Guild Wars 2

Im one of the many people that think Magic Find should be removed from this game, but unlike most who come here and complain i know that its never going to be removed because that would involve anet admitting that they made a mistake which we all know they refuse to do so maybe try something different.

Remove Magic Find from dungeons, simply do not allow players to use magic find gear in dungeons. If they try and enter just have a little pop up window somewhat like the one we have now if were asked to enter a dungeon but have theirs saying they cannot enter with their current gear.

Magic find is incredably selfish in dungeons, especially now with the new wp/combat update. I personally make sure im the one who enters the dungeon and if i see someone using MF i try and kick them and most of the time someone will kick with me but sometimes im forced to drop the dungeon on everyone by leaving the group.

I shouldn’t be forced to drop a dungeon on 3 players using good gear because of one person using magic find gear because i don’t want to run with someone using it.

Theres plenty of options to solve this problem like making it party wide MF instead of just for the single person, or having a gear check system, like hover over a players name and be able to see their gear stats.. something has to be done or at least acknowledged about this garbage stat planced on gear.

I would like to hear offical response about this and why is MF even there in a game that is supposed to be “casual friendly socializing whatever”.

I have similar feelings towards this subject. I would never wear MF in dungeons unless all of my teammates would do the same. It’s just sign of respect- why should I benefit more by contributing less?

adam.8692:

I have similar feelings towards this subject. I would never wear MF in dungeons unless all of my teammates would do the same. It’s just sign of respect- why should I benefit more by contributing less?

They should make harder dungeons make better drops, so you have to bring your best to do it. Not like this, people just grind easiest dungeons like bots or they try to leech others.

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

JJBigs.8456:

At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha, do you even know what are you typing?

JJBigs.8456:

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

As far a I know armor has pretty high influence on aggro control.
Even if undesired for some encounters / party setups, thoughness still adds something to the group.

JJBigs.8456:

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

I’d look again, MF replaces the main stat, and these people can “survive” by using their teamates to their advantege. Nothing like a ranger auto attacking at the back in full MF gear… guess its ok because he didn’t die. I run full zerk on my war in every dungeon which means i could run full MF.. but i don’t.

There should at least be an option to not allow people using magic find into your group.

x per fection x.2096:

and if i see someone using MF i try and kick them and most of the time someone will kick with me but sometimes im forced to drop the dungeon on everyone by leaving the group.
.

lol how can you see if someone is using MF gear ?

I run MF everywhere but progression Fracs. Never have a problem. Roll dodge avoid bad things, win. Other than Ahra and a few fights in SE there isn’t any reason why you’d need to be PERFECTLY geared. The encounters are pretty simple and straight forward. And besides who doesn’t want 188% at better things

JJBigs.8456:

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

Yea, ~1k toughness means nothing, just take MF instead, it’s not that bad…

If someone can survive, then they could run berserker, which is over 30% more damage then mf gear.

Such a useless, selfish trait that should never be in a MMO, especially not for challenging group content.

Strifey.7215:

JJBigs.8456:

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

Yea, ~1k toughness means nothing, just take MF instead, it’s not that bad…

If someone can survive, then they could run berserker, which is over 30% more damage then mf gear.

Such a useless, selfish trait that should never be in a MMO, especially not for challenging group content.

Fully agree. Its nothing else than gimping yourself so you get more for doing less.

Another MF hate thread.

Really, it’s more about the person’s skill than their missing stat. I don’t care how bad a person is, that extra stat isn’t going to miraculously make them play better and be a bigger asset to the team.

I know people who could run a dungeon w/o any armor and wouldn’t hinder a team one bit. They are just that good.

Quit complaining about stats, start focusing on the real issue.. the quality of the player.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Another MF hate thread.

Really, it’s more about the person’s skill than their missing stat. I don’t care how bad a person is, that extra stat isn’t going to miraculously make them play better and be a bigger asset to the team.

I know people who could run a dungeon w/o any armor and wouldn’t hinder a team one bit. They are just that good.

Quit complaining about stats, start focusing on the real issue.. the quality of the player.

Except it does drastically reduce damage. Sometimes killing a boss 30% quicker can be the difference between success and failure.

I can understand the dislike of MF as a stat. I do dislike it myself. It seems to go against the ideology of the game. GW2 promotes group play, teamwork, team dynamics, and helping others. MF is a purely selfish stat and helps noone but yourself. If you run any other stat, that stat will help others, if only through your damage output or survivability. MF, on the other hand, only affects your drops. No benefit at all for other party members, directly or indirectly.

Were MF to have some effect on others in your party, it might be more accepted. But as it stands right now, this stat (and it’s perceived selfishness) is not popular in groups.

What I find really funny is that so many hate on MF gear, but say that MF food buffs are ok. That player could be using a more ‘party’ useful food buff to help the team out, but there is not much complaint about that.

Like someone said, the difference between Knight’s gear and Explorer’s gear is the main stat.. toughness vs MF. That extra toughness is not going to kill a boss 30% quicker. If the player isn’t dying, the extra toughness isn’t going to help a whole lot.

angan.6572:

x per fection x.2096:

and if i see someone using MF i try and kick them and most of the time someone will kick with me but sometimes im forced to drop the dungeon on everyone by leaving the group.
.

lol how can you see if someone is using MF gear ?

Usually sigil of luck is a dead give away. It shares the same skin as some armors so you can narrow it down a bit

I disagree with banning MF from dungeons entierly. Had that type of policy been in effect I would have been unable to run any AR for my 2nd through 5th fractal run above 10. On my frist daily 10 I got a ring with MF on it and immediately stuffed a versital in it. Haveing no AR would have been more detrimental to my group than the negligible drop in damage from a sub optimal ring. While this would easily be classified as a fringe case it showcases why armchair developing with no thought to the consequences often comes up with worse solutions than the status quo.

Now personaly I wouldnt run full MF gear unless the group was cool with it because it is a bit selfish. However just because you want to make an exclusive min maxed group dont try to come up with systems that would force that on everybody including those that dont care if there are some wasted points in the build.

I’d just get rid of MF (Goldfind can stay maybe), and change existing MF gear to have a different gear stat. And then, change the standard drop rates to the rate you’d have with maximum MF. Two birds with one stone, no more complaining about MF leeches and less complaining about bad drop rates.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

What I find really funny is that so many hate on MF gear, but say that MF food buffs are ok. That player could be using a more ‘party’ useful food buff to help the team out, but there is not much complaint about that.

Like someone said, the difference between Knight’s gear and Explorer’s gear is the main stat.. toughness vs MF. That extra toughness is not going to kill a boss 30% quicker. If the player isn’t dying, the extra toughness isn’t going to help a whole lot.

Food is a bonus though, armor is something everyone uses and the dungeon is balanced around. Most people don’t even use any food at all, and (afaik) dungeons aren’t balanced around everyone eating the optimal foods, they just give you a small edge. The various buff foods don’t make nearly as much of a difference as MF armor vs zerker armor does.

As for toughness vs MF, you’re right…. but that does not mean MF is good it just means toughness is a stupid, almost useless stat for PvE. I’ll probably have people call me a noob or something for that, but the fact is if you pay attention you can survive just fine with ‘zerker gear and you do a LOT more damage. The toughness won’t save you, it just lets you be a little more lazy or sloppy.

Edit: Ideally I’d say they should just remove MF completely, but if they don’t want to for whatever reason, it should average it out over your group. One guy with 100% MF? well, now all 5 people have 20% instead. Now it’s fair for everyone.

100% agree.

Leave MF available in the open world, that’s fine.

But for the love of god, disable it in dungeons to not help at all, and give people wearing it a pop up that informs them their MF doesn’t work in dungeons as they enter.

It’s bad enough to do some runs when your entire team are in glass cannon berserker gear in a dungeon that will punish you for it. But with MF people… They constantly die, and do a lot less damage as well.

Strifey.7215:

JJBigs.8456:

MF Gear stats are actually not that bad. Better than some peoples builds who actually have real armor. At the least, its a Knights set of armor that doesnt have toughness, however if the person can survive, they technically did not even need that toughness. So yea, its not as good as zerker, but most people seem to frown upon zerker anyway.

Im not trying to say MF gear is “Good” but its not as bad as people think, if the player is able to live with the gear. (Most cant)

Yea, ~1k toughness means nothing, just take MF instead, it’s not that bad…

If someone can survive, then they could run berserker, which is over 30% more damage then mf gear.

Such a useless, selfish trait that should never be in a MMO, especially not for challenging group content.

Pretty much this, don’t need toughness/vit then run zerl gear and blow stuff up.

How about you let others play the way they want to play. Don’t like MF users? Don’t team up with them. I run MF often. I’ll anounce it most of the time. The only people QQing about MF are the stopwatch speed clearing teams that rage kick players just cause they couldnt shave 10 seconds of their record time. I rush all day at work and want to relax and take my time while playing a game.

OmniPotentes.4817:

How about you let others play the way they want to play. Don’t like MF users? Don’t team up with them. I run MF often. I’ll anounce it most of the time. The only people QQing about MF are the stopwatch speed clearing teams that rage kick players just cause they couldnt shave 10 seconds of their record time. I rush all day at work and want to relax and take my time while playing a game.

Why wouldn’t you want to contribute more to the party?

OmniPotentes.4817:

How about you let others play the way they want to play. Don’t like MF users? Don’t team up with them. I run MF often. I’ll anounce it most of the time. The only people QQing about MF are the stopwatch speed clearing teams that rage kick players just cause they couldnt shave 10 seconds of their record time. I rush all day at work and want to relax and take my time while playing a game.

Problem is.. how can we tell? well if anet would implement an option to allow us to see who has how much MF then we could choose not to run with them. Understand?

x per fection x.2096:

Problem is.. how can we tell? well if anet would implement an option to allow us to see who has how much MF then we could choose not to run with them. Understand?

It is never a good thing to add an ‘inspect’ feature. It fractures the community and causes many to be excluded simply because they are not in the gear preferred by someone else.

All that should matter is is this player effective. It should never be based on what is this player equipped with.

No, I do not like MF as a stat. I find it to be a selfish stat. Yes, I will still run with anyone that uses it. Just because you may dislike it does not mean you should exclude based on it.

SynfulChaot.3169:

x per fection x.2096:

Problem is.. how can we tell? well if anet would implement an option to allow us to see who has how much MF then we could choose not to run with them. Understand?

It is never a good thing to add an ‘inspect’ feature. It fractures the community and causes many to be excluded simply because they are not in the gear preferred by someone else.

All that should matter is is this player effective. It should never be based on what is this player equipped with.

No, I do not like MF as a stat. I find it to be a selfish stat. Yes, I will still run with anyone that uses it. Just because you may dislike it does not mean you should exclude based on it.

not saying add inspect option for gear, just let us hover over someones name and see how much mf they are using. would also be nice to see what frac level someone is too

x per fection x.2096:

SynfulChaot.3169:

x per fection x.2096:

Problem is.. how can we tell? well if anet would implement an option to allow us to see who has how much MF then we could choose not to run with them. Understand?

It is never a good thing to add an ‘inspect’ feature. It fractures the community and causes many to be excluded simply because they are not in the gear preferred by someone else.

All that should matter is is this player effective. It should never be based on what is this player equipped with.

No, I do not like MF as a stat. I find it to be a selfish stat. Yes, I will still run with anyone that uses it. Just because you may dislike it does not mean you should exclude based on it.

not saying add inspect option for gear, just let us hover over someones name and see how much mf they are using. would also be nice to see what frac level someone is too

Fractal level? Maybe. MagiFind? No. That would keep most with any MF gear (even if there is a reason for it for other stats) from ever getting groups much of the time.

There’s a distinct feeling of hatred I have every time I see a Tropical Bird [Worthless Player’s Guild] spawn when I’m in a dungeon. I saw one spawn on level 28 of Fractals of the Mists, and we were already taking a while to kill things (2 rangers, enough said) – you can bet your bottom dollar I said something along the lines of “This upstanding gentlemen appears to be doing us the disservice of utilizing Magic Find armor, let us convince him of his errors and continue the dungeon without such impedances”. Except the opposite of that, I right click → kicked and pulled one of my friends in.

The other give away (if you’re going to say WELL I DON’T USE ALL SIX PIRATE RUNES) is if someone’s saying FOR GREAT JUSTICE when uh.. you’re not a warrior.

Kamahl.3621:

There’s a distinct feeling of hatred I have every time I see a Tropical Bird [Worthless Player’s Guild] spawn when I’m in a dungeon. I saw one spawn on level 28 of Fractals of the Mists, and we were already taking a while to kill things (2 rangers, enough said) – you can bet your bottom dollar I said something along the lines of “This upstanding gentlemen appears to be doing us the disservice of utilizing Magic Find armor, let us convince him of his errors and continue the dungeon without such impedances”. Except the opposite of that, I right click -> kicked and pulled one of my friends in.

The other give away (if you’re going to say WELL I DON’T USE ALL SIX PIRATE RUNES) is if someone’s saying FOR GREAT JUSTICE when uh.. you’re not a warrior.

That action does neither you nor the community any service.

maybe if people keep creating more threads about magic find they will get tired of moderating them and say something or maybe not.

Gamblit.5041:

Dungeons were made to gain personal rewards – notice how in this game, you don’t ROLL on the loot! That is a proof of my statement.
So by sacrificing your personal gains, you are working against the general design.

I encourage people in my party to use MF gear and food. If they can get an extra Exotic or Rare during our dungeon run, than the party was even more successful than anticipated.

Remember, during every dungeon, you can have an unlimited tries to complete it, but you can only get one chance on a loot drop.

Personal gains yes. However, those gain assuming similar MF amounts is more or less homogenous. 10-15 silvers drops from bosses, 26 silvers from completion and tokens. Everyone who completes it get the about the same amount. The party run dungeons TOGETHER to achieve completion for individuals.

Chest is unaffected by MF. And for Traveler and Explorer stats, MF is the major stat so you will definitely miss out on significant survivability or offence.

Pls go ahead and encourage and form your own MF parties. Or get carried and keep finding ways to justify how it’s okay

SynfulChaot.3169:

That action does neither you nor the community any service.

Does the rest of the group the grand service of speeding up the run, and any subsequent paths we do on that same dungeon. Also does the rest of my group the sense of helping cull the wheat from the chaff. I’ve got 2 people I regularly run with who frankly feel insulted when someone comes into a dungeon in MF gear. The best loot comes from the chests, not the corpses, in these dungeons, I’ve personally seen 3 precursors drop since launch from them (none of them for me, sadly).

Kamahl.3621:

SynfulChaot.3169:

That action does neither you nor the community any service.

Does the rest of the group the grand service of speeding up the run, and any subsequent paths we do on that same dungeon. Also does the rest of my group the sense of helping cull the wheat from the chaff. I’ve got 2 people I regularly run with who frankly feel insulted when someone comes into a dungeon in MF gear. The best loot comes from the chests, not the corpses, in these dungeons, I’ve personally seen 3 precursors drop since launch from them (none of them for me, sadly).

Kicking members does not teach anything. It only makes you come off as a bad member of the community. One that many would not want to party with, just in case you did not like them either. If you finished the run with them then talked to them, that is one thing. But kicking them midway? Were I in your group, I’d have left as well as I prefer to group with friendly players.

I do not like the MF stat, but I do not discriminate against others due to it’s use. Nor should anyone, honestly.

The way I feel about this is that when you pug, anything goes. It’s always been this way. There are always players that are severely under geared and it’s up to you whether or not you’re willing to carry them. I suppose the only difference here is that I can’t check gear.

Now, at first, I wished there was a way for players to check another’s gear, but then I sat on it for a while and thought about it. In the past, I am very much guilty of asking other players to leave or ultimately kicking them from the party after checking their gear and seeing that they’re using something of a much lower level than what is expected for that instance.

On one hand, players are about to dedicate a significant amount of time with one another, they should be able to see if everyone is geared well enough to complete that run. However, GW2 is not other MMOs. More than anything else, a player’s skill will determine their success. This game is not so hunched up on numbers (excluding Arah path 4) that your gear will make or break you. People at level 35 with level 35 gear will not only be able to clear those AC paths, but are also made to be able to. You do not need to spend weeks farming a dungeon simply to finally get that top tier sword. Guild Wars 2 is NOT other MMOs, because of that, I feel it would be detrimental to the community to allow others to inspect gear.

I feel that way because this game is made to be player friendly. Creating an elitist community where everyone needs to have top tier gear or be kicked is exactly what is trying to be avoided. So, allowing people to inspect gear would only make this problem worse. Instead, if someone is that hung up on what gear everyone in the party is using, they should join a guild, get some friends, and organize runs with other like minded individuals.

This is Guild Wars after all, not PUG Wars.

Dog.1472:

I feel that way because this game is made to be player friendly. Creating an elitist community where everyone needs to have top tier gear or be kicked is exactly what is trying to be avoided. So, allowing people to inspect gear would only make this problem worse. Instead, if someone is that hung up on what gear everyone in the party is using, they should join a guild, get some friends, and organize runs with other like minded individuals.

^ This.

Not sure what the big Hassle of wearing MF Or such is … Let me put it like this however
I know im pretty new just a month old at GW2 (Playing time that is) and well … I Dont use sigils in my armor or Weapons and on my warrior i find im able to at times crit for about 11k Damage (Highest ive done is 11542) Without the BIG Ring of Death or such from Frac or other stuff Like that (No real sigils and such) Which seems to be alot more then other people in my group who have thouse goodies …
WOULD you seriously hate on someone who did that much damage who decided to wear MF? No offince but ive found im pretty poor compared to ALOT of other ppl out there (15 Gold at level 80 XD)
I Need MF to start getting more gold

I Mean … WvW and Dungeons are the 2 things i dispise most in GW2 … I Can hardly do Frac groups becouse eveyone (Whenever im on that is) Tends to be looking for level 20+ (I have only done 2 at level 12 and 10 and had good success with them) after a week of looking (8 Days) I Find …
if people where to start looking at Gear and BASED if you shouldbe inthe group or not becouse of your Gear … seems to be Backwords

IF you do that your just going to start killing off people who want to do Dungeons, Thus if you delete MF or such I beleve your only benefiting thouse who are allready rich or allready have the Gear

So Why is there alot of talk about OMFG YOUR USEING MF GEAR? GTFO!
just seems as if for people playing a Social Based game … your not being very Social or Friendly.

THACO.7021:

So Why is there alot of talk about OMFG YOUR USEING MF GEAR? GTFO!
just seems as if for people playing a Social Based game … your not being very Social or Friendly.

Hyperbole aside, it the mechanics of MF itself which is for personal gains within, as you termed it, a social based game. Social based implies cooperation and helping one another, which MF does not contribute.

I have never kicked anyone with MF gear. But I do wonder how much better they can perform (they generally play keepaway due the way stat conbination in MF gear are) with other gear, and how much more efficient they will be if they were MFing DEs in CS where mobs have way less HP.

^ I wonder why people farm anything besides CS if they are looking to make money
(Besides CoF, AC).

JJBigs.8456:

^ I wonder why people farm anything besides CS if they are looking to make money
(Besides CoF, AC).

Do not forget about Fractals and CoE when you are speaking of farming for the monies.

Kamahl.3621:

There’s a distinct feeling of hatred I have every time I see a Tropical Bird [Worthless Player’s Guild] spawn when I’m in a dungeon. I saw one spawn on level 28 of Fractals of the Mists, and we were already taking a while to kill things (2 rangers, enough said) – you can bet your bottom dollar I said something along the lines of “This upstanding gentlemen appears to be doing us the disservice of utilizing Magic Find armor, let us convince him of his errors and continue the dungeon without such impedances”. Except the opposite of that, I right click -> kicked and pulled one of my friends in.

The other give away (if you’re going to say WELL I DON’T USE ALL SIX PIRATE RUNES) is if someone’s saying FOR GREAT JUSTICE when uh.. you’re not a warrior.

What’s your problem with someone using MF runes ???

Personally i have 2 magic sets that i use.
1) Explorer’s set with pirate runes for solo farming / pve
and
2) Soldier’s Set with superior runes of the noble that i use for dungeons. Does it hinder me in dungeons and makes me less valuable than the rest of the group ? No because, unlike going full explorers set and losing toughness / vitality with that i have increased survivability , +90 power from runes plus an extra 50% magic find. Combined with a secondary berserkers weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry pies i sit comfortably on ~100% magic find.

What’s your problem with that ? To me it’s clear that you suffer from one of the following :

1) Warrior that thinks the only set available for your class is the berserker set so you don’t want to lose “stats” by stocking MF

[Edit]

I agree that going full explorers armor in a dungeon makes you lose out in other stats and be less effective than the rest of your group but if you can manage to combine it without rendering your self bad like the example i gave you above, i don’t see where is the problem with that.

[Edited by Moderator]

SynfulChaot.3169:

JJBigs.8456:

^ I wonder why people farm anything besides CS if they are looking to make money
(Besides CoF, AC).

Do not forget about Fractals and CoE when you are speaking of farming for the monies.

I didnt. Farming FotM and CoE are horrible for loot per hour/minute compared to CS. Even if you get lucky. In a 5 minute event I get multiple t6 mats, insane amounts of heavy moldy bags, possible rares since i wear mf gear, tons of trash drops to sell + chance @ high level exotics/pre-cursors

angan.6572:

Kamahl.3621:

There’s a distinct feeling of hatred I have every time I see a Tropical Bird [Worthless Player’s Guild] spawn when I’m in a dungeon. I saw one spawn on level 28 of Fractals of the Mists, and we were already taking a while to kill things (2 rangers, enough said) – you can bet your bottom dollar I said something along the lines of “This upstanding gentlemen appears to be doing us the disservice of utilizing Magic Find armor, let us convince him of his errors and continue the dungeon without such impedances”. Except the opposite of that, I right click -> kicked and pulled one of my friends in.

The other give away (if you’re going to say WELL I DON’T USE ALL SIX PIRATE RUNES) is if someone’s saying FOR GREAT JUSTICE when uh.. you’re not a warrior.

What’s your problem with someone using MF runes ???

Personally i have 2 magic sets that i use.
1) Explorer’s set with pirate runes for solo farming / pve
and
2) Soldier’s Set with superior runes of the noble that i use for dungeons. Does it hinder me in dungeons and makes me less valuable than the rest of the group ? No because, unlike going full explorers set and losing toughness / vitality with that i have increased survivability , +90 power from runes plus an extra 50% magic find. Combined with a secondary berserkers weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry pies i sit comfortably on ~100% magic find.

What’s your problem with that ? To me it’s clear that you suffer from one of the following :

1) Warrior that thinks the only set available for your class is the berserker set so you don’t want to lose “stats” by stocking MF

[Edit]

I agree that going full explorers armor in a dungeon makes you lose out in other stats and be less effective than the rest of your group but if you can manage to combine it without rendering your self bad like the example i gave you above, i don’t see where is the problem with that.

[Edited by Moderator]

Its that when people die in MF gear, spawning tropical birds over their body, I always think, well if they had a little more better build, maybe I wouldnt have to stop DPSing them and res. Now granted, they might of died anyway even with better gear, but you always wonder “What If”. If the person performs either as well or better then the team, I wont say anything and its a no issue. If they are being carried, I will make a public comment.

So, MF kittening has been happening since launch. I’m sure everyone on the forums is just as pro and amazing and top tier as they make themselves out to be – I do have notoriously bad luck with PUGs, where all I find are the usual cannonfodder type. Seems everyone always finds those, imagine how many of those are out there?

Good thing it’s never us, the real pros.

But, moving on, I ran full MF rares for the first few months I hit 80. I also outplayed and generally carried teams because I didn’t blow kitten. I’ve since moved on to knight/berserker, simply because I was interested in learning to solo dungeons and I needed extra padding for mistakes.

But if someone in my party has MF, and I am not exaggerating here, at one point they were legitimately nervous to speak up about it – But why should I care? Doing a disservice to the party?

You know what does a disservice to the party? Really bad players. Putting them in choice exotics is going to help a little, but bads will remain bad even with added stats.

And what else does a great disservice to the party? Kicking these MF wearers, especially if they’ve done just fine so far. Not only does it put you a member down in the party, forcing everyone else’s loads up, it can sometimes halt a party completely if you’re not good enough to 4 man it, or 3 man, or duo it, depending on how many people you went in with. (No one is going to try and duo a dungeon with a pug)

That player is probably more selfish than anyone wearing MF, and they’re the ones pointing fingers?

“I shouldn’t be forced to drop a dungeon on 3 players using good gear because of one person using magic find gear because i don’t want to run with someone using it.”

Shouldn’t be forced to ruin a dungeon experience of 3 other perfectly good players, maybe even 4 if the MF guy is actually good, because of your own personal preferences. That’s assuming the 3 others were even good with their gear, since we also love talking about all the bads we find. So because of one person who very well may be doing just fine, OP is saying they are now regrettably forced to drop a dungeon for the entire party. For them, because OP is doing them a favor by negating all time spent and all progress gained because this one guy apparently is not wearing choice gear.

We can apply this same argument, what if they’re not wearing exotics? what if it’s masterworks? Some casual players can’t afford exotics, and they’ve cobbled together what they could. They’re running dungeons to get money and/or tokens for better gear now that they’re 80. They’re doing a disservice to the team as well.

What about the players who don’t stack specific stats but wear exotics? they’re stats are all over the place. what do their runes even do? this is a disservice.

What about the players who cannot figure out traiting to save their lives? the ones who are just naturally bad (supremely casual? where is the line drawn between someone being bad and someone just being a casual player?)

There’s the even greater community disservice of just calling someone a bad and kicking them, rather than taking them and trying to teach and/or help them get better – But that’s a different discussion altogether, and one I’m sure many people will just say “It’s not my job to help other people get better, I play for fun”, leaving them heavily in the exact same category that OP has so kindly pointed out of “someone being entirely selfish and not synergizing with the team”, or “holding the team back”.

But that’s okay, because everyone plays for their own reasons. We can’t expect everyone to stop and help when they just want to get on, get their daily done, and run a few dungeons for their enjoyment without these selfish sub-par MFers ruining their day. That would simply be selfish.

And even beyond all this, put into context, it’s being asked that you restrict a category of armor and weapon to be Banned from dungeons. Like saying “Sorry, this dungeon doesn’t except Rampager.” or “Sorry, Cleric is banned from here.”

“Oh But MF is different!” – It’s not. It’s armor, with a spread of stats, that someone, somewhere, said “I want to build towards that”. That’s what MF armor is, a personal choice from a given selection, for a specific goal. Like choosing Berserker for more damage, or Knight for more survivability. Banning MF provides precedent for banning other armor categories and just starts a whole new stupidly narrow gameplay viewpoint.

This post is way longer than it should be, but in conclusion all I can say is..

OP just told us how they are forced to nobly ruin an entire dungeon their team has been working on, possibly even pre-patch fractals where you COULDN’T get a new member, because someone wasn’t wearing armor they approved of….

And almost the entirety of the rest of the thread nodded sympathetically as if this was a completely humane and kind thing to do.

What the kitten.

Not gonna quote ‘cause that’s just flooding at this point. My group and I enjoy fast, successful runs – when we pick up some strangers, we want to make sure they’re someone who can contribute to their fullest. Instead of noble runes, you could be benefiting from far superior stats simply by slamming six rubies into your gear. The difference between contributing, well-geared players, and contributing, selfish players, is a 40 and 20 minute CoE run. You think I’m kidding? I’m not – you’re at less than 66% effectiveness gear-wise compared to a properly equipped player, with a decreasing difference if you just run runes or somesuch.

And at the guy talking about warriors – that’s primarily because PvE warriors are the easiest class to play to their high damage potential. Engineer can put out similar numbers, but it takes a lot more thought. Guardians can also compete up there but admittedly it takes only a fraction more thought than warrior. Imagine how much damage you could be doing if you were well geared, huh?

Just did some fractals today , 2 of 5 guys at 38 daily using MF gear leeching their way ! This leeching can’t continue anymore ! Game is boring when you got to carrie after you in dungeons some noobs that offer little dps to a dungeon !
And for Ayanavi that from your post i see you’re a MF user 100% welcome to my BL !

JJBigs.8456:

SynfulChaot.3169:

JJBigs.8456:

^ I wonder why people farm anything besides CS if they are looking to make money
(Besides CoF, AC).

Do not forget about Fractals and CoE when you are speaking of farming for the monies.

I didnt. Farming FotM and CoE are horrible for loot per hour/minute compared to CS. Even if you get lucky. In a 5 minute event I get multiple t6 mats, insane amounts of heavy moldy bags, possible rares since i wear mf gear, tons of trash drops to sell + chance @ high level exotics/pre-cursors

I have gotten many charged cores and lodestones in FotM. Even getting one of these makes a FotM run worth it. CoE also can drop them and has the benefit of also dropping tokens that can be redeemed for rares which can be salvaged for ecto.

Ayanavi.1904:

You know what does a disservice to the party? Really bad players. Putting them in choice exotics is going to help a little, but bads will remain bad even with added stats.

And what else does a great disservice to the party? Kicking these MF wearers, especially if they’ve done just fine so far. Not only does it put you a member down in the party, forcing everyone else’s loads up, it can sometimes halt a party completely if you’re not good enough to 4 man it, or 3 man, or duo it, depending on how many people you went in with. (No one is going to try and duo a dungeon with a pug)

That player is probably more selfish than anyone wearing MF, and they’re the ones pointing fingers?

…

We can apply this same argument, what if they’re not wearing exotics? what if it’s masterworks? Some casual players can’t afford exotics, and they’ve cobbled together what they could. They’re running dungeons to get money and/or tokens for better gear now that they’re 80. They’re doing a disservice to the team as well.

Exactly. Stats and gearing =/= skill and familiarity. And skill and familiarity is what matters more in dungeons.

Ayanavi.1904:

There’s the even greater community disservice of just calling someone a bad and kicking them, rather than taking them and trying to teach and/or help them get better – But that’s a different discussion altogether, and one I’m sure many people will just say “It’s not my job to help other people get better, I play for fun”, leaving them heavily in the exact same category that OP has so kindly pointed out of “someone being entirely selfish and not synergizing with the team”, or “holding the team back”.

If you feel they do not know, then take a few moments of your time to teach. Noone got to where they are entirely alone. Everyone learned from someone. If you feel that they should not run MF, then explain to them why. Blindly kicking teaches nothing and simply makes you look like a supreme kitten.

Ayanavi.1904:

And almost the entirety of the rest of the thread nodded sympathetically as if this was a completely humane and kind thing to do.

‘No MagiFind’ elitism in dungeons is almost as bad as ‘80s only’ elitism. Neither does the community any favours.

I typically leave groups that exhibit either form of elitism and apologize to the kicked player as I do not wish to be associated with this form of discrimination.

dani.1956:

Just did some fractals today , 2 of 5 guys at 38 daily using MF gear leeching their way ! This leeching can’t continue anymore ! Game is boring when you got to carrie after you in dungeons some noobs that offer little dps to a dungeon !
And for Ayanavi that from your post i see you’re a MF user 100% welcome to my BL !

A skilled player running MF can still contribute greatly, provided they know what they are doing. And your comment here has me adding you to mine. Gear discrimination is not cool, folks.

How about making MF in dungeons work in such a way that it would benefit everyone in the team? Of course by a proportional fraction of it, so let’s say you have only one person in a five man team with 100 MF, then everyone gets 20 MF during the run. No gear inspection laments, no whining that someone’s dps or survivability is lower because you benefit from his MF just as much as he does benefit from your higher dps and / or survivability. Everyone helps the team here gear-wise, sounds fair to me. Thoughts?

mosspit.8936:

THACO.7021:

So Why is there alot of talk about OMFG YOUR USEING MF GEAR? GTFO!
just seems as if for people playing a Social Based game … your not being very Social or Friendly.

Hyperbole aside, it the mechanics of MF itself which is for personal gains within, as you termed it, a social based game. Social based implies cooperation and helping one another, which MF does not contribute.

I have never kicked anyone with MF gear. But I do wonder how much better they can perform (they generally play keepaway due the way stat conbination in MF gear are) with other gear, and how much more efficient they will be if they were MFing DEs in CS where mobs have way less HP.

Allright … In that case why not just boot eveyone who dosnt have Red Rings of Doom or such then if your going to be like that?

Hey guys I will do 30% less damage and I will get 180% better loot.
And now your dungeon will take about 10% longer than it needs to be.

Hey why do you want to kick me, stop being so unsocial.