Guild Wars 2

I hope they have some cooler rewards than skins. I know this is skin wars 2, and I know anet does not want to introduce gear grind. I kinda agree with that, i’d rather just play content than grind for gear, new armor isn’t exciting to me. But cosmetics are even less interesting to me.

But maybe fractals could have unique, useful rewards. Like a repeatably useable once daily revive orb that. Not really that useful, but its something. Or an item that automatically eats luck. I know I would love that. Infinite use salvage kits should be obtainable through instanced content, as that’s where they get used the most I think. Maybe you can upgrade it to automatically salvage certain rarity levels (cough blues+greens) etc. Maybe an item that works like the portal stone, expect you right click it to be teleported to outside any of the dungeons/fractal portal. How about an item that automatically eats your “junk” trophies and rewards you the coins?

It just seems like all the rewards are cosmetic stuff, or a small stat increase on an item in a slot (ascended breather, how is that useful?). Not really that creative, not that interesting, and not really improving my experience playing the game.

Rednik.3809:

Malediktus.9250:

That solves nothing unless everyone is forced to buy 3 of those rings for each skin he buys.

Why everyone should do it? It’s your opinion, not everyone.

To keep them hard and tedious to get. I dont want to see them turning into dungeon token weapons.

Malediktus.9250:

Rednik.3809:

Malediktus.9250:

That solves nothing unless everyone is forced to buy 3 of those rings for each skin he buys.

Why everyone should do it? It’s your opinion, not everyone.

To keep them hard and tedious to get. I dont want to see them turning into dungeon token weapons.

Hard? Doing a fractal 29 and getting lucky is hard?

Malediktus.9250:

Rednik.3809:

Malediktus.9250:

That solves nothing unless everyone is forced to buy 3 of those rings for each skin he buys.

Why everyone should do it? It’s your opinion, not everyone.

To keep them hard and tedious to get. I dont want to see them turning into dungeon token weapons.

Why do you care what skins other people have? Lemme guess, “kitten kitten because prestige”, right? I was just at lunch with a friend and we were laughing at how pathetic and sad the concept of prestige in a MMO is.

cthaeh.2168:

Malediktus.9250:

Rednik.3809:

Malediktus.9250:

That solves nothing unless everyone is forced to buy 3 of those rings for each skin he buys.

Why everyone should do it? It’s your opinion, not everyone.

To keep them hard and tedious to get. I dont want to see them turning into dungeon token weapons.

Why do you care what skins other people have? Lemme guess, “kitten kitten because prestige”, right? I was just at lunch with a friend and we were laughing at how pathetic and sad the concept of prestige in a MMO is.

If there is no statistical progression we need cosmetic progression. If you take away cosmetic progression I am ok with it, but then I want a gear treadmill.

The concept of prestige in games isnt any more pathetic than prestige in real life. Remember E=mc² so everything is energy just in a different shape.

We could also have rewards that are not just boring stats/skins. We could get useful functional items.

Malediktus.9250:

cthaeh.2168:

Malediktus.9250:

Rednik.3809:

Malediktus.9250:

That solves nothing unless everyone is forced to buy 3 of those rings for each skin he buys.

Why everyone should do it? It’s your opinion, not everyone.

To keep them hard and tedious to get. I dont want to see them turning into dungeon token weapons.

Why do you care what skins other people have? Lemme guess, “kitten kitten because prestige”, right? I was just at lunch with a friend and we were laughing at how pathetic and sad the concept of prestige in a MMO is.

If there is no statistical progression we need cosmetic progression. If you take away cosmetic progression I am ok with it, but then I want a gear treadmill.

The concept of prestige in games isnt any more pathetic than prestige in real life. Remember E=mc² so everything is energy just in a different shape.

Please explain how they’re getting rid of cosmetic progression when they’re adding new skins? The old skins that have been obtainable for years now are being phased over to purchasable and easier to acquire so people who have been unlucky or are new can grab them after a little effort.

There’s also new legendaries including new graphics for precursors. There’s a legendary back piece… Please explain your assertion here.

If the gold ones are a progression to the blue ones they need to become even harder to get than the blue ones, not the blue ones made easier.

Gav.1425:

I caught the first few min of MMO INKS on one of Teapot’s long-kitten videos and he said you could buy skins with 20 pristine in HOT. I don’t know if anyone can verify his or any source on this, but it brings up the discussion on how many pristines should a skin be worth?

Honestly, if it’s anything less than 100 pristine, I will flip my kitten and I know many players who feel the same way. If you disagree, think about how cool your weapon will be when every one has them all across Tyria. If you don’t get your desired weapon in the time you can farm 100 or 250 pristine, sure, buy it off the NPC, but don’t devalue the achievement of having our skins like this.

So, how many pristines should a skin be worth?

Personally, I say anything less than 100 is spitting in the face of all those who busted kitten to complete the set. just because content has been out for a while doesn’t mean you should give it out for free to anyone who runs a few dailies.

There was a time when PvP ranks weren’t worthless and seeing a shark or phoenix finisher would gather a crowd. It felt awesome to stomp a bunch of people in WvW and have pages of tells asking me how I got a shark or phoenix finisher. No one even had a dragon at the time. Now dragon finishers are trash and anyone who PvPs for over a month has it. That small change had many turn their backs on GW2 achievements and even the game all together. Don’t Obama all your good content.

I say 250.

In closing, don’t give me some crap about how normal frac skins could be for the casual fractal majority and how we should go chase the ghetto rap star golden re-skinned ones if we want to be extreme. If they add at least primary color options on the new skins, then we’ll talk (ie. New gold skin + blue token = Blue fractal skin in MF).

People like you puzzle me. If you can’t enjoy something because somebody else has it, you strike me as the kind of human being that should never be catered to.

As in, you base your enjoyment around what people don’t have relative to you as opposed to just worrying about what you have.

There’s a word for that kind of person but it would probably merit an infraction.

The value of fractal skins is the same as legendaries. One tells you someone grinded or bought gold, and the other is the result of RNG favor. Neither is really an expression of achievement via skill check.

PvE in GW2 is made for the very bad people, so if you cant implement proper skill checks so casuals dont cry, you can only make grind and RNG checks.

Malediktus.9250:

The concept of prestige in games isnt any more pathetic than prestige in real life.

No, there’s a very big difference, because there is absolutely nothing you can do in an MMO that I would consider prestigious.

Go solve some major world problems or amass huge amounts of wealth and power if you want prestige.

Malediktus.9250:

PvE in GW2 is made for the very bad people, so if you cant implement proper skill checks so casuals dont cry, you can only make grind and RNG checks

That, or chill out, play the games for fun, and stop trying to use them as a proxy for real accomplishment. Nothing you do in game will give you a higher place in the social hierarchy.

Malediktus.9250:

Remember E=mc² so everything is energy just in a different shape.

If you want to go that route… I think the natural conclusion is some form of nihilism (which I could agree with), but not something like “video game achievements are prestigious”.

Prestige sells in capitalism. Why do you think a lot of people trade 100s of currency to gems to trade for gold to buy legendaries with it? Or some super expensive Apple Watch in real life. The whole luxury good industry just works on the principle that people want things other people cannot have.

It is a psycholigical thing.

In GW2’s case everyone can grind or try to beat the RNG, but not everyone can be the most skilled person ever. And since Anet wants GW2 to be casual friendly we have to live with this kind of prestige.

I got an Endless Fractal Tonic at a 44-45 and 278 fractals in Fractal Frequenter. It’s no prestige, it’s pure RNG.

Malediktus.9250:

Prestige sells in capitalism. Why do you think a lot of people trade 100s of currency to gems to trade for gold to buy legendaries with it? Or some super expensive Apple Watch in real life. The whole luxury good industry just works on the principle that people want things other people cannot have.

It is a psycholigical thing.

In GW2’s case everyone can grind or try to beat the RNG, but not everyone can be the most skilled person ever. And since Anet wants GW2 to be casual friendly we have to live with this kind of prestige.

Perceived value sells in capitalism.

It’s not the luxury good that grants “prestige” (although many businesses would be happy if you think that way). The “prestige” comes from the money and status that enable you to purchase luxury goods. The luxury good is just a signaling mechanism.

If you blow all your disposable income on some fancy car well beyond your means, you haven’t acquired any prestige, you just really like cars or you’re an idiot.

If you buy that fancy car with your profits as the founder of a giant multinational corporation, you already had social prestige, the car is just a signal. Or you really like cars.

Also, there are some people out there who can appreciate things for their inherent qualities without concern for what other people think or have. Luxury goods often have higher quality, so that is another reason to buy them. For such people, lower prices for “luxury goods” are good.

I can understand if Apple wants to sell you a watch for $10k (which is really low in the luxury watch market…), better margins for them, but I think a customer who would feel angry if Apple lowered its prices is a total fool.

And as you said, everyone can grind or try to get lucky with the RNG. The fractal skins don’t really signal much prestige, there is none lost by making them more easily available.

What does making them so tedious to acquire accomplish? Frustration for all, just so a few can say “I have this item and you don’t, nah nah nah”? There are many ways to encourage people to run fractals without extreme grinding, e.g.:

thrag.9740:

But maybe fractals could have unique, useful rewards. Like a repeatably useable once daily revive orb that. Not really that useful, but its something.

The whole idea of “exclusivity is prestige” in real life is dumb and exploitative (of the dumb), and I do not support extending it anywhere. It’s not about what you own, it’s about what you can do.

Velho.7123:

I got an Endless Fractal Tonic at a 44-45 and 278 fractals in Fractal Frequenter. It’s no prestige, it’s pure RNG.

maybe not your definiton of prestige

“The quality of how good the reputation of something or someone is, how favourably something or someone is regarded.”
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prestige
Also it comes from the latin word for delusion and illusion.

If something is aquired by RNG, grinding or skill does not matter if it has prestige.

I do believe that signature is quite ironic.
…
Wouldn’t care even if they were 1 pristine relic each. I got my pretty swords, axe and mace (and others, but I don’t like them), gonna use them on my revenant and I know there will be no one exactly like her due to my op dye and armor jobs… so yeah, run around with your 1relic weapons, I know what I did to get those skins and nothing can take the satisfaction away from me.
“plz make them stay exclusive”? Hah! Exclusive? RNG? There was 1 attempt at exclusive rewards in this game, and people caused a kittenstorm.

i’m not sure what is the right amount, but 20 is too low.
They are one of the rarest and most unique weapons, getting something like that should take a good chunk of time.
And for people saying they should be really cheap because prestige doesn’t matter in games or some bullkitten like that, making people work towards something, whatever is the exact reason, is one of the most common ways of keeping people playing, giving stuff for too easily would be stupid as kitten.

Thing is it’s old stuff that people have worked towards, and still failed to get. You’re still going to need personal level 50 and then pristines on top. Plenty of work put in, just not some major luck factor. To me anywhere between 20-50 would work fine I don’t see the need to make it a grind.

The luck factor is making them special.

Getting to 50 will be much faster and easier than now after HoT is released because we only have to do 1 island instead of 4. 20 pristines would be way too good considering that it is getting increasingly unlikely to get a skin you are missing the more of them you already have.
Eg. if you have 15 of 19, you only have a 4 out of 19 chance, that the next skin will be one you dont have yet
A compromise might be that the fractal skins will cost more tokens the more you have unlocked. Your first one might cost 20, but each additional one would cost 20+(20*amount of fractal skins unlocked). That would be only 3800 pristine fractal relicts in total if you were unlucky enough to never find any from the RNG method.

Malediktus.9250:

Prestige sells in capitalism. Why do you think a lot of people trade 100s of currency to gems to trade for gold to buy legendaries with it? Or some super expensive Apple Watch in real life. The whole luxury good industry just works on the principle that people want things other people cannot have.

It is a psycholigical thing.

In GW2’s case everyone can grind or try to beat the RNG, but not everyone can be the most skilled person ever. And since Anet wants GW2 to be casual friendly we have to live with this kind of prestige.

I spent 200 bucks on gem store to get the remaining dreamthistle weapons I was missing BECAUSE I LIKE THEM, I LIKE HOW THEY LOOK. I LIKE WHEN MY CHARACTER LOOKS GOOD.

How hard is it for you to understand that not everyone is as petty as you, deriving enjoyment just from seeing things denied to others.

Capitalism isn’t about what others can’t have. You have a really twisted idea of human motivation and hierarchy.

It is good for you if you equip things you like. I always equip the most rare and precious items I have even if I dont like them.

At this point of the discussion… /shrug. It s—ks to be you!

It just kinda seems like you got a fractal sword on your 26th fractal run and now you’re taking some position of superiority and calling for a monopoly on Fractal skin ownership

Element Two.7316:

It just kinda seems like you got a fractal sword on your 26th fractal run and now you’re taking some position of superiority and calling for a monopoly on Fractal skin ownership

I dont even know how many fractal runs I did, but I did a lot. Yet I only have 15 out of 19 skins and I am fine with it being a longterm goal to find all of them.

There is only one other requirement I’d be ok with them putting on. Fractal Frequenter, if you’ve completed that it’s unlocked and you’re good to go. I’d be ok with that. I don’t think it should be some massive pristine sink, I don’t think it should be left to luck (the new golden system si better, but I still HATE RNG). Fractal frequenter means 500 fractals, something I think most people really after a certain skin have already accomplished. And, those up and coming will hit it eventually.

Zenith.7301:

Malediktus.9250:

Prestige sells in capitalism. Why do you think a lot of people trade 100s of currency to gems to trade for gold to buy legendaries with it? Or some super expensive Apple Watch in real life. The whole luxury good industry just works on the principle that people want things other people cannot have.

It is a psycholigical thing.

In GW2’s case everyone can grind or try to beat the RNG, but not everyone can be the most skilled person ever. And since Anet wants GW2 to be casual friendly we have to live with this kind of prestige.

I spent 200 bucks on gem store to get the remaining dreamthistle weapons I was missing BECAUSE I LIKE THEM, I LIKE HOW THEY LOOK. I LIKE WHEN MY CHARACTER LOOKS GOOD.

How hard is it for you to understand that not everyone is as petty as you, deriving enjoyment just from seeing things denied to others.

Capitalism isn’t about what others can’t have. You have a really twisted idea of human motivation and hierarchy.

Calm down with all the ad hominem personal attacks.

The point isn’t petty. These people have worked hard (3 years of grind) to obtain a reward. How do you not see giving that award away for 4 days of fractals per skin as a fair move?

I don’t know what you’re proud of in game, but I guarantee if it was given away for free, you’d have something to say about it. Giving me the dreamthistle collection for pristine relics isn’t nearly the same comparison and you’re right about it not making your DT weapons look any less thisly, but you’d be right to be kittened off.

Nothing about this is denying rewards to others. You’re just holding the line against making this a themepark MMO where everything can be bought with easy to obtain tokens, and making everyone do the same work the pioneers got to get it.

Its not the same value though. It’s not happening in isolation. We’re getting fractal weapons 2.0 at the same time. Want something to show off and claim prestige, well, get your golden version. Old fractal weapons are going on clearance as the new models come in

Also, under the new system, it’s gonna cost you a week (3 daily a day) to get one weapon. I’m also not sure about rare = prestige as I don’t see many fractal staff/scepter/long bow/hammer around that much. Many would just stop caring after getting what they like. Only those who grind are those who want to complete their collection. So yeah, I sympathize people who actually paid for a chance to get the skins for their collection. Not all of us really grind fractals for skins.

Gav.1425:

Zenith.7301:

Malediktus.9250:

Prestige sells in capitalism. Why do you think a lot of people trade 100s of currency to gems to trade for gold to buy legendaries with it? Or some super expensive Apple Watch in real life. The whole luxury good industry just works on the principle that people want things other people cannot have.

It is a psycholigical thing.

In GW2’s case everyone can grind or try to beat the RNG, but not everyone can be the most skilled person ever. And since Anet wants GW2 to be casual friendly we have to live with this kind of prestige.

I spent 200 bucks on gem store to get the remaining dreamthistle weapons I was missing BECAUSE I LIKE THEM, I LIKE HOW THEY LOOK. I LIKE WHEN MY CHARACTER LOOKS GOOD.

How hard is it for you to understand that not everyone is as petty as you, deriving enjoyment just from seeing things denied to others.

Capitalism isn’t about what others can’t have. You have a really twisted idea of human motivation and hierarchy.

Calm down with all the ad hominem personal attacks.

The point isn’t petty. These people have worked hard (3 years of grind) to obtain a reward. How do you not see giving that award away for 4 days of fractals per skin as a fair move?

I don’t know what you’re proud of in game, but I guarantee if it was given away for free, you’d have something to say about it. Giving me the dreamthistle collection for pristine relics isn’t nearly the same comparison and you’re right about it not making your DT weapons look any less thisly, but you’d be right to be kittened off.

Nothing about this is denying rewards to others. You’re just holding the line against making this a themepark MMO where everything can be bought with easy to obtain tokens, and making everyone do the same work the pioneers got to get it.

Bullkitten. I recently got my sword after 2+ years of fractals with most of it being determined grinding (1-3 fracs a day), and I’m happy because I wanted it for my revenant – but in no way I delude myself into thinking I’m special, or prestigious, or it was hard to obtain it. Well, sure, it was time-consuming, only because of that disgusting rng and I’m soooo glad it’s going away. Did I “work” for it? Don’t be ridiculous, it was just praying to rngsus, just some silly numbers (planets) lining up and deciding that I, that day, was worthy.
I remember getting the dagger skin after one of the worst runs I’ve ever done, with me on elly being so bad it almost brought me to tears. Honestly, I should’ve destroyed it. Didn’t deserve even an uninfused ring. I bet my teammates thought the same.

I think I did, well, probably thousands of fractals, yet there are people who got the sword at fractal 11. Was I a little kittened, for a second? Yeah..Then I realised it was mean, it was petty, and being annoyed at other people for getting it the “easy way” was a behaviour worthy of a 5yo. Hell, just the other day I was playing with soap bubbles in my garden, so you can’t say I’m particularly mature… but that? Nah. I’m not good at holding grudges for long – but I can, and I shouldn’t, and I try to fight it.
You gotta fight the 5yo screaming “it’s not fair”. It may not be easy, but… no one’s really taking our toys away. Gotta accept we’re not unique because of those – but I’m unique because of my super cool fashion! Ahem /cough

Now the fractal reset, that was something you could call unfair – not weapons costing 20 pristines each (50 would be fine aswell, but not more than that). Still something you can (and have to) deal with.
Imo, as always.

P.S. If they added rewards for dungeon soloing, dungeons with gambits, dungeons in hard mode or instances similar to liadri (so something that requires a basic amount of skill) yes – I’d probably frown and even protest if people had a ridiculously easy way to get said rewards. But then I’d probably just /shrug, who cares? I got them the “hard” way and I can prove it. The question is: will they give out rewards based on skill? <.<

It took you 2 years and you don’t think it’s special? No one is saying that skins are skill-gated. They’re gated through effort and RNG. If it wasn’t intended to be that way, they would not have implemented it as such.

Considering there are almost no skill-gated rewards in this game, work-gated fractal skins is close to all you have.

You can argue for Champion and pvp-exclusive titles, llama mini pets, and tournament-earned finishers (ie. ToL), but those are probably going to be on sale in the gem store soon enough (tournament finishers already were) or available for some sort of token.

Skill isn’t incentivized as much as grind is here, and now they’re gutting the grind-based rewards at that.

I think you forget the golden fractal skins. Hey, here comes your new grind – if you still want to grind.

I will admit I was a little upset when they first announced the change. But then I realized that until now we have been beating our heads against a wall. And that’s it. Now I have the chance to bring in some friends who never did fractals before because they want those skins. It’s a good change when it means I can play with my friends. I would give up every “prestigious” skin I have for more ways to have fun with my friends. Because right now we really only have open world content, and a few dungeons or living story things. We need more things to do, and hopefully this will happen soon.

Maybe instead of worrying about if everyone will have a fractal weapon after this update we should be asking for skill based skins. Not worrying about skins that up until now have been up for grabs by RNG.

People have been carried through and gotten skins

People have bought fractals and gotten skins

People have just had dumb luck and gotten them.

If anet wants to add skill based skins I would be happy to support it, but I don’t see it happening because people would only complain there is no way for them to ever get them because the skill curve is way to high.

I’m at 18/19 after an excruciatingly long time of trying to get them all, and I’m happy with whatever cost they put just so I can finish it off. That said, I was hoping for around 30 pristines for each skin, so I think 20 is a bit low, but that’s not a big deal. Don’t delude yourselves into thinking 50+ is a reasonable number, however.

I do want to dispel this notion that “prestige is dumb”, however. Prestige matters a lot, and even if RNG is a factor (or the only factor), it plays hugely into how “cool” a person feels and how “cool” other people think that person is. It doesn’t matter if you can throw 2g worth of rares in the MF and score Dusk, when you see someone with Twilight you make certain assertions about their wealth, their status, their time playing the game, so on. Maybe you, specifically, don’t, but a lot of new players absolutely will. That feeling is what prestige buys you, and maybe Fractal weapons are all RNG and you can get them all in 19 back-to-back runs of L29, but when newer players see them they carry certain weight. The number of times in different game formats people go “Wow those weapons are so cool, you must have played a ton to earn those!” to me over my wielding all Fractal weapon skins is astounding, even after I explain that they’re RNG.

So please, don’t make insane claims like “prestige doesn’t matter”. Malediktus is not necessarily communicating efficiently to make the case, but the case is there regardless that prestige matters. This is why ANet is taking the suggestion to have higher tier Fractal weapons that really will serve as elite skins for people to “Ooh” and “Aah” over, this is why they’re adding the Fractal legendary backpack, and so forth. The Fractal skins we have now will carry some small prestige weight, but will be nothing by comparison to the new stuff. That’s the whole point.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m at 18/19 after an excruciatingly long time of trying to get them all, and I’m happy with whatever cost they put just so I can finish it off. That said, I was hoping for around 30 pristines for each skin, so I think 20 is a bit low, but that’s not a big deal. Don’t delude yourselves into thinking 50+ is a reasonable number, however.

I do want to dispel this notion that “prestige is dumb”, however. Prestige matters a lot, and even if RNG is a factor (or the only factor), it plays hugely into how “cool” a person feels and how “cool” other people think that person is. It doesn’t matter if you can throw 2g worth of rares in the MF and score Dusk, when you see someone with Twilight you make certain assertions about their wealth, their status, their time playing the game, so on. Maybe you, specifically, don’t, but a lot of new players absolutely will. That feeling is what prestige buys you, and maybe Fractal weapons are all RNG and you can get them all in 19 back-to-back runs of L29, but when newer players see them they carry certain weight. The number of times in different game formats people go “Wow those weapons are so cool, you must have played a ton to earn those!” to me over my wielding all Fractal weapon skins is astounding, even after I explain that they’re RNG.

So please, don’t make insane claims like “prestige doesn’t matter”. Malediktus is not necessarily communicating efficiently to make the case, but the case is there regardless that prestige matters. This is why ANet is taking the suggestion to have higher tier Fractal weapons that really will serve as elite skins for people to “Ooh” and “Aah” over, this is why they’re adding the Fractal legendary backpack, and so forth. The Fractal skins we have now will carry some small prestige weight, but will be nothing by comparison to the new stuff. That’s the whole point.

I don’t think prestige is dumb. I think the idea of designing a game around bragging and basing your enjoyment on some perceived superiority is dumb, especially when that superiority is not skill-based.

GWAMM is prestige. A spvp tournament champ with his tournament rankings and finishers is prestige. It’s good to feel proud of your accomplishments, but asking that a game not fix kittenty RNG just so you can feel special is stupid.

For every person obsessed about how others perceive them, there’s someone who could quite frankly not care any less. They play this game to have pretty characters with pretty effects in gameplay they find fun, and others’ positions relative to them has no bearing on their enjoyment/goals for the game. And they don’t appreciate arbitrary barriers to what they play the game for, aesthetics.

Zenith.7301:

I don’t think prestige is dumb. I think the idea of designing a game around bragging and basing your enjoyment on some perceived superiority is dumb, especially when that superiority is not skill-based.

GWAMM is prestige. A spvp tournament champ with his tournament rankings and finishers is prestige. It’s good to feel proud of your accomplishments, but asking that a game not fix kittenty RNG just so you can feel special is stupid.

For every person obsessed about how others perceive them, there’s someone who could quite frankly not care any less. They play this game to have pretty characters with pretty effects in gameplay they find fun, and others’ positions relative to them has no bearing on their enjoyment/goals for the game. And they don’t appreciate arbitrary barriers to what they play the game for, aesthetics.

Well said. I agree entirely with what you have said here, and by no means should the notion of prestige force painful acquisition methods for items upon players. I’m very happy with their solution, and have been pushing for it for a long time, I just wanted to make sure that some of the people (not yourself) who were arguing against prestige in this thread understood that it does serve a purpose when generated correctly.

And you’re absolutely right. Nothing in GW2 has thus far felt more prestigious to me than my GWAMM title and 50/50 in the HoM.

It seems the argument for the current RNG system is that the game is so casual there are no other forms of prestige, so taking this one away leaves the game with nothing (PvE-wise).

IMO this is not too far from the truth. I’ve found that a lot of people enjoy the skins precisely because of the suffering they had to go through to get them. It’ll be interesting to see how people view these skins once they’re easier to get.

In any case, I think something that might’ve worked is to have the RNG ease up as you do more runs — so you’d have more chance to get a skin the more runs you do. This would be secret to the players of course — so they feel like they finally hit the jackpot instead of having had the skin handed to them.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I do want to dispel this notion that “prestige is dumb”, however. Prestige matters a lot, and even if RNG is a factor (or the only factor), it plays hugely into how “cool” a person feels and how “cool” other people think that person is.

Well, I personally don’t care one bit about things like ‘prestige’, but I understand that player differentiation through items that take effort to acquire provides a “coolness” factor for some.

I think there are two separate camps of players (some care about item exclusivity, others are pretty indifferent). For balance, I would not make items super trivial to acquire, but I’m also against long non-skill gated grinds.

If an item is supposed to represent “elite status” through scarcity, I think the mechanisms behind the scarcity are very important.

I think it’s absolutely hideous to assign “elite status” arbitrarily, so RNG is not an appropriate mechanism at all for handing out “elite” rewards. Lottery winners do not deserve any extra respect or attention.

I also oppose long grinds, because I do not think that mere repetition grants merit. A player who did 500 Fractal 50 runs isn’t so different from someone who did 100 runs. At that point, they’ve already proven they can do Fractal 50. The extra “prestige” from the grinding is entirely outweighed by the frustration and disappointment that such a grind imposes.

I have no objection to highly exclusive rewards earned through things like PvP tournaments; the player differentiation there is very clear and obvious. A champion in a contest of skill against other humans deserves better rewards without any doubt. Exclusive trophies are fine.

I think the new fractal skin system has sufficient barriers to acquisition already, without a lengthy RNG-based grind or some enormous amount of pristine relics. You have to finish fractal 50, which probably means you had to go through the process of acquiring ascended trinkets + armor + weapons. You went through 50 levels of ascending difficulty. That’s enough already to restrict the items and make them “cool” by scarcity.

I also highly object to the idea that it’s wrong for Anet to lower the cost of “elite” items. If you decided to grind it out prior to the change, you had 2-3 years of “high exclusivity” already. No one is obligated to protect the perceived value of your time “investment”. The idea that anyone has a right to be protected from “asset devaluation” is ossifying and highly poisonous.

Lord Kuru.3685:

It seems the argument for the current RNG system is that the game is so casual there are no other forms of prestige, so taking this one away leaves the game with nothing (PvE-wise).

IMO this is not too far from the truth. I’ve found that a lot of people enjoy the skins precisely because of the suffering they had to go through to get them. It’ll be interesting to see how people view these skins once they’re easier to get.

In any case, I think something that might’ve worked is to have the RNG ease up as you do more runs — so you’d have more chance to get a skin the more runs you do. This would be secret to the players of course — so they feel like they finally hit the jackpot instead of having had the skin handed to them.

It’s a typical psychological trick. But don’t be fooled, that relief/surge you get from when the RNG favors you is as much a product of being done with bad luck and a game withholding something from you.

I’m a big proponent of not lengthening a game with tedium substituting for actual content.

If you are skilled enough to beat any game in 20 hours instead of 60 hours, for example, there’s nothing wrong. A game should only gate you by giving you a skill check. Busywork grinds on content that has long grown stale for you are not good content. In that case you might ask yourself why you’re playing a game that assigns you activities that resemble chores.

I think in this sense pvp players are rather privileged as unlike pve players, they can generate their own spontaneous content while we PvE players need to wait until Anet realizes it’s been 3 years of no meaningful updates to dungeons. So all the pve players have to keep themselves busy is the skins/aesthetics grinds.

Zenith.7301:

Lord Kuru.3685:

It seems the argument for the current RNG system is that the game is so casual there are no other forms of prestige, so taking this one away leaves the game with nothing (PvE-wise).

IMO this is not too far from the truth. I’ve found that a lot of people enjoy the skins precisely because of the suffering they had to go through to get them. It’ll be interesting to see how people view these skins once they’re easier to get.

In any case, I think something that might’ve worked is to have the RNG ease up as you do more runs — so you’d have more chance to get a skin the more runs you do. This would be secret to the players of course — so they feel like they finally hit the jackpot instead of having had the skin handed to them.

It’s a typical psychological trick. But don’t be fooled, that relief/surge you get from when the RNG favors you is as much a product of being done with bad luck and a game withholding something from you.

I’m a big proponent of not lengthening a game with tedium substituting for actual content.

If you are skilled enough to beat any game in 20 hours instead of 60 hours, for example, there’s nothing wrong. A game should only gate you by giving you a skill check. Busywork grinds on content that has long grown stale for you are not good content. In that case you might ask yourself why you’re playing a game that assigns you activities that resemble chores.

I think in this sense pvp players are rather privileged as unlike pve players, they can generate their own spontaneous content while we PvE players need to wait until Anet realizes it’s been 3 years of no meaningful updates to dungeons. So all the pve players have to keep themselves busy is the skins/aesthetics grinds.

Anet isn’t even close to putting out the amount of content needed to keep PvE players satisfied, so all they have is grind, RNG, and time-gating to artificially stretch out the length of the game. Doesn’t look like HoT is gonna have much content either — much less small-man content.

When a see a GWAMM my thought is “kitten I should go do that” When I see a Flintlock rifle even more so. I tip my hat and say “nice”.

When I saw the Fractal sword back when I really wanted it (since then I have 3 different skins I prefer… and I’ve gotten it now but don’t use it) my thought was not the same at all, it was simply “kitten you’re lucky, and kitten ANet and any RNG based loot system.”

Rewind a year and I would have said 100 pristines isn’t over the top. But, with the new skins coming (with a far better system, still RNG but RNG that’s far less fickle) I think 20 is perfectly fair, and anything between that an 50 seems right to me.

Rising Dusk.2408:

And you’re absolutely right. Nothing in GW2 has thus far felt more prestigious to me than my GWAMM title and 50/50 in the HoM.

Oh pls. I started working on GWAMM after they broke HOM and finished before they fixed it. Took about 400-500 hr

Why not make it so you can buy the skin you want from npc for 1 other fractal skin + xx amount of pristines. Would fix the situation where some are unlucky and keep getting skins they don’t want, without making the skins super farmable.

Skady.5916:

Oh pls. I started working on GWAMM after they broke HOM and finished before they fixed it. Took about 400-500 hr

Yea, and what in GW2 takes anywhere close to that time?

Element Two.7316:

Skady.5916:

Oh pls. I started working on GWAMM after they broke HOM and finished before they fixed it. Took about 400-500 hr

Yea, and what in GW2 takes anywhere close to that time?

More over, it’s 400-500h when you know the game perfectly well and focus only on it, and with discordway and/or sabway. Average time to get it is nowhere close to this.

Kordash.2197:

Element Two.7316:

Skady.5916:

Oh pls. I started working on GWAMM after they broke HOM and finished before they fixed it. Took about 400-500 hr

Yea, and what in GW2 takes anywhere close to that time?

More over, it’s 400-500h when you know the game perfectly well and focus only on it, and with discordway and/or sabway. Average time to get it is nowhere close to this.

I knew nothing about the game but I did have a friend who helped me to get through tough places like DoA etc. GW has very detailed wiki – that’s enough to learn about the game

My point was that GWAMM just takes certain amount of time invested. Fractal weapon collection on the other is elusive and can take you any time between 10 hr and infinity.

Skady.5916:

My point was that GWAMM just takes certain amount of time invested. Fractal weapon collection on the other is elusive and can take you any time between 10 hr and infinity.

All things just take time investment. Even the hardest raids from the hardest games you can possibly think of just take time to learn and master and beat.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Skady.5916:

My point was that GWAMM just takes certain amount of time invested. Fractal weapon collection on the other is elusive and can take you any time between 10 hr and infinity.

All things just take time investment. Even the hardest raids from the hardest games you can possibly think of just take time to learn and master and beat.

I’d disagree, there are things including games out there that take more than just time but also at least some level of skill. Pretty sure no matter how much I tried I’d never fully remember the pattern for the last level of Battle Toads and I’d just never get that done.

I guess I just see skill as it’s used in a video game as something that takes time to acquire. I’ve taught some pretty abysmal video game players how to beat some pretty tough stuff in games, all with varying amounts of time, but it always just came down to time.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Skady.5916:

My point was that GWAMM just takes certain amount of time invested. Fractal weapon collection on the other is elusive and can take you any time between 10 hr and infinity.

All things just take time investment. Even the hardest raids from the hardest games you can possibly think of just take time to learn and master and beat.

I totally agree with your statement but please read what I said above – it has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

I am talking about the fact that currently fractal weapon collection is a pure RNG and has no “time invested” requirement whatsoever. One individual can get lucky and obtain that collection in 19 runs (lets call it 10hr if he bought those runs) while another individual might never get it even thou he did thousands or even millions of runs.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I guess I just see skill as it’s used in a video game as something that takes time to acquire. I’ve taught some pretty abysmal video game players how to beat some pretty tough stuff in games, all with varying amounts of time, but it always just came down to time.

Yup ! Even games like “I wanna be the guy”, or “Meat Boy”, or even “Dark Souls”, that have the reputation to be super hard, are just a matter of time investement for any normal human being.