Guild Wars 2

Perfect, that means there is time to clear Spirit Vale on Monday
Will we have any trailer for Salvation Pass before it launches?

Sounds great!

Will the release just be raid related, or will there be other stuff?

Good, content for 10% of player only…

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

“Pro players” as you call them have been waiting for appropriate content for 3 years.

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

There are pro players in every aspect of the game.

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

If only we actually got content for “pro player” :’(

Axelwarrior.9084:

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

“Pro players” as you call them have been waiting for appropriate content for 3 years.

Now then why do pro player exclude adequate skill, geared players from that very content? I never had a bigger issue then finding a spot in raid, and i went true a lot of trouble to get a full viper set for two professions, including the hard to get mordrem loop amulet. Usually i’m the player making the fewest mistakes on VG.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

“Pro players” as you call them have been waiting for appropriate content for 3 years.

Now then why do pro player exclude adequate skill, geared players from that very content? I never had a bigger issue then finding a spot in raid, and i went true a lot of trouble to get a full viper set for two professions, including the hard to get mordrem loop amulet. Usually i’m the player making the fewest mistakes on VG.

The problem here would be that you’re trying to pug raids.

The real problem here is that providing exclusive content for a fraction of your paying customers is economic suicide.

eldrin.6471:

The real problem here is that providing exclusive content for a fraction of your paying customers is economic suicide.

ok lets compare what “pro” players got and what casual players got

Casuals:
4 massive open world maps with tons of events
Story
tons of achievements and collections
still the same old tyria world and events

“pro”:
raids once a week
dungeons -66% of the reward
fractals -50+% of the playtime

so yeah they definitely provide exclusive content for “pros”

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Predator.2847:

Good, content for pro player only…

“Pro players” as you call them have been waiting for appropriate content for 3 years.

Now then why do pro player exclude adequate skill, geared players from that very content? I never had a bigger issue then finding a spot in raid, and i went true a lot of trouble to get a full viper set for two professions, including the hard to get mordrem loop amulet. Usually i’m the player making the fewest mistakes on VG.

Are you complaining that players can choose who they want to play with?

So much time and money wasted on raids, They should of never been in this game.

Your so called pros will have had 2 raid wings since hot,what have the rest of the players who payed for this expansion had? sweet f all.

eldrin.6471:

Your so called pros will have had 2 raid wings since hot,what have the rest of the players who payed for this expansion had? sweet f all.

Id like to try what you’re smoking. Must be out of this world.

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

eldrin.6471:

Your so called pros will have had 2 raid wings since hot,what have the rest of the players who payed for this expansion had? sweet f all.

…basically all of HoT? Lmao

More content for party 80% dps… No more timers please… Heralds dps armor, phalanx dps amor, conds vipers dps armor… No slots for others combinations

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

As long as Arenanet does not forget the “contra players” they can design content for “pro players”.

It will be interesting to see whether we experience more variety in encounters within Salvation Pass. So far we saw DPS-centered encounters. IT would be time for other ones. Let us see how much talent, visions and courage the developers have. The raids need more GW2 flair.

Myself, and many of my friends, are actually very disheartened with the introduction of raiding in this game.

The toxicity between players, the elitism, has never been higher. I tried many a times to get into a good raiding guild. I’ve done a LOT of effort, but I failed time upon time. I know for a fact I’m not the only one. Most of my friends have had this issue as well.

Raiding ruined this game for me. I don’t even feel the incentive to log in for my dailies any longer…

I’m refraining of buying any more gems for this game for quite a while. The focus here seems to be on content that a small percentage of the player base can complete and, let’s be fair here, is the most vocal & arrogant part of this community.

Christ, if I would put this on reddit the downvotes would crash the kitten site. I’m just sad that my will to play this game has disappeared (as have most of my friend’s).

This was a horrible move of yours, Arenanet. The game was build for the ones that liked to relax. This content takes it all away.

You know, I’ll be honest. I wouldn’t even mind it that much if the rewards of raids were only cosmetic. But they’re not. Legendary armor is a big reason for why many of my friends tried to get into raids. I really hope they’re adding a secondary way of obtaining it, otherwise I doubt Arenanet is going to see some veteran costumers going back to the game.

Oh hurrah, I was sure we’d have a longer wait (expected long drawn out sneak peaks and the like). Glad its coming soon ^^

Aesa.4819:

Perfect, that means there is time to clear Spirit Vale on Monday
Will we have any trailer for Salvation Pass before it launches?

Thats something i hope to see too.

Ps: whats with the announcment webside LS season 2 used? will this be a thing again sometime soon?

And do we get the other 999 promised updates with this patch? Going by current speeds we will see the full set of legends in about 3 years.

Holy freaking crap, people, if you don’t like raids or don’t want challenging content, then DON’T PLAY IT. For 3 years, we’ve had pretty much 0 challenging group content. Then HoT comes out, and a single raid wing is added that requires a modicum of effort and communication between teammates, and suddenly the game isn’t worth playing any more?

With the exception of some ascended trinkets stat choices (which I’m hoping will be addressed soon), you’re not even lacking any power by choosing not to do raids. You want the highest quality equipment? Well guess what, you can still have it. You’ve been able to have it for two years now. Raid rewards aren’t even that great in the first place; you’re better off doing daily fractals if you want ascended stuff.

Raids existing in the game doesn’t take away any content. You can still do fractals, dungeons, event maps, WB trains, WvW, sPvP, TP shenanigans, story instances, and whatnot. Don’t like any of that stuff? Then maybe you should take a break from the game

Some of us have been waiting for challenging content since the game launched, and honestly, raids have exceeded all my expectations for them. They’ve been implemented fantastically, and are at just the right level of difficulty to not require absolute optimization, but to still be a challenging experience, especially for groups new to the fight. Almost no one is doing these for the rewards; they aren’t that great. We’re doing it for the challenge, and making it trivial just so players who don’t want to put in effort can be appeased, it will take away pretty much all of the fun.

If you guys really, really want to do this content, you have to prepared to put in some time and effort. Maybe join a raiding guild; quite a few are still starting out, or willing to teach new players the ropes. But don’t go complaining on the forums that this optional content is too hard for you. I’m not good at WvW (zerging or roaming), but I don’t go bothering their forums and asking developers to remove it from the game because I personally can’t play it very well.

/rant

Anet should just give us all legendaries and ascended armor. Why bother working for anything.

Valky.2574:

So much time and money wasted on raids, They should of never been in this game.

It’s fine if you don’t like it but stop saying kitten like this when some people like it.

randomguy.1283:

Can the players who want to actually be challenged have ONE thing to ourselves? ONE thing? Raids are literally the only reason I still play this game, can I not be able to enjoy it? The content is focused on content for elite players? You’ve got to be kittening kidding me, EVERYTHING in this game except for raids is designed for casuals. Please, shut up.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you, but challenging content and raids are not mutually exclusive. You can have content that presents a challenge without it being in the form of a 10-player raid. There could easily be challenging dungeons or even solo encounters; in fact, the Queen’s Gauntlet (especially Liadri) is a great example of that. It’s even timed and “instanced” like raids, but takes the form of single player content instead.

Do not assume that the only way you can be challenged is via raids.

Retro.6831:

randomguy.1283:

Can the players who want to actually be challenged have ONE thing to ourselves? ONE thing? Raids are literally the only reason I still play this game, can I not be able to enjoy it? The content is focused on content for elite players? You’ve got to be kittening kidding me, EVERYTHING in this game except for raids is designed for casuals. Please, shut up.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you, but challenging content and raids are not mutually exclusive. You can have content that presents a challenge without it being in the form of a 10-player raid. There could easily be challenging dungeons or even solo encounters; in fact, the Queen’s Gauntlet (especially Liadri) is a great example of that. It’s even timed and “instanced” like raids, but takes the form of single player content instead.

Do not assume that the only way you can be challenged is via raids.

Dungeons: 5-man group content

Raids: 10-man group content

All that changed was that they actually tried to make more interesting bosses and it’s 10 people instead of 5, which has arguably allowed more variety of classes to be used.

The Queen’s Gauntlet is a nice example of a challenge, but it’s not group content.

Regardless, the point isn’t that Raids are the only way to make a challenge, it’s just one of the few things in the game that is actually designed to be a challenge and one of the only things that will hopefully allow better PvE players to differentiate themselves by letting them show off their legendary armor that wasn’t bought with gold (this assumes they make the next wings much harder and impossible to beat without all 10 people trying; I.e. no more selling).

Malchior.5732:

Dungeons: 5-man group content

Raids: 10-man group content

All that changed was that they actually tried to make more interesting bosses and it’s 10 people instead of 5, which has arguably allowed more variety of classes to be used.

The Queen’s Gauntlet is a nice example of a challenge, but it’s not group content.

Regardless, the point isn’t that Raids are the only way to make a challenge, it’s just one of the few things in the game that is actually designed to be a challenge and one of the only things that will hopefully allow better PvE players to differentiate themselves by letting them show off their legendary armor that wasn’t bought with gold (this assumes they make the next wings much harder and impossible to beat without all 10 people trying; I.e. no more selling).

Randomguy.1283 didn’t mention groups at all in his post, only that “EVERYTHING in this game except for raids is designed for casuals.” I also specifically mentioned challenging dungeons, so I’m not sure why you feel the need to mention groups either.

He also makes the assumption that raids are the only method, the “ONE Thing” by which challenging content can be delivered, and assumes that anyone who is anti-raid is also anti-challenge, which isn’t the case.

First of all, there is no dungeon team in place anymore, so all of you can stop dreaming of a nearby future that entails new dungeons because it’s simply not on the table.

As a person who has been a member of the hardcore PvE community for over two years, I can assure you that at this point there is literally only ONE thing left that is even remotely challenging, being raids.

And I thought the Slothasor was going to be an April Fool’s joke. Can’t wait to see where the plot is going in there

Not into raids, but want a fun challenging 5 man content? Make brand new toons, and go do fractals! Did this last night, all 5 were level 2! We had a blast, noticed a few mechanics you don’t really pay attention to when your mowing things down at level 80. GW2 is about what you make of it. Come up with ideas to make the game fun for you. Think outside the box, and don’t be afraid to try things. You don’t have to do the “META” to have fun!

Valky.2574:

So much time and money wasted on raids, They should of never been in this game.

What’s your favorite type of content?

This way I to can make a threat about how it’s a waste of time and money and never should have been added to the game. Even though the fact it exist has nothing to do with me, and doesn’t make my life any worse off then it was before.

I wonder why and how the good news of the upcoming raid wing can bring forth much contradicting hilarity and mass hysteria regarding the very few hardcore content in such a dead casual game in GW2. I don’t think we ever have a consensus about GW2 raiding.

Edit: I’m going to echo a prevalent thought here: “If you enjoy a specific content, good for you, go celebrate it. If you don’t enjoy that content, no worry, your turn will come soon. No need to be that spiteful sour kitten.”

Lmao content only for pros? Nice joke, it wouldn’t have been possible to PUG raids if these were that way, and we all know it’s not…

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players here get next to nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp. Look at all those great rewards for wvw lol… Those mistforged weapons have sat there for 2 years collecting dust because players can’t buy them without tournament currency…Yay.

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

Also, players have asked for build savers since beta, yet now that those leet raids are here, the devs are working on making that happen…

Swagger.1459:

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players get nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp… Yay.

So if you don’t like the rewards, go complain in the pvp section? Some people do enjoy having a title or backpack that most other players will never have.

Now, just memorizing scripted AI seems to simplify the idea too much. Assuming the next wings are more difficult (which they should, because otherwise this is a failure), we should expect complete wipes with a single member committing a single mistake (actually, that could happen in Spirit Vale already, but some errors can be recovered from). You can’t tell me that’s easy just because it’s predictable; it’ll still take long practice hours (or days or weeks for most players).

Also, your “difficulty” in pvp varies a lot. Some metas get unkillable god-tanks or unstoppable killing machines that require essentially no skill and matchmaking that has allowed players to literally farm each other.

Swagger.1459:

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

And yet, the rewards for the raid are garbage in terms of gold/hour. I’m sure you get a lot more money playing low-rank PvP than raiding.

so much sense of entitlement…

“I want to play how I want with whatever gear I have. I am not good at dodging, learning mechanics or positioning myself since I am “casual player”. I don’t want to play to improve and just have fun but anet needs to give me the best rewards for my “effort”."

Plenty of “casual players” clear the wings every week. If raids are too hard, there is plenty of other content to improve your game play on first. But no, its never my own fault or lack of willing to learn/improve, its anet’s fault for bad content.

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players get nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp… Yay.

So if you don’t like the rewards, go complain in the pvp section? Some people do enjoy having a title or backpack that most other players will never have.

Now, just memorizing scripted AI seems to simplify the idea too much. Assuming the next wings are more difficult (which they should, because otherwise this is a failure), we should expect complete wipes with a single member committing a single mistake (actually, that could happen in Spirit Vale already, but some errors can be recovered from). You can’t tell me that’s easy just because it’s predictable; it’ll still take long practice hours (or days or weeks for most players).

Also, your “difficulty” in pvp varies a lot. Some metas get unkillable god-tanks or unstoppable killing machines that require essentially no skill and matchmaking that has allowed players to literally farm each other.

Swagger.1459:

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

And yet, the rewards for the raid are garbage in terms of gold/hour. I’m sure you get a lot more money playing low-rank PvP than raiding.

PvP here is World vs World and Structured Player vs Player…

Gold? Yeah, let’s talk gold per hour in wvw or spvp…

In raids you earn currency to purchase ascended gear, with more varieties coming. Raids will also get legendary armor… All this for beating scripted AI.

Tell me what players can earn in wvw and spvp compared to raid rewards?

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players get nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp… Yay.

So if you don’t like the rewards, go complain in the pvp section? Some people do enjoy having a title or backpack that most other players will never have.

Now, just memorizing scripted AI seems to simplify the idea too much. Assuming the next wings are more difficult (which they should, because otherwise this is a failure), we should expect complete wipes with a single member committing a single mistake (actually, that could happen in Spirit Vale already, but some errors can be recovered from). You can’t tell me that’s easy just because it’s predictable; it’ll still take long practice hours (or days or weeks for most players).

Also, your “difficulty” in pvp varies a lot. Some metas get unkillable god-tanks or unstoppable killing machines that require essentially no skill and matchmaking that has allowed players to literally farm each other.

Swagger.1459:

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

And yet, the rewards for the raid are garbage in terms of gold/hour. I’m sure you get a lot more money playing low-rank PvP than raiding.

PvP here is World vs World and Structured Player vs Player…

Gold? Yeah, let’s talk gold per hour in wvw or spvp…

In raids you earn currency to purchase ascended gear, with more varieties coming. Raids will also get legendary armor… All this for beating scripted AI.

Tell me what players can earn in wvw and spvp compared to raid rewards?

Do you know how long it takes a regular player to get enough tokens to actually get a full set of ascended gear through raiding? Assuming they don’t fail much and always get the magnetite cap, it will take them 13 weeks and a chunk of gold. Minimum. Of course, not including weapons or trinkets.

I’ll use full ascended Zojja’s Heavy armor as an example because that’s the one I made myself for raids. It costs you ~372g to make (can be cheaper if you work harder).
There are 91 days in 13 weeks.
There are 2184 hours in those 91 days.
Assuming you make a paltry 90s per hour by doing sPvP, you’ll have gotten 1965.60 gold total.

Lets be more realistic, though.
Lets say you sleep for 8 hours every single day (728 hours)
Lets say you work/study/whatever for another 8 hours every single day (another 728 hours)
Lets say you play 4 hours per day for those 13 weeks (364 hours)
Now lets assume you make that paltry 90s per hour (which I’m sure it can be much better than that in sPvP, especially with the reward tracks).

You’ll have gained 327.60 gold in that time, just 44.40 gold shy of your goal, which again, can be lowered.
But wait, buying your ascended armor via Magnetite Shards also costs gold! How much? 47.50 gold.

Conclusion: Raid rewards aren’t actually very good and they take a lot of practice and coordination. Actually, the rewards are so bad, that 90s per hour is better than raiding if you want ascended gear or anything else (because remember, Gold buys more than just ascended armor).

I didn’t consider WvW because it’s been established since forever that their rewards are lacking in comparison to anything else in the game. You should go complain about that instead of thinking Raids have amazing rewards, because they don’t.

*also, funnily enough, I got almost all my ascended weapons from casual PvP for no effort!

I get home from my full time job and pug raids on Mondays
I also see lots of other Eternals in Sapphire Division of PvP

There’s just this ridiculously entitled minority that’s pretending to be "casual’ when really they just refuse to attempt to participate in anything yet demand that everything be catered to them.

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players get nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp… Yay.

So if you don’t like the rewards, go complain in the pvp section? Some people do enjoy having a title or backpack that most other players will never have.

Now, just memorizing scripted AI seems to simplify the idea too much. Assuming the next wings are more difficult (which they should, because otherwise this is a failure), we should expect complete wipes with a single member committing a single mistake (actually, that could happen in Spirit Vale already, but some errors can be recovered from). You can’t tell me that’s easy just because it’s predictable; it’ll still take long practice hours (or days or weeks for most players).

Also, your “difficulty” in pvp varies a lot. Some metas get unkillable god-tanks or unstoppable killing machines that require essentially no skill and matchmaking that has allowed players to literally farm each other.

Swagger.1459:

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

And yet, the rewards for the raid are garbage in terms of gold/hour. I’m sure you get a lot more money playing low-rank PvP than raiding.

PvP here is World vs World and Structured Player vs Player…

Gold? Yeah, let’s talk gold per hour in wvw or spvp…

In raids you earn currency to purchase ascended gear, with more varieties coming. Raids will also get legendary armor… All this for beating scripted AI.

Tell me what players can earn in wvw and spvp compared to raid rewards?

Do you know how long it takes a regular player to get enough tokens to actually get a full set of ascended gear through raiding? Assuming they don’t fail much and always get the magnetite cap, it will take them 13 weeks and a chunk of gold. Minimum. Of course, not including weapons or trinkets.

I’ll use full ascended Zojja’s Heavy armor as an example because that’s the one I made myself for raids. It costs you ~372g to make (can be cheaper if you work harder).
There are 91 days in 13 weeks.
There are 2184 hours in those 91 days.
Assuming you make a paltry 90s per hour by doing sPvP, you’ll have gotten 1965.60 gold total.

Lets be more realistic, though.
Lets say you sleep for 8 hours every single day (728 hours)
Lets say you work/study/whatever for another 8 hours every single day (another 728 hours)
Lets say you play 4 hours per day for those 13 weeks (364 hours)
Now lets assume you make that paltry 90s per hour (which I’m sure it can be much better than that in sPvP, especially with the reward tracks).

You’ll have gained 327.60 gold in that time, just 44.40 gold shy of your goal, which again, can be lowered.
But wait, buying your ascended armor via Magnetite Shards also costs gold! How much? 47.50 gold.

Conclusion: Raid rewards aren’t actually very good and they take a lot of practice and coordination. Actually, the rewards are so bad, that 90s per hour is better than raiding if you want ascended gear or anything else (because remember, Gold buys more than just ascended armor).

I didn’t consider WvW because it’s been established since forever that their rewards are lacking in comparison to anything else in the game. You should go complain about that instead of thinking Raids have amazing rewards, because they don’t.

*also, funnily enough, I got almost all my ascended weapons from casual PvP for no effort!

I’m not going to argue that raid rewards are good (because they really aren’t, especially if your goal is to get a full set of ascended). But you aren’t taking into account the gold you make via raids (4g per new raid wing boss, 2g per old raid wing boss + 1g per event) or the (low) chance of getting an ascended drop normally from the bosses. In addition the total time spent in raid wing when it is on farm seems to be roughly 45 min -1.5 hours per week (x2 for magnetite shard cap), whereas your spvp example is 4 hours per day (28 hours per week). Conversely you can argue that the consumables spent on these bosses, particularly when you are learning the fights negates a lot of the gold reward.

GoldenTruth.2853:

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

Rym.1469:

Swagger.1459:

Malchior.5732:

Why is everything that requires any amount of skill so heavily frowned upon by such a large margin of the community?
No one’s forcing you to run them if you feel they’re too difficult and their rewards are rightfully exclusive to encourage players to get better and go on the raids and even then we’re still getting people that buy their way through it.

HoT is too hard? Well the only option is to literally L2P. Games should increase in difficulty as you get further, not remain the same and allow sloppy play in the highest levels. If you’re in HoT or any future expansion/raid, you should be expected to know how to play your class well.

If you just want a casual game to play, then you still can do that, but you can’t expect to just brainlessly go through it; you’re going to need to actually try.

Sure, raids take skill, but it’s sad to see these “exclusive” rewards are given for memorizing scripted AI and beating them.

Some of the most competent and knowledgable players I’ve gamed with over the years have participated in pvp areas of games. There were (few are still here) tons of amazing gw2 wvw and spvp players, but sadly there were/are zero “exclusive” rewards for these pro wvw players and a “meh” “exclusive” item in spvp. Sad.

What are leagues then? Badge next to the name is exclusive to PvP, as are the Legendary division titles.

“Their rewards are rightfully exclusive”…

So legendary armor and all those purchasable ascended are only offered to players that memorize scripted AI and beat it..

Sorry, but being competent in pvp areas of any game is much more difficult, yet players get nothing. Oh boy… Some titles and an awful looking back piece in spvp… Yay.

So if you don’t like the rewards, go complain in the pvp section? Some people do enjoy having a title or backpack that most other players will never have.

Now, just memorizing scripted AI seems to simplify the idea too much. Assuming the next wings are more difficult (which they should, because otherwise this is a failure), we should expect complete wipes with a single member committing a single mistake (actually, that could happen in Spirit Vale already, but some errors can be recovered from). You can’t tell me that’s easy just because it’s predictable; it’ll still take long practice hours (or days or weeks for most players).

Also, your “difficulty” in pvp varies a lot. Some metas get unkillable god-tanks or unstoppable killing machines that require essentially no skill and matchmaking that has allowed players to literally farm each other.

Swagger.1459:

But raids ya know… Leet content with the best reward structure lol.

And yet, the rewards for the raid are garbage in terms of gold/hour. I’m sure you get a lot more money playing low-rank PvP than raiding.

PvP here is World vs World and Structured Player vs Player…

Gold? Yeah, let’s talk gold per hour in wvw or spvp…

In raids you earn currency to purchase ascended gear, with more varieties coming. Raids will also get legendary armor… All this for beating scripted AI.

Tell me what players can earn in wvw and spvp compared to raid rewards?

Do you know how long it takes a regular player to get enough tokens to actually get a full set of ascended gear through raiding? Assuming they don’t fail much and always get the magnetite cap, it will take them 13 weeks and a chunk of gold. Minimum. Of course, not including weapons or trinkets.

I’ll use full ascended Zojja’s Heavy armor as an example because that’s the one I made myself for raids. It costs you ~372g to make (can be cheaper if you work harder).
There are 91 days in 13 weeks.
There are 2184 hours in those 91 days.
Assuming you make a paltry 90s per hour by doing sPvP, you’ll have gotten 1965.60 gold total.

Lets be more realistic, though.
Lets say you sleep for 8 hours every single day (728 hours)
Lets say you work/study/whatever for another 8 hours every single day (another 728 hours)
Lets say you play 4 hours per day for those 13 weeks (364 hours)
Now lets assume you make that paltry 90s per hour (which I’m sure it can be much better than that in sPvP, especially with the reward tracks).

You’ll have gained 327.60 gold in that time, just 44.40 gold shy of your goal, which again, can be lowered.
But wait, buying your ascended armor via Magnetite Shards also costs gold! How much? 47.50 gold.

Conclusion: Raid rewards aren’t actually very good and they take a lot of practice and coordination. Actually, the rewards are so bad, that 90s per hour is better than raiding if you want ascended gear or anything else (because remember, Gold buys more than just ascended armor).

I didn’t consider WvW because it’s been established since forever that their rewards are lacking in comparison to anything else in the game. You should go complain about that instead of thinking Raids have amazing rewards, because they don’t.

*also, funnily enough, I got almost all my ascended weapons from casual PvP for no effort!

I’m not going to argue that raid rewards are good (because they really aren’t, especially if your goal is to get a full set of ascended). But you aren’t taking into account the gold you make via raids (4g per new raid wing boss, 2g per old raid wing boss + 1g per event) or the (low) chance of getting an ascended drop normally from the bosses. In addition the total time spent in raid wing when it is on farm seems to be roughly 45 min -1.5 hours per week (x2 for magnetite shard cap), whereas your spvp example is 4 hours per day (28 hours per week). Conversely you can argue that the consumables spent on these bosses, particularly when you are learning the fights negates a lot of the gold reward.

Because the point of the raid comparison was that it was actually a very slow method of getting ascended armor (he did try to say you get ascended gear).
I’ve gotten more ascended drops from sPvP than raids personally.

Also, 45m – 1.5 hours per week assumes you actually have a group to farm the raid and reach the cap quickly. It can easily take you a lot more if you don’t have a set group and/or haven’t learned it. The spvp example is just a pathetically small one. You can get more gold/hour from tracks or winning games, even in unranked.

Not to mention that I’m comparing something that actually is very easy (winning low-rank sPvP games) to something that can be pretty challenging (organizing 10 people isn’t always easy; again, assuming you don’t have a set group, which most people do not).

If we want another comparison, which he probably should have picked instead, try Silverwastes or a HoT map, where you can get 5+ gold per hour for little effort.
Even if you play a single hour every day, you’ll out-pace the rewards from raids.
The real thing to complain about here is that casual PvE gets you better gold/hour than the most challenging content and that low-rank PvPers get more or less the same as high-rank PvPers.

The point is rewards offered.

AI fighting rewards are Ascended and legendary.

Player fighting rewards are scraps in comparison.

AI fighting is looking up dulfy to memorize boss and beat them to get best loot.

Players fighting other players is vastly more difficult and there are not any crutches or do overs, but those wvw and spvp players get awful loot.

Priorities.

Swagger.1459:

The point is rewards offered.

AI fighting rewards are Ascended and legendary.

Player fighting rewards are scraps in comparison.

AI fighting is looking up dulfy to memorize boss and beat them to get best loot.

Players fighting other players is vastly more difficult and there are not any crutches or do overs, but those wvw and spvp players get awful loot.

Priorities.

Player fighting rewards are gold, rare items, weapon/armor boxes, and chances at Ascended gear.

Then you’re grossly over-simplifying PvE. Execution and coordination is far more than just memorization.

Then you say PvP has no crutches, but this is Gw2. The pvp is far from balanced and is full of crutches. Here’s a few you should know: Scrapper, Power Herald, Condi Reaper. In the past, we’ve had even more variety in easy-mode builds. Remember Turret Engi? Terrible in competitive, but absolutely crushed most randoms.

Could the rewards be better for PvP and WvW? Maybe, but also consider how top players were literally farming lower ranks and abusing the most disgustingly overpowered crap they could come up with for effortless wins. What you should complain about is the rewards in casual PvE being FAR BETTER than Raids or even high-end PvP. WvW has a lot more variables, so it’s never going to be easy to balance those rewards.

Swagger.1459:

The point is rewards offered.

AI fighting rewards are Ascended and legendary.

Player fighting rewards are scraps in comparison.

AI fighting is looking up dulfy to memorize boss and beat them to get best loot.

Players fighting other players is vastly more difficult and there are not any crutches or do overs, but those wvw and spvp players get awful loot.

Priorities.

Fighting other players is not necessarily more difficult, because your enemies can be complete kitten. lol

Swagger.1459:

The point is rewards offered.

AI fighting rewards are Ascended and legendary.

Player fighting rewards are scraps in comparison.

AI fighting is looking up dulfy to memorize boss and beat them to get best loot.

Players fighting other players is vastly more difficult and there are not any crutches or do overs, but those wvw and spvp players get awful loot.

Priorities.

Be good enough and compete in the pro scene. The rewards there are better than anything PvE will ever give.

Malchior.5732:

Swagger.1459:

The point is rewards offered.

AI fighting rewards are Ascended and legendary.

Player fighting rewards are scraps in comparison.

AI fighting is looking up dulfy to memorize boss and beat them to get best loot.

Players fighting other players is vastly more difficult and there are not any crutches or do overs, but those wvw and spvp players get awful loot.

Priorities.

Player fighting rewards are gold, rare items, weapon/armor boxes, and chances at Ascended gear.

Then you’re grossly over-simplifying PvE. Execution and coordination is far more than just memorization.

Then you say PvP has no crutches, but this is Gw2. The pvp is far from balanced and is full of crutches. Here’s a few you should know: Scrapper, Power Herald, Condi Reaper. In the past, we’ve had even more variety in easy-mode builds. Remember Turret Engi? Terrible in competitive, but absolutely crushed most randoms.

Could the rewards be better for PvP and WvW? Maybe, but also consider how top players were literally farming lower ranks and abusing the most disgustingly overpowered crap they could come up with for effortless wins. What you should complain about is the rewards in casual PvE being FAR BETTER than Raids or even high-end PvP. WvW has a lot more variables, so it’s never going to be easy to balance those rewards.

We can talk semantics all day, but the facts are that scripted combat is given a path to the best rewards. Unscripted combat is given no path to the best rewards.

Surely the devs can can create a fancy new wvw and spvp currency to buy equivalent gear offered in raids and provide paths to legendary gears. It would not be unreasonable or unfitting considering it takes true skill, time, effort, determination… to be successful in competitive combat and environments.