Guild Wars 2

The way arenanet enforces time gating pretty much screws over anyone with more than one character.

This change is consistent with their terrible design policy. “WANT TO GEAR UP MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER? TOUGH SH!% PLAY THE GAME OUR WAY OR GTFO”

I just feel bad for new players. Don’t MMOs typically make older gear EASIER and FASTER to obtain as the game ages?

Even in the runs I did yesterday I saw a lot of new players (although they insist the know the dungeon their behavior speaks for itself). Also they all insist on killing all champions…

Heck, I insist we fight the Champions, too.
Only reason I’d have now to sacrifice my daily Kohler is if I was worried the group might not be able to handle it. Not that that’s been a problem so far. It’s not like people were previously avoiding these things because they were super duper challenging.

Generally speaking,
I get how this keeps alts from being an advantage, but I don’t get how it makes alts a disadvantage or how it would keep you from playing whatever the heck you want to play in a dungeon. Unless, of course, you rolled an alt specifically for said advantage and not out of any genuine desire to play the class.

ForGreatJustice.3452:

I just feel bad for new players. Don’t MMOs typically make older gear EASIER and FASTER to obtain as the game ages?

Certainly not in GW1.

Kirschwasser.3972:

ForGreatJustice.3452:

I just feel bad for new players. Don’t MMOs typically make older gear EASIER and FASTER to obtain as the game ages?

Certainly not in GW1.

Hmm… good point based on what I hear from my friends regarding that game.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Even in the runs I did yesterday I saw a lot of new players (although they insist the know the dungeon their behavior speaks for itself). Also they all insist on killing all champions…

Generally speaking,
I get how this keeps alts from being an advantage, but I don’t get how it makes alts a disadvantage or how it would keep you from playing whatever the heck you want to play in a dungeon. Unless, of course, you rolled an alt specifically for said advantage and not out of any genuine desire to play the class.

If you played 8 chars, you are supposed to have some degree of advantage of something over others who only have 1 char. Because you spent time investing on them. Leveing them take a lot of time! The way it goes now, a new player who just pick up a game from the store and play one char will gain the same amount of things comparing to an old player who play the game for the whloe year. Just simply unfair.

Surely you will have fun playing different ones from time to time, but with the limited play time every day you will gradually pick a main to play. So having the other 7 gave you an adcantage of getting more tokens in a short time when you need the tokens from time to time. Again this nerf just put you into the shoes of a new player. They make a fool of old player that is all.

I’m firm believer in rolling an alt because you want to play the class, not for more efficient farming. But I hear and understand your desire for older players to have some way to distinguish themselves and stand out. I don’t think this should be financially based, because anything tied to gold is ultimately circumventable through the Gemstore.

The only dungeon path I run are:

• Arah – all 4
• CoE P3
• CoF P3
• TA F/U
• CM – all 3

And that’s it… why should i be forced to do the other path if I want 60 tokens ? The other path are plain boring… having 60 tokens when I switched alt was a nice addition and was helping getting the armor for alts.

If Anet wants us in other path / dungeon, maybe they should make them more interesting fight wise!

Edit:

• Sure we can go do other dungeons for stats we want… but I don’t like other dungeon skins that give the stats I want, and the other dungeon don’t provide the stats I want… so nope… not gonna run them…

Why should I be forced to do any dungeon for the tokens? I like the way Arah armor looks but don’t like Arah at all. Why should I be forced to do any of the paths?

I hope you see what I’m getting at regarding your logic.

I wish that I had known this nerf thing was coming. I recently spent all my CoE, CoF, HotW, and Arah tokens on rares to salvage for ectos for Sunrise. A guildie criticized me and I said it wasn’t a big deal because, with 6 80s, getting the tokens back wasn’t a big deal. Now, I’m regretting my decision.

I enjoy some dungeon paths enough to run them multiple times a day as long as I’m getting tokens and some silver out of them. Now, I’ll get almost no tokens and very little silver. Guess I’ll just run a path once a day and move on.

I’m a little bummed because multiple dungeon runs was one of the only times I played some of my alts, aside from Ori farming. Now I’m worried they’ll make ori account bound. Better get my last few runs in, just in case!

Who this will hurt the most are my guildies who log on later than most and will want to run a dungeon, but the majority of us have already gotten our daily rewards. Prime time or bust!

[EDIT] for those saying these changes will make people more likely to run more paths of each dungeon, I’m gonna call BS on that. 1g will not make people run SE2 or TA F/U, or even CoF3, and 3g is still hardly an incentive for me to run Arah4 a third time.

I always predicted that it would be intended because knowing A-net they cant just give us something without taking something away.

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

BBMouse.6510:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Even in the runs I did yesterday I saw a lot of new players (although they insist the know the dungeon their behavior speaks for itself). Also they all insist on killing all champions…

Generally speaking,
I get how this keeps alts from being an advantage, but I don’t get how it makes alts a disadvantage or how it would keep you from playing whatever the heck you want to play in a dungeon. Unless, of course, you rolled an alt specifically for said advantage and not out of any genuine desire to play the class.

If you played 8 chars, you are supposed to have some degree of advantage of something over others who only have 1 char. Because you spent time investing on them. Leveing them take a lot of time! The way it goes now, a new player who just pick up a game from the store and play one char will gain the same amount of things comparing to an old player who play the game for the whloe year. Just simply unfair.

Surely you will have fun playing different ones from time to time, but with the limited play time every day you will gradually pick a main to play. So having the other 7 gave you an adcantage of getting more tokens in a short time when you need the tokens from time to time. Again this nerf just put you into the shoes of a new player. They make a fool of old player that is all.

I agree wholeheartedly. Personally having had leveled 8 level 80 characters, I now feel like my efforts have been completely devalued, and playing my other characters are now completely discouraged… I have to say this change is awfully depressing to those who have spent large amounts of time focusing in variety progression by leveling multiple characters. My alts now can only ever amount to a measly 20 dungeon tokens… frustrating to say the least.

Heylo.4938:

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

They didn’t farm tokens, no. But it gave you a kitten ton of tokens to spend. The point is – It forces players to play more than one dungeon a day, more than one path over and over a day. You’d get 360..ish tokens a day, and a decent amount of gold. Don’t forget that you can craft/buy your armor aswell.

olleandersson.9408:

Heylo.4938:

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

They didn’t farm tokens, no. But it gave you a kitten ton of tokens to spend. The point is – It forces players to play more than one dungeon a day, more than one path over and over a day. You’d get 360..ish tokens a day, and a decent amount of gold. Don’t forget that you can craft/buy your armor aswell.

With the current changes implemented, attaining 360 of the same tokens in one day would require one to run all three paths of that dungeon 4 repetitive times in a row, in theory, totaling in 12 consecutive runs of the same dungeon. Although, that isn’t even considering any additional diminishing returns you might hit after the second run for 20 tokens, in which case the number of runs would increase by much larger amounts after each following run. The only ideal amount of tokens the average willing player will now ever save in the period of one day is no more than 180 total tokens for 3 runs of a single dungeon.

Gary Bobby Ferguson.3980:

olleandersson.9408:

Heylo.4938:

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

They didn’t farm tokens, no. But it gave you a kitten ton of tokens to spend. The point is – It forces players to play more than one dungeon a day, more than one path over and over a day. You’d get 360..ish tokens a day, and a decent amount of gold. Don’t forget that you can craft/buy your armor aswell.

With the current changes implemented, attaining 360 of the same tokens in one day would require one to run all three paths of that dungeon 4 repetitive times in a row, in theory, totaling in 12 consecutive runs of the same dungeon. Although, that isn’t even considering any additional diminishing returns you might hit after the second run for 20 tokens, in which case the number of runs would increase by much larger amounts after each following run. The only ideal amount of tokens the average willing player will now ever save in the period of one day is no more than 180 total tokens for 3 runs of a single dungeon.

There isn’t just one dungeon to do, right? Apparently you don’t get it. For example, if you want the zerker armor, you do CoF path 1-3, doesn’t take you that long. That gives you 180 tokens, ~3g and some mats. After that, head over to CoE and do path 1-3, that gives you another 180 tokens (that would be 360 tokens in total), ~3g and some mats. You will most likely get some rares aswell. 360 tokens and 6g, that’s ~4 zerker parts (atleast 3) in 2 hours, how’s that not good enough for you? If you’re smart you buy the chest & shorts since you need most tokens for these parts and therefore you wont have to spend as many days doing this.

olleandersson.9408:

Gary Bobby Ferguson.3980:

olleandersson.9408:

Heylo.4938:

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

They didn’t farm tokens, no. But it gave you a kitten ton of tokens to spend. The point is – It forces players to play more than one dungeon a day, more than one path over and over a day. You’d get 360..ish tokens a day, and a decent amount of gold. Don’t forget that you can craft/buy your armor aswell.

With the current changes implemented, attaining 360 of the same tokens in one day would require one to run all three paths of that dungeon 4 repetitive times in a row, in theory, totaling in 12 consecutive runs of the same dungeon. Although, that isn’t even considering any additional diminishing returns you might hit after the second run for 20 tokens, in which case the number of runs would increase by much larger amounts after each following run. The only ideal amount of tokens the average willing player will now ever save in the period of one day is no more than 180 total tokens for 3 runs of a single dungeon.

There isn’t just one dungeon to do, right? Apparently you don’t get it. For example, if you want the zerker armor, you do CoF path 1-3, doesn’t take you that long. That gives you 180 tokens, ~3g and some mats. After that, head over to CoE and do path 1-3, that gives you another 180 tokens (that would be 360 tokens in total), ~3g and some mats. You will most likely get some rares aswell. 360 tokens and 6g, that’s ~4 zerker parts (atleast 3) in 2 hours, how’s that not good enough for you? If you’re smart you buy the chest & shorts since you need most tokens for these parts and therefore you wont have to spend as many days doing this.

Seriously? That is the best you can do? Run other dungeons? What if I don’t want to run other dungeons? Why would I run dungeons I don’t like the armor of? If I like a specific dungeon;s armor, I will run that dungeon as much as I please. You cannot force me to run dungeons I have nothing to gain from. This line of arguing is just such bullkitten.

Arsalan.5240:

olleandersson.9408:

Gary Bobby Ferguson.3980:

olleandersson.9408:

Heylo.4938:

olleandersson.9408:

As soon as it gets a little bit more… difficult, people will always cry. Players don’t want to do all paths of a dungeon, they only want to do the easy one to get their rewards as easy and fast as possible. Which is sad, i hope they keep the changes. This is the first time in months that i’ve visited gw2lfg without seeing ‘’LF3M ZERK WARRIORS PING OR KICK’’ all over the site, which is kittening awesome. I love it.

Lazy people will always be lazy. Get your crap together and try some different paths for exchange, i promise you that you won’t get bored as fast.

I don’t think zerk warriors were farming tokens, and even if you run all three paths, you still get less tokens than before.
Also, this change wont make people run the disliked paths. It’ll just make less people run paths in general.

Also also, I don’t think running all three paths on multiple characters makes you lazy, which is what quite a few people that I know did when they wanted tokens.

They didn’t farm tokens, no. But it gave you a kitten ton of tokens to spend. The point is – It forces players to play more than one dungeon a day, more than one path over and over a day. You’d get 360..ish tokens a day, and a decent amount of gold. Don’t forget that you can craft/buy your armor aswell.

With the current changes implemented, attaining 360 of the same tokens in one day would require one to run all three paths of that dungeon 4 repetitive times in a row, in theory, totaling in 12 consecutive runs of the same dungeon. Although, that isn’t even considering any additional diminishing returns you might hit after the second run for 20 tokens, in which case the number of runs would increase by much larger amounts after each following run. The only ideal amount of tokens the average willing player will now ever save in the period of one day is no more than 180 total tokens for 3 runs of a single dungeon.

There isn’t just one dungeon to do, right? Apparently you don’t get it. For example, if you want the zerker armor, you do CoF path 1-3, doesn’t take you that long. That gives you 180 tokens, ~3g and some mats. After that, head over to CoE and do path 1-3, that gives you another 180 tokens (that would be 360 tokens in total), ~3g and some mats. You will most likely get some rares aswell. 360 tokens and 6g, that’s ~4 zerker parts (atleast 3) in 2 hours, how’s that not good enough for you? If you’re smart you buy the chest & shorts since you need most tokens for these parts and therefore you wont have to spend as many days doing this.

Seriously? That is the best you can do? Run other dungeons? What if I don’t want to run other dungeons? Why would I run dungeons I don’t like the armor of? If I like a specific dungeon;s armor, I will run that dungeon as much as I please. You cannot force me to run dungeons I have nothing to gain from. This line of arguing is just such bullkitten.

‘’You cannot force me to run dungeons I have nothing to gain from’‘. Since it’s the same stats on the armor, you pretty much do gain something by doing it. If you’re not doing it just for the skin, ofcourse. I admit, i didn’t think of it like that since players complained about not getting exotics for their alts.

But then again, i didn’t get the skins i wanted in a day or two, took me quite some time to get it. 180 tokens a day, it will take you a week to get the skin you want. It’s not that bad if you ask me.

1 week for a set of skins isn’t bad but it is simply unnecessary to make it longer than it was.

I’m unhappy about this nerf. I have 8 characters and I wasn’t farming the same dungeon all day to make money. Only dungeons I ran several times with several alts were to get token for the armor to gear my alts and a bit of COE to get cores/lodestones for a legendary.
I’ve just hit max level with my ranger and wanted to get her the arah set but this change is disheartning.
I’m also amazed it wasn’t stated in the patch note and that Anet doesn’t answer to any thread regarding this change.
I really hope this is a bug but I fear it isn’t. I already have most of my characters geared but for new players it will really be much longer.

Ok so remember those achievement point chests? Anet handed you 2 full sets of gear, any stats you want, right there.

Player Character.9467:

Ok so remember those achievement point chests? Anet handed you 2 full sets of gear, any stats you want, right there.

Errr… what? I don’t remember getting gear in mine.

I don’t see the big deal about this. It just means you gear a little slower but in the big picture, what’s the rush?

Kirschwasser.3972:

Player Character.9467:

Ok so remember those achievement point chests? Anet handed you 2 full sets of gear, any stats you want, right there.

Errr… what? I don’t remember getting gear in mine.

He is probably referring to the WvW vendors selling armor with popular stats for coins and badges. Not all stat combinations are there though

Yaki.9563:

I don’t see the big deal about this. It just means you gear a little slower but in the big picture, what’s the rush?

For me the big deal doesn’t lie in the actual time it takes. I don’ t usually do more than 1 set per day so I am not really affected. But I don’t understand what is so wrong about what the farmers were doing that anet specifically want to decrease what they get.

If I just want exotic armors, I would just join the wvw zerg and get the badges and then buy them in wvw. They are so easy and cheap. The reason for me to run certain dungeons with mutliple alts before the nerf, I run it because I need certain skins/runes and exotic weapons.

For example, I suddenly feel like to play a cleric build and need the superior rune of monk. It’s not sold on TP but can only be acquired from the AC dungeon tokens. Seriously I have not touched AC dungeons ever since it became time comsuming to play because of ccertain bosses. I don’t enjoy getting wiped then some people leave and the rest have to wait for new people coming in. Anyway, a rune is 120 tokens and I need 840 tokens for 7 (underwater helm need the rune too). So before the nerf it takes 2 days to get them all if I use 7 alts to focus on 1 path only. After the nerf, it takes 14 days for 1 alts to play on 1 path only. Part of reason I don’t grind dungeon is because it’s only 20 token after the 1st try which is inefficient to play.

Note that I do not play AC because I want to play it or want to farm it. I play because I suddenly need the tokens. So in order to play a new build that just came out in my mind, I now have to spend 14 days to get the rune in a dungeon I don’t really want to play. Should I just forget about trying this build all together? If any new build that I want to try have so much time needed ahead, should I bother playing new builds at all?

I agree playing multile alts are for fun. But they have to be geared/skined for different builds which took a lot of time before the nerf already. With so many changes that is not in favor with people who have multiple alts in dungeon/wvw and look like things have to take a long time to accomplish, it’s really getting less incentive to continue on.

BBMouse.6510:

If I just want exotic armors, I would just join the wvw zerg and get the badges and then buy them in wvw. They are so easy and cheap. The reason for me to run certain dungeons with mutliple alts before the nerf, I run it because I need certain skins/runes and exotic weapons.

For example, I suddenly feel like to play a cleric build and need the superior rune of monk. It’s not sold on TP but can only be acquired from the AC dungeon tokens. Seriously I have not touched AC dungeons ever since it became time comsuming to play because of ccertain bosses. I don’t enjoy getting wiped then some people leave and the rest have to wait for new people coming in. Anyway, a rune is 120 tokens and I need 840 tokens for 7 (underwater helm need the rune too). So before the nerf it takes 2 days to get them all if I use 7 alts to focus on 1 path only. After the nerf, it takes 14 days for 1 alts to play on 1 path only. Part of reason I don’t grind dungeon is because it’s only 20 token after the 1st try which is inefficient to play.

Note that I do not play AC because I want to play it or want to farm it. I play because I suddenly need the tokens. So in order to play a new build that just came out in my mind, I now have to spend 14 days to get the rune in a dungeon I don’t really want to play. Should I just forget about trying this build all together? If any new build that I want to try have so much time needed ahead, should I bother playing new builds at all?

I agree playing multile alts are for fun. But they have to be geared/skined for different builds which took a lot of time before the nerf already. With so many changes that is not in favor with people who have multiple alts in dungeon/wvw and look like things have to take a long time to accomplish, it’s really getting less incentive to continue on.

If you bothered to do all 3 paths you could get it in 5 days with no extra runs, and probably more like 3-4 days because they drop as loot.

Player Character.9467:

BBMouse.6510:

If I just want exotic armors, I would just join the wvw zerg and get the badges and then buy them in wvw. They are so easy and cheap. The reason for me to run certain dungeons with mutliple alts before the nerf, I run it because I need certain skins/runes and exotic weapons.

For example, I suddenly feel like to play a cleric build and need the superior rune of monk. It’s not sold on TP but can only be acquired from the AC dungeon tokens. Seriously I have not touched AC dungeons ever since it became time comsuming to play because of ccertain bosses. I don’t enjoy getting wiped then some people leave and the rest have to wait for new people coming in. Anyway, a rune is 120 tokens and I need 840 tokens for 7 (underwater helm need the rune too). So before the nerf it takes 2 days to get them all if I use 7 alts to focus on 1 path only. After the nerf, it takes 14 days for 1 alts to play on 1 path only. Part of reason I don’t grind dungeon is because it’s only 20 token after the 1st try which is inefficient to play.

Note that I do not play AC because I want to play it or want to farm it. I play because I suddenly need the tokens. So in order to play a new build that just came out in my mind, I now have to spend 14 days to get the rune in a dungeon I don’t really want to play. Should I just forget about trying this build all together? If any new build that I want to try have so much time needed ahead, should I bother playing new builds at all?

I agree playing multile alts are for fun. But they have to be geared/skined for different builds which took a lot of time before the nerf already. With so many changes that is not in favor with people who have multiple alts in dungeon/wvw and look like things have to take a long time to accomplish, it’s really getting less incentive to continue on.

If you bothered to do all 3 paths you could get it in 5 days with no extra runs, and probably more like 3-4 days because they drop as loot.

Hey, here is a radical idea: why don’t you run the dungeon for a week to get 1 thing, and he will run it multiple times a day to get what he wants? How about we stop telling other people how they should play the game?

This is an incredibly disappointing and disheartening “nerf” if it actually is one. Anet have not talked about it so I am hoping this is just a bug with the new dungeon reward system that will be fixed soon. Having multiple characters and trying to get the skins on them that I want should not take a million years. Yes, that is just a manner of speech, but keep in mind I have a huge number of alts.

Also, can I just remind everyone to post in the Game Bugs forum and or report it ingame?

Yea honestly this single change has completely killed not only the update for me but more or less the game.
This change will not make me run different paths as I have played this game enough to have experienced most dungeon content and so the novelty of doing an alternative path has worn off while it often being longer and more tedious.

I just really don’t understand why they have decided to take away an advantage that is gained through putting large amounts of time into the game (i.e. leveling alts), really really bad change.

However, funny thing is, since they have linked tokens to account and the same for gold, shouldn’t the token received on first run and alternative runs be in par with the gold we receive ?

Let’s take an exemple:

• CoF rewards 1.26 gold / 60 tokens / 1st run and 26 silver / 20 tokens / alt runs
  So shouldn’t AC for exemple give an increase in tokens since it is … more difficult … ? And instead of being 60 tokens, become 90 on 1st run and 30 on alts ?

Now that would be fair since they were talking about rewarding dungeons depending on length and time and difficulty …

Now what this patch did for me:

• a huge increase in gold as before, which i don’t give a kitten about, am like at *5 more gold while playing less
• a huge nerf in my tokens… which I am mad about

Tentonhammr.7849:

Plain and simple: you should be able to get things as fast as you want, IF you’re willing to put in the work.

I agree. And this is the core of the matter. I never noticed any loot reduction in gw1, ever. But in gw2, you get punished for trying to get stuff by playing. It’s like having a job, where if you work overtime you get paid LESS.

It’s as if Anet doesn’t want this to be an rpg you actually play to get stuff. You have to become a trader (TP) if you want something. If I want to trade, I would play another game.

I’ve always found the loot reduction ridiculous. And earlier it was so bugged, that fx, the first time I did CM explorer on my account, I recieved 0 tokens. The first time I was in the northern part of fireheart rise (leveling my first toon from 76-80) I recieved 700 xp for completing events, and the mate next to me recieved 10000 xp.

Morale: The more work you put into the game, the less you get for the time spend. It is as if Anet has sold you your copy, earned their money, and now they want you to use their server as little as possible.

Edit: And they don’t want you to level alts, so they make it very hard to equip several alts. (And I haven’t even mentioned the precursor that never drops, but the guy next to you gets 3 precursors).

Wukunlin.8461:

I don’t understand what is so wrong about what the farmers were doing that anet specifically want to decrease what they get.

Anet wants you to get less per hour, the more time you spend. And that’s just …. I mean …. do they also pay their employees less, if they work overtime? It’s a joke.

I am not even a farmer XD. I just suddenly need 7 superior rune of monk from 840 ac dungeon tokens. I just did ac p1 p3 and got 120. Cannot find people who want to do p2. So I guess it will take me a week to get the job done.

I guess the point of creating an alt is to play with it, not to get extra rewards. The “normal” reward is supposed to be a daily bonus, just like with pretty much everything else.

sorenrye.7238:

Wukunlin.8461:

I don’t understand what is so wrong about what the farmers were doing that anet specifically want to decrease what they get.

Anet wants you to get less per hour, the more time you spend. And that’s just …. I mean …. do they also pay their employees less, if they work overtime? It’s a joke.

I hope you don’t see this game as a job.

Feeling discouraged to use Alts? How about this fix: Diminished returns per character reset after a week instead of a day! #drenchtheirsorrowinflame

But seriously, +-200 tokens per day is OK. U can still get more runs per day if u want, but wouldn’t be time efficient. For me personally the changes mean I’ll be playing a wider array of dungeon paths, and since diversity is good I’d say that’s a positive change.
And still more seriously guys, don’t treat diminished returns like it’s a bad thing. It’s 2013. These comparisons to jobs? LMAO.

Wethospu.6437, if the point of creating alt is to play with it, which i whole heartadly agree with, then not being able to switch toons while in dungeon would also be a solution. It would also fix that bug where if party leader switches, you all get kicked

Also not allowing a switch would be dangerous and make dungeons more elitists than they are today. Since sometimes I do get my guardian / mesmer out to carry PUGs in Arah / CM

The “wider array of dungeons” argument works when it comes to gold, but not so much dungeon tokens – I can’t trade in 169 Coe tokens and 131 arah tokens to get a piece of zerker gear. And anyway, your getting soul bound armor, not t6 mats to sell so it doesn’t seem like that big a deal to make it a character bound reward. Yeah, you can get 60 more tokens than a person with one character, but you are also trying to gear out 2 chars instead of one.

Wethospu.6437:

I guess the point of creating an alt is to play with it, not to get extra rewards. The “normal” reward is supposed to be a daily bonus, just like with pretty much everything else.

I hope you don’t see this game as a job.

Problem is that it has never been extra rewards. Total amout of play time is the same and total amount of tokens gained are the same. The difference is for example

Before nerf: you get 180 ac tokens by playing 3 ac p1 from 3 alts for 1 hour
After nerf: you get 60 ac tokens, 60 cof tokens, 60 se token, played by 1 main for 1 hour

Total time is the same, total amount of tokens are the same. Except now you have to make it a daily job to achieve your goal if you need 1 type of tokens only. And the other tokens that you don’t need will just sit there until maybe they have some use in the future. And if you happen to not have the mood to play that dungeon sometimes, it will take even longer. No offense, but Anet creates the job for us.

I understand Anet must have their reason doing this since they must have all sort of data/statistics showing some sort of abuse of dungeon runs, so they do nerfs. But forum is where some legit players can complain right? Hope they reconsider.

Similarly you get daily achievement just once, no matter how many alts you use. This is their “anti-farming”/“casual” design. They probably won’t revert this change because it is following their current design.

Just crying about nerf/alts most likely won’t help at all. I would focus on trying to make them realize that 20 tokens per run isn’t enough.

BBMouse.6510:

I understand Anet must have their reason doing this since they must have all sort of data/statistics showing some sort of abuse of dungeon runs, so they do nerfs.

More likely it was easier to lump the new gold rewards and tokens together in one daily account bound reward. Given the way they assigned gold rewards, I have no reason to believe “data/statistics” were used. Also if it was a considered change intended to resolve an issue with exploitation (I can’t imagine what this would be with tokens….buying rares to throw in the mystic toilet….?) it would have been in the patch notes instead of swept under the rug.

The main gripe I have is that previously I could ask my guild if anyone wanted to run a dungeon and get something going. The main dungeon runners have alts, so we are easy with going with whatever dungeon is suggested/requested.

Now that there is a disincentive to repeat a dungeon I’m seeing dungeon parties not fill from within the guild because people who would normally join on an alt (myself included), no longer want to because they ran it earlier.

shrach.2587:

The main gripe I have is that previously I could ask my guild if anyone wanted to run a dungeon and get something going. The main dungeon runners have alts, so we are easy with going with whatever dungeon is suggested/requested.

Now that there is a disincentive to repeat a dungeon I’m seeing dungeon parties not fill from within the guild because people who would normally join on an alt (myself included), no longer want to because they ran it earlier.

This is happening in my guild too. If you don’t make it in time to be first in line for the dungeon groups, you’re not getting your dungeons done.

Someone earlier said to just buy armor, but I run dungeons to make money for my legendary while getting armor for my baby alts. Buying the armor just removes the point of that.
I’ve actually stopped leveling my alts this week because I’m not sure what I’ll end up doing with them whenever they hit 80.

Heylo.4938:

This is happening in my guild too. If you don’t make it in time to be first in line for the dungeon groups, you’re not getting your dungeons done.

Well certainly this is going to create some tension for people who are trying to farm gold because not all players in the same guild can run a great variety of dungeons as well as they farm easy going stuff like cof and coe. You can get as much gold (in fact, more) as you used to from doing things like spamming CoE for hours on alts by doing a full dungeon rotation, but, only if all the players in your group know a great variety of dungeons well enough to handle it in a speedclear manner. When you get people who whine because you skip in CM well.. thankfully I managed to throw CM in yesterday with a group that can skip.

Been a bit tense yesterday and finally managed to form two groups for a full rotation but this patch is both something I find fun, and was looking forward to, and a curse to group dynamics.

The difference between farming for gold (my past CoE sessions) and just doing a casual dungeon run (of any dungeon) with other people has been blurred. You’re now running all these dungeons instead of CoE spams for your gold needs, and you’re not going to run them again casually with other people because there is no point (20 token, no silver drops etc).

Nikaido.3457:

Heylo.4938:

This is happening in my guild too. If you don’t make it in time to be first in line for the dungeon groups, you’re not getting your dungeons done.

and you’re not going to run them again casually with other people because there is no point (20 token, no silver drops etc).

And that is the heart of why I hate this patch. Being on PST, I’m going to be behind my east coast friends in starting dungeons after resets. And my Aussie and Kiwi friends are going to suffer even more in not being able to group with us easily.

If anet saw that we were earning TOO MANY tokens per hour or whatever, then why not just reduce the number of earned tokens per run yet allow us to earn the new maximum tokens without the daily gold with our alts? That was the main reason why I had alts kitted out for dungeons, to earn tokens faster.

This will guarantee put a dent to guild groups those teach new people running dungeons. Everyone now has to get in line and if you are late, tough luck.

I really want to see a dev respond in here and tell us their reasoning for this change.

Wraith.9426:

I really want to see a dev respond in here and tell us their reasoning for this change.

Too much time spent in meeting and the only time to do quality thinking are those precious bathroom break time.

Boohoo why can’t I do dailies with my alts and get the extra laurels!

Boohoo why can’t I do my monthly with my alts and get the extra laurels!

I’m sure there’s other crap too but circumventing time limitations by abusing alts leaves me with little sympathy.

Now those who legitimately want to get gear from a dungeon for multiple characters, that I can understand the complaint. Maybe make it so that tokens are character bound…problem solved!

Yaki.9563:

I’m sure there’s other crap too but circumventing time limitations by abusing alts leaves me with little sympathy.

I’m seeing responses like this to virtually every issue players raise on the forums. Do you guys genuinely not see the bigger picture, or are you ‘trolling’ by playing the grizzled old vet?

The game is getting older, and the devs are restricting players’ options and personal freedom. Options and freedoms that were around since launch. You’ve got to consider that these time limitations offer absolutely nothing to players. It doesn’t improve our game experience at all.

Its a real downer for some of us because we found a system, didn’t like some bits of it but we did our best to work within it. Now its changing to make a lot of the work we put in (specifically, alts) worth a lot less.

All the time-gating is really giving the game a sense of ‘oppressiveness’ that’s killing it for me.