Guild Wars 2

What is the highest dps team not requiring any support? (Aegis, reflects, stab)

What is the highest dps team with good support that will be able to outdps a team without one?

For instance, the golems in Sorrow’s Embrace Path 1, will a team of 5 Eles with just their own stability and FGS be able to reliably finish the fight faster compared to one with a Guardian?

I realize each fight is a different one. But what’s it like on paper?

Mmm, 3 ele, 1 warrior, 1 ranger.

Ran with 3 ele’s, 1 warrior and 1 engi before. It was some pretty sweet dps.

interesting concept. for just pure raw damage output….

I am going to hazard a guess that it would be:

2 Ele (might stacking and FgS)
1 War, (banners and FgJ)
1 ranger (warhorn, spotter and frost)
1 thief (might stack with shortbow and backstab, although I wonder as if you ar walling something can the thief get “behind” something for the damage boost.

that being said and thinking on it. I think it would be 3 Ele with war and ranger. just for the extra Fgs,

Is 2 ele not enough for the might stack?

Maybe more vuln?

xallever.1874:

Is 2 ele not enough for the might stack?

Maybe more vuln?

More ele means more fgs means more damage.

Even without fgs, ele has one of the highest (if not highest) base DPS, so if you really want to maximize things, ele is quite useful. The 30/30/10 build provides vuln as well.

Thieves can provide vuln with Sundering Strikes, I do believe. I forget if it has ICD, but last I heard it doesn’t. If it does, then you could do an engi instead for vuln.

I’d probably do the 2ele 1war 1ranger 1thief. Give the ranger and thief the fgs.

So is there a point of diminishing return on more FGS?

I think that’s the odd part out,

Yes 2 Ele is more than capable of the might stacking. its the 5th man out. that I wonder about. in a theory it could be an Engie for a fast Vul cap? maybe? or just another Ele for just some raw damage output? that’s why I suugested a thief first as he can do some Vul and does not need fgs for high damage. its the positioning that concerns me,

which might be an interesting dynamic. the Highest dps team would be different if you are talking about something you can put on a wall vs something that you have to fight in the open such as bloom hunger for example.

xallever.1874:

So is there a point of diminishing return on more FGS?

When you run out of people that can wield them.

I agree with 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger as demonstrated here

It would be interesting to talk about the highest DPS team in a scenario where you cannot use FGS (let’s not use blinks guys).

My thinking was 3 ele’s so everyone would have an fgs. Warrior would run OMM instead of FGJ.

When I ran with 3 ele’s, 1 war and 1 engi, when we weren’t using fgs the war and engi gave 25 vuln.

Note that with the right builds the ele’s will give 25 vuln stacks with the FGS anyway.

dutchiez.7502:

I agree with 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger as demonstrated here

It would be interesting to talk about the highest DPS team in a scenario where you cannot use FGS (let’s not use blinks guys).

That’s very cool. That’s what I meant by bypassing support altogether. The fight gets over so quickly that not even reflects matter anymore.

I’m wondering on the 2nd bit too. In the 2nd scenario, that would be a scenario where a thief is likely able to go behind for the extra damage.

I forgot that the Eles can cover all the vuln that’s ever needed too.

You have enough vuln with ranger, 3 ele and 1 war though. And engi has kitten dps so.

laharl.8435:

My thinking was 3 ele’s so everyone would have an fgs. Warrior would run OMM instead of FGJ.

When I ran with 3 ele’s, 1 war and 1 engi, when we weren’t using fgs the war and engi gave 25 vuln.

That’s a good point, I retract my previous post and endorse this.

Ahh point to Dutchiez

forgive me as I had spaced that you guys had done that. and had done all the number backing to make it happen.

so to alter the concept then. take the wall out of the equation.

highest Damage team with no wall?

speed kill bloom hunger ???

spoj.9672:

You have enough vuln with ranger, 3 ele and 1 war though. And engi has kitten dps so.

Ah, I haven’t run with that setup in an organized way, so I didn’t know if they could keep full vuln

dutchiez.7502:

I agree with 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger as demonstrated here

It would be interesting to talk about the highest DPS team in a scenario where you cannot use FGS (let’s not use blinks guys).

Dutchiez, in the video you posted (very impressive, btw), do you guys wait for that first kick to start your DPS cycle and have him “stuck in animation” for the swarm summon to bypass the invulnerable phase changes?

Without wall (and no reflects needed) I’m thinking 1 ele, 1 thief, 2 rangers and a war.

Ele could stack might with blasts from others, rangers will have traited and untraited frost spirit and warrior will have banners. I’m just not sure whether taking the ranger over another ele or thief maybe will be a DPS loss, someone will have to crunch the numbers to see if spotter + frost spirit is worth it.

DigitalKirin.9714:

dutchiez.7502:

I agree with 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger as demonstrated here

It would be interesting to talk about the highest DPS team in a scenario where you cannot use FGS (let’s not use blinks guys).

Dutchiez, in the video you posted (very impressive, btw), do you guys wait for that first kick to start your DPS cycle and have him “stuck in animation” for the swarm summon to bypass the invulnerable phase changes?

Yes, although actually it’s the grub summon animation.

dutchiez.7502:

Yes, although actually it’s the grub summon animation.

Cool, thanks for the info!

From our recruitment page:

Anierna.6918:

Our group comp is usually: 1 War (30/0/0/20/20, a/m + horn or GS), 1 Thief (30/30/0/0/10, d/d + sw/p), 1 staff Ele (30/20/10/10/0), 1 LH Ele (10/25/10/25/0, s/x), and 1 other. Depending on the dungeon, that “other” is one of the following: Guard (20/25/0/0/25, sw/f + GS), Mes (10/30/0/20/10, sw/f + OH sw), or Ranger (30/25/0/15/0, sw/horn, feline pet). Applicants must trial with one of these classes/builds; that means no Necros or Engis.

LH ele + Rush = 25 vuln. Thief + Rush =25 vuln. Staggering their Rushes = 80% uptime on 25 vuln (near-perma if the staff ele goes 25 in Air, due to the condi duration from 30 fire). Although, all that matters is that the first Rushes from those 2 will cause 25 vuln for 8 secs on bosses, since by the time the vuln would wear off at the 8 sec mark, everything is already dead.

The vuln from the LH ele and thief means the War can go 30/0/0/20/20 instead of 30/10/0/20/10, which is what Nike advocated in his vid. Nike was wrong; not mentioning that Guang’s build was better when vuln is already capped was a significant oversight (perhaps made intentionally? I dont particularly like Guang either, but I would have given him credit, and I wouldnt have taken the shot at him that Nike did in his vid).

The thief is there instead of a 3rd Ele because stealth makes so many things easier, and the DPS loss is minimal. Plus, seeing that 6th FGS unused on the ground would just really annoy me.

One Ele is staff to provide Fire fields for the LH Ele. Perma 25 might.

The ranger is there for Spotter and Frost Spirit.

Once I saw a dolyak do the impossible. If we could get more dolyaks, it would be deadly.

My group use :
-1 Staff Elementalist
-1 LH Elementalist
- 1 Warrior

The two last profession change depending on the dungeon.
- 1 Mesmer for their utilities
- 1 Warrior for pure DPS
- 1 Guardian for reflect and Aegis

We would also like to experiment with Thief and Rangers, but nobody want to put time on these toons right now. Maybe in the future.

We don’t use all the same build as Anierma.
- Warrior is 30/25/0/0/15
- LH Ele is 25/10/10/25/0 for burning and 10% Dmg on burning foe. Both build seem good anyways depending on your party.

5 warriors is best DPS. Anyone who disagrees just doesn’t want warriors to get nerfed.

Anierna.6918:

The vuln from the LH ele and thief means the War can go 30/0/0/20/20 instead of 30/10/0/20/10, which is what Nike advocated in his vid. Nike was wrong; not mentioning that Guang’s build was better when vuln is already capped was a significant oversight (perhaps made intentionally? I dont particularly like Guang either, but I would have given him credit, and I wouldnt have taken the shot at him that Nike did in his vid).

No, I am right. There are more considerations in dungeons and fractals than fiery rushing against a wall. the build I posted isn’t a CoE or AC specific build. Obviously, you tailor your build based around instance and party comps, especially in record runs. However, for a general purpose build you can use anywhere in any group, mine is a pretty superior trait allocation. Which build would you bring to Arah? which would you bring to Fractals? Clearly, your Ascalonian Catacombs farm build is not the final word.

FWIW, I get along fine with GK. He is happy to correct me when I make a mistake and I’m happy to do the same for him. He didn’t take it as a personal attack, nor was it intended to be. Generally speaking, his build was the first published EA min/max and as such it is/was the meta. I had to explain and justify why I deviated from it in, which I did. If I had said “Guang is dumb” or “Guang is a bad player” that would definitely be a shot. Saying he overlooked the value of Rending Strikes and over-emphasized the value of Eviscerate is not a shot by any means.

edit: spoj. Weth did the math breakdown and the Eviscerate spam comes out a bit behind against bosses and way behind against non-bosses

Have you considered 20/30/0/20/0 for EA? You dont lack crit chance. You still have vuln. And you can eviscerate for extra dps. 10% + eviscerate surely > 15% and no eviscerate?

Get your 5 man party into HotM and I’ll tell you your party DPS while you bully the Indestructible Heavy Golem.

normal fights:
base – 2 ele (staff and lh), war (axe?)
ranger/engi/thief, guardian

fgs corner:
3 ele, bers thief/ranger/mesmer, war

You already answered your own question “on paper” in your opening post. Every path is different and expecially when taking the clear time into consideration plain DPS will become less important.
If you just want “maximum dps”, 1 warrior 1 ranger and 3 eles will probably result in the highest possible damage, combining spotter, empower allies, frost spirit and both banners with 5 fiery greatswords, of course facing a wall.
But again, killing the boss isn’t everything you have to worry about.

Wall: 3 Eles, 1 Warrior, 1 Ranger.

No Wall: 3 Eles, 1 Warrior, 1 Mesmer.

Agony.3542:

You already answered your own question “on paper” in your opening post. Every path is different and expecially when taking the clear time into consideration plain DPS will become less important.
If you just want “maximum dps”, 1 warrior 1 ranger and 3 eles will probably result in the highest possible damage, combining spotter, empower allies, frost spirit and both banners with 5 fiery greatswords, of course facing a wall.
But again, killing the boss isn’t everything you have to worry about.

Yes, but with that Lupi fight over so fast, I suppose Mesmer’s feedback isn’t even necessary anymore.

Okay, supposing stability is required the ideal team would be (for pure DPS):

3 eles, 1 warrior, 1 guardian?

When is it better to bring a Mesmer for the Time Warp?

I know that Mesmer isn’t just for Time Warp, but how far behind/ahead is Time Warp compared to what the Ranger brings?

In a no wall fight, is it worth it to bring the guardian for better sustain?

I would prefer time warp over aegis for a sustainable fight without wall. But, 2 ele, 1 thief, 1 ranger and 1 war is the best for no wall fight, imo. Thief and war means a lot of CC that you can avoid meaningless dodge. This is based on my observation with the golem boss in CoE.

xallever.1874:

Yes, but with that Lupi fight over so fast, I suppose Mesmer’s feedback isn’t even necessary anymore.

Okay, supposing stability is required the ideal team would be (for pure DPS):

3 eles, 1 warrior, 1 guardian?

When is it better to bring a Mesmer for the Time Warp?

I know that Mesmer isn’t just for Time Warp, but how far behind/ahead is Time Warp compared to what the Ranger brings?

In a no wall fight, is it worth it to bring the guardian for better sustain?

Time warp and FGS don’t synergize too well, since the main FGS damage is very cooldwon reliant. A mesmer is rarely a good addition for “speedkilling x”, unless you mainly use autoattacks for your damage (that is what quickness mainly affects….). So in fact, timewarp is pretty much always a waste, and shouldn’t be your reason to bring a mesmer.

And again, as long as you just care for max dps, granted you can use fiery rush facing a wall etc. 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger will deliver it. I don’t think there is any mob in this game that can live long enough to outlast the stability war/ele/ranger has built in. There is simply no need for a guard. But keep in mind, this is about maxdps and speedkilling, and as I’ve already said, that’s not what you really want to be looking for. Sure it is nice to set some record for speedkilling Lupi etc. but when you theorycraft IMO it’s better to focus on more on the “praxis side”, ie actually running the a dungeon/fractal.

Agony.3542:

xallever.1874:

Yes, but with that Lupi fight over so fast, I suppose Mesmer’s feedback isn’t even necessary anymore.

Okay, supposing stability is required the ideal team would be (for pure DPS):

3 eles, 1 warrior, 1 guardian?

When is it better to bring a Mesmer for the Time Warp?

I know that Mesmer isn’t just for Time Warp, but how far behind/ahead is Time Warp compared to what the Ranger brings?

In a no wall fight, is it worth it to bring the guardian for better sustain?

Time warp and FGS don’t synergize too well, since the main FGS damage is very cooldwon reliant. A mesmer is rarely a good addition for “speedkilling x”, unless you mainly use autoattacks for your damage (that is what quickness mainly affects….). So in fact, timewarp is pretty much always a waste, and shouldn’t be your reason to bring a mesmer.

And again, as long as you just care for max dps, granted you can use fiery rush facing a wall etc. 3 ele, 1 war, 1 ranger will deliver it. I don’t think there is any mob in this game that can live long enough to outlast the stability war/ele/ranger has built in. There is simply no need for a guard. But keep in mind, this is about maxdps and speedkilling, and as I’ve already said, that’s not what you really want to be looking for. Sure it is nice to set some record for speedkilling Lupi etc. but when you theorycraft IMO it’s better to focus on more on the “praxis side”, ie actually running the a dungeon/fractal.

Actually, when I thought about Mesmer, I was thinking about a no wall situation. 3 Eles is for the LH instead of the FGS. With 1 Ele on Staff and the rest on LH, Time Warp this (useful on AA as you said) is it better than bringing a Ranger?

What makes me happy about this thread is that although Rangers get little to no respect the majority of the time at least people understand a good Ranger can be a major asset to DPS and group support.
I got a lot of kicks before even saying “hi” when I used my Ranger but also got a lot of compliments on my support and damage with the groups that let me stay. So although it’s a frustrating situation to be in when you’re using the Ranger profession, it’s nice to see that people do understand a good Ranger can be a big help… Unfortunately 99.9% are terrible.

Anyway, I’d probably say either;
2 Elementalists – Firey Greatsword(s)/Might stacks
1 Warrior – Banners/Shouts
1 Mesmer – Timewarp
and 1 Ranger – Frost Spirit/Spotter/Warhorn/Moa’s

I’m positive the other professions have more to offer than what I’ve listed but I’m not as familiar with them as I am Ranger. Still, I believe that’d be a great DPSing group.

Without a wall it’s pretty obviously 3 eles, 1 warrior, 1 mesmer. Four times fiery rush + blink and five ice storms are enough to kill any level 80-82 dungeon boss. And if they aren’t, you still have 5 seconds of timewarp left.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

What makes me happy about this thread is that although Rangers get little to no respect the majority of the time at least people understand a good Ranger can be a major asset to DPS and group support.
I got a lot of kicks before even saying “hi” when I used my Ranger but also got a lot of compliments on my support and damage with the groups that let me stay. So although it’s a frustrating situation to be in when you’re using the Ranger profession, it’s nice to see that people do understand a good Ranger can be a big help… Unfortunately 99.9% are terrible.

Anyway, I’d probably say either;
2 Elementalists – Firey Greatsword(s)/Might stacks
1 Warrior – Banners/Shouts
1 Mesmer – Timewarp
and 1 Ranger – Frost Spirit/Spotter/Warhorn/Moa’s

I’m positive the other professions have more to offer than what I’ve listed but I’m not as familiar with them as I am Ranger. Still, I believe that’d be a great DPSing group.

You should never use a moa with such a teamcomp. The fury it gives is completely useless. Use two kittys or one kitty and a drake if you need aoe, cleave and a tanky – but still with good dps – pet.
It’s well-known that the “theorycrafters”, however they like to be called, or “elitists” or whatever are generally more open-minded than “cleric healers” pug scrubs. Not all of them, though. Well, at least most of the former group can accept being wrong and can adapt, unlike the tanky white knights.

2 ele
1 war
1 ranger

if you need some reflect / stabi = guard
if not = ele

Ran CoE just yesterday after writing this… Fastest clear I’ve ever done. Did all paths in less than an hour and each time Alpha died in about 10 seconds. Champ dog before paths begin died in a heartbeat.

Line up was
3 Ele’s
1 Thief
and one Necromancer

The necro in that party (you?) was carried, hard.

frifox.5283:

The necro in that party (you?) was carried, hard.

Because I’m not a Warrior or because you don’t know how to play your Necromancer?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

frifox.5283:

The necro in that party (you?) was carried, hard.

Because I’m not a Warrior or because you don’t know how to play your Necromancer?

because necro doesn’t add anything to the party DPS.

also, not having a warrior = huge DPS loss because of no banners (and EA if you run it)

The amount of damage the eles were doing, especially against alpha compared to your necro is so crazy you might aswell have been afk the whole fight and it would have been the same kill speed.

The things a necro does for the team, a thief does better. Blinds, damage output, etc.

Lindbur.2537:

The things a necro does for the team, a thief does better. Blinds, damage output, etc.

+stealth, shadowsteps and reliable, spammable blast finisher.

I’m just being practical here most I’ve seen or noticed are, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Ele, Guardian. “Zerkers Warriors Only”, or I see bunch of warriors and description says, We need ele only".

I stay away from a group that has more than 2 warriors. Two are already excessive.

4 rifle warriors and a ranger with shortbow, bleed stacks are important.