Guild Wars 2

Link to the Fractals update post: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/fractals-of-the-mists-dungeon-improvements/

In my quest to get to Fractal level 26, I’ve noticed a couple issues. The future change to Fractals, namely that lower Fractal level people can join higher level groups, will make these issues worse, resulting in a detriment to the community and the experience of the game.

1. Issue number one: Odd fractals.

Barely anyone wants to run these already. People run them for progression and never look back.

The new system makes this even worse- People will simply skip them to run dailies at higher levels. No one will want to run them, so they will be a waste of space. Why run these if you can just skip them?

2. Issue number two: Rage quitters.

In my journey to level 26, from 22 through 24, I ran through a rough patch of group after group of elitist rage quitters who would disconnect come the first party wipe.

The new system, as it is, will worsen this problem by far. I occasionally run lower level fractals (1-6) to help out players starting out, pointing out tricks, and giving tips. It’s fun, and people are eager to learn. But I, and they, agreed when I described the increase in agony of 10 (in both ways, agony mechanic and difficulty), that they were not in any way prepared in terms of skill. I doubt I would be prepared had I not practiced through all the evens and odds.

In the future, with no way to determine someone’s fractal level, people who are skeptical already of pick up groups will be even more so- at the slightest mistake – “You made a really silly error, you must be inexperienced, get out, please!”

When people make mistakes, it is human to think the worst, if only for a second. However, this lowers the deep end of worst from “maybe they’re just not particularly good” to “maybe they’re not good and are at a much higher fractal level than they should be at”

Even without being a quitter, no one wants to see, after a wipe, “these hurt SO much more 10 levels higher lol” or something similar. It causes the community to break into people who got to their level “legitimately” and those who have not.

It provides more of a liability when creating pick up groups, which, with no competent built in Looking For Group system, is the last thing we want added. Everyone wants a scapegoat for their failure, and if it’s the guy who seems like he’s not on the right fractal level, then they will blame him.

This isn’t as much of an issue now (on some even fractals when people from higher come down to do dailies), because you know that someone playing that fractal level has at least had experience up to that point, if not agony resist (which often isn’t the indicator of skill). But with the coming changes, there will be likely be a lot more rage quitters and a lot fewer cheerful “gj team!” after a difficult patch.

Infused gear barely cracked the community- I ran 24 with someone who had 15 resist, but was skilled enough to not die all the time and listened to our advice, even though he knew what the problem was. We completed the fractal well, and that was that.
By amplifying the skill difference in pick up groups as planned, the infused gear/fractal levels will break the crack even wider.

This further fracturing of the community is somewhat ameliorated by allowing people to see each others’ fractal level in some way. That way, guilds or friends who want to carry fellow members or their alts to higher levels can, while pick up groups don’t suffer from being forced to guess at whether or not their party is actually ready for the level they are doing.

There’s enough gambling as it is in this game.

I really like the community in this game right now, even with its little quirks, but please, ArenaNet, do not introduce this mechanic as planned. Do not drive a spike through the community.

You wrote ten+ paragraphs just to say they need to allow people to see each others’ fractal level?

I somewhat agree that this patch will make “show me your agony resist, 15+ agony only, blah blah blah” a common feature, but they needed to do something. I think they could have limited it tiers, because that’s when difficulty really jumps.

But I could careless because I’ll finally be running fractals with my guild/friends and not the pubs.

It takes that much text to explain the reason we need to allow people to see each others’ fractal level.

I think it’s great that people will be able to run fractals with friends and guild members, but that shouldn’t leave those of us who run in pick ups to fend for ourselves in a rabid pit of festering rage.

You also made yet another thread on that topic. I’m pretty sure Anet is aware that you have to be able to see others levels.

Could be useful to see the “account level” (highest level by characters on that account) as well.

Lvl 3 warrior on account with a lvl 30 guardian who farmed all the agony resist the warrior needs will probably be able to carry his weight even at lvl 30

I also bring up the issue of odd numbered fractals being abandoned even more.

I don’t see why it’s an issue to speak up about a subject that needs talking about.

If more people want to see change or clarification, the only way to do so is to speak up.

Make a guardian and bring him to 40 or 50+ fractal, then you are the one choosing your dungeon, people say no can go find others to carry them. You do what you want, isn’t that betta?

Fractals are a team dungeon. After 20, in multiple places, if two people die, it usually results in a wipe for the team.

Carrying people through is fine when it’s at an appropriate level.

When people are unaware of the damage that can be dealt at a certain level, they play very differently than when they are aware. At lower levels, it can be relatively safe to melee most bosses. But at higher levels, doing so is just asking to be defeated.

The gradual progression of fractal levels really does help to enhance a player’s skill at their class, and removing the progression seems like an odd decision.

For instance, it was because of fractals that I learned the benefits of having multiple weapon sets in my inventory, and also got me comfortable with switching out utility skills for various encounters. Simple concepts, but without progressing through all the fractals, I wouldn’t have that mindset, and would not be ready for the fractal level that I am currently on.

I agree. If they want to help lower-level fractal players to find parties, they should help specifically them and not throw everyone else in to carry their weight. I’d consider level 20+ to be higher level because that’s when Infusion rings start coming into play. So why not make it so that all the level 1-19 fractal players can join each others’ groups and help each other progress?

The last thing I need is a level 8 fractal player tagging along in my 36 group who starts dying repeatedly once we get to anything actually difficult. It’s true that you can do higher level dungeons with 0 AR, but then again, that’s not everyone and I’m sure the majority of players are not capable of this.

So … people complain when it “divides the community” as it is, and now, people complain because of that ?
Anet has some courage and deserves a medal sometimes to put up with players ^^
Still, I don’t really see the problem : if guy has enough AR, he probably went far enough …

Actually, I had thought of a similar system of what they plan (without the karma for higher levels) but restricted to up to 5-10 levels.
But I don’t think it will be so big a problem.

I personally can’t wait for the update. I’ve waited for close to an hour to find some of the odd numbered fractals. Now finding a group will be quick and easy. On the lfg site, I’ll probably just put a requisite of 20-30, 30-40 and so on.

Also can’t wait to put my low fractal level guildies into a high level and watch them wipe. 3:)

KratosAngel.7289:

So … people complain when it “divides the community” as it is, and now, people complain because of that ?
Anet has some courage and deserves a medal sometimes to put up with players ^^
Still, I don’t really see the problem : if guy has enough AR, he probably went far enough …

The way I see it is that it will divide the community even more than it has now. By adding another layer of liability in the form of “you haven’t completed this many fractals” it creates an easier blame game.

AR isn’t the end all in terms of skill. Plenty of groups with good AR fail miserably due to the difficulty increase in terms of the general monsters. It can really catch you off guard if you haven’t progressed that far yet.

Not only that, but AR is very much luck based on whether or not you get a ring. The way it is to be implemented, someone who’s beaten through 18 might not have any AR, but someone who’s technically on level 3 could have 10 if they got lucky. That seems to be making the problem worse than better.

And yea. The update will pretty much make odd numbered fractals obsolete. (even more so than they are now)

EDIT:
Don’t get me wrong- balancing the player base and meeting everyone’s needs is very difficult. I applaud ArenaNet for being this successful at it so far- but this seems like a step in the wrong direction without any changes.

Why doesn’t anyone get that there is no reason for lower lvl players to want to do higher lvl fractals, they have mentioned the lower lvl player will recieve loot that fits his lvl… So you get the same loot as a lvl 2 at a lvl 2 or a lvl 21. But in the 21 you have agony, it’s harder and it takes allot longer FOR THE SAME LOOT as lvl 2 that is easier.
(AKA they also don’t get rings till above lvl freaking 10 themselves!!)

This tool is ment for guilds/friends to play together, as guildies lvl 2 are probally better then lvl 10 pugs (with ts/vent being a clear advantage.) If anything this makes it so you don’t have to pug anymore if you got a guild running it.

The most important thing, i repeat, there is no reason to run it higher then your lvl cause you get your lvl’s loot… The only reason would be guild/friend groups.
You get a chest for jade maw, you get a daily for your even lvl’s even if it’s an uneven for the host.

Now how is this a bad thing? This is a major step forward.

You need to consider players playing with their alts too.

For regular dungeon, you can run with an alt easily instead of always running with the same character. But for FotM, it is just impossible. Many high levels have extra ascended rings enough for their alts and their alts have just the same gear and skills but not the required level. If you want people to keep playing with FotM, you need to provide higher feasibility for their alts too. People would be bored very quickly if you must stick to the same character. Also, for higher tiers, it is usually a lot better to have variety of profession in your group, which means your alts can become better choice in many runs.

Maybe showing a character FotM level along with an account Max FotM level might be better considering PuG cases.

i do agree account lvls could be nice

The change will largely kill of odd fractals, but I don’t see a problem with that.

As long as it is clear to players that they get the rewards of their own fractal level, not the one they are doing, I don’t see this being a big problem. Check for rings on your 20+ groups as a sanity check and get on with it.

What I’d expect to see is people joining the common daily groups – 10, 20, 26, 30, etc – for progression, since it’s so much easier to find groups for, say, a 20 daily vs a 17 progression group. So those tiers will have more people looking for them, but it won’t be a huge disparity – your people on fractal level 3 might be joining a 10 group, but there’s little reason for them in a 20 group beyond it being a guild group of the like.

So while the OP’s point is a concern, I don’t expect it to be more than a minor one that can be solved with ‘link rings’ until proven otherwise.

account levels + AR visible maybe be useful, but unless that lv41 fractal due has passed AR to his newly 80 alt who’s geared in full exotics, the alt is rather poor in lv30 fractal even with all the experience of the main toon.

as many have said, this most helps guilds so they can bring in a non-pug whos on vent/ts as a skilled guildy (w/o AR) who has done few fractals who listens to you over vent/ts is often more useful then a random pug (w/ 10 AR) on a level 10-19. While this may make it bad for people who pug and dont run with their guild (as those 5th spots are now filled in guild), it may just force them to find a good useful guild; which will better strengthen the community and give the game a better chance to flourish longer in the future.

I admit the OP made sense to me at first, but Ensing really cleared my doubts.

Except this one:
Is THIS “Our new system will allow players who disconnect to reconnect to their party and jump back into the dungeon.” gonna allow that when a player rage quit or simply dc (for too long), party members can invite another player? If so, it this gonna end up in people being kicked out of parties because now it’s possible to invite someone else?
Or is it just gonna allow to connect to the party those who already were a part of it?

Besides that one concern, I’m very happy with this change. I quit fractals after I spent a couple of days LFG for lvl 17 with no luck. So I guess I’ll be coming back.

Ensign.2189:

What I’d expect to see is people joining the common daily groups – 10, 20, 26, 30, etc – for progression, since it’s so much easier to find groups for, say, a 20 daily vs a 17 progression group. So those tiers will have more people looking for them, but it won’t be a huge disparity – your people on fractal level 3 might be joining a 10 group, but there’s little reason for them in a 20 group beyond it being a guild group of the like.
.

Dailies? There will be a huge influx of players simply looking for 10 and 20, even 30 dailies who quite possibly aren’t ready for it.

Higher level fractals also drop better loot and more fractal relics.

It’s definitely quite possible that this will just work out fine and nothing bad will happen. I hope it will be like that. But after encountering the rage quitters of level 24 fractals, I’m very doubtful.

I understand what this change is aimed toward. At the same time, I feel that there are so many different ways that this change can turn bad. I’m not against the change- I feel that there needs to be more insurance against the potential issues.

Ltomato.8649:

Dailies? There will be a huge influx of players simply looking for 10 and 20, even 30 dailies who quite possibly aren’t ready for it.

It depends on how it’s set up. If a flvl 1 player completes a level 30 fractal and gets a level 30 reward, there will be a problem. If they complete a level 30 fractal and get the level 2 reward, not so much.

The problem would be if a fractal level 10 player could do 10, 20, and 30 and get the 10 daily reward each time. That would be motivation to do much higher level fractals even if you only got the rewards from your own fractal level.

So to prevent that, they need to have the dailies count as your highest level daily if you’re in a fractal higher than your current fractal level – so for your flvl 10 player, he’d get his flvl 10 reward the first time he completed, say, a 20+ fractal, but doing a 10+ fractal after that would give no daily reward, nor would completing a 30+; you’d have to actually be at that level to get another daily.

We’ll see if they get that right. If they do I wouldn’t worry much – I don’t think the improved drop rate is enough to compel people to play 30+ fractals instead of their current tier unless they really belong there.

Im sorry, but I disagree.

Giving the control and flexiblity to the players is a really good step to take – and it will really help guilds who play together often, but worry about leaving people behind.

Most of the people who rage quit or belittle others because of their performance in fractals will do so regardless of the grouping system in place. They do it now. Most of us realize it is usually more about their own egos and self important attitudes than it is about anything anyone else does (e.g., if you are the kind of person that yells at others in ANY video game for ANY reason, you have deeper personality issues and should probably find another pastime).

This change gives us more tools to work with – more ways to form groups – and more ways to bring people in guilds/regular groups closer together. I realize it may highlight issues with pugs, but as I note above, those issues will exist regardless.

If people are jerks or you identify someone you dont want to run future game content with, simply add them to your ignore list – problem solved.

you can play 1 class at 70+ does not mean you could play another at 30+. Wholelot of you would be crying IMBA if we could rejoin on maw with alts, even if only 80 alts. Majority of the 60+ guys have multiple 80 alts.

While I partly agree with the OP, I have to say we players should take part of the blame. Selfish ones (Dead and none rez), rage quitters (you guys are stupid, bye) , speed runners (too slow kick with bunch offensive language), unnecessary requirement maniac (AKA heavy classes NO necro, theif, etc.) , ….. actions all made by players. If negative behaviors continues, nothing ANet do will be enough to fix anything. Not to mention fractals will be harder to join from time to time consider people that are so demanding and inconsiderate.