Guild Wars 2

Since the recent patch, I have witnessed the GW2 community sink to an all-time low. I’m referring specifically to all the would-be semi-pro condition-spamming menaces turning the waterworks up to 11 about Diamond Skin.

Necromancers and engineers are, by far, the worst for this in my experience, but generally anyone with a notion to load up their PvP build with nothing but condition damage/duration and faceroll the whole competitive scene has invariably come to the forums and whined about this trait.

I didn’t make this to call you hypocrites, but I’d like to provide a sober perspective by pointing out exactly why you are the last people to be complaining about builds.

1. Elementalists have the lowest health pool and weakest armour. Even with vitality runes, the threshold an elementalist has to keep themselves immune from conditions is a maximum of about 2,500 hp. After that, they’re under 90% hp and vulnerable to conditions. If you can’t deal that much damage, then Diamond Skin is not the problem.
2. Because elementalist burst damage has been severely nerfed, forcing eles to run celestial if they want to have any combat versatility, the effective maximum threshold you have to deal with is approximately 1,800 hp before they’re under 90%.
3. Conditions are handed out like kittening candy. Even with Diamond Skin, elementalists have to run traits like Cleansing Wave and Cleansing Water, or at least one condition cleansing utility just to keep up with the application of conditions when they are under the 90% threshold.
4. The loudest QQers about this are the people who have eschewed vitality/toughness gear in favour of more condition damage and more precision. If an ele ran that set up they’d have 11k health and wouldn’t survive an angry glance from a half-decent mesmer. Frankly, you deserve to be punished for your greed and arrogance.

Additionally, many threads complaining about this trait have arguments along the lines of “elementalists are OP now”. I’d like to clarify what the actual situation is. Every class is OP now. It just so happens that a significant cross-section of the player base that is more skilled than you are really enjoys playing elementalist because it is the most engaging class. Because every class is OP, they can go back to their elementalist and be on a more even playing field than ever before. You’re getting stomped as much as you would if elementalists weren’t in the game, it’s just that more of the people stomping you are on their eles than they have been at any point since the game came out.

In closing, I heartily suggest that you learn how to play.

Please feel free to respond with your own thoughts.

Regards,
An ele

You. I like you.

indeed, 8k fire grab on a celestial that can also apply tons of burning is not op.

I’m amused

Thanks

Although your assumption about the skill of the average elementalist is at best slightly biased, I agree about your general sentiment. Some necros complain so much on the forums that I wonder if the general darkness of their profession didn’t turn them into emo teens.

Here’s a fun fact: before the specialization patch, a Carrion condition necro with 6 points in Spite (so, very high Power for a condition build) using Life Blast (hardest hitting Power skill a condition Necro has access to) would take ~10 seconds (actually 9.8) to break through Diamond Skin on an ele with Signet of Restoration and sitting in water attunement doing nothing but autoattacking. And this is assuming only 100 Healing Power on the ele.

The Ele could literally be AFK and the Necro took that long in a high Power build to break through and be able to apply conditions. This also used up nearly half of their life force, which is difficult to generate on condition Necros anyway and nigh impossible when you can’t get any conditions on your target (as Feast of Corruption doesn’t generate life force on clean targets).

What do you think happens when the Ele actually plays?

Good afternoon.

I think you raise a few good points. As someone that mains engineer and has thousands of matches played on it, I think you’re right to say that Diamond Skin is an important counter against condition builds. However, there are a couple things you say that I think deserve response, because I don’t think it’s fair how you characterize my or your class and the state of their play.

Provost.6210:

3. Conditions are handed out like kittening candy. Even with Diamond Skin, elementalists have to run traits like Cleansing Wave and Cleansing Water, or at least one condition cleansing utility just to keep up with the application of conditions when they are under the 90% threshold.

I think it’s important to note that elementalists have more sustained burning access than most classes, and regardless of what build they run, will always have access to a fire field.

The problem that many people have with Diamond Skin isn’t that it counters condition builds but that you counter condition builds while still having plenty of access to damaging conditions; elementalists right now are in the position where they can have their cake and eat it too. Rock beats scissors, but rock somehow can also be scissors every time a paper comes along.

Provost.6210:

I’d like to clarify what the actual situation is. Every class is OP now. It just so happens that a significant cross-section of the player base that is more skilled than you are really enjoys playing elementalist because it is the most engaging class.

I think if it came down to skill I’d be OK with that. I am a PvX player, meaning I put about 70% effort into everything rather than 100% effort into one game mode. And I know there are way better players out there than I am. I am not old but I am not young; my reflexes aren’t as sharp as they used to be, and in this burst meta I find it difficult sometimes to re-position myself before it is too late.

But just as you claim there is no skill in slotting for conditions loaded for bear with the Flamethrower, off-hand pistol, and Incendiary Powder, there’s really no skill in swapping to Water or traiting into Earth for Diamond Skin, either.

Discussions of skill really serve no purpose; it’s a question of floor and ceiling. And truthfully while elementalist has always had a relatively high ceiling, higher than most other classes in the game alongside thief, mesmer, and engineer, their floor has gotten considerably lower in this balance patch compared to other classes. You have had many hinging traits pre-patch merged into baseline while engineers lost several hinging traits and haven’t had baseline adjustments to compensate.

We’re still sitting here wondering if bombs being 180 radius is intended or not, and why half the changes they gave us in the PowerPoint never made it to launch. Engineers are throwing everything they have into one-shot builds like Marauder Grenade Kit and Rabid FT/TK because that’s literally our only option right now.

You call it arrogance and greed, but I call it desperation.

I’m still having a lot of fun with this patch, but let’s not kid ourselves. Elementalists are in a very good place right now, and not every class got as good treatment as yours did. So while you may sit there and feel the need to kick engineers while they’re down and say they deserve to lose over skill, I don’t think you’ve properly evaluated the whole situation.

Complaining about Ele burning on a Diamond Skin build only shows that you’re outplayed. The biggest burning from Ele is from Ring of Fire, which does 3 stacks on burning when you walk in and out of it.

The important part? It applies zero/no burning stack on cast! In order to get burned, you must walk in and out of it. I have seen people stayed on it for full duration, died, and whispered complain about OP burning Ele. It’s like a player keep running into guardians Ring, got knocked down 3 times, died, and QQ complain.

A Diamond Skin Ele has no trait for burning. If people keep walk in and out of the Ring of Fire, they deserve to be defeated. As Grouch said: don’t do it.

You can complain about Diamond Skin; however, don’t QQ about burning in the same sentence. It only shows that you’re outplayed.

Wait, what exactly did Ele get baseline? (@Phineas) We mostly got stuff other classes got(like Necro getting more LF without having to take Soul Reaping), but we didn’t actually get anything crazy baseline, like say, Mesmer did.
What they did is push us further into Water and 3x Cantrips when they should have most likely lowered the sustain in Water a bit and given us some sort of usable cleansing/sustain in other lines.
All that being said, DS is poorly designed as it hard counters several amulets, but is useless against almost anything else. Would be better if it applied Resistance for 1-2s upon switching to Earth or something to help mitigate conditions, but not make them entirely useless and not be so passive.

Sunshine.5014:

Complaining about Ele burning on a Diamond Skin build only shows that you’re outplayed.

Please don’t misunderstand me.

I am not complaining about Diamond Skin or asking for it to be nerfed. I agree with Malchior that it’s really only good against select builds and absolutely useless against others. I generally don’t face elementalists that use it, and if I do I just peel off and focus elsewhere because of the aforementioned reason.

I think a lot of players actually get confused because the burn-heavy build requires Fire, which means they’re not taking Diamond Skin. But who you fight in matches can sometimes feel like a blur, especially when elementalists are so common in PvP, which can lead to “QQ” fests greatly overstating the capabilities of one build versus another for players that aren’t familiar with the class. Mesmers are dealing with the same problem, where people come onto the forums and cry that they can blind, daze, stealth, burst, and condition spam all under the same build.

I have hundreds of hours played on my elementalist. I know the trait isn’t OP and that it has many glaring weaknesses; personally, I think it could use a buff or redesign because sitting in Earth to avoid conditions is just tedious and limiting.

I just think it’s kind of bizarre that OP claims that engineers are “greedy” for running Rabid builds when that’s truthfully the only option we have currently (and power-equivalent builds just as lacking in survivability), and that elementalist has just as much burning access as engineers do.

That players are dumb enough to stand in it is really beside the point. As I said it’s about ceiling and floor, and Diamond Skin is a very low skill floor build on a class with a very high ceiling.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I agree with Malchior that it’s really only good against select builds and absolutely useless against others.

Thus why it needs to get changed to grant resistance on entering earth. It would still be strong against condition builds, but wouldn’t be blatantly broken against some of the builds and useless against other. It would also require the ele to actually use their class mechanic, and play actively to get the best use out of it while having real counterplay in the form of boon removal.

Also, to the OP. Your class is now being taken 2 at a time in pve speed runs, and pvp teams. I shouldn’t have to teach you basic statistics for you to realize that means the class needs nerfs or everyone else needs buffs. Their are problems with the base elementalist class that need to be addressed, but those problems are so far off from the problems necros and rangers deal with it shouldn’t be a priority.

Another point is that conditions are still underpowered after all these years. This is evidenced by the fact that no teams take condition builds, no zergs take condition builds, and no speedrun groups take condition builds. You can think they are OP if you want, but the facts tell otherwise.

If there was a trait that made people immune to direct damage above 90% health, the same people that are arguing this shouldn’t get changed would be screaming their lungs out for changes.

Conditions were never underpowered. As long as conditions exist on auto attacks, they’ll continue to be overpowered.

warherox.7943:

Conditions were never underpowered. As long as conditions exist on auto attacks, they’ll continue to be overpowered.

Almost every meta in the history of this game disagrees with you.

Lmfao… Man, it never changes… People still think conditions are overpowered. You guys are so sorely misinformed.

warherox.7943:

Conditions were never underpowered. As long as conditions exist on auto attacks, they’ll continue to be overpowered.

At this point statements like this can be classified as trolling.

lol at “HAVE TO” run cleansing water/wave as if they’re some ten ton burden traits eles need just to stay relevant.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I have hundreds of hours played on my elementalist. I know the trait isn’t OP and that it has many glaring weaknesses; personally, I think it could use a buff or redesign because sitting in Earth to avoid conditions is just tedious and limiting.

(snipped out a lot to avoid clutter) Typo? The one it looks like you’re trying to describe is stone heart and that’s only for crits. Either that or there goes hundreds of hours in earth attunement. Camping earth would only mean you’re losing all the potential boons, attacks, and heals from switching and that wouldn’t be good at all for keeping the trait up and staying alive in general.

Darknicrofia.2604:

lol at “HAVE TO” run cleansing water/wave as if they’re some ten ton burden traits eles need just to stay relevant.

Go ahead and look for any VIABLE Elementalist build in the past few years. Every single one has always had at the very least gone for Healing Ripple and Elemental Attunement. Right now we might be able to get away without using Arcana, but Water is pretty much mandatory unless you’re using a build that’s quite inferior.

Since the Ele has such a small amount of health and Light armor, along with the fact that we lack the disengage potential of the Thief(and the Blinds/Evades which can be properly applied when actually needed…), that makes us really susceptible to Conditions. All our cleansing is in Water, as Ether Renewal is far too vulnerable, so we gotta trait for that. Then, a lot of our burst Healing is also in Water: we get a ~2k Heal every 10 seconds just by switching to Water along with the Regen from the other traits.

Then, we go Arcana for easy Protection and Regen application(which synergizes with Cleansing Water) and Evasive Arcana gives us an extra ~2k Heal, an extra Blast Finisher, etc. Arcana synergizes really well with everything.

So now that we can take Fire without leaving ourselves completely helpless, we can have better Might stacking and Blind on Burn(which is what Fire is actually used for, not just Burning). What you get is a class going mostly into survival(hence why they’re hard to kill) and the ability to Might stack during a fight(which means our chances of winning go up the longer we fight, without losing our survivability).

Well, thanks for the laughs anyways.

Malchior.5732:

Darknicrofia.2604:

lol at “HAVE TO” run cleansing water/wave as if they’re some ten ton burden traits eles need just to stay relevant.

Go ahead and look for any VIABLE Elementalist build in the past few years. Every single one has always had at the very least gone for Healing Ripple and Elemental Attunement. Right now we might be able to get away without using Arcana, but Water is pretty much mandatory unless you’re using a build that’s quite inferior.

Since the Ele has such a small amount of health and Light armor, along with the fact that we lack the disengage potential of the Thief(and the Blinds/Evades which can be properly applied when actually needed…), that makes us really susceptible to Conditions. All our cleansing is in Water, as Ether Renewal is far too vulnerable, so we gotta trait for that. Then, a lot of our burst Healing is also in Water: we get a ~2k Heal every 10 seconds just by switching to Water along with the Regen from the other traits.

Then, we go Arcana for easy Protection and Regen application(which synergizes with Cleansing Water) and Evasive Arcana gives us an extra ~2k Heal, an extra Blast Finisher, etc. Arcana synergizes really well with everything.

So now that we can take Fire without leaving ourselves completely helpless, we can have better Might stacking and Blind on Burn(which is what Fire is actually used for, not just Burning). What you get is a class going mostly into survival(hence why they’re hard to kill) and the ability to Might stack during a fight(which means our chances of winning go up the longer we fight, without losing our survivability).

I get that it sucks that you have to take a few traits to make your builds viable, but at least your classes builds are viable at top tier. To a lot of people who’s mains aren’t as strong in every game mode as ele, complaining about having to take incredibly strong traits and not having any options outside of that is like telling a starving child that your life is hard because you don’t get to eat steak every day but only a burger from Mcdonalds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s a fun fact: before the specialization patch, a Carrion condition necro with 6 points in Spite (so, very high Power for a condition build) using Life Blast (hardest hitting Power skill a condition Necro has access to) would take ~10 seconds (actually 9.8) to break through Diamond Skin on an ele with Signet of Restoration and sitting in water attunement doing nothing but autoattacking. And this is assuming only 100 Healing Power on the ele.

The Ele could literally be AFK and the Necro took that long in a high Power build to break through and be able to apply conditions. This also used up nearly half of their life force, which is difficult to generate on condition Necros anyway and nigh impossible when you can’t get any conditions on your target (as Feast of Corruption doesn’t generate life force on clean targets).

What do you think happens when the Ele actually plays?

Obviously they’d wipe the floor with that necro, and the necro would deserve it for sitting in shroud spamming only Life Blast. In terms of DPS using their normal weapon skills would be far more effective for the necro; with 6 spite and a Carrion amulet (which is my necro’s build, btw), one volley from Ghastly Claws should take the ele under 90% hp. Lich Form could only fail to take an ele under 90% hp if it was the necro who was AFK.

I don’t know who you’re kidding with this line of reasoning, but I’m not falling for it.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think a lot of players actually get confused because the burn-heavy build requires Fire, which means they’re not taking Diamond Skin. But who you fight in matches can sometimes feel like a blur, especially when elementalists are so common in PvP, which can lead to “QQ” fests greatly overstating the capabilities of one build versus another for players that aren’t familiar with the class. Mesmers are dealing with the same problem, where people come onto the forums and cry that they can blind, daze, stealth, burst, and condition spam all under the same build.

I think that would be a fair concern to raise if it actually happened that way for elementalists. As far as my experiences go, the condition complaints are targeted towards the Celestial amulet while the QQ is directed toward Diamond Skin. The two are not mutually exclusive in this… Diamond Skin is the big thing that unskilled players are taking umbrage with.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I have hundreds of hours played on my elementalist. I know the trait isn’t OP and that it has many glaring weaknesses; personally, I think it could use a buff or redesign because sitting in Earth to avoid conditions is just tedious and limiting.

After hundreds of hours on your elementalist I am hoping that you merely mistook Stone Heart for Diamond Skin in this post alone, rather than trying to defend another trait that isn’t in question.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I just think it’s kind of bizarre that OP claims that engineers are “greedy” for running Rabid builds when that’s truthfully the only option we have currently (and power-equivalent builds just as lacking in survivability), and that elementalist has just as much burning access as engineers do.

I honestly don’t see the reason for this line of thought. All it does is serve to demonstrate my point: I opted to go for a build that offered some protection from conditions, while an engineer who QQs about his conditions not working and getting killed because he’s effectively a glass shrapnel-cannon/flamethrower has only himself to blame for not putting any defence in his build.

singinggecko.5736:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I have hundreds of hours played on my elementalist. I know the trait isn’t OP and that it has many glaring weaknesses; personally, I think it could use a buff or redesign because sitting in Earth to avoid conditions is just tedious and limiting.

(snipped out a lot to avoid clutter) Typo? The one it looks like you’re trying to describe is stone heart and that’s only for crits. Either that or there goes hundreds of hours in earth attunement. Camping earth would only mean you’re losing all the potential boons, attacks, and heals from switching and that wouldn’t be good at all for keeping the trait up and staying alive in general.

Yeah, just a mix-up on my part.

Muphry’s Law.

I wish you actually responded to the substance of my post rather than pointing out what was obviously just a mental slip.

Provost.6210:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I just think it’s kind of bizarre that OP claims that engineers are “greedy” for running Rabid builds when that’s truthfully the only option we have currently (and power-equivalent builds just as lacking in survivability), and that elementalist has just as much burning access as engineers do.

I honestly don’t see the reason for this line of thought. All it does is serve to demonstrate my point: I opted to go for a build that offered some protection from conditions, while an engineer who QQs about his conditions not working and getting killed because he’s effectively a glass shrapnel-cannon/flamethrower has only himself to blame for not putting any defence in his build.

I seriously hope you’re joking.

There is nothing on the engineer that comes close to what Diamond Skin does for elementalists. Your survivability in PvP literally boomed. You got Elemental Attunement put to baseline with Evasive Arcana buffed to its PvE value. Elementalists got stacked in this balance patch whereas engineers lost several pivotal traits like Forceful Explosives without buffing their effect to baseline. Many traits are still broken and not working properly, including Automated Medical Response not allowing you to overcharge the Healing Turret—our best heal in PvP and the primary source of our condition cleanse.

Just look at what the Inventions tree gives us compared to what you get traiting into Earth. It’s hilarious. The best trait in the entire line easily reveals you out of Toss Elixir S, leaving you to take Slick Shoes or the Elixir Gun—which means forgoing a safe stomp and what is our only real survivable option in the current state of PvP. Someone felt it was a good idea that taunt interrupts you out of Gear Shield, and more classes will only get access to it when the expansion drops, so we can forget relying on that as well if there’s a ranger around.

Provost.6210:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s a fun fact: before the specialization patch, a Carrion condition necro with 6 points in Spite (so, very high Power for a condition build) using Life Blast (hardest hitting Power skill a condition Necro has access to) would take ~10 seconds (actually 9.8) to break through Diamond Skin on an ele with Signet of Restoration and sitting in water attunement doing nothing but autoattacking. And this is assuming only 100 Healing Power on the ele.

The Ele could literally be AFK and the Necro took that long in a high Power build to break through and be able to apply conditions. This also used up nearly half of their life force, which is difficult to generate on condition Necros anyway and nigh impossible when you can’t get any conditions on your target (as Feast of Corruption doesn’t generate life force on clean targets).

What do you think happens when the Ele actually plays?

Obviously they’d wipe the floor with that necro, and the necro would deserve it for sitting in shroud spamming only Life Blast. In terms of DPS using their normal weapon skills would be far more effective for the necro; with 6 spite and a Carrion amulet (which is my necro’s build, btw), one volley from Ghastly Claws should take the ele under 90% hp. Lich Form could only fail to take an ele under 90% hp if it was the necro who was AFK.

I don’t know who you’re kidding with this line of reasoning, but I’m not falling for it.

…you’re running Axe on a condition build? Did I stutter and say this was Power? No, I said it was a condition build with a high amount of Power. Technically a hybrid build, really. It was also using it’s strongest direct damage option.

So, if a condition Necro build with a high Power stat using its highest DPS direct damage option can’t break through the Diamond Skin of an AFK ele, don’t you think something might be a bit off? Perhaps the counterplay to this trait doesn’t actually exist and it gives the ele an auto-win against multiple builds without those builds even having the ability to out-play?

Lich Form really shouldn’t even be brought up, since it can be fully countered by repeatedly pressing “A” and “D”.

Until recently, Axe had no place on a condition build. Now it does, but it’s still bad.

Provost.6210:

1. Elementalists have the lowest health pool and weakest armour. Even with vitality runes, the threshold an elementalist has to keep themselves immune from conditions is a maximum of about 2,500 hp. After that, they’re under 90% hp and vulnerable to conditions. If you can’t deal that much damage, then Diamond Skin is not the problem.

I stopped reading after this. If you open with such a logical ducey then I don’t expect the rest of you post to be of any more worth.

Just read through it again… do you see the problem?

An ele complaining….

that’s just….wow…

As an ele you need to realize you play the most broken class in this game since 1 year ago so i don’t think you have ANY right to complain…about anything…at all

Just slap on your celestial amulet and go faceroll people…and, for the love of god, stop whining…at a barely decent level you’re pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 on point (Even vs people with way higher skill than you), you have one of the best team support in the game, good mobility, nonsense sustain, tons of burning, decent direct dmg, good condi dmg, almost permavigor, prot and regen, invulnerability, teleport, cc, indecent condi cleanse and can disengage and refull in seconds…jusus christ, you can trait to kittening aoe remove burning and chill with just one random dodge…and you’re plenty of dodges..

shall i continue?

Oh and no, ele is not forced to run celestial…marauder fresh air with blind on burning is freakin’ nonsense too…some classes can’t even try to engage a fresh air after last patch it only lacks the support that celestial d/d gives and that’s why it’s not meta but on the braindead scale is almost at same level…just air auto, burst, invuln (And projectile block) with heal if needed, rinse and repeat..

Just try to do like all other eles do…enjoy your broken crap in silence but please, please don’t even try to explain why ele shouldn’t be considered op, i don’t know where are you coming from, if pve, zerg vs zerg or whatever but…just…don’t…

My picture from cele ele says hello to you…

Archaon.9524:

An ele complaining….

that’s just….wow…

As an ele you need to realize you play the most broken class in this game since 1 year ago so i don’t think you have ANY right to complain…about anything…at all

Just slap on your celestial amulet and go faceroll people…and, for the love of god, stop whining…at a barely decent level you’re pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 on point (Even vs people with way higher skill than you), you have one of the best team support in the game, good mobility, nonsense sustain, tons of burning, decent direct dmg, good condi dmg, almost permavigor, prot and regen, invulnerability, teleport, cc, indecent condi cleanse and can disengage and refull in seconds…jusus christ, you can trait to kittening aoe remove burning and chill with just one random dodge…and you’re plenty of dodges..

shall i continue?

Oh and no, ele is not forced to run celestial…marauder fresh air with blind on burning is freakin’ nonsense too…some classes can’t even try to engage a fresh air after last patch it only lacks the support that celestial d/d gives and that’s why it’s not meta but on the braindead scale is almost at same level…just air auto, burst, invuln (And projectile block) with heal if needed, rinse and repeat..

Just try to do like all other eles do…enjoy your broken crap in silence but please, please don’t even try to explain why ele shouldn’t be considered op, i don’t know where are you coming from, if pve, zerg vs zerg or whatever but…just…don’t…

Hmm interesting…marauder fresh air with blinding ashes…sounds strong.

while i kittening hate d/d ele’s with a passion, i agree with most everything you said.

Phineas Poe.3018:

You got Elemental Attunement put to baseline with Evasive Arcana buffed to its PvE value.

I’m sorry, but I just gotta correct this:

Elemental Attunement is NOT baseline. It’s now a Minor trait, but it’s not something that comes naturally. We still need to go into Arcana to get it. All we gained in Arcana was nerfed Vigor application and Elemental Contingency…hardly a benefit.
What we actually got from this patch was a much stronger Fire line and ability to trait for it. Our survivability is really good, because we pretty much have all of it traited :L
Water/Arcana is almost purely about survival(Evasive Arcana has a few offensive applications, but nothing major) so all of our real damage comes from Burn stacking, which should be toned down in general, and our ability to Might stack, which is supplemented by the Fire line and is pretty much the only way the Cele D/D build can kill anything in a reasonable amount of time.

That build has always been about outsustaining and Might stacking; is it too strong now? If it is, then what do you nerf without making us useless again? I say, tone down the Burning(as a condition, not on how much Ele can apply) and go from there, but this topic is about Diamond Skin, right? DS is a poorly designed pile of crap.
Like I said, it hard counters a certain amount of amulets and is completely useless against everything else. It’d be better, not just for Condition players, but also Elementalists, if it did something else that helped us deal with Conditions without having to spec into Water and promoted more active play. Actually, if they gave us sustain/cleansing in our other lines, we could actually nerf Water’s sustain/cleansing a bit, but I don’t really trust Anet with that careful balance.

lighter.2708:

indeed, 8k fire grab on a celestial that can also apply tons of burning is not op.

Lighter you are a great warrior and I respect you, but if I dueled your warrior on my Elementalist using a celestial amulet, chose the fire trait line which can give me 10% more damage in the fire attunement and 10% more dmg vs a burning target and chose the burning fire trait which allowed me to stack up to 25 might when using cantrips, I probably still would not hit you for 8k with a crit on fire grab, even if you chose the most squishy build I still doubt it. Probably around 6.5k at most and more realistically around ~5.6k with a nice crit and heavy might stacks. Lets not forget if the Elementalist was to even trip over a tiny pebble he may miss that said fire grab since the hit box is very tiny. 8-10k fire grab crits are more than likely marauder or zerker status.

IMO Elementalist damage will be where it should be once burning is toned down. Warriors need a buff IMO.

@OP
You’re forgetting the biggest headline of people’s QQ, DS has 0 counterplay to it. It kills Carrion/Rabid/Settler builds. There is no other trait like it in the game. Heck, even PU Mesmers have bigger counterplay.. at least I can attempt to attack a stealthed Mesmer or throw out some AoE effects on them. Or better yet, outplaying a Celestial Ele, which I have before. Diamond Skin Eles? No such counterplay if you’re condi. If the Ele has have half a brain then you will not deliver an ounce of damage.

Lowest health pools and weakest armor? I’ll gladly sacrifice my Guardian’s armor and 11.6k/20k health pool for your 11k/17k HP, mobility and high Protection/Regen/Heal upkeep. “We deserve it” excuse doesn’t help your argument. No one deserves a trait that can utterly counter a persons playstyle. Again, no other trait has the same effect as Diamond Skin.

I +1ed, but you are wrong in that every class is OP. Rangers and Necros say hello. Thieves, Warriors and Engineer are in a decent place. Overall dps is OP among all classes must be what you’re referring to.

Maybe my opinion is biased though as I’m looking through my purple butterfly tinted glasses…

I can play DD celestial ele.

It is my go-to class when everything else fails.
It is my go-to build when I feel too lazy to die.

It is not my main and I am average at best.

Mesmers get on my nerves when I go against them….especially teamed ones that go out of their way to intentionally look alike (yes it’s true, they exist, was a team of 3)

But with mesmers around, at least there are 2 dominant classes. If mesmers get nerfed but eles don’t, it will be a sad day for pvp. Neither one of these I main. Just saying for the sake of PvP as a whole.

So eles are fine where they are. Not only are they fine, but they are ahead of the pack.

Saiyan.1704:

@OP
You’re forgetting the biggest headline of people’s QQ, DS has 0 counterplay to it. It kills Carrion/Rabid/Settler builds. There is no other trait like it in the game. Heck, even PU Mesmers have bigger counterplay.. at least I can attempt to attack a stealthed Mesmer or throw out some AoE effects on them. Or better yet, outplaying a Celestial Ele, which I have before. Diamond Skin Eles? No such counterplay if you’re condi. If the Ele has have half a brain then you will not deliver an ounce of damage.

Lowest health pools and weakest armor? I’ll gladly sacrifice my Guardian’s armor and 11.6k/20k health pool for your 11k/17k HP, mobility and high Protection/Regen/Heal upkeep. “We deserve it” excuse doesn’t help your argument. No one deserves a trait that can utterly counter a persons playstyle. Again, no other trait has the same effect as Diamond Skin.

You should play a ranger and go against a condi guardian that should make you realize how biased you are….

And besides, I’ve never faced a Diamond Skin ele that was on the winning team. I don’t think it’s an extremely strong trait with the 90% threshold…

MailMail.6534:

And besides, I’ve never faced a Diamond Skin ele that was on the winning team. I don’t think it’s an extremely strong trait with the 90% threshold…

It’s weak because it’s godkitten useless against most builds. It’s only good against pure condi.

Malchior.5732:

MailMail.6534:

And besides, I’ve never faced a Diamond Skin ele that was on the winning team. I don’t think it’s an extremely strong trait with the 90% threshold…

It’s weak because it’s godkitten useless against most builds. It’s only good against pure condi.

Correction, it’s only good against pure condi if they are 1v1ing them uninterrupted.

When i read the title, I thought it was about Death Shroud. I’m a teensy bit disappointed now.

Have you ever thought about that a lot of people who want Diamond skin to be reworked actually do not think that trait is op, but have different reasons for it? Have you also thought about the fact that it could be buffed, so it can compete with Stone heart and is not completely useless against non-condi builds, but will alow counterplay for builds that are based on condi. Currently even if you play well on such builds, there’s nothing you can do because Diamond skin is simply badly designed. It’s clear you’ve never faced a DS ele on necro for example, then you would have known that even getting through the 2K hp is not something easy with how much sustain such ele has.

I mostly play ele, but I simply don’t want traits with no counterplay in game.

OMFG eles are fine. Leave eles alone. Mesmer OP. ktnxbye. xoxoxo

Laraley.7695:

Have you ever thought about that a lot of people who want Diamond skin to be reworked actually do not think that trait is op, but have different reasons for it? Have you also thought about the fact that it could be buffed, so it can compete with Stone heart and is not completely useless against non-condi builds, but will alow counterplay for builds that are based on condi. Currently even if you play well on such builds, there’s nothing you can do because Diamond skin is simply badly designed. It’s clear you’ve never faced a DS ele on necro for example, then you would have known that even getting through the 2K hp is not something easy with how much sustain such ele has.

I mostly play ele, but I simply don’t want traits with no counterplay in game.

Yeah you should play necro before talking about one, on a cele signet necro…a life blast will crit for up to 3k dmg and that’s only lifeblast, with dagger you can stack up to 20 mights in few secs and there still passive/active condi transfer and can still drop ghost armor for even more boon strip ( corrupt boon)…

Pls do tell me how I can struggle against cele ele on a cele necro…..

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Have you ever thought about that a lot of people who want Diamond skin to be reworked actually do not think that trait is op, but have different reasons for it? Have you also thought about the fact that it could be buffed, so it can compete with Stone heart and is not completely useless against non-condi builds, but will alow counterplay for builds that are based on condi. Currently even if you play well on such builds, there’s nothing you can do because Diamond skin is simply badly designed. It’s clear you’ve never faced a DS ele on necro for example, then you would have known that even getting through the 2K hp is not something easy with how much sustain such ele has.

I mostly play ele, but I simply don’t want traits with no counterplay in game.

Yeah you should play necro before talking about one, on a cele signet necro…a life blast will crit for up to 3k dmg and that’s only lifeblast, with dagger you can stack up to 20 mights in few secs and there still passive/active condi transfer and can still drop ghost armor for even more boon strip ( corrupt boon)…

Pls do tell me how I can struggle against cele ele on a cele necro…..

That’s cele necro, not condition necro and has nothing to do with the fact rabid and carrion necro is countered by DS.

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Have you ever thought about that a lot of people who want Diamond skin to be reworked actually do not think that trait is op, but have different reasons for it? Have you also thought about the fact that it could be buffed, so it can compete with Stone heart and is not completely useless against non-condi builds, but will alow counterplay for builds that are based on condi. Currently even if you play well on such builds, there’s nothing you can do because Diamond skin is simply badly designed. It’s clear you’ve never faced a DS ele on necro for example, then you would have known that even getting through the 2K hp is not something easy with how much sustain such ele has.

I mostly play ele, but I simply don’t want traits with no counterplay in game.

Yeah you should play necro before talking about one, on a cele signet necro…a life blast will crit for up to 3k dmg and that’s only lifeblast, with dagger you can stack up to 20 mights in few secs and there still passive/active condi transfer and can still drop ghost armor for even more boon strip ( corrupt boon)…

Pls do tell me how I can struggle against cele ele on a cele necro…..

That’s cele necro, not condition necro and has nothing to do with the fact rabid and carrion necro is countered by DS.

You specified necro and not a carrion or rabid necro so stick to your words for once! You talked like the whole class get countered by DS and this is something anybody sensible enough knows to be BS.

You play a cele necro to minimize the number of counters, you play a hybrid build!

You play a pure condi build and you drop the damage/sustain of cele for even more condi pressure, your build is not flexible anymore…you will, must be hard countered somehow…it’s called logic!

Remember when engineer had a similar trait that only triggered below 25% leaving you vulnerable to conditions applied before activation? A trait that only had minus 100% duration instead of immunity? What ever happened to that trait and what was the reasoning for it?

Bog.5893:

Remember when engineer had a similar trait that only triggered below 25% leaving you vulnerable to conditions applied before activation? A trait that only had minus 100% duration instead of immunity? What ever happened to that trait and what was the reasoning for it?

Comparing DS to automated response? Are you nut?
Do you see anyone using DS outside hotjoin matches? Do please find me the evidence…seriously people that struggle against DS have huge, HUGE L2P issues.

Provost.6210:

Since the recent patch, I have witnessed the GW2 community sink to an all-time low. I’m referring specifically to all the would-be semi-pro condition-spamming menaces turning the waterworks up to 11 about Diamond Skin.

Necromancers and engineers are, by far, the worst for this in my experience, but generally anyone with a notion to load up their PvP build with nothing but condition damage/duration and faceroll the whole competitive scene has invariably come to the forums and whined about this trait.

I didn’t make this to call you hypocrites, but I’d like to provide a sober perspective by pointing out exactly why you are the last people to be complaining about builds.

1. Elementalists have the lowest health pool and weakest armour. Even with vitality runes, the threshold an elementalist has to keep themselves immune from conditions is a maximum of about 2,500 hp. After that, they’re under 90% hp and vulnerable to conditions. If you can’t deal that much damage, then Diamond Skin is not the problem.
2. Because elementalist burst damage has been severely nerfed, forcing eles to run celestial if they want to have any combat versatility, the effective maximum threshold you have to deal with is approximately 1,800 hp before they’re under 90%.
3. Conditions are handed out like kittening candy. Even with Diamond Skin, elementalists have to run traits like Cleansing Wave and Cleansing Water, or at least one condition cleansing utility just to keep up with the application of conditions when they are under the 90% threshold.
4. The loudest QQers about this are the people who have eschewed vitality/toughness gear in favour of more condition damage and more precision. If an ele ran that set up they’d have 11k health and wouldn’t survive an angry glance from a half-decent mesmer. Frankly, you deserve to be punished for your greed and arrogance.

Additionally, many threads complaining about this trait have arguments along the lines of “elementalists are OP now”. I’d like to clarify what the actual situation is. Every class is OP now. It just so happens that a significant cross-section of the player base that is more skilled than you are really enjoys playing elementalist because it is the most engaging class. Because every class is OP, they can go back to their elementalist and be on a more even playing field than ever before. You’re getting stomped as much as you would if elementalists weren’t in the game, it’s just that more of the people stomping you are on their eles than they have been at any point since the game came out.

In closing, I heartily suggest that you learn how to play.

Please feel free to respond with your own thoughts.

Regards,
An ele

You got it all right there. Thanks.

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Have you ever thought about that a lot of people who want Diamond skin to be reworked actually do not think that trait is op, but have different reasons for it? Have you also thought about the fact that it could be buffed, so it can compete with Stone heart and is not completely useless against non-condi builds, but will alow counterplay for builds that are based on condi. Currently even if you play well on such builds, there’s nothing you can do because Diamond skin is simply badly designed. It’s clear you’ve never faced a DS ele on necro for example, then you would have known that even getting through the 2K hp is not something easy with how much sustain such ele has.

I mostly play ele, but I simply don’t want traits with no counterplay in game.

Yeah you should play necro before talking about one, on a cele signet necro…a life blast will crit for up to 3k dmg and that’s only lifeblast, with dagger you can stack up to 20 mights in few secs and there still passive/active condi transfer and can still drop ghost armor for even more boon strip ( corrupt boon)…

Pls do tell me how I can struggle against cele ele on a cele necro…..

That’s cele necro, not condition necro and has nothing to do with the fact rabid and carrion necro is countered by DS.

You specified necro and not a carrion or rabid necro so stick to your words for once! You talked like the whole class get countered by DS and this is something anybody sensible enough knows to be BS.

You play a cele necro to minimize the number of counters, you play a hybrid build!

You play a pure condi build and you drop the damage/sustain of cele for even more condi pressure, your build is not flexible anymore…you will, must be hard countered somehow…it’s called logic!

Maybe read the post again, I was talking about condition builds, you’re just focusing on words that suits your argument. I’m done replying to you since you only want to argue. It was clear what I meant.

Apart from that cele necro and condi necro are two completely different builds, it’s like telling someone who wants to play mediguard, but has issues with survability to play bunker. Seriously, stop with these ridiculous arguments. Have a nice day, sir.

Are u guys telling me there are actually elementalists running this trait in spvp?!

atreyu.9624:

Are u guys telling me there are actually elementalists running this trait in spvp?!

YES! And based on my experienced, they lose most of their matches.