Guild Wars 2

It has come to my attention that a lot of eles are unhappy about me picking their ice bows.
Funny how mentality changed since the 2013-2014 meta when it was necessary to give thieves/mesmers a lighting hammer for dps increase.
Long story short, party wide dps>personal dps – give your ice bows to a condi reaper, let them use 5, 3, 4 and be happy because you just produced team play and a class combo. and op dmg.

May the DPS uptime be with you

What’s a necro?

All kidding aside, it would be interesting to see some testing on how much of a dps increase conjures are for different classes. A necro would benefit from the chills on the icebow, but would an ele’s higher power mean they would have more of a dps increase? I genuinely don’t know what class would benefit the most from the various weapons.

Nice joke.
https://padl.tk/u/VDnO4NYT7BFv
And that’s with a kittened up rota on my end, Nec had every Ice Bow.
Here’s proper dps of Ele’s:
https://padl.tk/u/bDVy3NRAweve

So ya, giving Nec 32233223 Ice Bows won’t make him any good.
If you wanna talk about group dps then kick Nec, ez 7-8k group dps inc.

maybe I’m not interpreting this data correctly. Your padl shows a necro hitting 14k, and a proper dps ele hitting 22k.

But isn’t this video showing a necro hitting 23.6k? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0r_po-TIXo)0

Arc ignores invuln times while gw2helper counts them resulting in gw2helper showing higher numbers.
Check per phase damage on my logs.
Another thing to note is Necros will have a hard time aiming their whirl finishers into chill fields with Ele’s spamming lightning fields resulting in a huge dps loss.
In your video there’s no ele, only a guard and guard fields are easy to work around but then again there’s no Ice Bows either.
I guess if you really wanna make Nec decent then you need a normal Staff Ele and not a s/wh one but then Ele’s lose damage except if you do slow cc then Staff will pull ahead but if you slow cc then Ele is useless in the 1st place and you may aswell take a ranger instead.
So you see the issue here?:D You can’t get perfect whirl finishers and Ice Bows in the same scenario without losing group damage.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

So you see the issue here?:D You can’t get perfect whirl finishers and Ice Bows in the same scenario without losing group damage.

That’s not the issue raised here though. If you have a necro should they pick up your ice bow, that’s the question. Get mad at them for not playing a better profession, sure, whatever. But, get mad at them for picking up your ice bow? Is it better if they do or not?

Jerus.4350:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

So you see the issue here?:D You can’t get perfect whirl finishers and Ice Bows in the same scenario without losing group damage.

That’s not the issue raised here though. If you have a necro should they pick up your ice bow, that’s the question. Get mad at them for not playing a better profession, sure, whatever. But, get mad at them for picking up your ice bow? Is it better if they do or not?

I mean, if you put it like that then yes it’s better if Necros take it.

Stop. Stealing. My. Icebows.

Feanor.2358:

Stop. Stealing. My. Icebows.

Can i keep stealing fiery greatswords because im ascrub and i cant dodge?

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Jerus.4350:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

So you see the issue here?:D You can’t get perfect whirl finishers and Ice Bows in the same scenario without losing group damage.

That’s not the issue raised here though. If you have a necro should they pick up your ice bow, that’s the question. Get mad at them for not playing a better profession, sure, whatever. But, get mad at them for picking up your ice bow? Is it better if they do or not?

I mean, if you put it like that then yes it’s better if Necros take it.

so long as they dont get feared while doing icebow 4 on sloth

I think 3 is the thing for the necro cause of the 21 bleeding he do if all projectile hits.

HenryChinaski.4732:

I think 3 is the thing for the necro cause of the 21 bleeding he do if all projectile hits.

isnt ice bow 4 a dps increase everywhere tho

Frost Fan+Ice Field it’s pure love <3

Vitali.5039:

Frost Fan+Ice Field it’s pure love <3

Hm never be careful about that, 42 bleeding?

ice bow 5 also chills periodically so make sure to use it too

Amicable Pugs.4503:

snip

The necro has much less alacrity uptime + did the necro epi the stray mobs for extra dps? whatever the answer thats not really a thread for this kind of discussion as i’m not here to tell you necro is meta, but necro picking ice bows is beneficial.

HenryChinaski.4732:

Vitali.5039:

Frost Fan+Ice Field it’s pure love <3

Hm never be careful about that, 42 bleeding?

It’s only 20% chance per hit, sadly.
But 4 times i’ve procced 5/7, never 6 or 7/7

but it’s love

Sublimatio.6981:

ice bow 5 also chills periodically so make sure to use it too

Amicable Pugs.4503:

snip

The necro has much less alacrity uptime + did the necro epi the stray mobs for extra dps? whatever the answer thats not really a thread for this kind of discussion as i’m not here to tell you necro is meta, but necro picking ice bows is beneficial.

Arc is free, use it.

Why would you take the Eles ice bow on your necro when you could just replace both with condi rangers so neither has to struggle.

kappa

I love people saying Necros have no DPS. When I did Samarog CM I played my necro. Pulling 22k using the old scepter/dagger + staff with curses/blood/reaper was great fun. And now there is another build that does even more damage using GS and soul reaping?

On the topic of the Ice Bow, I too would love to see the damage numbers for how much the elementalist loses and how much each different class gains from grabbing it. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are certain classes that should grab it over the elementalist (probably only necro really but there could be others). I don’t have the latency to pull off perfect rotations like qT does so it’d be better for them to do it because I wouldn’t come close to the same damage they do (and honestly, golem DPS means nothing because you don’t pull anywhere close in raids, golem 30k while in raids 20k is amazing).

Last time I and a few guildy’s checked. Temp+condi ranger had same dmg from icebow. And condi necro pulled far ahead. So, yes, let your necro take it.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Arc is free, use it.

I don’t know how this relates to what I wrote so let me just mark it for you with red squares so you don’t stray from the topic again. Still even with full alacrity this graph wouldn’t prove anything since we can’t see the reaper’s gameplay + we don’t know what you tried to prove with these in the first place, that ele has better dmg than necro on gorseval? SHOOK.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

Sublimatio.6981:

Long story short, party wide dps>personal dps – give your ice bows to a condi reaper, let them use 5, 3, 4 and be happy because you just produced team play and a class combo.

While I agree with what you say, this is quite weird thing to see coming from an rT member, since your guild’s philosophy is **** teamplay. I seem to recall a quote along the lines “if they’re dumb enough to get themselves downed, screw ressing, just let them die, ressing is a DPS loss”…
By that logic you should never rely on conjures, those dumb eles will go downed eventually anyway, you’re better off just soloing the boss.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

Necros arent useless everywhere. But we can’t argue with someone that apparently think : not optimal = useless.

And why you have to come here on a thread saying “necro is useless take other class for ez more damage” while it wasn’t even the subject? It’s unnecessary.

fishball.7204:

Why would you take the Eles ice bow on your necro when you could just replace both with condi rangers so neither has to struggle.

kappa

Maybe because its dps class that people want to play? Do you really need 2 condi ranger in order to kill a boss?

No.

April fools, Necro is still terrible, don’t waste your Ice Bows

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.

lol this was a genuine question of my guildmate during a xera pug and i attached it only for fun as a joke and not to back up something i wrote. i dont expect anyone to take it seriously, its just a funny remark how epidemic+ice bow increases dmg in a way you can’t measure in the testing area (well ice bow you can).

Tarasicodissa.7084

While I agree with what you say, this is quite weird thing to see coming from an rT member, since your guild’s philosophy is **** teamplay. I seem to recall a quote along the lines “if they’re dumb enough to get themselves downed, screw ressing, just let them die, ressing is a DPS loss”…
By that logic you should never rely on conjures, those dumb eles will go downed eventually anyway, you’re better off just soloing the boss

i agree completely, if you’re about to die at least make yourself useful and give me the icebow. getting downed is something you shouldn’t be doing in the first place

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

Patrick.2987:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

The Necro guy above which is supposedly a “good” Nec can’t even hit 32k on golem so I’ll use his vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJmXhuC-tjg
instead of actual benchmark which is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIHbWW1m5s
while ele is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5CdXkALoo
Now remove perfect chill fields from Nec cause it won’t work in actual raids 50% of time and you get less than Ele, it’ll be between 28k and 30.
Also Ele’s add about 800-1.5k (based on amount of Ele’s) group dps thru Air Ol Buff while Nec brings nothing.
Epi or Ice Bow won’t change kitten.

So fire field instead of ice field costs 2k dps if u never hit the icefield. Even this is still more. Considering u can position urself well and hit icefields almost 100% of the time ur argument is crap. On top of that torment will increase dmg on bosses moving and permanent fields boost bone fiend dmg I think ur miscalculating this. The vid from subli was before all the adjustments when farbstoff also ended up at 30.5k dps so dot’t blame him for that.

You do bring some valid points except the positioning thing, I doubt you can outposition Overload Air fields but we’re comparing Nec vs Ele so guess we’re assuming a no ele comp then yea it’ll work I suppose.
And I have no way to properly calculate this right now so I’ll refrain from throwing numbers without any proof, they’re both close and I’m not sure rn which is better.
I can provide few logs to compare them but I got no log to directly compare Nec to Ele in same fight, closest I have is me doing cannons as Ele in a messy Sabetha but that’s bs to use as example.
I got a Mursaat with a Necro but no Ele:
https://padl.tk/u/oqe95ni8kbr5
And a Mursaat with Ele:
https://padl.tk/u/KpZ9arWzYpif
Nec could be higher in that run but doubt it’ll reach the Ele from other log.

Edit: found a Xera that might provide some data, look at 1st phase dps :
https://padl.tk/u/STxlsL5LknVM

wow shall i delete my every vid that is outdated to avoid dps shaming? at the moment of that upload I was beating Farbstoff’s first benchmark. later 1UP beaten mine (with my tips btw) and now Farbstoff beaten 1UP.
point of this thread is not to fight over who is a better necro or to belittle others like you try too hard right now. point of this thread is that necro should pick an ice bow if there is any on the ground. jeez

Sublimatio.6981:

at the moment of that upload I was beating Farbstoff’s first benchmark. later 1UP beaten mine (with my tips btw) and now Farbstoff beaten 1UP.

I actually didn’t know these things, sorry.

lel

this is all outside the scope of the original topic, though

If you have a necro in your party, give them your ice bow.
If you don’t, there’s no necro to give it to so don’t worry about it.

ez

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

The Necro guy above which is supposedly a “good” Nec can’t even hit 32k on golem so I’ll use his vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJmXhuC-tjg
instead of actual benchmark which is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIHbWW1m5s
while ele is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5CdXkALoo
Now remove perfect chill fields from Nec cause it won’t work in actual raids 50% of time and you get less than Ele, it’ll be between 28k and 30.
Also Ele’s add about 800-1.5k (based on amount of Ele’s) group dps thru Air Ol Buff while Nec brings nothing.
Epi or Ice Bow won’t change kitten.

What happens tho if ou don’t possition wildfire correctly or lightning orb? Does the dmg remain the same?

zealex.9410:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

The Necro guy above which is supposedly a “good” Nec can’t even hit 32k on golem so I’ll use his vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJmXhuC-tjg
instead of actual benchmark which is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIHbWW1m5s
while ele is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5CdXkALoo
Now remove perfect chill fields from Nec cause it won’t work in actual raids 50% of time and you get less than Ele, it’ll be between 28k and 30.
Also Ele’s add about 800-1.5k (based on amount of Ele’s) group dps thru Air Ol Buff while Nec brings nothing.
Epi or Ice Bow won’t change kitten.

What happens tho if ou don’t possition wildfire correctly or lightning orb? Does the dmg remain the same?

There’s no Wildfire to position on small hitboxes and Lightning Orb needs only 300+ range. Not sure how much of a difference not doing Lightning Orb properly would make.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

zealex.9410:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

The Necro guy above which is supposedly a “good” Nec can’t even hit 32k on golem so I’ll use his vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJmXhuC-tjg
instead of actual benchmark which is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIHbWW1m5s
while ele is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5CdXkALoo
Now remove perfect chill fields from Nec cause it won’t work in actual raids 50% of time and you get less than Ele, it’ll be between 28k and 30.
Also Ele’s add about 800-1.5k (based on amount of Ele’s) group dps thru Air Ol Buff while Nec brings nothing.
Epi or Ice Bow won’t change kitten.

What happens tho if ou don’t possition wildfire correctly or lightning orb? Does the dmg remain the same?

There’s no Wildfire to position on small hitboxes and Lightning Orb needs only 300+ range. Not sure how much of a difference not doing Lightning Orb properly would make.

im not sure the op refers only to raids and with a fire field the dps the build does it around 28-29k with icebow that might go to ik 30k?

zealex.9410:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

zealex.9410:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Patrick.2987:

Funny enought to say ele is a dps loss on small hitboxes so kick ele and ur dps will increase.

Still better than Nec)

Proof?

The Necro guy above which is supposedly a “good” Nec can’t even hit 32k on golem so I’ll use his vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJmXhuC-tjg
instead of actual benchmark which is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIHbWW1m5s
while ele is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab5CdXkALoo
Now remove perfect chill fields from Nec cause it won’t work in actual raids 50% of time and you get less than Ele, it’ll be between 28k and 30.
Also Ele’s add about 800-1.5k (based on amount of Ele’s) group dps thru Air Ol Buff while Nec brings nothing.
Epi or Ice Bow won’t change kitten.

What happens tho if ou don’t possition wildfire correctly or lightning orb? Does the dmg remain the same?

There’s no Wildfire to position on small hitboxes and Lightning Orb needs only 300+ range. Not sure how much of a difference not doing Lightning Orb properly would make.

im not sure the op refers only to raids and with a fire field the dps the build does it around 28-29k with icebow that might go to ik 30k?

Doubt Ice Bow would even add 1k on small hitboxes. Think the guys above me can answer this better than me.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Crinn.7864:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Are you saying that players skill is a significant contributor to performance in raids? Say it isn’t so!!!!11!

(It’s almost as if that might contribute to the realisation that people playing ele poorly do less DPS than people playing a “weaker” class well, brought to us by DPS meters actually telling people the difference between Qtfy members running their preferred class on a DPS golem … and random pug players in raids.)

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Crinn.7864:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Are you saying that players skill is a significant contributor to performance in raids? Say it isn’t so!!!!11!

(It’s almost as if that might contribute to the realisation that people playing ele poorly do less DPS than people playing a “weaker” class well, brought to us by DPS meters actually telling people the difference between Qtfy members running their preferred class on a DPS golem … and random pug players in raids.)

^
I prefer to see non-optimal class with “okay” dps than kittenty squishy temp with 8k dps. And they are A LOT.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Crinn.7864:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Are you saying that players skill is a significant contributor to performance in raids? Say it isn’t so!!!!11!

(It’s almost as if that might contribute to the realisation that people playing ele poorly do less DPS than people playing a “weaker” class well, brought to us by DPS meters actually telling people the difference between Qtfy members running their preferred class on a DPS golem … and random pug players in raids.)

Eh dps meters ruined the game right? Delusional toxicity is off the charts.

zealex.9410:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Crinn.7864:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Are you saying that players skill is a significant contributor to performance in raids? Say it isn’t so!!!!11!

(It’s almost as if that might contribute to the realisation that people playing ele poorly do less DPS than people playing a “weaker” class well, brought to us by DPS meters actually telling people the difference between Qtfy members running their preferred class on a DPS golem … and random pug players in raids.)

Eh dps meters ruined the game right? Delusional toxicity is off the charts.

I wouldn’t call that statement … entirely false, either. DPS meters are …

Well, in my industry the saying is “you get what you measure”. If you measure the number of teapots a teapot frobnicator frobnicates in an hour, they will definitely frobnicate as many as they can … even if the quality of frobnication is poor.

DPS meters measure damage output, and rarely do things like “damage done / damage taken” or whatever that helps account for, eg, successfully performing mechanics.

Over in WoW this led to pain with people who would top the meters because they just literally stand in the fire, carry out their DPS rotation, and counting on the healers to heal them.

Then we wipe because they can’t do mechanics like “run out when you have the debuff” to save their lives, or ours, but hey … at least we got what we measured?

So, yeah, DPS meters contribute to badness (“toxicity”) in raiding, and other content.

Also, and separately, then contribute to understanding that player skill is actually significant in GW2, and that theoretical output is different from real world output of a class… especially because mechanics hit some classes more than others. (“wait, the boss doesn’t just stand in your nice fields?!?”)

It’s complex, and anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

Crinn.7864:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

hold up

this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings

So your saying a guy that is bringing a necro into a raid for the very first time isn’t doing stellar dps?

protip: Pretty much everyone does terrible dps the first time they take a class into a raid.

Yes, please give me more protips.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/237256/gw287.jpg
If you’re gonna post made up dps numbers in screenshots then get logs or vids to prove it.
More Alacrity wouldn’t of made enough difference to make it seem any less kitten and the player actually spent some time on Necro before, this run was aimed at him specifically trying Nec in all wings and resulted in Nec being useless literally everywhere.

Stop comparing benchmarks and spreadsheets to reality. Necro can do more than ele in certain bosses. Stop with the delusional elitism. Or do ya need Nemesis to debunk zis kitten?

Ya’ll never do a dps of benchmark golem in a raid, Never.

Wat bosses do ele lose in dps to necro?

Frozen maw i think