Guild Wars 2

Avoiding the argument of using MF hurting your team etc…

I’ve never really been satisfied with the returns I’ve gotten from MF in this game. Many drops aren’t influenced by MF at all and chest drops aren’t influenced by it at all. Outdoors, DR hits MF and quickly kills it. Combine that with the fact that drops are only a portion of my income, as I flip on the TP too, and I’ve just come to the conclusion for myself it was better to just wear normal gear for the best combat effectiveness.

Riis, do you wear your MF armor on your forum warrior or should we expect berserker?

MF is terrible and anyone who defends it is just trying to defend their leeching. That MF could be better used anywhere whether it be for survivability or Damage and adding MF runes can be even worse as many runes will help out party members with buffs.

angan.6572:

I play ranger and i have 2 sets of magic find gear that i use.

1) Explorer’s gear (Power , Precision , Magic Find) with runes of the pirate and a weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry bar. With that you have 18% armor, +50% runes (5 runes), +3% opal orb on helmet , and 15% on 25 stacks on weapon, +30% food = 116% (assuming that’s how it gets added, not sure)

^ That’s for solo farming and running around in pvE maps

2) Ascalonian set from AC (power, toughness, vitality) with superior runes of the noble , weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry bar. 50% runes (5 runes), 3% helmet (opal orb), 15% from 25 stacks on weapon and 30% from food = 98%. Plus with superior runes of the noble you get +30 power bonus.

^ That for dungeons that require a little more bulky build to survive. As you see you can reach 100%+ magic find without sacrifising any major stats.

From personal experience the difference i see with magic find is not really that much. I noticed a small increase on white loot but the rare/exotic drops for me it look the same without using MF gear. If the possibility of a a rare/exotic to drop is 1% even with 100% MF you will get 2% which is still insignificant in my eyes.

both of those sets are pathetically selfish (i can understand the first one -as it isnt for teamplay-, but PVT is just as bad as explorer gear in dungeons unless you plan on being the aggro anchor -which; as a ranger – i find doubtful; even guardian anchors have a tendency towards knights gear for the on crit procs) you’d probably do more damage (ironically; contributing more) in your first set than your second

’^ That for dungeons that require a little more bulky build to survive. As you see you can reach 100%+ magic find without sacrifising any major stats. ’
you are wrong.

- i also severely hope that youd atleast have the decency to use a dps pet in dungeons so you arent a deadweight

Riis.7615:

Venereus.9473:

I have both Berserker and Explorer gear on my Warrior. The difference is around 300 power and ~75% critical damage, precision remains the same. I’m a glass cannon on both sets, so the only difference is the decreased damage, meaning the run might go a little slower. But then again whenever a dungeon run takes longer than it should is usually because one or more players in the party are bad/inexperienced and fail at performing the necessary task to beat the dungeon’s mechanics, like in the arm seals at the Colossus fractal, someone kills the chanter you shouldn’t kill and there goes an hour of your life trying to do that part the hard way. Seriously, if I’m a leech on my MF gear then what’s a Ranger?

Thank you! Finally someone says it.

That is the very thing that these maximum DPS fail speeders don’t really understand.

That part kitten es me off the most. Most of the time the DPS-aholics, speed running noobs are the ones screwing up, not because they were too weak, but because they failed to establish or follow the plan. Can’t even do the door map in the fractals because of them too. They can’t hold anything because they normally lack the health and/or defenses to survive, lets not even mention the lack of a single breakout, condition, or any means of offensive support (crowd control effects). They just act like sheep and follow the first moron leader with the worst assessment, observant, tactical, and just overall skill to their loser(full of fail) speed run. Worst one I ever been in was in AC exp path 1 before it was revamped. The plan was to hit the west chain, and I was the weakest one there with a level 35 elementalist brandishing the ice bows to rip apart the burrows quick among level 80 thieves and warriors. The team all skipped Kholer too, I should have left because no matter how fast I made it, the losers who were charged to defend the NPC all died because they did something VERY wrong, like pull with a single target only melee weapon while not evading, destroying the burrow in front of the door before the 3rd in line was gone thus unless the scavengers on either them or the NPC or the burrow team with the ice bows before we even know it, neglecting to even use caltops and area snarls (caltrops), stuns, or damage field effects like the warrior’s 8 second ring of fire bow burst skill or bow bombs or the thieves’ poison gas or bow bombs to ensure they themselves don’t get killed. They started to listen to me after we failed and had to run ALL the way back from the start cause we skipped Kholer and I warned them that it might happen too. Next thing I know, the first people going down in the Kholer fight were the same noobs who were all for " MAXIMUM DPS WINZ EVERYTHING! DDHHHERERERER!" bull crap, needless to say they died cause they failed to evade or block the pull. Stability would have helped their DPS more too cause it prevented them from being interrupted, so they can keep on with the relentless assault which as you would find almost nobody except a guardian, lucky Mesmer, or outside PvP will EVER use it normally in a dungeon where being knocked down, dazed, stunned, or pull is frequent. I quit the team after that horrible wipeout instead of persisting with that band of noobs. Because of being in teams like that most of the time, most of my character are stuck being support so that our lovable DPS kittens won’t bleed, burn, get thrown down to death before they get OHKO’d. I don’t even want to take about how those same punks don’t bother to revive you before you die, not even so much as to just to a fear, AoE pushback like the warrior’s stomp and elementalist’s earth quake, and other means to preventing damage while they revive or a ranged revival skill would have helped too (so glad they fixed the elementalist’s revive glyph). They just try to rally off of silver frame foes who aren’t even near death, or in worse cases they are trying to prove they are the best and let EVERYONE die. Been in a failed speed run where they tried to 3 man the revamped spider queen in AC exp while they left me outside to recruit a 5th guy. Me and the 5th guy never made it to the scene, and they died FAST cause they followed the kitten who claims it was THAT much easier with their dodges and maximum DPS. After that display, I felt it best to leave before I dump half my earning into only repairs. -_-

But for the first part, you know you can save the crit damage if you ditch the explorer’s gear and get the runes of the noble set so you can total up your magic find to 50% while your overall gear that isn’t magic find will still have their stats, right?

This mentality is why I’m never allowing MF’ers in my party.

swiftpaw.6397:

This mentality is why I’m never allowing MF’ers in my party.

Oh come on, I’m sure most of us would take a MF geared player over a bad noob any day. You just like to pick on MF cuz you can spot them with gear pings. If you could as easily identify baddies you’d do that instead.

You’re running around in the field, MF can be handy for looking for rare drops. It’s not something you should actively gear towards for dungeons, though.

On the other hand, ascended gear like Solaria and Lunaria I feel are pretty good, since they contribute to all of your stats and give magic find as well. And if you’re like me and run multiple armor sets for your different specs, it’d just be too much of a hassle getting separate ascended gear for each of those sets anyway.

Venereus.9473:

swiftpaw.6397:

This mentality is why I’m never allowing MF’ers in my party.

Oh come on, I’m sure most of us would take a MF geared player over a bad noob any day. You just like to pick on MF cuz you can spot them with gear pings. If you could as easily identify baddies you’d do that instead.

Actually I’d kick both. Correct.

Ayrilana.1396:

ETR.8152:

I get more rares etc without mf….

Look up statistical probability.

I am flipping a coin for a min and get 10 heads and 10 tails. I hop on one foot and repeat the same process ending up with 18 heads and 2 tails. Does that mean that me hopping on one foot increased the odds of getting heads?

The point I’m trying to make is that you can’t base your conclusions on personal observations alone when it’s probably that you can get lucky without MF gear.

Another way to think of this is to assume that something has a definitely probability of occurring 50% of the time. You have the ability to make it occur 75% of the time. It’s well within the realm of probability to attempt something 10 times with the 75% chance and not get your desired result yet achieve it multiple times with the 50%.

A lot of people who don’t understand probability are more prone to be superstitious and think lucky charms or lucky numbers will help them. I’m not saying this specifically at you but just in general.

And this is precisely why they need to drastically improve the effect of MF gear. I’d like to see MF made three or four times as effective. I get one yellow every 12-25 greens right now. With 100% MF I should be getting a yellow within every 10 greens, and I should be getting greens far more consistently.

Until then, my MF gear is just going to sit and collect dust. I’m tired of losing out on all the loot bags in Orr and getting more terribad blues that go straight to the vendor for paltry coin.

If ArenaNet wants us to make our fortune adventuring rather than playing the TP, they need to make adventuring more lucrative.

In dungeons, I feel like MF should behave something like it did in Diablo 3:

- Magic find on gear is split and shared equally among all members of the party. Consumable MF remains undivided.
- Killing enemies and completing optional events give you bonus MF for the duration of the dungeon path (maybe even extending into subsequent paths without repeats, could be an incentive to run all of the paths). Make MF apply to both boss chests and drops.

At the risk of opening that can of worms, can anyone remind me why there shouldnt be a gear-check?

Razeor.6271:

At the risk of opening that can of worms, can anyone remind me why there shouldnt be a gear-check?

Without MF there shouldn’t be need for one.
But since MF is part of the game, I could agree that there should be a gear check for those who want it. I sure as hell don’t want a leeching MF’er in my dungeon party, but without asking everyone to link their gear in chat (which I’ll never do) there’s no way to tell.

I’ll never understand why ArenaNet supports selfish gameplay in an organised group setting. If it were up to me I’d either:
-Remove MF from the game.
-Disallow players to equip any MF in dungeon instances.
-Disable the bonuses of MF in dungeon instances.
-Share MF bonuses to everyone in the same party (non-stacking).
-Have a way for players to easily identify players who use MF.

The common wisdom is gold find in dungeons and magic find in PvE open world / Orr. There’s no reason to break that rule since you’re skipping most mobs in dungeons anyways. All the good loots drop from chests which isn’t affect by magic find.

Chopps.5047:

The common wisdom is gold find in dungeons and magic find in PvE open world / Orr. There’s no reason to break that rule since you’re skipping most mobs in dungeons anyways. All the good loots drop from chests which isn’t affect by magic find.

If only that would stop people from bringing useless MF gear into dungeon parties…

Linguistically Inept.6583:

angan.6572:

I play ranger and i have 2 sets of magic find gear that i use.

1) Explorer’s gear (Power , Precision , Magic Find) with runes of the pirate and a weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry bar. With that you have 18% armor, +50% runes (5 runes), +3% opal orb on helmet , and 15% on 25 stacks on weapon, +30% food = 116% (assuming that’s how it gets added, not sure)

^ That’s for solo farming and running around in pvE maps

2) Ascalonian set from AC (power, toughness, vitality) with superior runes of the noble , weapon with sigil of luck and omnomberry bar. 50% runes (5 runes), 3% helmet (opal orb), 15% from 25 stacks on weapon and 30% from food = 98%. Plus with superior runes of the noble you get +30 power bonus.

^ That for dungeons that require a little more bulky build to survive. As you see you can reach 100%+ magic find without sacrifising any major stats.

From personal experience the difference i see with magic find is not really that much. I noticed a small increase on white loot but the rare/exotic drops for me it look the same without using MF gear. If the possibility of a a rare/exotic to drop is 1% even with 100% MF you will get 2% which is still insignificant in my eyes.

both of those sets are pathetically selfish (i can understand the first one -as it isnt for teamplay-, but PVT is just as bad as explorer gear in dungeons unless you plan on being the aggro anchor -which; as a ranger – i find doubtful; even guardian anchors have a tendency towards knights gear for the on crit procs) you’d probably do more damage (ironically; contributing more) in your first set than your second

’^ That for dungeons that require a little more bulky build to survive. As you see you can reach 100%+ magic find without sacrifising any major stats. ’
you are wrong.

- i also severely hope that youd atleast have the decency to use a dps pet in dungeons so you arent a deadweight

Its bad enough that he is a ranger.
Yea agreed in PvE you wanna kill fast nobody wants to waste their time.

swiftpaw.6397:

Venereus.9473:

swiftpaw.6397:

This mentality is why I’m never allowing MF’ers in my party.

Oh come on, I’m sure most of us would take a MF geared player over a bad noob any day. You just like to pick on MF cuz you can spot them with gear pings. If you could as easily identify baddies you’d do that instead.

Actually I’d kick both. Correct.

Hi-five! swiftpaw

A bad noob usually knows, that he’s bad. He knows, that he’s a burden for the group and I doubt he’s happy about that. Whenever I see such a person, I offer help which is gladly acceptet most of the time.
He sucks because he doesn’t know better and at least he is trying.

The good player with MF on the other hand sucks just because he can, fully aware of his failure. (On the other hand, I don’t think that something like a, “good player with MF” exists at all)

So, no. I would rather kick someone with MF then someone without skill/exp.

Molch.2078:

A bad noob usually knows, that he’s bad. He knows, that he’s a burden for the group and I doubt he’s happy about that. Whenever I see such a person, I offer help which is gladly acceptet most of the time.
He sucks because he doesn’t know better and at least he is trying.

The good player with MF on the other hand sucks just because he can, fully aware of his failure. (On the other hand, I don’t think that something like a, “good player with MF” exists at all)

So, no. I would rather kick someone with MF then someone without skill/exp.

Yes, let me reitterate on that, I was just being brief because it was a stupid argument put forth to me.

I’m happy to take noobs and people who have never entered any dungeon before, that’s fine. What I expect of them though is this:

1.) exotic gear set or mostly exotics
2.) ability to follow instructions.

he sorta left the door open by saying bad noobs and such so my meaning of kicking is being people who:

1.) intentionally kitten themselves ( and the team) with a bad stat set (magic find) for personal gain.
2.) people who do not listen to instruction.
3.) people who think they can just waltz into an organized dungeon group with crappy blue/green/white whatever gear and no trait setup and just take advantage of others.

In my opinion in a party only the sources of mf that don’t kitten yourself are acceptable, ie the +20% from amulet infusion (that replace a laughable +5 to stats) and the +30%-40% you can get from food.

I’d rather take a newbie in full non-MF rares (for the reason that he can’t afford exotics yet) over a skilled player in MF exotics.
At least the newbie has potential to become an amazing player, and a credit to team, whereas the player wearing MF is better off playing solo since he’s only in it for his own selfish goals.

I’d like to preface this with the fact that I AGREE magic find gear has no place in dungeons, only because loot you get from enemy drops is low (you’re usually skipping mobs). It’s not about hurting others; it’s that you’re not really helping yourself. Why wouldn’t you throw those stats instead into toughness to (at least) make your life easier?

That said, I don’t understand gear checks, or the logic “magic find is selfish.” Isn’t toughness, vitality, and healing power also selfish? Do you guys kick magic finders and allow tanks? Sure, if you die, you’re hurting the group, but what if you’re skilled and you don’t die?

As an example, I ran TA f/f (I have hundreds of times), and the guy who volunteered to stack oaks had no idea what he was doing. I had to switch to an underleveled alt at the boss to get the 60 tokens. Well, everybody died and I soloed the tree just by kiting the oakhearts. I was in blue gear with white weapons, and lv45 in a lv55 dungeon.

What I’m getting at is that (in this game) skill plays a much more relevant role than gear. Also, it’s silly to assert that there is one optimal build (e.g. berserker), because it sucks all the fun out of the RPG aspect. Just let people play the build they want to play, and help them when they struggle instead of yelling at them or kicking them.

Tony.6028:

I’d like to preface this with the fact that I AGREE magic find gear has no place in dungeons, only because loot you get from enemy drops is low (you’re usually skipping mobs). It’s not about hurting others; it’s that you’re not really helping yourself. Why wouldn’t you throw those stats instead into toughness to (at least) make your life easier?

That said, I don’t understand gear checks, or the logic “magic find is selfish.” Isn’t toughness, vitality, and healing power also selfish? Do you guys kick magic finders and allow tanks? Sure, if you die, you’re hurting the group, but what if you’re skilled and you don’t die?

Other stats does improve combat effectiveness for yourself and the team. Offensive stats kill enemies faster. Defensive stats enable you to last longer so at the very least your teammates will not need to rez you as often. MF stats offers nothing to the group. Well unless you decide to split loot lol.

Tony.6028:

As an example, I ran TA f/f (I have hundreds of times), and the guy who volunteered to stack oaks had no idea what he was doing. I had to switch to an underleveled alt at the boss to get the 60 tokens. Well, everybody died and I soloed the tree just by kiting the oakhearts. I was in blue gear with white weapons, and lv45 in a lv55 dungeon.

What I’m getting at is that (in this game) skill plays a much more relevant role than gear. Also, it’s silly to assert that there is one optimal build (e.g. berserker), because it sucks all the fun out of the RPG aspect. Just let people play the build they want to play, and help them when they struggle instead of yelling at them or kicking them.

Your personal anecdotal evidence probably suggests that you carried your party. However it is not because of MF.

I guess it depends on who you run with as well in most dungeons since they are very easy you can use MF and not have any issues. I personally use it when I run in every dungeon except Arah and in fractals when im doing 26 or less. I do see a difference when I use it as well, but with RNG you just never know how good it really is. If I am running a group with people I dont know I would have no issue swapping to one of my other sets of armor. My MF set is valk’s with the pirate and traveler runes’

Magic Find gear is a bad game design concept. It lets a player make it harder for the group to succeed so that he can personally get better loot.

Magic Find should be a difficulty slider at the start of the Dungeon that the party decides on.

Well, you do get better loot when you wear MF.

Personally I feel most dungeons are so easy you could run them naked and it still would be smooth sailing.

Sure, I have that full zerker set tucked away in my backpacks. Sometimes you need it. But I don´t remember the last time I did.

And you know whats more leechy then MF wearers? The other 90% of the playerbase that die on trash AoEs in dungeons / can´t follow directions / don´t know target priorities and still feel that they are in fact totally ubereleet since they have the dungeon master title (who doesn´t? only kitten wear it) and can speed run CoF in 6 minutes.

There isn´t a single hard dungeon in this game. There are some that are boring and tedious. But not a single hard one.
If you need everyone contributing 100% capacity all the time in full ascended / full exotic while skipping every single trash mob (god forbid you fight something more challenging then the bosses) then perhaps you should just farm CoF until you drown in cash from that?
Thats really the only reason to be angry about MF. All other scenarios you just kind of suck if its ever an issue. Learn to dodge – wear the MF gear – kill the trash – drown in rares – profit

The other day I was in a COE on my guardian and we had a guy in full magic find. What ended up happening? I had to switch out to my glass cannon warrior to compensate for the lack of dps.

As it was a pug it wasn’t my job to kick such a person, but it sure as hell isn’t fair on anyone. If it was my group I’d kick them in seconds.

Tired of having to compensate for selfish behaviour. Not everyone wants to be in the dungeon longer just for your rare drops. Do it with other magic finders, not with people who just want to get kitten cleared.

I don’t believe I’ve seen ‘Magic finders dungeon run!’ in gw2lfg. Better get to it.

To Khaolic’s point, is there any player that continually wipes with Magic Find gear and then turns amazing when equipped with Berzerker’s? They’re not doing any DPS if they don’t know what they’re doing. If you have to carry someone, it’s their lack of experience, and not the gear they’re wearing.

Explorer’s does just as much DPS as Knight’s.