Guild Wars 2

Deathly Shadowfain.7213:

If i remember clearly, the gw2 community cried to Anet for harder content

You’re memory is wrong then, I never cried for harder content, I didn’t want it, and I still don’t. Maybe you and your ilk cried, but me and mine didn’t.

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?

No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.

It’s so hard to understand because you aren’t making coherent criticisms. Your argument that you can just buy Ascended with a currency completely ignores the slow rate at wich you earn said currency (100 per week unless your lucky) and the relative worth of said currency for purchasing other raid rewards.

To put it simply raiding is not an efficient way of getting ascended gear. It takes at least 2 weeks for something cheap like boots or up to 5 weeks for a two handed weapon.

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?

No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.

It’s so hard to understand because you aren’t making coherent criticisms. Your argument that you can just buy Ascended with a currency completely ignores the slow rate at wich you earn said currency (100 per week unless your lucky) and the relative worth of said currency for purchasing other raid rewards.

To put it simply raiding is not an efficient way of getting ascended gear. It takes at least 2 weeks for something cheap like boots or up to 5 weeks for a two handed weapon.

My Criticism is coherent, and sound, it’s just a matter of you not liking, hence why you think I hit the nail and missed the wood. No, I made a very viable point.

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?

No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

It’s like saying “I like killing enviromental NPCs and I want to get the same reward as people doing fractals!” or “Why do tier 4 fractals give you better rewards compared to tier 1 fractal?” or “Why do you get better rewards for reaching Legendary compared to reaching Emerald?” or “Why do you get better rewards for winning in PvP?” or “Why do you get better rewards for killing players in WvW?” or “Why do you get better rewards for doing dungeons quicker compared to doing the slower?”

The reason for all this is: “The harder the thing you do = The better the loot you get”.
The current rewards for raids are “ok” for the difficulty. Just accept it.

Neox.3497:

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

By this logic the best rewards should be exclusive to PvP, is that what you want?

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Aceofsppades.6873:

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bysvyken.6235:

I really don’t understand all this talk of minorities.
Being capable of raiding isn’t some minority you’re born into like race/ethnicity, it’s simply researching and participating in something. The only ones stopping you from becoming part of this “minority” are yourselves.

Demographics in gaming communities — at least the ones being talked about in discussions like this one — are based around preferences. For instance, I’m in a demographic that prefers not to raid but doesn’t worry about exclusive rewards being in that content. Yes, that group exists. It might well be the real “majority” regarding this issue. My reason to not raid is that I promised myself back during WoW I would not get sucked into the raiding time sink again. While it looks like the time commitment for GW2 raids is lower, it’s still higher than I care to commit to.

Bysvyken.6235:

How far do we stretch this logic?
I’m no good at PvP, you have to let me get the PvP legendary backpiece by participating in hot-join.
I’m no good at high level fractals, you have to let me get the legendary backpiece by participating in fractals 1-10.

Back when the game launched, there was some thought that most rewards would be obtained via Karma as a sort of universal currency. Even then, though, making L. weapons required doing at least one dungeon and real WvW (pre EotM or achievement chests with Badges). Also, dungeon skins were only available for use in PvE by doing that dungeon. So, there were unique rewards tied to specific content even then.

A funny thing’s happened since. ANet learned that: (a) a lot of players would not repeat content without reward; and (b) that players would seek the path of least resistance to obtain the universal currency, ignoring any other content. This led to the idea that players could be enticed to do specific content by including rewards they can’t get elsewhere — whether this is a matter of degree (rares via world bosses) or exclusivity (Glorious Armor). Karma was incorporated as a component into a few collection rewards, but was otherwise largely abandoned.

Now, virtually every new thing the devs throw out for players to do has an exclusive reward attached to it. What we’re seeing in threads like this one is the reaction from players who still have attachments to the idea behind that universal currency and what it meant to them — even though ANet pretty much abandoned universal access regardless of preference long ago.

Not really, all the “exclusive” stuff was purely cosmetic skins, right up to LS2, with Luminescent being rare for pity’s sake, but exclusive cosmetics, have been in the game since day one.

The real problem here, is that shoehorned the entire game into Raids being the “end game”, as they give the best access to the higher rewards then any other game mode.

Prior to that, players could pick what they wanted their end game to be and still get around same overall loot value, now, Anet set it as ‘raids’ as their game. And while it’s their game, they can do whatever they want, for the people that don’t want to bother with doing raids, to be stuck forever playing the ‘Bert Bell Benefit Bowl’ if you will.

It’s pretty clear that’s going over as well as a fart in a church.

Now, what is done can’t really be undone, so now they are faced with the issue of making other content that offers an equal abundance of ‘end game’ rewards as well as a feeling of pride, that players can do in alternative to raids.

LS3, will not fit the bill.

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

So basically you don’t want people that do content you don’t like to be rewarded with ascended armor?

No, I want to be rewarded as well for doing other content that I do enjoy, I don’t see why that is so hard to understand.

It’s so hard to understand because you aren’t making coherent criticisms. Your argument that you can just buy Ascended with a currency completely ignores the slow rate at wich you earn said currency (100 per week unless your lucky) and the relative worth of said currency for purchasing other raid rewards.

To put it simply raiding is not an efficient way of getting ascended gear. It takes at least 2 weeks for something cheap like boots or up to 5 weeks for a two handed weapon.

My Criticism is coherent, and sound, it’s just a matter of you not liking, hence why you think I hit the nail and missed the wood. No, I made a very viable point.

Your criticism doesn’t really apply to gw2 because a) other content is fairly rewarding and b) raids aren’t that rewarding. On a per week basis raid rewards are nothing to right home about.

I should really hammer this point home. Unless your idea of other content is RP then the content is appropriately rewarding and is probably more sustainably rewarding than raiding.

Again raids are not sustainably rewarding.

That is why you criticism is incoherent, because the flaw you are criticizing doesn’t actually exist.

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

By this logic the best rewards should be exclusive to PvP, is that what you want?

Because everybody can get into League 4 with just facerolling the keyboard like a guildie of mine who is absoluteley incapable of playing properly?

cranos.5913:

Astralporing.1957:

Neox.3497:

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

“Murder, arson and jaywalking”. One of those really sticks out, you know. Unless you’ll start claiming that getting raid armor is equivalent in difficulty to open world map completion.

Yes, backpacks are slightly different (though i’d say that while their time commitment is quite high, the difficulty, while higher than for weapons, is still not even close to the one from raids). But then, there are two of them. And Anet, by introducing both of them at the same time, gave a clear message that they won’t be locked to a single game mode. They will be able now to introduce more of them in other modes, if they’ll ever feel the need, and nobody will bat an eye. And even if they won’t, there’s still choice how to get one. Armor however is locked behind a single game mode, and one, that by design (and by dev statements) is meant for only a small subset of players.

Can’t you really see any difference?

(by the way, you don’t have to do any “certain dungeon” anymore, and haven’t needed to do it for a long time. And you don’t, because sPvP players complained about it, and so got the dungeon rewards tracks)

Can’t you see the difference either? The skins are different. That’s the important distinction to make here. No one minds other ppl getting legendary armor, what matters is that ppl are asking for the exact same reward.

At this very moment i’m not really asking for the same skins (after all, i don’t even know how they’ll look like). It’s just (again) that the chance of getting the same set through other means is much greater than Anet making a separate set for other gamemode.

To sum it up:

1. Creating the collestions, and “path to legendary” apparently takes a lot of resources. So many, that the current legendary team got dissolved.

2. Anet mentioned many times before, that (unlike with weapons), just makings the new armor skins is a huge effort.

That makes me think that seeing a different legendary armor set obtainable through a different gamemode is highly unlikely within any reasonable timeframe.

Currently, the raid armor is the only set, and it will remain the only one for a foreseeable future. Anything i do from now must take that into consideration.

Thus, supporting easy mode raids with slower path for current raid armor, as this is the only reasonable option left (as it takes care of both problems – no need for completely new collection and path, no need for new skin).

(notice, by the way, that many raiders that say they’re completely fine with me obtaining a different armor through other means are completely aware of the above, and that’s why they are suggesting it. They can sound reasonable this way, while at the same time making sure i’ll get nothing.)

Deathly Shadowfain.7213:

Soooo the people who are complaining want to strip any sense of pride and hard work from those who put in the hours so that THEY can receive the same reward?

You have me confused here. Does your sense of pride come from finishing hard content, or from wearing stuff? Because, from what you say, it seems the latter (as the former will in no way be impacted by creating easy mode raids).

Deathly Shadowfain.7213:

If i remember clearly, the gw2 community cried to Anet for harder content, we got it and what did we get? Raids…..

You remember wrong. Community as a whole asked for new content, but only a small subset of that community wanted that content to be harder.

Deathly Shadowfain.7213:

Raids are designed for a very small “elite as you may say” group of players who Anet KNOW will put in effort, the time, spend money on gear.

Yes. Precisely. They are designed for a very small group of people. That is the problem.

Aceofsppades.6873:

Your criticism doesn’t really apply to gw2 because a) other content is fairly rewarding and b) raids aren’t that rewarding. On a per week basis raid rewards are nothing to right home about.

I should really hammer this point home. Unless your idea of other content is RP then the content is appropriately rewarding and is probably more sustainably rewarding than raiding.

Again raids are not sustainably rewarding.

That is why you criticism is incoherent, because the flaw you are criticizing doesn’t actually exist.

So raids are not rewarding, raiders playing it for challenge, legendary armor is just same thing like some ascended set, etc etc, but what happens when someone trying to make a suggestion about some alternative way to get them? Yeah, right.

Rednik.3809:

Aceofsppades.6873:

Your criticism doesn’t really apply to gw2 because a) other content is fairly rewarding and b) raids aren’t that rewarding. On a per week basis raid rewards are nothing to right home about.

I should really hammer this point home. Unless your idea of other content is RP then the content is appropriately rewarding and is probably more sustainably rewarding than raiding.

Again raids are not sustainably rewarding.

That is why you criticism is incoherent, because the flaw you are criticizing doesn’t actually exist.

So raids are not rewarding, raiders playing it for challenge, legendary armor is just same thing like some ascended set, etc etc, but what happens when someone trying to make a suggestion about some alternative way to get them? Yeah, right.

Legendary armor is a unique skin.
Ascended armor are BIS gear.
Raids aren’t sustainably rewarding ascended gear.
Envoy legendary armor is unique to raids.
Legendary armor is a raid reward.
Unique skin rewards can’t be usefully assigned value.
Having unique raid rewards are good.

You should probably stop trying to hijack conversation to push you’re agenda where you try to stamp out uniqueness and variety in the games reward system.

Aceofsppades.6873:

Legendary armor is a unique skin.

Armor is skin. War is peace.

Ascended armor are BIS gear.

Legendary is better than ascended by having more value and unique stat switching mechanic. More useful qualities = better, straight and simple.

Raids aren’t sustainably rewarding ascended gear.

Straight lying. Shards are currently only way in game to get desirable ascended stuff without heavy RNG or dropping a lot of money to craft. And even more, raids have unique ascended stuff that is unobtainable anywhere else.

Envoy legendary armor is unique to raids.
Legendary armor is a raid reward.

And?

Unique skin rewards can’t be usefully assigned value.

I guess you are living in some other world then.

Having unique raid rewards are good.

Sure. But having them at expense of all others is bad.

Your entire argument can be boiled down to this:

Either make unique raid rewards available to everyone with no effort to gain them trough said raids and/or never ever make raids again.

Izithel.6853:

Your entire argument can be boiled down to this:

Either make unique raid rewards available to everyone with no effort to gain them trough said raids and/or never ever make raids again.

Actually, my point is that a whole gear category should never be considered an unique reward for a single gamemode. Especially if it’s a gamemode for only a tiny minority of players.

Notice how i was not saying anything about other unique skins obtainable from raids. In general, i see no problem in leaving them as they are. It’s the legendary armor (armor, not skin), straight buyable ascended gear, and ascended stat sets that are unobtainable by any means that are a problem.

So no, it’s not about the existence of unique rewards for raids in general. It’s about what these unique rewards currently are.

I don’t understand, what this drama is about.
If you want something, you can get in the raids, then just play them. If you’re not willing to do so, then well, sucks to be you.

If you want something, you have to earn it.

Astralporing.1957:

Izithel.6853:

Your entire argument can be boiled down to this:

Either make unique raid rewards available to everyone with no effort to gain them trough said raids and/or never ever make raids again.

Actually, my point is that a whole gear category should never be considered an unique reward for a single gamemode. Especially if it’s a gamemode for only a tiny minority of players.

Notice how i was not saying anything about other unique skins obtainable from raids. In general, i see no problem in leaving them as they are. It’s the legendary armor (armor, not skin), straight buyable ascended gear, and ascended stat sets that are unobtainable by any means that are a problem.

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

Oh wait…….

And yes, certain stat combinations for accended trinkets being exclusive to raids is pretty bad, on the other hand, some are exclusive to LW S2 achievements so that point is moot really.

Not to mention, due to the cap on magnetite shards it still takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to buy a piece of ascended gear.
Doing your daily gathering and crafting of ascended mats will get you more gear quicker.

Izithel.6853:

Not to mention, due to the cap on magnetite shards it still takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to buy a piece of ascended gear.

It takes about a month to get ascended amulet through default means, which is the only currently existing method comparable to raids. Except you can’t even get weapons, armor, or backpacks that way. You were saying?

Izithel.6853:

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

Currently, no, but what exactly is preventing you from asking for them to be available somewhere else? And if you do ask for them, I definitely won’t be saying to you that no, you can’t have them, because “reasons”. Quite the opposite, i have always supported such initiatives whenever they appeared.

And also, even if the choice currently is not that good, you can choose. If you can’t stand pvp, you can at least try fractals. If you dislike fractals, you can go sPvP. If you dislike Raids, you can… what? Ah, yeah, (to quote the user above) “get in the raids, then just play them. If you’re not willing to do so, then well, sucks to be you.”
A small and unsatisfying choice is still better than no choice at all.

Astralporing.1957:

Currently, no, but what exactly is preventing you from asking for them to be available somewhere else? And if you do ask for them, I definitely won’t be saying to you that no, you can’t have them, because “reasons”. Quite the opposite, i have always supported such initiatives whenever they appeared.

You can ask for it, yes. But it’s unlikely to be come true because…well we know this game/company for too long.

Legendary armor won’t be better until we know something about runes fitting into it. If we cannot save or change runes without rebuying them, the possibility to change the stats will be nonsense.

Astralporing.1957:

And also, even if the choice currently is not that good, you can choose. If you can’t stand pvp, you can at least try fractals. If you dislike fractals, you can go sPvP. If you dislike Raids, you can… what? Ah, yeah, (to quote the user above) “get in the raids, then just play them. If you’re not willing to do so, then well, sucks to be you.”
A small and unsatisfying choice is still better than no choice at all.

The PvP skin is different from the fractal one. There is no optical similarity.

Raids rewards are not even good . I can easily craft 1 ascended part by doing T4 fractals in a week. Meanwhile I need to wait at least 2 weeks to buy glove/shoulder/head/shoes from raid vendor. Heck, I get MUCH more gold just from auto attacking and map hopping AB meta.

Honestly, raids are pretty casual right now. I cleared wing 1 and 2 in 1,5 hours with a PUG few hours ago. You can easily hop in to squad that already 9/10 in LFG if you hate to “organize for 1 hour”. Don’t play special snowflake build , hop into the squad TS , be flexible and you should be able to do raid.

Being pretty new to raids, only 5 LI so far, i have to say that those who really wanna play raids are gonna get into them sooner or later. I started from nothing, never joined a raid guild for teaching runs nor had people on friendlist to pick me up and carry me through it.

People who just complain about raid accesibility and stop there have a completely different mentality than what is required to succesfully clear bosses. Generally, these are the people that sit on the forums and whine about everything while the rest are playing the game.

Vinceman.4572:

Astralporing.1957:

Currently, no, but what exactly is preventing you from asking for them to be available somewhere else? And if you do ask for them, I definitely won’t be saying to you that no, you can’t have them, because “reasons”. Quite the opposite, i have always supported such initiatives whenever they appeared.

You can ask for it, yes. But it’s unlikely to be come true because…well we know this game/company for too long.

If you don’t ask, you won’t be given. And if you don’t ask, you definitely shouldn’t be using that as an argument that others shouldn’t ask as well.

Vinceman.4572:

Astralporing.1957:

And also, even if the choice currently is not that good, you can choose. If you can’t stand pvp, you can at least try fractals. If you dislike fractals, you can go sPvP. If you dislike Raids, you can… what? Ah, yeah, (to quote the user above) “get in the raids, then just play them. If you’re not willing to do so, then well, sucks to be you.”
A small and unsatisfying choice is still better than no choice at all.

The PvP skin is different from the fractal one. There is no optical similarity.

And? I have already mentioned it’s about a gear category, not about specific skin, haven’t i?

Astralporing.1957:

If you don’t ask, you won’t be given. And if you don’t ask, you definitely shouldn’t be using that as an argument that others shouldn’t ask as well.

Definitely, you can ask for it and maybe it’s smart and the probability is there that you’ll get it. But sometimes you can be realistic from the start on and stop the dreaming.

And? I have already mentioned it’s about a gear category, not about specific skin, haven’t i?

But legendary armor is not a real gear category at the moment and we all don’t know if it will be in the future because we all are lacking the information about the runes. If we aren’t able to substitute runes for free, legendary armor will be exactly the same like ascended armor because then stat swapping is useless – asc gear can be changed reasonably priced at this stage of the game.

Astralporing.1957:

Currently, no, but what exactly is preventing you from asking for them to be available somewhere else?

Because I’m not an entitled kitten who thinks all content and their rewards should be available and cater to me and my preferred play-style.
Maybe you should go play some single player RPGs so you can mod in whatever you want instead of complaining that in an MMO some prestigious items are not easily and widely available.

Izithel.6853:

Astralporing.1957:

Currently, no, but what exactly is preventing you from asking for them to be available somewhere else?

Because I’m not an entitled kitten who thinks all content and their rewards should be available and cater to me and my preferred play-style.
Maybe you should go play some single player RPGs so you can mod in whatever you want instead of complaining that in an MMO some prestigious items are not easily and widely available.

So no fun allowed in GW2 if you want to be up to date with equipment?

Torolan.5816:

So no fun allowed in GW2 if you want to be up to date with equipment?

I didn’t know you couldn’t get ascended gear anymore outside of raids?
Nor did anyone tell me you needed the latest of the best gear to enjoy the game?

zoomborg.9462:

Being pretty new to raids, only 5 LI so far, i have to say that those who really wanna play raids are gonna get into them sooner or later. I started from nothing, never joined a raid guild for teaching runs nor had people on friendlist to pick me up and carry me through it.

People who just complain about raid accesibility and stop there have a completely different mentality than what is required to succesfully clear bosses. Generally, these are the people that sit on the forums and whine about everything while the rest are playing the game.

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

Izithel.6853:

Torolan.5816:

So no fun allowed in GW2 if you want to be up to date with equipment?

I didn’t know you couldn’t get ascended gear anymore outside of raids?
Nor did anyone tell me you needed the latest of the best gear to enjoy the game?

Is an armor upgrade an upgrade, despite people deeming it as useful or not?
So if I don´t urgently need it, I should just not worry about it?

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

Why sould HARDER content give you the same reward as easier content?

By this logic the best rewards should be exclusive to PvP, is that what you want?

1. Winning in PvP is not always challenging
2. There is a legendary backpiece
3. There are REAL LIFE CASH PRICES for the top players
4. If PvP rewards were too high the chances of manipulation and abusing would increase. (Ever heard of “I pay you XXg if you let us win”?)

Btw, I agree that the PvP rewards could be increased a bit. I never said that anets reward scaling is perfect. You just have to look at SW to know anet does not always know how to balance rewards.

However raid rewards are somewhat balanced. Some might say it’s even too low.

Please lock this thread, I’m not sure I’ve read one bit of constructive criticism. Indeed, the whole point of this thread is “stop making raids” not “this is how we can do it better.”

I should just keep a copy paste of all the common responses:

On legendary armor: Ascended armor has the same stats as a legendary. So you are not losing anything by not getting it. The stat change is of questionable value. And all game modes have unique skins.

On ascended rewards: I’ve honestly never heard this one, because it is completely bonkers to anyone who has actually raided. It takes weeks to get a single piece. You can get them much faster by crafting — even in a single day if you buy the time gated stuff. And T4 fractals has a much higher drop rate for ascended items.

On rewards generally: All of the rewards are time gated weekly. You can make much more gold in open world pve or by farming fotm 40.

On easy mode: It’s ok to have content that caters to different skin levels. Think raids are too hard? Don’t want to invest the time? Great! You have open world. You have dungeons you have fractals.

It’s very clear from this thread that all easy mode raiders want are the rewards. Despite that all content has unique rewards. Despite that nothing is stopping them from trying right now to beat the raid. Despite that most of the legendary stuff is locked behind some sort of content.

I don’t play wvw. I don’t throw a tantrum when they are given new content or unique rewards.

I just got a precursor in fractals yesterday. One of my party members told me I could make more gold selling the legendary than just the precursor. But I don’t want to map complete, after already doing that two times. So I sold the precursor.

Do what you find fun. Don’t envy others when they get content you like, or some brand new skin.

The OP definitely didn’t create a very productive topic, but the discussion has moved past his list of grievances.

Don’t try to dismiss objections by oversimplifying things. ‘Easy mode’ raiders want to be able to play through the kitten raid at a level they personally find challenging without a hassle, see the story and yes, get some of the goodies. Accept that while you are comfortable with things as they are, lots of people are not, and their views are also valid.

All of the other endgame content is accessible or scaled in some way after all.

Rednik.3809:

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I wonder why people cant stop calling games with raids “WoW clone” or “WoW-like”
GW2 is now WoW-like because WoW introduced raids earlier?
ok…
As far as i know, fishes were one of the first living things that had eyes.
Lets assume you have eyes, too.
Congratulations, i guess you are fish-like now

I am sure you got the idea.

GW2 is far away from being WoW-like.
And tbh i think you just want to provoke with this “wow-like” thing.

Lord Darghaz.2314:

Rednik.3809:

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I wonder why people cant stop calling games with raids “WoW clone” or “WoW-like”
GW2 is now WoW-like because WoW introduced raids earlier?
ok…
As far as i know, fishes were one of the first living things that had eyes.
Lets assume you have eyes, too.
Congratulations, i guess you are fish-like now

I am sure you got the idea.

GW2 is far away from being WoW-like.
And tbh i think you just want to provoke with this “wow-like” thing.

When this game came out, it was an improvement over the typical “wow-like” model in just about every way – scaling zones, scaling based on group size, no trinity, dynamic event system, shared resource nodes, and so on (a lot of things).

When raids were introduced, instead of applying that same level of innovation and creativity, they chose to carbon copy almost every core raiding mechanic used by Blizzard – reintroduced the trinity, no scaling, heavy reliance on enrage mechanics, etc. I’m not saying they should have scaled or gone non-trinity. I’m saying that the Anet team didn’t create GW2 raids – they just lifted the exact same model used in that game in the (most likely) attempt to up numbers by dragging raiders from that game into GW2.

I just wish they had put the same creative effort into the core raiding system that they obviously did in every other core element of the game.

Jahroots.6791:

The OP definitely didn’t create a very productive topic, but the discussion has moved past his list of grievances.

Don’t try to dismiss objections by oversimplifying things. ‘Easy mode’ raiders want to be able to play through the kitten raid at a level they personally find challenging without a hassle, see the story and yes, get some of the goodies. Accept that while you are comfortable with things as they are, lots of people are not, and their views are also valid.

All of the other endgame content is accessible or scaled in some way after all.

Why does all content need to cater to all skill levels? The reverse is certainly not true — for example, world bosses usually do not require anything more than pressing 1.

And I’m ok with that. Because there’s other medium and hard tier content.

All content has unique rewards. There’s plenty of easy and medium tier content. Why do easy-moders have to complete these exact encounters?

The only answer I’ve seen is loot. There’s nothing stopping them from trying the bosses right now. And most of the lore can be seen from a completed raid instance.

Blaeys.3102:

Lord Darghaz.2314:

Rednik.3809:

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I wonder why people cant stop calling games with raids “WoW clone” or “WoW-like”
GW2 is now WoW-like because WoW introduced raids earlier?
ok…
As far as i know, fishes were one of the first living things that had eyes.
Lets assume you have eyes, too.
Congratulations, i guess you are fish-like now

I am sure you got the idea.

GW2 is far away from being WoW-like.
And tbh i think you just want to provoke with this “wow-like” thing.

When this game came out, it was an improvement over the typical “wow-like” model in just about every way – scaling zones, scaling based on group size, no trinity, dynamic event system, shared resource nodes, and so on (a lot of things).

When raids were introduced, instead of applying that same level of innovation and creativity, they chose to carbon copy almost every core raiding mechanic used by Blizzard – reintroduced the trinity, no scaling, heavy reliance on enrage mechanics, etc. I’m not saying they should have scaled or gone non-trinity. I’m saying that the Anet team didn’t create GW2 raids – they just lifted the exact same model used in that game in the (most likely) attempt to up numbers by dragging raiders from that game into GW2.

I just wish they had put the same creative effort into the core raiding system that they obviously did in every other core element of the game.

What constructively would you change? I see nothing but criticism in this post.

Absurdo.8309:

Blaeys.3102:

Lord Darghaz.2314:

Rednik.3809:

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I wonder why people cant stop calling games with raids “WoW clone” or “WoW-like”
GW2 is now WoW-like because WoW introduced raids earlier?
ok…
As far as i know, fishes were one of the first living things that had eyes.
Lets assume you have eyes, too.
Congratulations, i guess you are fish-like now

I am sure you got the idea.

GW2 is far away from being WoW-like.
And tbh i think you just want to provoke with this “wow-like” thing.

When this game came out, it was an improvement over the typical “wow-like” model in just about every way – scaling zones, scaling based on group size, no trinity, dynamic event system, shared resource nodes, and so on (a lot of things).

When raids were introduced, instead of applying that same level of innovation and creativity, they chose to carbon copy almost every core raiding mechanic used by Blizzard – reintroduced the trinity, no scaling, heavy reliance on enrage mechanics, etc. I’m not saying they should have scaled or gone non-trinity. I’m saying that the Anet team didn’t create GW2 raids – they just lifted the exact same model used in that game in the (most likely) attempt to up numbers by dragging raiders from that game into GW2.

I just wish they had put the same creative effort into the core raiding system that they obviously did in every other core element of the game.

What constructively would you change? I see nothing but criticism in this post.

There is an entire CDI full of ideas – all of which I’m sure would pale in comparison to what the Anet team – if they put the same creativity into raiding they put into the game’s launch – would come up with.

And to your earlier point about difficulty levels and the example of a world boss – While I think raids should have a more casual mode, I also think open world bosses should have a more hardcore mode/rewards – accessed through the same mechanic guilds currently use to access guild challenges (triggered instances – possibly using the guild event item scribes make).

A wider range of difficulties – across all game modes – is something we should all want.

Blaeys.3102:

Absurdo.8309:

Blaeys.3102:

Lord Darghaz.2314:

Rednik.3809:

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I wonder why people cant stop calling games with raids “WoW clone” or “WoW-like”
GW2 is now WoW-like because WoW introduced raids earlier?
ok…
As far as i know, fishes were one of the first living things that had eyes.
Lets assume you have eyes, too.
Congratulations, i guess you are fish-like now

I am sure you got the idea.

GW2 is far away from being WoW-like.
And tbh i think you just want to provoke with this “wow-like” thing.

When this game came out, it was an improvement over the typical “wow-like” model in just about every way – scaling zones, scaling based on group size, no trinity, dynamic event system, shared resource nodes, and so on (a lot of things).

When raids were introduced, instead of applying that same level of innovation and creativity, they chose to carbon copy almost every core raiding mechanic used by Blizzard – reintroduced the trinity, no scaling, heavy reliance on enrage mechanics, etc. I’m not saying they should have scaled or gone non-trinity. I’m saying that the Anet team didn’t create GW2 raids – they just lifted the exact same model used in that game in the (most likely) attempt to up numbers by dragging raiders from that game into GW2.

I just wish they had put the same creative effort into the core raiding system that they obviously did in every other core element of the game.

What constructively would you change? I see nothing but criticism in this post.

There is an entire CDI full of ideas – all of which I’m sure would pale in comparison to what the Anet team – if they put the same creativity into raiding they put into the game’s launch – would come up with.

And to your earlier point about difficulty levels and the example of a world boss – While I think raids should have a more casual mode, I also think open world bosses should have a more hardcore mode/rewards – accessed through the same mechanic guilds currently use to access guild challenges (triggered instances – possibly using the guild event item scribes make).

A wider range of difficulties – across all game modes – is something we should all want.

I hate to get into a forum spat, but I’m not going to read through an entire CDI — especially when you’re the one claiming raids could be better, and when most raiders think anet did a good job. I’ll be happy with your elevator summary.

And the thing is, there are harder world bosses. Like triple trouble. And there is easier instanced pve content, like dungeons and fractals. Even within raids, there are easier bosses, like trio and vg.

And that’s how it should be. It adds variety for players of all skill levels.

Absurdo.8309:

Why does all content need to cater to all skill levels? The reverse is certainly not true — for example, world bosses usually do not require anything more than pressing 1.

And I’m ok with that. Because there’s other medium and hard tier content.

All content has unique rewards. There’s plenty of easy and medium tier content. Why do easy-moders have to complete these exact encounters?

The only answer I’ve seen is loot. There’s nothing stopping them from trying the bosses right now. And most of the lore can be seen from a completed raid instance.

It’s doesn’t have to, nobody has to do play this game at all. But it is a good thing to include people so that they don’t feel bored or completely left out.

We have had very little instanced content added since launch. A lot of people prefer this stuff over map-wide zergs. I still remember watching the twitch stream before HoT launched, and all the cries of ‘Dungeons???’ that flooded the chat after Colin finished his presentation. The newest fractal is what, two years old? And even those are just a rehash of old LS1 content.

We got raids, and while these are pretty cool…they are also a massive pain in the kitten for the average player to get into, especially compared to the previous tier of challenging content (T4 fracts). A lot of people are just not going to be able to hack it, one way or another, and that’s incredibly frustrating for them.

It’s more than just the loot. Everyone’s got different reasons for playing. Most people just want to raid because it’s a thing you can do in the game, full stop. Walking into a completed instance to see the lore just does not compare to beating it yourself at all. That’s like telling someone who wants to taste a meal that they can lick the plate after you’re done eating. Insulting af. Lol.

Bear in mind, difficulty scaling doesn’t need to affect the current raid difficulty. It would just offer a separate, less intense experience for a wider audience. Having hotjoin, EotM and T1 fractals hasn’t impacted on ranked, proper WvW or high level fractals at all – I’m yet to see an objectively sound reason why we can’t have easier raids added to the list of endgame activities.

Here is one EXTREMELY simplistic example of how they could easily open this to more people without taking the experience or reward away from current raiders -

Allow groups of more than 10 people to enter the raid – without scaling the boss, but disable achievements/titles/magnetite shard rewards/unique drops while doing so.

That way, a group of 15 (or 20 or 25) could go in and burn down the boss, experience the fight (in a manner of speaking), experience the lore, etc. Keep a small – once a week – gold and champion loot box reward (comparable to world bosses) to ensure the content is worth repeating.

Problem solved for everyone. Developers don’t need to put extra effort into additional modes. Raiders still get their challenge/unique rewards/sense of accomplishment. Lorehounds still get the experience of actually EXPERIENCING the story. General PVE players still get something new when raids come out. Win-Win (win-win).

Of course, I say this not knowing how difficult it would be to program, but it seems like it would be very similar to how they allow larger groups into guild challenges now (with this model, raid bosses could even become future guild challenges ). Regardless, I think it would be worth the (hopefully minimal) effort.

I know someone will have issue with this, but I really think it would work – and it would definitely make the forums a little friendlier .

I really dont have a probelm with raids. GW2 has always been a game that tries to cater to many kinds of players. HoT advertised that it would also add challenging PvE content. It does that and its perfectly fine. Raids are well done and the poeple who do them enjoy them.

What i don’t like about them is that that there are quite a number of ascended stats trikets that can noly be gotten through raids. Even stats that have been in the game for a long time. I mean raids have unique weapon skins, legendary armor, minis and infusions. I’d say there is enough without having excusive access to lots of stats. I’d understand sumething like ascended vipers trinkets but for stuff like zealots which has nothing to do with hot content i really dont see the reasoning with them being raid only.

Izithel.6853:

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.

Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.

STIHL.2489:

Izithel.6853:

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.

Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.

Agreed, 100%. More options are always better.

STIHL.2489:

Izithel.6853:

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.

Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.

Seems like you’re ignoring all the counter-points in this discussion:

- Legendary armor has the same stats as ascended, which is achievable in all game modes
- All the new legendaries are tied to particular game modes. The old legendaries were mostly pve, but you could buy them off the tp.
- Not all skins and legendary items have parity across all game modes
- If all you want is the legendary armor, it makes more sense to put an alternate method in another game mode. Doesn’t sound like you like raids to begin with.
- Most raiders are ok with legendary armor in different game modes.
- Having legendary armor in easy mode devalues the prestige of the skin. For all the new legendaries, you knew the player had to be good or dedicated enough to acquire it

Ad hominem does no favors for your argument.

They’ve never said legendary armor was available exclusively to raids, this is just how they’re first introducing it. I would expect it to show up in other game modes down the road, and I’m all for that. More unique legendary skins to encourage playing different content is always a good thing.

Absurdo.8309:

STIHL.2489:

Izithel.6853:

Can I have my Legendary backpiece then without having to bother doing Fractals/PVP?

The Difference between me, and every Stuck up Elitist on the Forum, is I believe you should, and I sincerely hope that Anet has plans in the future to make Legendary Back Items for all the other game modes.

Why other people can’t believe the same, seems that they miss this is a game. But by all means, shove that stick all the way up, and pretend that it’s pride.

Seems like you’re ignoring all the counter-points in this discussion:

- Legendary armor has the same stats as ascended, which is achievable in all game modes
- All the new legendaries are tied to particular game modes. The old legendaries were mostly pve, but you could buy them off the tp.
- Not all skins and legendary items have parity across all game modes
- If all you want is the legendary armor, it makes more sense to put an alternate method in another game mode. Doesn’t sound like you like raids to begin with.
- Most raiders are ok with legendary armor in different game modes.
- Having legendary armor in easy mode devalues the prestige of the skin. For all the new legendaries, you knew the player had to be good or dedicated enough to acquire it

Ad hominem does no favors for your argument.

Since You have not been reading my post, how is it that you think I have not addressed the issue of Legendary Armor?

Oh wait.. Yes I did..

Here is it for you to read.

STIHL.2489:

Neox.3497:

How are legendary weapons and legendary backpieces any different? You have to do open world completion, you have to do a certain dungeon, you have to do PvP, you have to do high level fractals.

You can’t get legendary weapons nor a legendary backpiece with raiding. Why is armor suddenly different?

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, but they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

You’re thinking too much about the Legendary Armor. While that will be an issue, no doubt, that will only affect the people what enjoy Legendary Journeys, and don’t enjoy the Raid. Yes, that group will become alienated, and is it’s own subset, and there is a good chance that they also will be driven from the game. An Unfortunate loss, perhaps, but they are not the group I am talking about.

My main issue it’s the ability to Buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with Raid Tokens, (AKA: Magnetite Shard), thus bypassing all RNG and Crafting Grind.

That is what makes Raids the ‘End Game’ content, because you can’t buy Ascended Weapons/Armor with any other currency.

Now if they put in a vendor where players could buy Ascended Armor/Weapons from Fractals (Which would make sense) and change it so that The Glorious and Triumphant Armor from the WvW/sPvP Reward Tracks was Ascended as opposed to Exotic, that would equalize the game quite a bit.

But right now, Raids give players the ability to simply buy Ascended Armor/Weapon, for less gold then it costs to make an Insignia.

I actually support the idea of being able to buy ascended boxes via maybe pristine fractal relics or putting them into the wvw/pvp tracks (assuming ofc that they balance the time value of them all).

A quick analysis you may find of interest however:

Farming gold to craft ascended weapons:

- AB multilooting is consistently 40-50g for approximately 1 hour of playtime assuming you are the commander (generally 50mins-1hr if not).
- Gathering runs at current rates can yield 25g per hour. Fractal 40 farm can yield similar rates.
– An ascended 1h weapon is approximately 104g on average (with a low standard deviation) taking into account the best potential gold value of laurels for recipes etc. An ascended 2h weapon is on average approximately 120g.

Therefore under AB methods it would take you 2.08 – 2.6 hours to accrue enough gold to craft a 1h ascended weapon and 2.4 – 3 hours for a 2h weapon.

Under gathering methods it would take 4.16 hours for a one handed weapon and 4.8 hours for a 2h weapon.

Getting ascended weapons via raids:

Let’s say it takes 3 hours to cap out on shards, a reasonable estimate for an experienced and skilled group including organisational time and a short break. For this you get 100 shards. It costs 250 shards + 15g for a single handed weapon, 500 + 30g for a 2h.

So to obtain a one handed weapon it would take you 7.5 hours to get enough shards and around 0.3 of an hour worth of AB, a total of about 7.8 hours.

For a 2h weapon it’s even worse, it would take 15 hours to get the shards and 0.6 hours of AB, a total of 15.6 hours.

As this simple analysis demonstrates, the quickest (and easiest in this case) of obtaining ascended gear is through farming gold and for weapons at least, holds true as long as you are making 14g/hr + which is easily doable via many many sub-optimal methods.

Of course there’s going to be someone who tries to pick holes with the 3 hours for a raid and say it can be done in 2 but even then as long as you are farming gold as efficiently as you would be farming those raids you will obtain it quicker via farming gold.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

- AB multilooting is consistently 40-50g for approximately 1 hour of playtime assuming you are the commander (generally 50mins-1hr if not).

No way. Outside Flipping on the TP, there is simply no way to make this kind of gold in an hour.

In fact, I don’t know nor have I heard of any method that can continually reward 14g/h of play.

Please provide detailed info, or links.

AB multi loot can open 70-90 chests which is approximately 40-50g or more if you get good drop. My friend did 100 chest with SSD and revs+executioner axe.

Then during the AB down time you can go chop wood in malchor’s leap for an easy 5-10 gold or more depending how many alts u got.

People tend to exaggerate a lot on these forums, lol. 40g/hr isn’t typical at all. It’s possible with great drops and ideal circumstances (switching maps effortlessly and with no real downtime during peak hours), but the average player will probably make around 20-25g/hr, assuming they’re not bored after two runs through Tarir.

oh look its this topic again…. can we just mega merge this with the other locked threads as yet again nothing has changed with this discussion.

Jahroots.6791:

People tend to exaggerate a lot on these forums, lol. 40g/hr isn’t typical at all. It’s possible with great drops and ideal circumstances (switching maps effortlessly and with no real downtime during peak hours), but the average player will probably make around 20-25g/hr, assuming they’re not bored after two runs through Tarir.

Even if you only do 20-25g/h you will be tremendously faster to obtain asc gears on the contrary to raids. It’s not only the collecting of shards by playing you also have to wait 3 weeks to achieve at least 250 shards for a minor ascended armor piece because there is this weekly cap of 100 shards.
In addition you just have to play three fractals a day and you will gain a huge chunk of gold + a bigger chance to drop an asc box than to one week of raids.

So, please don’t use the argument of receiving asc gear – and as a whole raid rewards – from raids as an advantage compared to other game modes. The rewards in raids are abysmal when looking at all other PvE content.

Rednik.3809:

zoomborg.9462:

Being pretty new to raids, only 5 LI so far, i have to say that those who really wanna play raids are gonna get into them sooner or later. I started from nothing, never joined a raid guild for teaching runs nor had people on friendlist to pick me up and carry me through it.

People who just complain about raid accesibility and stop there have a completely different mentality than what is required to succesfully clear bosses. Generally, these are the people that sit on the forums and whine about everything while the rest are playing the game.

I’m playing this game more than majority of raiders. I don’t want to play raids because I had more than enough of them in WoW and this game promised to be not wow-like.
So what exactly wrong with asking for not wow-like endgame and wow-like endgame rewards model? Like, you know, fractals, pvp, wvw, all that stuff that was working as endgame pretty great for everyone, before anet decided to drop everything and pump out content and shinies for raids only?

I can’t remember getting better equipment in raids than in Open World. Did I miss something?

Fractal backpack and PvP backpack are not shiny enough? Weapon and armor skins from HoT open world don’t exist (which are way more than the raid skins)? Golden fractal weapons vanished?
And I can get all of the above only via raids?

Raid is HoT content, released in pieces.