Guild Wars 2

Once you hit level 80, there are a few ways you can go about obtaining your exotic set. Dungeons, crafting, and karma.

The problem with doing dungeons for exotics is once you do one dungeon, say CoF, you now have 30ish marks for THAT exotic set. There is no longer any reason to do any other dungeon, because you need to run CoF about 60 times to complete your CoF exotic set. Any other dungeon you run at that point serves no purpose, as you are now obtaining marks for an entirely different set. So unless you want to have a weird mix of different sets, you will only focus on one dungeon. Grind fest much? No one likes this. It needs to be reworked. And once you obtain this set, how much incentive is there to go to other dungeons? To go get a set with identical stats but different looks? Can’t say I see the majority of players dishing out hours and hours and hours and hours for some aesthetic changes to their toons.

If you want people to run more than one dungeon, then perhaps you could have only one or two types of marks, and have those work for all the different sets. That way, I don’t feel forced to run CoF 15 times a day, and instead I can bounce around to different dungeons and experience all of them.

The next reason that dungeons don’t need to be completed is that their difficulties do not remotely match their rewards. Nothing says success like wiping 30 times to a boss only to receive a blue Focus! I’ve literally never received an upgrade from a dungeon outside of the marks for my exotic set. Neither I nor many of the dozens I play with find dungeons all that enjoyable in the first place. It is literally a chore for most. Do you think people are grinding CoF because they just love it so much? People are avoiding your dungeons. They don’t like them. This is a red flag staring you in the face.
I have no problem with difficulty, I’ve always welcomed difficulty in dungeons. However, there is a difference between difficulty and fighting a group of mobs with a billion life for 5 minutes. That’s just boring.

With a little farming for mats, you can craft your entire exotic set without any of that hassle. You don’t ever need to enter a dungeon for your best gear. It isn’t necessary.

So, unless you actually believe people enjoy running the same dungeons hundreds of times, infested with bugs and complete randomness, just for the hell of it, you need to rework your system entirely.

I love every aspect of this game except the dungeons. Just a little work with the dungeons and all shall be good

Saying “I love every aspect of this game except the dungeons. Just a little work with the dungeons and all shall be good” still wont stop the fanboys/girls from flaming you fyi.

But I agree, I love the difficulty, but when you reward me with measly blue items and diminishing silver rewards at the end of the dungeon, when I dont even like the visual aesthetics of the medium dungeon armours, whats in it for me to do them?

I dont get money out of them, I get tokens id never use…
I mean :|

Rizzy.8293:

Saying “I love every aspect of this game except the dungeons. Just a little work with the dungeons and all shall be good” still wont stop the fanboys/girls from flaming you fyi.

But I agree, I love the difficulty, but when you reward me with measly blue items and diminishing silver rewards at the end of the dungeon, when I dont even like the visual aesthetics of the medium dungeon armours, whats in it for me to do them?

I dont get money out of them, I get tokens id never use…
I mean :|

Indeed. The difficulty is good, but I’m not a fan of the bugs and randomness. Also, it feels strange having absolutely no incentive to do a dungeon. Even when you obtain your exotic gear, there’s nothing after that except WvW and aesthetic changes.

I don’t really care about the fanboys lol. I’m sure they will come defending their game like Apple fanboys defending an iphone :-P

But I am truly happy with everything except the dungeon system.

Anet absolutely destroyed any incentive to run dungeons while leveling up now. In other words, we’re being forced to strictly grind DE’s/Events for exp since grinding mobs for exp is pathetic and dungeon exp is gone. The leveling system just became extremely linear in fashion and it turned me off from leveling any other toons now once my Necro hits 80 in 2 levels. Not only that but my buddy is no longer planning on leveling up because running events over and over again gets boring as bloody hell.

You guys NEED to do something about 2 things: Dungeon exp needs to be restored or at least be much better then it is now and secondly, increase the amount of exp you get from just killing mobs. That gives ppl other methods of leveling besides forcing us to run events over and over while beating our heads with a hammer.

Neb.5347:

Rizzy.8293:

Saying “I love every aspect of this game except the dungeons. Just a little work with the dungeons and all shall be good” still wont stop the fanboys/girls from flaming you fyi.

But I agree, I love the difficulty, but when you reward me with measly blue items and diminishing silver rewards at the end of the dungeon, when I dont even like the visual aesthetics of the medium dungeon armours, whats in it for me to do them?

I dont get money out of them, I get tokens id never use…
I mean :|

Indeed. The difficulty is good, but I’m not a fan of the bugs and randomness. Also, it feels strange having absolutely no incentive to do a dungeon. Even when you obtain your exotic gear, there’s nothing after that except WvW and aesthetic changes.

I don’t really care about the fanboys lol. I’m sure they will come defending their game like Apple fanboys defending an iphone :-P

But I am truly happy with everything except the dungeon system.

Fanboys are just as mad as everyone else. I personally have played since Guild Wars Prophicies all the way to EoTN and have been looking forward to GW2 for like 5 years. With that said I am extremely upset with this last update. Coming from GW1 the two main dungeons “Fissure of Woe” and “The Underworld” we’re extremely fun. We actually did speed runs and had fun doing it. You could pug it and do the speed runs and at the end you would get a chest and have a chance to get an exotic or legendary(we used to just call them golds).

Now with that said the dungeons were difficult and there were specific builds that we’re needed to complete them fast. I was hoping GW2 would of been the same way in the aspect of speed runs and having fun WITHOUT having to worry about what professions are in your group and who’s running what but it looks like its going to be the same way at this point.

The difficulty of the dungeons I believe are too high for the type of players they say they want to play their game. I think that’s what I’m more upset about, they say it’s for the casual gamer and theirs no grinding but they keep on adding more things to make it a grind.

With all that said at the end of the dungeons I expect to get good things, good money and good experience and now we have none of that so there is 0 reason to run a dungeon for an hour(if we’re lucky) just to get kitten at the end.

They’re doing another patch soon though hopefully they’ll fix it.

I actually started dungeoning because over the course of 4 hrs I finished a map and saw 2 DE’s, 1 was broken. I’m on Borlis Pass so WvW clearly isn’t an option. So, dungeons it was. And they were 100x more fun and less grindy than I ever expected. I hated the weak chests though. And then Anet went and broke that too. I’m coming back to GW2 in a week. Hopefully things will be fixed by then. I don’t want to throw my laptop across the room.

Agreed 100%. There is absolutely no reason to do any sort of content at level 80 anymore.

Nice way of shutting out the discussion – saying I’m a fanboy when I disagree. Either way I disagree – to some extent, of course. The bugs are annoying, and they need to be fixed. As far as my experience goes difficult mobs are notthing compared to bugged mobs.

But the thing is – I actually don’t need to run the dungeons – I already crafted full draconic set, which means I do have my exotics. Yet i still find them fun (excluding the bugs). Masochistic perhaps, but fun nevetheless. I do focus more on the dungeons tha I have some marks for, but that doesn’t stop me from going other exploration modes and banking some marks from them for later. Because guess what – I don’t need any of the gear already, so if I’m doing it for aesthetics and the runs themselves I might as well get all sort of different looks.

But then again – I’m a support/control guardian, and that does make playing dungeons far more enjoyable.

Hmm my quote button is gone.

I wasn’t saying if you disagree you are a fanboy. I was simply talking about the fanboys that will blindly disagree with what I have to say instead of process it and form an unbiased opinion.

Sometimes I wonder why you people coming on forums can’t step back for a moment and realize that your assertions are ridiculous. You are basing things so self centricly that you assume the vast majority is YOU. It’s not news to me that some people will do dungeons and play the game in general 100% of the time for the goal of obtaining specific in-game items, but perhaps it is news to you that not everyone will do dungeons for this reason. Perhaps it’s news to you that your notion of incentivization is not universal and in fact some gamers will feel incentive towards completing a dungeon because it is a fun activity to do with others. However, as a minor note, you can use those dungeon tokens for other items aside from full sets of armor, I’m unsure if you’re purposefully neglecting to mention this or are just bizzarly oblivious to it. There are weapons, runes, sigils, gifts (used to craft legendaries), but that’s if you are fixated on these shiny shinnies, which NOT everyone is. If there is a problem with dungeons, it’s not lack of incentive and you’re just way off base, sorry. Difference of playstyle maybe prevents you from coming to terms with dungeons as is.

Wiking, you don’t mind the changes, because they don’t really affect you.

As you’ve stated, you already have your gear from crafting. You aren’t running a dungeon 50+ times. It’s very easy to dismiss complaints as a tourist. I can do it with the WvW system. If there are large problems there, I can just say, “seems fine to me,” because I don’t have extensive experience in it.

Try to view it from the perspective of someone who has done an instance quite a few times over the course of a week, and they start getting 2 silver and 17k experience at the end of an hour dungeon.

You can get 2 silver and 17k from an event that takes 1-2 minutes. You can get just as much loot from that event. Do you see how people can feel a bit underwhelmed with the rewards of dungeons?

You don’t have to agree, but try to understand, at least.

Grenic Lonnes.7546:

Sometimes I wonder why you people coming on forums can’t step back for a moment and realize that your assertions are ridiculous. You are basing things so self centricly that you assume the vast majority is YOU. It’s not news to me that some people will do dungeons and play the game in general 100% of the time for the goal of obtaining specific in-game items, but perhaps it is news to you that not everyone will do dungeons for this reason. Perhaps it’s news to you that your notion of incentivization is not universal and in fact some gamers will feel incentive towards completing a dungeon because it is a fun activity to do with others. However, as a minor note, you can use those dungeon tokens for other items aside from full sets of armor, I’m unsure if you’re purposefully neglecting to mention this or are just bizzarly oblivious to it. There are weapons, runes, sigils, gifts (used to craft legendaries), but that’s if you are fixated on these shiny shinnies, which NOT everyone is. If there is a problem with dungeons, it’s not lack of incentive and you’re just way off base, sorry. Difference of playstyle maybe prevents you from coming to terms with dungeons as is.

Perhaps you should look at the mass influx of threads about the issues I bring up. Then you will see that it is the majority of players that have no desire to run a dungeon 60 times to acquire the end-game gear. The fact it takes this much effort, when identical gear can be obtained by other means, is simply idiotic. I am not saying herpkittenI only care about shiny loots. I am saying the dungeons offer no real incentive to play them beyond once or twice for the “experience”.

Sure doing dungeons is a fun activity to do with others. For the first few runs. After that, its just the same kitten over and over again. That enjoyment fades fast.

If you really enjoy playing them 60 times then by all means go nuts. I can also say that it certainly appears that the majority of players are not enjoying the dungeons either. Maybe if they enjoyed them it wouldn’t be such a chore. But they don’t. They do everything they can to avoid doing them. They are buggy, random, and expensive to run for the majority of players.

And yes, I realize the marks can be used for other items, but that isn’t relevant to the issues I was raising. If anything, you’ve only pointed out that even more grinding is necessary than I had previously shown.

Arena Net’s solution to complaints of lack of end-game content is as follows:

1. Make dungeons, and accidentally make them tedious and unrewarding.
2. Make a blog post explaining how dungeons are great end-game content.
3. Make dungeons even MORE unfun and unrewarding to counteract how players attempt to make dungeons fun and rewarding on their own.

I know this is basically a caricaturization of the facts, but sadly, this is still what I honestly believe has happened.

“Then you will see that it is the majority of players that have no desire to run a dungeon 60 times to acquire the end-game gear.”

You mean the gear that is obtained from doing dungeons that happen to be lvl 80 and are exotic in rarity? Oh, that stuff is only end-game if you want it to be. I enjoy playing the game regardless of the number of times I do something, you make it a grind yourself because of your own mentality on the subject. Also, an influx of forum posts is irrelevant to the word “majority” unless you go about aggregating those numbers together and compare them to the number of active players. Good luck finding a majority then.

Dungeons are not expensive to run. You are doing it wrong if that is the case. Please learn to play properly first or not play at all if part of a dungeon is brokenly difficult/impossible for you regardless of whether it’s a fault of the game it would also be a fault to common sense to do so.

Dungeons are optional content that certainly can be said to be difficult, but the rewards for doing them is not the problem nor how long it would take to obtain them through how many runs. I’m not sorry that so many people are having issues with the difficulty of dungeons or the grind of it. However, grind is a non-issue and to say otherwise is ignorant. Difficulty might be optimized but the grind is fine the way it is and will always be fine because it has a place within the game for certain. Some dungeons are broken they are so difficult or impossible without using an unbalanced method to overcome them, these are the ONLY issues we should discuss about dungeons. If people want to fruitlessly complain about how it is too much work for them though… by all means, that’s why we have forums so they can post stupid things about not having epic gears and owning the game’s economy and having everyone bow down to them when they walk into town. Well, if it’s just the gear thing though, the game hasn’t been out long, and how long do you intend to play it? I guess you have decided these dungeon sets are out of the question from a matter of weeks after the game’s release, you must be some pro player who has exhausted every avenue of gameplay to come to the conclusion that it’s not viable or realist or worthwhile to do so.

Just stay on the forums and continue asking anet to make the game easy as hell just to suit you.

Miya: I understand that the rewards are very crappy right now (apart from tokens) and that it can be bad towards repair bills if you want to run a lot of dungeons. What I don’t get is why would you continue running through the dungeons ONLY for the tokens/gold. I mean doing 50+ of the same dungeon, same route may be tiring, but we have 23 other dungeon routes. If you swap around them your token income of the one type is getting way lower, but it’s definitely more fun. As far as I see the current change are incentive to people transfixed on burning themselves out in one dungeon route, to go somewhere else.

Or rather – let me rephrase it: I get it, that when you want to get full set from one dungeon (which can be aesthetic, stats, whatever reason) this change is a slap in the face, and the initial idea of the poster to have marks shared among many dungeons would fix that. But still — if you’re forcing yourselves to do something you dislike, just because there is a shiny reward out there isn’t that kinda defeating the purpose of the game?
The reason I mentioned I already have exotics is to point out just that – my incentive is just that: I like these dungeons. As long as I’m not repeating one over and over again I can run a lot of them and enjoy it a lot.

Neb.5347:

Once you hit level 80, there are a few ways you can go about obtaining your exotic set. Dungeons, crafting, and karma.

The problem with doing dungeons for exotics is once you do one dungeon, say CoF, you now have 30ish marks for THAT exotic set. There is no longer any reason to do any other dungeon, because you need to run CoF about 60 times to complete your CoF exotic set. Any other dungeon you run at that point serves no purpose, as you are now obtaining marks for an entirely different set. So unless you want to have a weird mix of different sets, you will only focus on one dungeon. Grind fest much? No one likes this. It needs to be reworked. And once you obtain this set, how much incentive is there to go to other dungeons? To go get a set with identical stats but different looks? Can’t say I see the majority of players dishing out hours and hours and hours and hours for some aesthetic changes to their toons.

If you want people to run more than one dungeon, then perhaps you could have only one or two types of marks, and have those work for all the different sets. That way, I don’t feel forced to run CoF 15 times a day, and instead I can bounce around to different dungeons and experience all of them.

The next reason that dungeons don’t need to be completed is that their difficulties do not remotely match their rewards. Nothing says success like wiping 30 times to a boss only to receive a blue Focus! I’ve literally never received an upgrade from a dungeon outside of the marks for my exotic set. Neither I nor many of the dozens I play with find dungeons all that enjoyable in the first place. It is literally a chore for most. Do you think people are grinding CoF because they just love it so much? People are avoiding your dungeons. They don’t like them. This is a red flag staring you in the face.
I have no problem with difficulty, I’ve always welcomed difficulty in dungeons. However, there is a difference between difficulty and fighting a group of mobs with a billion life for 5 minutes. That’s just boring.

With a little farming for mats, you can craft your entire exotic set without any of that hassle. You don’t ever need to enter a dungeon for your best gear. It isn’t necessary.

So, unless you actually believe people enjoy running the same dungeons hundreds of times, infested with bugs and complete randomness, just for the hell of it, you need to rework your system entirely.

I love every aspect of this game except the dungeons. Just a little work with the dungeons and all shall be good

The title of your little rant is misleading.

Are you saying that as a player, you don’t like how much you need to run one dungeon in order to get a full set of exotic gear? You must be talking about an aesthetic set in this case, because as you said yourself there are other ways to obtain exotic gear that is identical in stats. It is this fact that you use as your basis for saying that there is no reason to do dungeons anymore, because “you only need to do them to get specific sets of gear.” That’s exactly it. You only NEED to run dungeons repeatedly if you are after specific looking gear. You never NEEDED to run dungeons to get exotics at all. You are saying that you would like to be able to get your specific look by running a wider variety of dungeons. That has nothing to do at all with whether or not there is a ‘reason’ to do dungeons. It’s the same as your second reason, that they are hard and that the rewards do not feel big enough. So what? You don’t like the payoff, that doesn’t mean there is no reason to do them. You said yourself you like the challenge. So play the game because it is a challenging game.

Just like you said, running dungeons isn’t necessary. If you think the rewards need to be improved, say that instead of being whiny and making dramatic sounding posts like this. You started a thread based on a ridiculous rant that probably didn’t even make you feel better, just to try to get sympathy from other people. Stop trying to sound like you speak for everyone, its embarrassing for everyone who isn’t you.

Grenic Lonnes.7546:

“Then you will see that it is the majority of players that have no desire to run a dungeon 60 times to acquire the end-game gear.”

You mean the gear that is obtained from doing dungeons that happen to be lvl 80 and are exotic in rarity? Oh, that stuff is only end-game if you want it to be. I enjoy playing the game regardless of the number of times I do something, you make it a grind yourself because of your own mentality on the subject. Also, an influx of forum posts is irrelevant to the word “majority” unless you go about aggregating those numbers together and compare them to the number of active players. Good luck finding a majority then.

Dungeons are not expensive to run. You are doing it wrong if that is the case. Please learn to play properly first or not play at all if part of a dungeon is brokenly difficult/impossible for you regardless of whether it’s a fault of the game it would also be a fault to common sense to do so.

Dungeons are optional content that certainly can be said to be difficult, but the rewards for doing them is not the problem nor how long it would take to obtain them through how many runs. I’m not sorry that so many people are having issues with the difficulty of dungeons or the grind of it. However, grind is a non-issue and to say otherwise is ignorant. Difficulty might be optimized but the grind is fine the way it is and will always be fine because it has a place within the game for certain. Some dungeons are broken they are so difficult or impossible without using an unbalanced method to overcome them, these are the ONLY issues we should discuss about dungeons. If people want to fruitlessly complain about how it is too much work for them though… by all means, that’s why we have forums so they can post stupid things about not having epic gears and owning the game’s economy and having everyone bow down to them when they walk into town. Well, if it’s just the gear thing though, the game hasn’t been out long, and how long do you intend to play it? I guess you have decided these dungeon sets are out of the question from a matter of weeks after the game’s release, you must be some pro player who has exhausted every avenue of gameplay to come to the conclusion that it’s not viable or realist or worthwhile to do so.

Just stay on the forums and continue asking anet to make the game easy as hell just to suit you.

I rarely wipe in dungeons, I was speaking about the majority of players. You can’t honestly be entertained by doing the same dungeons again and again. I wish I was so easily entertained. Grinding to an extent is expected. However, there is no way people will want to do the same dungeon over and over again.

Not once have I complained about the difficulty of the dungeons, so I don’t know why you even bring up that subject or imply that I am “asking anet to make the game easy as hell just to suit me.” You are starting to sound like a fanboy.

I always welcome challenges, and I enjoy challenging content. However, there needs to be a reason other than the challenge itself to do the dungeon more than a few times. Because unless you are just wildly entertained by mundane activities, its going to get dull fast.

You don’t have to be a pro player to exhaust every avenue of game-play in this game. I simply cannot repeat the same activities over and over like you appear to be able to do.

There are reasons to do dungeons:Fun,Challenge and many,many other thingies

Winston.2489:

The title of your little rant is misleading.

Are you saying that as a player, you don’t like how much you need to run one dungeon in order to get a full set of exotic gear? You must be talking about an aesthetic set in this case, because as you said yourself there are other ways to obtain exotic gear that is identical in stats. It is this fact that you use as your basis for saying that there is no reason to do dungeons anymore, because “you only need to do them to get specific sets of gear.” That’s exactly it. You only NEED to run dungeons repeatedly if you are after specific looking gear. You never NEEDED to run dungeons to get exotics at all. You are saying that you would like to be able to get your specific look by running a wider variety of dungeons. That has nothing to do at all with whether or not there is a ‘reason’ to do dungeons. It’s the same as your second reason, that they are hard and that the rewards do not feel big enough. So what? You don’t like the payoff, that doesn’t mean there is no reason to do them. You said yourself you like the challenge. So play the game because it is a challenging game.

Just like you said, running dungeons isn’t necessary. If you think the rewards need to be improved, say that instead of being whiny and making dramatic sounding posts like this. You started a thread based on a ridiculous rant that probably didn’t even make you feel better, just to try to get sympathy from other people. Stop trying to sound like you speak for everyone, its embarrassing for everyone who isn’t you.

The challenge only goes so far. It stops being challenging when you figure it out. Once you run a dungeon a few times, its just repetitive and dull. If you honestly can be entertained continuously by doing that then I am impressed. I suppose another issue I have is that once you have run the dungeons the only thing left to do is WvW/spvp till your eyes fall out. Unless you are actually entertained by insane amounts of repetition.

There is little “ranting” in my thread. I simply point out issues that are problematic in the game, and offer ways to change them. Hit the back button and scroll through the other 20 pages of complaints about the same thing. I really don’t think I am alone.

If this was a game that you played, beat, and stopped playing then what you are saying would make sense. But its not, its an MMO. It should offer incentives to keep playing its PvE content(note I am discussing PvE content). GW2 was intended to satisfy both PvE and PvP players.