Guild Wars 2

Everquest had multiple endgame events that were open world, not instanced… Vox, Naggy, Pof, PoH, VS… Hell everything up through PoP was uninstanced on release.

So these don’t count as “raids” either? Wow These were the first things I did that I really considered a raid. I really miss the whole 80+ people raids that we use to have.

If they did not have a limit on party size to tackle a situation or instanced, no they were not raids. They are World Bosses. By some of the definitions seen here, killing a deer in the open world could be called a raid if you had enough people around you all wanting to kill the same deer. I looked up Lineage 2 Raid boss here http://tinyurl.com/a3ay28d and I noticed they were all instanced, I have no clue what the party size limitations in Lineage were.

Killcannon, look up everquest… Look up plane of hate or fear raids, look up any Shadows of luclin raids… Look up Sleepers tomb raids… I could go on, but there is no point. Saying “if theres no party limit” it’s not a raid is silly, this may hold true if your first MMORPG experience is WoW… However games that came long befor WoW had raids that were not instanced.

From what I have read of EQ raids, they were World bosses(although world bosses on par with the most difficult raid content bosses) , could be camped and often were, and didn’t limit encounter size. World Bosses spawn in open World pve, they may require raid size parties to take down, but are not Raids.

Some parts of EQ took hours (ok thats an understatement) to tackle.. Plane of Sky on release was awful… Others such as ST, neerly all POP raids VT, etc were all keyed requiring multiple raids to even gain entry to this raid zone.

Like I said, this is a preWoW players definition vs a postWOW players… An event with no max party size that REQUIRES a massive force, time, communication, and dedication is by the original definition of the MMORPG term, a raid.

Miku.6297:

Killcannon, look up everquest… Look up plane of hate or fear raids, look up any Shadows of luclin raids… Look up Sleepers tomb raids… I could go on, but there is no point. Saying “if theres no party limit” it’s not a raid is silly, this may hold true if your first MMORPG experience is WoW… However games that came long befor WoW had raids that were not instanced.

The same way a steam powered car is still a car. Things change, and so do the meaning of words and their usage, especially in a liquid medium such as games. Eq even changed Raids to become instanced content, I assume to alleviate certain problems. If enough games or even one game comes along that is popular enough or important enough to change lingo for game parlance, then it changes.

But we are looking at content that is currently classified as Raid. If you wish to call the world bosses here raid content, feel free. The devs don’t from what I can see, and most other gamers wouldn’t. It’s indeed possible for people who only play GW2 to call World Bosses raid content. But if people tell their friends who play other games to “Play this game, it has great raid content!” or for the devs or marketing to say such, I can pretty much picture the reaction of those people when seeing the self described raid content here.

World bosses here take no thought, no coordination, and hardly any effort, infact many you can simply tag a few things, than AFK till it dies and get credit….

Im not calling world events here raids, I’m simply disagreeing with your miss use of the term raid.

Miku.6297:

World bosses here take no thought, no coordination, and hardly any effort, infact many you can simply tag a few things, than AFK till it dies and get credit….

Im not calling world events here raids, I’m simply disagreeing with your miss use of the term raid.

And as I said, the term has changed dramatically, not just for other games but also within EQ. And I agree with you, if the content here was similar in scope or difficulty, you could call it a Raid type encounter, but not an actual Raid as the term is used today in gaming lingo.

Miku.6297:

Killcannon, look up everquest… Look up plane of hate or fear raids, look up any Shadows of luclin raids… Look up Sleepers tomb raids… I could go on, but there is no point. Saying “if theres no party limit” it’s not a raid is silly, this may hold true if your first MMORPG experience is WoW… However games that came long befor WoW had raids that were not instanced.

Iirc, GW1 had both 8 & 12 man dungeons. Since raiding in WoW is mostly 10 man affairs atm, it makes for an interesting discussion “post-WoW” on what exactly constitutes a “raid”.

Does it need to have a certain amount of players? How many?
Does it need to be instanced? Why?
Could it scale to number of participating players? If tuned correctly why not?

As stated, WoW isn’t the only template that the MMO genre should hold itself to. There are more MMOs in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Karizee.8076:

Miku.6297:

Killcannon, look up everquest… Look up plane of hate or fear raids, look up any Shadows of luclin raids… Look up Sleepers tomb raids… I could go on, but there is no point. Saying “if theres no party limit” it’s not a raid is silly, this may hold true if your first MMORPG experience is WoW… However games that came long befor WoW had raids that were not instanced.

Iirc, GW1 had both 8 & 12 man dungeons. Since raiding in WoW is mostly 10 man affairs atm, it makes for an interesting discussion “post-WoW” on what exactly constitutes a “raid”.

Does it need to have a certain amount of players? How many?
Does it need to be instanced? Why?
Could it scale to number of participating players? If tuned correctly why not?

As stated, WoW isn’t the only template that the MMO genre should hold itself to. There are more MMOs in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Indeed there are, and Gw1 wasn’t one. I would say, though, that the larger instance groups in GW1 would classify as a raid type encounter. If you could not take any npc henchman or heroes with you. Never played, so I don’t know if you could or not. Want to though. I’m not sure what post wow means though, since it’s still thriving.

I never really got into WOW, the only reason I used that description was because WoW is the place instancing raids really took off (at least to my knowledge).

To me a raid would be: Anything that requires more than 1 group, to work togather, and coordinate startegy to acomplish a task. The key part of this being coordinate/work togather vs run around facerolling due to a GIGANTIC ZERG.

It would be really fun to see some more difficult events here in GW2. Honestly, can the large scale world events fail? Currently they are just a big prety loot pinata.

Arenas…raids…is there a Blizzard logo hidden somewhere?

Miku.6297:

To me a raid would be: Anything that requires more than 1 group, to work togather, and coordinate startegy to acomplish a task. The key part of this being coordinate/work togather vs run around facerolling due to a GIGANTIC ZERG.

It would be really fun to see some more difficult events here in GW2. Honestly, can the large scale world events fail?

Heard of Grenth and Balthazar ?

Yep, but I ment the ones that people typicly farm… Done both Grenth and Balth (not post-change however) How are they now days?

Next time I’ll type out a specific list… Shatterer, Tea Kettle, Claw, SB, Maw, Fire Ele, these are the loot pinata event’s Im talking about…

Except Orr, I’ve never seen the others meta events fail because they are soloable in the low level areas. The dragons can never fail, if they are here and nobody attacks it stay until it dies.

That’s what Im getting at, I think it would be interesting to have the dragons be like the Orr events, or anything else that isn’t a gaurnteed log in smack it loot and leave event.

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Vayne.8563:

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Sigh. Facts? Figures? Guesses? Where does this information come from?

Food for thought :http://www.wowwiki.com/WoW_population_by_country

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Sigh. Facts? Figures? Guesses? Where does this information come from?

Food for thought :http://www.wowwiki.com/WoW_population_by_country

That’s fourth quarter 2011, according to that. The WoW population back then was closer to 12.4 million. During that period to now it’s dropped by about 2 million at least according to the company’s quarterly reports. It was actually down as low as 9.1 million before MoP came out.

I know you find this hard to believe, but I don’t make stuff up. I don’t sit and keep a file of every source I’ve ever seen, but I do in fact read a lot and retain some of it. Yes, I was estimating in what I said, but let’s look at some of this so-called math.

If there were 12 million people when this was done and there are 10 million people now, the question is how many people in the west are still playing the game. Now, this chart you posted shows back then there were 3 million people in the US and 3 million people in china, but also another million between Korea and I think it was Hong Kong.

The point is, when you start adding the figures together, start adding in the annual pass, and look at the drop in sales, this thing you posted from two years ago doesn’t necessarily say anything about what the state of the game is now.

And yes, I could be off even by a million. The fact is, that extra 3 million from back then in China alone gives WoW a higher population than many other games that aren’t available in China, which was part of my point.

I’d be very interested to see an updated version of that breakdown.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Sigh. Facts? Figures? Guesses? Where does this information come from?

Food for thought :http://www.wowwiki.com/WoW_population_by_country

That’s fourth quarter 2011, according to that. The WoW population back then was closer to 12.4 million. During that period to now it’s dropped by about 2 million at least according to the company’s quarterly reports. It was actually down as low as 9.1 million before MoP came out.

I know you find this hard to believe, but I don’t make stuff up. I don’t sit and keep a file of every source I’ve ever seen, but I do in fact read a lot and retain some of it. Yes, I was estimating in what I said, but let’s look at some of this so-called math.

If there were 12 million people when this was done and there are 10 million people now, the question is how many people in the west are still playing the game. Now, this chart you posted shows back then there were 3 million people in the US and 3 million people in china, but also another million between Korea and I think it was Hong Kong.

The point is, when you start adding the figures together, start adding in the annual pass, and look at the drop in sales, this thing you posted from two years ago doesn’t necessarily say anything about what the state of the game is now.

And yes, I could be off even by a million. The fact is, that extra 3 million from back then in China alone gives WoW a higher population than many other games that aren’t available in China, which was part of my point.

I’d be very interested to see an updated version of that breakdown.

I would be interested in seeing an updated version as well. Until then we have what is available. The same as what we have available about GW2 numbers that certain players who get into constant quote battles on the forums use to either prove or disprove their points. The argument you are currently using is what other posters you sometimes disagree with use. Look into the abyss and all that.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Sigh. Facts? Figures? Guesses? Where does this information come from?

Food for thought :http://www.wowwiki.com/WoW_population_by_country

That’s fourth quarter 2011, according to that. The WoW population back then was closer to 12.4 million. During that period to now it’s dropped by about 2 million at least according to the company’s quarterly reports. It was actually down as low as 9.1 million before MoP came out.

I know you find this hard to believe, but I don’t make stuff up. I don’t sit and keep a file of every source I’ve ever seen, but I do in fact read a lot and retain some of it. Yes, I was estimating in what I said, but let’s look at some of this so-called math.

If there were 12 million people when this was done and there are 10 million people now, the question is how many people in the west are still playing the game. Now, this chart you posted shows back then there were 3 million people in the US and 3 million people in china, but also another million between Korea and I think it was Hong Kong.

The point is, when you start adding the figures together, start adding in the annual pass, and look at the drop in sales, this thing you posted from two years ago doesn’t necessarily say anything about what the state of the game is now.

And yes, I could be off even by a million. The fact is, that extra 3 million from back then in China alone gives WoW a higher population than many other games that aren’t available in China, which was part of my point.

I’d be very interested to see an updated version of that breakdown.

I would be interested in seeing an updated version as well. Until then we have what is available. The same as what we have available about GW2 numbers that certain players who get into constant quote battles on the forums use to either prove or disprove their points. The argument you are currently using is what other posters you sometimes disagree with use. Look into the abyss and all that.

I’m going by memory off another article I read. If I remembered where, I’d source it. I don’t, so all I have to go by is my imperfect memory.

The article, however, was more recent than the one posted.

Jski.6180:

Mathias.9657:

Jski.6180:

Mirta.5029:

Jski.6180:

Mirta.5029:

a 5-man story dungeon. There are not going to be any raids in Guild Wars 2.

There are a good number of open world raids.

no, those are group events. A raid is an instanced dungeon designed for a huge amount of people (20, 30..)

Ya same thing just not in an instance it in an open world.

I don’t think raid means what you think it means lol. or are you trolling?

I am not trolling i think ppl views are too WoW minded as in if its not like the way it is in WoW then its not the real way. I am trying to get ppl out of this very non progression for mmorpg mind set. In effect if you want to call it an instanced only event then we have a zone wide instanced because most of these big events take up or use most of the maps that they are in.

Every MMO that has raids are in very controlled environments that require group effort and using your brain to defeat multiple bosses. GW2 has nothing even close to raids and they are certainly not the faceroll world bosses we have. You clearly haven’t raided before, and that’s fine, but please don’t say raids are in this game.

Mathias.9657:

Jski.6180:

Mathias.9657:

Jski.6180:

Mirta.5029:

Jski.6180:

Mirta.5029:

a 5-man story dungeon. There are not going to be any raids in Guild Wars 2.

There are a good number of open world raids.

no, those are group events. A raid is an instanced dungeon designed for a huge amount of people (20, 30..)

Ya same thing just not in an instance it in an open world.

I don’t think raid means what you think it means lol. or are you trolling?

I am not trolling i think ppl views are too WoW minded as in if its not like the way it is in WoW then its not the real way. I am trying to get ppl out of this very non progression for mmorpg mind set. In effect if you want to call it an instanced only event then we have a zone wide instanced because most of these big events take up or use most of the maps that they are in.

Every MMO that has raids are in very controlled environments that require group effort and using your brain to defeat multiple bosses. GW2 has nothing even close to raids and they are certainly not the faceroll world bosses we have. You clearly haven’t raided before, and that’s fine, but please don’t say raids are in this game.

Guild wars 2 has raids, guild bounty comes to mind, and I have raided before in other mmo.
Stop spitting your opinion as a fact.

Vayne.8563:

slugburp.5431:

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

umm I dunno, 9+ million? in a mmo world where every game is forced to go F2P or suffer population issues, and it’s STILL sub based with those numbers

However, 2/3s of that are in china, which has a dearth of other options. Many being counted bought the annual pass to get Diablo 3 for free. In the west, there are probably less than 3 million playing WoW.

It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out when Guild Wars 2 launches in China.

Ive played with some either chinese or korean ppl already, just dont know if they are from here or china. They’re always chatting in asian charaters. Their guikld is pretty much all asians too.

killcannon.2576:

The outside world events aren’t raids anymore than they are dungeons. Raids in mmo parlance have always been instanced events that require more people than a normal instance run. There are world bosses in most mmos, and they aren’t raids either, although you can form Raid Groups to tackle them. The main difference is that anyone can join them, whereas in actual mmo raids they are for the instance group only. The only difficulty involved is taking on the content with an arbitrary amount of individuals. There is no limit here, until you hit server capacity and go to overflow.

If it makes you feel better to think you are “raiding” when you take on a dragon or any other afk/autoattack world boss here, go for it. I would say go load up WoW and try a world boss there, but they have all been dumbed down. If anyone remembers the world dragons from before WotLK, Emeriss and such, they put these dragons to shame, and they still weren’t raids.

And you? Did you try LFR raid in Wow difficult? Does it make it less of a raid because of it level of difficulty? No. People in general seem to have a huge misconception of what a raid really is, and state their opinion like if it was a fact, and calling anyone who doesn’t agree with them troll, or w/e it comes in their mind.

Here, I’ll post some facts from another source then gw2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/World_boss

“These bosses are considered raid bosses since it takes more than a party of 5 players to down them”

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid_bosses

“Raid bosses are bosses which require a raid to defeat. "

“They can be attacked by an indefinite amount of players, though only one group will be able to loot the boss, and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. "

|and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. " (Doesn’t aply to gw2)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Poplolita/achievement#168:15107

Pandaria RAID: http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=6480
World boss .

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid

“The terms “raid” and “raiding” primarily and traditionally refer to PVE raid-specific instances and zones"
Zones.

It’s up to you to make the appropriate conclusion.

Poplolita.2638:

killcannon.2576:

The outside world events aren’t raids anymore than they are dungeons. Raids in mmo parlance have always been instanced events that require more people than a normal instance run. There are world bosses in most mmos, and they aren’t raids either, although you can form Raid Groups to tackle them. The main difference is that anyone can join them, whereas in actual mmo raids they are for the instance group only. The only difficulty involved is taking on the content with an arbitrary amount of individuals. There is no limit here, until you hit server capacity and go to overflow.

If it makes you feel better to think you are “raiding” when you take on a dragon or any other afk/autoattack world boss here, go for it. I would say go load up WoW and try a world boss there, but they have all been dumbed down. If anyone remembers the world dragons from before WotLK, Emeriss and such, they put these dragons to shame, and they still weren’t raids.

And you? Did you try LFR raid in Wow difficult? Does it make it less of a raid because of it level of difficulty? No. People in general seem to have a huge misconception of what a raid really is, and state their opinion like if it was a fact, and calling anyone who doesn’t agree with them troll, or w/e it comes in their mind.

Here, I’ll post some facts from another source then gw2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/World_boss

“These bosses are considered raid bosses since it takes more than a party of 5 players to down them”

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid_bosses

“Raid bosses are bosses which require a raid to defeat. "

“They can be attacked by an indefinite amount of players, though only one group will be able to loot the boss, and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. "

|and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. " (Doesn’t aply to gw2)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Poplolita/achievement#168:15107

Pandaria RAID: http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=6480
World boss .

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid

“The terms “raid” and “raiding” primarily and traditionally refer to PVE raid-specific instances and zones"
Zones.

It’s up to you to make the appropriate conclusion.

LFR trivialized the Raids in WoW. I’m not a care bear kinda player.

Like I said, if it makes you feel better to call stuff in GW2 raids, go for it. Makes no difference to me.

killcannon.2576:

Poplolita.2638:

killcannon.2576:

The outside world events aren’t raids anymore than they are dungeons. Raids in mmo parlance have always been instanced events that require more people than a normal instance run. There are world bosses in most mmos, and they aren’t raids either, although you can form Raid Groups to tackle them. The main difference is that anyone can join them, whereas in actual mmo raids they are for the instance group only. The only difficulty involved is taking on the content with an arbitrary amount of individuals. There is no limit here, until you hit server capacity and go to overflow.

If it makes you feel better to think you are “raiding” when you take on a dragon or any other afk/autoattack world boss here, go for it. I would say go load up WoW and try a world boss there, but they have all been dumbed down. If anyone remembers the world dragons from before WotLK, Emeriss and such, they put these dragons to shame, and they still weren’t raids.

And you? Did you try LFR raid in Wow difficult? Does it make it less of a raid because of it level of difficulty? No. People in general seem to have a huge misconception of what a raid really is, and state their opinion like if it was a fact, and calling anyone who doesn’t agree with them troll, or w/e it comes in their mind.

Here, I’ll post some facts from another source then gw2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/World_boss

“These bosses are considered raid bosses since it takes more than a party of 5 players to down them”

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid_bosses

“Raid bosses are bosses which require a raid to defeat. "

“They can be attacked by an indefinite amount of players, though only one group will be able to loot the boss, and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. "

|and usually a group of 40 players in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor and 25 players in Outland should do the trick. " (Doesn’t aply to gw2)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Poplolita/achievement#168:15107

Pandaria RAID: http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=6480
World boss .

http://www.wowwiki.com/Raid

“The terms “raid” and “raiding” primarily and traditionally refer to PVE raid-specific instances and zones"
Zones.

It’s up to you to make the appropriate conclusion.

Like I said, if it makes you feel better to call stuff in GW2 raids, go for it. Makes no difference to me.

I posted facts, you didn’t. Maybe consider adding IMO in your post next time.

I find it very funny that people are comparing every MMO to WoW. The only reason a lot of MMO’s use the same template as WoW is because it was so successful and they can’t modify the template to make it their own and compete. GW2 is competing though, and has had a very good first year compared to a large amount of MMO’s and probably in line with WoW, even though it has a completely different template.

The only things that are similar are the inclusion of instances in general and parts of the UI but only what is essential in any MMO and to feel comfortable playing one. To say that there are no raids because there are no WoW style raids is just silly because a raid, in general terms, could mean any bosses being killed by a large force, as mentioned before. So in literal terms there are raids and they are the world events.

I don’t know about you lot but I actually play GW2 simply because it’s not WoW. I can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve quit WoW because of the elitist jerks telling me that I can’t play because I was too late after expansion releases, so don’t have the achievement to prove I can do it, therefore I’m a terrible player. Yes there are elitist people in any MMO but nowhere near as much as WoW, and on top of all that I find the combat etc a lot more dynamic and fun in GW.

WoW style does not always make an MMO better and is not always the holy grail, so following that style and saying something isn’t such and such just because it’s not following that same old template is just being blind to different ways. Kinda funny though how people always compare this to WoW. Maybe, just a thought, you should go buy and play WoW instead?

Raids = Challenging PvE content , traditionally instanced and of a size larger then one group.

That should fix this train wreck

Warruz.8096:

Raids = Challenging PvE content , traditionally instanced and of a size larger then one group.

That should fix this train wreck

“Heroic” raid= Challenging PvE content , traditionally instanced and of a size larger then one group.

Fixed for you

This thread is funny… the first “Raids” in MMOs were open world events. Raids are any event in an MMO with 2-3 parties working together. Broaden Your very small minds.

IVIUIEI.9631:

Its 2013 who do u know still plays wow

H8ters gonna hate I guess, I am no fan of WoW by any means what so ever but anyone who doesn’t realize WoW is king of MMO’s is just H8ting.

I will say however is that GW2 is the best MMO I have played in a long while, will be probably be playing for a long time.

As soon as the word “raid” is mentioned people think of the WoW type raid.
Which is far from an original idea. GW2 open world events are raids in the way raids were back in DaoC, same with WvW really, it’s also DaoC inspired.

People saying WoW raids are the only real raids are fools. Darkness Falls, now that was a raid where you had to be on your toes. Not due to monsters all the time, although they got deadly the deeper you went, but due to enemy players from two other factions. There was no need to group up into WoW-style raid groups, you just tagged along GW2 style, killed stuff, people, monsters and claimed loot.

WoW type raids are just one type in a long line of raid encounters. GW2 open world boss events are just as much raids as WoW raids.

But then again I’m not surprised those comments come from WoW. They also whine on the forums about braindead boss mechanics and compare dungeon bosses here to raid bosses in WoW instead of comparing them to 5 man bosses from WoW. Both being equally simple when you know the mechanics.

And Amun Ra. Saying WoW is the king of MMOs is like saying Bieber is the king of music. Even within the MMO genre there are sub genres, where games dont need to be mainstream like WoW to be successful, especially not the ones that follow a non-subscription plan. WoW must have a huge playerbase, otherwise they’d lose hundreds of millions $ per month. So they cater to a larger crowd, much like pop artists.

GW2 = Metal
WoW = Po(o)p

Miku.6297:

World bosses here take no thought, no coordination, and hardly any effort, infact many you can simply tag a few things, than AFK till it dies and get credit….

Im not calling world events here raids, I’m simply disagreeing with your miss use of the term raid.

It’s still a raid, but it doesn’t take any tactics. It just takes numbers with everyone spamming their skills.

A raid with tactics would be like the Roman Army.
A zerg in GW2 would be like the barbarian hordes.

That’s basically GW2 summed up with large-scale content.

SneakyErvin.3056:

And Amun Ra. Saying WoW is the king of MMOs is like saying Bieber is the king of music. Even within the MMO genre there are sub genres, where games dont need to be mainstream like WoW to be successful, especially not the ones that follow a non-subscription plan. WoW must have a huge playerbase, otherwise they’d lose hundreds of millions $ per month. So they cater to a larger crowd, much like pop artists.

GW2 = Metal
WoW = Po(o)p

This was funny. To be honest, to each their own; it’s OK to like Bieber, but it is indeed silly to proclaim him as the “best” just because he can be popular. (To be fair, IMHO less people like metal than they like GW2-it is a fairly misunderstood genre, especially classic metal-though the comparison still stands.)

Even within GW2, some people like pop-metal (seeking only rewards, “progression”, etc.) while others delve deep into Thrash, Speed, etc. instead (gamers who play and enjoy GW2 for fun, doing their own thing, playing whichever way they like, vs doing what everybody else does, and/or following FotM builds, etc.) (BTW, this is just a funny comparison, not made to infuriate anyone-play GW2 any way you please.)

No offense to Bieber fans either: just be true to yourself and like what you like. :P

Yea it’s funny a raid now has to be10 people in an instance because that’s how wow does it now.
The term raid to me suggest a lot of people attacking something, doesn’t really matter where or how many buttons are involved. In Everquest I remember the top 3 guilds on my server teaming up to kill a god. Thier was around 100 of us, we wiped multiple times, you couldn’t see anything in all the lag. I spammed my 5 necro pacts on main tank whole time, while pet attacked boss. Seemed more like a raid to me with a massive army fighting a boss out in the world way cooler than a 10man instance.

After being killed some bosses would stay dead for weeks in Everquest. Wow wanted to fix the lag problem and the waitting for bosses to respawn problem. So they made 40mans in instances. Later they decided 40 people was to hard to cordinate so they downsized it to a small group.

I think the main reason people don’t see guild wars 2 world bosses as raids is the difficulty. I would even say some bosses need to be so hard their almost impossible to beat. Gives people something to strive for. Something to try as they get better.

Daralf.4930:

Yea it’s funny a raid now has to be10 people in an instance because that’s how wow does it now.
The term raid to me suggest a lot of people attacking something, doesn’t really matter where or how many buttons are involved. In Everquest I remember the top 3 guilds on my server teaming up to kill a god. Thier was around 100 of us, we wiped multiple times, you couldn’t see anything in all the lag. I spammed my 5 necro pacts on main tank whole time, while pet attacked boss. Seemed more like a raid to me with a massive army fighting a boss out in the world way cooler than a 10man instance.

After being killed some bosses would stay dead for weeks in Everquest. Wow wanted to fix the lag problem and the waitting for bosses to respawn problem. So they made 40mans in instances. Later they decided 40 people was to hard to cordinate so they downsized it to a small group.

I think the main reason people don’t see guild wars 2 world bosses as raids is the difficulty. I would even say some bosses need to be so hard their almost impossible to beat. Gives people something to strive for. Something to try as they get better.

Totally agreed. Guild wars 2 world dragon bosses are too easy.

I agree and did write out a whole thing about this but it signed me out when I went to post it! But, basically, those familiar with FFXI or even unfamiliar with but read a lot of news will know about Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden. These bosses were designed to be beaten but not for a very long time and it took about 5 years for people to reliably kill AV. Of course, hardcore MMO players will walk through fire to beat something in the game so spent well over 24 hours in one fight without sleep or rest which led to illness and it being in the news.

While these are extreme examples of tough bosses, they really did give everyone a challenge and required a lot of coordination, usually only the FFXI equivalent of guilds would turn up to fight it because unless you had that level of coordination you were doomed to fail. Getting to Absolute Virtue was not very different from the way world events work now in GW2, in the fact that it was open world, anyone could go and watch (albeit with a high risk of dying) and it would pop after the first boss died, which was a LOT easier than absolute virtue.

I don’t think adding a boss on that scale would benefit GW2 but something along those lines where it maybe has the same HP as a world boss but used moves that would insta-kill anyone in the AoE area unless they had some kind of buff only available to guardians, or gained resistances for set times where no damage could physically be done so there will be that time where damage is pointless, or even just certain damage giving magic classes times where they are more useful or when bullets do more etc.

I’m in no way complaining about the game as it is, I love it! I could happily play for ages because I played FFXI for so many years, along with WoW etc and I got fed up of having to be elitist to even get the opportunity to play in raids etc. I do think though, having the opportunity to attempt a boss that was very difficult, but possible to kill would add a whole new level to this game and make it even better with more variety and will probably bring the community together more. The only thing I will say is that if a boss like this is made, it shouldn’t have game breaking items attached to it, so that it’s more for fun than achieving anything but I don’t think ANet would ever have game breaking items in mind anyway.