Guild Wars 2

Hello there,

first a little word about my account and me.

My account is a little over one year old and NOT free2play. I play mainly fractals / dungeons / sPvP. (rarely dungeons since HoT) I have over 8300 AP. I have 56 Tyrian mastery points I can’t use. Got to Ruby in sPvP this Season (without HoT). And my personal Fractal Level is 91. And as you can see HERE my little Asuran necromancer is full ascended/sinister and has as much AR as I can/will afford.

What I wanted to express here: I know how to play.

My problems with this game:

I bought this account because it was advertised with: Pay once, play as long as you want. But after half a year I feel more and more blackmailed to upgrade to HoT.

Fractals:

I get less Loot, can’t get all AR Slots, can’t get +7AR Infusions, can’t get mistlock singularity or fractal tonics. Fractals didn’t have changed much with HoT. They have splitted them up from 4 to 1 and changed some numbers agonywise. But that was basically it. They didn’t even add a new one. So why do I have to pay, to still play this content, even if they advertised it with Pay once, play as long as you want.

PvP:

(I don’t wanna discuss this here, because there are already some threads about it)
In short: HoT specialization meta > nearly every vanilla post HoT build

Guild Halls:

I can spend my stuff to all of the nice guild hall upgrades, but I can use only a few of them.

The ‘great community’:

I get kicked out instantly

pre HoT: Rarely
post HoT: More often
post spring patch: yesterday alone FROM 4 %$#?ING GROUPS

(And no, I don’t even join groups which advertise ‘meta only’ or ‘ping gear’ even if I am as close to meta as I can get and my gear is maxed out) And it was after 11pm. So I’m guessing that would have been mostly adult players. One of them was a fractal#83 group which is one of the easier ones. I even stood in the Agony well to proof that I have enough AR. I have > 8kAP and they can see I got to ruby … still get kicked out.

Please AreaNet!

Let me at least have Fractal Masteries. I don’t wanna have the new maps, I’m not interrested in raiding, I don’t wanna play revenant, but please let me enjoy fractals as I enjoyed them pre HoT.

Actually this seems like a very fair request. Same chances are impossible due to elite specs, but at least make people able to play the same content, the AR is a serious issue.
Central tyria masteries available to non-hot players, at least for p2p players is not asked too much.

Its kinda sad that you are forced to buy HoT to stay relevant in any game mode, but money over satisfying your playerbase I guess :/

Expansion – get the stuff that comes with it
no expansion – no extra stuff

How is this hard to understand when all games that have expansions do this? What would be the purpose of having an expansion in an MMO if you did not have this?

Because fractals is part of the core game, and not of the expansion.

But the masteries are part of the expansion ……. one of the masteries just adds to the fractals experience. If you want the added parts you need the expansion.

The fractals experience? Grinding XP just so you can still play the same fractals ADDS something to the experience?

Well, you bought your acc to a time when there were offers about 10$/€ per account, so I think this is a fair price for the stuff you are still able to play. If you have paid more it’s your own thing because GW2 was on the market for over 2 years, it wasn’t a new game.
You feel excluded now? Look at the price for the expansion at the moment. It’s a gift due to the fact the expac has been released since 6 months.
Time goes on, deal with it. Same thing when buying a 2 year old car and not having the actual settings.
Referring to the kicking people. I feel sorry for you. Must be in NA, in EU almost no one gets kicked, the groups aren’t even recommending an ar check before. It can happen that you will be kicked if not having the required amount but that is fair tbh because you wanted to cheat your way through letting others carry your weight. Ok, there is another chance of getting kicked short before or during the fractal. Your chat language doesn’t fit with the atmosphere of the group. And again, like the ar thing, you are the one who would be the problem then.

PyrateSilly.4710:

Expansion – get the stuff that comes with it
no expansion – no extra stuff

How is this hard to understand when all games that have expansions do this? What would be the purpose of having an expansion in an MMO if you did not have this?

You would be right, but Anet did some jerk move with HoT. And to follow your deal, Anet removed some of the core game and put it behind HoT, How is this hard to understand?

- The vast majority of the guild stuff that was available pre-hot isn’t anymore. Banners, Buff, guild bank, etc. All of that could be unlocked and use pre-hot and you can’t access it now if you don’t have HoT.

- We used to have good ascended drop in fractal 50, 40 and 30. Now you need to reach higher level of fractal to get the good reward. Now even counting that the pre-hot level 50 is more similar to level 80-90 post-hot in term of difficulty. Without HoT you can only reach level 76 unless you pay a lot of gold to get some +12 or higher. With mean that you get less reward and can access less challenging content now that you could pre-hot.

- Elite spec are straight up boost for most if not all profession, especially in PvP. Pre-hot you could find a way to play one of the best build. Post-HoT you systematically can’t if you don’t have HoT. There is a difference between adding elite spec as different playstyle for all profession, with some of them being better than normal, some being equal and some being less good than core profession, but there is a problem when all of them are just simply better in all modes.

Not having access to new content when you don’t buy an expansion is normal. Losing content and having limited access to the old content because you didn’t buy an expansion is not normal.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, you bought your acc to a time when there were offers about 10$/€ per account, so I think this is a fair price for the stuff you are still able to play. If you have paid more it’s your own thing because GW2 was on the market for over 2 years, it wasn’t a new game.
You feel excluded now? Look at the price for the expansion at the moment. It’s a gift due to the fact the expac has been released since 6 months.
Time goes on, deal with it. Same thing when buying a 2 year old car and not having the actual settings.
Referring to the kicking people. I feel sorry for you. Must be in NA, in EU almost no one gets kicked, the groups aren’t even recommending a ar check before. It can happen that you will be kicked if not having the required amount but that is fair tbh because you wanted to cheat your way through letting others carry your weight. Ok, there is another chance of getting kicked short before or during the fractal. Your chat language doesn’t fit with the atmosphere of the group. And again, like the ar thing, you are the one who would be the problem then.

I’m playing on EU … and get kicked a lot.

Not because of my language. Because often I get kicked before I can even say hi.

If I would miss out on AR I would not complain if they’d kick me. But as I already wrote in my first post. I even stood in the AR-well to show them, that I have enough.

No one has to carry me. It’s often the other way round. But I would never kick somebody, because he doesn’t perform as good as others.

I get kicked because I don’t have Viper’s Stats (which I can’t get because of HoT) or because I’m not playing Reaper (which I can’t because of HoT)

And I cant play the last 10 level. Because I’m missing out on AR (which I can’t because of HoT)

At first, I disagree to Thaddeus about the reward part in his comment, the rest is fine for me. Fractals till level 76 give enough rewards at the moment. The asc droprate there is fine because we had many drops the last days in tier 3 which was not the case when we were doing 56-67-77 and getting the champion chest afterwards the last six months. I’ve never seen such an asc box party before like I saw with tier 1-3.
Yeah, the change from pre-HoT 30, 40 and 50 to HoT was made and became worse but it was for everyone, HoT owners included. Later on they patched it in december so the droprate for an asc box after swamp of the mists was almost the same like before HoT. And as I stated above, swamps of the mist was playable for non-HoT-owners —> 56-60-67.

To respond to emma, I would never ever show in the first place that I have enough AR. If people are asking I’ll do it but running immediatley to the well after loading screen would be suspicious to me like somebody has to hide something behind his proper AR status. It’s like: “Look, I have nothing to hide. My AR is fine. (But I better don’t mention I have almost no clue what I’ve been doing in the upcoming level.) Take me with you.”
No offense and you already said that you are not the one wiping. But then I ask myself why you are getting kicked. The only kicks in fractals I had to experience were kicks immediately after joining to a 4 man group which is a sign for them having a 5th member themselves but weren’t fast enough to cancel the lfg or communicate it in their group.
I highly doubt that you are getting kicked because you don’t have the elite spec. It’s more due to the thing I wrote or they just don’t want to have (another) necro. Only once I remembered that one player asked a mesmer to change to chrono. He didn’t, we wiped, the one who asked left the group and we went on successfully.
When pugging higher fractals (50+) it rly doesn’t matter if you have the elite spec or not. The content is still faceroll and when pug-players begin to struggle it has nothing to do with the lack of a missing elite spec. The overall personal skill is way more essential than the spec and running chickens will be running chickens no matter what specialisation. If they go down, they will go down with both, if they defeat a fractal boss they will defeat it with both.
If you persist that you are getting kicked not having viper gear, you were joining groups asking you to ping your gear. Don’t do that, leave those group asap or better, if a gear check is written in the lfg, don’t even join these ones! They are not faster, they are not better and the atmosphere is way worse than a usual group with only numbers like “69”. I promise you the kick rate will decrease instantly.

tl;dr With the exception of PvP (elite specs being too strong relative to core), I disagree that HoT “blackmails” folks into buying. It offers reasonable incentives for upgrading.

(That said, I wouldn’t object if ANet offered fractal masteries to non-HoT owners — I just don’t think it’s necessary.)

emma.5967:

Fractals:

I get less Loot, can’t get all AR Slots, can’t get +7AR Infusions, can’t get mistlock singularity or fractal tonics.

That’s incorrect. You get less loot than you would with HoT, but it’s about the same as if there hadn’t been an expansion (source: my alt account, that sometimes leeches a fifth spot). Similarly, yeah, you can’t do higher-level fractals without the extra agony being affordable, however you can do about the same number of levels as you used to.

In other words, the expansion unlocks new levels, new rewards; you aren’t getting less than before.

emma.5967:

PvP:

(I don’t wanna discuss this here, because there are already some threads about it)
In short: HoT specialization meta > nearly every vanilla post HoT build

Actually, you could have simply mentioned that elite specs give a huge advantage in a competitive game mode and, arguably, that’s unfair. (I would agree.) Here, I think there is pressure to upgrade, which seems contrary to ANet’s original philosophy that elite specs would be comparable to core specs, not relatively OP’d.

emma.5967:

Guild Halls:

I can spend my stuff to all of the nice guild hall upgrades, but I can use only a few of them.

GH are part of the expansion. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with gating them to owners of HoT. On the other hand, I do think ANet ought to allow any member to have access to the bartend buffs. (Non-HoT owners can use the GMO nodes, the vendors — source is again my alt account.)

emma.5967:

The ‘great community’:

I get kicked out instantly

pre HoT: Rarely
post HoT: More often
post spring patch: yesterday alone FROM 4 %$#?ING GROUPS

(And no, I don’t even join groups which advertise ‘meta only’ or ‘ping gear’ even if I am as close to meta as I can get and my gear is maxed out) And it was after 11pm. So I’m guessing that would have been mostly adult players. One of them was a fractal#83 group which is one of the easier ones. I even stood in the Agony well to proof that I have enough AR. I have > 8kAP and they can see I got to ruby … still get kicked out.

Foolish people have always been part of the community. This stuff happens to HoT-owners too. I don’t think this is something special about being non-HoT. (Although: refer back to my comments about PvP — given that elite specs are better powered than core specs, why would a PUG take a chance on someone who didn’t have them? All things being equal, they could have an equally-skilled player with the elite.)

emma.5967:

Please AreaNet!

Let me at least have Fractal Masteries. I don’t wanna have the new maps, I’m not interrested in raiding, I don’t wanna play revenant, but please let me enjoy fractals as I enjoyed them pre HoT.

You can still. As noted above, you have access to the equivalent rewards and levels that you had before HoT.

Thaddeus.4891:

You would be right, but Anet did some jerk move with HoT. And to follow your deal, Anet removed some of the core game and put it behind HoT, How is this hard to understand?

This is just really low. But, it’s the kind of company they want to be.

Stat sets and Core Masters should be made available to ALL players, regardless of HoT status.

Elite Specs (which definitely need heavy nerfs still to bring them in line with the base classes), the expansion maps, etc. should obviously be for HoT players.

People begged for an expansion rather than free updates. They got what they asked for.

The expansion model comes with certain expectations, chief among them is that to experience new content and systems you’re expected to buy the expansion.

Personally, I think the free update model was better, but I was outvoted.

There’s no incentive for Anet to cater to someone that isn’t interested in playing under their new monetization model, because they moved to this model due to a majority player desire.

As an MMO developer, they’re less interested in catering to individual players, and far more interested in catering to the majority of their player base. Sad fact is that the majority of their player base indicated they’d happily buy expansions. The limitations in non-HoT accounts exist because they’re designed to sell the game to free players. Be choosing not to conform to the majority opinion of existing players and pick up the expansion, in arenanet’s eyes, you have the same service priority as a free player, as you are no longer actively contributing financially to development.

It sucks, but that’s business.

PopeUrban.2578:

There’s no incentive for Anet to cater to someone that isn’t interested in playing under their new monetization model, because they moved to this model due to a majority player desire.

All the content promised in the expansion was supposed to also come with the B2P/gemstore model. The expansion was just a money grab.

Vinceman.4572:

If you persist that you are getting kicked not having viper gear, you were joining groups asking you to ping your gear. Don’t do that, leave those group asap or better, if a gear check is written in the lfg, don’t even join these ones! They are not faster, they are not better and the atmosphere is way worse than a usual group with only numbers like “69”. I promise you the kick rate will decrease instantly.

As I wrote in my Original Post:

(And no, I don’t even join groups which advertise ‘meta only’ or ‘ping gear’ even if I am as close to meta as I can get and my gear is maxed out)

I avoid these groups like the plague!

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

emma.5967:

Fractals:

I get less Loot, can’t get all AR Slots, can’t get +7AR Infusions, can’t get mistlock singularity or fractal tonics.

That’s incorrect. You get less loot than you would with HoT, but it’s about the same as if there hadn’t been an expansion (source: my alt account, that sometimes leeches a fifth spot). Similarly, yeah, you can’t do higher-level fractals without the extra agony being affordable, however you can do about the same number of levels as you used to.

That’s incorrect. They just streched the difficulties from 50 to 100. I could play the challenging fractals prior to the update (lvl 50) and I’m excluded from the challenging ones now. (90+) Actual lvl 50 is facerolling content and similar to 30s fractals prior to the update. If you tell me that playing an actual level 50 fractal is challenging or fun, you will never understand my point.

I don’t know what you are doing then, even yesterday I pugged 18 or 19 fractals. The only kicks we had to execute were people not leaving the group after finishing the fractal when they were back to other maps in Tyria. In the majority of the runs the atmosphere was near to perfect with laughing, constructive criticism and all runs were successful. Nobody cared about classes, only one hardliner was asking to swap an ele to war/rev/guard after two wipes at the boss but I told him it’s ok and we went on killing it the next try. On Mai Trin, 2 of the pugs died instantly a.k.a. no AR but we went on, rezzed them and defeated her while another player dc’ed at 50% and was dead at the entrance of the fractal.

But I think all this won’t solve your problem because your mind is set. The only thing we can tell is that they won’t change the system like it is now because the modifications were made to let people buy the expac. You can complain, rant or laugh about it nothing will happen.
My personal thought in this case: If there is content I’ll want to play so badly, I invest money. The expac is about 30€/$ these days which is justified for the content by now (+ after the recent patch). I can also understand people not willing to get it but hey, that’s their deal. And I also don’t want a discussion about 30€/$ being expensive or kids/students having no money and so forth. Work for it, save for it or wait for birthday/christmas.

Vinceman.4572:

But I think all this won’t solve your problem because your mind is set.

How is my mind set? I’m complaining about the experience I made. How is your mind not set? You say, you’re not facing those problems … maybe because you’re having the expac?

The only thing we can tell is that they won’t change the system like it is now because the modifications were made to let people buy the expac. You can complain, rant or laugh about it nothing will happen.

Exactly. SAB came back because people were complaining. 90% of the Spring update is stuff people were complaining about. WvW Borderlands will be Alpine soon … because people complained about it. But maybe I have more faith in Areanet than you.
(Funfact: Read the Spring-update with the fact in mind that your not having HoT. Spoiler: Suddenly it’s a reeeeaaaally small update.)

Vinceman.4572:

My personal thought in this case: If there is content I’ll want to play so badly, I invest money. The expac is about 30€/$ these days which is justified for the content by now (+ after the recent patch). I can also understand people not willing to get it but hey, that’s their deal. And I also don’t want a discussion about 30€/$ being expensive or kids/students having no money and so forth. Work for it, save for it or wait for birthday/christmas.

• Funny is, that you’re arguing all against it, but also say you won’t discuss it.

• Your mentioned 30€ twice. I’m seeing it at 45€ in the official shop. 40€ at amazon and 40€ at my local store.

• If 30/40/45€ is not much money for you. You should be happy. I’m happy for you, that you’re in this position.
  But not everybody is. I’m working and I’m a parent. After paying mortgage and bills most of the money left goes to the kids.
  And if I’d choose to spend some money on me alone, there are a lot of things higher on my wishlist (5 year old PC / small monitor) than on an overpriced xpac, that took stuff away from me.

Vinceman.4572:

Work for it, save for it or wait for birthday/christmas.

As a parent: birthday/christmas COSTS me money. Parents are Santa Claus

Sorry, first I have to answer is: Playing an online game is luxury, nothing else. So, you either invest or not. If you aren’t able to, then you aren’t able to, period.

emma.5967:

How is my mind set? I’m complaining about the experience I made. How is your mind not set? You say, you’re not facing those problems … maybe because you’re having the expac?

Exactly, I wanted to go on in this game so it was obvious for me to buy it. I ranted a bit after some weeks because it wasn’t enough for me in the first place. After the recent patch it has my mind has changed and is set: The investment was worth it. Pretending to be absolutely rational about this decision, I was and still paying cents for every hour play time.

Exactly. SAB came back because people were complaining. 90% of the Spring update is stuff people were complaining about. WvW Borderlands will be Alpine soon … because people complained about it. But maybe I have more faith in Areanet than you.
(Funfact: Read the Spring-update with the fact in mind that your not having HoT. Spoiler: Suddenly it’s a reeeeaaaally small update.)

Yeah, you are one out of …. how much? 1000? 10000? SAB and WvW are big themes for the community or at least a huge part of it, yours is not, that’s the difference you can’t deny it.

emma.5967:

• Funny is, that you’re arguing all against it, but also say you won’t discuss it.

No, that’s not the case. My personal feeling about having luxury is following point: If I want something to have so badly although it’s luxury, I go for it, like working harder, save money from other things a.k.a. less sweets, less car driving or whatever you take into account. Personally I don’t have addictions like smoking or anything else but you can save 30€ everywhere without limiting yourself too hard.

emma.5967:

• Your mentioned 30€ twice. I’m seeing it at 45€ in the official shop. 40€ at amazon and 40€ at my local store.

Google is your friend. You can buy the expac for the amount of 30€ from several serious sources. Why you have to take them from the most expensive ones like the official store, amazon and your local store? This is really no argument at all!

emma.5967:

• If 30/40/45€ is not much money for you. You should be happy. I’m happy for you, that you’re in this position.
  But not everybody is. I’m working and I’m a parent. After paying mortgage and bills most of the money left goes to the kids.
  And if I’d choose to spend some money on me alone, there are a lot of things higher on my wishlist (5 year old PC / small monitor) than on an overpriced xpac, that took stuff away from me.

Well, seems you have set your priorities. You have to pay mortgage, bills plus you planned to have a family life. Good for you, we will have soon so I am in a different position at the moment, ok but you cannot be serious about your claims then. This is ridiculous. Either you can afford buying it or not. Like I said, playing a video game is luxury.

emma.5967:

As a parent: birthday/christmas COSTS me money. Parents are Santa Claus

Oh really? Didn’t know that, I thought Santa was real! oO /irony

Sorry, you can’t tell me that there weren’t 45€ for yourself on christmas or you must have a really hard life but then I don’t recommend spending wasting more time in a game like this. And don’t repeat the phrase of wanting other things like a new pc. Change your priorities then and buy the pc one or two weeks later.

Vinceman.4572:

Yeah, you are one out of …. how much? 1000? 10000? SAB and WvW are big themes for the community or at least a huge part of it, yours is not, that’s the difference you can’t deny it.

Oh, I didn’t knew that you’re the one who decides which complaints are important and which are not. But that would explain a lot.

Vinceman.4572:

Google is your friend. You can buy the expac for the amount of 30€ from several serious sources. Why you have to take them from the most expensive ones like the official store, amazon and your local store? This is really no argument at all!

Some people lost their accounts / money because they trusted some shady Internet offers:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Buying-HoT-through-a-3rd-Party-Careful/first#post5175830
https://www.guildwars2.com/retailers/
All GW2 official retailers I get recommended are 40€ and up.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry, first I have to answer is: Playing an online game is luxury, nothing else. So, you either invest or not. If you aren’t able to, then you aren’t able to, period.
…
Sorry, you can’t tell me that there weren’t 45€ for yourself on christmas or ….

Ok. getting to personal for me here. I don’t have to justify to you how I am spending my money. I don’t think you’ll ever understand that 45€ is a lot of money for some people, as long as you’re not in that position yourself. Yes it is luxury.

But when I bought the game they stated: You pay once and there will be no additional costs. That was THE unique selling point, they marketed with, to be other than all those other MMO’s. And that was the main reason why I bought the game! Because I can’t afford those other expensive MMO’s.

emma.5967:

Oh, I didn’t knew that you’re the one who decides which complaints are important and which are not. But that would explain a lot.

Come on, all I am asking is to be realistic. Sure, everyone has dreams but look around in this forum. Almost nobody complains here about not having HoT. You belong to a minority which is not the case if you look at the issue with SAB and WvW. Be realistic!

emma.5967:

Some people lost their accounts / money because they trusted some shady Internet offers:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Buying-HoT-through-a-3rd-Party-Careful/first#post5175830
https://www.guildwars2.com/retailers/
All GW2 official retailers I get recommended are 40€ and up.

Yeah, you should not choose the first or darkest seller coming along. Inform yourself, like I already stated, Google can help you. It’s not that hard.

emma.5967:

Ok. getting to personal for me here. I don’t have to justify to you how I am spending my money. I don’t think you’ll ever understand that 45€ is a lot of money for some people, as long as you’re not in that position yourself. Yes it is luxury.

Of course, 45€ can be a lot of money, no doubt. But still, the end of the argument is that you either buy yourself extravagant things or not.

emma.5967:

But when I bought the game they stated: You pay once and there will be no additional costs. That was THE unique selling point, they marketed with, to be other than all those other MMO’s. And that was the main reason why I bought the game! Because I can’t afford those other expensive MMO’s.

Let’s suppose you started at release (or even in beta), so you had over 3 (!) years game experience in an online game for a price of around 50€ and not a single cent more. Please calculate the the price per hour and when you’re done compare it to other video games and any other time consuming hobby. Playing cards will be cheaper but even if you do sports, the shoes, the clothes are in addition way more expensive than playing Guild Wars 2.
Now they change and add something in the game, you are only excluded from 25 levels in fractals unless you buy higher infusions which is possible after a certain time and you feel neglected? I don’t take the PvP argument seriously because we have several posters at least in the german forum that are playing without expac and have no issues. Yeah, if you want to compete in the esports scene you have to upgrade, but that has always been a thing in competitions whatever they are.

tl;dr: It’s a bit awkward to complain if you look right into the reality of things.

Vinceman.4572:

Yeah, you should not choose the first or darkest seller coming along. Inform yourself, like I already stated, Google can help you. It’s not that hard.

Yes I informed myself, that’s why I posted those links. One with the OFFICIAL retailers. I’m not making this up.

Vinceman.4572:

Let’s suppose you started at release (or even in beta), so you had over 3 (!) years game experience in an online game for a price of around 50€ and not a single cent more.
Please calculate the the price per hour and when you’re done compare it to other video games and any other time consuming hobby.

It’s not even one and a half year and somewhat around 500hours … so someone with 5000hours should have paid 10x the price? Because we’re not kittening commies, are we?

Vinceman.4572:

Playing cards will be cheaper but even if you do sports, the shoes, the clothes are in addition way more expensive than playing Guild Wars 2.

And for sports you’re considering the cost of shoes and clothes – but for an online game you’re taking hardware, internet and electricity out of the equation? Maybe that’s why we’re on different opinions on money and prices.

Oh, now I get it … you’re just playing with the box! Now it does make sense. And than there is barely any differnce to the xpac.

Vinceman.4572:

Now they change and add something in the game, you are only excluded from 25 levels in fractals unless you buy higher infusions which is possible after a certain time and you feel neglected?

I’m playing fractals most of my time. Pre and post HoT. So if I’m getting excluded from ‘only’ the last 25 levels (those with the challenge and the loot) … yes, if feel neglected. If it were the lower 25 levels i would not complain.

And with higher infusions you’re talking about these?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/20_Agony_Infusion

I would have 130 AR with three of them. … If you’d send me three of those I will stop complaining on this game … FOREVER! … AND BUY THE XPAC!

Vinceman.4572:

I don’t take the PvP argument seriously because we have several posters at least in the german forum that are playing without expac and have no issues. Yeah, if you want to compete in the esports scene you have to upgrade, but that has always been a thing in competitions whatever they are.

If you can’t see a difference in the PvP builds due to specializations, i can’t take your arguments seriously anymore.

This is getting awkward when the most simple solution would be someone buy her the expansion.

ANet employees have to pay bills, taxes, mortgage, insurance and tend to their children, too.

emma.5967:

Yes I informed myself, that’s why I posted those links. One with the OFFICIAL retailers. I’m not making this up.

Your choice, not mine. Some people call it conservative, some others irrational. Dunno, but personally I can’t see anything wrong with serious sources that selling for a little less than the big players that are draining the wallet of their sticky consumers. That should have been your point in this discussion btw. “The evil ones”.

emma.5967:

It’s not even one and a half year and somewhat around 500hours … so someone with 5000hours should have paid 10x the price? Because we’re not kittening commies, are we?

Funny question aside: Is this why you also don’t vote for Bernie Sanders in US presedential elections? Ah forgot, you are european. ^^
You bought a game that was one and a half year old and to that point of time you haven’t even paid the full price unless you were not so smart to buy an overpriced version. Anet themselves made good offers and since the date of 22nd of august 2013 you have gotten the game for 39,99€ or less and this one was the expensive heroic version. There were also many offers of 10€ for an normal account.
Ah I see, you are lacking the 1.5 years…well the argumentation is the same buying an 1.5 year old car.

emma.5967:

And for sports you’re considering the cost of shoes and clothes – but for an online game you’re taking hardware, internet and electricity out of the equation? Maybe that’s why we’re on different opinions on money and prices.

I haven’t bought my pc for gaming only, it’s also a working place and of course for other purposes. But try to make sports without proper shoes, proper clothes and if it’s not running or anything else, you have to pay way more to adequately do it. For GW2 you just take your game and play it. The pc was there before because the game is the luxury, not the pc.

emma.5967:

Oh, now I get it … you’re just playing with the box! Now it does make sense. And than there is barely any differnce due to the xpac.

I don’t understand this one but ok, I will go on.

emma.5967:

I’m playing fractals most of my time. Pre and post HoT. So if I’m getting excluded from ‘only’ the last 25 levels (those with the challenge and the loot) … yes, if feel neglected. If it we’re the lower 25 levels i would not complain.

Then buy the expac.

emma.5967:

And with higher infusions you’re talking about these?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/20_Agony_Infusion

I would have 130 AR with three of them. … If you’d send me three of those I will stop complaining on this game … FOREVER!

Go grind or buy the expac then. You WANT to have it, so do something for it. They changed it, omg. They didn’t ask you, well, they could but they didn’t. Get over it and behave like an adult. You have children, be an example and stop complaining. It’s getting more and more ridiculous, like a little kid that doesn’t get the sweets.

emma.5967:

If you can’t see a difference in the PvP builds due to specializations, i can’t take your arguments seriously anymore.

Well, you must have been in the top tier of PvP players then.

Absurdistan at it’s best!

Iris Ng.9845:

This is getting awkward when the most simple solution would be someone buy her the expansion.

ANet employees have to pay bills, taxes, mortgage, insurance and tend to their children, too.

Oh, that’d be sweet. <3 … But I don’t want the XPAC … just play fractals as before.

Vinceman.4572:

Ah I see, you are lacking the 1.5 years…well the argumentation is the same buying an 1.5 year old car.

Never complained about the missing 1.5 years, not sure why you’re bringing this up?

Vinceman.4572:

You WANT to have it, so do something for it.

I’m doing something. … I’m complaining here.

Vinceman.4572:

You have children, be an example and stop complaining. It’s getting more and more ridiculous, like a little kid that doesn’t get the sweets.

Oh, this forum is not for complaining. Just for happy talk? … How’s weather in Germany?

I’m feeling a bit insulted by the last part. So I will stop answering to your upcoming posts if you don’t mind.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, you must have been in the top tier of PvP players then.

Exactly. Because only the top tier players can tell a difference between pre and post HoT builds.

emma.5967:

My problems with this game:

I bought this account because it was advertised with: Pay once, play as long as you want. But after half a year I feel more and more blackmailed to upgrade to HoT.

Sorry, but I can’t really sympathize for you. You got a year and a half of top tier MMO. If you were playing WoW, you’d have paid around $270 for the subscription alone on top the cost to buy the game and all its expansions.

There are lots of MMOs that you can of course play for much longer without paying for anything, but not with the dev support and level of investment that GW2 has.

At the end of the day, it cost real money to keep an MMO running and updated with content and there’s only so many freeloaders that you can support with people who will buy stuff from the cash shop.

If you honestly feel that your year and a half of GW2 wasn’t worth the $60 you paid for the game…well…good luck finding something else.

PyrateSilly.4710:

Expansion – get the stuff that comes with it
no expansion – no extra stuff

How is this hard to understand when all games that have expansions do this? What would be the purpose of having an expansion in an MMO if you did not have this?

That’s not extra stuff. That’s stuff that was removed from core first and only then put behind HoT purchase.

Frankly, OP’s request seems really reasonable to me.

Dahkeus.8243:

If you honestly feel that your year and a half of GW2 wasn’t worth the $60 you paid for the game…well…good luck finding something else.

It was worth every penny I paid. But I don’t wanna pay 40€ + for an expansion I don’t wanna have, to play stuff I already paid for.

You can still play ‘The Fissure of Woe’ or ‘The Underworld’ today without artificial restrictions when you only have bought Prophecies.

emma.5967:

Dahkeus.8243:

If you honestly feel that your year and a half of GW2 wasn’t worth the $60 you paid for the game…well…good luck finding something else.

It was worth every penny I paid. But I don’t wanna pay 40€ + for an expansion I don’t wanna have, to play stuff I already paid for.

Cool. That’s your prerogative, but there’s pretty much 0 incentive for ANet to care about your wishes when you’re not paying to keep the lights on. Beggars and choosers and all that.

In the end its like this:
Everything you purchased as part of the core game should be available to you.
Everything part of HoT should not.
Now the problem is that fractals are part of the core game, but the requirements to play fractals are not.
That is an kitten move by Anet, and maybe they didnt quite think this through, but in the end of the day you cant say you are directly excluded from content you paid for.
I dont like to say it, but it isnt actually unfair, and theoretically there is plenty of content to play.
However I think it would be the only decent move to at least make the fractal vendor available for players without the mastery.
Unless they do so its effectively impossible to play content you paid for.
And actually I dont see it hurting their sales either.

Asrat.2645:

However I think it would be the only decent move to at least make the fractal vendor available for players without the mastery.

That would fix the problem quite well.

OP, you bought the game for over a years and probably had hundreds if not thousands of game time in GW2. That money was well spent imo, also you can still play the same game contents as it was before HoT release. So “Pay once, play as long as you want.” is still applied to the core GW2 account till today.

That being said, HoT is so much fun after the latest update. Why do you not purchase the expansion and give it a try since you still enjoy playing the core game (I would quit already if i don’t.) I’m sure you will have a lot of fun for a year or two from now. If you like to do fractals, there will be new fractals this year in HoT. Living story 3 is also coming out next big update.

If you don’t like to purchase HoT, it is your decision, nothing is wrong with that. If anet doesn’t want to add fractal mastery to core account, it is their decision, nothing is wrong with that as well. If random players don’t want to play with you, it is their right to kick you out from their group, it is not nice but also nothing is wrong with that

Tuthan.3250:

OP, you bought the game for over a years and probably had hundreds if not thousands of game time in GW2. That money was well spent imo, also you can still play the same game contents as it was before HoT release.

Read the thread first before posting. OP is complaining, because this is actually not the case

Fractal mastery did not add new rewards to HoT accounts. It was used to lock out the normal reward level, while core accounts had their rewards reduced. Significantly.

Also, contrary to what you might think, the change did not add additional 50 levels on top of old ones. Rather, it had split the previous 50 levels into 100 (current level 100 is not really more difficult than original level 50. In many ways, the difficulty is actually lower). AR however locks out large part of those levels from any player that doesn’t have access to the second island vendor.

The problem is not that there’s new content that requires HoT to play. It is that parts of old, core content were put behind HoT gate.

I do own HoT, but my friend doesn’t. He owns the CORE game, just not HoT. Can he still get the masteries? If not, how is he suppose to attune his rings for more AR!?

Tomiyou.3790:

Can he still get the masteries?

No he can’t

If not, how is he suppose to attune his rings for more AR!?

He can’t attune them.

Here is an actual discussion about this very problem:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Non-HoT-Accounts

No. Masteries are for those that own HoT.

I didn’t think this was a problem until my friend who has a core account started playing the game again. The current system with +7 infusions and attuning is stupidly unfair for non-HoT players.
The +2 extra AR on versatile infusions is huge, and 2 extra AR slots with attuned rings is much better too.

I don’t say the non-HoT accounts need to get the same stuff others paid for, but simple crafting of those Agonized Essences would be a good solution and for the +7 as well.

Thaddeus.4891:

PyrateSilly.4710:

Expansion – get the stuff that comes with it
no expansion – no extra stuff

How is this hard to understand when all games that have expansions do this? What would be the purpose of having an expansion in an MMO if you did not have this?

You would be right, but Anet did some jerk move with HoT. And to follow your deal, Anet removed some of the core game and put it behind HoT, How is this hard to understand?

- The vast majority of the guild stuff that was available pre-hot isn’t anymore. Banners, Buff, guild bank, etc. All of that could be unlocked and use pre-hot and you can’t access it now if you don’t have HoT.

- We used to have good ascended drop in fractal 50, 40 and 30. Now you need to reach higher level of fractal to get the good reward. Now even counting that the pre-hot level 50 is more similar to level 80-90 post-hot in term of difficulty. Without HoT you can only reach level 76 unless you pay a lot of gold to get some +12 or higher. With mean that you get less reward and can access less challenging content now that you could pre-hot.

- Elite spec are straight up boost for most if not all profession, especially in PvP. Pre-hot you could find a way to play one of the best build. Post-HoT you systematically can’t if you don’t have HoT. There is a difference between adding elite spec as different playstyle for all profession, with some of them being better than normal, some being equal and some being less good than core profession, but there is a problem when all of them are just simply better in all modes.

Not having access to new content when you don’t buy an expansion is normal. Losing content and having limited access to the old content because you didn’t buy an expansion is not normal.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I have never seen a major MMO remove content/features from an existing game and place it behind a new expansion paywall until it was done here.

With every expansion I have seen in other games new items and content/rewards were added. I have never seen a company Nerf rewards for base content and at the same time add new rewards added to that same old content gated by a pay wall.. till it was done here.

Tomiyou.3790:

I didn’t think this was a problem until my friend who has a core account started playing the game again. The current system with +7 infusions and attuning is stupidly unfair for non-HoT players.
The +2 extra AR on versatile infusions is huge, and 2 extra AR slots with attuned rings is much better too.

I don’t say the non-HoT accounts need to get the same stuff others paid for, but simple crafting of those Agonized Essences would be a good solution and for the +7 as well.

Pre-hot you could only get to level 50. Your friend can reach even higher than level 50 without HoT. I don’t see a problem there. Same with the reward. Without any attuned ring and +7 AR you can still reach 103 AR normally, which mean that you can always complete the tier 3 fractal, which give you the same ascended drop rate than the old pre-hot 50. I’m not sure what is the global reward without the fractal mastery, but i’m like 99% sure it’s higher than pre-hot.

And since you he can do up to tier 3, the difficulty level is similar to the pre-hot level 50.

There is a lot of stuff wrong with HoT, but this isn’t one of them. Especially now since they fixed a lot of the issues with Fractal.

Agree with above however you need to remember that chests for daily fractals have increased rewards only when you have fractal masteries (I don’t know which part of reward do they affect).

TheLilith.2849:

Agree with above however you need to remember that chests for daily fractals have increased rewards only when you have fractal masteries (I don’t know which part of reward do they affect).

‘’You now receive bonus rewards from fractal dungeon boss chests’‘. That’s the official tooltips for the mastery. From what I heard, it only give you +1 Agony Resistance. I heard rumour that maybe it improve your drop rate in Fractal Encryption, but I’m not sure.

The 2nd mastery give you additional daily, but from what I remember it gave you like a 2nd recommended, which is only good if you are going after the legendary back item (which I don’t think you can do wihtout HoT) and a level 21-49 or Tier 2 daily. That could decrease a bit the ascended drop chance true, but not my by much. The tier 3 give you a lot more chance at ascended than tier 2 anyway.

As you can read here Tomiyou there is no actual problem.

Your friend can still play level 50 fractals as before. (ok, they are faceroll-content instead of challenging as before) It may feel like level 30 but it is still level 50, tho.

He can’t come with you when you’d like to play T4 levels. But hey, you can find new friends on the lfg to play with, and so can he!

Or he can buy the expansion and play the all-new-Heart-of-Thorns-fractals where you can get FIFTY NEW FRACTALS! They may look the same as before, but let me tell you, they are not!

starting to sound bitter and cynical … I’d better stay away from the forums for a while.

He can technically play up to scale 90 with you, even if he lacks the AR. Just means he’s gotta get his dodges down or he gets destroyed by AR. 91+ however… well, social awkwardness is going to do what it is supposed to.

I really do sympathize with you, Anet have just changed fractals with HoT to make the old 40-50 fractals the new 76-100 fractals and just put in more agony requirements to exclude non-HoT players from the very highest levels. It’s clearly a move to entice players to buy the expansion but in this case I feel it’s just a bit distasteful. I guess the only consolation I can give you is that the difficulty is pretty much the same throughout the tier 4 fractals (extremely nominally harder) so you can still do essentially the hardest fractal content with the +5’s rather than the +7’s.

Astralporing.1957:

Tuthan.3250:

OP, you bought the game for over a years and probably had hundreds if not thousands of game time in GW2. That money was well spent imo, also you can still play the same game contents as it was before HoT release.

Read the thread first before posting. OP is complaining, because this is actually not the case

Fractal mastery did not add new rewards to HoT accounts. It was used to lock out the normal reward level, while core accounts had their rewards reduced. Significantly.

Also, contrary to what you might think, the change did not add additional 50 levels on top of old ones. Rather, it had split the previous 50 levels into 100 (current level 100 is not really more difficult than original level 50. In many ways, the difficulty is actually lower). AR however locks out large part of those levels from any player that doesn’t have access to the second island vendor.

The problem is not that there’s new content that requires HoT to play. It is that parts of old, core content were put behind HoT gate.

It only effictively locks you out of scales 91-100.
As for the other parts yeah, it’s kind of a bad move that they ended up doing it like this.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

It only effictively locks you out of scales 91-100.

It starts being a problem once you pass into required AR level above 100 (at above fractal level 70). Remember, that you’d be short on not only 28 points from using 5 ar infusions instead of 7 ar ones, but will also lack the two attuned slots.
And since after the last change doing only t3 dailies results in a significant nerf to the rewards, it seriously compounds he other problem mentioned.

Yes, you can compensate by crafting/buying better infusions, but even for fractal level 90 you’d need +20 ones. To reach 150 ar you’d need a 27, 27, 26 setup.
I don’t think i need to explain why this isn’t a practical option.