Guild Wars 2

#buggedforum

kuromisa.3516:

Hi, first time on the forums. I want to ask the rate of success in completing Mai Trin’s final fractal boss as I’ve had a few occasions pugging where people die too often at the Cannon AOE dodging part.

So far, this has happened three times to me.

The first time was I’d be the last one standing by the end of the third cannon AOE phase where I then fall victim to Mai Trin at some point in the fight. We tried 3 times where the party keeps dying at that part until the party leader rage-quitted (He died all the time btw) wasting a lot of my time trying to level up in Fractals.

The second time was when again people dying to the cannons until just the 2nd phase where the party leader (different pug) went AFK and ofc died. Of course two party members kicked him resulting in us getting booted from the fractals and again wasting my time.

Third time, myself and another dude from the party managed to stay alive. We had 3 attempts until we did finish. Nevertheless it was slow and tedious because of some players not really playing their part in the dungeon, ie just dodging and staying alive for the duration of the fractal.

Personally I don’t think dodging those cannon AOE is hard, just right timing but it seems that people are kittenly bad at dodging.

Am I to expect behaviour like this in the higher level fractals as well? (We were in 14 both times)Or am I just having bad luck with bad PUGS
And it seems that the party leader leaving issue has still not yet be resolved.

Any sort of answer or advice to delegate this frustrating issue is welcome.

Apologies for my terrible English, it is not my first language.

FWIW — I’ve also had poor luck with this on lower levels.

It’s generally not hard been hard for me on higher levels with a good team — but I’m not good enough to solo Mai Trin, so if the rest of the team is down I’m probably going down too once I run out of condition cleansing and blocks.

OTOH, watching the mesmer solo posted recently made me want to see if I can learn her tells well enough … the number of blocks on the mesmer skill bar might make it easier, but it should be possible with guardian, assuming I can do a better job using blocks and moving to conserve dodges.

This boss sucks period! We spent 4 hours in a lv 19 fractal just trying to beat her. We rather have dredge (which we can do rather fast) then this kitten. You get stuck once or in a bad spot, you are done! Total wipe everyone!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

This boss sucks period! We spent 4 hours in a lv 19 fractal just trying to beat her. We rather have dredge (which we can do rather fast) then this kitten. You get stuck once or in a bad spot, you are done! Total wipe everyone!

relevant: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/01/06

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

This boss sucks period! We spent 4 hours in a lv 19 fractal just trying to beat her. We rather have dredge (which we can do rather fast) then this kitten. You get stuck once or in a bad spot, you are done! Total wipe everyone!

did you try equipping something non zerker?
In this case even at 50 damage is low enough to be able to be hit many times before dying (4-5).

But most of all remember that if you split the party in 5 (each player stays in 1/5 of the stage) you get 1/5 Attacks durring cannons.

For may trinn phase just use condition cleanse..

Well I’m very familiar with your experience, either groups go down in the bomb phase or they are typically bad at positioning mai trin.

When they go down in the cannon phase, you need to work out a ress strategy for your class. On my elementalist I usually summon an earth elemental to grab aggro and chain projectile defenses, dodges and blocking skills while ressing. Alternatively at lower lvs I can solo her and in general I will opt for that option if she is at 25% health.

When ressing or soloing her, remember to block/reflect/destroy her pistol shot ( really easy tell, she faces towards you and aims her pistol for a few seconds). Save your dodges for the pistol spin, if your ressing they are easy to dodge since you see them comming. If you are soloing, the spin shot is more troublesome, since its harder to read the tell and react properly at close range.

To position her properly the most important thing is every body has to melee range her when hork is about to fire the electric shot. Once her stacks are down you can max melee kite her or play more offensively depending on the amount of party wide conditional removal.

I think the tips have already come through.

I would say all different professions would be able to solo her, here is a Elementalist Solo of it

aaaand i don t like those videos because they are not of any help and would have you booted on sight if you tried to apply them in a party situation ._.

LordByron.8369:

aaaand i don t like those videos because they are not of any help and would have you booted on sight if you tried to apply them in a party situation ._.

How are they not any help? I think they are very helpful for learning how to deal with the fight.

if you solo you have a different tactic…
In 5 you can spread to get less cannons aoe, stand still, wait for aoe and slightly move in the free spots.

on solo you should run around the stage because:
- you get 5X (maybe less but sillmore than party) aoes on you
- you don t get people behind you killed by your aoes

In solo you can manage better the boss and can kite her in the aoes.

Its completely a different tactic.

Only the cannon phase is different.

The rest is the same except easier because aggro switches. But requires the group to stay close to each other to remove stacks faster.

Its the same either way. And watching a solo shows you exactly what you can do to deal with each attack and each situation where things go a bit wrong. Example: I didnt know about the ring of earth projectile block until i watched particulars solo video.

Also these videos show players the timing on when to dodge or activate a block correctly. And help them learn tells. They are helpful no matter how you look at it.

LordByron.8369:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

This boss sucks period! We spent 4 hours in a lv 19 fractal just trying to beat her. We rather have dredge (which we can do rather fast) then this kitten. You get stuck once or in a bad spot, you are done! Total wipe everyone!

did you try equipping something non zerker?
In this case even at 50 damage is low enough to be able to be hit many times before dying (4-5).

But most of all remember that if you split the party in 5 (each player stays in 1/5 of the stage) you get 1/5 Attacks durring cannons.

For may trinn phase just use condition cleanse..

I wore anything but my zerker set ( and I have 4 unique exotic sets) this was fractal lv 19 mind you. I had to go back and repair 3 of my 4 sets (zerker was my last set) my trinkets are zerker only with 20 kitten t to them (one trinket is missing a +5 piece and my back is till exotic). Agony wasn’t an issue it was her always going after me and the cannons phase killing us all, also the 16 stack bleed.

Granted this was a pug group, but after 30 deaths (and 3-4 hours in the fractal) I managed to kill her on downed mode.

I really hate this boss no matter how good anyone is or I will be.

I’m traited to 30 water. Everything else is 10 with blasting staff and fury on each attune change.

After reading the tips, I know better not to run for my life and stay closer to her. Still doesn’t help I’m an ele.

BTW, I have two soldier sets 1 zerker, 1 knight’s and now a rampager set.

My machine sucks So I can’t see tells. I have to hope someone else blocks her or she goes into cannon mode with us at high enough health to not lose anyone.

If you can’t see boss tells, you’re gonna have a bad time.

The cannons kitten on me most of the time, LagOPplzNERF

maxinion.8396:

If you can’t see boss tells, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

After reading the tips, I know better not to run for my life and stay closer to her. Still doesn’t help I’m an ele.

OOOook
You should ve said this before..

Equip a focus…(remember also that earth 4 cleans conditions).

Mistform
arcane shield
Signet of speed or conjured shield (skill 5 another invul).

Stay far from other players during cannon phase.

If they die start ressing and as the animation started pop up any of your invulnerabilities (mistform etc) since they won t break the ress or use air 4 before ressing..

When you are on CD pop up an elemental and kite a little…repeat.

You can actually ress all pugs…..

P.S. if you can t see the boss tells just be sure to not be the farthest…she Always go for the farthest.

People seriously believe that Mai Trin is a difficult fight?

Well, it’s hard for zerkers. If you play with support characters it becomes much easier.

I wonder if unblockable/undodgeable skills + time-gated events/unskippable cutscenes will be their way to go in the future?

FenrirSlakt.3692:

People seriously believe that Mai Trin is a difficult fight?

With a good group, it’s not hard. I’ve just had lots of frustrating encounters against her at low levels with PUGs where they:

• bring cannon barrage to me when I’m out of dodges/invuln

• kite her away from the electrical fields until I’ve used most of my condition cleanses

… it’s particularly frustrating to fail after the 3rd barrage, and have to start over.

That said, with a decent group — not so hard, just longer than duo and more susceptible to wipe/reset than maw.

haviz.1340:

Well, it’s hard for zerkers. If you play with support characters it becomes much easier.

This. Try Mai Trin with 2 shout condi removal guards, thank me later.

haviz.1340:

Well, it’s hard for bad players. If you play with good players becomes much easier.

Corrected for you. Welcome.

edit: I know, sarcasm, but you know … before someone takes it seriously.

20, 25, 0, 0, 25,
support guard right??

(( runs off to go double check his numbers))

I saw a run recently where the PUG players put up missile defense to stop Horrick’s rockets landing. Now that made it a hard fight!

Before telling people how bad they are, remember how much did it take story at taumanova reactor the day it was released….
People spent hours in there…..

That s because there wasn t a dulfy guide….

We spent a while in there simply because it was bugged xD.

Spoj The Second.7680:

We spent a while in there simply because it was bugged xD.

^This.
If you died, there was no respawn.

LordByron.8369:

Before telling people how bad they are, remember how much did it take story at taumanova reactor the day it was released….
People spent hours in there…..

That s because there wasn t a dulfy guide….

That’s because it was bugged. Anet released the instance without a waypoint. Such QA, very quality, so advance.
And certain people are bad even if you tell them what to do. Remember to … well … Any content for that matter.

Also there was a bug where you would kill the end boss and nothing would happen. So you had to restart.

^— That happened to us, after more than two hours of trying to kill him.
xD

well so you knew the switch position in the labyrint you did with 3 people while a warrior soloed the radiation part?

You never died in the process and clearly knew saving technicians would debuff boss?

You are really smart….or you are neo and can read the code because there was a severe lack of clues as in swamp fractal.

We had to work it out and it took a reasonable amount of time (mostly because we had to go char select to res) but not hours. The switch part and radiation part were really obvious to work out. And the lab event wasnt available in the storymode.

Im sure lots of people took forever to complete it. But it wasnt that bad for some of us. We had to do it 3 times because of the bug where nothing happened after the boss died.

In map chat at LA and not only there, it seemed that most people didn t knew what to do….
On the forum, on reddit etc you would see the same.

Issue is mechanics are unclear.

Inthis case, following Mai mechanics are not clear:
1) the aura ._. where is written you have to kill her 1st? and how?
2) the ranged attack, a flashy unavoidable attack that appears only when the real one already hit….also the targeting of the farthest person every time.
3) cannons…how can you guess they are spread amongst players?

and many more….
If you ignore even few of those you are going to struggle.
As you learn them its easy….

LordByron.8369:

As you learn them its easy…

… and we have a winner!

That’s the thing in most games. People at first don’t know what to do, but then they learn after repeated attempts. The problem is that a large majority of players is too lazy/mediocre for that.

I’ve noticed a pattern so far and it goes like this:

1. Attempt to faceroll encounter.
2. Fail encounter and learn nothing from it.
3. Repeat step number one and two a few more times.
4. Complain on forums over and over.
5. Get carried by a team of good/decent players and still learn nothing from it and forget about the issue.
6. Repeat step number five as often as possible. If not applicable, then refer to steps one, two and four.

7. warbanner.

deSade.9437:

7. warbanner.

but deSade, why slot a potential lifesaver Elite skill that also grants you and your party Might, Fury and Swiftness when you can have one that gives those bonuses only to you? That reasoning makes too much sense, man.
That, and Warbanner is not a signet.

But I have Signet Mastery…

The question is why would you take banner when its un-needed and perma swiftness is more useful.

Spoj The Second.7680:

The question is why would you take banner when its un-needed and perma swiftness is more useful.

I always take banner when pugging out of sheer distrust.

Better have it and not need it than need it and not have it; I can take Warrior’s Sprint to compensate the lack of swiftness too if appropriate.

Spoj The Second.7680:

The question is why would you take banner when its un-needed and perma swiftness is more useful.

In fact, you need at least 2, 3 if Sam is griefing me.
I’ll remember dis if I’ll play my new warr and you’ll be in need of a ress like me :<

Ugh, I love having to spend the whole night to [bandaid] “fix” connection problems. Tho I’m pretty sure none of you missed me while I was scrambling to get internetz back <.<

FenrirSlakt.3692:

LordByron.8369:

As you learn them its easy…

… and we have a winner!

That’s the thing in most games. People at first don’t know what to do, but then they learn after repeated attempts. The problem is that a large majority of players is too lazy/mediocre for that.
.

No sad to tell it but In good games the challenge remains as costant as possible

Here turns from 100 to 0 in 2 runs.

And the “fixes” expecially in fractal aggravate the issue since they remove most alternative tactics leaving just 1 viable.

That is the reason why from release we have people complaining of impossible dungeons and other people complaining of dungeon too easy….

Its nice to see how on release each fractal had many way to be completed and you often changed tactic each run while today they just removed all but 1….

Name one fractal fix that removed “alternative” tactics.

Except maybe Tom. Didn’t really remove any tactics though.

edit: actually one more in that one but it just forces more than 1 person to not be terrible. and maybe not even that but haven’t run thief to try it.

edit2: and thaumanova was never hard, long or confusing. think our first run was like 10m longer and that was mostly disappearing platforms combined with no ooc retry forcing me to solo it.

Dredge removed JP, removed Death on panel, removed karma items, added spawns to hinder stealth…
Removed the “unsafe spot” (required coordination to the point of being arguably harder than normal) on the tower, removed pulling dredges out of the room (its not different at all pulling boss on the wall), made champion attack unblockable, changed final bosses 4 times to ensure players to play yin the most boring way (reflect used to work as a reflect for example and not like an absorb…).

Ascalon changed NPC AI 4 times to make the fractal annoying + buffed most Attacks in order to be oneshots without proper tell (expecially fighting a lot of mobs).
Cliffside Changed the boss 3 times and the chest seal removing 3 tactics
Swamp: the mesmer trick was OFFICIALLY legit and required to not be downed having 1 less utility at disposal.
Jade maw well i shouldn t even list the useless changes here…but the most useless goes to the fact that Killing tentacles doesn t hurt th eboss anymnore

just the first i remember….

I said name them.

Ascalon is still yolokill everything if you want to.
Dredge is a joke to even bring up. Learn the proper way and exploit later.
Same for cliffside. (removing 3 tactic?)
Snowblind I’m not entirely sure so I’ll give you that one even though you didn’t name it.

Frozen Maw is a location in Wayfarer Foothills.

edit: tldr they made some things less convenient but tactics are still the same. gotcha.

You seem to have done the 2 most common mistake on this board:

1) forgetting what you were discussing (hint: difficulty wasn t the topic, longevity and freedom of tactic was)
2) judging players without any hint of their experience but most of all without any reason….(i don t happen to fail a fractal since a loooong time despite pugging 99% of times).

I really love how the same sort of players first claim skipping is good because it gives freedom, and then when people promotes the same arguments they answer “you have to do like this!!!! L2P”

LordByron.8369:

And the “fixes” expecially in fractal aggravate the issue since they remove most alternative tactics leaving just 1 viable.

dredge puzzle fixed / arah puzzle fixed (sort of). not an “alternative” tactic
archdiviner fixed / alphard fixed (and made pretty darn stupid) breaking a boss is not an “alternative” tactic it’s a abuse of kittenty programming.

reflect on dredge boss – less dmg. no change in tactic.
npc ai while annoying doesn’t really change anything. refer to yolokill above.

and to be fair. I’m not underestimating your fractal experience. If I had to guess you probably have run them 100x the amount I have. Maybe more. That’s why your statements confuse me.

I consider those tactic changes in fairness. Even if the old tactics were more exploity they were still different.

Clearing rabsovich and the dredge mine cart is the one thats changed the most. It went from exploiting on wheels to LoSing out of the room (semi legit) to LoSing to pipes (fully legit) to pulling and using CC to get rabsovich onto the wall while hoping that you dont pull another group of dredge from the clown car. Dont know why they felt the need to remove the pipes. There was nothing exploity about them and it was actually dangerous to stay there after clearing the initial group because it was hard to see rabsovich’s attack.

The general tactic of pulling the first group and champ remained pretty much the same but the approach is constantly changed. I still consider that a change in tactics no matter how trivial.

I actually used to vary depending on pug groups..
That made fotm less repetitive.

What i would ask to dev is:
What benefit did those change have?

Since the answer is possibly 0, they just worked to make fractal less fun.