Guild Wars 2

In order for a path to be ignored completely, its reward must be greatly out of scale with its difficulty/length. I have seen plenty of groups do all four Arah paths because they are extremely profitable despite the relative length of path 4.

With that said, we can all agree that almost nobody does Honor of the Waves beyond path 1. The aquatic final battles in paths 2 and 3 take forever and are incredibly dull, and furthermore the end rewards are no better than those of other “normal” dungeons that can be completed much faster. I say it’s time to give HotW 2 and 3 an overhaul.

I am aware that the issue stems from the uninspired nature of underwater combat in general, but that’s a much larger fish that I don’t want to reel in right now. Baby steps!

There is no amount of reward that could make me do hotw p2 and p3 again. Not even 30 gold per run in the daily chest would make me feel like doing it. My thinking on underwater combat : anet should just plainly admit the whole idea was a mistake and remove everything from the game. Replace all underwater content with better maps. Remove capricorn in PVP, remove the underwater fractal (that no one runs anyway because they roll swamp), remove hotw p2/p3, remove all mobs from underwater open world and remove underwater combat mechanics, only allowing underwater exploration.

Fixing underwater combat to make it fun would require so much change to the current skill sets / add a variety of skills / missing abilities replaced that it would be too much work put into a section of the game that is not worth it when much more important things need to be changed already. So just admit it’s a mistake and delete everything. Even 1h of dev work put into underwater is 1h that is wasted compared to time that could be put into revamping dungeon bosses, mobs, PVP build balance etc.

Nikaido.3457:

There is no amount of reward that could make me do hotw p2 and p3 again. Not even 30 gold per run in the daily chest would make me feel like doing it. My thinking on underwater combat : anet should just plainly admit the whole idea was a mistake and remove everything from the game. Replace all underwater content with better maps. Remove capricorn in PVP, remove the underwater fractal (that no one runs anyway because they roll swamp), remove hotw p2/p3, remove all mobs from underwater open world and remove underwater combat mechanics, only allowing underwater exploration.

Fixing underwater combat to make it fun would require so much change to the current skill sets / add a variety of skills / missing abilities replaced that it would be too much work put into a section of the game that is not worth it when much more important things need to be changed already. So just admit it’s a mistake and delete everything. Even 1h of dev work put into underwater is 1h that is wasted compared to time that could be put into revamping dungeon bosses, mobs, PVP build balance etc.

Yea…every word of this is true.

such hyperbole…

underwater combat is an option. no need to take it away.

I don’t have a problem with the underwater combat actually. I do have a problem with the general HotW boss HP total issue that is present in all paths. They have way to many HP and its not like they really do anything challenging enough or phases that would require having so many HP. Take away the punching bag boss fights that never end and the paths really aren’t any more challenging or much longer than others. Hell most of them can be skipped including all of the undewater trashmobs.

I forget which one it is (I really haven’t done 2 and 3 in forever), but I do remember one of them being pretty short (time wise) if you skip properly. But the last boss takes a bit longer than most and is more boring, so it feels like the entire path takes longer in comparison to others.

I like underwater content. It is very immersive and atmospheric. The combat is ok, I don’t understand what’s the problem with it.

The problem is really with the huge HP pool of the bosses. Especially HotW p2 is such a super boring annoying path with those two ice cube monsters taking ages to kill and then the one other boss that’s annoying (though at least a bit more interesting mechanics-wise). The last boss is extremely boring and has a kittenload of HP with no different phases – 5-10 minuntes of the same 3-4 attacks. I remember when I ran this path the first time – I couldn’t imagine how Anet could pass this as ‘good’ or ‘playable’. But then that came pretty often to my mind.

Take some ideas from other games. There are only a handful of interesting bosses in this game. The rest are just huge HP sponges with utterly boring mechanics.

ProtoGunner, you only have to kill the second monster in path 2, the first one can be skipped as it doesn’t restrict gate access like the first one does.

The only think I can think of when i do HotW paths (all 3) is that the only reason why the bosses have so many HP is for time gating purposes. I mean most of the dungeon can be skipped and if they had HP pools similar to even arah the paths would all be done in 5 minutes by even non FGS rushing groups.

Nikaido.3457:

There is no amount of reward that could make me do hotw p2 and p3 again. Not even 30 gold per run in the daily chest would make me feel like doing it.

I agree with your sentiment overall, but I’d totally run it daily for 30g.

I run these paths almost daily with PUGs.

On certain classes (namely Ele) I enjoy underwater combat, but there are some (Guardian) where it is alot less interesting.

Some classes are just really dull underwater (warrior and guardian). However necro is a lot of fun and op as kitten. I dont think underwater combat is bad, I think the lack of build choice underwater is what causes the problems. Half your utilities dont work and you only have 1 or 2 weapons to choose from.

I actually don’t mind p2 and p3. It’s just that, as others have already said, the bosses have way too much HP. They’re not particularly dangerous, but they take forever to die, no matter what.

I like doing HotW p2 and p3… The problem is that noone I know wants to run them

Spoj The Second.7680:

Some classes are just really dull underwater (warrior and guardian). However necro is a lot of fun and op as kitten. I dont think underwater combat is bad, I think the lack of build choice underwater is what causes the problems. Half your utilities dont work and you only have 1 or 2 weapons to choose from.

Agree with both of these problems—some professions just aren’t much fun underwater and it sucks when you can’t use the skills you like.

I think it’s pretty clear that Anet aren’t interested in further developing underwater content at this point, which is a shame, because I think it has potential (and I actually do like it a lot on some professions). New weapon sets never have underwater skins any more, and I’m pretty sure the only underwater part of the entire living story was gathering krait obelisks (though I could be forgetting something!).

But underwater problems notwithstanding, yeah, p2 and p3 would be more fun if the bosses were at all interesting. Some of the most boring bosses in any dungeons in the game. (Actually it’s been too long since I did p3 and I forget the bosses there. But the p2 bosses are boring.)

Fear not, they’ll work on underwater combat and add new skills when the largos are released in the expansion! Moar zones moar dungeons moar skillz! He he he he. He.
Nevermind.

Which of those is the one you get nuked by jellyfish?

Yeah, screw that path. Not worth it in the least.

Path 2 and 3 can be great just people are really bad at underwater combat. Granted some classes are at a bigger disadvantage than others but that’s no excuse (cept poor engis they need a rework asap). I melee P3 underwater(only gotta dodge jellies) P2 you kinda forced to range(mines).

The other issue is the time it takes to kill stuff. Seriously, anet wtf, jormags minions shouldn’t have as much HP as a dragon champ. Funnily enough the most fun I had in hotw was when we pulled both the legendary icebrood’s together and killed at the same time XD.

Nikaido.3457:

There is no amount of reward that could make me do hotw p2 and p3 again. Not even 30 gold per run.

Stopped reading here, oh master of exaggeration; lord of overreaction.

3g would be just fine.

Cut all the bosses’ HP in half and nerf the elite jellyfish so they don’t hit harder than most champions, and it would dramatically improve hotw.

I agree with HP of bosses being to much.
I still like doing hotw tho, I try to do full run every day, but It’s really hard to get a group, let alone a nice group.

If anyone is doing p2 and p3 daily, feel free to whisper me in game :P

To be honest, I think this was always quite a dull dungeon even before the skipping, stacking, and furniture exploits. The ship looks great but the encounters, for whatever reason, are not much fun. Perhaps the bad camera movements are too annoying. The storylines are dull. The encounters are dull. The underwater sections are bad because underwater combat is just bad generally.

So yes this is a good candidate for a revamp. Remember though there are 25 dungeon paths there so some perfectly playable dungeon paths will always been seen as slower or less rewarding than others. Trying to get lots of players to frequently repeat all the paths is never going to work. HOTW is playable even if it is dull.

Can’t use FGS underwater boooooo.

fishball.7204:

Can’t use FGS underwater boooooo.

actually you can, butttttttttttttttttttt you won’t be able to pick it up >LOL<

There’s a very simple way of of killing the P3 final boss. Just requires some thinking outside the box.

Luring it up and FGSing?

noobgood.8762:

Luring it up and FGSing?

You don’t want to lure him on land. He will obliterate you if you do since his attacks changed and he’ll wipe your whole party

Sounds interesting. Gotta try that.

noobgood.8762:

Sounds interesting. Gotta try that.

I actually want to see a group beat him on land. He’s ridiculously OP. Everyone always brags about beating Lupi, but that’s cake. Let’s see a party beat the P3 final Boss outside of the water.

Figure I will piggy back off this topic, but I decided to be a masochist and go for a p2 solo. Got it but Wollam the final boss bugged making him afk auto attack kill. In short though, the path is miserable.

For p3 boss you can clear out the first room and lure him in there. It makes finding a safe place to revive much easier. It takes a long time but it’s still quicker than wiping and trying again (unless you wipe really early).

Rovus.5428:

Which of those is the one you get nuked by jellyfish?

Yeah, screw that path. Not worth it in the least.

Can’t tell if sarcasm or serious…

The fact that they explode makes them a free rally. The fight is just really long and boring – almost impossible to fail because of this.