People are a lot less mad at DnT than they are enjoying a case of the birds coming home to roost. You might not think that’s a terribly postiive attitude either, but you don’t get to be tastemaker any more than I do, do you?
I think this is probably true for a lot of us.
I’m not mad at DnT, but I do think it’s quite funny that they got shot down for acting like a bunch of trolly children. What they did was extremely childish, disrespectful to both Anet and the rest of the community, and potentially damaging others’ opinions of the raid.
DnT should have just quietly went about their business after testing was done and raids released. Better yet, they should have waited until some other guilds completed it before doing so themselves. Or at least refrained abusing an unfair advantage of getting the end rewards before anyone else had a chance to.
Someone mentioned earlier that some DnT members were bragging/showing off high-priced items they got from the raid. If they were taking advantage of their experience as testers to make a profit from selling those things, I think those players should be dealt with much more harshly.
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I’m not seeing what they did as problematic or that they were being ‘elitist jerks’. I didn’t take their comments on twitter to be a serious jab at Arenanet, the players or the game, hence my comment you people need to lighten up. The hypersensitivity surrounding this community is astounding.
It’s not about hypersensitivity, it’s the fact that what the person on Twitter did was potentially harming the actual game, or at least players’ opinion of it. This tweet is being referenced as to how much of a “joke” Guild Wars 2 raids are, and it’s really disingenuous considering the fact that they only cleared it quickly because ArenaNet trusted them with access to their testing server. Most people don’t know this, especially those who might have otherwise been hooked into this content.
If you don’t understand why it’s a problem for a group to be using that trust to harm the game, then you’ll never understand.
Try getting a list of examples that number in the double digits before you start throwing around words like “culture of Anet employees harassing and bullying the players”.
So…I need an entire compendium of examples to defend what I say? There’s way more than a few. Instead of challenging the examples I brought up, you defend Anet’s stance and lack of apology or accountability?
That’s what “a culture of _” means. Two or three examples isn’t even a trend.
Feel free to actually learn the meaning of terms before using them.
Personally so happy that DnT are finally being publically recognized for the arrogant negative influence they have on the community. (Ignoring Nemesis’ comments here before anyone jumps on that bandwagon) DnT have been providing guides that have simplified the mindset of the community into Zerker! Zerker! Zerker! without consideration for the necessary support that is actually required to support this.
FIrst of all, every guide they publish is full of group support. Don’t know what your talking about here. Maybe your too stuck in the mentality that group support has to be healing.
Second. Negative impact? Last I checked, DnT was a guild actually hosting community events such as the trio tournaments. Something Anet couldn’t even bother to post a single message about. Meanwhile anet throws how much money at pvp tournaments #esports? Remember when brazil was in DnT and he made videos actively trying to make non ‘meta’ classes more accepted? When he specifically spoke out against exclusion of players, and generally preached that any class was good enough,so just having fun? Remember when they speed ran with a ranger? Or a necro? Even though they don’t always agree with nemesis I see nothing but helpful behavior on their own forums towards him (http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/23381991-lf-elementalist-icebow-lupicus-solo). And even recently, when there is endless complaining about the dungeon nerf and fractal nerf, the majority of Nike’s posts are related to actual content (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/NikeEU-7690/showposts) rather than just endlessly pushing the gloomy atmosphere in this subforum, even if admittedly sometimes he is confrontational.
I can’t say whether I approve or not of their handling of raids, I don’t have all the facts. But I can say that your belief that they have had a negative impact on the game is not at all obvious to me.
They could’ve avoided this, we don’t see Attuned making fools of themselves with yesterday’s raids being released.
We all knew Attuned and Death and Taxes had been selected for raid testing; THAT was the real recognition of their guild.
Of course, any guild given early access to raids in testing are invalidated in any claim to official world first at release, it’s a given. That they post about it is disrespectful of the community of competitive guilds that do have world firsts as ambitions.
DnT could’ve enjoyed this recognition as one of the hardcore guilds that were selected for testing and creating the challenging raids for the rest of us, instead they squandered that opportunity and their boast has only got them kicked from the programme and now they’re ridiculed.
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My opinion is I am upset that ANET caved to the complainers this time. What DNT did has absolutly no real world impact or in game impact on them. They don’t like somthing they read on twitter that had nothing to do about them boo hoo.
This is my opinion I grew up in a generation where we didn’t cry to get what we want if you did that you were called a wimp and were told to man up. Obviously people have the right to cry foul when something is not PC now. But I don’t think this is even in the same boat as PC. People just are bumhurt.
I wish ANET would listen more to its player base about other more important issues. Like PVP balance. State of warriors and Theifs. How unhappy people are with WvW right now. Instead they devote their time to caving to complaints like this. It’s sad its why this game is so bad.
We need to make America great again.
It seems to be a new phenomena that a company making a decision someone disagrees with is always ‘Caving to whiners’.
Honestly, I don’t believe you. The only people I’ve actually encountered who speak in the manner that you do are children and adolescents who are trying to come across as hard, you know, the kind that claim to be elite members of the armed forces in place of making actual points.
It’s simply good business to distance yourself from representatives that actively try and cause strife within your customer base. DnT offer nothing to them that several other of the similarly large guilds cannot, and probably would be happy to provide, so, from a simple analysis of the costs vs the benefits, their action makes complete sense.
While you may wish for them to devote the time to other issues, you need to take into consideration something. It takes virtually no time for Arena.Net to simply remove those people from their program, and it probably saves them time by mitigating the amount of damage control that they’ll need to do in order to keep their paying customers from turning against them.
1) Rightful action by Anet to remove problematic testers from their program
2) Entirely natural schadenfreude that you get when people are jerks and then immediately get blown up for being jerks.
People are a lot less mad at DnT than they are enjoying a case of the birds coming home to roost. You might not think that’s a terribly postiive attitude either, but you don’t get to be tastemaker any more than I do, do you?
I’m not seeing what they did as problematic or that they were being ‘elitist jerks’. I didn’t take their comments on twitter to be a serious jab at Arenanet, the players or the game, hence my comment you people need to lighten up. The hyper-sensitivity surrounding this community is astounding.
Any company employing testers would see it that way, it’s a pretty clearcut case of something you don’t want representing or associated with your company.
More importantly, try to think outside of your own head. It’s not that hard to get why others would see bragging #first (especially in this context) as obnoxious behavior. (I never said elitist though, you inserted that). You may not agree, but you’ve got to understand.
yep that’s exactly the thing. Also the bad AD, where for not well informed people it seems that first Raid in GW2 was cleaned within first hours in 15 minutes…
You invited raiding guilds to beta test your raids, did you really think they wouldn’t go for #WorldFirst at release? Did anet really just left the raid tuned to DnT and not throw any loops to make it harder for them on day one? Also did no one follow raiding in WoW? I mean there are guilds that get sponsors for racing to world first kills. Did you really expect a guild like DnT wouldn’t race to kill the very first GW2 10 man raid boss??
Also… reading the first couple pages of this thread, and seeing what has transpired… LOL.
grabs more popcorn I really did miss the raid drama from eq and wow, thanks for bringing it to gw2 as well!
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
TBH, they are the ones promoting this bad behavior of the elitism in this game. They have created this false idea of a “meta” and the community is severely harmed by this.
Sooo i m glad arenanet takes few steps away from them.
The only thing harming the community is the existence of sheep like you believing what Nemesis says. There is no such thing as the “idea of a meta”, there is a metagame just like in all other games, the definition of it being what stands out in terms of efficiency to complete the content. If you aren’t even able to grasp this, go back to killing does in Queen’s Dale.
So you are one of these “only meta zerker” on fractal lvl5 guyz…. Keep doing what u do… i ll keep doing what i do.
WOW! much hate! so salt …. wow …
Thank god Brazil wasn’t there anymore, he doesn’t have to be Dragged in to this mess xD. Now, considering what happened, this seems a problem with the Guild Master allowing such thing’s. I don’t know the guild but i know how this thing’s go around, has back in WoW we had this ’ Best guild in the server’ thing’s going on, and a imature guild master could destroy a Guild. I don’t know who the GM in this case is , but good job mate, you fail has one.
Am I the only one hearing how salty anet is that the raid can be speed cleared in 15 mins. Also lol as little as people are gonna want to admit it, the future raids are only gonna be speed cleared even faster of there is only a world boss guild testing it.
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Lol, people actually care about this kind of stuff in GW2? I mean, the PvE is okay… I guess… well, it’s probably some of the better PvE you can find without a subscription, but really now. If you’re going to lose your mind over ‘world first’ bragging from a tester guild, you probably need to up your game and start dropping a monthly sub for FFXIV or WoW or something, because this you’ve officially leveled up your hardcore scumbag mastery beyond what this game has to offer you.
Kinda hilarious to see anet throw an entire guild under the bus over something so benign, though. Now if they could just throw some of that gusto into balancing PvP, that’d be great. Yeah.
Am I the only one hearing how salty anet is that the raid can be speed cleared in 15 mins. Also lol as little as people are gonna want to admit it, the future raids are only gonna be speed cleared even faster of there is only a world boss guild testing it.
I think they’re fine with raids being eventually on farm. During twitchcon Colin made a comparison between raids and Elite zone from GW1. Those zones were hard at the beginning but I remember having speed cleared The Deep 2 years after release. The farmable state is ok from their side I think.
Now the fact that a guild send a message towards the entire gaming community that the raid is done 15 minutes after release (some forum exploded saying how Anet was bad at Raid designing) while only GW2 community knew they were in the testing crew was a bad advertisement for the game hence their reaction. From what I’ve seen DnT had no intention to makes raids appear as bad since in all post I’ve read they claim it was fun.
On top of that I think the message saying that they got a 900 g reward thanks to their “insider” position was not clever and may have annoyed the company.
What is bad for DnT though is that Anet’s message states they were granted access to the three wings… so anything they will do in those three wings will be simply disregarded by the players…
The raid DIDN’T in fact get beaten within 15 minutes. That was just pure BS. Check out this twitter post by DnT attempting some backpedaling damage control:
The raid DIDN’T in fact get beaten within 15 minutes. That was just pure BS. Check out this twitter post by DnT attempting some backpedaling damage control:
The raid DIDN’T in fact get beaten within 15 minutes. That was just pure BS. Check out this twitter post by DnT attempting some backpedaling damage control:
The raid DIDN’T in fact get beaten within 15 minutes. That was just pure BS. Check out this twitter post by DnT attempting some backpedaling damage control:
But in those cases the first message is one of the most important, it was not done in a right manner. Add to this the salt banner, and other , let’s say, not too humble messages and you get this. Communication is important in any circumstances because it our way to interact. It shouldn’t be taken so lightly. After we all complain so much how Anet has some improvements to do in that field we have here a good example how players also lack some good way of communicating.
The worst is that this story is sad for everyone : Anet because they have to publicly take measures against players who’ve helped them a lot, DnT because their input in the content will never be recognized and for us because it will be more difficult to find high-end game guild to continue this work.
The raid DIDN’T in fact get beaten within 15 minutes. That was just pure BS. Check out this twitter post by DnT attempting some backpedaling damage control:
But in those cases the first message is one of the most important, it was not done in a right manner. Add to this the salt banner, and other , let’s say, not too humble messages and you get this. Communication is important in any circumstances because it our way to interact. It shouldn’t be taken so lightly. After we all complain so much how Anet has some improvements to do in that field we have here a good example how players also lack some good way of communicating.
The worst is that this story is sad for everyone : Anet because they have to publicly take measures against players who’ve helped them a lot, DnT because their input in the content will never be recognized and for us because it will be more difficult to find high-end game guild to continue this work.
Nevermind the fact they openly admitted to trying to profit from their beta knowledge… yeah bunch of classy folks just trying to “help” the community…
because their input in the content will never be recognized and for us because it will be more difficult to find high-end game guild to continue this work.
I think calling DnT a “high-end game guild” is pretty much a huge insult to actual top tier PvE guilds (as far as they exist in this game lol).
Even tho me, and probably a lot of other people, respect their efforts in hosting community events such as the trio tournament, this is just another confirmation that their guild leader is just an arrogant 12 year old.
DnT barely did any records, and the records that they did were just complete copies from previous records, but done faster because of new patches buffing professions.
I think its utterly disrespectful and arrogant how they acted towards the community, and towards Arenanet that trusted them, and allowed them early access to their content, and even their guildies, that had nothing to do with this situation, what a great example towards them!
And even if it wasn’t Nike that posted the tweets, like he claimed, I think many of us remember certain Reddit threads and posts on their forums that should have excluded them from partnership in the first place.
Very happy that Anet made this decision and set a precedent.
DnT was given a great opportunity and privilege to be recognized and improve the game, and they paid back Arenanet and the community with unprofessional and childish behaviour.
Distancing themselves from such immaturity was the least Anet could do.
It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime.
What better place than here? What better time than now?
Am I the only one hearing how salty anet is that the raid can be speed cleared in 15 mins. Also lol as little as people are gonna want to admit it, the future raids are only gonna be speed cleared even faster of there is only a world boss guild testing it.
there are time limits on the bosses….. it’s not like you can run the raid at your own pace and get it done in an hour. you literally have to speed clear it.
but… i agree about only having a world boss guild testing it.
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Arenanet and this community need to lighten up. Who cares if they claim to be first, of course they would be. This was obviously going to to be the case when they decided to give early access to players. If you’re hurt that you and your guild aren’t first simply tell yourselves that they don’t count. It isn’t like WoW where you get an achievement for getting world first.
That’s why they got kicked out: because they’re arrogant, gloating kittens, because they disrespected anet, bragged about raids and implied they were easy to clear and decided to spit in this amazing opportunity they had; not because they “claimed” world first (after testing the raid for weeks). Here, educate yourself and let’s see if you manage to find a caveat to keep defending them poor oppressed people.
Id be more embarrased if they couldnt complete the raid immediately after a months practise. So its nothing to do with claiming first as others have said. Although that certainly is part of it in the sense that its a disrepectful claim with no clearly stated context.
How can a guild with such a high popularity be so arrogant and feel like gods after clearing PUGable content and training for a month?
I hope all the “copy pasterino builds from DnT players” will stop beeing disrespectful one day…
Good Job Anet for a very quick answer to such bad behaviour. That shows us that you care about your playerbase
Lol it’s not about the playerbase, its about the bad publicity from becoming a laughingstock if everyone heard their hyped up raid content got speed cleared in 15 mins on release day and the only thing stopping it from becoming a pseudo-farmable dungeon was the weekly reward cap.
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Ruins of Surmia
For once, I don’t mind another “Open World Boss guild” (like this one) to become a raid tester. At least they are openly honest about their skill level and genuinely excited about and committed to a challenge that it is refreshing to see their opinions on it.
Rather than some individuals think they are better than everyone else, but always try to taxi to the “Open World Boss Guild”- organizing maps to profit off others’ hard labor.
Just my two cents.
Also, congratulations to DnT for the world #first removal.
“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”
Lol it’s not about the playerbase, its about the bad publicity from becoming a laughingstock if everyone heard their hyped up raid content got speed cleared in 15 mins on release day and the only thing stopping it from becoming a pseudo-farmable dungeon was the weekly reward cap.
Spoiler Alert: They didn’t actually clear it in 15 minutes.
I am not sure how I am suppose to feel about it. Anet could of simply disbanded their guild, suspended their accounts or even issues bans. Considering they likely did not break the NDA , Anet has no authority to do this.
However, Karma is a B. Publicly announcing DNT’s removal from this program was ingenious. Let them get shamed by the community, discredited and boo’ed at. Let them start turning on each other within their guild, see how long they last. Anet just sits back and chuckles.
Then again it is just a video game so I do not care none the less
I have this feeling lately that everything is pushed out before arenanet even thinks about the consequences that decisions is going to have.
Inviting a raid guild to try out the raids and not expect them to take #worldfirst is stupid. I don’t play hardcore, but I see that this is a great way to destroy the community for those guilds that’s been waiting for this for a long time. They really need to slow everything down and think before they release stuff.
Sad to see that DnT took advantage of this and destroyed the first wing for a lot of people. But what did you expect for a guild that has a bad reputation in most games they are active in. What did you think inviting them lol?
Not gonna say what ppl here already said. They did bad, and deserved it.
My question is: What about their feedback, not only DnT, but the Att too? Was it any good? How did they contribute to the raid quality? Or they just played it and it was done? To me, seeing that in one month they were able memorize the stuff and, because of that, did the “speed run” (lol, what a joke for a weekly thing) totally destroyed the feedback part. Probably this will cost the quality of the next raid wings, even the next raids.
Thanks a lot for the possibility of ruining stuff ppl paid for.
Samuel Hart – lvl 80 Necro and 20 more toons… well. Yeah.
I have this feeling lately that everything is pushed out before arenanet even thinks about the consequences that decisions is going to have.
Inviting a raid guild to try out the raids and not expect them to take #worldfirst is stupid. I don’t play hardcore, but I see that this is a great way to destroy the community for those guilds that’s been waiting for this for a long time. They really need to slow everything down and think before they release stuff.
Sad to see that DnT took advantage of this and destroyed the first wing for a lot of people. But what did you expect for a guild that has a bad reputation in most games they are active in. What did you think inviting them lol?
It worked for the other testers, Anet just expected adults to act like adults.
Is anyone really surprised? I mean… this is the calibre of their leader after all.
Yeah, Hes consistently rude and patronizing.
Calling peoples friends scrubs and saying maybe one day some “Good players” will carry them among many other condescending posts. Why would Anet want to associate with that?
Anet didn’t attack anyone. They told you who was testing and now they’re telling you who is removed from testing. There is no attack, Arenanet thanked them for the help testing and explained their reasoning. Nobody knows the agreement that was made, Clearly DnT broke that in some way and thus Arenanet is telling you they’re not testing anymore and it’s their own fault. Why should they get a backlash from a ton of people for dropping DnT when everyone finds out?
In response some of their guild attempted to clutch at straws with an NDA arguement saying they was “Not able to tell people they was testing” when the first post in this thread from a MONTH AGO clearly says they are testing it.
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Anet did the right thing. But they also got what they payed for. Why they invited dnt in the first place is what is bothering me. They have had a elitist view since the beginning. I thought that was the type of community Anet did not want to foster. This is what happens when you go against your word.
The bigger issue is that people have short enough attention spans. The fact that you have people that have been at the content for a month and have insider information completes the new content on day one and then announces it without additional information leads other sources to say, look what’s the point. This directly impacts player’s impressions, sales and subscriber bases. It just sets a really bad form. This is also the kind of kitten that further requires more and more legal bindings in contracts and licensing and makes life more complicated in general for gamers where as gamers just kind of want to game. Now on top of that, profiting in game from it is just added insult. Don’t actually care about the raid content but that was in such bad form in various ways that makes you shake your head.
I don’t understand why Anet is being blamed here. Compare this situation to Martha Stewart / stock market. In the stock market, having information that isn’t available to the public and using that to gain advantage is insider trading. Translate that to GW2. DnT had access to knowledge for an entire month and used it to their advantage. Now, had DnT not gone public with their “glorious” kill, their use of said information would have been meaningless. However, they used the information to gain publicity and to do something publicly before anyone else would even have a chance. All of this was in poor sportsmanship and against the spirit in which Anet invited them to test. They got exactly what they deserved.
So many people are missing the point, Anet is 100% justified and could take actions further if they so chose.
Raiding or Hard Core Raiding is very much a popular game mode across all MMO’s. Those Competitive Guilds do move from game to game to conquer new content very much in the same way that PvP’rs look for new games where they can conquer and become #1 across multiple games.
Now if you are not in the know you wouldn’t have been aware that DnT tested the raids, how many Competitive Raiding Guilds were looking in GW2’s direction for their next slice of pie ? Of those guilds how many will now avoid the game and its raids like the plague because they have received half the story and an extremely important half at that.
These actions have probably cost Anet a good chunk of the Hard Core Raiding community that is out there on the hunt for the “next best thing” I’m of the opinion which ever member(s) were involved should be banned from GW2. Those members directly impacted the running of the business and it’s ability to produce more revenue with their childish ignorant social media posts.
