Guild Wars 2

Those who say that Raid’s should be exclusive for only 1-2 % of the player population need to rethink.
if only 1%-2% of the players enter Raids how long do you think it will take for ANET to scrap all plans on new content for Raid’s?
Such a small percentage of the players don’t even pay for the cost of fixing bug’s in the existing Raid.
If such a BIG high reward part of the game is unplayable for the majority it will be hard to sell further extensions, and just do the math, 1-2% of existing players will not pay for the cost of development, not even close.

Raid’s aren’t the only part of the game. They’re a very small fraction of the game. I wouldn’t even say the rewards are that high when even the best groups with teamspeak take so many hours trying to beat each raid boss. And regardless how good you become at the raid, you can still only reap the rewards once a week. And that takes a great deal of time and dedication in the first place.

Raids are not the only part of an expansion, far from it in fact, so I really don’t get how this is a problem…not to mention you can only claim rewards once per week so the fear that the rest of the game will lose its major elite players that used to kind of lead the way is irrelevant as well

I tried it and it was ok
Saw the pic of a rifle dropped from a raid boss then lost interest, legendary armor is 3 years too late for me ,the only thing it would do is save some bank space
But i have other things prioritized like making Astralaria , Sunrize and the fractal backpiece after that ill probably just log in for the daily and living story

Kagamiku.9731:

Raid’s aren’t the only part of the game. They’re a very small fraction of the game. I wouldn’t even say the rewards are that high when even the best groups with teamspeak take so many hours trying to beat each raid boss. And regardless how good you become at the raid, you can still only reap the rewards once a week. And that takes a great deal of time and dedication in the first place.

Yada Yada ………………, heard it all before in GW1 when the Deep and Urgoz first opened, first couple of run’s took well over 12 hours with 12 players in well organized guild groups, a month later Pug’s did it in less than 4 hours. All it takes is practice, wipe out after wipe out until you get it.
But the stupid notion that only a very small percentage of the players should be able to do Raid’s needs to stop.

Raids have a dedicated, newly hired developer team and Anet + the newly hired team were aware of this from the beginning and wanted it to be like this. Why would you think they’re going to can raids if it’s playing out like they anticipated?
Also, it’s not even a week since raids are out, give it some godkitten time to get strats or even kills down, why do people want everything handed to them on a silver platter?

I doubt that it will be for 1-2% of the players base. So far in my guild around 10-20% of ours players are interested or already started doing raid. It’s hard to see what will be the percentage of players doing raid in the long run. Will some people get tired of wiping for 3-10hours to figure out each boss or each wing? (Me i love it, but not everybody). Will people figure out that it’s not their thing? Maybe people are waiting that tactics and composition are developped before they go in? Hard to know.

Anyone that has raided in other MMOs knows that difficulty modes are an inevitability, it’s not a question on IF they’re going to be added but WHEN.

Anyone who is aware of GW2’s history in regards to the last 3 years and is a fan of the raids as they currently are better hope and pray they add some kind of difficulty system otherwise this current raid will be the last one ever added.

Personally I don’t mind if 99% of players want modes added, I’d take that over a nerf and no choice on the matter. They can do their mode and I can do mine, it’s worked well in other games.

Why are people so certain that there won’t be any more raids if they don’t get easy in any way? I don’t understand it, I really don’t.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Why are people so certain that there won’t be any more raids if they don’t get easy in any way? I don’t understand it, I really don’t.

Because the vast majority of players who is excluded from this content won’t pay for this kind of content?

Anything that has a low player population is either killed off or abandoned, ANET are very metrics focused developer which is a smart way to do things.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

Anything that has a low player population is either killed off or abandoned, ANET are very metrics focused developer which is a smart way to do things.

ANet hired raid devs with the intention to create a raid that is brutally difficult for most players and will stay a decent challenge even months in. They achieved exactly this. Why again do you think they’re going to abandon raids if it’s working as intended for them?

I already explained why they will abandon the raids, lack of players.

Man, raids are fails after less than a week? Wow what a terrible fate for the content Anet has been working hard to create for a long time, especially since they took the trouble to be so honest and tell everyone that they would be hard…

Sarcasm aside, if people spent as much time practicing the fights as they did complaining about them on the forums (I suspect a large number of people complaining about them have not even set foot inside one), then you might have gotten practiced enough to beat it by now

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

I already explained why they will abandon the raids, lack of players.

Ok then almighty Van Damme. Guess I should stop doing raids then since it’s a doom content apparently. kitten , and I had such a great time in there. To bad for me I guess.

That’s a shame, I quite enjoyed the raid so far. I’d hate to see it end up dead like dungeons and sab or no new content for over 2 years like fractals.

To each their own.

thewaterguy.4796:

Raids are not the only part of an expansion, far from it in fact, so I really don’t get how this is a problem…not to mention you can only claim rewards once per week so the fear that the rest of the game will lose its major elite players that used to kind of lead the way is irrelevant as well

Raids are the only instanced repeatable content of the expansion however, and everyone paid the same. I don’t see why they can’t have 2 difficulty settings, one without the timer so that people can practice and learn.

Sometimes what you have to do is really unclear as well, a bit more messages info from the game would help too. It’s stupid that you need to know everything by heart just to succeed. You shouldn’t test players by how they have written down all the game mechanics, but by their actual skills, reflexes and build synergy.

Sometimes it starts to feel like everything is time-gated and the difficulty is jacked up just because the expansion doesn’t have enough content to stand on it’s own.

The raids do seem rushed, the lack of dps meter, lfg, difficulty modes and other basic raid features found in other games points to that.

But even if they had these things a raid is always unclear before you actually get in and practice it, you WILL need to know everything by heart, easy/normal/extreme modes won’t change that. Don’t worry it doesn’t take TOO long.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

I already explained why they will abandon the raids, lack of players.

And I explained to you that ANet never expected to have raids run by a lot of players, but instead by a small, dedicated hardcore playerbase. You’re assuming that ANet wants tons of players in raids, which is not true.

As for Xillllix: Yes we paid the same and we all have access to the same content. That parts of this new content are more difficult doesn’t matter, instead of demanding it to be made easier you could just take the time and slowly improve over the matter of days/weeks with your guild, depending on how much time you guys have and are willing to spend on raids. That you have to figure mechanics out yourself is GREAT and it’s much better than a text popping up telling you do exactly this or that will happen. Games back then didn’t have that either and it was so much figuring it out. If that’s not for you, I’m genuinely sorry.

ANET are not going to allow significant dev time to be used on a small player base, that time is too valuable. Fractals have less of a barrier to entry than raids and in 4 days time it will be 2 years since fractals received a new map.

Quite simply they want raids to be a big success in player numbers, anything else is naive.

I also want raids to be a big success, outside of WvW I ain’t had as much fun as I’ve had fighting gorse. But it’s going to need a bit of extra features to get there: DPS METER, a functioning LFG system, easy/normal/extreme modes and of course, leaderboards!

dps meter……. no

Cmon, we have raids already. There’s nothing to fear from them they’re a useful tool.

1% of the game population is about 38 people after Fallout was released.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Those who say that Raid’s should be exclusive for only 1-2 % of the player population need to rethink.
if only 1%-2% of the players enter Raids how long do you think it will take for ANET to scrap all plans on new content for Raid’s?
Such a small percentage of the players don’t even pay for the cost of fixing bug’s in the existing Raid.
If such a BIG high reward part of the game is unplayable for the majority it will be hard to sell further extensions, and just do the math, 1-2% of existing players will not pay for the cost of development, not even close.

Except Anet knows this and went with it anyway. The next raids are done – probably all raids till legendary armor are done.

Good try though.

Because this games combat isn’t static like most mmos. So someones dps might fall off because there good not because they’re bad. Also the combat log only shows what damage you dealt, received, or your outgoing healing. So it wouldn’t be effective for telling you how others are doing.

I’m sure they can work around it, it’s worthwhile feature to have.

I’m well aware of the pace at which features are added I know I’ll probably be waiting over a year for it.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

GW1 when the Deep and Urgoz first opened, first couple of run’s took well over 12 hours with 12 players in well organized guild groups, a month later Pug’s did it in less than 4 hours.

I PUGed Urgoz in 24 minutes once. My HD crashed and I lost the screenie though.

PUGs are already clearing vale guardian, just a matter of time for the other 2.

just STOP your QQ right here on this post …. We do not want another faceroll content and gettting it done without effort ….. SO many spoiled “kids” in this game geezus, you want to have everything accesible right away right ? ….. Hell NO! if you are bad then you do not deserve reward from raid, if you really want that reward then freaking practice and you will get it….. Finally GW2 has some challenging content and there it is in 3 days from release someone is QQing cuz he cant down first boss, guess what you suck…. It is not “ultra hard” to down first boss, you just need practice …. leave raids as they are do NOT nerf them.

Tone it down blackari. Not saying you’re wrong, you’re not, but there’s a better way to say it.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Tone it down blackari. Not saying you’re wrong, you’re not, but there’s a better way to say it.

Saying it “raw” is the most “efficient” way to do it ….. it is just stupid that Those who are bad at the game are already complaining (only after 3 days!!!) and as we know Anet will (sadly) listen to these players and afterwards there will be again that “GW2 endgame is non existing cuz you only need to faceroll everywhere” ….. finally there is challenge but someone is not willing to put effort in it so he will just complain about how “bad” it is cause it is “too hard” which is total bullkitten ….

Only about 670 people watched the Raid guild chat, when it moved to PvP about 200+ left.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

Anything that has a low player population is either killed off or abandoned, ANET are very metrics focused developer which is a smart way to do things.

ANet hired raid devs with the intention to create a raid that is brutally difficult for most players and will stay a decent challenge even months in. They achieved exactly this. Why again do you think they’re going to abandon raids if it’s working as intended for them?

Maybe direct that question to the dungeon team they have… oops. These new hires will just be fired or assigned to different positions if (or when?) raids don’t pan out. Just because they put together a team to make a specific kind of content does not mean they are not guaranteed to produce that kind of content forever.

Like others said, Anet will judge raids by prolonged participation/interest, and stop making them if the cold, hard numbers are not in favor of raids.

No one will get fired because its what we want. Just because you don’t want it doesn’t mean ANET and the rest dont.

Why exactly are they exclusive to 1-2% of players ? How is it unplayable ? Is it because you expect to just be able to waltz in and 1 shot everything ?

You know the first encounter can be done in 8 minutes right ? So time can’t be the issue.

Ascended armor is definitely not needed, so that can’t be the issue.

I’m having a hard time seeing where this conclusion that only 1-2% of the community can participate came from. Are these factual numbers or just something you decided to throw out there because it suits your weak argument ? From the numbers I’m seeing LFG in map or in the LFG tool + the people outside the portal I’d lean more towards you being part of that 1-2%.

Stop whining and go play the Raids or don’t play them at all, accept that if you do you might actually have to figure out some mechanics.

And for the record anyone with an 80 and exotic gear that has half a clue how to build a character can participate. Your argument holds no water, you are literally whining because you’re not getting your way.

In short QQ

Those who says “raids are only a small part of the game” seem to be missing the time investment raids represent. If you play 30 hours a week and you spend 4 hours a night raiding (typical right now) then you can pretty much say that is the game.

Raids are new and people aren’t familiar yet. Once you can get people that know what to do, the vale guardian takes… ~10 mins including the trash mobs.

The time investment is only the initial bit, once people get used to raids it won’t be a 30 hour investment every week. Heck I haven’t even raided for 30 hours and downed first boss. NA only took 30 hours because they had to figure out all the mechanics by themselves.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Kagamiku.9731:

Raid’s aren’t the only part of the game. They’re a very small fraction of the game. I wouldn’t even say the rewards are that high when even the best groups with teamspeak take so many hours trying to beat each raid boss. And regardless how good you become at the raid, you can still only reap the rewards once a week. And that takes a great deal of time and dedication in the first place.

Yada Yada ………………, heard it all before in GW1 when the Deep and Urgoz first opened, first couple of run’s took well over 12 hours with 12 players in well organized guild groups, a month later Pug’s did it in less than 4 hours. All it takes is practice, wipe out after wipe out until you get it.
But the stupid notion that only a very small percentage of the players should be able to do Raid’s needs to stop.

Ehm… The reason that raids were made were for the 1-2% who craved a real challenge. If you tune them down, that challenge will be all but gone.

Raids have value BECAUSE they are challenging. If you dumb it down for the masses, they will turn into trash like dungeons.

Random.4691:

Why exactly are they exclusive to 1-2% of players ? How is it unplayable ? Is it because you expect to just be able to waltz in and 1 shot everything ?

You know the first encounter can be done in 8 minutes right ? So time can’t be the issue.

Ascended armor is definitely not needed, so that can’t be the issue.

I’m having a hard time seeing where this conclusion that only 1-2% of the community can participate came from. Are these factual numbers or just something you decided to throw out there because it suits your weak argument ? From the numbers I’m seeing LFG in map or in the LFG tool + the people outside the portal I’d lean more towards you being part of that 1-2%.

Stop whining and go play the Raids or don’t play them at all, accept that if you do you might actually have to figure out some mechanics.

And for the record anyone with an 80 and exotic gear that has half a clue how to build a character can participate. Your argument holds no water, you are literally whining because you’re not getting your way.

In short QQ

I’m not complaining about the Raid or how it works, I’m saying that those who try to make it out that only HARD CORE players should be able to participate need to change attitude.
Leave Raid’s as it is, but accept that a majority of the players will try to do Raid’s (and by trial and error eventually finish).

I’m complaining about the attitude of those who try and make Raid’s exclusive to a small % of the game population.

Cletus Van Damme is correct. If only a small number of people end up utilizing these raids then they will make changes. Whether it be nerfs, difficulty levels or treating it like every other stagnant feature in the game that is left to rot. They seemingly do not have the resources to work on content that is only lightly consumed.

I would beg the indulgence of anyone unironically using the word “hardcore” to check out the hardcore raiding scenes of any game that has promoted such a thing. The tent for raids always gets bigger. ALWAYS. Or it is not worth developing.

If you face a wall, you don’t slam your head into it hoping it will collapse. You stop and think how to overcome it. Then you do it. If you can’t, the wall is still there for you.

This is raiding.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Random.4691:

Why exactly are they exclusive to 1-2% of players ? How is it unplayable ? Is it because you expect to just be able to waltz in and 1 shot everything ?

You know the first encounter can be done in 8 minutes right ? So time can’t be the issue.

Ascended armor is definitely not needed, so that can’t be the issue.

I’m having a hard time seeing where this conclusion that only 1-2% of the community can participate came from. Are these factual numbers or just something you decided to throw out there because it suits your weak argument ? From the numbers I’m seeing LFG in map or in the LFG tool + the people outside the portal I’d lean more towards you being part of that 1-2%.

Stop whining and go play the Raids or don’t play them at all, accept that if you do you might actually have to figure out some mechanics.

And for the record anyone with an 80 and exotic gear that has half a clue how to build a character can participate. Your argument holds no water, you are literally whining because you’re not getting your way.

In short QQ

I’m not complaining about the Raid or how it works, I’m saying that those who try to make it out that only HARD CORE players should be able to participate need to change attitude.
Leave Raid’s as it is, but accept that a majority of the players will try to do Raid’s (and by trial and error eventually finish).

I’m complaining about the attitude of those who try and make Raid’s exclusive to a small % of the game population.

Um ok, why do you even care ? If you want to Raid then Raid. There is no point to this thread. There will always be people who don’t want PuG’s but there is enough PuG’s that it doesn’t matter.

A ton of people outside of the 1-2% are still enjoying them though. GW2 has given a lot, but it’s been a long time since there was a challenge presented.

Hell, if you want to get into stats, I’d bet an overwhelming majority of those who play this game don’t even participate in instanced content.

With PUG groups starting to clear the first boss, raids are already becoming more accessible. Not because they where magically made easier, but the information for the encounters is being made readily available.

Give it time, more groups will find success, and it will be more than 1 or 2% of the games population.

The only pug groups that are going to complete it are ones that consist of players who are willing to use voice coms, gear checks, and comp checks. Pug must know how to dodge and play their class. Still it will be hard because it only takes one person to make a mistake and wipe the whole party. Some mistakes are recoverable but the encounter with the Vale guardian at least is riddled with RNG, and you can wipe just because of RNG.

Warlord.9074:

The only pug groups that are going to complete it are ones that consist of players who are willing to use voice coms, gear checks, and comp checks. Pug must know how to dodge and play their class. Still it will be hard because it only takes one person to make a mistake and wipe the whole party. Some mistakes are recoverable but the encounter with the Vale guardian at least is riddled with RNG, and you can wipe just because of RNG.

What RNG is there in the encounter? Besides the teleport location being random if you happen to get hit.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Warlord.9074:

The only pug groups that are going to complete it are ones that consist of players who are willing to use voice coms, gear checks, and comp checks. Pug must know how to dodge and play their class. Still it will be hard because it only takes one person to make a mistake and wipe the whole party. Some mistakes are recoverable but the encounter with the Vale guardian at least is riddled with RNG, and you can wipe just because of RNG.

What RNG is there in the encounter? Besides the teleport location being random if you happen to get hit.

The only amount of RNG is the Position you are getting ported and the Position of the Lightning Strike, but this is something you can control by standing in one Corner of the Area. So while there is RNG in this Fight, it is so small you don’t recognize it as RNG.

The Majority, each carrying a different amount of skill, can overcome the wall given enough time and practice.

The only thing that holds you away from Raiding is what you want to do. If you are too intimidated to do the raid, that’s fine, you don’t have to go in there today, tomorrow or even the next few weeks. Everyone who goes into the raid and works on the Raid boss mechanics gets steadily better after each attempt, the playerbase as a whole gets better, progression gets smoother.

The raid’s difficulty will remain stagnant always (hopefully). How hard it really is, is determined by you. Welcome to Raiding majority, please enjoy.

Telemin.7380:

With PUG groups starting to clear the first boss, raids are already becoming more accessible. Not because they where magically made easier, but the information for the encounters is being made readily available.

Give it time, more groups will find success, and it will be more than 1 or 2% of the games population.

They did say they only expected a very small percentage of players to ever finish a raid.

That would be ok if there was enough content outside of raids for people to play, but there isn’t. That’s a big part of why everyone wants in on raids — even though it was explicitly stated that it was supposed to be for organized guild groups.

In any case it looks like they misjudged the difficulty and pugs will be speed running them pretty soon.

Walhalla.5473:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Warlord.9074:

The only pug groups that are going to complete it are ones that consist of players who are willing to use voice coms, gear checks, and comp checks. Pug must know how to dodge and play their class. Still it will be hard because it only takes one person to make a mistake and wipe the whole party. Some mistakes are recoverable but the encounter with the Vale guardian at least is riddled with RNG, and you can wipe just because of RNG.

What RNG is there in the encounter? Besides the teleport location being random if you happen to get hit.

The only amount of RNG is the Position you are getting ported and the Position of the Lightning Strike, but this is something you can control by standing in one Corner of the Area. So while there is RNG in this Fight, it is so small you don’t recognize it as RNG.

Exactly, which is why I’m wondering why he thinks there’s a lot of RNG in the encounter when most of it is a completely controlled environment, either by players or the game.