Guild Wars 2

Freewind.1859:

I will drop the mandatory statement here then “Learn to play your character properly”
Dungeons will just become a little harder, after the nerf on Alpha’s hp I expect the fight to be much MUCH easier. This also gives people less incentive to skip mobs due to risking people dying randomly.
Great change imo

Impact on skipping stuff would be minimal. If someone dies they’ll just have to wait a bit longer before they can res. Unless you are referring to groups that are going to try to skip the whole dungeon.

Invis Kits.

/thread.

Writetyper.1985:

Nialiss.6459:

Lupicus is going to be so much fun now. It great that no one will ever take a new person to do Arah now. At least I already got several sets from there. GJ Anet! (/end sarcasm).

I once took a group of 4 people who had never done arah before into path 2. Lupi got 3 stacks of grubs. Nobody died.

You’re doing Arah with the wrong people. It’s not an easy dungeon.

It’s acutally laughably easy (and boring if you’ve done it over 100 times). I’m just concerned with new people trying to do it. I also don’t PuG Arah.

Why don’t we see how newbies and pugs handle it before launching into hysterics on their behalf? :p

Yeah, more tactic would be nice, but i see a few big problems with this.

1.: Bad Groups, especially the beginner ini ac… It goes great with five 80s and even with lower levels near to 80 the problems are rather low. But with level 35 and near this level (or with an idiotic glass-cannon-build…) you will die more often and especially if the waypoint is nearly (like in ac) it is rather endureable to have such a weak player if you at least don’t have to rezz him.

• The disliking of non-80-players will grow and in pugs players that die a lot and cannot even run anymore will be thrown out more often.
• If the player is weak and the group is strong, it can be more effective to ignore the defeated weak player and without the chance to run, this weak player often won’t get any loot.
• It may is not your idea of fighting, but a real good player sometimes can handle a hard situation well alone, giving the other players the time to run. On the other side, even a real good player isn’t able to rezz his whole team.

2.: Some situations a incredible problematic. It may doesnt happen often, but it happens:

• A player runs in a dumb situation (traps, foes, especially happens, if you dont know the dungeon to well) and because this wasn’t itended, the rest of the team may were still somwhere else (ported back to repair their armor) and can’t help this player in trouble.
• Sometimes you have aggro and can’t loose the aggro although the foe is not only fallowing you anymore. If you cant handle the situation (dead ones in foes group and you cant go anywhere without running into foes), you have to get killed, damaging the amor, to port again.
• It is common to run away to heal yourself and also sometimes you fall down somwhere. Both make it possible to come in a situation, where your dead ally lies in a horrible position unlikely to make it worth to rezz him. Also sometimes fleeing to hinder your death ends in a situation where you end in another foe group or in a place with many traps, making it impossible to rezz you.

I really can understand the reason, why you dont want us to run instead of rezzing, but i really like the actual situation. Cant you give a strong debuff (50% less damage after porting for the time the group is in combat or so) or a strong buff for rezzing from defeated state?

Leo G.4501:

I’m so excited about this change! I can’t wait to give this a try in some PuGs.

The only thing I’d suggest to change along with this is downed penalty needs to go. That or the duration needs to be decreased. Need to encourage rezzing, even from death, but when you get downed you’re more likely to go right back into downed until you finally spiral down to death.

That’s pretty much my thought on it as well.

WP rushing was a bad and unfun part of dungeon runs, but they’re something that has been encouraged by other mechanics. I can name several bosses in story mode alone that have what are effectively one-shot kills – the hawks in HotW do more than full health to characters with lower health, meaning you pretty much can only survive if you have near full health and a heal recharged when you’re hit, and Kudu in CoE story has a one-shot kill.

More significantly, though, the time to revive someone who’s defeated is punitative. A situation where someone is defeated in the first place is, simply put, a situation where it simply isn’t safe for another player to spend thirty seconds or so helplessly sitting in one spot attempting to revive them. Res-rushing needed to be removed, but it needs to be as part of a package which makes reviving defeated players in combat actually viable, otherwise the removal of WP-rushing is going to push most of the playerbase out of dungeons entirely.

One possible solution could be to have the option to pick up defeated players in combat – maybe as a second pressing of F after you start reviving. This would allow one player to pick up another player, carry them to a safe location, and then put them back down and resume reviving.

This is going to kill PuGs. Just wait and see. Nobody is going to want to take someone new into a dungeon, or even someone they suspect doesn’t know it well, because to do so is to condemn your group to taking 5 or 10 times longer to complete it because so many battles will have to be done over.

All for the sake of a tactic that was a choice and didn’t hurt anyone.

well any ranger who uses search and rescue is going to be popular in dungeons now :P

No wp in the dungeons is a terrible change. I’m a casual guy (girl) and I am already frustrated about this!! There should be a choice – like Hard mode in the last gw.

Everyone is assuming that Anet are removing res-running and not addressing the rest of the issues with the dungeons. They are just choosing to fix one issue at a time. Res-running is clearly a silly mechanic, why on earth should you be able to have unlimited lives when facing an encounter?

People will just have to man up I think, and personally i’d love to see people who only care about speed-run farming actually do something else with their lives.

This is a poor move as it reduces the possible strategies and open a wide door to elitism (read some answers here and you’ll see what i mean) while GW2 should be fun for all and not just the pro dungeon-runners.

Quoting the article :
““Res-rushing” is when a player uses a waypoint to resurrect immediately after being defeated in a dungeon and then runs back to the fight, instead of waiting for their party members to resurrect them.”

Then REMOVE the aggro from res !!!

Or you can just buy a revive Orb from TP.

Zlociutki.9165:

Or you can just buy a revive Orb from TP.

You’re welcome to mail them to me.

I disagree that GW2 is being re-worked for hardcore players. There is more to GW2 than dungeon running. If you take away difficult challenges from the game, then what the hell are the more organised players going to do?

I like this change, everyone being able to run back in during a boss fight negates any difficulty on the boss in a lot of cases and it just turns into a dps race alongside a race to make sure there is at least one person still alive before someone runs back into the fight.

Any change that increases team work and tactics is good, remember a lot of players are still not even working together on combo-fields etc. so changes like this will encourage people to co-ordinate and stand withing those combo fields instead of being scattered around the room.

EDIT: Also a lot of professions have abilities that will instantly revive a downed player, they don’t get used often, this will mean those skills get put on the action bars and used.

There seems to be a bug with this new feature.

It won’t let people wp when the team exits combat. This means mainly, if someone dies on a part people run past you have to go back and rez them otherwise wait for everyone to eventually die.

I can see this being a real pain for some things such a SE where people skip the bridge part.

The thing that bothers me most was that when dying and having to run back to ‘tag’ the boss to make sure after you died you still get loot was anoying. What will happen to this now?

‘With this upcoming change, defeated players will be unable to use waypoints’

So unless u are with friendly people who will go out of combat and/or res you or let you portal you can go tag him and get ya loot…

Seeing how I run with pugs a lot I highly doubt that will EVER happen… lately it’s all about quick killing and rushing to the end … I see a lot of people just being left for dead while the other 4 or 3 handle the boss themselfs (because that is totally do-able even with 2 man the AC dungeon can be done as I have seen it myself)…

I see myself being that unlucky dead person a lot too and since I only run the dungeons for the loot/money to be able to keep up with the rich basterds I see this is going to be a problem.

Gelltor.3015:

well any ranger who uses search and rescue is going to be popular in dungeons now :P

Search and rescue fails HORRIBLY! It needs to be fixed. Also the rangers downed skill called lick wounds fails all the time. It’s really annoying.

Now people will actually have to figure out the game to get through dungeons. Keep up the good work Anet.

I’m not sure why people find Subject Alpha so hard, he always releases his AoEs in specific amount of time (I typically count 5 before dodge rolling, but this depends on how fast you count)…the tetris app on my phone is harder because you can’t predict what’s coming next unlike Alpha…or any other dungeon bosses.

There are obviously a lot of pros and cons to the WP issue.

Question though: what would people think about having the WP mechanic where you can’t res whilst party is in combat scale in difficulty?

Allow modes of difficulty, and appropriate achievements, that mean you can turn the feature on or off according to how your group wants to play?

Scoundrel.2139:

There are obviously a lot of pros and cons to the WP issue.

Question though: what would people think about having the WP mechanic where you can’t res whilst party is in combat scale in difficulty?

Allow modes of difficulty, and appropriate achievements, that mean you can turn the feature on or off according to how your group wants to play?

It would make more sense.
Beginners would be able to do their first dung run and die and wp.
Skilled dung runners would have a challenging mode with wp disabled while in combat… and better rewards, of course.

No, as much as I hate the frustrating dungeon runs, this change is good and it shouldn’t be an option on any difficulty mode. However, we DO need difficulty modes at some point because on one hand you have people pugging into groups with people they don’t know, with no voice chat and multiple players that don’t know the dungeon and on the other you have elite guilds who have played many MMOs, sharpened their builds and technique to a fine point and drilled themselves into dungeon clearing machines. Unless you have difficulty scaling, it’s obvious that anything remotely finishable by one group is going to be boringly trivial to another.

My proposal would be to track each player’s dungeon completion in a way similar to fractals. Then, when the group enters, average out the values of the participants and scale each dungeon like a fractal. That way, regular groups that slam through the content as it currently is can go higher and higher up the scale until everything oneshots them and drown in glory and prestige while beginning dungeon runners will be able to start in an environment that allows mistakes and be eased into things.

And that really is the problem – there’s nothing wrong with the difficulty for experienced, coordinated groups, it’s that there’s no way to learn.

Gelltor.3015:

well any ranger who uses search and rescue is going to be popular in dungeons now :P

Or better yet, just get players that know what they are doing! No need to even res anyone in the first place.

Writetyper.1985:

Thunderscape.3859:

Writetyper.1985:

dablo.9546:

How are we suposed to do cof path 2 now?

By not being extremely bad. Is it so wrong that dungeons were designed for people who use two hands and a brain to play? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/CoF-Path-2-kiting-event-strategy-request/first#post1161478

I for one am extremely glad that they have removed this extremely stupid mechanic. It basically encourages the mindset that every encounter in a dungeon is just a time buffer, because you can’t lose, you just waypoint and run back. What happened to challenge in games? What do you people actually find fun about autoattacking, dying, and then zerging right back there? Is this honestly enjoyable to you people? I see the WoW generation has been relying on having bigger numbers to get through fights, now you actually have to (shock! Horror) play better.

I do CoF every single day with my guild, and in path 2 i always kill the mobs, its really easy for full exotic people with a good DPS.

Try know with a pug with green items… this is supposed to be doable for new players too.

My problem is not the difficulty. i think some dungeons are way to easy like cof path 1, or AC.

So why not buff the bosses? with harder mechanics, disable WP seems like a bad ideia.

Try doing a level 80 dungeon with an unprepared, ungeared and unwilling group? Now why would I want to do that, am I trying to fail?

I can’t believe anyone supports waypoint zerging. It’s like you’re trying to make dungeon running robotic.

Because everyone at one point in their gw2 career was unprepared and ungeared.

That is the whole point of people doing those dungeons, for TOKENS so they can GET GEARED.

Are you telling me those people need to have the full exotic gears that they don’t have in order to run those dungeons in order to get those exotic gears?

DeathPanel.8362:

Because everyone at one point in their gw2 career was unprepared and ungeared.

That is the whole point of people doing those dungeons, for TOKENS so they can GET GEARED.

Are you telling me those people need to have the full exotic gears that they don’t have in order to run those dungeons in order to get those exotic gears?

Actually, that’s what the devs are telling : don’t run a dung if you’re not already geared (but then i’m trying to figure what’s the point of running a dung if we’re already geared….).

holloweaver.7460:

DeathPanel.8362:

Because everyone at one point in their gw2 career was unprepared and ungeared.

That is the whole point of people doing those dungeons, for TOKENS so they can GET GEARED.

Are you telling me those people need to have the full exotic gears that they don’t have in order to run those dungeons in order to get those exotic gears?

Actually, that’s what the devs are telling : don’t run a dung if you’re not already geared (but then i’m trying to figure what’s the point of running a dung if we’re already geared….).

This is my views as well, why have level limits on these things if everyone must be 80 geared, then what is the point of running them when your already geared?

To make money, but you’ve already made money to be geared…

holloweaver.7460:

Actually, that’s what the devs are telling : don’t run a dung if you’re not already geared (but then i’m trying to figure what’s the point of running a dung if we’re already geared….).

Exactly my point. The devs and the elitests here have totally missed the whole point.

People run dungeons for TOKENS FOR THEIR GEAR, not have gear first then run dungeons.

If you balance dungeons against full teams of full exotics/ascended geared players with VOIP then you’ve just ailenated 90%+ of your player base.

Actually i wouldn’t be surprised if it was so the revive orbs suddenly become a needed item and start selling like hot cakes.

I just hope with this change. The population of GW2 will not faulter and fall. I am reeeally hoping it doesn’t. It is such a beautiful and amazing MMO. prays

I love this new update. Dieing actually means something now, instead of; “oh.. guess I have to run back now.”

Just did some dungeons, and CoE is actually a lot easier now, fighting Alpha is like having constant Time Warp up, he dies that fast! CoE is pretty farmable now when you compare completion times.

Mindless zerg in CoF p2? Learn to do damage and survive. Call targets, focus fire on the flame guys.

DeathPanel.8362:

holloweaver.7460:

Actually, that’s what the devs are telling : don’t run a dung if you’re not already geared (but then i’m trying to figure what’s the point of running a dung if we’re already geared….).

Exactly my point. The devs and the elitests here have totally missed the whole point.

People run dungeons for TOKENS FOR THEIR GEAR, not have gear first then run dungeons.

If you balance dungeons against full teams of full exotics/ascended geared players with VOIP then you’ve just ailenated 90%+ of your player base.

Before I had exotics, I ran all these dungeons with Rares and green trinkets, no problem (I actually still have green trinkets). And yes, even Arah. It’s a combination of knowing/learning enemies attack patterns so you can dodge properly (and not waste it on useless things and be out of energy all the time), having a good trait setup, and the right utility’s at the right time. Obviously these things come with experience.

People need to fail these dungeons horribly, learn what they’re doing wrong and why they’re dying, adapt and succeed.

dablo.9546:

Srsly this is just not ok, dungeons were hard enough before but this is just too much. How are we suposed to do cof path 2 now? Please remove this, this just make the 5 man dungeons 10x harder than they were before and even then they were hard. What are your thoughts on this?

uggg…..If every aspect of a game is easy to new players, why would people stick around? —dungeons were hard enough before-- a matter of opinion, one that I do not share.

with this many complaints,do you think they will remove this no wp crap?dungeons are harder then it is =w=

Charming Rogue.8071:

Before I had exotics, I ran all these dungeons with Rares and green trinkets, no problem (I actually still have green trinkets). And yes, even Arah. It’s a combination of knowing/learning enemies attack patterns so you can dodge properly (and not waste it on useless things and be out of energy all the time), having a good trait setup, and the right utility’s at the right time. Obviously these things come with experience.

People need to fail these dungeons horribly, learn what they’re doing wrong and why they’re dying, adapt and succeed.

Except it’s not possible anymore : you fail (i.e. : you’re dead), you lay on the ground and wait…
There’s no experience when you’re forced to lay uselessly on the ground.

Wow…me and my (guildie) party just tried to run CoF Path 2. It is WAY harder than before…almost unreasonably so.

We are a very co-operative party, we collaborate via voice chat and we play together often. We can run most dungeons with a reasonable amount of difficulty. We have two people who are level 80 and are both wearing a full set of exotic gear, and trying to defend Magg while he’s placing the Bomb is STILL nearly impossible.

We tried it about 8 or 10 times and no matter how we strategized it, no matter who did what, or who kited where, or who defended who, we couldn’t get Magg to live long enough to place the bomb. The combination of the horde of Flame Legion on top of the MULTIPLE assassins that sneak up make this way too bloody difficult. My repair bill on my exotic armor after all was said and done was NOT worth what I got out of it.

I’ve given up on P2 and will run P1 from now on.

Edit to clarify: Our entire party is level 80. The two people I was referring to were wearing exotics. The rest of the party was 80, but wearing something less than exotic.

FlareHeart.4360:

We have two people who are level 80

end game content man…only 2 have even gotten to top level.

Bombul.2506:

FlareHeart.4360:

We have two people who are level 80

end game content man…only 2 have even gotten to top level.

It’s a level 75 dungeon…so the level 80 players who DON’T have the exotic armor should be fine right? Well nope. We had an entire party of 80s (only two had their exotics). We should have been fine.

We can run Fractals! But for some reason now CoF P2 is harder than Fractals!

dungeons all over were long and annoying challenge to me so far, even story were pain for nothing much, IMO.
run from far WP, Arah is champion but others are not much better, was very painful experience for me.
with new update we gonna wait till last guy is dead to start run, which is, IMO again, way more annoying.
don’t get me wrong but I don’t see resurrect ability in this game, I just see health refill which take ages to to.
may be dungeon is not part of fun here but hard challenge appreciated only by elitest people?
then please let us know so we gonna stop try.
I know how WoW failed with introducing hard dungeons in Cataclysm map, I can give more examples of games fail because they made too challenging dungeons, and people just stopped to play them and left game short after.
I think this game need to give us more fun stuff to do, which mean EASY mod and not hard mod as you, guys, try to put now, sorry to tell.
If you need to make hard challenges, please add Hard Mod like it was used at GW.
To me dungeon is like 20-30 min fun relaxing run and not 2-3 hours painful challenge (this calls raid to me).
Again it’s only my opinion, and nobody need to listen, as I can just move to anything more fun instate try to correct something here…
IMO: you want to win = make it fun for all, and hard only for few; you want to loose = make it hard for all and fun only for few.
I don’t want to offence anyone or flame about anything, just share my point of view based on like 10 years of gaming and many games played.

But laying on the ground and waiting can become somewhat annoying. And waiting, and waiting, and waiting… there has to be a better way to make the dungeons more challenging other than this.

Xersis.3478:

But laying on the ground and waiting can become somewhat annoying. And waiting, and waiting, and waiting… there has to be a better way to make the dungeons more challenging other than this.

Also people will mostly not play til they do something about this..dungeons is the only thing people play and to level up faster lol

i have the answer to every ones problems .. stop playing GW2 … or at least the dungeons thats what the dev team wants us to really do so they dont have to put any more work on fixing things ,, if not one plays them no need to do any thing about it..

shonn.5037:

i have the answer to every ones problems .. stop playing GW2 … or at least the dungeons thats what the dev team wants us to really do so they dont have to put any more work on fixing things ,, if not one plays them no need to do any thing about it..

Plenty of players don’t have any trouble with dungeons…But if you want to give up instead of learning, it’s your choice.

Ok after reading all of posts, i can finally make my own.
I totally agree with the meaning of dungeons = challenge.
but what i disagree with = frustration.
Basically all of the dungeons can be done quite easily because they were nerfed. But just imagine that weaker guildies would like to play Arah with you. We all know lupicus is just RNG fest. Of course, after you have done it a lot of times, its getting easier, still, it is rng that decides if you do it or not. It is kinda impossible to revive players while boss is always targeting downed ones. And since all of his attacks are aoe, this fight will be just a mess. As i said. I think 90% of dungeons are ok with the mechanics. And maybe this update will finally teach players the teamwork. On the other hand, if nothing happens to lupicus difficulty, arah becomes even more annoying dungeon than it is.

My guild do many dungeon runs and we do very well as a team, but there are always times where chance beats us and someone gets down. This will make dungeons a hit or miss in terms of the duration it will take to complete them.

Problem I’m finding with rezing party members is that I then become the target and in most cases while during combat die aswell..as it takes too much time to stop rezing..dodge and roll away…especially during the boss fights. when a player is downed..takes too long to revive himself without alot of assistence..ie: another x2 players (thats why players are stacking most boss’s). Sugestion – reduce rezing time/boss AOE?

Magistrella.6970:

Dungeons

Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.

what the freck?

Sryously? We die in a bad spot in a boss fight where you can not be rezzed (say, in the Lava in the Flame Citadel because we got knocked in by accident) and pay the repair cost of 1s+ and have to watch our comrades eventually wipe because we could not rejoin and helplessly watch them waste away?

You made a system with no designated healers which keep people alive but now practically force us to seek for certain builds, like a heal ele or a support guardian, to do certain bosses. Something like, let’s say Subject Alpha in CoE, which is just a major pain in the butt with feeled hundreds of too big AoE circles that hit a glasscanon for 3-5k each. Wasn’t your motto that ANY group could do ANYTHING. Well we tried that with a mix of 5 dps and barely even made the last boss even tho we could run back in CoE path 2 and practically zergrun it. Now people can come and say “that we are bad players”. Sure, but personally i dont think so. We rarely die, and we just get overwhelmed by a over powered boss easily if it goes bananas because we have no tank or healer with us on a regular basis.

oh well jeez im ranting too much…

in a nutshell:

In my eyes a BAD decision which will cause much frustration to many casual players out there. I like taking casual guys because you could just say when they died: “No worries. Port <insert Waypoint name> there and join back in the fight.” now you have to struggle (rezzing solo takes what? 30 seconds?) to get them back up and hope they dont get downed while they are still at red damage level

meh ok now for sure /rant off

Everything else i am pretty happy with as far as the changes concern me and the way i am playing, even tho a friend is biting his own kitten as the rich ori vein got changed and he didnt get his 500 ingots for twilight yet xD

Greetz (‘-’)/

p.s. you can write butt but will get a kitten on a double-s? :O

This change makes it so that death is actually an important factor. You can’t just die and come back, you actually have to think now or pay the price.

The motto is every class can do anything, not every group. If you go in with a bunch of DPS Spec’d classes, then you’re all going to take a lot of damage. Woah, big surprise. Each class brings it’s own support to the table, a Thief stealthing you and mitigating threat will now be useful since you can’t just die and come back.

Support roles will be important now too! I benefit from this, I love playing support roles. Before it was just a DPS zergfest because you wanted to get the dungeon over with, now it actually requires just a little bit of thought, depending on the dungeon.

The dungeons were already way too easy, a change like this makes perfect sense. If you can’t handle it, practice.

Zlociutki.9165:

Or you can just buy a revive Orb from TP.

Revive orbs take a long time and leave you a sitting duck afterwards. They’re really not actually all that useful.

Skills that instantly res downed players also aren’t all that useful because they only instantly res downed players – a lot of time, a player who’s downed against a dungeon boss is dead only moments later.

As an experienced mmo player, this change really doesn’t affect me much. I expect such treatment in dungeons, and I’m able to not die and communicate / prioritize reviving with my group.

However, one of the best things for me has been that so many RL friends, who are casual to extreme novices when it comes to MMOs, have purchased and play this game.

They are not used to these types of mechanics nor are they willing to endure them. They enjoyed playing dungeons before, because they knew even if they died they weren’t a burden on other players. Now, they feel bad and are hesitant to go in. They were never going to try fractals precisely because of that mechanic. Imho, it was a nice thing to have fractal only, since that dungeon was meant to be the endgame dungeon for character progression.

The points people make about not having a trinity are also valid. In other games, if someone died it was due to an AE that was always meant to hit all players, or the tank lost aggro, or the tank went down. A ranger pew pewing was not likely to get the brunt of the attacks. The main thing this change will accomplish is people implementing a trinity when going to do dungeons. They will want a guardian or warrior + elementalist / necro / another guardian / maybe support ranger / mesmer then 3 dps types. Please do not make this change to the game!

I think this change affects gear choices as well. No longer will you want people to use dps oriented gear. The dps lost while a player is downed now directly affects others’ dps, so you’ll want everyone to have max mitigation.

Additionally, weaker hp and less utility oriented classes may not be favored when pugs are making groups. Why take a thief with only 12k hp when you could just as easily take a warrior, when even dps spec’d has 22k?

You may very well turn your anyone can play anything and accomplish goals game into a tank and support focused dungeon game very quickly

People who only do dungeons with VOIP with their level 80 guildmates with full exotic and ascended gear sit on their high horse and tell everyone else the level 35 dungeon they have personally done 30 or more times is “easy” and are baffled why anyone would say its hard. I’ve never been part of an MMO community that was so out of touch.

Ppl who qq, start communicating and get better at your own game! And if you wipe you try again, simple as that. Ppl complain about lack of endgame (=hard content) and then when stuff is actually challenging and you need to work together to beat it ppl complain about that instead… Gaming psychology is interesting