Guild Wars 2

So must of the fractal change seems overall really great but I have one Issue with these change.

Currently among the 4 fractal no matter what you do in LFG it’s a prerequisite to annouce/start by the swamp map in first.
If mossman is picked usually members will want to do it underwater which is stupidily easy to do & poses no threat.

If the difficulty across all current fractal isn’t reworked; I can easily imagine player exploiting to reach fractal level 100 day one and LFG being filled with SWAMP & all the others maps being disregarded.

I hope that Anet reworked all the fractal map length & difficulty to be of equal difficulty before release.

How can someone get to 100 on the first day? Each scale is assigned a specific fractal.

Someone can technically do it using someone that has a high level swamp but that is not an exploit.

Level 80 is the max for characters.

the point does stand though. Fractals may not be exploitable or there is no point in making prestige armor.

One of the core changes we’re making is that each fractal run will only consist of one island from a static list instead of the current rotation of three random islands with a random boss fractal.

What I get from this is that we will be able to choose the fractal you do from a list but I may be wrong.

People will always find something to whine about. Anet tries to give us more progression while making it so we don’t have to spend 40 minutes to do max level fractals and people still find kitten to whine about.

Dinks.2478:

People will always find something to whine about. Anet tries to give us more progression while making it so we don’t have to spend 40 minutes to do max level fractals and people still find kitten to whine about.

Can you explain to me why asking for non exploitable prestige dungeon is whinning ?

Charrbeque.8729:

Level 80 is the max for characters.

He’s talking about Fractal Scale levels, which will go up to 100 in HoT.

papry.8096:

Dinks.2478:

People will always find something to whine about. Anet tries to give us more progression while making it so we don’t have to spend 40 minutes to do max level fractals and people still find kitten to whine about.

Can you explain to me why asking for non exploitable prestige dungeon is whinning ?

It’s not whining, but you’re wrong about using it to get to 100 outside of powerleveling after the rush is over. The system will force you to do different maps with different instabilities. If I had my way to get your own personal reward level up you’d be unable to skip too. I hope they do that. But, yes I’m sure they’re aware it needs fixing. You make a point there that’s worth repeating as many times as people feel like it.

papry.8096:

One of the core changes we’re making is that each fractal run will only consist of one island from a static list instead of the current rotation of three random islands with a random boss fractal.

What I get from this is that we will be able to choose the fractal you do from a list but I may be wrong.

That’s sort of how I interpreted it. I was thinking that it’d be like the dailies where each day X amount of fractal islands are available, and the next day it’ll be a different set.

The system will force you to do different maps with different instabilities.

I missed that point where did you see it ?

It came up on Reddit as well, which is where I saw this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3f7fwq/more_details_regarding_fractals/

A few things to note from it, in response to a couple things here.

Each fractal scale is a pre-determined island and mistlock instability pairing. Fractal 20 will always be the same island and the same mistlock instability.

The rewards you get from an island will scale based on the island type. So an island that is typically longer (cliffside) will give more rewards then one that is typically shorter (swamp). This will discourage you from just farming swamp forever.

The new daily achievements will require you complete different fractal scales. You won’t be able to just do swamp X times to complete the achievements.

Yes, you could could farm that, theoretical, level 92 swamp to get your personal scale up to 92. However, just because it’s swamp doesn’t mean it will be easy to grind from 1 to 92. Level 92 is no joke.

This being a few things a dev posted.

That’s great info but …well reddit. -_-

Dev Tracker is another good thing to check, for future reference. Part of this was also answered through a post you can see there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

Cameron Rich.3905:

rhapsody.3615:

Cameron Rich.3905:

To clarify on what the “Static Schedule” means:

Old System:
Every time you load in from Dessa’s Lab, a random fractal is chosen. If you want to play Swamp, you have to leave and re-enter, “rerolling” until you get that fractal.

New System:
Upon loading in from Dessa’s Lab, you are placed in a particular fractal depending on which scale you are playing at. If you want to play Swamp, all you’ll have to do is enter at a scale associated with it.

Hope this helps!

So these will change daily? Or will certain levels always be locked into certain fractals?

Had to delete my last post because of forum shenanigans. For Clarity:

Scales will now have a specific assigned Fractal associated with them. So certain fractal scales will have you play through the Swamp Fractal, others will be Mai Trin, etc. Each existing fractal has been associated with a number of scales, so you’ll see all of them multiple times on your ascent to fractal scale 100.

With this change, it will be easier for groups who want to practice strategy against a certain fractal to jump right in and play. Additionally, it paces out the rate at which you experience certain Fractals, so you don’t have to fight the same encounters over and over again!

papry.8096:

That’s great info but …well reddit. -_-

It was all written by a dev, so it’s legit info.

What I meant by that is that they have the official forum but write on reddit.

I think this change is great. I’ve always wanted to play Fractals more than I have but it is a huge commitment in time, and depending on the group can either be much faster or slower.

Thank you for continuing to keep this game casual, allowing us to play for as long or as little as we like. I know I’ll be doing Fractals much more often now!

Charrbeque.8729:

Level 80 is the max for characters.

haha

I can already predict that the ‘short and sweet’ fractal runs will probably be getting some unbearably hard fractal instability (or 2 or 3) that makes it nigh impossible to farm reliably without being extremely good. Although it might come down to between Mossman and Bloomhunger encounters which make the difference…

Ascalon dungeon run P1 – 15minutes = 1.55 gold as reward
Fractals – 3hours (depends on random fractal dungeons) = 1.40 gold as reward + 1 ring selable for 10silver

Draaq Cz.9642:

Ascalon dungeon run P1 – 15minutes = 1.55 gold as reward
Fractals – 3hours (depends on random fractal dungeons) = 1.40 gold as reward + 1 ring selable for 10silver

First of all, i don’t quite get what your post has to do with the thread and second: how the hell do you spend 3 hours in fractals (not to mention 15 min for AC p1 )?! Not even my worst pug-runs took as long, cliffside/grawl and mai trin included. You must be doing one or several things really wrong

Draaq Cz.9642:

Ascalon dungeon run P1 – 15minutes = 1.55 gold as reward
Fractals – 3hours (depends on random fractal dungeons) = 1.40 gold as reward + 1 ring selable for 10silver

Umm AC p1 should only take around 5 minutes. Are you possibly confusing it with AC P3 because of the time gate?

Fractals generally take the average PUG group 45-60 minutes. Organized groups 30-45. Optimized comps 20-30 for daily runs.

WoW guys. Calm down. The record for AC path 1 is 4min so you won’t see much pug do it in 5min if at all. 10-15min is a good average for a PuG AC path 1. But for the 3 hours, that’s pretty bad too.

If we go back to the subject. It seem that the issue had been answered both on the forum and on reddit. You gonna need to do all the different Islands on different scale to reach level 100.

If they don’t allow swamp over and over again, then put on your business suits because there’s going to be a good market for selling fractals (or is there one already, I can’t remember the conclusion of the selling-fractals-thread).

You can do swamp over and over. You just progress with daily achievements. Also selling will be a pain because you have to sell after every fractal instead of 4 fractals.

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

What does time have to do with it? Why should any type of challenge be hidden behind a time requirement?

I did that whole hours of raiding thing, I very much enjoy the shorter times newer games require of me. it allows me to pop in and complete something then bounce out if I need instead of being locked in (unless I want to abandon my team and the rewards I worked towards earning).

I think 15-30 mins is a perfect time. Want to take longer, well then do another! See you always have that choice to grind multiple fractals over however long you want, but if you make them take an hour or more then those that can’t devote that time are simply left out. Not because they can’t handle the challenge, but because they can’t guarantee their time.

i have the feeling that vertical progression is going to be 1-50 and 51+ will be more horizontal. “fractal levels” is the simplest way to add to existing content, because its already implemented and scalable. if they add a new fractal, perhaps it will end up being level 101-110, with 10 progressively more challenging mistlocks, and then anet doesnt need to reseed the entire level groupings/pairings. i kinda think that we are fully intended to get to the max level after weve reached 50 and passed the gear investment gate, so that we have the ability to open whatever the daily is. since the daily will most likely pick a random scale within the reward tier, thats gonna be the “fractal of the day” that everyone wants to do, whether its cliffside or swamp. i think the concept of attaching “what your fractal level is” to “your ability to do fractals” will be a lot less meaningful at 51+, which is perfectly ok if anet intends to add levels 101+ at some point in the future.

but as always, need to play it to see i guess.

Jerus.4350:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

What does time have to do with it? Why should any type of challenge be hidden behind a time requirement?

I did that whole hours of raiding thing, I very much enjoy the shorter times newer games require of me. it allows me to pop in and complete something then bounce out if I need instead of being locked in (unless I want to abandon my team and the rewards I worked towards earning).

I think 15-30 mins is a perfect time. Want to take longer, well then do another! See you always have that choice to grind multiple fractals over however long you want, but if you make them take an hour or more then those that can’t devote that time are simply left out. Not because they can’t handle the challenge, but because they can’t guarantee their time.

It’s about the willingness to put in the time and effort.

I know life is annoying and often times not fair, but dumbing down the barrier to entry is not the right way to go about getting people in.

How is it dumbing down to just shorten the time it takes?

Dumbing down would be making it easier to do. I guess you could say that it’s easier to fit in your schedule but god, how is that a bad thing?

People often link casual as being unskilled, but that just isn’t true. It’s often the case but it’s not a given.

I think the answer to “what’s keeping everyone from only doing fractal level X because it’s fractal Y and/or has instability Z?” is going to be the Daily Fractal Achievements. If Anet makes so that the only way to earn pristine relics and get the best (or only) chance for ascended chests and rings from bouncy chests is the daily fractal meta rewards, then people will have no choice but to do several types of fractals and instabilities in order to get the best possible fractal rewards.

Granted, it will depend a lot on what kind and how many dailies that Anet use for these daily tiers. I’m kinda hoping it’s something like 3 out of 6 required, with one or two being a specific level range for that tier, and the rest split between having to do a specific fractals (always including one of the boss fractals), and/or instabilities, depending on how many there and how frequently a specific instability might show up. Maybe even call out a specific fractal level for an achivement. Another thing would be to also have the Daily Recommended Fractal Achievement mentioned in the news post give better rewards on it’s own than others as well as an extra incentive to do something other than Swamp all day and all night.

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

And once you wipe few times per fight, that 1 hour becomes 3-4 hours.

Wethospu.6437:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

And once you wipe few times per fight, that 1 hour becomes 3-4 hours.

I spent 2 hours at molten duo because I was stubborn and tried to solo on thief when my group kept dying. Oh the memories.

So to the people saying they are happy that they can do it faster, how would you feel about higher levels increasing the number of shards required to complete it? We could argue later over where to increase it but just the act of increasing it until eventually ending up with 1(kind of predetermined scale because always reroll for swamp) and then 3 random shards? I ask this because some people enjoy the randomness that went along with not knowing which fractal you would get next. There is already quick content for people that want it: dungeons. But if they want to make fractals more like dungeons to make it more accessible that is understandable. But there are still dungeons that take a good chunk of time and are difficult: arah p4. So i don’t think it is too much to ask to keep some fractals long and difficult.

Therodin.2970:

So to the people saying they are happy that they can do it faster, how would you feel about higher levels increasing the number of shards required to complete it? We could argue later over where to increase it but just the act of increasing it until eventually ending up with 1(kind of predetermined scale because always reroll for swamp) and then 3 random shards? I ask this because some people enjoy the randomness that went along with not knowing which fractal you would get next. There is already quick content for people that want it: dungeons. But if they want to make fractals more like dungeons to make it more accessible that is understandable. But there are still dungeons that take a good chunk of time and are difficult: arah p4. So i don’t think it is too much to ask to keep some fractals long and difficult.

I for one don’t like the randomness. It just adds another layer of “what if” to my daily fractal pugs. I find getting volcanic on the second or third fractal is pretty much a guaranteed failure for the majority of pugs at scale 40+, because despite having the requisite AR and such, no one seems to know how to fight the imbued shaman.

Wethospu.6437:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

And once you wipe few times per fight, that 1 hour becomes 3-4 hours.

And opening up the availability only increases the odds of wiping as you have more people who generally don’t actually care to learn the fights or the mechanics joining because they can.

IE dumbing down the content. Maybe the phrase dumbing down is hurting peoples feelings and its more of Watering Down or Lowering the Barrier to entry. Either way for “End game content” do you really want every joe and sally in there ?

I hope they make 50+ swamp insanely difficult to the point that it becomes the most dreaded fractal.

Therodin.2970:

So to the people saying they are happy that they can do it faster, how would you feel about higher levels increasing the number of shards required to complete it? We could argue later over where to increase it but just the act of increasing it until eventually ending up with 1(kind of predetermined scale because always reroll for swamp) and then 3 random shards? I ask this because some people enjoy the randomness that went along with not knowing which fractal you would get next. There is already quick content for people that want it: dungeons. But if they want to make fractals more like dungeons to make it more accessible that is understandable. But there are still dungeons that take a good chunk of time and are difficult: arah p4. So i don’t think it is too much to ask to keep some fractals long and difficult.

If they want to incorporate a random set they should do it as a bonus thing. Maybe a single daily of “fractal tour” which is opened by someone inside Dessa’s lab and you run through 4 for the day once, then follow through with the rest of your stuff for t he day. First instance being whatever level you run it on, then 3 randoms within that scale of 10 levels.

I like the idea of having freedom to do the singles, I enjoy the fact that they won’t be things I have to plan to be in for an hour or more just in case. I don’t want the higher level ones to fall back intot he same thing and get rid of that… kitten no.

But, I do see value in the random thing, it can be fun, as a bonus on top it seems like a good idea to me. Making the general plan for daily fractals being like start with the tour at the bonus map of the day, then cycle through them pick up most dailies and then finish out any of the other dailies with single fractals. Or if you’re more crunched for time, just grab a few quicker dailies with the single runs and be done.

TexZero.7910:

Wethospu.6437:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

And once you wipe few times per fight, that 1 hour becomes 3-4 hours.

And opening up the availability only increases the odds of wiping as you have more people who generally don’t actually care to learn the fights or the mechanics joining because they can.

IE dumbing down the content. Maybe the phrase dumbing down is hurting peoples feelings and its more of Watering Down or Lowering the Barrier to entry. Either way for “End game content” do you really want every joe and sally in there ?

Because people who don’t have much time in the game surely spend a ton of time to get ascended and AR and work their personal reward levels up, and then do fractals where they’re gonna spend most of their time dying… yup that’s what a person who isn’t up to spending over an hour on something will be doing.

It’s simply making things more convenient to play. It’s not changing the difficulty at all. Sure I can choose to avoid the harder fractals but hey, if you’re worried about dumbing down so much, do the harder ones, you can bet the baddies won’t be doing those levels and you can have your own little play ground.

Jerus.4350:

TexZero.7910:

Wethospu.6437:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t really agree with end game dungeon content being open to people who arent willing to put in 1hr at a time.

There’s plenty of other dungeons for those that can only commit 20 minutes a day.

And once you wipe few times per fight, that 1 hour becomes 3-4 hours.

And opening up the availability only increases the odds of wiping as you have more people who generally don’t actually care to learn the fights or the mechanics joining because they can.

IE dumbing down the content. Maybe the phrase dumbing down is hurting peoples feelings and its more of Watering Down or Lowering the Barrier to entry. Either way for “End game content” do you really want every joe and sally in there ?

Because people who don’t have much time in the game surely spend a ton of time to get ascended and AR and work their personal reward levels up, and then do fractals where they’re gonna spend most of their time dying… yup that’s what a person who isn’t up to spending over an hour on something will be doing.

It’s simply making things more convenient to play. It’s not changing the difficulty at all. Sure I can choose to avoid the harder fractals but hey, if you’re worried about dumbing down so much, do the harder ones, you can bet the baddies won’t be doing those levels and you can have your own little play ground.

You mean like all the people who played fractals at their inception and first rework ?
Those guys who put hours in to learn and optimize the play time ? No way…who would have guessed there’s people out there that actually put time into things and failed only to not give up and wait for someone else to show them how to easymode it, then come to the forums and complain that it’s not easy enough.

Fractals as is, are easy. The time commitment isn’t that much unless here’s the kicker, you’re new. If you party with people who know what they are doing and actually support eachother your runs wont take longer that 45 minutes for a 50.

That said I fully intend to do the higher level ones at release so i can get ahead of the casual crowd that will cause your new “30 minute runs” to be an agonizing 2hour affair.

Still don’t see any reasonable explanation as to why a different time commitment changes difficulty.

You’re worried a bunch of casuals will join your PUGs, fine, I think it’s worrying for no reason but hey you can worry. But, please explain yourself as to how something that takes 15 minutes or takes an hour has any affect on difficulty.

Jerus.4350:

Still don’t see any reasonable explanation as to why a different time commitment changes difficulty.

You’re worried a bunch of casuals will join your PUGs, fine, I think it’s worrying for no reason but hey you can worry. But, please explain yourself as to how something that takes 15 minutes or takes an hour has any affect on difficulty.

I have explained that numerous times but you’ve been oblivious to it.

Why on gods green earth do we need “END GAME” content to take 15minutes ?
The length should not be an artificial timer designed that way. The content should remain in the state its in because it separates itself as something unique, not every other dungeon that already exist that can be done sub 5 minutes.

I think you’re coming from they hyper casual camp here where if you can’t no one else can and that’s the worst possible approach to designing something that is supposed to be for those people who absolutely want to dedicate time and energy learning something which is what END GAME type content should be. Notice they are removing one of those crucial things ?

Personnaly, I’m not super happy that they shorten the fractal. For me it Fractal = longer content and dungeon = shorter content. For me it doesn’t make sense to have only short content.

But, I think that they changed it because of that incoming challenging group content. Think about it. In the post they said and I quote.

‘’… we view fractals as our infinitely expandable, endgame version of 5-man dungeon content … ’’

‘’… focusing on making sure the ones you experience will be truly challenging as you progress deeper into the fractals … ’’

So for me it seem that the new challenging group content will be for group of more than 5 people and Anet maybe want that content to be longer in time, so now it make sense to not have both Fractal and Challenging group content being time consuming challenging content.

And that still is an implication without a reason. You’re saying it should take time and energy to learn new challenging high end content. I totally agree. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t need to be designed to take an hour for it to be good content. And, that content designed to be done in 5 minutes could greatly exceed that hour long content in difficulty.

While learning, it wouldn’t be surprising to spend 5X the amount of time on something that you do once you’re farming it daily. So if you design something to take 1 hour for your normal run, well that could vary probably from 30-45 mins all the way to like 4-5 hours depending on your familiarity with the content and skill.

I am very glad games have moved away from the 10+ hour raids of my past and towards 15-30 minute content. Initially that 15 minute content could be hour content, and at the end we could have it down to 5 minutes, but point is they try to design with an average in mind and I’m glad that it’s lower.

Personally I’m a bit more hardcore, just don’t always have the ability or sometimes desire to lock myself in for an hour+, so that’s where my personal opinion lies on this. That said there have been many nights I’ll knock out a full fractal tour then hop and do a few more 50’s for fun, so no, not hyper casual just appreciative of the design change many games have made in that direction.

papry.8096:

That’s great info but …well reddit. -_-

Don’t you know? These forums are obsolete and are only to sweep the ranting and raging under. -_-