Guild Wars 2

Just ruined the last type of content I was rarely able to bring myself to play in this game. Just the possibility that my entire pug fractal run will be an even worse waste of time due to forcing a requirement for “tanking” gear on the Mai Trin encounter!?! This is on top of the horrible reward rate/rng. I can’t understand why anyone would even want to play this one-shot garbage…when they go out of their way to make sure the only way to reliably succeed is to wear toughness/healing gear. There is no excitement or thrill in that….I’ll pass.

ODB.6891:

when they go out of their way to make sure the only way to reliably succeed is to wear toughness/healing gear.

Tanky gear will just help you a bit, but I’m sure you will still get one-shotted @ level 49/50 even with it. So I’d say its not just about gear/spec there.

What was wrong with Mai Trin anet? out of all the fotms Ive been in from all levels of 19-50, she was already scalled well, she was by far the most wiped on for pug groups compare to the others.

PuG’d it during a 40 daily today just before the reset. Did about two test runs to see how the mechanics changed, and another two actual runs to get her down. It wasn’t easy, but it also wasn’t the end of the world like some people seem to be suggesting.

Bring slows/reflect/blocks and just kite her around the room. Electric Blast isn’t difficult to dodge (it’s slooow) and try to have someone with plenty of blocking options tank her or figure out a rotation for alternating reflect/block cooldowns.

Having said that, it is a pretty unforgiving fight if you end up going down. If Horrik happens to decide that he wants to fire on you when you are down, you are pretty much guaranteed to eat dirt.

I’m not really happy with the Mai Trin changes. She was already the fight everyone seemed to struggle on, now at scale 10 and 11 she’s dealing as much damage as she was dealing in the mid 40s. Doesn’t really make sense. Now you have a 33% chance of having a 2 hour run or a fail run in low scales. It’s getting hard to even fill a group there already. Her difficulty is so far and above every other thing in every other fractal at lower scales, there’s nothing to prepare you for her. If you’re going to make her into a hydrogen bomb on scale 11 make the rest of the fractals that hard so we stop hitting bricks walls. I just had around a 35 attempt Mai Trin on scale 10, we had to have the entire group swap to some kind of heal spec and we still had trouble keeping up witht her damage output. No one even got hit by a mechanic up to that point. No one was dying to cannons, it was just her and horek near OHKing everyone. I’m not one to say make things easy just for the sake of things being easy, but come on, the power curve could at least be stable. If you put mai trin on a line graph for damage output happening from every other fractal sub 34 and her, it would make almost a 90 degree angle.

Isn’t she the most difficult of the 3? What’s the justification in making her more difficult while leaving the other 2 untouched?

I stopped running fractals months ago purely because fighting this boss with newbie pugs was bad enough. I just don’t understand why it should be more difficult.

can we have a video of anet completing the fractal please?

MysticHLE.7160:

I think the fact that her pistol shot cannot be evaded (and require block/reflect) is utter BS, and should be looked into. I really cannot think of any other attacks in PvE where evade does not work.

CytoSlide – yeah, I hear you. With this new change, I think builds will just need to be re-evaluated though – more towards utility instead of dps.

- Elementalist: Focus Air 4 can cancel her shot, Focus Earth 5 can tank the hit, and Earth 4 can (probably) reflect?
- Warrior: Mace 2, Sword 5, and Shield 5 all can block her shots. These can even be traited for reflects, making the warrior a better dedicated pistol shot blocker/reflector than Mesmers!
- Guardian: Aegis, Wall of Reflection, Shield 5, Focus 5
- Mesmer: Focus 4, 5 (traited), Sword 4, Scepter 2, Feedback
- Thief: Smokescreen, Dagger Storm…
- Ranger: Axe 5 for reflect, GS 4 for block
- Necromancer: Death Shroud? =\

So…most classes do have a few ways to deal with this new change – but it won’t be easy, and it will take skills and coordination to get it right. But hey, if PUG Arah can melee Lupi and stack reflects now, then I have faith in the FotM 50 community too.

Your best bet for ele is earth shield 2 block and the occasional 5 invuln. These are very reliable. I struggled to see her tell when she was very far away sometimes and horrik appeared to want to blast me with his cannon fairly often.

Also, as I experienced last night, having a fabulous mesmer also helps. ^^ Yay sandy!

D/F ele. Spam earth 2.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

MysticHLE.7160:

I think the fact that her pistol shot cannot be evaded (and require block/reflect) is utter BS, and should be looked into. I really cannot think of any other attacks in PvE where evade does not work.

PS: lvl 50 solo coming up once I find the time
CytoSlide – yeah, I hear you. With this new change, I think builds will just need to be re-evaluated though – more towards utility instead of dps.

- Elementalist: Focus Air 4 can cancel her shot, Focus Earth 5 can tank the hit, and Earth 4 can (probably) reflect?
- Warrior: Mace 2, Sword 5, and Shield 5 all can block her shots. These can even be traited for reflects, making the warrior a better dedicated pistol shot blocker/reflector than Mesmers!
- Guardian: Aegis, Wall of Reflection, Shield 5, Focus 5
- Mesmer: Focus 4, 5 (traited), Sword 4, Scepter 2, Feedback
- Thief: Smokescreen, Dagger Storm…
- Ranger: Axe 5 for reflect, GS 4 for block
- Necromancer: Death Shroud? =\

So…most classes do have a few ways to deal with this new change – but it won’t be easy, and it will take skills and coordination to get it right. But hey, if PUG Arah can melee Lupi and stack reflects now, then I have faith in the FotM 50 community too.

Your best bet for ele is earth shield 2 block and the occasional 5 invuln. These are very reliable. I struggled to see her tell when she was very far away sometimes and horrik appeared to want to blast me with his cannon fairly often.

Also, as I experienced last night, having a fabulous mesmer also helps. ^^ Yay sandy!

oh wow, I didnt even notice who was in that team, I was too busy laughing like a crazy person at the excitement this update has given me xD sorry if that ended up in me playing very offensively.

Nah sandy you rocked. Period.

S/F ele has tools to deal with it also….

What is the biggest problem is stacking to remove mai shield.

And if somone dies, many will die also trying to ress.

But the real problem is the usual slap in the face by anet.

This change has nothing positive. is literally working to make your playerbase angry as happened for a year with costant dredge buffs.

I bet it was the same devs to do the job.

Oh, and as some could state above, as main engi I’m getting my party killed, because particle effects make it harder for everyone. At least with grenades.

I probably could go with boons on gadgets for aegis, elixir S and elixir U / elixir R. But it’s even more annoying than it was for engi.

C’mon, we still strugle in competitive pve, don’t make every one of us reroll ele or guard

Signature: Pikan Parom, engi from KING, rage quitting Mai Trin after patch.

trin is new dredge.

Combine the horrible fractal rewards compared to dungeons with a 1/3 chance at getting zilch….

Should be easy to find a dungeon party for the next few months (>.>)

http://www.twitch.tv/oega_booga/c/4577250 <—- epic one shots

and, PLEASE dont nerf the dmg from it, its finaly somewhat of a challange that just needs a bit of training

Oega – I love the challenge but it seems more appropriate to level ~80 – Mai trin was already harder than the other 2 bosses at 50, if anything the other 2 needed a buff

But I would like to see this difficulty again when they unlock higher levels

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

trin is new dredge.

I’d play any day 3 straight dredges (before they changed it) if that meant i wouldn’t had to deal with this Mai “Broken” Trin as last fractal.

Oega Boogabooga.6207:

http://www.twitch.tv/oega_booga/c/4577250 <—- epic one shots

and, PLEASE dont nerf the dmg from it, its finaly somewhat of a challange that just needs a bit of training

I’d be ok with that (no change to the damage) as i rarely get hit (i play Thief), but with the current reward rate (and completely random fractal skin if it ever decides to appear) i’d rather not play fractals after this change because i see a lot of people getting downed one shot even on Daily 11 xD

Believe it or not, i got Daily Reviver today doing Daily 31, then people disbanded and i started my own instance and managed to get it done on second try, still it’s pretty annoying to see this.

Also this isn’t a challenge, the only mechanics here is dodging and making her get hit by blue AoE, i’m sorry but i fail to see how this is a challenge, this is a number check, nothing else.

If we look at Liadri (which i did the 8 Orbs), we have to make Shadows go to white spot, then we have to throw the thing at her, while dodging the sphere that pulls us and also a quarter of the area as AoE, after she starts attacking the AoE becomes North-South, West-East, repeat, we also need to look for shadows so we don’t get hit by them while we kite and dps Liadri, this is a Challenge, compare how many mechanics there are in here and how many there are in Mai Trin, again i fail to see how Mai Trin is a challenge, unless you are referring to the part where you can get combat Medic title in one day while you keep dodging the attacks and resurrecting others.

Mai Trin has been my favorite PvE content in GW2 for awhile. The combat requires knowledge, some skill, mechanics and tactics.

After this update, my only complaints are twofold:

1.) There is no increased reward. No need to beat a dead horse but it isn’t just whining, the lack of adequate reward is an issue.

Receiving fragments/uninfused ring/infused ring is literally the equivalent of being given nothing or ~5silver.

At lvl 50, a person has already obtained ~10-20 rings from drops while leveling up to 50. In addition, they have received enough pristine relics to obtain 5 infused rings of their choice. Receiving nothing from the end chest after 1-2 hours of tough gameplay leaves a disconnect between content difficulty and rewards. Maybe if the gold reward was increased to be similar to Arah, at least it would be a decent way to make some cash. However, adding in a way to exchange pristine relics for skins/ascended or making lvl 50 skin/ascend. drop rates much higher would be the preferred fix.

I 100% believe high level fractals are now the hardest content in the game. It will be extremely difficult to PUG unless 3+ people in the party understand the Mai Trin fight mechanics, or the group randomly gets the other end bosses. In addition, if you roll a high level fractal that does not have an easily manageable instability (e.g. not 40,49,50), the difficulty beats the pants off of Arah in terms of difficulty, unless you happen to get the x4 easiest fractals (Fastest/Easiest set would be: Swampland, Snowblind/Molten Furnace, Aetherblade, Molten Boss/Solid Ocean (fastest/easiest, respectively)). Even then, some of the instabilities are brutal and will prevent PUGs from completing them anyway.

2.) This very difficult content is also now extremely difficult to PUG. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good because it increases the skill ceiling in the game overall, but but bad it does not allow people to access that level without having other players on the exact same or higher skill level on their friends list or in their guild.

Even if you can solo Mai Trin 50, that still doesn’t mean you can haul a bad group through her at a reasonable pace. Soloers often take many attempts to get it right – one missed block and you’re spending the next 10-20 minutes trying it again. They also often use extra consumables, showing how especially difficult it is to solo. Even if your party does have someone who can solo it, it will certainly take an inordinate amount of time to complete the boss fractal unless they’re so experienced they can solo it on the first or second try.

The only way I’ll be willing to attempt to PUG a 49 or 50 is to make sure and question all party members prior to entry about whether they understand Mai Trin animations. I honestly believe that if 3+ people don’t understand this fight, it will sink a team. It is not fair to boot 2-4 players who don’t understand the fight after they have invested 45min-1.5 hours in the other three fractals, but honestly, that is the only way a lot of PUGs will be able to complete their fractal if they rolled Mai and their team isn’t wholly competent.

People citing their level 30 or 40 Mai Trin victories (after multiple party wipes) are not discussing the same issue. They fixed Mai Trin’s scaling, meaning at lower levels (I’m not sure at what point the “scaling” stopped working) it is possible that she has not changed, and groups can likely manhandle her via stacks and having a couple people who really understand the fight. Level 49 and 50 is the real kick in the pants, and is what I would now consider extremely hard to reliably PUG. For me at least, I don’t think the risk of having a ton of my time wasted is worth giving PUGs a chance at 49+.

From experience the best way to deal with her seems to be make sure you can have 2-3 teleport block classes. Eles are the best for this as you got swirling winds and ring of earth (with a short cooldown) you also got over blocks and invulns as to block all the teleports.
You basically use earth/air until her stacks are low enough and then you want to start doing some might combo/dps on her and you can lightning whip her without trigger any melee attacks because of the 300 range. NOBODY should be meleing her anymore because it triggers her melee attacks which will 1 hit people unless they dodge out very quickly. Guard’s can aegis chain and mesmers can also block some teleports. Basically energy sigil’s and vigor are now pretty darn handy for mai trin aswell as evades and blocks, once she gets to low stacks you can dps her down.
You need to be wary of Horrik now since he does a lot of damage with cannon shot so make sure to dodge all of them.

The reason she is so powerful now is because she scales like all the other fractals. she did not before

explain to me how exactly jade maw scales in difficulty with fractal level?

I mean, yes, i know the real answer to that, but in all practicality, it really doesn’t. You can sleep through it 40+ the same as you can 1-10.

Even if Mai Trin were “fixed,” and even if it is doable (which it certainly is), you can’t pretend that this change doesn’t put it totally out of line with the difficulty of the other fractals and fractal bosses.

Just because they changed the stats to scale correctly does not mean that the actual difficulty is scaling correctly, especially in comparison to every other fractal level and boss currently implemented.

Sera.6250:

explain to me how exactly jade maw scales in difficulty with fractal level?

I mean, yes, i know the real answer to that, but in all practicality, it really doesn’t. You can sleep through it 40+ the same as you can 1-10.

Even if Mai Trin were “fixed,” and even if it is doable (which it certainly is), you can’t pretend that this change doesn’t put it totally out of line with the difficulty of the other fractals and fractal bosses.

Just because they changed the stats to scale correctly does not mean that the actual difficulty is scaling correctly, especially in comparison to every other fractal level and boss currently implemented.

The big change with Maw is in 50. The veteran irukjandi (or whatever they’re called. Flying tentacle monsters) do not despawn when you kill the two Maw tentacles. It’s not insurmountable by any means, but it is a complication.

PLEASE REVERT MAI TRIN!

After you fixed Dredge, Fractals were finally in a good place! Not too frustrating, but still remained the most challenging and fun dungeon content in the game!

But now it is a frustrating joke. No one asked for this! So PLEASE revert Mai Trin!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Your best bet for ele is earth shield 2 block and the occasional 5 invuln. These are very reliable. I struggled to see her tell when she was very far away sometimes and horrik appeared to want to blast me with his cannon fairly often.

Also, as I experienced last night, having a fabulous mesmer also helps. ^^ Yay sandy!

Heh, totally forgot about Ele Earth Shield there. Good call. =P

I’m sure ANET didn’t test about their “fixed” about Mai trin
wtf their attack?
Before patch, Horrik’s shot is 3K, now it’s 15K+
Mai trin’s shock attack now can one hit kill ppls.
It’s too noob design… if every thing they do can one hit kill us, wtf we can play?
Or ANET just means “hey, those light armor character, go away” ???

plz change it back

Clisna.3041:

I’m sure ANET didn’t test about their “fixed” about Mai trin
wtf their attack?
Before patch, Horrik’s shot is 3K, now it’s 15K+
Mai trin’s shock attack now can one hit kill ppls.
It’s too noob design… if every thing they do can one hit kill us, wtf we can play?
Or ANET just means “hey, those light armor character, go away” ???

plz change it back

Blocks, reflects, evades. It’s how you’d play at Giganticus Lupicus in Arah.

MysticHLE.7160:

Clisna.3041:

I’m sure ANET didn’t test about their “fixed” about Mai trin
wtf their attack?
Before patch, Horrik’s shot is 3K, now it’s 15K+
Mai trin’s shock attack now can one hit kill ppls.
It’s too noob design… if every thing they do can one hit kill us, wtf we can play?
Or ANET just means “hey, those light armor character, go away” ???

plz change it back

Blocks, reflects, evades. It’s how you’d play at Giganticus Lupicus in Arah.

Necromancer.

inb4 no one plays necro/death shroud. Doesn’t matter, Necro still lacks all of it and some of her skills are undodgeable, which has to be the most stupid idea ever anyway.

At this point… i think the encounter would be fine if the projectile was dodge-able and the AoE twirl thing was blockable. Cannon phase could use an adjustment as well since it’s just very long and a pointless time gate.

The end fractal bosses are still horribly unbalanced and it’s not worth the effort to get fragments or an uninfused rings.

can someone please look into making trin work on lower levels? why do we need this brick wall? she was already nearly unpuggable in low level fractal before you made her do 30 times more damage. this update was just plain mean spirited. im about to just uninstall the kitten game it’s so frustrating watching your group who’s done the whole fractal flawlessly break their armor on mai, the one thing i love doing you take a hot sweaty stinking kitten on for your own amusement.

We did her after 2 wipes on 49, i got 39 empyreal fragments…

I like the idea of a more challenging encounter. I don’t like the idea of it being a 1/3 chance of getting the hard encounter though.

That just seems so wrong.

Can’t beat Mai? do you stop running fractals? Or do you roll the dice?

Could we get a choice of last boss, add some extra chance for the good drops on to mai? I think that’s something a lot of us could get behind.

Groups who aren’t as proficient could still run fractals without it being a coin toss on whether they’ll finish or not, those who want the challenge can get it, and with that those who choose an extra challenge get better loot. Sounds like a win/win/win to me

Got Mai Trin today at lvl 36, with a group of friends. Since I had been reading this forum, I was horrified and instantly switched to guardian. Ate a mango pie and a Scarlet potion. We all ranged her, used reflects and block. No wipes, no downs, no weird situations. Fight took a bit longer than usual, but nothing too annoying. I am yet to see how it is on lvl 49, but it can’t be that bad. I actually enjoyed it, because I got to use some different weapons.

However, I do not look forward to doing this with pugs.

Since Mai Trin always uses her teleport on the player furthest away from her, might it be best if the party has one designated “tank” that always stays further away from her? This person needs to have frequent blocks (a Mesmer with the Malicious Sorcery trait and a Scepter can do this) or invulns to keep blocking Mai’s teleports, while everybody stays close’ish and ranges her, dodging to avoid the lightning as necessary.

The problem will be if Horrik starts targeting the tank and the party now can’t lure Mai into the lightning fields.

Will not do fotm 49. Being FORCE into a full tank team is stupid when anet has been lecturing us about class balance and all that jazz.

Relativity.3264:

Oega – I love the challenge but it seems more appropriate to level ~80 – Mai trin was already harder than the other 2 bosses at 50, if anything the other 2 needed a buff

But I would like to see this difficulty again when they unlock higher levels

My real issue is why are they equating non-stop one-shots (or near one-shots) to difficulty/challenge? I like difficult content, but it needs to be difficult due to boss mechanics…not due to ridiculous damage output on every hit every few seconds. I’d appreciate a strategy approach versus trying to force “tank/healer” requirements into every group. Its not even vaguely disguised…introducing new toughness/healing gear in the same patch when they start ramping up incoming damage…

What even are you talking about ODB? How is healing/toughness gear going to help at all? You have to block the teleport projectiles, not tank them.

Talking about the logical result of increasing damage output combined with them specifically mentioning new healing and toughness gear. Combining that with previous snippets about wanting said gear types to be more useful and with the constant forum sentiment of wanting to “do something” about a berserker meta. I guess its too much of a stretch to see how these things could possibly be related. Yes, the ideal thing would be to block what can be blocked or dodge what can be dodged, but then you factor in pugs, who are allegedly supposed to do the same content and see how well this goes.

Claiming that they released this armor stat combination with the intention of shifting people away from DPS gear just because they buffed one of the bosses in higher level FotM is a very bold statement. You assume way too much.

Whether or not you feel like the boss encounter was fine the way it was, they intended for it to scale differently so they changed it. People have been whining about wanting new gear stat combinations for ages, what’s the big deal?

Also with everyone claiming that Mai Trin was perfectly fine the way it was… food for thought:

I’m pretty sure that first of all way way way more people have been able to solo Mai Trin with relative ease than Molten Duo and we’re just going to leave the Joke Maw encounter out of this seeing as it can be done nearly half-AFK. Whether or not that is relevant at all to you, most PUG teams struggled significantly less with Mai Trin than with Molten Duo in my experience unless I went on very low levels where people still have their dodge keys unbound and stupidly try to revive during cannon phases. Perhaps your experiences were a lot different than mine… I don’t know.

I personally think a buff was justified, but evidently I’m outnumbered here.

Maw at 50 is as annoying.
With mobs having lot of HP and aggroing from mars.

0 challenge 100% annoyance.

I agree with you on that. I don’t find anything challenging at Jade Maw unless I’m lagging… in which case, I can just AFK with a crystal np.

Reminds me of Jotun Skygazer in Arah P1. Really hope they never introduce such insulting encounters into the game like these again.

Thank god i just need to finish one daily to finish the Fractal Capacitor and all it’s upgrades, then i’m done until this is fixed.

My reward for lvl31 Daily with Mai Trin: Empyreal Fragments and Pristine Relic, amazing.

Considering how much times i had to kick people since i was the only one standing and another pug, this is ridiculous at best, basically it’s like i need an organized Guild to do this properly, fair enough, much better, but same results even if less, not to mention i don’t want to wait for people in Guild that actually do fractals to be Online.

This punishes new players, not only new in the sense that got the game late but also those who might want to start doing fractals, yeah they most likely won’t when they see people that do fractals frequently complaining about Mai Trin, which happens.

When i started asking for new ppl in LFG tool: “lvl31 mai trin, need people that know how to dodge”

Then there’s this Warrior saying “two people didn’t know how to dodge?” since we had 2 slots available when he joined, and i said “let’s see if you know how to dodge”, and he said, “i’m lvl50 on fractals” and i said, “it won’t matter”. So we proceed and he is the first one to go down, and a second, and a third time.

What do i want to say with this? That it’s funny when people in LFG ask for experienced people when they can’t even dodge a single attack, it’s like they just randomly dodge and then brag about their level and kick players with low AP (i got an ele with 3k AP that gave more might alone than the two guards in the group on a run i did yesterday, one of the guards had 8k AP and the other 11k, for the record i have 10k in case you’re wondering about the exp people part.

Again what do i mean, i mean that this Mai Trin change punishes pugs, or what i mentioned people that ask for experienced people, with high AP when themselves have no experience at all, and this change proves it. Anyway…

Is this a try for people to go for the new prefix?

Not going to happen, this prefix isn’t meant to be used in fractals unless by a support guard, but making the whole team use it? That’s beyond a joke, i mean, of course if thats the idea the whole team needed to use it since people pointed out the prefix, and it wouldn’t make sense when they did that to mention just one guy, i mean, what difference would it make for one guy (with the new prefix) to be up while the others where down whereas they hadn’t the prefix?

Even if all had the new prefix it wouldn’t matter, people would still get downed no matter how much experience they had, because the prefix provides no Power nor Precision, which means lack of DPS, and by the time people did X DPS Mai Trin had done a ton of attacks already, it’s beyond me how people even think the new prefix helps with Mai Trin (again unless being used by support Guard, but still one guy without lack of DPS will do nothing if other still get hit).

Such effort to get a Pristine Relic at the end, amazing. I’m done with fractals unless they revert this back since this isn’t a challenge but rather a number check. They should had reworked Jade Maw not change Mai Trin.

Purple Miku.7032:

Whether or not you feel like the boss encounter was fine the way it was, they intended for it to scale differently so they changed it. People have been whining about wanting new gear stat combinations for ages, what’s the big deal?

That the other boss fractals needed more changing, at least in my opinion.

Purple Miku.7032:

…most PUG teams struggled significantly less with Mai Trin than with Molten Duo in my experience unless I went on very low levels where people still have their dodge keys unbound and stupidly try to revive during cannon phases. Perhaps your experiences were a lot different than mine… I don’t know.

Comes down to personal experience, but as someone who PUGed his way to 50 with a Guardian (granted I always gearcheck and look for full zerk in the LFG and Guardian is pretty perfect for Molten) about 8/10 groups were able to do the Molten Duo using the burst stratgey. It’s not that Mai Trin was particularly hard but it was always – in my experience – by far the longest boss fractal with the highest wipe potential.

Purple Miku.7032:

I personally think a buff was justified, but evidently I’m outnumbered here.

I cant speak for anyone else but I don’t disagree with you but I feel like there’s about a thousand things they should have fixed/buffed/nerfed/whatevered first. It’s mostly the lackluster way of throwing out fixes that no one at ANET thought through while the really big issues are simply ignored. Jaw is laughable, Molten Duo we can probably debate, no one needs useless ascended rings, no one needs a third Fractal Harpoon skin, no one needs Healer’s chests when every alt has Celestial gear for the WvW we never play, weapon chests are a waste since the chance of one dropping AND being usable is almost 0 etc.

What was it, that most people complained about Pre-Dredge-Nerf? The Fractal RNG. Dredge meant spending way longer while getting the same old rewards. Mai Trin is the same now. It’s RNG, it’s an outlier in an otherwhise pretty balanced assortment of Fractal levels while the rewards are still the same.

You can’t just push a button or flip a lever without looking at the bigger picture. It didn’t work for Agent Spire, it doesn’t work for ANET.

The barrage face is the thing that really needs toning down. Before some of the aoes would only tick for 2k+ so you could survive if you messed up slightly. Now if you so much as get hit by your little toe its an instant down (atleast on ele). Really kittening annoying and i never had much of a problem with barrage phases before, but now its 1 mistake and you’re dead. The timegated barrage phases were annoying enough even when they were easy. Its another reason to not play fractals. I dont really need relics anymore so im not sure why i bother when the rewards are so kitten.

The biggest problem people are having with this fight, is that they expect to fight the new mechanic with the same old tricks they used: stack and spam condition removal. Well now you have to range and use blocks and reflects instead. And noone is being forced into the new toughness/healing power gear. Many successful teams had several guards on, not because they were needed, but because people didn’t know what to expect and took the safe way out.

And I see absolutely no problem in having to put away my DPS weapons, and range for a 10 minute fight.

I am sure people will eventually learn this new fight, but until then I see the LFG being filled with: “Last fractal, Mai Trin, need guard”.

as said i think nobody can say the fractal is balanced.
Try it at 20-30 and you see why it is not.

At 50 may be (yet is unintended, time consuming and not even fun) but at any lower level is just a mistake.

Having a level 2X mai trinn harder than any other level 50 fractal can t be justifyied.

And when such mistakes are done, fast patch rollbacks should be the norm… but i know we ll stick with this for months.

P.S. in mai trinn case, stack is NOT a trick… its the intended mechanic.
What people is doing now are workarounds.

She is immune to most CC just to tell (at least totally immune to mesmer sw2-2, chill, most cripples and stuff)

LordByron.8369:

as said i think nobody can say the fractal is balanced.
Try it at 20-30 and you see why it is not.

At 50 may be (yet is unintended, time consuming and not even fun) but at any lower level is just a mistake.

Having a level 2X mai trinn harder than any other level 50 fractal can t be justifyied.

And when such mistakes are done, fast patch rollbacks should be the norm… but i know we ll stick with this for months.

P.S. in mai trinn case, stack is NOT a trick… its the intended mechanic.
What people is doing now are workarounds.

She is immune to most CC just to tell (at least totally immune to mesmer sw2-2, chill, most cripples and stuff)

She is immune to most cc as long as she has enough stacks of her shield.

@Purple: In terms of pugs and boss fights, it’s the other way around for me. My pugs never had problems with the Molten Duo (except a stupid wipe because we just failed), whereas Mai Trin could still cause a lot of problems. Also, Molten Duo is not as prone to failure due to a player doing every mistake you could (we had that in the other thread). I still stand by the point that the buff itself isn’t the problem, however they should either open higher levels + put the new Mai Trin in there, make the other fractals harder too so people know what they’re in to instead of letting them go through there for a hour and then get their kitten kicked or give us the possibility to freely choose a fractal for training runs so that you can actually practice Mai without having to spend a hour+ first and then have to fear that you may not be able to do it. Also, make undodgeables dodgeable and fix aoe indicators.

I think using whether a boss can be solo’d as a metric is a mistake. The way the boss mechanics work in a solo vs. a group is very different. With the Duo, it makes the mechanics of the fight harder, because suddenly you’re being focused by both. With Mai, Id argue it makes the mechanics easier, because her aggro, teleports, etc are much more controllable and manipulateable by the soloer. (I’m not saying solo-ing as a whole is easier. It’s all on you, 1/5th of a group’s damage, etc. Obviously its much harder and takes a ton of skill and luck. I am saying though, that it is fundamentally different from group play.) We have to consider the buff from the angle of Group Play.

I’d say the time dedication is different, as well. Wiping on the Duo may mean five minutes of lost time. Wiping on Mai might mean fifteen minutes of lost time. That can start to add up. Once or twice probably won’t be a big deal for anyone, but many of us, hardcore and casual, do have busy real lives that may only afford us so much play time.

I still think the damage she does is going to kill PUGing, which was maybe Anets intention. I don’t know. Listening to new techniques from more experienced players I can maybe agree that the buff is okay. But without experienced players in your group, Mai Trin will spell doom.

It would be much more reasonable to keep Mai like this, and maybe give PUGs (and everyone else) a much better fighting chance if we were finally able to have a practice mode. More than any other fractal, it’s needed for this fight.

This change is an utter disgrace. All this does is increase the gap between the PvE elite and the casual people who just want rings or a time-sink ascended back and also widens gaps between the meta speed clear builds/compositions and causal PUG groups and classes. I’m all for giving us a good reason to not use zerker gear, but this is the wrong way of doing it.

For example, if I have a good group and bring my mesmer or ele, I might be able to use blocks, and ele focus to survive if the rest of the group is okay. But if I bring necro, my personal FAVORITE class and the least viable PvE class in a CASUAL group, I am absolutely kittenED, because Anet decided to give us no blocks, no evasion, and no mobility, and that deathshroud life force will be gone in seconds and do nothing.

Thanks a lot anet, while its OBVIOUS that necros need a buff in PvE, this fractal change now means that I am kittened if I bring my zerker necro to fractals. A good game without the holy trinity shouldn’t PUNISH you for bringing a specific class. Why not buff her damage but make her ludicrously vulnerable to conditions so we don’t have to strip her shield with my WvW condition set? Oh thats too much work for you Anet, you might as well just push necros out of PvE altogether and further increase the stigma against PvE necros thats already in place. Honestly, you ignore balancing PvE for the professions that needs it the most, before this change power necros wouldn’t contribute support or utility but at least had great single target damage, now they are unable to survive in this fight due to the necro’s class design, and now I’m a kittening liability.

Besides the fact that this change kittens up one class a bit more than the others, a class that was already in a bad place in pve to begin with, there are other reasons why this change is bad. The RNG can and will kitten you if you want to run fractals daily to get rings or a backpiece or even skins.. and that is simply not right. I can avoid arah PUGs because I know I suck at Lupi, and I can get similar quality rewards for doing all of the other explorable dungeons. With fractals, the rewards can only be replicated with time gated laurels or an expensive mystic forge backpiece. I love GW2 because it is so accessible for new players, and now with the scaling change, new players or going to have a much harder time gearing up let a long getting into fractals to begin with.

I used to have a necro in my regular group. It’s pretty much an unspoken rule for us to cover her disadvantage during Mai fight. I always favor Earth Shield because of that.

Nearlight, you can always play necro until you get the Mai Trin fight, and then relog to another class that makes the fight easier for you….. The Mai Trin fight is a minor part of the fractal run…