Guild Wars 2

What’s funny is that GW2 has done nothing to help the roleplayers either

I’ll add I have nothing against people who play any way they want. I just wish people could be happy to play with others who think like them, GW2 makes this hard with the way they do megaservers (which is what really hurt roleplaying as I understand it too).

Your talk of D&D makes me miss original EQ (not just original game, but like oldschool version of that game before it conformed to more modern MMO styles), the immersion was great, and while we still optimized it was simply to get through content. God I miss that style of gaming. I actually miss spending over an hour just to travel to my next destination through fields of undead that would slaughter you if you were caught. Nostalgia ftw

2 kinds of props:

“I hope people look cool! or I hope people are impressed by my playing!”

vs.

“I’m better than all the casuals and bads for doing this.”

And on one hand there’s no reason to believe that dungeon people are part 2, but then again DnT exists.

Edit: It’s back to the same old thing. More from other MMOs than from GW2 per se, people (probably unfairly) connote a very negative experience and POV with the dungeon/progress crowd. It’s not uncalledfor, especially in vertical progression games.

Windsagio.1340:

2 kinds of props:

“I hope people look cool! or I hope people are impressed by my playing!”

vs.

“I’m better than all the casuals and bads for doing this.”

And on one hand there’s no reason to believe that dungeon people are part 2, but then again DnT exists.

Edit: It’s back to the same old thing. More from other MMOs than from GW2 per se, people (probably unfairly) connote a very negative experience and POV with the dungeon/progress crowd. It’s not uncalledfor, especially in vertical progression games.

And yet these glory hounds do everything they can to help people learn to do what they can do to the point that even a Lupi Solo really isn’t all that impressive anymore.

I don’t honestly care what people do in their free time, as long as they don’t spoil my work. If you wanna clear a personal story instance of all the enemies and use PTV gear to do so, go ahead. But if someone as useless comes to an event I’m doing, he scales enemy HP up and does next to 0 damage, effectively wasting my time and prolonging the fight unnecessarily.
I don’t have any problems with casuals. The problem is, Anet is forcing me to play with them. Either let me use some filters so I can play with equally skilled and likeminded people, or return to the gw1’s open world design, where I can choose whether I want to venture out with someone else, or do everything on my own.

actually this is adry socket, sorry ><

Let’s all be good people!

You can’t dps when you are dead, therefor tanky gear >>>>>> berserker gear.

Meh people play the game and see min maxing as an elitism thing while the min maxers see pvt people as a waste of space.

People need to understand that this game is highly advertised to casuals.

So if your a min maxer just do what we all do and post LFG specifically what you want. Kick the non reading people out of your party.

If your a PTV gear wearer post in LFG you like to take your time and role play in dungeons.

There a simple solution, but out of respect for people dont think your pro because you spam 1 and killed adds fast. Its thanks to the min maxers that learned the instances and might stack/reflect/whatever modifiers..

I think it’s wrong to post your style unless you’re insisting on it.

Obtena.7952:

Having a Inspect Gear option would do NOTHING to force players into min-maxing … except making those players LEAVE GW2.

Seems like a great thing to happen.

Windsagio.1340:

I think it’s wrong to post your style unless you’re insisting on it.

Do you feel there’s anything wrong with insisting?

Personally I was banned from posting LFGs in my old group for a reason, I never posted “right” I’ve always played under the pretense that if you can’t carry someone who isn’t good, then you’re no good, but I have no qualms about those who do insist upon whatever requirements they see fit, I just don’t take part in the quelling.

I actually like when dungeons take a bit longer to kill things, which is why I don’t do dungeons much anymore and prefer fractals. Though there is that satisfaction of things just going smoothly. As my grandpa used to say “I love when it just cinches” when things just go right, ahh, such a refreshing feeling. Did an Arah p2 the other day with someone who frequents this forum in a PUG, other than one little hiccup on my part (my weapon swap didn’t trigger and I didn’t get the shortbow blast in my black powder) it was awesome. It does get boring when you run with that efficiency all the time though, at least IMO.

Jerus.4350:

I’ve always played under the pretense that if you can’t carry someone who isn’t good, then you’re no good

Pretty much this. Just because you are min maxing dont’ make you a good player.

I can wear berserker max dps traits and die 10 times in a fight. That dont’ make me a good player.

And some of those min maxer who die constantly is more annoying IMO. They are probably better of getting a bit of defensive traits.

Windsagio.1340:

2 kinds of props:

“I hope people look cool! or I hope people are impressed by my playing!”

vs.

“I’m better than all the casuals and bads for doing this.”

And on one hand there’s no reason to believe that dungeon people are part 2, but then again DnT exists.

sorry, you called?

Why do people hate min-max-ing?

Because math doesn’t come easy to many people. This game is a great one to play after a busy day of job and family, more involved and immersive than facebook games, but you can do pretty much all content without needing to spend too much time calculating your optimal equipment and skill rotation.

There’s people that enjoy that kind of thing, and there’s people that don’t. GW2 attrackts a lot of the later group, and they don’t care to “work” on numbers and optimizing when the game gives them the enjoyable experience they’re after just as well without that “work”.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

I don’t honestly care what people do in their free time, as long as they don’t spoil my work. If you wanna clear a personal story instance of all the enemies and use PTV gear to do so, go ahead. But if someone as useless comes to an event I’m doing, he scales enemy HP up and does next to 0 damage, effectively wasting my time and prolonging the fight unnecessarily.
I don’t have any problems with casuals. The problem is, Anet is forcing me to play with them. Either let me use some filters so I can play with equally skilled and likeminded people, or return to the gw1’s open world design, where I can choose whether I want to venture out with someone else, or do everything on my own.

You should get used to it in online games especially in open world.
I dont know about any MMO where you can filter people around you in non-instanced world around you (really, is there any?).
Imo it would hurt the whole community long-term.

If you need more advices or insight on online gaming, feel free to ask.

I have a question about the term: maximising okay I get that, maximise damage output. But minimising? What’s that? Is it the time to complete a dungeon or what?

For me the GW2 philosophy is “everybody is the winner” which both good and bad. More bad IMO. First of all, when everybody wins rewards mean nothing. Secondly, most important I think is that people doing open world feel like they don’t have to contribute more than bare minimum to get rewarded. In zergs they are anonymous, they can play any build, any stats, any weapons. kitten , I’ve met pugs that were ignorant enough not to care about traits. Or with empty utility slots (!).

This philosophy drives us to the point where people don’t want to learn the game because they don’t have to. And when they join a dungeon group (actually the last and only place where you can meet some challenge PvE wise) they feel entitled to the reward at the end and what’s more they don’t understand why other party members expect them to contribute. They learned that this game is a self-winning lottery with 0 effort needed.

I have no problems with those people being constantly excluded from parties. I feel being excluded from open world because I feel this content is to dumb. Why should I care about people spoiling my fun in dungeons?

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have a question about the term: maximising okay I get that, maximise damage output. But minimising? What’s that? Is it the time to complete a dungeon or what?

Minimum time, maximum reward

Thank you, Many.

About the topic: I was always someone who played meta, though I have an easy take on dungeons etc. I never try speed clearing something (I really have better things to do than this). But I dislike players who dish out next to nothing, as mentioned the infamous bearbow, they are everywhere and I just don’t get it.

I think min-max is a bit wrong term here. It’s more like understanding the basics.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have a question about the term: maximising okay I get that, maximise damage output. But minimising? What’s that? Is it the time to complete a dungeon or what?

click
wait few seconds
first link, first sentence

Harny.6012:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have a question about the term: maximising okay I get that, maximise damage output. But minimising? What’s that? Is it the time to complete a dungeon or what?

click
wait few seconds
first link, first sentence

What’s the point of killing social interaction… on a forum?

ProtoGunner.4953:

But I dislike players who dish out next to nothing, as mentioned the infamous bearbow, they are everywhere and I just don’t get it.

If you are going to complain about bearbow. Please tell me the dps difference between a longbow camping ranger, and a GS or sword ranger.

If you can’t even answer that question. You are just a prejudice person.

I honestly dont’ know the answer to that. Because if a bow ranger is dealing like 20% less damage while not needing to sacrifice dps for dodging and running, I dont’ think it’s so bad.

laokoko.7403:

ProtoGunner.4953:

But I dislike players who dish out next to nothing, as mentioned the infamous bearbow, they are everywhere and I just don’t get it.

If you are going to complain about bearbow. Please tell me the dps difference between a longbow camping ranger, and a GS or sword ranger.

If you can’t even answer that question. You are just a prejudice person.

I honestly dont’ know the answer to that. Because if a bow ranger is dealing like 20% less damage while not needing to sacrifice dps for dodging and running, I dont’ think it’s so bad.

1200+ range = out of party boons, especially might restacking

Most of the “maxing” guys are not even asking about much they just expect them to run zerker and to use melee and not to run useless protection skills.

Could you provide some data about this “most” you’re talking about?

Extreme.8350:

Most of the “maxing” guys are not even asking about much they just expect them to run zerker and to use melee and not to run useless protection skills.

Someone said useless protection skills? Hammer Guardian is here ;D

segman.3560:

Could you provide some data about this “most” you’re talking about?

Ok… In me and my friends personal experience. One of them played 5000 hours.

Does he also have high AP? If so then he must be a pro player.

Velho.7123:

Extreme.8350:

Most of the “maxing” guys are not even asking about much they just expect them to run zerker and to use melee and not to run useless protection skills.

Someone said useless protection skills? Hammer Guardian is here ;D

No m8 that is useful the damage is not that far of from gs either.

Taku.6352:

Does he also have high AP? If so then he must be a pro player.

Do u need to be pro to realize that zerker is better than pvt and knight?

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Harny.6012:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have a question about the term: maximising okay I get that, maximise damage output. But minimising? What’s that? Is it the time to complete a dungeon or what?

click
wait few seconds
first link, first sentence

What’s the point of killing social interaction… on a forum?

Not explaining basics all over again might be a reason for some, maybe.
But tbh, I just find it pity nobody uses lmgtfy.com anymore

Talyn.3295:

I am kinda thinking that we ended up with all the players who couldn’t/wouldn’t make it in other MMOs here. And since there is not a gear treadmill to work through we all just kinda get lumped in together.

Pretty much this. Stay safe out there.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

I have to say, fishing for props seem’s a pretty big motivator for some of the segments of players (maybe all of them, that’s part of dress-up wars as well).

See that’s the funny thing.

Make a cute outfit.

Play something on one of the instruments

Props all around.

Do Lupi with the Risen Champ and the Champ Knight like Miku has and you’ll probably get more hate than props.

That’s what this thread is about, and it’s something pretty unique to GW2. Other games you get some haters, but most players do give props and are impressed, here, not so much.

Take a look at Sesshi’s First Person No UI Harpy Fractal 4 champ solo. The people here, props, when it was on Reddit, they got flamed because “warrior is OP, they can only do it because of that.”

I understand you and Obtena dislike the Meta game, but do you not see this type of response as pretty odd?

It’s like looking at Michael Jordan and saying ‘well he was only good at basketball because he was 6’6’’, if he was shorter he wouldn’t have been good at all" It’s a silly type of response.

Someone Linked Wethospu’s old Lupi Solo from 2 years ago. Reading those responses was awesome, other than hate on his musical choice, it was all positive comments. Some time in the last 2 years people have become pricks. (apparently ANet even linked his video according to one of the comments, I wasn’t around back then).

This is because people secretly – in the back of their mid whether they’re aware of it or not are jealous. They’re mad because someone is doing something they can’t.
Someone is playing well, being “more of a hero” than they are.

MMOs are about an empowerment fantasy. Fighting and killing Lupi as a 5 man PHIW casual party feels like a huge achievement for them (since Lupi is big and seems scary) so when they see someone can solo it – even with more mobs added they’re going to have that fantasy ruined to some extent.

See up until that moment they felt like the most special snowflakes in the world but once that person has shown them just what he can do and how good he is by soloing it they’re getting a cold bucket of water to the face.
They’re no longer the “awesome heroes that win at everything forever” because they now have a different standard that they compare themselves to.

People say they play MMOs for their own fun, for the social aspect and what not but people lie – to others and to themselves. Most people play MMOs in order to openly or secretly compete with others.
Otherwise you’d be playing an RPG.

And when others do significantly better than you, you take it personal. You start hating and looking for reasons why it happened.

That’s why you get :

“Zerker is exploiting” or " stacking is cheating" or “skiping is cheating” because they’re crutches used to dismiss what those people are doing and achieving.
By applying this logic and putting them in the “they’re playing the game wrong” you can still safely delude yourself that you’re one of the best out of those who are playing it “right” and thus you can become the hero again.

That’s pretty much how these people think and feel.

Wethospu.6437:

I think min-max is a bit wrong term here. It’s more like understanding the basics.

Min-maxing basics.

laokoko.7403:

Jerus.4350:

I’ve always played under the pretense that if you can’t carry someone who isn’t good, then you’re no good

Pretty much this. Just because you are min maxing dont’ make you a good player.

I can wear berserker max dps traits and die 10 times in a fight. That dont’ make me a good player.

And some of those min maxer who die constantly is more annoying IMO. They are probably better of getting a bit of defensive traits.

Except people can be good and not want to carry someone who isn’t. I hate carrying. Even if I could – even if I was good enough that I could somehow do it with the press of 1 button ( through magic or something) I wouldn’t.

People should do their own stuff. And learn how to do it themselves. If they want to pay for the run that’s fine – it’s still some effort spent. But getting something for nothing? No – I won’t.

You don’t win just because you’re playing. You need to earn your win.

laokoko.7403:

Jerus.4350:

I’ve always played under the pretense that if you can’t carry someone who isn’t good, then you’re no good

Pretty much this. Just because you are min maxing dont’ make you a good player.

I can wear berserker max dps traits and die 10 times in a fight. That dont’ make me a good player.

And some of those min maxer who die constantly is more annoying IMO. They are probably better of getting a bit of defensive traits.

Everyone has to start somewhere, even if the person knows the content but switches from defensive gear to zerker, he’ll naturally die more in zerker at the start.

Often if a zerker dies a lot in a pvt party, it’s cos the party skill is non existent. Pvt gear allows the players to afk and 111 the mobs, very little need to use their skills properly. Sometimes the skills are used so badly, they actually hurt the party, ofc the zerker will get hurt more than pvt’s.

I am not a great player to solo all the content but there is something wrong to say I should use defensive gear to survive party’s attempts to kill me.

As far as min maxing goes i don’t expect everyone to have a weapon with slaying sigils for every dungeon tons of various food and potions but it would be nice if people were willing to meet you halfway with good traits and zerk gear

Windsagio.1340:

2 kinds of props:

“I hope people look cool! or I hope people are impressed by my playing!”

vs.

“I’m better than all the casuals and bads for doing this.”

And on one hand there’s no reason to believe that dungeon people are part 2, but then again DnT exists.

Edit: It’s back to the same old thing. More from other MMOs than from GW2 per se, people (probably unfairly) connote a very negative experience and POV with the dungeon/progress crowd. It’s not uncalledfor, especially in vertical progression games.

And there I was trying to make helpful videos, handing out potions and food to ‘casuals’ in pugs and helping them find the right builds. All for nought I suppose >_>

#filthyelitist
#2good4u

omg just realised that OP can vouch for me, I found him in a pug too :o

Hi it’s Swiftpaw /waves

Dub.1273:

Obtena.7952:

Having a Inspect Gear option would do NOTHING to force players into min-maxing … except making those players LEAVE GW2.

Seems like a great thing to happen.

Wow.

I will not pretend to speak for everyone, but only myself. I have no interest is going through content fast. I enjoy playing this way, and it is a much bigger challenge for me than breezing through stuff. I play for the challenge, not the stuffs, if i wanted stuff at less of a challenge, I would have enjoyed Guild Wars 1 more.

Warcry.1596:

I will not pretend to speak for everyone, but only myself. I have no interest is going through content fast. I enjoy playing this way, and it is a much bigger challenge for me than breezing through stuff. I play for the challenge, not the stuffs, if i wanted stuff at less of a challenge, I would have enjoyed Guild Wars 1 more.

That’s very good you know what you like. I only hope that when you do this you don’t expect people that like fast runs to play your way.

Of course not, I lead my own guild for dungeon shenanigans. If we have 4 and we gotta pug, then if they are looking for super fast meta go go times, they will be disappointed.

Wethospu.6437:

I think min-max is a bit wrong term here. It’s more like understanding the basics.

Understanding and execution are sometimes a bit far apart for some people

For example, one can run an awesome cookie cutter build and attempt a next-to-record strat but his rotation is a mess, and he couldn’t handle the aggro. On the other hand, some people running meta don’t really have a min-maxing mentality either.

Iris Ng.9845:

Wethospu.6437:

I think min-max is a bit wrong term here. It’s more like understanding the basics.

Understanding and execution are sometimes a bit far apart from some people

o/ that’s me, really though, I understand more than I can actually regularly execute, Iris knows this as does anyone who plays with me. I’m just a well informed baddy

Many.8419:

laokoko.7403:

ProtoGunner.4953:

But I dislike players who dish out next to nothing, as mentioned the infamous bearbow, they are everywhere and I just don’t get it.

If you are going to complain about bearbow. Please tell me the dps difference between a longbow camping ranger, and a GS or sword ranger.

If you can’t even answer that question. You are just a prejudice person.

I honestly dont’ know the answer to that. Because if a bow ranger is dealing like 20% less damage while not needing to sacrifice dps for dodging and running, I dont’ think it’s so bad.

1200+ range = out of party boons, especially might restacking

I won’t speak for dungeons, because that is so easy, probably anyone should be meleeing and try to do max dps.

But purely speaking for high level fractal. Most pug are doing so poorly on boss fight, 5 bearbow probably out dps them.

It’s not like I call you out

I still like playing with you because you’re pleasant and actively want to improve

Am I the only one here that wants to feel like a special snowflake?

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s not like I call you out

I still like playing with you because you’re pleasant and actively want to improve

:D

GrimmR.3541:

You can’t dps when you are dead, therefor tanky gear >>>>>> berserker gear.

Except the people who push for the meta actually know how to play, so they can more often than not survive better then the pvt crowd.

Now, I get the PHIW mentality. I mean it’s a game, I payed for it, I can do whatever. However, this is a multiplayer game. Especially Dungeons and Fractals, that is considered group content, requires cooperation. I’ve seen people actually lie about running meta and then complaining on the forum about how he was running some useless build and got kicked midway because he just could not perform as well as the meta build would have.

If you want the “lf fractal noob friendly” groups, go play that. But when I type “zerk, meta build, food/uti” I actually expect you to be using zerker gear, meta builds and running the required consumables. Don’t come into my group, and then midway through the run reveal yourself to be someone who is “against the meta” and fail every single encounter.

laokoko.7403:

most pug are doing so poorly on boss fight, 5 bearbow probably out dps them.

See, that is because those people are either unskilled or new. A proper group of 2-3 people, who know the game and CAN actually play the meta can run lv50 fractals faster then the group of 5 bearbows could finish lv1. A group (not a pug) of 5 skilled, meta build using players will always, always, ALWAYS be better.

This thread is why we can’t have nice things ;_;

Because PHIWs are self-righteous kittens and need to justify their own silly mistakes with “but zerk is op, too easy, even I could do it but I choose not to”. I find their mentality, their way of presenting themselves, everything about them repulsive and I’ll never tire of saying so. The more forceful I am, the more they’ll avoid me (hopefully). I’m content with having the reputation of an elitist, tryhard jerk – even if I’m probably the least tryhard person on the planet, as long as they stay away from me.
You see, that’s the difference between the 2 groups: I’m ok with avoiding them like the plague and letting them be… as long as there’s no interaction; they have to sit on my hairy b***s and remind me everyday of how much of a sheep I am for playing decent setups since they’re “unoriginal”.
Well ex-freaking-cuse me for reading some guides and listening to advice since I’m bad at everything with numbers. That hard to do, huh?
The whys, well, told ya. They like yapping, that’s why. It seems like there’s so many of them it’s a wonder you find non-nutjobs to play with…

… Should’ve gone to bed, I forgot to take my anti-phiw-nightmares pills. One more “11111 zerk spam in a corner” thread and I’m gonna fry my own braincells with a taser.
The ones that are left.