Guild Wars 2

Torolan.5816:

The ones that are are real pains in the behind though and should be banned from everything involving other people until they come around.

>people disagree with me, ban them!

this is basically all i got from this man

I find it funny that people make a big deal about the PvE Content in this game, when every game review site, lists the PvE Content of GW2 as Super Causal Carebear stuff, with the only real challenging content being PvP orientated.

Sarrs.4831:

Torolan.5816:

The ones that are are real pains in the behind though and should be banned from everything involving other people until they come around.

>people disagree with me, ban them!

this is basically all i got from this man

Lol, sorry that I wrote that the largest majority of raiders are not toxic. Won´t happen again.

If there is only the slightest critic about raids or raiders in a post, you guys go all ballistic. I have to dissapoint you though, I still won´t sing a praise for it.

STIHL.2489:

I find it funny that people make a big deal about the PvE Content in this game, when every game review site, lists the PvE Content of GW2 as Super Causal Carebear stuff, with the only real challenging content being PvP orientated.

Source: “game review sites” lolol

The only problem I’m having with the community is the amount of “kill exp required” groups with Matt. I got a really good hold of the boss in my training runs I did before, but I can’t find any squads who can help me to finish the job. Not asking to get carried, I could grind the boss for 4 hours more just to get the kill but those groups are nowhere to be found anymore

Obviously it’s understandable that people want super exp people for the runs to get it done quickly, but it’s really frustrating since I don’t find myself to be a noob for the boss either

Huttunen.8309:

The only problem I’m having with the community is the amount of “kill exp required” groups with Matt. I got a really good hold of the boss in my training runs I did before, but I can’t find any squads who can help me to finish the job. Not asking to get carried, I could grind the boss for 4 hours more just to get the kill but those groups are nowhere to be found anymore

Obviously it’s understandable that people want super exp people for the runs to get it done quickly, but it’s really frustrating since I don’t find myself to be a noob for the boss either

Well tbh Matthias is the last boss most players start to practice one and if most organized guild or group already killed it, they are not pugging. It will take a bit more time before the pug population start to kill it on a regular basis.

Thaddeus.4891:

Huttunen.8309:

The only problem I’m having with the community is the amount of “kill exp required” groups with Matt. I got a really good hold of the boss in my training runs I did before, but I can’t find any squads who can help me to finish the job. Not asking to get carried, I could grind the boss for 4 hours more just to get the kill but those groups are nowhere to be found anymore

Obviously it’s understandable that people want super exp people for the runs to get it done quickly, but it’s really frustrating since I don’t find myself to be a noob for the boss either

Well tbh Matthias is the last boss most players start to practice one and if most organized guild or group already killed it, they are not pugging. It will take a bit more time before the pug population start to kill it on a regular basis.

I’ve pugged Matthias. It has a low success rate, but it is possible.

Thaddeus.4891:

Huttunen.8309:

The only problem I’m having with the community is the amount of “kill exp required” groups with Matt. I got a really good hold of the boss in my training runs I did before, but I can’t find any squads who can help me to finish the job. Not asking to get carried, I could grind the boss for 4 hours more just to get the kill but those groups are nowhere to be found anymore

Obviously it’s understandable that people want super exp people for the runs to get it done quickly, but it’s really frustrating since I don’t find myself to be a noob for the boss either

Well tbh Matthias is the last boss most players start to practice one and if most organized guild or group already killed it, they are not pugging. It will take a bit more time before the pug population start to kill it on a regular basis.

It’s sad but true. I used to have a group of like minded people with a mix of my guildies and their friends, we cleared the first wing with no problems weekly and killed sloth and the trio in the first week after SP release. But for some reason 80% of the group lost motivation for raiding before we even tried Matt well enough. Now it’s just me, stuck with pugs after taking a few week break from raiding too

I saw during the last two days, while look for a group to do Sloth, two announces " 90+ Li only, eternal, gearcheck, killproof – NO FRENCH PLAYER ", " Only eternal +70Li, BE VERY EXP OR EASY KICK FOR NOOBS ", "Exp or kick, no missplays ". No wonder why people think the raiding community is toxic, and I honnestly think it is partialy true, a LOT of raiders are actually very toxic. I think it’s Anet’s role to moderate announces like this in the lfg, and to try to reduce the toxicity, when a player gets reported for insults, he must be looked at and things must be done for this kind of toxic players.

Edit : at the moment I’m posting, a group announces " eternal only, fail once = kick " xD

xrayane.1842:

I saw during the last two days, while look for a group to do Sloth, two announces " 90+ Li only, eternal, gearcheck, killproof – NO FRENCH PLAYER ", " Only eternal +70Li, BE VERY EXP OR EASY KICK FOR NOOBS ", "Exp or kick, no missplays ". No wonder why people think the raiding community is toxic, and I honnestly think it is partialy true, a LOT of raiders are actually very toxic. I think it’s Anet’s role to moderate announces like this in the lfg, and to try to reduce the toxicity, when a player gets reported for insults, he must be looked at and things must be done for this kind of toxic players.

How is that toxic though? They didn’t insult anyone =/
Like, say you have an RP LFG and you put “not RP-ing = kick”, would that be toxic too?

xrayane.1842:

I saw during the last two days, while look for a group to do Sloth, two announces " 90+ Li only, eternal, gearcheck, killproof – NO FRENCH PLAYER ", " Only eternal +70Li, BE VERY EXP OR EASY KICK FOR NOOBS ", "Exp or kick, no missplays ". No wonder why people think the raiding community is toxic, and I honnestly think it is partialy true, a LOT of raiders are actually very toxic. I think it’s Anet’s role to moderate announces like this in the lfg, and to try to reduce the toxicity, when a player gets reported for insults, he must be looked at and things must be done for this kind of toxic players.

Edit : at the moment I’m posting, a group announces " eternal only, fail once = kick " xD

Yes, these are jokes and no serious requests. You forgot the “+99LI” because it was “+99 LI, eternal only, fail once = kick”.

Vinceman.4572:

xrayane.1842:

I saw during the last two days, while look for a group to do Sloth, two announces " 90+ Li only, eternal, gearcheck, killproof – NO FRENCH PLAYER ", " Only eternal +70Li, BE VERY EXP OR EASY KICK FOR NOOBS ", "Exp or kick, no missplays ". No wonder why people think the raiding community is toxic, and I honnestly think it is partialy true, a LOT of raiders are actually very toxic. I think it’s Anet’s role to moderate announces like this in the lfg, and to try to reduce the toxicity, when a player gets reported for insults, he must be looked at and things must be done for this kind of toxic players.

Edit : at the moment I’m posting, a group announces " eternal only, fail once = kick " xD

Yes, these are jokes and no serious requests. You forgot the “+99LI” because it was “+99 LI, eternal only, fail once = kick”.

Huh, why are you so sure they’re jokes? The hardcore-est of player probably already have that number of LI (seriously asking here)

You know…some of us said this kitten would happen if raiding ever came into the game. We expressed this concern. Even cited the asinine requirements not just from GW2 dungeons (because we already saw issues with this), but all the way back to issues we saw in GW1 and other games too.

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

Guess what… raids are awesome and fun and you aren’t doing them because of the self-imposed boundaries and limitations you put onto yourself.

NikeEU.7690:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

Guess what… raids are awesome and fun and you aren’t doing them because of the self-imposed boundaries and limitations you put onto yourself.

Oh I’m sure they are fun. With the right people.

However, as this thread highlights, a lot of people are also the problem. This thread highlights that because of those people, other people that might otherwise like to do them, can’t or won’t do them, which has nothing to do with “self imposed” boundaries or limitations and everything to do with too many kittenholes.

We had the exact same issues with dungeons.
And then with fractals.

But is there anything stopping them from making their own groups? I believe there isn’t, and the PuG community isn’t a good example of the actual raiding community pugs are just that random players grouping together while the raiding community are in established guilds and teams.

No, there’s nothing stopping them, and we see people do it.

And then wait….
and wait….
and wait….
and wait….

So much fun right?
“if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs”…“it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun”

Its UW all over again. Yippy.

LegACy.1296:

Vinceman.4572:

xrayane.1842:

I saw during the last two days, while look for a group to do Sloth, two announces " 90+ Li only, eternal, gearcheck, killproof – NO FRENCH PLAYER ", " Only eternal +70Li, BE VERY EXP OR EASY KICK FOR NOOBS ", "Exp or kick, no missplays ". No wonder why people think the raiding community is toxic, and I honnestly think it is partialy true, a LOT of raiders are actually very toxic. I think it’s Anet’s role to moderate announces like this in the lfg, and to try to reduce the toxicity, when a player gets reported for insults, he must be looked at and things must be done for this kind of toxic players.

Edit : at the moment I’m posting, a group announces " eternal only, fail once = kick " xD

Yes, these are jokes and no serious requests. You forgot the “+99LI” because it was “+99 LI, eternal only, fail once = kick”.

Huh, why are you so sure they’re jokes? The hardcore-est of player probably already have that number of LI (seriously asking here)

Because it’s the same player having this lfg at the moment:
“VG Only 30k+ap+250 LI+ All Legendaries + All ascended gear + exp + 10k gold + take one dmg = kick”

These are lfgs from desperate players and those who are jealous. ^^

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, there’s nothing stopping them, and we see people do it.

And then wait….
and wait….
and wait….
and wait….

So much fun right?
“if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs”…“it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun”

Its UW all over again. Yippy.

What’s stopping them from joining raiding guilds or the introductory raid guilds? There are quite a few looking for players to teach on the forums, this sounds more like laziness on the players part or wanting to be carried, there are also pugs that don’t ask for requirements other than proper gear and spec.

There are a lot of different options available people tend to only point out the negative selections. Just saying I don’t raid all that much yet when I came back to the game after months of HoT being released I was able to raid with pugs no problem then I joined a guild that casually raids and also provides training raids for others.

You are judging a community based on PuGs which doesn’t make up the majority of the raiding community.

I join random pugs all the time both on the LFR side and the RLF side, and it works really well. Just advertise for the group style you’re looking for and you’ll find it. Admittedly, this is harder later in the week than earlier, but that’s to be expected.

Why on earth is the idea that you grab 9 other new players and try and learn the raid together such a mind blowing concept? Absolutely no-one is stopping you from doing this. Why are you expecting 9 seasoned players to give you a free ride just because they are experienced? They had to work hard to do it to begin with.

The ONLY limitation of a raid is that you need the expansion, absolutely nothing else is stopping you.

inb4 I dont do training runs. I hold training runs once a week.

I reckon that if all players crying about the hardships in pugs actually got off the complaint threads and united their forces, they’d manage – I mean, one would think there’s enough of them to form a raid group.

It’s… there are more than 10? Euh, I don’t know, I lost count.

NikeEU.7690:

STIHL.2489:

I find it funny that people make a big deal about the PvE Content in this game, when every game review site, lists the PvE Content of GW2 as Super Causal Carebear stuff, with the only real challenging content being PvP orientated.

Source: “game review sites” lolol

Not sure where you go for reviews of games, but, I use, TenTonHammer & MMORPG, if you don’t use them, I highly recommend them as great sources for both up coming MMO’s, as well reviews of existing MMO’s if you are in the market sort to speak.

Edit Added:

Also, If you are feeling lucky, and want to trudge though countless blogs, forums and reddit posts you could just Google Most Casual MMO and you would find GW2, topping the charts most places.

deSade.9437:

I reckon that if all players crying about the hardships in pugs actually got off the complaint threads and united their forces, they’d manage – I mean, one would think there’s enough of them to form a raid group.

It’s… there are more than 10? Euh, I don’t know, I lost count.

Urgh I have a possible answer but I would probably get an infraction for that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You know…some of us said this kitten would happen if raiding ever came into the game. We expressed this concern. Even cited the asinine requirements not just from GW2 dungeons (because we already saw issues with this), but all the way back to issues we saw in GW1 and other games too.

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

There is a good chance you are 100% correct, that you did warn them, and that simply means that you care about the game, and the community, however, one of things I learned from the many years of playing MMO’s, is that it’s the company’s game, not ours, and as much as we might try to steer the boat, it’s their game, and that means, it’s theirs to screw up.

One of the most glaring things about HoT, was this move to make a massive re-direction from how the original game was built and designed, the zones, the mobs, everything was a planned direction change, it was not a mistake on their part to do what they did.. and as you said, you warned them, so, it could become a mistake, because it might have very negative results, but, it was the direction they wanted to go in.

Which brings me to something else I learned. When a MMO goes in a direction that you don’t want to follow, the best thing you can do is.. Don’t Follow.

It’s a game, if you are not having fun, you don’t look forward to logging in and playing the game, the worst thing you can do, is keep playing.

I understand that urge to at least say something, it means you care, it means the game matters to you, and that you feel that it is worth fighting for it, but, its not your game, it’s not my game, and it’s not the “raiders on this forums” game, it’s Arenanet’s game.

I do not mean this in any way to be rude, in fact, I mean this is in the most polite and positive way I can say it, never play a game past the post of being fun, If you are unhappy with the way they are going, then maybe it’s time to find some place else where you will be happier and have more fun.

You won’t change anything arguing with the people on this forum, they won’t listen, and all you will do is frustrate yourself.

Ramoth.9064:

Why on earth is the idea that you grab 9 other new players and try and learn the raid together such a mind blowing concept? Absolutely no-one is stopping you from doing this. Why are you expecting 9 seasoned players to give you a free ride just because they are experienced? They had to work hard to do it to begin with.

The ONLY limitation of a raid is that you need the expansion, absolutely nothing else is stopping you.

inb4 I dont do training runs. I hold training runs once a week.

Its difficult for these people because they expect everything handed to them everytime they log in.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, there’s nothing stopping them, and we see people do it.

And then wait….
and wait….
and wait….
and wait….

So much fun right?
“if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs”…“it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun”

Its UW all over again. Yippy.

What’s stopping them from joining raiding guilds or the introductory raid guilds? There are quite a few looking for players to teach on the forums, this sounds more like laziness on the players part or wanting to be carried, there are also pugs that don’t ask for requirements other than proper gear and spec.

There are a lot of different options available people tend to only point out the negative selections. Just saying I don’t raid all that much yet when I came back to the game after months of HoT being released I was able to raid with pugs no problem then I joined a guild that casually raids and also provides training raids for others.

You are judging a community based on PuGs which doesn’t make up the majority of the raiding community.

I’m not saying there aren’t options. Never have. I will point out that just because there are options, doesn’t mean they necessarily work either. Beyond that, that’s sort of beyond the scope of the topic of the thread, which is more the attitudes of the community at large as opposed to accessibility. Granted, attitudes do affect accessibility for a lot of people, but accessibility is a larger topic.

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

No, I am not basing my opinions solely on “pugs” per se, considering I have interacted with more than a few of the “non casual” raiders. (Your definition, and mine may vary regarding casual vs non casual. I simply consider anyone that does the raids regularly with some efficiency to be “non casual.” They aren’t necessary hard core min-max do it as fast as humanly possibly type players) Some are decent people, more than “a few” are not. I work with what my I see, hear, read, and experience. I do try to step back and take a broader view than just he said, she said. I do not raid personally, though its not for lack of interest or attempts. My schedule just doesn’t mesh with anyone it seems.

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You know…some of us said this kitten would happen if raiding ever came into the game. We expressed this concern. Even cited the asinine requirements not just from GW2 dungeons (because we already saw issues with this), but all the way back to issues we saw in GW1 and other games too.

We got shouted down. Guess what… we told you so.

There is a good chance you are 100% correct, that you did warn them, and that simply means that you care about the game, and the community, however, one of things I learned from the many years of playing MMO’s, is that it’s the company’s game, not ours, and as much as we might try to steer the boat, it’s their game, and that means, it’s theirs to screw up.

One of the most glaring things about HoT, was this move to make a massive re-direction from how the original game was built and designed, the zones, the mobs, everything was a planned direction change, it was not a mistake on their part to do what they did.. and as you said, you warned them, so, it could become a mistake, because it might have very negative results, but, it was the direction they wanted to go in.

Which brings me to something else I learned. When a MMO goes in a direction that you don’t want to follow, the best thing you can do is.. Don’t Follow.

It’s a game, if you are not having fun, you don’t look forward to logging in and playing the game, the worst thing you can do, is keep playing.

I understand that urge to at least say something, it means you care, it means the game matters to you, and that you feel that it is worth fighting for it, but, its not your game, it’s not my game, and it’s not the “raiders on this forums” game, it’s Arenanet’s game.

I do not mean this in any way to be rude, in fact, I mean this is in the most polite and positive way I can say it, never play a game past the post of being fun, If you are unhappy with the way they are going, then maybe it’s time to find some place else where you will be happier and have more fun.

You won’t change anything arguing with the people on this forum, they won’t listen, and all you will do is frustrate yourself.

I’m well aware it Anet’s game. It’s something I’ve pointed out many times myself. That said, I think we influence it more than a lot of people think. I wholeheartedly believe we got kitten like fractals, ascended, and raids all due to how loudly people whined for those things.

Just because I don’t necessarily agree with some of the choices made, or with particular implementation methods, doesn’t mean I don’t still enjoy the game. If I get to the point where I don’t, then I’ll stop playing. Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are. Its frustrating. Its sad. Makes me fight that much harder to pound some sense into people.

I suppose it’s a good thing that I enjoy arguing with people. Otherwise, yes, it would just frustrate me.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

True. That term is apply and generalize wrongly most of the time. I know you don’t really seem to use that term, but the same is true for toxic. People on both side are using lazy and toxic to demonize the other side. But in reality, you have guys that worked hard to get where they are in term of experience and success in raid and they want to play with like minded, experienced players so their run go smoothly. Some of them are happy to help others in practice run, others aren’t, which is ok too.

And on the other side you have player that have difficulty going into raid. It can be for a lot of reason. They can lack the gear to get accepted, they can know nobody doing raid, they can have less experience in dungeon/fractal, they can like to play a build or a profession not that popular, they could have miss the initial training train when raid appeared, they can have difficult work schedule, etc. They are not lazy, they just don’t know what to do to raid at this point and nothing seem to work.

Of course some are lazy and other are toxic, but I doudt they represent the majority in either side. But whatever happen in the game, this division will alway exist. There is a reason why, it was like that in dungeon, then in fractal and now in raid. People want to succeed and they will do whatever they need to do to achieve it. The reason why it doesn’t really happen anymore in dungeon and it never really happen in low level fractal is because they are so easy that a lot of people just don’t care about people not meeting standard. When I dungeon, I usually 3 or 4 man it, and when I pug I often get a 600 AP new players, not level 80 and I don’t care, we carry him all the way because it doesn’t even make a difference, which wasn’t really the case before. But I won’t gonna do that In high level fractal or in raid.

You can’t police the community attitude because most of what people complain are done with good reason. It just clash when both attitude meet.

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

STIHL.2489:

but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Well, that’s obviously not true. Have you ever played PvP? Way worse.

Ever farmed on maps like Cursed Shore or Silverwastes? Map chat way worse from time to time. Running dungeons and fractals wasn’t very toxic before HoT. Some got the impression because this content is small scale, you act together with 5 people and you can insult personally while you can only blame a big group of players in open world content. But they weren’t right in blaming the specific dungeon community.
People were not willing to accept speed clear groups and were excluded with their (stupid) cleric heal guards e.g. reacting with “the dungeon community is toxic” instead of just open an own lfg with “everybody welcome”. We all know why they didn’t open that, it was because they knew it would take forever to even kill the spider in AC with that group. So they joined groups without meeting the requirements and blew the whole thing up, every day, every week, every month. But yeah, the dungeon community was still the toxic part in these stories.

The raid groups I joined weren’t harassing at all. Not a single group I’ve joined. And let’s be really honest: Most of the toxic behaviour results from people not reading lfgs or they read them but want to be carried and try to sneak into. And such moves are annoying and an insult itself for players that want their lfg to be accepted. All they get is a disrespectful behaviour of a human being which is, for raids, on purpose.
Yeah, on purpose, because no newer players accidentally rush into a raid lfg.
I am totally against toxic replies towards such disrespectful players but I can understand it because it says the following: I don’t care your lfg and your wishes. I also want to play that content and you will accept my presence whatever you may have determined. In my eyes such characteristic traits have to be punished, not with an insult of course, but they should be punished!

Vinceman.4572:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

Who said anything about asking for anything on a silver kittening platter?

You ask why people can’t read guides and such, lets flip that around. Why can’t people be bothered to help with something as simple as a question in a game that’s supposedly supposed to be “mulitplayer” with a great community? This isn’t a solo RPG where the only available resources are guide books, wikis, and youtube. If people have to resort to those methods and only those methods, why the hell should they bother with a MMO?

Why do you assume they haven’t watched a vid, or read a guide, or checked the wiki? People can do those things and still have questions. Twitch is an excellent example of this. People watch, and learn, and still have questions.

I’ve helped bad players, I know how frustrating it can be. And yet, they can also turn into some of the best people to play with because those people (that want to learn, and know they’re bad) can have some of the best attitudes. Its the ones that suck that don’t want to learn that tend to be the biggest headache.

Sird.4536:

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

Many of the people, myself included, that haven’t been able to get into it, or haven’t been able to do it, aren’t asking to make it easier. (We are asking for people to be a bit less kittenhole-ish) You say it’s not hard to find a guild or make friends, and that may be true for you; however, it’s not for all people. Don’t generalize, and don’t judge. You don’t know what they’ve been through or where they are in life.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vinceman.4572:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

Who said anything about asking for anything on a silver kittening platter?

You ask why people can’t read guides and such, lets flip that around. Why can’t people be bothered to help with something as simple as a question in a game that’s supposedly supposed to be “mulitplayer” with a great community? This isn’t a solo RPG where the only available resources are guide books, wikis, and youtube. If people have to resort to those methods and only those methods, why the hell should they bother with a MMO?

Why do you assume they haven’t watched a vid, or read a guide, or checked the wiki? People can do those things and still have questions. Twitch is an excellent example of this. People watch, and learn, and still have questions.

I’ve helped bad players, I know how frustrating it can be. And yet, they can also turn into some of the best people to play with because those people (that want to learn, and know they’re bad) can have some of the best attitudes. Its the ones that suck that don’t want to learn that tend to be the biggest headache.

The same reason why the casuals are complaining about not raiding, Time. If I have time to explain something I will but if I need to move on to my next goal I will either ignore the question in say chat (I don’t ignore those that pm me) or just reply with “wiki it”.

There is not enough information in game to let players know that you can type /wiki(item name or whatever).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

Many of the people, myself included, that haven’t been able to get into it, or haven’t been able to do it, aren’t asking to make it easier. (We are asking for people to be a bit less kittenhole-ish) You say it’s not hard to find a guild or make friends, and that may be true for you; however, it’s not for all people. Don’t generalize, and don’t judge. You don’t know what they’ve been through or where they are in life.

I only mentioned both sides of the argument. Retread what I wrote and you will see if never generalised or whatever you are accusing me of. Though since you generalised and called me out let me reply in kind.

The people that tend to be ‘kittenhole-ish’ are pug groups. Guild members don’t behave like that and if they do then you are in the wrong guild. I get a feeling that everyone that comes here to complain about elitism is coming on here after a bad pug experience.

If you can’t find a guild or group to raid with because of real life then it isn’t anyone’s fault, you play when you can but those people should not come here to demand content because of it.

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vinceman.4572:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

Who said anything about asking for anything on a silver kittening platter?

You ask why people can’t read guides and such, lets flip that around. Why can’t people be bothered to help with something as simple as a question in a game that’s supposedly supposed to be “mulitplayer” with a great community? This isn’t a solo RPG where the only available resources are guide books, wikis, and youtube. If people have to resort to those methods and only those methods, why the hell should they bother with a MMO?

Why do you assume they haven’t watched a vid, or read a guide, or checked the wiki? People can do those things and still have questions. Twitch is an excellent example of this. People watch, and learn, and still have questions.

I’ve helped bad players, I know how frustrating it can be. And yet, they can also turn into some of the best people to play with because those people (that want to learn, and know they’re bad) can have some of the best attitudes. Its the ones that suck that don’t want to learn that tend to be the biggest headache.

The same reason why the casuals are complaining about not raiding, Time. If I have time to explain something I will but if I need to move on to my next goal I will either ignore the question in say chat (I don’t ignore those that pm me) or just reply with “wiki it”.

There is not enough information in game to let players know that you can type /wiki(item name or whatever).

If you don’t have time, then move on. There’s no need to be a kitten about it. Trust me, I understand the “time” thing. The problem arises when you have 100+ people in a map and people start being kittens to the question asker and spend as much time harassing the person for asking the question as it would have taken to explain the kitten answer. Or, its a simple question, and ppl kitten “wiki it” and could have given the person the answer they sought in the same amount of time it took them to stick that in there.

I think we sort of got off the specific line of thought pertaining to raids here though. New / first time raiders are going to have questions, especially once they get into the instance. Regardless of watching vids, or reading guides, etc. I would think it would be expected. Yes, those players should not be trying to join “exp only” teams in the LFG tool (which is another topic altogether), but in a ‘normal’ group, I would think that questions would be reasonable. Again, just like dungeons.

Yes, it would be nice if the /wiki command was more common knowledge, but that still isn’t the be all, end all solution.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vinceman.4572:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

Who said anything about asking for anything on a silver kittening platter?

You ask why people can’t read guides and such, lets flip that around. Why can’t people be bothered to help with something as simple as a question in a game that’s supposedly supposed to be “mulitplayer” with a great community? This isn’t a solo RPG where the only available resources are guide books, wikis, and youtube. If people have to resort to those methods and only those methods, why the hell should they bother with a MMO?

Why do you assume they haven’t watched a vid, or read a guide, or checked the wiki? People can do those things and still have questions. Twitch is an excellent example of this. People watch, and learn, and still have questions.

I’ve helped bad players, I know how frustrating it can be. And yet, they can also turn into some of the best people to play with because those people (that want to learn, and know they’re bad) can have some of the best attitudes. Its the ones that suck that don’t want to learn that tend to be the biggest headache.

The same reason why the casuals are complaining about not raiding, Time. If I have time to explain something I will but if I need to move on to my next goal I will either ignore the question in say chat (I don’t ignore those that pm me) or just reply with “wiki it”.

There is not enough information in game to let players know that you can type /wiki(item name or whatever).

If you don’t have time, then move on. There’s no need to be a kitten about it. Trust me, I understand the “time” thing. The problem arises when you have 100+ people in a map and people start being kittens to the question asker and spend as much time harassing the person for asking the question as it would have taken to explain the kitten answer. Or, its a simple question, and ppl kitten “wiki it” and could have given the person the answer they sought in the same amount of time it took them to stick that in there.

I think we sort of got off the specific line of thought pertaining to raids here though. New / first time raiders are going to have questions, especially once they get into the instance. Regardless of watching vids, or reading guides, etc. I would think it would be expected. Yes, those players should not be trying to join “exp only” teams in the LFG tool (which is another topic altogether), but in a ‘normal’ group, I would think that questions would be reasonable. Again, just like dungeons.

Yes, it would be nice if the /wiki command was more common knowledge, but that still isn’t the be all, end all solution.

How is that me being a kitten? Now I am going to be a kitten and say can you read?

The GW2 community can be toxic but I have never seen a person that asks a question getting flamed for doing so. At most people will say “wiki it” or just ignore the question.

As far as asking for help in raids.
If you are new to raids and join a ‘exp’ LFG post then expect to get treated harshly. If you are really interested in getting into raids then the best place is to find a guild. If your time is limited due to real life then reading a guide is the only way to get the knowledge you need. Either way you can still join a guild.

I have said this before LFG groups do not represent the raiding community and people that come on here complaining about said community are doing so because of the treatment they get from these LFGs. Guilds do not behave the same.

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

Many of the people, myself included, that haven’t been able to get into it, or haven’t been able to do it, aren’t asking to make it easier. (We are asking for people to be a bit less kittenhole-ish) You say it’s not hard to find a guild or make friends, and that may be true for you; however, it’s not for all people. Don’t generalize, and don’t judge. You don’t know what they’ve been through or where they are in life.

I only mentioned both sides of the argument. Retread what I wrote and you will see if never generalised or whatever you are accusing me of. Though since you generalised and called me out let me reply in kind.

The people that tend to be ‘kittenhole-ish’ are pug groups. Guild members don’t behave like that and if they do then you are in the wrong guild. I get a feeling that everyone that comes here to complain about elitism is coming on here after a bad pug experience.

If you can’t find a guild or group to raid with because of real life then it isn’t anyone’s fault, you play when you can but those people should not come here to demand content because of it.

The point you missed is that even the people that aren’t whining “make it easier” are getting the flack too. We still get people being kittens, and accuse us of being lazy, etc etc. Thus, the don’t generalize and don’t judge. It wasn’t necessarily directly explicitly “at” you. I use “you” in a general sense a lot, and I probably should qualify it.

And bullkitten, guild members don’t behave that way. I agree, if they do, you may be in the wrong guild. Or maybe, it’s the kitten content that’s trying to be done. I forget which podcast was discussing this in the last couple of weeks, but they were discussing on how a guild member can be an absolutely sweetheart 99% of the time, but as soon as kitten starts going downhill in raids, they turn into essentially a Bridezilla. Not the first time I’ve heard people share such stories (in this game or others).

And again…whose demanding content?

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vinceman.4572:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

Sorry, but to use youtube, the wiki, doing “research” on google, look for guides is what you have to do. You won’t get everything from the silver plate. Same thing like in real life. If you have a guild it can help in every aspect of the game. There is so much information out there, we are playing an online game so the rest of the big internet is just some klicks away. Why can’t people explore for themselves or just use simple guides which explain very much faster and better how to get certain things done?
And do you know how hard and often frustrating it is to teach decent or bad players some of the content like fractals and dungeons? I am helping in my guild in about 25% of my playtime. It’s a thing I like to do but some of those days I am in a bad mood because players cannot listen and react to the simplest things.

Who said anything about asking for anything on a silver kittening platter?

You ask why people can’t read guides and such, lets flip that around. Why can’t people be bothered to help with something as simple as a question in a game that’s supposedly supposed to be “mulitplayer” with a great community? This isn’t a solo RPG where the only available resources are guide books, wikis, and youtube. If people have to resort to those methods and only those methods, why the hell should they bother with a MMO?

Why do you assume they haven’t watched a vid, or read a guide, or checked the wiki? People can do those things and still have questions. Twitch is an excellent example of this. People watch, and learn, and still have questions.

I’ve helped bad players, I know how frustrating it can be. And yet, they can also turn into some of the best people to play with because those people (that want to learn, and know they’re bad) can have some of the best attitudes. Its the ones that suck that don’t want to learn that tend to be the biggest headache.

The same reason why the casuals are complaining about not raiding, Time. If I have time to explain something I will but if I need to move on to my next goal I will either ignore the question in say chat (I don’t ignore those that pm me) or just reply with “wiki it”.

There is not enough information in game to let players know that you can type /wiki(item name or whatever).

If you don’t have time, then move on. There’s no need to be a kitten about it. Trust me, I understand the “time” thing. The problem arises when you have 100+ people in a map and people start being kittens to the question asker and spend as much time harassing the person for asking the question as it would have taken to explain the kitten answer. Or, its a simple question, and ppl kitten “wiki it” and could have given the person the answer they sought in the same amount of time it took them to stick that in there.

I think we sort of got off the specific line of thought pertaining to raids here though. New / first time raiders are going to have questions, especially once they get into the instance. Regardless of watching vids, or reading guides, etc. I would think it would be expected. Yes, those players should not be trying to join “exp only” teams in the LFG tool (which is another topic altogether), but in a ‘normal’ group, I would think that questions would be reasonable. Again, just like dungeons.

Yes, it would be nice if the /wiki command was more common knowledge, but that still isn’t the be all, end all solution.

How is that me being a kitten? Now I am going to be a kitten and say can you read?

The GW2 community can be toxic but I have never seen a person that asks a question getting flamed for doing so. At most people will say “wiki it” or just ignore the question.

As far as asking for help in raids.
If you are new to raids and join a ‘exp’ LFG post then expect to get treated harshly. If you are really interested in getting into raids then the best place is to find a guild. If your time is limited due to real life then reading a guide is the only way to get the knowledge you need. Either way you can still join a guild.

I have said this before LFG groups do not represent the raiding community and people that come on here complaining about said community are doing so because of the treatment they get from these LFGs. Guilds do not behave the same.

Oi! I’m not saying you are necessarily. Though, typically a lot of people that do shout “just wiki it” do tend to be.

I’ve seen it several times in my time here. Seems to happen in LA more than any other map, but I’ve seen it in Kessex and a few others. I’ve seen it here on the forums too, which is…sad. I mean, if you’re going to log in just to rant at someone for asking a question, wouldn’t it have just been easier to answer the question. (That was a general “you” not “you” specifically)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sird.4536:

STIHL.2489:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, it’s just that simple. I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are.

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

Many of the people, myself included, that haven’t been able to get into it, or haven’t been able to do it, aren’t asking to make it easier. (We are asking for people to be a bit less kittenhole-ish) You say it’s not hard to find a guild or make friends, and that may be true for you; however, it’s not for all people. Don’t generalize, and don’t judge. You don’t know what they’ve been through or where they are in life.

I only mentioned both sides of the argument. Retread what I wrote and you will see if never generalised or whatever you are accusing me of. Though since you generalised and called me out let me reply in kind.

The people that tend to be ‘kittenhole-ish’ are pug groups. Guild members don’t behave like that and if they do then you are in the wrong guild. I get a feeling that everyone that comes here to complain about elitism is coming on here after a bad pug experience.

If you can’t find a guild or group to raid with because of real life then it isn’t anyone’s fault, you play when you can but those people should not come here to demand content because of it.

The point you missed is that even the people that aren’t whining “make it easier” are getting the flack too. We still get people being kittens, and accuse us of being lazy, etc etc. Thus, the don’t generalize and don’t judge. It wasn’t necessarily directly explicitly “at” you. I use “you” in a general sense a lot, and I probably should qualify it.

And bullkitten, guild members don’t behave that way. I agree, if they do, you may be in the wrong guild. Or maybe, it’s the kitten content that’s trying to be done. I forget which podcast was discussing this in the last couple of weeks, but they were discussing on how a guild member can be an absolutely sweetheart 99% of the time, but as soon as kitten starts going downhill in raids, they turn into essentially a Bridezilla. Not the first time I’ve heard people share such stories (in this game or others).

And again…whose demanding content?

I have been around long enough to know there is that ‘Bridezilla’ complex. However I know how to deal with those people and so do many others. Kick that guy. If you are in a pug group then leave and the the other pugs will do so as well because no one will want to play with that guy.

As for those demanding content it’s the people on the forums saying they can’t raid because of X,Y,Z wanting easier content.

Vinceman.4572:

STIHL.2489:

but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

Well, that’s obviously not true. Have you ever played PvP? Way worse.

PvP is actually competitive, players fighting other players as such there is a certain amount of “smack talk” that is to be expected in any kind of PvP arena, whereupon, PvE is collaborative, and there really is no place for this “Smack Talk”

With that put out, I have personally found GW2 PvP, to be around average to polite in comparison to other PvP arena games.

Ever farmed on maps like Cursed Shore or Silverwastes?

Silverwastes quite a bit to be honest. I can honestly say, I have never seen much in the way of toxic attitude, I mean there is always that one deserter that cries “You all Suck” before rage quitting during a VW, but, when it came to playing the game, I never heard someone say something along the lines of “Only people with full ascended come to Amber keep, need to have your Be All end All title!”

So, no, I can say I have never seen anywhere near the level of toxic excusatory nature that Raids have brought to the game and community.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, there’s nothing stopping them, and we see people do it.

And then wait….
and wait….
and wait….
and wait….

So much fun right?
“if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs”…“it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun”

Its UW all over again. Yippy.

What’s stopping them from joining raiding guilds or the introductory raid guilds? There are quite a few looking for players to teach on the forums, this sounds more like laziness on the players part or wanting to be carried, there are also pugs that don’t ask for requirements other than proper gear and spec.

There are a lot of different options available people tend to only point out the negative selections. Just saying I don’t raid all that much yet when I came back to the game after months of HoT being released I was able to raid with pugs no problem then I joined a guild that casually raids and also provides training raids for others.

You are judging a community based on PuGs which doesn’t make up the majority of the raiding community.

I’m not saying there aren’t options. Never have. I will point out that just because there are options, doesn’t mean they necessarily work either. Beyond that, that’s sort of beyond the scope of the topic of the thread, which is more the attitudes of the community at large as opposed to accessibility. Granted, attitudes do affect accessibility for a lot of people, but accessibility is a larger topic.

You might want to take a step back on slinging that “lazy” term around. The vast majority of players no not use the forums. And players do ask questions, here and in game, and do you know what people tell them? Go wiki it. Go youtube it. Go research it. There is a reason people stop bothering after a while. Its the exact same kitten we saw in dungeons and in fractals.

No, I am not basing my opinions solely on “pugs” per se, considering I have interacted with more than a few of the “non casual” raiders. (Your definition, and mine may vary regarding casual vs non casual. I simply consider anyone that does the raids regularly with some efficiency to be “non casual.” They aren’t necessary hard core min-max do it as fast as humanly possibly type players) Some are decent people, more than “a few” are not. I work with what my I see, hear, read, and experience. I do try to step back and take a broader view than just he said, she said. I do not raid personally, though its not for lack of interest or attempts. My schedule just doesn’t mesh with anyone it seems.

I wasn’t throwing the term lazy around, raids are a more challenging content than anything previously implemented by Anet in GW2, they are a time investment that if done right can be cleared quickly or can drag on, if players want to do them, they should put more effort into their success at getting in to raids/groups and clearing, players know of the existence of the forums, know there are guides online and even there are advertisements in game of raiding guilds and casual raiding guilds looking for more players to join them.

if they don’t use the vast resources available to them then that is classified as lazy the information is out there, it’s not my fault or others if we don’t want to provide information on demand because a player won’t alt tab and look it up for themselves and expect players to cater to their needs of information that has been answered time and again online then they are lazy. i will help out players when given the chance but when it is the same question seen daily and same question that gets multiple threads then I will tell them to google or wiki since that info is more in depth and easier to follow visually instead of trying to tell someone through the limited in game chat.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t think raids are “bad” necessarily, but anytime we get this type of content, in any game, it does seem to bring out the less than savory side of people. It just highlights how terrible a lot of people are. Its frustrating. Its sad. Makes me fight that much harder to pound some sense into people.

I’m going to disagree that raids “brought out” behavior. If anything, I see less complaints about exclusionary behavior with raids than I did back when this sort of thing was going on in dungeons. Take that with a grain of salt if you will, but I forum a lot, probably too much.

.Also, I tend to wonder how “terrible” a large number of raiders would be if players didn’t join PuG raid groups that post requirements unless they met those reqs. There seems to be an implicit assumption in the discussions about “toxicity” and exclusion that players ought to just take anyone, that they’re being selfish and “toxic” if they don’t. Adopting that assumption and joining a group that wants something you aren’t bringing is selfish. Doing so involves placing one’s desire to get into a group now, without making the effort to form one’s own group, over the expressed desires of others.

That said, every MMO I’ve played that has any harder, instanced group content has what I’d call a Catch-22 effect. If you’re late to the party for any reason, you’ll miss the part where everyone was experimenting with that content. At that point, experience is usually required to join some groups, but you cannot get the experience if you can’t get a run.

The solution to this issue, though, is not to foist oneself on players who want convenience as much as one does. Fortunately, there are occasional teaching runs. Also, everyone has the option to recruit other players who are in the same boat in game or on 3rd party sites. That people don’t use these options is probably due to not having the patience to seek them out.

I think some people are really forgetting the important point here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

If you’re not interested in spending 10-20 hours learning a challenging fight, raids probably aren’t for you.

If you’re not interested in overcoming the challenges of forming a coordinated, skilled group of 10 players, raids probably aren’t for you.

If you’re not interested in having to gear additional characters, switch around your builds, try stuff out, fail, and then adjust, raids probably aren’t for you.

And as the video says, it’s okay to not like things! But don’t be a kitten about the things you don’t like.

Also, to the biggest complainer who says nobody wants Viper Reaper, my guild runs 2 every single week, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.

STIHL.2489:

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

I disagree with you for the most part, because of my experiences and what I have seen.

I see people pugging raids and joining guilds because of raids. There’s no dividing there.
Then there’s a group puggers that are (much) more strict with by what means you are allowed to join their puggroup, which in some degree I believe can be seen as ‘dividing’, and there are puggers who are less strict. First group is bigger though from what I have seen. Then there’s also a difference in how patient some people are with people who aren’t playing well for whatever reason. Some thorny hearts out there?
But even then, raids on itself brings people together in the first place like I mentioned before in the first sentence. I, for once, was kind of a lone ranger when playing PvE content, in both sence of the word. Raids made me play more with other people.

Bast Bow.2958:

STIHL.2489:

I have to totally agree with you on this one, It’s weird, and to be honest I have no idea why it happens, but this kind of content really seems to bring out the worst among people as opposed to the best in them, and all it ends up doing is divide up the community, as opposed to bring people together.

I disagree with you for the most part, because of my experiences and what I have seen.

Then we disagree. I have seen never seen such a toxic attitude in any other part of this game, as I have seen with raids, and I enjoy me quite a bit of WvW.

Sird.4536:

Because everyone that can’t do the content comes out complaining and wanting easier content which then brings out the other side saying it’s not hard find a guild or friends.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by doing this?

In the end, either people will agree with you, that raids are easy, and thus nothing really note worthy or they will disagree with you, to which you simply continue to fight with them.. but to what end?

Indeed we do, it seems we both have other experiences, and that’s ok right?
I was wondering what your oppinion is on the rest of my text, if you have one?

I’ve also seen some toxicity, -what seems to have become the general word for..?- come by. Usually I tend to bring a somewhat more friendlier attitude towards people receiving it in either chat or ts. When I do this, pretty often some other people join in the conversation and the ambiance get’s better.
And sometimes I do not, or I give a thorny reaction back against the toxic person. Things usually get worse.

STIHL.2489:

Then we disagree. I have seen never seen such a toxic attitude in any other part of this game, as I have seen with raids, and I enjoy me quite a bit of WvW.

It’s all about personal experience and your personal experience doesn’t represent all experience and there isn’t even really a way to know which personal experience represent the majority. If anything, I believe that the personal experience of the majority when it come to raid is people that just never tried it yet.

My personal experience was on playing with other people. My raid group is now almost 30 ppl strong and several of those person I just never played with them even if there were in my guild. Some of them I never heard of them before and now I play with them every week, we do fractal together and we talk over our VOIP on a regular basis. The few times I pugged was a good time. I had friendly people, there was one troll that we made fun of with the pugs, and the first 2 bosses when so nicely that we kept the pug that never did Sabetha and we explained it to him. I know and play with more different people now than I did before raid. But again, that’s my personal experience and I won’t gonna generalize to say that all the community is loving and nice, just like you shouldn’t say that they are the most toxic community you ever seen in GW2.