btw.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Dub.1273

Dub.1273

Only the bubble (animation is faster than you dodge,

Wrong.

Dub | [rT]
#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

Only the bubble (animation is faster than you dodge,

Wrong.

Might be.
Don’t have that much uber experience with it – just personal observation, and got hit by bubble due to hitting the border of it halfway dodging quite some times.
Or maybe i’m not getting the tells early enough.

Anyway, that wasn’t the point.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Softspoken.2410

Softspoken.2410

I just went on my necro for the first time with a pug group of 3 GS-camping warriors and an ele. Of course they ranged so I didn’t get the chance for the full experience (chasing him around trying to melee is always a blast), but I’d say necros have it the roughest here with the lack of evasion moves and no access to vigor. Of course energy sigils would help that. As far as phase 3, I was able to save myself with a couple lucky spectral walks and flesh wurms. Aside from that, I don’t see much they can do for melee range if someone is dancing around causing bubbles. Death Shroud won’t save you at all.

Every other class has tons of outs.

I find the easiest way to deal with phase 3’s bubble is to have 30 in SR and switch in the Stability on Death Shroud trait for Deathly Perception. I realize 30 in SR may not be tenable for a high-end dungeon build, but for anyone out there willing to sacrifice an optimum set-up for a stronger safety net, it’s something to consider.

Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Zoid.2568

Zoid.2568

You can melee lupicus very fast if you use the correct abilities to keep your health or block/reflect his projectiles. The problem is everyone going full zerk, not the encounter.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Dub.1273

Dub.1273

Obviously berserker gear is the problem when i even solo’d him without any armor at all.

Dub | [rT]
#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

So you get a grub spawned on you and then know for the next time to dodge when he lifts his arm. Clear visual cue.

Yeah, you’re totally not understanding my point clearly. Never mind, I’m not going to bother argue proper boss design with you.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: TheKillerAngel.3596

TheKillerAngel.3596

Getting good at lupi is a matter of fighting him over and over again until you know his moves well.

Think stacking and skipping trash is cheap?
Read: Playing to Win.
Guide: How to play a Mesmer in dungeons.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

So you get a grub spawned on you and then know for the next time to dodge when he lifts his arm. Clear visual cue.

Yeah, you’re totally not understanding my point clearly. Never mind, I’m not going to bother argue proper boss design with you.

Let’s not start that again

#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

Aww come on let’s do it again, I had a truly sick burn last time

Retired. Too many casuals.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Id recommend trying dark path for getting out of domes and avoiding the aoe in phase 2.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Wukunlin.8461

Wukunlin.8461

So you get a grub spawned on you and then know for the next time to dodge when he lifts his arm. Clear visual cue.

Yeah, you’re totally not understanding my point clearly. Never mind, I’m not going to bother argue proper boss design with you.

Let’s not start that again

But every boss should put a big sign above your head before they hit you like Jade Maw!!!

Oceanic [LOD]

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

That is more of a global problem in the game right now that you touch upon. The game revolves entirely around these red circles of death…. or red circles of minor damage, the end result is never quite clear until it hits you.

What we really should be dodging is a clearly visible projectile or area effect, and not red circles. And there should be a clear sound for an incoming projectile, that we can respond to. Proper visual and audio effects would instantly solve almost all issue with bosses in the game.

The game also needs some consistency with it’s rules. Like I said, when is a red circle deadly, and when is it minor damage? You should be able to tell without being hit by it first. A clear visual effect would instantly communicate this to the player.

the problem is you get hit even miles away from red circles.

Thus red circles = double evade wherever you are (or antiprojectile/invul)

And the worse part is you may get hit before red circle appears or after it disappear….because what hits you is the projectile Flying towards the red circle.

Simply doesn’t make sense.

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Dub.1273

Dub.1273

I would not have a problem with red circles being completely removed from this game. But instead of crying about misleading or unconsistent circles people will start crying even more that it’s impossible to stay alive. Also, lupicus’ red circles in p2 are bot misleading in any way, they are really accurate. You can simply get hit by projectiles that are on their way to the red circle.

Dub | [rT]
#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Softspoken.2410

Softspoken.2410

I would not have a problem with red circles being completely removed from this game. But instead of crying about misleading or unconsistent circles people will start crying even more that it’s impossible to stay alive. Also, lupicus’ red circles in p2 are bot misleading in any way, they are really accurate. You can simply get hit by projectiles that are on their way to the red circle.

Given that most every other red circle is ‘Standing outside of me means you are safe’, this still sounds pretty misleading.

Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Those red circles are simply either not drawn fast enough or not drawn at all. In solo, maybe duo every circle should be drawn but might still be drawn later.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: ilr.9675

ilr.9675

But he has a tendency to focus one player insistently until that player is dead. I’ve downed Lupricus at least 100 times so surely it’s possible to down him as he is now, but he should change targets more often than he does.

I’m going to second this just b/c he’s been completely ignoring me lately and I’m getting tired of just watching everyone else get to do the exciting stuff. I have to follow them around now just to get a few reflects off. Y he no <3 meh anymo?

(edited by ilr.9675)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

the problem is you get hit even miles away from red circles.

Thus red circles = double evade wherever you are (or antiprojectile/invul)

And the worse part is you may get hit before red circle appears or after it disappear….because what hits you is the projectile Flying towards the red circle.

Simply doesn’t make sense.

But again, like I said, that’s because you don’t see the projectile clearly. It is designed in a way where you are intended to dodge the red circles, and not pay attention to the projectiles. That is exactly the design flaw, this reliance on red circles. What they should really be doing, it making easily visible projectiles and impact effects, instead of red circles. That would instantly solve this issue. And if the projectiles move too fast, add a proper sound cue for the projectiles that players can respond to.

But every boss should put a big sign above your head before they hit you like Jade Maw!!!

Your trolling aside, this really boils down again to the issue of the red circles. If the designers of this boss had added proper visual and audio cues to each attack, you would not need red circles. Every other game does this right. Take any common console game with boss battles, and you will see no red circles. That’s because it is a band aid to a design flaw.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: xsquared.1926

xsquared.1926

Some players just have to get good.

I haven’t gotten around to soloing lupi myself yet, mainly because playing on the US servers from Europe messes up my dodges tremendously (I’m looking at you, P1 kick) but after studying lupi for a while, you should be able to know which animation triggers what attack.

A claw raise tells you he’s about to spawn a grub on you. A belch/screech spawns locusts, and his kick is well, a kick.

P2 is fairly easy, with the exception of AoE’s being wonky every now and then. Dodging away once, and then dodging towards him makes you dodge 90% of the projectiles, though.

P3 has the big bad bubble that will probably wreck you if he decides to pop it 3-4 times in a row (Which shouldn’t happen if you just stand still and melee) and maybe the single target life leech if you’re unlucky.

In the end, to everyone that can’t beat lupi (Including myself, sometimes) get good, learn his telegraphs and adapt your movements to them.

Master Ruseman. Lv80 Mesmer 10/20/0/25/15
Boon Dispenser. Lv80 Guardian 15/25/0/20/10 Boom Dispenser – Lv80 Engineer 30/30/0/10/0
Chuck Thunderstruck – Lv 80 Ele 30/10/10/10/10

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Some players just have to get good.

For the record, a lot of the criticism towards Lupi is coming from players who can beat Lupi just fine. I have no issues in fighting him. And I think it is a good fight (one of the better ones in the game). But he suffers from some of the same design flaws as any of the other bosses in the game.

You can memorize anything. “Oh, if this boss blinks his eye, I have to dodge”. But that’s not good boss design. If the boss summons a grub, it would make more sense that you’d have to interrupt his casting, or that there would be a visible effect that you dodge. There’s plenty of room for improvement.

It really grinds my gears when players with an elitist attitude scold less experienced players with this “learn 2 play”-argument, when they have valid criticism. I learned how to dodge the grub-attack by watching a youtube video of someone doing it. That is how I figured out the timing, and that I should be dodging at all. But that is BAD design. If some boss in Demons Souls splattered me with an attack, I always knew what I did wrong. I didn’t have to look up a youtube video to figure it out. There would be a clearly visible effect, and I’d instantly work out a strategy myself.

With Lupicus:

  • It’s not clear how he summons the grubs, and that you need to dodge
  • It is not clear that he consumes the grubs, and that they make him stronger
  • It is not clear that some of his aoe attacks also fire projectiles

This could easily be solved in this manner:

  • A large mark appears on the floor when Lupicus is summoning a grub on you, and it explodes if you fail to dodge, causing a glowing grub to appear.
  • When Lupicus consumes a grub, he visibly picks it up and swallows it, causing him to glow with energy. You could even add an on screen message that reads “Lupicus has gained strength”.
  • Get rid of the red circles, and have very large bright projectiles, that explode in clearly visible aoe explosions. That way, players can dodge both.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

The only attack from lupi that i can partially agree on is the grub. Picking up a grub though doesnt need to be changed as it gets warped to him and by that time its pretty obvious its too late. Also believe it says under lupi’s name “consumes grubs”? The aoe is fine how it is imo.

(edited by spoj.9672)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

The only attack from lupi that i can partially agree on is the grub. Picking up a grub though doesnt need to be changed as it gets warped to him and by that time its pretty obvious its too late. Also believe it says under lupi’s name “consumes grubs”? The aoe is fine how it is imo.

It does say that, but the result of him becoming stronger isn’t very clear. If the players were notified right away that they let a grub be consumed, they would instantly adapt their strategy during the battle, and focus more on the grubs. Just the line “consumes grubs” would make most newb players shrug and think “so what?”. But if you make him look stronger after consuming one, you instantly clarify the mechanics of the battle. This eliminates trial and error.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

So he eats them because he needs nourishment? What else could he possibly want from poor grubs in a video game?

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: colesy.8490

colesy.8490

As if trial and error was a bad thing? Are you actually for real?

Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

Mad Queen doesn’t believe that you should ever fail a boss battle, it’s pretty much the underlying premise behind their arguments about GW2 boss design.

This whole grub discussion, I mean… He has a very particular animation. A big green cloud surrounds the player. A few seconds later a grub spawns. His title says Consumes Grubs. The grub rushes towards him. He bends down and snatches the grub up. He then gains a stack of Empowered or whatever the buff is called.

It’s all pretty clear.

Retired. Too many casuals.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Advent Leader.1083

Advent Leader.1083

Amusingly, the debate starting right now is whether trial and error gameplay is good or bad for GW2. Just an observation.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

As if trial and error was a bad thing? Are you actually for real?

Trial and error is indeed a bad design philosophy. You should be able to learn a boss battle while you’re doing it, and not by repeatedly failing due to vague mechanics. Vague = bad.

That doesn’t mean I want things to be easy. That whole argument of “the Mad Queen wants to beat every boss on the first try” is missing the point of the actual argument. The point is, that mechanics should be clear, so you can adjust your strategy during the battle, and not afterwards.

I have designed bosses professionally that were quite challenging, yet whose mechanics were perfectly clear on the first try. I wouldn’t be saying this otherwise. It’s bad design practice.

Mad Queen doesn’t believe that you should ever fail a boss battle, it’s pretty much the underlying premise behind their arguments about GW2 boss design.

No it’s not. But I think “strawman” pretty much sums up your counter arguments. You are consistently and deliberately misrepresenting my arguments, because I suspect you are afraid to actually critically analyze the design of these bosses.

It’s all pretty clear.

To you. Did you find this out yourself, or did you look it up online? And did you understand what Lupicus was doing the first time you encountered him? If not, that is exactly my point.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

I figured dodging infection on my own and must say it doesn’t make much sense.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Emanuel.9781

Emanuel.9781

I figured dodging infection on my own and must say it doesn’t make much sense.

You know what also doesn’t make sense? What happens if you get “hit” by the grub skill? After 5 or so seconds, the grub seems to burst outside your stomach or something, but it does no damage!

Rezardi [DnT] – Elite Playhowiwanter US
NemesisMMNecro [rT] – Trans-Transsylvanian RPer EU

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

I figured dodging infection on my own and must say it doesn’t make much sense.

You know what also doesn’t make sense? What happens if you get “hit” by the grub skill? After 5 or so seconds, the grub seems to burst outside your stomach or something, but it does no damage!

Huehue

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: laharl.8435

laharl.8435

With Lupicus:

  • It’s not clear how he summons the grubs, and that you need to dodge
  • It is not clear that he consumes the grubs, and that they make him stronger
  • It is not clear that some of his aoe attacks also fire projectiles

I will admit that I didn’t figure out dodging the grubs on my own. But, there are visual cues. Just because you or I didn’t figure it our ourselves doesn’t mean other people didn’t. As for it not being clear that he consumes the grubs and they make him stronger, that is quite clear in every way. The grub scurries to him, he picks it up and gets a stack of Empowered. The aoe’s also being projectiles is also quite clear with a little deductive reasoning.

Lupi is fine the way he is. If anything, it would be nice if there were something you could do within the dungeon to unlock a harder version of him, or have multiple Lupi’s at the same time.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

The only thing i’d want from Lupi is having his base ideas and mechanics implemented at least for the end boss of the other DGs paths.

Phases – and how good you clear first might determine how harsh will the boss be
Not so much oneshotkills (if full hp, ofc) – even most dangerous moves like barrage or bubble are composed by multiple ticks.
Dodge/survivability tools check – ’nuff said.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

Mad Queen doesn’t believe that you should ever fail a boss battle, it’s pretty much the underlying premise behind their arguments about GW2 boss design.

No it’s not. But I think “strawman” pretty much sums up your counter arguments. You are consistently and deliberately misrepresenting my arguments, because I suspect you are afraid to actually critically analyze the design of these bosses.

It’s all pretty clear.

To you. Did you find this out yourself, or did you look it up online? And did you understand what Lupicus was doing the first time you encountered him? If not, that is exactly my point.

This is an MMO with encounters designed to be played by different groups over and over and over again, for years. Knowledge of the encounters and tactics for trivializing it spread like a virus, from person to person as different people group up together and share their ideas in the game, and yes, on the internet as well. It’s a social game, with a few complex boss encounters that you could figure out on your own through repeated attempts, though the encounters become crystal clear much much quicker if someone in your group on or online explains them to you. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. You don’t have to completely understand, to the point of predictability, a complex boss the first time you fight him. That rule only seems to exist in Mad Queen’s playbook.

Looking at the Jade Maw, which you have called a good boss as opposed to Bad Boss Lupi, everything about the Maw is completely understandable and predictable the very first time you see it, which is why the chance of failure during that fight is virtually nil for the average players and why the entire encounter is boring as crap.

Retired. Too many casuals.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

As an aside, why didn’t you respond in the Deadeye Dunwell thread where you insisted the fight was impossible on necro post-patch? I posted a video of doing a simple, one-minute-repeatable farm with three four gambits.

Retired. Too many casuals.

(edited by Broadicea.8294)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Broad did you manage the 5 gambit achieve with my build? I ended up having to switch to condi’s for that 1 achieve.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

Nah I did the 5G with my guardian. I was just working on getting farmable methods down for every class, and Mad Queen over there was arguing that it was just straight up impossible on necro so I did this http://youtu.be/VNPRcYZAZVY

But yeah that was your build, which I’ve taken out for a spin to a few dungeons now. Not bad at all.

Edit: I just noticed I did 4 gambits there, not 3. Even better!

Retired. Too many casuals.

(edited by Broadicea.8294)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen over there was arguing that it was just straight up impossible on necro so I did this http://youtu.be/VNPRcYZAZVY
But yeah that was your build, which I’ve taken out for a spin to a few dungeons now. Not bad at all.

Oh, you mean that topic where I said that I had completed Deadeye? See, this is what I mean. You strawman other people’s arguments. You’re not actually interested in what people say, you make up what they said, and then beat up on that opinion. It is the weakest and most cowardly way to discuss anything. I never said that it could not be done on a necromancer (why would I? I completed it myself on a necro!).

You don’t have to completely understand, to the point of predictability, a complex boss the first time you fight him_. That rule only seems to exist in Mad Queen’s playbook.

You seem to have enormous difficulty understanding the idea that you could understand a boss on your first try, and that he could still be difficult. Have you ever played Demons Souls? Having clear mechanics is what makes a boss battle fair. But it is the speed and complexity of the encounter, combined with the damage that the boss deals, and how adaptive he is to the behavior of the players, that decides how difficult it is.

Looking at the Jade Maw, which you have called a good boss

Regarding boss tells! I only said it’s tells were good.

as opposed to Bad Boss Lupi,

Who has bad tells, as other players pointed out to you a few posts back, which confirms I’m not alone in this observation.

everything about the Maw is completely understandable and predictable the very first time you see it, which is why the chance of failure during that fight is virtually nil for the average players and why the entire encounter is boring as crap.

The reason the Maw is very linear and predictable, is not because his tells are clear. It is because there is very little variation in the fight. It’s a static boss first of all, with no ability to change it’s behavior based on what the players are doing. THAT is what makes it a dull fight. Not the clear tells, that is one of the aspects that’s good about it.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: TheKillerAngel.3596

TheKillerAngel.3596

I’m a little curious – how many of you have extensive experience in fighting games? I believe that high quality fighting games set a good example of how to design twitch-based boss encounters.

Think stacking and skipping trash is cheap?
Read: Playing to Win.
Guide: How to play a Mesmer in dungeons.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Broadicea.8294

Broadicea.8294

Deadeye topic is a massive derail, so why don’t you have a seat over here…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/jubilee/Nerf-Deadeye-It-s-Boring-now/2658645

Retired. Too many casuals.

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

I’m a little curious – how many of you have extensive experience in fighting games? I believe that high quality fighting games set a good example of how to design twitch-based boss encounters.

I would say I have extensive experience with fighting games across many sub- genres that feature twitch based boss fights:
(arcade fighting games like Tekken, and hack and slash beat’m ups like God of War, and platform games like Castlevania). In no particular order:

Bayonetta, Soul Blade, Soul Caliber 1, 2, 3, 4, Mortal Combat (1, 2, 3 and the reboot), Dead or Alive 1, 2 3, Tekken, Demons Souls, Dark Souls, God of War 1, 2, 3 and the PSP GoW games, Megaman 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, Castlevania 1, 3, Rondo of Blood, Symphony of the Night, Curse of Darkness, Lords of Shadow and just Castlevania for the PS2, Metalslug X, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Turrican 1, 2, 3, Golden Axe, Double Dragon 2 and 3, TMNT 2 and 3 (not counting the first game), Bayou Billy, Shadow Dancer, Rise of the Robots, Lollypop Chainsaw (no idea why I played that, but good boss fights). And a fighting game I’ve worked on myself, for PS3 and Xbox 360.

-just a few games from the top of my head.

Especially the God of War games are a great example of good boss designs.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: lethlora.1320

lethlora.1320

this encounter reeks of artificial difficulty. no cues for anything at all; in any other MMO encounter with complex raid-style mechanics, here is almost always some form of cue for when something strong is coming.

the HP bar in GW2 is ambiguous, there’s no percentages displayed, the boss makes almost no noise at all, much less noise that would cue phase changes or strong attacks being initiated…

it would be one thing for this fight to be hard, but instead of just feels poorly and/or lazily designed and inferior to the standard other MMOs set. (which is really too bad, because this is the first boss I’ve even encountered that resembles the complexity that other MMOs’ PvE offers.)

(edited by lethlora.1320)

Giganticus Lupicus

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Dat necro.

Pretty sure lupi has pretty big cues. Only thing which isnt obvious at first is dodging the grub, but you can clearly see hes doing something you should worry about.