Guild Wars 2

Hate me guys, but I can kind of understand Guang’s point… well, at least 50% of it. He is right when he says that engie buffs > warrior buffs.

If we take group play, that’s only the case in a completely unorganized PUG where everyone is a certain youtuber’s subscriber (so it’s more reasonable to run might duration runes and other fancy stuff).

When it comes to soloing, warriors simply have the higher damage against single targets in any non-reflect situation. My guess is that engineers could have higher damage on 5 targets (AOE limit)? They can also reflect. So DPS wise it’s just a different cup of tea. Survivability should be about the same on both classes.

Engi’s might is less sustained than warriors. Forceful gs is better than being able to blast a few times every few seconds in a solo setting. Obviously the might stacking on engi helps the group more. But engi’s dps is lower.

If Engi solo > warrior solo why does engi have a 9min lupi solo and warrior have 4min. 6u4n6m47h

A war with forceful gs is sometimes the only thing that can keep your sanity up in a full tank pug. What’s better between interrupting your dps rotation every now and then on engi stacking might for a bad group while still not being able to reach a full potential on your own, or a war who can self stack better, with burst (hundred, whirlwind on a wall) on gs reaching 25 might, banners etc and just killing mobs a lot faster ? in a pug slow to kill things you won’t even be able to maintain that much might during the fight on engi for multiple reasons : overlapping combo fields, the inability to use some of your blast finishers (you can’t possibly be thinking of using big ol’ bomb while fighting pack of trashs are you?) etc. Warrior just pops signet, FGJ, swaps weapon (battle sigil), hundred blades and he’s good to go. Nothing except for signet cast will interrupt your dps rotation. Situation for blast finisher use is different for a speedclear group that can kill everything during the duration of said might stacks, and a pug where you’ll find yourself constantly needing more might stacking rotations instead of pure dps rotations because of a much longer fight.

I love engi but the ability to solo dps of a war in a group that has bad dps is stronger, there is no denying it.

Now, engi brings other things that can help a bad pug, so it’s not only about damage at times. Stealth can get some pugs through stuff they’d usually fail to skip for example. The class has great versatility and the support, while not being on guardian’s level, isn’t too bad overall. Blinds, chills, some reflect, ability to group heal, guard level of cond removal..

How are you getting 25 might with a warrior solo? Forceful Greatsword might lasts 5s, it’ll already be dropping off by the time you switch back to axe.

Engineer can sustain 9 stacks of might on the party minimum (BOB, shield blast, one other utility) and that’s 100% (you can bring it up to 12 if you use the heal turret too). That’s way more sustained than a warrior’s which is going to fluctuate between 6-10 stacks and pretty only only affects himself. Also the bomb combo doesn’t actually cost you any DPS because of how much damage BOB does, it actually does more than just raw grenades if you’re using Acid Bomb as your third blast.

I don’t have the spreadsheet open in front of me but last I checked a one-banner (Discipline), solo warrior (10 might, 10 vuln, about 80% fury) with meta build deals about 6k/s, whereas a no-banner solo engineer (12 might, 20 vuln, no fury) with meta deals about 5.2k/s.

That means the warrior deals only about 10% more than the engineer at a significant group support and survivability cost.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

How are you getting 25 might with a warrior solo? Forceful Greatsword might lasts 5s, it’ll already be dropping off by the time you switch back to axe.

100B against three mobs is an easy 15 or so and if you WWA into a wall, you’re there without even factoring SoR or FGJ, both of which you should have and provide 8. If you have to use BS to save downed allies instead of SoR, that gives you a perma 6-7 too. The 25 stacks aren’t up long, but you totally flash at 25 for a very non-negligible part of every well-positioned fight.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Warrior has crap survivability. You’re going to be dropping super fast since pugs don’t have the DPS to enable you to stay up 100% without any defensive skills.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Also the bomb combo doesn’t actually cost you any DPS because of how much damage BOB does, it actually does more than just raw grenades if you’re using Acid Bomb as your third blast.

Wait, what?

So you’re seriously proposing to use Big Ol’ during the fight and not only as a prestack? Don’t you even realize why you shouldn’t use it. In the case of big ol’, it’s not because of its damage.
Frankly if you include Big Ol’ in your rotation during a fight you’re not better than the typical GS mesmer and if I were to get you in one of my runs my patience would run thin very quickly.

The same thing is true of shield 4 at times although it’s not as bad as BOB.

Rising Dusk already answered the other point.

Nikaido.3457:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Also the bomb combo doesn’t actually cost you any DPS because of how much damage BOB does, it actually does more than just raw grenades if you’re using Acid Bomb as your third blast.

Wait, what?

So you’re seriously proposing to use Big Ol’ during the fight and not only as a prestack? Don’t you even realize why you shouldn’t use it. In the case of big ol’, it’s not because of its damage.
Frankly if you include Big Ol’ in your rotation during a fight you’re not better than the typical GS mesmer and if I were to get you in one of my runs my patience would run thin very quickly.

The same thing is true of shield 4 at times although it’s not as bad as BOB.

Rising Dusk already answered the other point.

Pugs, buddy, stacking doesn’t happen. Alternately, make sure you drop when the boss has Defiant stacks on, or when you blast it into the wall, etc.

Ask anyone who runs with me how often I’ve blasted mobs out of stacks and the answer will be “never”. So I’m probably doing something right in general. Not like I’m using GS 5 on cooldown.

lel it’s like Fear.

In the hands of a pug necromancer, it’s scary, but when you know to use it in a position that just has the enemies cower in the corner for those 3 seconds, it can actually be really, really useful (more than it should be).

Saved a pug or two in my day with Tremor + “Fear Me!” despite it being a massive (organized) speed group faux-pas (pug speed groups are top kek).

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t have the spreadsheet open in front of me but last I checked a one-banner (Discipline), solo warrior (10 might, 10 vuln, about 80% fury) with meta build deals about 6k/s, whereas a no-banner solo engineer (12 might, 20 vuln, no fury) with meta deals about 5.2k/s.

Which is why warrior solo’s usually take about 1/3 of the time an engineer solo takes for the same boss, using HGH (which is stronger for solo play but relies havily on condition damage).

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

That means the warrior deals only about 10% more than the engineer at a significant group support and survivability cost.

So 15% critdamage, (180 power,) 170 precision, 170 power, 170 condition damage, 8s (or perma) fury, guaranteed 3-6 might stacks and ~10 vulnerability compared to ~9-12 might with 75% uptime and 20 vulnerability stacks is a huge loss in group support? The warrior does not even have to pick empower allies and would still contribute a lot more than an engineer.

As for survivability: Warriors have the most evasions/time even without vigor (and they have easy access to), a 3s block on 15s cooldown, the highest base HP and the highest HP/s heal.
Engineers have “only” perma vigor and one 1 1/2 second block on 40 second cooldown together with medium base HP and a pretty strong, but not even close to as strong as the warriors, HP/s heal.

On my ele I would run one of the fresh air builds with dagger and focus (fractals especially) or for dungeons a scepter + focus/dagger and a 30/x/x/20/20..

The dungeon build gives me easy access to might and fury stacking and still decent with conjurers if I pick the proper traits. For survivability I can pick perma fury and elemental attument for easy boons on swap, and if really needed swap some water traits. Due to low precision with that build I would be mainly running signet of fire. The other traits depend.

However usually if you join decent compositions and only allow melee zerkers, things are pretty decent. I never run a full dmg lightning hammer build in pugs though or a staff build.

I’m just pointing out that you don’t need conjurer trait when you use ice bow in AC. if you disable the autoattack (which barely makes a difference since it’s so terrible at damage), you shouldn’t have any trouble with running out of conjure weapon charges.

conjurer is only really helpful for pure LH ele builds and those times when you want a lot of FGS charges. it doesn’t affect the effectiveness of ice bow much if at all, since its dps skills aren’t AAs.

this is engineer pug build for dungeon and fractals i was thinking about http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelcTp6qVWxPLseNiA6hdBYjooH63jNZfKIXA-zUyAYrASRAJCAJyioxW5CbpLIVwoprxUuER1BAOAY4hHe4hHuQAjmAA-w since pugs dont stack might u can get like 20+ perma might for u and some nice stacks for ur party members with bomb 2 1blast from BOB 1 blast shield and 3 from turret and u also get party buffs from elixirs tool belts and some buffs for u also bomb 4 for drege and some skiping what u think about it ?