Guild Wars 2

I was kicked on the last fractal (swamp) to be replaced by a guildmate. Is this considered griefing? What can I do about it?

Edit: Let me just say that I wasn’t playing bad or causing problems. I simply got screwed over by this group.

same thing happen to me today
i went with 3 from same guild and another random
i was kicked and replaced at last boss

ArenaNet should make it so ppl cannot be replaced in dungeons unless they went offline to avoid abuse like this

i reported the ppl but i know GMs will ignore it

Hearing crap like this makes me so disgusted with these types of players. Serious oversight on Anet’s part anyway to allow this kind of behaviour.

Yes, it is considered griefing/scamming. Yes, you should report them.

Ya, I get paranoid when playing with a group of players from another guild

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes, it is considered griefing/scamming. Yes, you should report them.

The main problem is you lose all group chat log when you are kicked from group, so unless you remember perfectly the names of the people that did it there’s no way for you to even report them.

What makes it worse is that ANet has taken no official stance on this so technically it is not against the rules.

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes, it is considered griefing/scamming. Yes, you should report them.

The main problem is you lose all group chat log when you are kicked from group, so unless you remember perfectly the names of the people that did it there’s no way for you to even report them.

What makes it worse is that ANet has taken no official stance on this so technically it is not against the rules.

I posted about it before they told me to take a screen shot and report them. I its kind of difficult like you said all party chat logs disappear after you get kicked…

DeathPanel.8362:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes, it is considered griefing/scamming. Yes, you should report them.

The main problem is you lose all group chat log when you are kicked from group, so unless you remember perfectly the names of the people that did it there’s no way for you to even report them.

What makes it worse is that ANet has taken no official stance on this so technically it is not against the rules.

Actually, there has been an official response on this matter in this thread.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Actually, there has been an official response on this matter in this thread.

What the moderator failed to mention (or allow players to mention, since she immediately locked the thread) was that being kicked from a party usually erases all party chat from your chat window. So I’m not sure what kind of screenshot they expect people to provide. Often you can’t even remember the exact spelling of their name…

The current dungeon reward system seems designed to please this kind of exploiter (kick people before the last boss, and the friend you invite gets all the tokens, even though he didn’t kill any of the previous bosses). And the fact that the game erases all evidence from the chat window is just the cherry on top of the cake.

I dont care if they get banned. I want my tokens

I hope this issue is on Anets radar. They should make it 4 people required for a kick and the chat logs should remain after. The system right now is totally in the griefer’s favor.

2 rules to follow when playing with people you dont know:
1. Take a screenshot of their names before you start.
2. Try to enter the dungeon/fractals first, so they also kick themselves if they kick you. If you cant enter first, consider leaving the group.

I always attempt to be the one to enter Fractals and I take a screenshot at the first sign of ‘this player might be a kitten’. I’ve had the misfortune to almost be denied loot in the Jade Maw fight once (bad luck and downed due to bad placement during the second agony pulse). I think the threat of being reported was all that led them to actually rez me.

i rarely enter a fractile if i am not the opener or know who opens it if its one that i really dont wanna get kicked out of.

on the other hand i never allow people to kick others unless there is a really good reason (player sucks and is causing major problems/kittening crazy at the rest of the party, purely leaching or simply fully afk for extended periods of time.)

you will learn which people to try to avoid to get the best fractile runs pretty fast
i never been kicked from any frac group but as said i generally take my percursions and i am aware of the properbility of getting kicked if you are becomming the problem of the group..

when all that is said. the game is broken due to the lack of trinity allowing players to be hardcarried so even at very high frac lvl you get people which got absolutely no idea of what they are doing -.- which is an issue

Malediktus.9250:

rules to follow when playing with people you dont know: […] enter the dungeon/fractals first, so they also kick themselves if they kick you. If you cant enter first, consider leaving the group.

And since they don’t know you either, if they follow your “rules”, the party will never manage to start the dungeon, let alone finish it.

Erebus.7568:

on the other hand i never allow people to kick others

And pray tell, how do you achieve that? All it takes is 2 votes. And you can’t even see who voted.

Account.9832:

What the moderator failed to mention (or allow players to mention, since she immediately locked the thread) was that being kicked from a party usually erases all party chat from your chat window. So I’m not sure what kind of screenshot they expect people to provide. Often you can’t even remember the exact spelling of their name…

They have LOGS to look at, and they even asks you for the time you run the dungeon and your timezone, they look at their logs.

Just give them everything you have. And btw, take kitten before running every dungeon, it´s not necessary but will help a lot the GM´s.

You should switch to the alternate group listing for the screenshot to show names instead of portraits.

That is a great idea. I hope the kicking is addressed soon in the upcoming patches. So far I haven’t been kicked at the end of the dungeon, but only in the first parts of the dungeons for not doing an exploit like the rest of the group. Quite annoying!

Hmm, what if kicking someone from the group locked all chest for the current individual fractal instance you’re on? Although I can see another possible griefing tool as kicking people at the end basically means no one in the party gets any chest.

Another option could be simply locking the kick function outside of the lab. If you want to kick someone, you all have to go back to the lab then kick the person which should restart the current instance.

Also, can’t kick while in combat?

U cant do squat.

IT takes 2 to kick.
If someone agree’s you just got outvoted and your out.

IF you dont like it… put him on an ignore list, and never join there game.
Let the community know how crap the guild [XXXX] is in the community.
Get in contract with a guild officer and see if a repremand is possible.

My guild never does things like that… you typically stay with the party unless u go AFK during a boss fight, or you Lied to us in AR in fotm and we ended up resing you way too many times.

The only time i have kicked someone at the last boss is because we NEEDED a ranger with refuge to res at MAW in fotm50 cuz no one had revive orbs.

But the guy understood he was the weakest link, and as the party was, we wouldnt beat it.

But if u get kicked, there isnt ANYTHING u can do about it.
again its a for/nae rule where if someone seconds the kick your out.

So no rage can be directed at the sole member, and Anet isnt about to repremand 4 other people because 1 person was kicked to the curb.
Also u dont know which out of the 4 initiated the kick, and who seconded it.

evolverzilla.2359:

Account.9832:

What the moderator failed to mention (or allow players to mention, since she immediately locked the thread) was that being kicked from a party usually erases all party chat from your chat window. So I’m not sure what kind of screenshot they expect people to provide. Often you can’t even remember the exact spelling of their name…

They have LOGS to look at, and they even asks you for the time you run the dungeon and your timezone, they look at their logs.

If you actually follow the link of the post I replied to, you’ll see the moderator specifically asked for screenshots and player names.

Naekuh.7925:

IT takes 2 to kick. If someone agree’s you just got outvoted and your out. IF you dont like it… put him on an ignore list, and never join there game.

You have no way of knowing who voted to kick you. In fact, even the other people in the group (the ones who didn’t kick you) have no way of knowing who cast the second vote (and, if that is done fast enough – ex., by two players who had planned it earlier), chances are no one else in the party will even be able to see who started the vote.

So how do you “ignore him” ? Who is “him” ? Your only option would be to add the 4 players to your block list.

Add to that the fact that the game erases all party chat (and all mention of the party members) when a player gets kicked, and one gets the impression the whole system was designed to appeal to that kind of kitten.

Fenrir.3670:

same thing happen to me today
i went with 3 from same guild and another random
i was kicked and replaced at last boss

ArenaNet should make it so ppl cannot be replaced in dungeons unless they went offline to avoid abuse like this

i reported the ppl but i know GMs will ignore it

They repeatedly stated, that they would punish grievers. Not allowing to to kick online ppl would be horrible. Would you rather be stuck for 3 hours on the Grawl shaman, when its obvious whose fault it is that it doesn’t go down? With my guildies we never grief kick anyone, but we do kick ppl with luck sigil for example upon discovery :-), or when we have some pug that fails to listen and fails repeatedly …

this bad behavior must be punished !

My grp met an elementalist which resetted the champion at dredge when he is at 50% hp and stood outside afking with no notice at all. The boss just keep running to the elementalist and resetting at the door.
Now tell me, what to do? Just wait it out? Redo the fractal? Fair to the 4 others in the group? Although it could be true that some groups might do that but i have pug to lvl 49 fotm with not a single episode.
The only time a person is kicked is due to his mouth or trying to leech his way up the levels. Imagine someone tells u he have 30 AR and dies at lvl 28 jade maw agony.
I urge the community to be objective rather than passing judgement abruptly.
Bear in mind, everyone will say they play good or did ok. Human nature would be that no one will admit they are bad.

Account.9832:

evolverzilla.2359:

Account.9832:

What the moderator failed to mention (or allow players to mention, since she immediately locked the thread) was that being kicked from a party usually erases all party chat from your chat window. So I’m not sure what kind of screenshot they expect people to provide. Often you can’t even remember the exact spelling of their name…

They have LOGS to look at, and they even asks you for the time you run the dungeon and your timezone, they look at their logs.

If you actually follow the link of the post I replied to, you’ll see the moderator specifically asked for screenshots and player names.

Because it will be faster to find what happened than just browse all the log. They will at least have some information to help.

evolverzilla.2359:

evolverzilla.2359:

They have LOGS to look at, and they even asks you for the time you run the dungeon and your timezone, they look at their logs.

Account.9832:

If you actually follow the link of the post I replied to, you’ll see the moderator specifically asked for screenshots and player names.

Because it will be faster to find what happened than just browse all the log.

Sigh…

So, now that you have (hopefully) read the moderator’s post, try reading my original post again.

treborIRL.4521:

yesterday i got kicked out at the dredge fractal (lvl 20 daily) right before last boss only due to the fact the group wanted to “bug” the boss basically hiding under the ramp up to the bucket and attack from there. obviously it was a guild (guild mV from SoR server) they wanted to cheat there way through the entire dungeon, i had to constantly say "wtf are you guys serious? i never knew people actually do this- so after of what seemed forever with this unskilled group we finally get to dredge – i choose not to help them bug the boss, they call me a “kitten” and all sorts of stuff and i’m kicked to lions arch. i have screenshots and everything of all the cheats/name calling etc. still debating if i should send them in to anet.

Even though what they were doing was stupid and exploiting, you were kicked on the basis of being rude and not following what the party wanted to do. Being kicked from a party isnt about being morally right or not, its about your attitude / performance and whether you’re willing to work with them. Obviously you weren’t because they were idiots, but nonetheless the kick was most likely not because to screw you over.

MountainPanda.5831:

My grp met an elementalist which resetted the champion at dredge when he is at 50% hp and stood outside afking with no notice at all. The boss just keep running to the elementalist and resetting at the door.
Now tell me, what to do? Just wait it out? Redo the fractal? Fair to the 4 others in the group? Although it could be true that some groups might do that but i have pug to lvl 49 fotm with not a single episode.
The only time a person is kicked is due to his mouth or trying to leech his way up the levels. Imagine someone tells u he have 30 AR and dies at lvl 28 jade maw agony.
I urge the community to be objective rather than passing judgement abruptly.
Bear in mind, everyone will say they play good or did ok. Human nature would be that no one will admit they are bad.

Well if it takes more people to kick someone from a group there would be no problem for you since the 4 other players can vote to kick. The problem isn’t the ability to kick, but that it only takes 2 to kick.

grandjudge.4129:

I was kicked on the last fractal (swamp) to be replaced by a guildmate. Is this considered griefing? What can I do about it?

Edit: Let me just say that I wasn’t playing bad or causing problems. I simply got screwed over by this group.

That’s awful. I’m really sorry… it seems like most people that I encounter for Dungeons are actually really awesome – but for Fractals… people have been pretty rude…isn’t that odd?

Anyway I like being able to replace people in the fractals… the other night we had a friend in FOTM 10, but the group makeup wasn’t ideal and it caused some issues… they ended up leaving to go to bed and replaced them with another guild member and finished up the Fractal, it was a relief for all of us.

I would hate to see something like that go away…

Just changing it from 2 to 3 needed to kick people would help a fair bit. Not sure why it hasn’t been done already.

I’d posted at GW2LFG and the last person that sent me a join request got kicked because 2 people in the party were guild mates and wanted to have a third. In the very first battle the person lagged out and went offline. These people are just elitist abusers.

i got kicked at maw lvl 20, and i did nothing wrong !!!

DanH.5879:

i got kicked at maw lvl 20, and i did nothing wrong !!!

The word “wrong” is subjective. What might not be wrong to you, might be wrong for the group.

I.E. – Lack of communication, lack of skill, lack of courtesy.

If only the people who kicked players from parties would post the other half of the story, I’m sure not everyone is as innocent as they claim.

Everyone should just run fraps when doing dungeons so we can all see what is happening and perhaps why the kick happens

My guild has had to kick people from the group before. Even at Jade Maw.
Let me say, my guild loves random members most of the time and we really enjoy it when we get people who play well and are friendly, though those aren’t requirements for playing with us and avoiding a kick. You can be dead silent, as long as you know what you’re doing and work well with the group. We would never kick someone in the middle of Fractals just to replace them with a guild member because we would rather play with them. There have been tons of times I’ve been on in pve while my guild was running fracs with a random player in the group. They don’t ask me to replace them, and I don’t ask for them to be kicked so I can play.

We’ll even often allow somewhat unskilled players as long as they’re not completely ruining everything and they’re pleasant to play with.

The only times we kick is if the player is obviously leeching, if they’re so bad they’re making the fractals almost unplayable, or if they’re.. the word I want to use is filtered. If they’re jerks, basically. My guild had a player like this recently, unskilled and horrendously rude. They accused the group of not knowing what they were doing while the random player continuously failed, also accused them of leeching (even though they were doing all the work), and was all-around unpleasant and incompetent. They had to be kicked during Maw because the group could genuinely finish the fractal easier without them there.

The random player reported them all. I don’t like people falsely accusing my guild of things they did not do and reporting them for it. So what are we supposed to do? Yes, being kicked by jerks for no reason sucks, but being reported for kicking bad players isn’t very awesome, either. This system has problems.

And as far as a few of the posts in this thread go, I would really love to hear the other side of the story. But that won’t happen.

Sure, sometimes you get people who deserve a kick, no one is disputing that. The point of this thread is that the way the system is setup now it’s very easy for 2 people in a party to grief another via the kick system with a very small chance of repercussions. This is a video game and there are plenty of immature people who enjoy doing things like kicking to get their friend an easy dungeon completion.

Simply changing the kick requirement to 4 votes would reduce griefing substantially and still give parties the ability to remove problem players.

grandjudge.4129:

Sure, sometimes you get people who deserve a kick, no one is disputing that. The point of this thread is that the way the system is setup now it’s very easy for 2 people in a party to grief another via the kick system with a very small chance of repercussions. This is a video game and there are plenty of immature people who enjoy doing things like kicking to get their friend an easy dungeon completion.

Simply changing the kick requirement to 4 votes would reduce griefing substantially and still give parties the ability to remove problem players.

4 is overdoing it. What if one guy is a total moron and he brought along a friend? I think 3 is the perfect spot.

yep, 3 of 5 members, and 2 of 4, 2 of 3 would be ok imo

David.4821:

grandjudge.4129:

Simply changing the kick requirement to 4 votes would reduce griefing substantially and still give parties the ability to remove problem players.

4 is overdoing it. What if one guy is a total moron and he brought along a friend? I think 3 is the perfect spot.

Well in that case, I think you should remake the party, because the other 1 will probably leave too. It should require 4 votes to kick someone. I had an AC story run with 3 people from 1 guild, me and another random. The guildsmen said “no watching cutscenes”, for which I didn’t care much. Btw the battles were going ok, no wipes, we were doing fine. So we killed the last boss and then the random guy decided to watch the cutscene… they almost instantly kicked him. I have never been so disgusted with some people in my life, screwing someone over for 20-30 seconds? So yea, 4 votes.

Usually it is not the case that people would kick to bring in a friend, more often the missed view is that the kicked person is insufferable, incompetent and thinks he knows what to do (ie. telling other people what to do while sucking).

That aside, if you join another party, it should reshow the previous party chat so unless there was no chat whatsoever, you can find out the names and report them (and you should, people like that shouldn’t play MMO games).

something like kicking at jade maw can’t be justified by any reasons!
do notice that the members involved already finish up 3 stage and will deserve their reward after the bonus stage!
nometter how rude or offensive he is, kicking him just to deny his reward is just evil!!
these people that randomly kicks people, especially at the end of a dungeon to deny someones reward should be reported and banned!!

Grounder.7381:

something like kicking at jade maw can’t be justified by any reasons!
do notice that the members involved already finish up 3 stage and will deserve their reward after the bonus stage!
nometter how rude or offensive he is, kicking him just to deny his reward is just evil!!
these people that randomly kicks people, especially at the end of a dungeon to deny someones reward should be reported and banned!!

Couldn’t agree more. If you put up with the person through the 3 fractals that actually take skill, then let them get their reward. Kicking at the maw is the exact same as kicking just before the person gets to the chest.

If the problem is behavioural, and I am in the position to kick, I would give them one warning. And I would never kick at the maw unless they went afk or completely batpoop insane.

David.4821:

grandjudge.4129:

Sure, sometimes you get people who deserve a kick, no one is disputing that. The point of this thread is that the way the system is setup now it’s very easy for 2 people in a party to grief another via the kick system with a very small chance of repercussions. This is a video game and there are plenty of immature people who enjoy doing things like kicking to get their friend an easy dungeon completion.

Simply changing the kick requirement to 4 votes would reduce griefing substantially and still give parties the ability to remove problem players.

4 is overdoing it. What if one guy is a total moron and he brought along a friend? I think 3 is the perfect spot.

I disagree, if a single person is truly impeding a groups dungeon progress you will have no issues getting 4 votes.

grandjudge.4129:

David.4821:

grandjudge.4129:

Sure, sometimes you get people who deserve a kick, no one is disputing that. The point of this thread is that the way the system is setup now it’s very easy for 2 people in a party to grief another via the kick system with a very small chance of repercussions. This is a video game and there are plenty of immature people who enjoy doing things like kicking to get their friend an easy dungeon completion.

Simply changing the kick requirement to 4 votes would reduce griefing substantially and still give parties the ability to remove problem players.

4 is overdoing it. What if one guy is a total moron and he brought along a friend? I think 3 is the perfect spot.

I disagree, if a single person is truly impeding a groups dungeon progress you will have no issues getting 4 votes.

Did you not just read what he wrote? Bring a friend, proceed to harass party since you’ll never get 4 votes.

Grounder.7381:

something like kicking at jade maw can’t be justified by any reasons!
do notice that the members involved already finish up 3 stage and will deserve their reward after the bonus stage!
nometter how rude or offensive he is, kicking him just to deny his reward is just evil!!
these people that randomly kicks people, especially at the end of a dungeon to deny someones reward should be reported and banned!!

Agreed, even if they were ‘noobs’, or ‘ kitten #8217; players, you should’ve kicked them at the START of the dungeon, not after 2+ hours before they get the one thing they came there for.

I know our guild run into a bad situation like this but in this scenario the person that was kicked towards the end by our guild group was constantly afk for the whole dungeon for large stretches without any warning. towards the end of the fractal he was afk for absolutely no reason without any warning for a long stretch of time so they agreed to kick and replace with a guild member just to finally finish it.

the guy kicked went absolutely nuts about it, report this report you report that. but at the end of the day he had no explanation for why he hadn’t even responded to being kicked for a further 5 minutes so he was clearly just not at the keyboard.

not saying that this is always the situation but sometimes the person being kicked is kicked for a valid reason and replacing with a guild member is just done at the conveniance of getting it finished quickly for those who have been let down by the guilty party.

Simple solution. Create something called gw2blacklist.com and create posts of scammers, griefers, etc… with proof (screenshot) so everyone can have these people blacklisted.

just happend to me. About 10% health left on last boss and puff, i go kicked.The whole dungeon everyone did its part and there were no incidents of any kind. When i asked why they said: “Because it was funny”. It just made me sad.

Fenrir.3670:

same thing happen to me today
i went with 3 from same guild and another random
i was kicked and replaced at last boss

ArenaNet should make it so ppl cannot be replaced in dungeons unless they went offline to avoid abuse like this

i reported the ppl but i know GMs will ignore it

goes both ways. Means we wouldn’t be allowed to replace annoying trolls, griefers, and horrible players that hold the group back.