Guild Wars 2

Awesome, it bugged out while I was typing. /shrug
Anyway, lots of selfish, narrow-minded PHIWism, so whatever.

Do you know why the dungeon community is tiny?

Because open world mindless zerging is already so rewarding. People hear about dungeons being nice income so they come “try” it halfheartedly. Turns out you actually need to dodge, read things, and not just spam 1 anymore.

Unlearning bad habits becomes too much work, so they simply blame the dungeon community for being too difficult and unwelcoming and go back to mindless zerg farming.

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

no, i never said to end all party filtering at all.
I agree that developer attention hasnt been all good, but even though i dont like everything they did in fractured, i did enjoy having 3-4 new fractals

Im not suggesting they destroy the speed running community, im suggesting they need to encourage more than just the speed run community. Ideal situation, speedrun community basically does as it does now, but more people play dungeons, with varying goals. As well, a better starter experience Dungeon community grows, speedrun community also grows.

side note, kitten your hatred is strong.

If you are suggesting ‘’they need to encourage more than just the speed run community’’. That mean that you consider that right now or in the past they encouraged just the speed run community?

Do you have example of that, because I think that just a cute little phrase with no meaning, but if you can prove me wrong I would be glad.

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

phys.7689:

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

Nerf all the mindless farming to oblivion, then maybe raise the rewards for story mode, and you’ll see people far more willing to learn dungeons. The game has encouraged them to be lazy players, and lazy learners, and there will be no place for them in dungeons until they realize they need to shape up.

Dave.2536:

Do you know why the dungeon community is tiny?

Because open world mindless zerging is already so rewarding. People hear about dungeons being nice income so they come “try” it halfheartedly. Turns out you actually need to dodge, read things, and not just spam 1 anymore.

Unlearning bad habits becomes too much work, so they simply blame the dungeon community for being too difficult and unwelcoming and go back to mindless zerg farming.

i agree that the game rewards mindless play too heavily.

phys.7689:

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

In that sense I agree. But that mean mostly improving the LFG. Not much more can be done. New player need to get right away in the best group for them and don’t wander off in speed run and zerker territory.

The other part is yes, balancing reward vs difficulty vs time. I like doing the SW farming from time to time, but it’s stupid how much it’s rewarding without any effort. While on the other end, you have fractal 50 that is one of the harder PvE content, but give so little reward. Fractal 50 should be more rewarding than dungeon, while SW should be less rewarding than dungeon in my opinion. Especially since dungeon and fractal reward is a one time thing per day, while there is no limit in SW. Talking about gold per hour here.

Over 2 years into the game and fractals 50 is still less rewarding than some dungeon paths – don’t even get me started with zerg farming. This is unacceptable.

Dave.2536:

Do you know why the dungeon community is tiny?

Because open world mindless zerging is already so rewarding. People hear about dungeons being nice income so they come “try” it halfheartedly. Turns out you actually need to dodge, read things, and not just spam 1 anymore.

Unlearning bad habits becomes too much work, so they simply blame the dungeon community for being too difficult and unwelcoming and go back to mindless zerg farming.

Completely agree.

The order of quality of rewards in game goes:
Open world farming > dungeons > fractals

The order of difficulty in game, however, is:
Fractals > dungeons > open world farming

This inverse relationship makes no sense whatsoever and results in a small, neglected and bitter dungeon community. Which is ironic because anet’s stated how they dislike “fracturing” their community…

Lorgus.6148:

Dave.2536:

Do you know why the dungeon community is tiny?

Because open world mindless zerging is already so rewarding. People hear about dungeons being nice income so they come “try” it halfheartedly. Turns out you actually need to dodge, read things, and not just spam 1 anymore.

Unlearning bad habits becomes too much work, so they simply blame the dungeon community for being too difficult and unwelcoming and go back to mindless zerg farming.

Completely agree.

The order of quality of rewards in game goes:
Open world farming > dungeons > fractals

The order of difficulty in game, however, is:
Fractals > dungeons > open world farming

This inverse relationship makes no sense whatsoever and results in a small, neglected and bitter dungeon community. Which is ironic because anet’s stated how they dislike “fracturing” their community…

Slight nitpick:

tp trading>open world farming>dungeons>fractals

Why do anything challenging in this game when you can play virtual tradesman and buy your way to anything.

GrimmR.3541:

OP, I hope you do not run your “bunker mesmer“ build in dungeons. No offense!

I was running a 2/4/0/5/3 mesmer phantasm build with reflect uptime for some of the fights and restorative mantras for fights that reflects are not required. I was in full zerker gear with s/f+x.

Dave.2536:

phys.7689:

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

Nerf all the mindless farming to oblivion, then maybe raise the rewards for story mode, and you’ll see people far more willing to learn dungeons. The game has encouraged them to be lazy players, and lazy learners, and there will be no place for them in dungeons until they realize they need to shape up.

Kind of an odd thing to say, if stacking and mashing “1” is pretty much what you will do half the time in dungeons.
Ever wiped on Fyonna? Yeah, me neither. There isn’t to say, that there aren’t more crunchy fights in between, but finding groups for these paths (like CoE p3 or all of HotW) demands alot more patience, which pretty much nullifies the aspect of speedclearing for profit/gold per hour.

Even in dungeons…no, ESPECIALLY in dungeons, ppl also tend to go for the easiest way, because it’s more often than not the fastest.
At any daytime, i have no problem finding an AC full run group, for example.

On the other side, mashing “1” or AA/AFK at some more demanding open world PvE content, like tequatl gets you killed pretty fast.
But sadly, such events are rare.

There pretty much is only tequatl or jungle wurm…

wauwi.9162:

Dave.2536:

phys.7689:

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

Nerf all the mindless farming to oblivion, then maybe raise the rewards for story mode, and you’ll see people far more willing to learn dungeons. The game has encouraged them to be lazy players, and lazy learners, and there will be no place for them in dungeons until they realize they need to shape up.

Kind of an odd thing to say, if stacking and mashing “1” is pretty much what you will do half the time in dungeons.
Ever wiped on Fyonna? Yeah, me neither. There isn’t to say, that there aren’t more crunchy fights in between, but finding groups for these paths (like CoE p3 or all of HotW) demands alot more patience, which pretty much nullifies the aspect of speedclearing for profit/gold per hour.

Even in dungeons…no, ESPECIALLY in dungeons, ppl also tend to go for the easiest way, because it’s more often than not the fastest.
At any daytime, i have no problem finding an AC full run group, for example.

On the other side, mashing “1” or AA/AFK at some more demanding open world PvE content, like tequatl gets you killed pretty fast.
But sadly, such events are rare.

There pretty much is only tequatl or jungle wurm…

“stacking and mashing 1 for dungeons”

Ok this is the part where I know that you do not know what you are talking about.

Here is a fun facts, all the “stacking” that pugs do are the opposite of effecient, in fact its the other way around. The "easy " and “lazy” way are probably the slowest and is not a speedrun at all.

Another fun fact is you can afk press on 1 teq, I have done it many times on my ranger, just camp lb from a distance and mash 1 np, people won’t notice a difference since there are like 100+ people there.

The thing about stacking is… people saw few speed runs or world record on youtube and think that this can be applied to random pug.
The reason why they don’t stuck on alpha in coe for example is because they freaking drop it in 5 second. Just to lure alpha to corner would take u 5 second, and they have 0 reason to do that.
This logic cant be applied to a pug. The other day I get some tryhard wannabe that don’t wanna waste 5 second on luring alpha. But in our pug team there is staff necro and condi ranger. So when people start dying, instead of pressing f to revive them I have to run to where they dodged and revive which loses time. But if we were dodging in corner I can just rev without walking around.
What people here seem to not understand is why those speed clear teams don’t lure some of the bosses. They have insane dps, they swaping sigils for encounters, they are always on high cookings, they run meta builds, they know perfectly what to do etc…
If u need 5 sec to drop alpha, obviously why would u waste 5 sec to lure it.
But this all is not case in pugs. Pug don’t even have ascendants or exotics. I know guy who run dungeons with green back piece, not even rare. Encounters like alpha can last 30sec up to a minute depend how bad luck u get. So yea u better lure that alpha in corner when u puging, or don’t pug at all.

What angers me sometimes is when people use some really stupid weapons. Like staff necro which is not so uncommon. I don’t understand how can someone be level 80, and not understand what are their weapons used for. I mean staff is obviously an aoe condition control weapon. Its autoattack is abysmal, most of skill just do useless things in dungeons like chill, poison etc… and most importantly don’t use it on one single target… Now those are real problems to me, and not some silly wasting of 5 sec to lure something.

Duncanmix.5238:

The thing about stacking is… people saw few speed runs or world record on youtube and think that this can be applied to random pug.
The reason why they don’t stuck on alpha in coe for example is because they freaking drop it in 5 second. Just to lure alpha to corner would take u 5 second, and they have 0 reason to do that.
This logic cant be applied to a pug. The other day I get some tryhard wannabe that don’t wanna waste 5 second on luring alpha. But in our pug team there is staff necro and condi ranger. So when people start dying, instead of pressing f to revive them I have to run to where they dodged and revive which loses time. But if we were dodging in corner I can just rev without walking around.
What people here seem to not understand is why those speed clear teams don’t lure some of the bosses. They have insane dps, they swaping sigils for encounters, they are always on high cookings, they run meta builds, they know perfectly what to do etc…
If u need 5 sec to drop alpha, obviously why would u waste 5 sec to lure it.
But this all is not case in pugs. Pug don’t even have ascendants or exotics. I know guy who run dungeons with green back piece, not even rare. Encounters like alpha can last 30sec up to a minute depend how bad luck u get. So yea u better lure that alpha in corner when u puging, or don’t pug at all.

What angers me sometimes is when people use some really stupid weapons. Like staff necro which is not so uncommon. I don’t understand how can someone be level 80, and not understand what are their weapons used for. I mean staff is obviously an aoe condition control weapon. Its autoattack is abysmal, most of skill just do useless things in dungeons like chill, poison etc… and most importantly don’t use it on one single target… Now those are real problems to me, and not some silly wasting of 5 sec to lure something.

But you are wrong if you think the reason speedrun don’t stack is because boss burn down quickly. Take AC for instance, the final boss can be killed in an average pug on open field for every single path, I have done it many times with pugs yet some of them insist on stacking it. COE alpha can be done in the same manner, dodge appropriately and dps the boss, in fact I would say that stacking for most of the bosses are usually detrimental to the team since the aoe attacks will always be concentrated on all 5 people. The healing from the elemental does not matter as well if you keep the boss poisoned or you cleave appropriately.

I never stack on ac, its obviously always situational. But alpha is one case where stacking in pug is recommended from my experience.
You cant expect pug to dodge something like alpha cause he attacks too many times. Yea sometimes your pugs will be good have good dps, but many times they have those silly builds that i mentioned. Then corner will be your friend. All I’m saying is, be prepared when u’re puging for anything and sometimes that corner stack can be time saver.

Duncanmix.5238:

I never stack on ac, its obviously always situational. But alpha is one case where stacking in pug is recommended from my experience.
You cant expect pug to dodge something like alpha cause he attacks too many times. Yea sometimes your pugs will be good have good dps, but many times they have those silly builds that i mentioned. Then corner will be your friend. All I’m saying is, be prepared when u’re puging for anything and sometimes that corner stack can be time saver.

The thing is if your pug is getting slaughtered on the open field against alpha, chances are they will get destroyed in the stack as well. Alpha doesn’t automatically do less attack when in a corner.

Yea but I can rev them easy in corner, and they are not like headless chicken there. Not to mention 4 people rev instantly.
In open field one guy dodge wrong, another pug run to rev but panic. Then he drop dead. Now suddenly you’re 3 dpsing but one guy in crystal. Fight getting longer and longer and wasting of time etc… You’re just assuming pug wont die, and you require them to dodge properly. Those are unrealistic wishes many times. Just run with your team and don’t pug if u expect this.

wauwi.9162:

Dave.2536:

phys.7689:

I think you are interpreting more deeply than neccessary, basically they will have to make it easier for some people to get into the dungeon facet of the game. They may have to create special systems, or filters or whatever for that purpose, but if it increases dungeon participation and satisfaction without reducing the current community, or alienating them, its worthwhile, in my opinion.

Nerf all the mindless farming to oblivion, then maybe raise the rewards for story mode, and you’ll see people far more willing to learn dungeons. The game has encouraged them to be lazy players, and lazy learners, and there will be no place for them in dungeons until they realize they need to shape up.

Kind of an odd thing to say, if stacking and mashing “1” is pretty much what you will do half the time in dungeons.
Ever wiped on Fyonna? Yeah, me neither. There isn’t to say, that there aren’t more crunchy fights in between, but finding groups for these paths (like CoE p3 or all of HotW) demands alot more patience, which pretty much nullifies the aspect of speedclearing for profit/gold per hour.

Even in dungeons…no, ESPECIALLY in dungeons, ppl also tend to go for the easiest way, because it’s more often than not the fastest.
At any daytime, i have no problem finding an AC full run group, for example.

On the other side, mashing “1” or AA/AFK at some more demanding open world PvE content, like tequatl gets you killed pretty fast.
But sadly, such events are rare.

There pretty much is only tequatl or jungle wurm…

problem is, yeah that stuff may be easy
BUT open world is even easier.
Not that i am pro stacking or anything

I suggested it before, but i think they should give bonuses to dungeons based on what is completed rarely, let it change every 2 hours. Also bonus thats altered based on average completion time.

Lifestealer.4910:

But you are wrong if you think the reason speedrun don’t stack is because boss burn down quickly. Take AC for instance, the final boss can be killed in an average pug on open field for every single path, I have done it many times with pugs yet some of them insist on stacking it. COE alpha can be done in the same manner, dodge appropriately and dps the boss, in fact I would say that stacking for most of the bosses are usually detrimental to the team since the aoe attacks will always be concentrated on all 5 people. The healing from the elemental does not matter as well if you keep the boss poisoned or you cleave appropriately.

Alpha is kind of a bad example of stacking being detrimental, because it actually helps. Some of his AoEs have minimum range, which you then don’t have to worry about and with everyone’s cleave, his crystal prison is trivial if everone’s sticking close enough to each other to be within their weapon’s cleave range.

You also took my previous statement out of context and prematurely assumed, i meant all bossfight’s in every dungeon/path.
Please don’t do that, thank you.

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

Zerker is fastest and most efficient way to play, you can avoid nearly all the damage in the game and survive with zerker. There’s absolutely no reason to use any other gear set in dungeons, get used to it.

Over 2 years into the game and fractals 50 is still less rewarding than some dungeon paths – don’t even get me started with zerg farming. This is unacceptable.

Yeah it’s CRAZY how unrewarding fractals are, I don’t get what Anet is thinking.

wauwi.9162:

Lifestealer.4910:

But you are wrong if you think the reason speedrun don’t stack is because boss burn down quickly. Take AC for instance, the final boss can be killed in an average pug on open field for every single path, I have done it many times with pugs yet some of them insist on stacking it. COE alpha can be done in the same manner, dodge appropriately and dps the boss, in fact I would say that stacking for most of the bosses are usually detrimental to the team since the aoe attacks will always be concentrated on all 5 people. The healing from the elemental does not matter as well if you keep the boss poisoned or you cleave appropriately.

Alpha is kind of a bad example of stacking being detrimental, because it actually helps. Some of his AoEs have minimum range, which you then don’t have to worry about and with everyone’s cleave, his crystal prison is trivial if everone’s sticking close enough to each other to be within their weapon’s cleave range.

You also took my previous statement out of context and prematurely assumed, i meant all bossfight’s in every dungeon/path.
Please don’t do that, thank you.

Yea but you made it sound like thats what people do mostly in dungeons. If i can recall there is very few occasions where stacking is actually a good strategies, and most of them are used to deal with ads rather than the boss.

Lifestealer.4910:

Yea but you made it sound like thats what people do mostly in dungeons. If i can recall there is very few occasions where stacking is actually a good strategies, and most of them are used to deal with ads rather than the boss.

Well, this is a thread about the zerker speedrun in PUGland.
In PUGland, that’s what people do. Alot.

I remember, when i started arah a long time ago, people wanted me to stack on crusher.
You can imagine, how that turned out.

Stacking is generally the best strategy for spread-out trash mobs, that you can’t skip. There’s always some corner/pillar or whatever, that breaks the line of sight nearby trash and if you aggro all and stack around a corner, they’ll eventually stack up as well.
So, what’s faster: Dealing with each elite one at a time or cleave down all at once?

wauwi.9162:

Lifestealer.4910:

Yea but you made it sound like thats what people do mostly in dungeons. If i can recall there is very few occasions where stacking is actually a good strategies, and most of them are used to deal with ads rather than the boss.

Well, this is a thread about the zerker speedrun in PUGland.
In PUGland, that’s what people do. Alot.

I remember, when i started arah a long time ago, people wanted me to stack on crusher.
You can imagine, how that turned out.

Stacking is generally the best strategy for spread-out trash mobs, that you can’t skip. There’s always some corner/pillar or whatever, that breaks the line of sight nearby trash and if you aggro all and stack around a corner, they’ll eventually stack up as well.
So, what’s faster: Dealing with each elite one at a time or cleave down all at once?

There are ways to pull the mobs together without corner but you are right in the sense that we can’t really expect the pugs guardians or mesmer to pull mobs together when we need them to.

My point however, is that there are not many situations where it is good to stack even in pugs. Yes stacking for elites is fine but alot of bosses like crusher for instance don’t need to be stacked at all. I would guess about 5-20% of the time where corner stacking is used in a dungeon path.

wauwi.9162:

Well, this is a thread about the zerker speedrun in PUGland.
In PUGland, that’s what people do. Alot.

I remember, when i started arah a long time ago, people wanted me to stack on crusher.
You can imagine, how that turned out.

Stacking is generally the best strategy for spread-out trash mobs, that you can’t skip. There’s always some corner/pillar or whatever, that breaks the line of sight nearby trash and if you aggro all and stack around a corner, they’ll eventually stack up as well.
So, what’s faster: Dealing with each elite one at a time or cleave down all at once?

The point isn’t that corner stacking is never a good strategy and most ppl in this discussion are ppl that used to advocate corner stacking back when FGS was a thing.

It’s just that pug continue to stack in most fight just because old habit die hard and that most of the time, corner stacking isn’t a good idea. That’s doesn’t mean that corner stacking shouldn’t be use ever. It just mean that it’s a bit frustrating when ppl corner without thinking.

The issue is that this community is very welcoming to anyone who genuinely wants to be a part of it. Really, take a look back through the threads on this subforum. This is one of the most cynical but helpful communities in the game. Anyone who has come here with a genuine desire to better themselves or learn has walked away with solid input from good players.

You can’t even say that the people here exclude anyone because it is only the players that frequent this subforum that publish guides, run teaching guilds, and host community runs for new players.

It certainly isn’t that 5 Warrior CoF buffoon who came in here to make a fool of himself before tucking tail and running. No, it’s people just like that that come in and spit in the face of this community who get exactly what they deserve.

Just look at it objectively. This is a community that gets very little attention from the devs. It’s a tight knit group of people that I will grant has grown very sarcastic and cynical. This can be intimidating but look beyond this as the actual help they provide.

Look at this new posts every week of some moron coming to to make some outrageous claims or complain. These fools come here bringing wild accusations and all but calling the people here monsters and terrible people. These are the people that are not welcome.

tl;dr – Come here with a serious question? You will get some of the best community support in the game. Come here with baseless accusations and name calling? Eat kitten and leave.