Guild Wars 2

@EcoRi: Re run the whole thing, but this time with all 5 party members in PVT. Now no one is getting carried!!! Problem solved.

Zorby.8236:

Wethospu.6437:

Baconplease.1657:

if you ran DPS you could of cut those times down by 20% respectively

I didn’t know DPS increased your party’s movement speed.

Not only! I’ve heard it increases…uhm…“performance” by 20% as well!

That’s because they kill everything in the dungeons. Not surprised!

the title says zero dps but its a lie I clearly see the thief doing damage in the video

Iris Ng.9845:

@EcoRi: Re run the whole thing, but this time with all 5 party members in PVT. Now no one is getting carried!!! Problem solved.

i would actually rather see him run the same exact tactics with suboptimal pug like settings, than to see 4 man dungeons.

I can understand how people, not familiar with the dungeon forum, can misunderstand a post by EcoRI; his posting style is kind of an acquired taste, I think^^

It’s funny that you posted about thief support. The other day a guildie, who is just getting into dungeons, was surprised when I said thief is a good support character for pugs.
Glad to see you prove that point in a more efficient way^^

When I play with guildies in fractals, some of them tend to take their wvw roaming builds and what not in there. I never tell them to change their gear, but I do ask them for a specific trait/skill/weapon sometimes. The “berserker = easy win” attitude that some players have, shows a lack of insight, I think.

Thief can do support. Who knew.

This is a nice video but to me it confirms what I always thought : downscaling sucks.

All the threads about Meta mix two things : speed and DPS. While they often go together you showed in this video that speed comes mainly from the runs between bosses. Not only this but you showed (sorry I’m going to devaluate your skills) that this is not something hard to achieve as long as you know which skills to use AND as long as people around you know how to react. But how many thieves have taken their “running support” build to only see pugs escape SR or stand far from AOE stealth ?

Arguably the running support can be done by other classes like guard or even PU mesmer if RNG is favorable… but yeah guard and thieves are kings for that.

Nevertheless I see a lot of bosses melting really fast in this video and I think this comes from downscaling since you did that in the popular low level dungeons. As an example, the first boss in TA doesn’t have time to pop adds. Ok one could think if you bring enough dps then you should escape boss mechanics… but somehow this is a bit silly that when you gear as “easy mode” you have to face boss mechanics that make the encounter harder while being in “hard mode” makes it so people don’t have to fight those mechanics. In that context you can’t really talk about skilled play for the berserker gear since you have nothing to show your skill… I mean rotation is not so hard to do.

Now I don’t have a doubt on skills of many people around this subforum as I know that they can be as efficient in EVERY dungeons. However I think the bitterness from other players towards meta and berserker gear comes from the fact that many not-skillfull (no idea about builds but than “I have a DF ready”, never cooked or bought food, think guard can perma aegis ..) players are able to melt the 4 first dungeons and think they are good enough to treat other as baddies…

Just to be sure to finish on a positive note for your video : I liked your video a lot and it brought me to want to remove the dust of my thief, and your toon is cute

@Iris I don’t think people will believe that all 5 will be running Nomads since it is hard to proof that.
@Nyx do you mean bringing random classes?
@Ranael, although I do think downscaling is a problem, the main message that clever use of mechanics/strategy is still true even for level 80 dungeons to some extend. Granted DPS is more significant in lvl80, it is not the be all and end all. Running is still the most important. If you look at the arah p1 record, the mesmer is used mainly for running purposes, not DPS. Here is a lvl80 coe p3 trio http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6431555. It is still faster than most 5man berserker only pugs because of the strategies used.

Compared the damage, won’t it be apparently different?

EcoRI.9273:

It is still faster than most 5man berserker only pugs because of the strategies used.

So is this post just to tell pug players you are much better player?

This is sincerely what I get from you.

laokoko.7403:

EcoRI.9273:

It is still faster than most 5man berserker only pugs because of the strategies used.

So is this post just to tell pug players you are much better player?

This is sincerely what I get from you.

More that players as a whole should stop being so caught up with gear when it’s tactics and good use of utility/support skills that makes runs go smooth and quick. If people focused on utilizing those to their fullest instead we’d probably have faster PUG runs too

OP, why are you even comparing yourself to pug. You guys are a coordinate group who run dungeon often together everyday. Of course you guys are better.

I’m a strictly pug person. Often I meet people who never even run the dungeon before. Very often some inexperienced died while they are skipping mobs. And the group are forced to wait for them.

I ran a cof pug, and we spend 5 minutes running the boulderzer, even though I run it successfully every time. So in the end I’m forced to switch to a necro/mesmer to continue.

If you are a well coordinate group of people and want to prove a point to “other speed run groups” mobility matters. That’s fine with me. But please stop comparing yourself to pug, since that’s a bit disheartening.

laokoko.7403:

OP, why are you even comparing yourself to pug. You guys are a coordinate group who run dungeon often together everyday. Of course you guys are better.

I’m a strictly pug person. Often I meet people who never even run the dungeon before. Very often some inexperienced died while they are skipping mobs. And the group are forced to wait for them.

I ran a cof pug, and we spend 5 minutes running the boulderzer, even though I run it successfully every time. So in the end I’m forced to switch to a necro/mesmer to continue.

If you are a well coordinate group of people and want to prove a point to “other speed run groups” mobility matters. That’s fine with me. But please stop comparing yourself to pug, since that’s a bit disheartening.

More that players as a whole should stop being so caught up with gear when it’s tactics and good use of utility/support skills that makes runs go smooth and quick. If people focused on utilizing those to their fullest instead we’d probably have faster PUG runs too

Well, the usual “lvl 80 exp zerk” PUG run without any wipe is quite fast compared to a coordinated speedrun. If you have the addition “meta group” you will achieve clearing times that aren’t very much longer than the record ones for the lower level dungeons.
And that’s why many players using the key words in the lfg above.
1st: “lvl 80”
You make sure that your mates would possibly have all traits, abilities and the stuff needed to prevent being a possible bottle neck.
2nd: “exp”
You are stating the fact that you want to have people that “know their shxt” (in short words)
3rd: “zerk”
Explains itself, people “knowing their shxt” don’t need any other gear than zerker gear.

So, after almost 3 years of dungeon existence in this game I understand people who dont want to have the lvl 36 class that is running directly into every corner pulling the last dust of the instance with white gear.
Most of the players running dungeons regularly wouldn’t mind a “0 dps support thief” or a “full cleric guard” as long as the group is working and you aren’t missing any damage by the rest of the team composition to be fast enough.
Persisting on “zerker” gear in the lfg is just to minimize the chance of getting players that aren’t efficient for a decent run.

Come now. We all know this horse has long been beaten to death.
OP is troll.
Ya’all goin cray cray.

its actually a problem that OP thinks “speed running” = “not tryharding”, since he could obviously make the run faster by not wearing nomads or whatever

oh well, cant care about this thread

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

OP, why are you even comparing yourself to pug. You guys are a coordinate group who run dungeon often together everyday. Of course you guys are better.

I’m a strictly pug person. Often I meet people who never even run the dungeon before. Very often some inexperienced died while they are skipping mobs. And the group are forced to wait for them.

I ran a cof pug, and we spend 5 minutes running the boulderzer, even though I run it successfully every time. So in the end I’m forced to switch to a necro/mesmer to continue.

If you are a well coordinate group of people and want to prove a point to “other speed run groups” mobility matters. That’s fine with me. But please stop comparing yourself to pug, since that’s a bit disheartening.

More that players as a whole should stop being so caught up with gear when it’s tactics and good use of utility/support skills that makes runs go smooth and quick. If people focused on utilizing those to their fullest instead we’d probably have faster PUG runs too

I see what you did there, and I like it

EcoRI.9273:

More that players as a whole should stop being so caught up with gear when it’s tactics and good use of utility/support skills that makes runs go smooth and quick. If people focused on utilizing those to their fullest instead we’d probably have faster PUG runs too

If that’s the point you were trying to make, I totally agree with you. I just don’t think that your experience (video) proves that point, for the reason I mentioned before.

I hadn’t pugged in quite a long time but since now we get no new content, most of my guildies are bored with the game (including me) so I’ve been pugging a lot lately. I always list my group as “friendly group” or “all welcome” and still most of the times the things melt and even when they don’t, I get really smooth runs. It’s fun.
I’m close to 15k AP now and have been running dungeons with guildies since maybe 2k, so I never had problems with LFG, however looking at the listings there I can see how hard it can be for anyone under 5k AP or not running Zerker to join a group.

The thing is, there is no objective measure for in game skill if you have never seen a person play, so when going for a rushed run people resort to the next best thing which is AP, because people assume there is a correlation between time played and skill gained – and I don’t think it is a ludicrous assumption, and Zerker gear because it provides the most damage, so even if the player doesn’t know what he is doing, at least he can contribute with some damage – then again, because you can’t know the player if you never played with him.
That being told, I can also understand why some people prefer having those requirements on their parties.

What I still don’t get is why is it that everyone can use the LFG tool and list their parties (even if alone) and all I see are 5K AP Zerk parties and people complain for lack of other groups. Why not just set up your group? I don’t know if I’m just lucky, but I’ve been having fun times and smooth runs even with people who never did the dungeon or are below 1k AP.

There must be a reason for that. My guess is that it has become somewhat of a standard (and I say that because I’ve been in a party with a 2k AP who didn’t know TA Up and still he listed the group has “metazerk only”) or people who don’t know the dungeons very well are too self-conscious about it to start a group.