New AC is not hard.
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Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
The only encounter in ac I feel is any harder is ghost eater (mainly because it has aoe now), the rest I actually feel are easier especially the spider.
I keep trying to ignore new ac threads but I just can’t :P
Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
sounds like u just want more attention drawn to your thread. His thread is no less valid then yours. on topic tho, yes AC is not that hard. Except path 3 is buggy as kitten the other two are still a cake walk
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
sounds like u just want more attention drawn to your thread. His thread is no less valid then yours. on topic tho, yes AC is not that hard. Except path 3 is buggy as kitten the other two are still a cake walk
I don’t really care about attention. Half the threads on the front page of the Dungeons subforum are redundant and should be merged/closed.
If there’s too much junk for the forum mods to sift through, that in term hampers the message that players want to send to the Devs, which means they might not make the correct judgment calls when modifying/creating new content.
This is why there’s that comment that if you want to make a new thread, you should search whether the topic’s already been made first.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
sounds like u just want more attention drawn to your thread. His thread is no less valid then yours. on topic tho, yes AC is not that hard. Except path 3 is buggy as kitten the other two are still a cake walk
I don’t really care about attention. Half the threads on the front page of the Dungeons subforum are redundant and should be merged/closed.
If there’s too much junk for the forum mods to sift through, that in term hampers the message that players want to send to the Devs, which means they might not make the correct judgment calls when modifying/creating new content.
This is why there’s that comment that if you want to make a new thread, you should search whether the topic’s already been made first.
Is that why you have 3 topics of your own on the first page of this subforum? Seems awfully contradictory to your previous statement. All three of those topics should be merged too yet you don’t mention that there. shrug just saying.
its easier at high levels asside from p3 boss and cave troll. (p2 just takes a bit longer)
however to pre level 80s its way too more brutal than before.
lv80 with skills fully unlocked, warrior, elementalist and engineer
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
I don’t see how people are complaining, AC hasn’t really changed that much other than you can’t cheese it anymore. Learn to actually go through the dungeon the proper way, gain the game experience, if it’s too hard, take the challenge and have the full satisfaction of completing the set ( armor, weps ) etc without cheesing or griefing.
Umm… You have to teach me this trick.
Not a single reply saying how wrong you are, and how hard AC is. Especially for any group not consisting of all 80s., in which case it’s way overtuned. Nor a single post asking you to prove this.
How’d you do that?
Incredible.
its easier at high levels asside from p3 boss and cave troll. (p2 just takes a bit longer)
however to pre level 80s its way too more brutal than before.
This is exactly one of the things our recorded run was meant to disprove. It’s not more brutal for lower levels, not in damage nor survivability. Dynamic leveling does a decent job making up the stat differences in various ways.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
sounds like u just want more attention drawn to your thread. His thread is no less valid then yours. on topic tho, yes AC is not that hard. Except path 3 is buggy as kitten the other two are still a cake walk
I don’t really care about attention. Half the threads on the front page of the Dungeons subforum are redundant and should be merged/closed.
If there’s too much junk for the forum mods to sift through, that in term hampers the message that players want to send to the Devs, which means they might not make the correct judgment calls when modifying/creating new content.
This is why there’s that comment that if you want to make a new thread, you should search whether the topic’s already been made first.
Is that why you have 3 topics of your own on the first page of this subforum? Seems awfully contradictory to your previous statement. All three of those topics should be merged too yet you don’t mention that there. shrug just saying.
The first is a call to arms, the second is (was until recently) an announcement of run time, and the third is a video post detailing our results. each for separate purposes. This thread is specifically for the purpose of telling people AC is not hard. In which case, there’s already at least one other thread specifically saying that.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
Sorry but, are you part of anet? No? Then don’t comment, it’ll get auto deleted soon.
There’s no need to get in a huff about it. Sometimes the forum managers need a little help sifting through all the threads.
sounds like u just want more attention drawn to your thread. His thread is no less valid then yours. on topic tho, yes AC is not that hard. Except path 3 is buggy as kitten the other two are still a cake walk
I don’t really care about attention. Half the threads on the front page of the Dungeons subforum are redundant and should be merged/closed.
If there’s too much junk for the forum mods to sift through, that in term hampers the message that players want to send to the Devs, which means they might not make the correct judgment calls when modifying/creating new content.
This is why there’s that comment that if you want to make a new thread, you should search whether the topic’s already been made first.
Is that why you have 3 topics of your own on the first page of this subforum? Seems awfully contradictory to your previous statement. All three of those topics should be merged too yet you don’t mention that there. shrug just saying.
The first is a call to arms, the second is (was until recently) an announcement of run time, and the third is a video post detailing our results. each for separate purposes. This thread is specifically for the purpose of telling people AC is not hard. In which case, there’s already at least one other thread specifically saying that.
Seems like they all had the same purpose to me, to discuss if it could be done by lv 35s in sub optimal gear. Which u proved. Why you needed to post a seperate topic for both the announcement and for the actual after video is beyond me. I think an edited original post would have sufficed plenty and still gotten your point across just fine. But anywho i’m gonna stop myself there as we are going off topic and i rather not obtain an infraction.
AC is not hard? Maybe you should ask that to anyone who wanders into this dungeon for the first time. Anyone that is of the appropriate level that the dungeon supposedly is aimed at. I think they will tell you that it is hard.
Just because some of us run this dungeon with ease, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a high degree of difficulty. It only means you’re good at AC, and quite frankly, I don’t think anyone gives a Dolyak’s behind how good you are at a dungeon.
AC is very hard, especially for being one of the first dungeons you run into. It is far more difficult than Honor of the Waves for example, or Cathedral of Flames. It probably is even harder now that they changed the bosses to have more interesting mechanics.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
As it probably should be, to be honest. The hardest part about HotW is not falling asleep on any of the bosses, since they have way too much health and overstay their welcome.
Should be even more amusing once they rework both of those dungeons.
As it probably should be, to be honest. The hardest part about HotW is not falling asleep on any of the bosses, since they have way too much health and overstay their welcome.
Should be even more amusing once they rework both of those dungeons.
Personally I’d rather see a steady difficulty progression. Lots of players have to do AC in story mode, and get literally kicked in the teeth by its difficulty. A difficulty closer to HotW or CoF would be much more suitable to these beginner zones of the game. You could gradually learn players how to do dungeons, by slowly making dungeons harder and harder.
Right now it is immediately teeth grindingly hard, turning many players away from dungeons entirely because it is so awful. And then dungeons erratically become way easier, and harder and easier. There is no difficulty curve in the progression of dungeons. I wish there was. Start simple and easy, then build up the difficulty levels with each dungeon, with Arah being the final hardest dungeon.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Personally I’d rather see a steady difficulty progression. Lots of players have to do AC in story mode, and get literally kicked in the teeth by its difficulty. A difficulty closer to HotW or CoF would be much more suitable to these beginner zones of the game. You could gradually learn players how to do dungeons, by slowly making dungeons harder and harder.
Right now it is immediately teeth grindingly hard, turning many players away from dungeons entirely because it is so awful. And then dungeons erratically become way easier, and harder and easier. There is no difficulty curve in the progression of dungeons. I wish there was. Start simple and easy, then build up the difficulty levels with each dungeon, with Arah being the final hardest dungeon.
I can understand this thinking, but given the way the game is designed, I don’t think it’s appropriate at all.
The simplest reason is due to the acquisition of Tokens. Tokens are used for both Gifts as well as Exotic gear. Further, given that different dungeons provide different stats, this would favoracquisition of some stats over others. Not optimal. Further it would inherently trivialize some acquisitions.
The dungeons are designed to provide a challenge to both a player who has reached 80, is fully geared, and is working towards a Legenday, as well as to a player who barely meets the base requirements for that instance – hence scaling. The mechanics of the dungeon don’t rely upon gear, rather, they are dependent upon knowledge and skill – level independent.
Implementing a progressive scale catering to gear, level, knowledge and skill doesn’t easily fit into the current structure.
Trying to revamp the system to accomodate the kind of progression would require resources that could better be spent developing new content rather then trying to restructure content that meets the current paradigm.
It’s not hard now that the NPC properly uses bubbles in P3.
Yeah it’s easy and 10 times more gimmicky than it used to, still provides zero challenge.
The ghostbusters part is fun but that’s about it :/
“Hard” does not matter.
A dungeon can be easy yet boring or frustrating. It can also be hard yet fun and rewarding.
What matters for a game, for any game, is if it’s fun. And for now, it’s quite more fun than before, albeit a small bug here and there.
AC is now hard in that it is very unforgiving. If you don’t see a graveling about to spring so you get knocked over, you’ll probably find that you get knocked over again and again until you die. Kohler and the spider queen can deliver the same result in different ways. For beginners who are trying to learn the fights the unforgiving nature of the dungeon makes them never come back. Whatever the forum talk, people are just not enjoying AC in the same numbers that they used to do.
I like the new AC but for players who are new to GW2 and just reached lvl 35 I don’t recommend it. Yes I agree that is doable at lvl 35 if you know what you are doing.
I think they need a baby dungeon with mediocre gear/rewards that the new players can play in until they get their strategies figured out. Which would be everything from how to put a character together to how to use that character properly in combat. When you’re in PVE its very easy to have your hand held by other players and not learn anything. You can be in a downed state and any player can come by to your rescue which is nice but then you get back up and start attacking again with no real concept of defeat to learn from. The first path in this dungeon should be slightly painful but doable to first timers with no guidance from experienced players. They can throw in some popup hints and tutorials if they like. Path 2 gets a little harder and path 3 could be considered an easy path in other dungeons.
I am aware of the smaller PVE dungeons that are hidden throughout the game such as the ones in Diessa and Dredgehaunt. Those are fun btw, but easy. What I am describing is one were you have to form a party and start an instance with 3 paths to take. The general consensus should be that you shouldn’t try another dungeon until you have mastered all 3 paths of this learner dungeon.
I want my dungeons to be challenging and maybe even intimidating (because they are so elite and hardcore lulz) but with practice, doable with a sense of accomplishment. I had to use training wheels before i learned how to ride a bike now I can drive a car and other people get to fly supersonic planes, you have to start somewhere.
It was harder than hell the last time I did it.
Though a guildie did tell me that the ghost eater was actually bugged. Has this been fixed?
Changes
All Paths:
Spider Queen, she now hits harder which makes you have to be a bit more careful as well as making sure the Gargoyle Heads are down before you spawn her. A bit of group coordination and this should be quite easy. (Yes this did take me three times running to figure out.)
Kholer, and his NPCs spawning off of him. Not really that major, just makes him win against the cave troll and then you just kill him real quick. Otherwise as before you still skip him nine times out of ten, just now it isn’t for speed runs.
Cave Troll, and his supposed change? I honestly fought him once and it really seemed the same. So I will have to say that I have no understanding of why people say he is harder, honestly he seems easier to kill now, but that may just be me. (We did still complete it, but it was down to one person alive screaming on TS as he got downed at 0.1% life on TS DIEEEE!)
Path 1:
The knock-backs and the collection of scepter pieces. It made it quite a bit more annoying and take longer then it use to, but that is what you get when it is easier to run through the room and grab them then fight the over-population of mobs… Which of course is still fully possible to do, just takes a bit more planning then before and some maybe even a few trait swaps.
Howling King and the new spawning system. Well be happy that you didn’t get the wonderful spawn of 8 scavengers, you think the burrow knockdowns are bad… When the spawns don’t bug on that it is perfectly fine, when they do read above. That many will kill you even if you have mistform on ele, as in full life to hard down… But Have only heard of it happening twice so must be a rare bug or fixed real quick.
Path 2:
The Ghost Eater and playing Ghost Busters. Not to sure on the second update, but before they kept the on going problem of that being the buggiest path in AC, as well the bugs making the dungeon uncompletable. Don’t know if that was fully fixed, but would not have a problem giving it a shot again, but yeah if it bugs out again I will pretty much just be done with that path till the next re-haul. Will say the playing Ghost Busters was fun till the dungeon was completely broke when I did it.
Path 3:
Collusus Rumblus and that over-done AoE. Apart from being the lucky one to get the bugged NPC we completed it, thus saying even with all those rocks falling on your head you can still do it, but it tends to be a bit exploitation of clear spots. But hey bugged NPCs I say it is fair game for abusing it. But yeah maybe I will get that path without the bugged NPC and be able to do it much easier.
Conclusion:
So without bugs, the content is doable by pugs as I did p2 and p3 with pugs. (As well had only half a guild group in p1) I just don’t like the feel of them trying to kill melee ability in AC. But with time the content will become easier with some practice at it.
The simplest reason is due to the acquisition of Tokens. Tokens are used for both Gifts as well as Exotic gear. Further, given that different dungeons provide different stats, this would favoracquisition of some stats over others. Not optimal. Further it would inherently trivialize some acquisitions.
Don’t we have this problem already? Some dungeons are clearly much easier than others, such as CoF. What I suggest, is having the difficulties in the correct order: Start with the easiest dungeon, and let them progressively get harder.
The dungeons are designed to provide a challenge to both a player who has reached 80, is fully geared, and is working towards a Legendary, as well as to a player who barely meets the base requirements for that instance – hence scaling. The mechanics of the dungeon don’t rely upon gear, rather, they are dependent upon knowledge and skill – level independent.
Except for the fact that anyone who goes into these dungeons without being level 80 in full gear will get absolutely demolished. That was my point, it’s not gear independent at all. Even with the scaling, gear does still matter.
Implementing a progressive scale catering to gear, level, knowledge and skill doesn’t easily fit into the current structure.
I don’t see why not. You could easily tone down the strength, levels or numbers of monsters to make it progressively harder. And all the gear you get from any of the dungeons is all level 80. The only difference is the stats they give, but no stat combination is really better than another. It all really depends on what stat combo you personally favor. But its not like a dungeon like AC gives worse gear than Arah. In fact, AC armor is one of the few with a good power, toughness, vitality combo.
Trying to revamp the system to accomodate the kind of progression would require resources that could better be spent developing new content rather then trying to restructure content that meets the current paradigm.
I’m not sure how much work it would be. We’re talking tweaking the numbers a bit of existing dungeons, and not remaking them. Something they are already using resources for to do. I mean, they are revisiting all the dungeons right now. So why not do it right? If you’re going to tweak the enemies and bosses… why not make sure there’s a steady difficulty curve as well?
Come back when your pms is worn off. Thanks oh and it’s Citadel Of Flames, not Cathedral, learn to actually learn the names of places, thanks.
You sir are no gentleman, and you clearly didn’t come in here to discuss the topic at all.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)
Edit: Repsonse deleted.
Pretty much have come to accept that based upon the frequency and intensity of the commentary lately, it’s the rare minority of players that would rather spend the time to raise their play to meet the content rather then have the content lowered to their comfort level. No level of arguement on my part is gonna change this.
Kudos to those silent, and minority of vocal players, that do the opposite and take some pride and enjoyment from attempting the challeges offered (even if they fail) – best of luck to them.
(edited by Mourningcry.9428)
Edit: Repsonse deleted.
Pretty much have come to accept that based upon the frequency and intensity of the commentary lately, it’s the rare minority of players that would rather spend the time to raise their play to meet the content rather then have the content lowered to their comfort level. No level of arguement on my part is gonna change this.
Kudos to those silent, and minority of vocal players, that do the opposite and take some pride and enjoyment from attempting the challeges offered (even if they fail) – best of luck to them.
Eloquently spoken.
Edit: Repsonse deleted.
Pretty much have come to accept that based upon the frequency and intensity of the commentary lately, it’s the rare minority of players that would rather spend the time to raise their play to meet the content rather then have the content lowered to their comfort level. No level of arguement on my part is gonna change this.
Kudos to those silent, and minority of vocal players, that do the opposite and take some pride and enjoyment from attempting the challeges offered (even if they fail) – best of luck to them.
It’s because the people that are complaining are looking for easy exotics or easy sources of gold. It’s much less effort for them to complain on the forums until it’s nerfed to a 10 min per path run than to actually learn to play the game properly.
From reading a lot of the complaint threads I just get the impression that these people shouldn’t be running dungeons at all. They are the bottom of the barrel, worst type of pug any group could have the misfortune of having. The type of player that blames their party for every wipe because their game play is flawless.
I hope you are right that they are a minority.
The simplest reason is due to the acquisition of Tokens. Tokens are used for both Gifts as well as Exotic gear. Further, given that different dungeons provide different stats, this would favoracquisition of some stats over others. Not optimal. Further it would inherently trivialize some acquisitions.
Don’t we have this problem already? Some dungeons are clearly much easier than others, such as CoF. What I suggest, is having the difficulties in the correct order: Start with the easiest dungeon, and let them progressively get harder.
The dungeons are designed to provide a challenge to both a player who has reached 80, is fully geared, and is working towards a Legendary, as well as to a player who barely meets the base requirements for that instance – hence scaling. The mechanics of the dungeon don’t rely upon gear, rather, they are dependent upon knowledge and skill – level independent.
Except for the fact that anyone who goes into these dungeons without being level 80 in full gear will get absolutely demolished. That was my point, it’s not gear independent at all. Even with the scaling, gear does still matter.
Implementing a progressive scale catering to gear, level, knowledge and skill doesn’t easily fit into the current structure.
I don’t see why not. You could easily tone down the strength, levels or numbers of monsters to make it progressively harder. And all the gear you get from any of the dungeons is all level 80. The only difference is the stats they give, but no stat combination is really better than another. It all really depends on what stat combo you personally favor. But its not like a dungeon like AC gives worse gear than Arah. In fact, AC armor is one of the few with a good power, toughness, vitality combo.
Trying to revamp the system to accomodate the kind of progression would require resources that could better be spent developing new content rather then trying to restructure content that meets the current paradigm.
I’m not sure how much work it would be. We’re talking tweaking the numbers a bit of existing dungeons, and not remaking them. Something they are already using resources for to do. I mean, they are revisiting all the dungeons right now. So why not do it right? If you’re going to tweak the enemies and bosses… why not make sure there’s a steady difficulty curve as well?
Come back when your pms is worn off. Thanks oh and it’s Citadel Of Flames, not Cathedral, learn to actually learn the names of places, thanks.
You sir are no gentleman, and you clearly didn’t come in here to discuss the topic at all.
Now you assume I am a guy? You were the one that started atagonizing me.
Now you assume I am a guy? You were the one that started atagonizing me.
You ARE a guy. Sheesh.
And I simply pointed out you were wrong. You haven’t provided any arguments so far to the contrary. Well unless you count the PMS remark as an argument.
AC is a hard dungeon. Not hard to all of us, but it is hard. It’s certainly harder than CoF, or HotW. In fact, those two dungeons are relatively easy. But throw an average pug that doesn’t run AC every day into that dungeon, and they will have a hard time. They are not likely to breeze through it. Its as simple as that. Bold statements as “New AC is not hard” are absurd. AC always was hard, and the new version is even slightly harder.
Great that you find it easy. That does not make it an easy dungeon.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Now you assume I am a guy? You were the one that started atagonizing me.
You ARE a guy. Sheesh.
And I simply pointed out you were wrong. You haven’t provided any arguments so far to the contrary. Well unless you count the PMS remark as an argument.
AC is a hard dungeon. Not hard to all of us, but it is hard. It’s certainly harder than CoF, or HotW. In fact, those two dungeons are relatively easy. But throw an average pug that doesn’t run AC every day into that dungeon, and they will have a hard time. They are not likely to breeze through it. Its as simple as that. Bold statements as “New AC is not hard” are absurd. AC always was hard, and the new version is even slightly harder.
Great that you find it easy. That does not make it an easy dungeon.
I actually, am a female. But I love your assumption, so I am going to assume that you are some crack head 40 year old living in a basement. Actually, you ARE a crack head 40 year old living in a basement.
Now you assume I am a guy? You were the one that started atagonizing me.
You ARE a guy. Sheesh.
And I simply pointed out you were wrong. You haven’t provided any arguments so far to the contrary. Well unless you count the PMS remark as an argument.
AC is a hard dungeon. Not hard to all of us, but it is hard. It’s certainly harder than CoF, or HotW. In fact, those two dungeons are relatively easy. But throw an average pug that doesn’t run AC every day into that dungeon, and they will have a hard time. They are not likely to breeze through it. Its as simple as that. Bold statements as “New AC is not hard” are absurd. AC always was hard, and the new version is even slightly harder.
Great that you find it easy. That does not make it an easy dungeon.
I actually, am a female. But I love your assumption, so I am going to assume that you are some crack head 40 year old living in a basement. Actually, you ARE a crack head 40 year old living in a basement.
This will get reported and deleted.
…but crackheads wouldn’t waste $60 on a video game…that’s like 3 crack rocks right there!
AC dungeon…on all levels, including story, needs to regulate damage for troll.
Actually managed to do storymode earlier this week, and he hit like a truck. He’s a bonus champion in the middle of a dungeon filled with bosses, and while his attack rotations aren’t as complex as the bosses, he actually does more damage than any boss in the dungeon.
It’s obvious that they tweaked it for Expl mode, but didn’t even take a gander at regulating the damage output for storymode (in relation to the rest of the bosses)
I won’t be pretentious to say AC is not hard because I can do it with my regular dungeon runners.Individual skills,a well thought out traits and skills from each player/Class and the most important thing playing as a group is the key to defeat this dungeon.If you go in there thinking that you can do what you do while doing Events in the World you are good for a rude awakening.
I like the skill it takes to beat dungeons in this game. Seriously, you need to be good to do them. I mean, who else but the elite can rely on the Warmaster Grast to protect them from Colossus Rumblus.
Sarcasm aside, it is horribly stupid to make a group rely on faulty NPC AI. When a pet AI has trouble attacking something on a hill (or attacking in general for all you Necormancers out there), why would I put my entire dungeon group at risk during the last boss fight by relying on a NPC to cast a shield (that he only will do if he is not charging his hammer for a useless attack mind you) to protect us from a very possible one hit death move.
(edited by Vanthian.9267)
I actually, am a female. But I love your assumption, ….
It assumes me that you say that shortly after saying this…
Come back when your pms is worn off.
which clearly implies he is a female. Your friend the pot would like to have a word kettle.
Edit: Oh, for future reference it is IMS (Irritable male syndrome) for males. The more you know!
(edited by Vanthian.9267)
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
So a vid of “experienced players” (title of the thread with the vid) struggling with that should be the easiest dungeon for beginners….proof s its not hard?
._.
Anet please start thinking wich is your target……those 99% players that just wants to chill out and having a reasonable challenge.
Or those 1% elitist that often abuse game mechanics and then complain the game is easy….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Several threads have already been made about this subject, including a video thread with a party of level 35s in masterwork gear going through it.
Request close/merge, please.
So a vid of “experienced players” (title of the thread with the vid) struggling with that should be the easiest dungeon for beginners….proof s its not hard?
._.
Anet please start thinking wich is your target……those 99% players that just wants to chill out and having a reasonable challenge.
Or those 1% elitist that often abuse game mechanics and then complain the game is easy….
First off your percentages seem dubious at best, I’d like a source. Second off as an educated guess, I’d say you’re absolutely wrong with your percentages any way. There are millions of players, and only a few hundred posting on the forums, and only about 20-30 about how a certain dungeon is impossible on level, etc. Anet had statistics for each and every dungeon, level range, gear range, etc. When they make changes they take that into consideration, they’re not just blindly doing things, I’m sure if 1% were only completing the dungeon as intended it would be fixed. Your quip about people abusing mechanics is uncalled for and ignorant, there was no abuse of mechanics in that video, and no struggling outside of the ordinary for any group. People went down, but there were no wipes. No mechanics were abused, it was in fact, exactly how you’d expect any dungeon run to be with any levels. They have made a video showing level 35 players, who didn’t know each other previously, and had only 1-35 levels of experience on their characters do AC explorable with no wipes. They’re experienced because like everyone else should do, they tried, failed, tried, failed elsewhere, and didn’t whine about it. People don’t want to try and raise themselves to the standards that are very doable, instead they want the standards lowered to them. This dungeon awards gifts for legendaries and level 80 exotics. That level 35’s CAN complete it on level, is actually sort of strange and not many other games even allow end game progression potential so early. If you expect something with end game rewards to come easy at level 35… I don’t know. That’s sad.
No one complained the game is easy, you’re inventing people who aren’t posting here and who weren’t involved in that video and projecting them onto us.
“Everyone is born a 5 signet Warrior,
what we become later only depends
on how hard we try and how good we want to become.” -HannaDeFreitas
what we become later only depends
on how hard we try and how good we want to become.” -HannaDeFreitas
(edited by Brennus.1435)
Really nobody complained the game is too easy? (most of them are guardians also and that makes me think)
Also i Always asked for Appropriate reward for lvl 35 ascalon explorable
No need to give lvl 80 exotics, but actually there is need for lvl 60-40 affordable gear.
Try, fail, retry etc is what actually a bad design was considered in VG for decades.
Something that requires you yo know what is about to happen before……and not only act, but also equip regarding to that.
But most of all let people learn how to do xplorabledungeon with an adequate challenge…
Complaining about endgame proves just how egohistic players are.
This is not endgame this is a lvl 35 dungeon….if you want endgame play a lvl 80…if there is not enough endgame it has nothing to do with a lvl 35 dungeon….
I can possibly do every dungeon now due to quite an amount of experience….yet when some new players arrives and want to play a dungeon i m quite tired of saying…don t even try before 80…
If they do it anyways they just get shocked, and posssibly leave the game…
That is all……
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Complaining about endgame proves just how egohistic players are.
This is not endgame this is a lvl 35 dungeon….if you want endgame play a lvl 80…if there is not enough endgame it has nothing to do with a lvl 35 dungeon….
Then you demand the devs remove the tokens from AC without suggesting a replacement means of obtaining them and see how many dozens of forum posters rally to tell you to shut up.
I don t care….most farmers already left AC….they are all playing the huge challenge that cof 1 is.
So leave the tokens and remove exotic stuff…
Or just reduce tokens……maybe halve them so even casual can have access to exotics easily without being a good farming area.
But make the dungeon easier……it has to be the easiets of all explorable considering level.
Its just bad advertise for any new player….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Really nobody complained the game is too easy? (most of them are guardians also and that makes me think)
Also i Always asked for Appropriate reward for lvl 35 ascalon explorable
No need to give lvl 80 exotics, but actually there is need for lvl 60-40 affordable gear.
Try, fail, retry etc is what actually a bad design was considered in VG for decades.
Something that requires you yo know what is about to happen before……and not only act, but also equip regarding to that.But most of all let people learn how to do xplorabledungeon with an adequate challenge…
Complaining about endgame proves just how egohistic players are.
This is not endgame this is a lvl 35 dungeon….if you want endgame play a lvl 80…if there is not enough endgame it has nothing to do with a lvl 35 dungeon….I can possibly do every dungeon now due to quite an amount of experience….yet when some new players arrives and want to play a dungeon i m quite tired of saying…don t even try before 80…
If they do it anyways they just get shocked, and posssibly leave the game…
That is all……
Learning by failing is not bad game design. Demon’s Souls is a perfect example of this concept. People here seem to think that an intro dungeon should be a cake walk but on the contrary it should be a baptism of fire. The cake walk is the open world where you try new skills as you learn them and get use to your class mechanics. You go to dungeons for a challenge that requires you to think and adjust your play style (and further learn the intricacies of your class) and you are rewarded for completing the challenge.
Don’t even argue that old AC was challenging, it was a joke.
Learning by failing is not bad game design. Demon’s Souls is a perfect example of this concept. People here seem to think that an intro dungeon should be a cake walk but on the contrary it should be a baptism of fire. The cake walk is the open world where you try new skills as you learn them and get use to your class mechanics. You go to dungeons for a challenge that requires you to think and adjust your play style (and further learn the intricacies of your class) and you are rewarded for completing the challenge.
Interesting that you should bring that up, because Demons Souls is actually more forgiving than GW2. I’ve played a lot of Demons Souls as it just so happens. Trial and error is terrible design, but Demons Souls wasn’t about that, where as GW2 is. Failing at something is okay, as long as the player feels the challenge is fair, and the challenge did not require the player already knowing what he’s up against.
In Demons Souls the challenges were always fair. Even with no knowledge of a boss battle you could make it. Demons Souls allowed players to learn the boss mechanics while fighting him. And while there might have been one or two bosses that could instantly kill you, it never felt like the game was being unreasonably unfair. Demons Souls also had a pretty relaxed design philosophy; anything goes. Unfair strategies were allowed on the part of the player, and even expected. Finding safe spots where an enemy couldn’t get you, was allowed, and felt rewarding. And never did bosses regenerate health the moment you disengaged them (except for one boss with a very slow healing skill). In Demons Souls, everything was about strategy, and awareness of your surroundings. In GW2 it almost seems like the opposite, as if they don’t want you to make use of your surroundings. Which is why most boss battles in GW2 are just a flat empty open space.
And to be honest, while many people felt the start of Demons Souls was hard, it was simply teaching the basic fighting mechanics. Once you got that, the whole game became a lot easier. With GW2, not so much. I know how to dodge, I know how to deal with conditions… and still I will often wipe due to badly telegraphed attacks from bosses, or attacks that hit way beyond what you’d reasonably expect their range to be. And worst of all, many boss attacks instantly down you, and the boss then proceeds to beat on you till you are truly dead. This completely defeats the purpose of the downed-mechanic, and makes the game far less forgivable than Demons Souls.
So yeah, good example. But Demons Souls is a much more fair game, without the trial and error. It can sometimes be a little cruel. But you quickly learn that there could be a guy with a dagger behind every corner, and that an abandoned bridge full of corpses probably means those corpses are there for a reason. As Akbar would put it: “It’s a trap!”
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Learning by failing is not bad game design. Demon’s Souls is a perfect example of this concept.
thankyou to prove my point.
Demon’s souls its a uber easy game……
It was a project by an old team that just recicled an old game with non existent AI just adapting it to new technology as they could.
Its succes was dued not to difficulty, but to awesome scenography and the lack of rpg on consoles, paired with ahuge misunderstanding…..
People were just accustomed to running everywhere to deal with new AI in games like halo and stuff thus didn t consider for a moment initially that it could just be a game where walking instead of running and just knowing how to trick the poor AI makes you finish the game with not a single Death :|
It was the biggest misunderstanding in VG history….only old school players didn t get fooled…..expecially those remembering “king’s field” series…..
GW2 Dungeon are the same thing….you must just abuse the non existent AI to pass through stuff.
Notice on how critic on that game universally complained of unavoidable deaths because you simply couldn t know something would happen and thus you have to repeat.
But when you know what s about to happen, avoiding it is easy….
Once that particular design was considered utterly bad…….and i talk of 5-10 years ago…..when finally devs started to understand the concept of AI, challenge and skill.
Everything should be reasoably doable on first attempt with the proper skill, and the challenge should stay almost the same at any new attempt.
That is how good challenging games works.
And instead when memory>>>skill well there you have a bad design.
P.S: old AC was uberhard with new players of lvl 35….a thing that few people try….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
(edited by LordByron.8369)
Everything should be reasoably doable on first attempt with the proper skill, and the challenge should stay almost the same at any new attempt.
But it is. Level 35’s do it have done it, have shown themselves doing it, in level 35 gear, after having not known each other previously, and having just even opened some of their weapon skills, which means low knowledge of their class. Did it without a wipe. That means there’s trial and error cushion for anyone who has never been there to possibly succeed, instead of… you know… whine on the forums. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing, it’s like the dungeon jumped up and started calling you bad names and hurt your feelings or something.
Basically all you’re saying is, “It’s too hard, no matter what, the end.” Correct? All the examples of people doing it are construed as them being elitist, despite they were in the same boat as most everyone else is at this point. No manner of explanation or help with tactics, it doesn’t matter, for you, the dungeon is impossible and you want it lowered to your standards. I play this game for about two hours a day, and I’m off a week at a time, and I find this dungeon fine. It’s a nice challenge, it’s not a cake walk, and it’s fun. What you want is honestly for the game to lower itself to your standards, that is all you’re saying.
“Everyone is born a 5 signet Warrior,
what we become later only depends
on how hard we try and how good we want to become.” -HannaDeFreitas
what we become later only depends
on how hard we try and how good we want to become.” -HannaDeFreitas
(edited by Brennus.1435)
snip
I feel we agree on some part and disagree on others.
I agree Demon’s Souls is an incredibly easy game, with the levels being arguably more difficult than some of the bosses (I’m looking at you Valley of Defilement). I’ll also agree the aesthetics of the game are fantastic and the environments are beautifully done, but I don’t want to derail this topic too much.
The point I see you are making is that Demon’s Souls is only difficult until you realize how to beat the bosses and what skills to dodge (I think this is your argument correct me if I’m wrong). While I agree that there are certain spots where it’s difficult to avoid without prior knowledge, I think it’s a bit unfair to claim that all of the games difficulty was from easy to dodge (once you knew about them) one shot deaths. Sure the boss mechanics are very easy, but what the game does well is it teaches you skills that are transferable throughout the game. Some examples are Maneater and Flamelurker which are a greater test of patience (if you are melee and not cheesing) than anything else. The most important thing it teaches is to observe before you engage, which is a skill that many of the run-and-gun style games today really don’t teach.
I disagree with your statement that a challenge should be same with a new attempt. By the inherent nature of how a challenge works it’s going to get easier with each attempt. The more you do something the better you get at it. It’s called learning, or in some cases conditioning. In GW2, for example, you are conditioned to know that glowing light + elaborate windup animation = dodge.
Give me an example where this type of challenge design you speak of exists, because I fail to see how anything outside of PvP game play could remain challenging with continued attempts.
Memory is always going to be a factor in challenge design. There is no way around it. Everything that you do (your build, the way you react to certain things, your positioning etc.) is going to be affected in some form or another by past attempts. Do you honestly think that player skill at a game isn’t memory based?
For something to fit your “perfect” challenge design would require the player to not learn anything from repeated attempts, thus being just as challenging as the first attempt.
snip
You do have time to figure out boss mechanics in GW2. Have you ever looked at the text below their health bar? ANet literally tells you everything that each mob does in plain English.
Trial and error is a bad game design? I’m not even sure where to begin with this statement. How did you learn to play your class? Don’t you have to try skills out to find which ones work for your play style and which ones don’t work?
What I’m beginning to think is that you aren’t actually looking for a challenge, but merely an easy task that you can succeed at disguised as a challenge. Challenges are meant to test your limits and be a learning experience.
If you are going into dungeons expecting to clear it on the first attempt then you aren’t seeking challenges, you are seeking easy rewards.
(edited by IamDuddits.1692)
just to keep challenge the same (and your Learning means you get better not you memorize stuff) you should randomize spawns, opponents and stuff like that.
In DS you just learn enemies pattern….and then they keep doing the same thing Always.
Its quite easy to understand where stats takes place of the AI.
DS does that, you are slower and does less damage than mobs.
Same is often for GW2……
You just memorize patterns and Attacks and dumb AI cannot adapt.
Its just not a game of skill, tactic and stuff….its just memorizing a strategy (you possibly already seen on youtube or by other players).
No skill involved.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
just to keep challenge the same (and your Learning means you get better not you memorize stuff) you should randomize spawns, opponents and stuff like that.
Learning is memorization.
How do you learn a language? You memorize phrases and their meanings. How do you learn music? You memorize configuration of notes or you remember chords and rhythms. How do you learn to drive? You condition your hands and feet to memorize the mechanics of the car, how they interact with each other, how to maneuver obstacles, mix and apply them through memory as the situations change.
If you do not understand the concept of learning, you have no point to argue. You learn by memorizing and applying. It is plain as that.
Don’t know anything about Demon Souls or whatever, but by the sound of it, people cheesed content. That may be fine in a single player game where only you are affected, but this is a MMO game. It’s not the same thing.
You just memorize patterns and Attacks and dumb AI cannot adapt.
Its just not a game of skill, tactic and stuff….its just memorizing a strategy (you possibly already seen on youtube or by other players).No skill involved.
Then why are you complaining? If no skill is involved, then it can be easily circumvented by effort. Of course learning is effort, and adapting quickly to outside influences to learn on the fly requires some skill…so maybe you’re wrong.
just to keep challenge the same (and your Learning means you get better not you memorize stuff) you should randomize spawns, opponents and stuff like that.
In DS you just learn enemies pattern….and then they keep doing the same thing Always.
Its quite easy to understand where stats takes place of the AI.
DS does that, you are slower and does less damage than mobs.
Same is often for GW2……
You just memorize patterns and Attacks and dumb AI cannot adapt.
Its just not a game of skill, tactic and stuff….its just memorizing a strategy (you possibly already seen on youtube or by other players).No skill involved.
Maybe we could have ANet phone up Skynet and get them to implement a new AI system for GW2. Until Skynet calls back we will have to stick to the reality that MMO encounters have learned mechanics and patterns that the players will eventually discover and master through repetition.
What does randomizing spawns do for the challenge when most people skip the mobs anyways? Same goes for opponents.
As for the “stats take place of AI”, I’m assuming you are referring to gear checks, which are something that ANet has been doing a good job of avoiding.
I’m sorry that you dislike that MMO boss/dungeon mechanics have a memorization component to them, but I think you are over emphasizing this aspect. If running a raid or dungeon was as simple as memorizing an instance or boss fight then every player would be able to run top end content simply by watching a youtube video according to you. However, based on the number of whine threads about AC this clearly isn’t the case. So obviously player skill is involved.
Knowing what you should do and actually being able to do so aren’t the same thing. Skill is when you can do both.
Also, I recommend you read a wiki page or dictionary definition of what it means to learn.
(edited by IamDuddits.1692)
…
Same is often for GW2……
You just memorize patterns and Attacks and dumb AI cannot adapt.
Its just not a game of skill, tactic and stuff….its just memorizing a strategy (you possibly already seen on youtube or by other players).No skill involved.
Please demonstrate. We were asked to. I offer the same.
Show me a flawless Kholer kill. The patterns are well know, and readily availble.
You claim it’s not a test of skill. Have at it.
Edit:
My apologies, response is childish. Just tired of seeing such blatantly dismissive and ignorant posts.
It’s obviously theoretically possible to perform a flawless Kholer kill, but to state that there would be no skill involved is a bit audacious.
(edited by Mourningcry.9428)
The new Ascalonian Catacombs is definitely challenging. But it’s neither undoable or truly punishing. I was concerned it may be a bit much for early levels and new players sticking their toes into the water, but I do think it is a nice balance the way it is now.
I’m looking forward to Robert getting his hands on some of the other, more troubled dungeons. (Here’s hoping Caudicus’ Manor is next!)
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