Guild Wars 2

fix bug 15 chars

Lendruil.9061:

I would not really consider revenant as too strong, imo its the most overrated class atm.

overrated because most people think rev AA = top dps. i laugh everytime when revs AA only and are like “yo im top dps”.

before anet touches revenant dps they should look into condi warrior, condi engi and tempest dps.

And I get sad every time I see a rev that insists on running Shiro/Glint when they’re in a party with a mesmer.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

And I get sad every time I see a rev that insists on running Shiro/Glint when they’re in a party with a mesmer.

if the mesmer isnt running perma quickness build then shiro makes sense.

Bartosz.2013:

I hope condi war will not be nerfed, i spent too much money on this

You should never be a game designer, then. You don’t seem to know about this thing called “balance.”

RubberDougie.2750:

Bartosz.2013:

I hope condi war will not be nerfed, i spent too much money on this

You should never be a game designer, then. You don’t seem to know about this thing called “balance.”

There will never be balance in this game, rotfl. (especially in PvE)

they would need a new bucket for all the tears from people that can only make the dps check of gorseval cause they stack burnzerkers

perry.9645:

they would need a new bucket for all the tears from people that can only make the dps check of gorseval cause they stack burnzerkers

My dream plz come true

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

And I get sad every time I see a rev that insists on running Shiro/Glint when they’re in a party with a mesmer.

I still take shiro sometimes over mallyx cuz Shiro has a little bit more use than that extra little bit of DPS (extra dodge, stun for elite). The DPS checks aren’t tight enough yet to bother to min max that hard. Obviously I still keep the nature facet up in Shiro.

Shiro has a cheap and reusable CC, a gap closing, an extra dodge meaning more mobility and a fairly offensive heal on top of a small quickness burst. It’s totally reasonable to bring Shiro when your raid group is a little shaky, allowing to cover a range of duties: CC, rezzing, green circle, etc.

Scootabuser.4915:

Actually, if you watch any of the kill videos involving burnzerkers, it doesn’t require a perfect environment to do the top dps in the game, it is easily done in a raid setting.

I want to see you doing top dps in the game with burnzerker while running the green circles.

- 2 PS Berserker is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 2 Revenant is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 1 Crono is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know, unless you want distortion for 10 people)
Some classes are better in some fights, Necro on sabetha, burnzerker on gorseval, i personally don’t like burnzerker on VG

→ BUT if these numbers are true(numbers thrown without the spreadsheet/source has no value), and you can really get this DPS in anyfight, burnzerker will be on meta for unbalanced DPS against other classes, and not for team utility, THAN you need a balance change.

Scootabuser.4915:

Dadnir.5038:

First, a build that focus on the potential of only 1 skill is bound to fall down at the first balance patch… Because that mean there is an imbalance if player exploit only 1 skill (Fiery rush/Icebow reminder). So I think that at the moment warrior should enjoy there luck but not keep their hope to high for their dominant build.

On second though, I think more or less that the issue is not the skill but the burn condition. At the moment burn do way to much damage for other condition to keep up. I think the current number would have been ok if burning skill weren’t spamable and burn stayed a low duration condition. Issue is that expertise has come and burn can be spam as much as bleed.

For me, just lowering the burn scaling coefficient should be enough to bring an illusion of balance.

That would nerf every class that uses burns, and make condi necro even stronger then it is now.

I really hope that you can explain me how lowering burning coefficients would make the necromancer stronger then it is now.

In PvE, while it’s easy to sustain some condi damage due to long duration bleed, the necromancer is far away from what a burnzerker dish out as average damage (even ele/tempest have the upper hand here). And to be honest, I ramp up faster in bleed damage and easily top my necro with a condi mesmer.

Which lead me to think thatthe necromancer have an hidden weapon. Maybe poison? but as a mesmer I had some nasty burn as well as the hatefull poison and confusion. Maybe chill? torment? No the necromancer is pretty balanced around average damage that end up equivalent to that of a mesmer but fall back pretty far away when it come to profession that use burn as the main source of damage.

Or maybe you think that nerfing burn coefficient damage will make epidemic stronger? You know that epidemic also you the condition of the necromancer’s allies right? So it also use the burn of the burn profession which make high burn damage a buff for the necromancer.

So maybe the issue you see take it’s root in PvP. In PvP, a necromancer will most likely let you taste your own condition which mean that’s it’s an indirect nerf to the necromancer if burn do less damage…

So please enlighten me on how nerfing the burn coefficient damage would make the necromancer stronger.

Dadnir.5038:

So please enlighten me on how nerfing the burn coefficient damage would make the necromancer stronger.

Lets say burn is nerfed in 99%, necro has if not the highest, one of the highest cond DPS without burning.

harold.3526:

Dadnir.5038:

So please enlighten me on how nerfing the burn coefficient damage would make the necromancer stronger.

Lets say burn is nerfed in 99%, necro has if not the highest, one of the highest cond DPS without burning.

But then condi will be out of the meta again.

Andraus.3874:

harold.3526:

Dadnir.5038:

So please enlighten me on how nerfing the burn coefficient damage would make the necromancer stronger.

Lets say burn is nerfed in 99%, necro has if not the highest, one of the highest cond DPS without burning.

But then condi will be out of the meta again.

it was a exaggerated example…

harold.3526:

Andraus.3874:

harold.3526:

Dadnir.5038:

So please enlighten me on how nerfing the burn coefficient damage would make the necromancer stronger.

Lets say burn is nerfed in 99%, necro has if not the highest, one of the highest cond DPS without burning.

But then condi will be out of the meta again.

it was a exaggerated example…

I know but It doesn’t matter. If you nerf burning overall so that burnzerker is balanced with a majority of DPS classes then all you are doing is nerfing engi out of the meta. This opens the door for condi necro but it’s DPS is still lackluster. Then engi will have no place in PvE.

Someone said condi-mesmer, I think I died a little inside.

Scootabuser.4915:

Someone said condi-mesmer, I think I died a little inside.

((comforts Scoot and gives beer)))

harold.3526:

Scootabuser.4915:

Actually, if you watch any of the kill videos involving burnzerkers, it doesn’t require a perfect environment to do the top dps in the game, it is easily done in a raid setting.

I want to see you doing top dps in the game with burnzerker while running the green circles.

- 2 PS Berserker is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 2 Revenant is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 1 Crono is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know, unless you want distortion for 10 people)
Some classes are better in some fights, Necro on sabetha, burnzerker on gorseval, i personally don’t like burnzerker on VG

-> BUT if these numbers are true(numbers thrown without the spreadsheet/source has no value), and you can really get this DPS in anyfight, burnzerker will be on meta for unbalanced DPS against other classes, and not for team utility, THAN you need a balance change.

It’s not a versatile build at all.

There are people crying because there so happens to be more than one playable build for warriors so they see 2 ps zerkers + 2 burnzerkers and go “ahhmagaaawwd so much warrior,” and think they’re super OP and meta then search for any misguided way to nerf them.

Just like the condi ranger, burnzerkers aren’t useful in most scenarios. “40% higher damage” is misleading information comparing burnzerker peak spike damage to average/below average for other builds.

As people have stated here, their own spreadsheets show themselves pulling 30k+ average with other builds that are much more versatile with mechanics.

Poop.4295:

harold.3526:

Scootabuser.4915:

Actually, if you watch any of the kill videos involving burnzerkers, it doesn’t require a perfect environment to do the top dps in the game, it is easily done in a raid setting.

I want to see you doing top dps in the game with burnzerker while running the green circles.

- 2 PS Berserker is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 2 Revenant is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 1 Crono is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know, unless you want distortion for 10 people)
Some classes are better in some fights, Necro on sabetha, burnzerker on gorseval, i personally don’t like burnzerker on VG

-> BUT if these numbers are true(numbers thrown without the spreadsheet/source has no value), and you can really get this DPS in anyfight, burnzerker will be on meta for unbalanced DPS against other classes, and not for team utility, THAN you need a balance change.

It’s not a versatile build at all.

There are people crying because there so happens to be more than one playable build for warriors so they see 2 ps zerkers + 2 burnzerkers and go “ahhmagaaawwd so much warrior,” and think they’re super OP and meta then search for any misguided way to nerf them.

Just like the condi ranger, burnzerkers aren’t useful in most scenarios. “40% higher damage” is misleading information comparing burnzerker peak spike damage to average/below average for other builds.

As people have stated here, their own spreadsheets show themselves pulling 30k+ average with other builds that are much more versatile with mechanics.

sorry, if there are other videos showing class stacking of other professions that can kill two raid bosses in 3 to 4 min, then you might have a point. But now you are just defending a profession that’s OP in a “challenge” content basically making bunch other classes and builds obsolete compare to this min/max raid build for warrior.

rchu.8945:

Poop.4295:

harold.3526:

Scootabuser.4915:

Actually, if you watch any of the kill videos involving burnzerkers, it doesn’t require a perfect environment to do the top dps in the game, it is easily done in a raid setting.

I want to see you doing top dps in the game with burnzerker while running the green circles.

- 2 PS Berserker is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 2 Revenant is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know)
- 1 Crono is in the meta for party buffing(not more as far as i know, unless you want distortion for 10 people)
Some classes are better in some fights, Necro on sabetha, burnzerker on gorseval, i personally don’t like burnzerker on VG

-> BUT if these numbers are true(numbers thrown without the spreadsheet/source has no value), and you can really get this DPS in anyfight, burnzerker will be on meta for unbalanced DPS against other classes, and not for team utility, THAN you need a balance change.

It’s not a versatile build at all.

There are people crying because there so happens to be more than one playable build for warriors so they see 2 ps zerkers + 2 burnzerkers and go “ahhmagaaawwd so much warrior,” and think they’re super OP and meta then search for any misguided way to nerf them.

Just like the condi ranger, burnzerkers aren’t useful in most scenarios. “40% higher damage” is misleading information comparing burnzerker peak spike damage to average/below average for other builds.

As people have stated here, their own spreadsheets show themselves pulling 30k+ average with other builds that are much more versatile with mechanics.

sorry, if there are other videos showing class stacking of other professions that can kill two raid bosses in 3 to 4 min, then you might have a point. But now you are just defending a profession that’s OP in a “challenge” content basically making bunch other classes and builds obsolete compare to this min/max raid build for warrior.

I agree…but if we’re going to talk balance based on bosses being killed in 3-4 min, then we also have to address how OP Chronomancer skills are at skipping certain boss mechanics. =P

Tho I agree with most points in this thread, burnzerker is a boss annihilator. It takes a while to build up its damage(around 10 seconds I’d say) before it reaches a power build’s damage. My glint/shiro reve is eating CoF elite packs alive, while my burnzerks takes thrice the time to kill those. Also, in any content where the mobs move a lot(chargers mostly) the dps is very hard to build. I understand that people complain that burnzerk is OP on raid bosses, but in truth it is just op on things that allow for sustained damage(so big health stuff and big health stuff that doesn’t move a lot).
Burnzerk is average in regular PvE and shines at Bosses. While it takes around 3 scorched fields to get to 7-8k burn ticks on HoT mobs, my reve does 8k on 0.75 seconds auto attacks like there’s no tomorrow.
So before calling for a nerf on burnzerk, consider that it is only OP in less than 1% of the content. Indeed, that 1% is “supposed” to be the hardest content in the game, but nerfing burnzerker would ruin it for the rest of the PvE. I’d say make scorched earth only hit once per target(so no more multiple squares). That’ll considerably lower the DPS in raids while keeping the dps in other forms of PvE the same.

Burnzerker is not the only build that can get above 30k dps on VG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdIfhuEe7o

Snowball.3497:

Burnzerker is not the only build that can get above 30k dps on VG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdIfhuEe7o

The new meter can be pretty unreliable. I’ve gotten over 60k dps on sabetha on condi war. I know there is a bit of cleave in the fight but I doubt the dps was that high.

This was just one of the screenshots I have from sabetha. http://puu.sh/maXLG/91338b712c.png

Ted The Warrior.8674:

The new meter can be pretty unreliable. I’ve gotten over 60k dps on sabetha on condi war.
This was just one of the screenshots I have from sabetha. http://puu.sh/maXLG/91338b712c.png

Check the video description, I double checked this to be sure of this debate.
The numbers are quite accurate, through manual computation excluding damage dealt to Seekers I got to 31.5k DPS on VG. (pastebin of numbers here; http://pastebin.com/Tkp5qK3L)

Ted The Warrior.8674:

Snowball.3497:

Burnzerker is not the only build that can get above 30k dps on VG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdIfhuEe7o

The new meter can be pretty unreliable. I’ve gotten over 60k dps on sabetha on condi war. I know there is a bit of cleave in the fight but I doubt the dps was that high.

This was just one of the screenshots I have from sabetha. http://puu.sh/maXLG/91338b712c.png

you didnt even reset the dps meter after the pulls.

Snowball.3497:

Ted The Warrior.8674:

The new meter can be pretty unreliable. I’ve gotten over 60k dps on sabetha on condi war.
This was just one of the screenshots I have from sabetha. http://puu.sh/maXLG/91338b712c.png

Check the video description, I double checked this to be sure of this debate.
The numbers are quite accurate, through manual computation excluding damage dealt to Seekers I got to 31.5k DPS on VG. (pastebin of numbers here; http://pastebin.com/Tkp5qK3L)

most of the time it double counts numbers or numbers get lost depending on how fast you attack or how many targets you hit, at least when i was testing it when playing revenant it wasnt accurate at all.

anyway this is proof that people dont need to cry about revenant AA lol.

Revenant will be meta even without its broken damage. Dont see why you are so against minor nerfs to bring equality among the other classes. Power creeping the classes to get equality is not going to happen and it shouldnt happen. So the classes that are too high on the damage table need to be brought down a notch especially if they already have indispensable other roles (this goes for all classes in this category, not just revenant). It doesnt make sense to give a class some of the best utility roles and the best damage at the same time. I dont understand why people dont get the logic of this concept.

Look at chronomancer. Its absolutely amazing for utility and unique buffs. But its damage is rather mediocre. Thats perfect balance wise. Its how it should be. The only classes that should be top dps are the ones which have very little utility and group buffing.

spoj.9672:

Revenant will be meta even without its broken damage.

the damage isnt broken when 3 other classes deal a good amount of dps more than revenant.

spoj.9672:

Dont see why you are so against minor nerfs to bring equality among the other classes.

im not against equality among classes. i am against dps nerfs to certain classes when other classes are far higher dps. on top of that it seems like you havent completely understood yet how revenant works and how the class design is different.

spoj.9672:

So the classes that are too high on the damage table need to be brought down a notch especially if they already have indispensable other roles (this goes for all classes in this category, not just revenant).

good, and anet should start with the 3 top dps classes first.

spoj.9672:

It doesnt make sense to give a class some of the best utility roles and the best damage at the same time. I dont understand why people dont get the logic of this concept.

in the case of revenant it isnt best utility and it isnt best damage. the only thing which is unqiue to revenant is the boon duration and you are not doing anything else except buffing fury anyway. but other classes could easily buff the fury.

spoj.9672:

Look at chronomancer. Its absolutely amazing for utility and unique buffs. But its damage is rather mediocre. Thats perfect balance wise. Its how it should be.
The only classes that should be top dps are the ones which have very little utility and group buffing.

“perfect” balance wise would mean all of the classes deal equal amount of dps on paper, have something unique and useful to offer and dps completely depends on player skill and situations in an encounter. and that has never been the case in gw2 and will probably never be unless anet starts to focus more on pve when designing classes and making balance decisions.

apart from that even if anet nerfs revenant dps, it wont change a single bit about necro, because some other classes will still be higher dps than necro and offer more useful utility at the same time.

Your just getting hung up on the fact that i brought up revenant auto dps first. Even though you know im correct in terms of ideal balance philosophies. Revenant is in the top with those others its just as much a target as the others for warranted damage shaves.

You should keep your bias out of these discussions. Saying “nerf these first before you nerf this” is just silly.

PS. One of the main reasons im so against rev auto is because its just that, a disproportionately high damage auto attack. There is no skill requirement for high dps on auto attacks. Obviously you have to do more to get max dps on rev. But if just auto attacking on rev can yield higher dps than full rotations on other classes then theres clearly a problem.

NoTrigger.8396:

—
most of the time it double counts numbers or numbers get lost depending on how fast you attack or how many targets you hit, at least when i was testing it when playing revenant it wasnt accurate at all.

anyway this is proof that people dont need to cry about revenant AA lol.

Are you are talking about the combat log based damage meter? IIRC it was updated a while ago to be more accurate.

spoj.9672:

Revenant will be meta even without its broken damage. Dont see why you are so against minor nerfs to bring equality among the other classes. Power creeping the classes to get equality is not going to happen and it shouldnt happen. So the classes that are too high on the damage table need to be brought down a notch especially if they already have indispensable other roles (this goes for all classes in this category, not just revenant). It doesnt make sense to give a class some of the best utility roles and the best damage at the same time. I dont understand why people dont get the logic of this concept.

Look at chronomancer. Its absolutely amazing for utility and unique buffs. But its damage is rather mediocre. Thats perfect balance wise. Its how it should be. The only classes that should be top dps are the ones which have very little utility and group buffing.

As pretty much Revenant main and player since first profession preview beta, I agree. I’m fine with nerf to AA coupled with maybe little damage increases to other skills.

I think people who yell that they would have to use other skills costing energy for max DPS forget that Revenant’s profession mechanic is energy management, not enabling 3 facets and watching netflix.

Upkeeping facets in combat forever should have never been the case and optimal thing. Sure, there are things that separate good PvE Revenant from bad one, but aside from some moments, upkeeping facets and AAing is what you are doing for majority of the time, regardless of encounter.

spoj.9672:

Your just getting hung up on the fact that i brought up revenant auto dps first.

nah, im just wondering why its so hard for you to look at the bigger picture.

spoj.9672:

Even though you know im correct in terms of ideal balance philosophies.

what i know is you believe you are correct.

spoj.9672:

Revenant is in the top with those others its just as much a target as the others for warranted damage shaves.

since when is a few 1000 dps difference to the next class “up there with those others” ?

spoj.9672:

You should keep your bias out of these discussions. Saying “nerf these first before you nerf this” is just silly.

and so is making claims based on not understanding the design of the class.
what you can do on rev is limited by energy and even more so by the fact that all of the weapon skills except AA and sword 2 suck. on other classes you throw in skills with higher coefficients for higher dps, on rev you mainly AA and use sword 2, so ofc the AA is strong.
thats why i said make the class more rotational and nerf the AA at the same time is the way to go. in order to do this sword 3 and axe 4 need buffs or reworks.
compared to at least 3 classes revenant dps is not even close to overpowered, so why did you even bring up revenant dps to begin with?

spoj.9672:

But if just auto attacking on rev can yield higher dps than full rotations on other classes then theres clearly a problem.

AA only dps is terrible and to repeat myself again, yes the class should be more rotational for its dps.

Wethospu.6437:

Are you are talking about the combat log based damage meter? IIRC it was updated a while ago to be more accurate.

yes. i didnt know it was updated. will check it out again. but some things still dont show up in the combat log so still wont be 100% accurate.

NoTrigger.8396:

spoj.9672:

But if just auto attacking on rev can yield higher dps than full rotations on other classes then theres clearly a problem.

AA only dps is terrible and to repeat myself again, yes the class should be more rotational for its dps.

Cant take you seriously when you say something like this. The auto attack alone does better dps than a full reaper rotation. And Reaper doesnt even have bad dps.

And what doesnt show up in the combat log? Conditions, life steal etc all show up.

AA only is indeed terrible dps. dont compare everything to reaper and look at the bigger picture dude.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Focused_Siphoning
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equilibrium

for example both traits dont show up in combat log along with a few other things.

Nerf Gravedigger, has more DPS than rev AA, and is easier rotation than revenant AA.

I don’t get why people want to nerf revenant, the only rly good thing about it is literally the boon duration. It’s DPS is not op since tempest is by far better as a power class. It’s fury uptime is only good in the non condi war party since they got it with FGJ anyways. There is rly nothing which makes revenant broken. If you rly talk about necro dps being worse and harder to pull of then just suggest a buff to necro.

Its not terrible dps. Thats some major hyperbole.

harold.3526:

Nerf Gravedigger, has more DPS than rev AA, and is easier rotation than revenant AA.

Rev auto and gravedigger do the same purely coefficient wise. Rev has more modifiers and rev auto is more reliable than gravedigger. And it can be used at all times. Gravedigger spam is only below 50% and is easily interrupted which causes major dps loss. But i sense you arent being serious. :P

Ive been suggesting buffs to necro for 3 years. Id continue to do so if i thought it would get anywhere. But history says otherwise. Besides that doesnt really solve the problem for anything other than necro. There would still be major class imbalances. I also dont think reaper dps is in a bad place objectively speaking. I feel its around the level that should be max dps. Shame the rest of the classes also got major power creeps as well.

And looking at the bigger picture. These nerfs would make the enrage timers tighter. Surely thats a good thing for those of us seeking challenge?

spoj.9672:

And looking at the bigger picture. These nerfs would make the enrage timers tighter. Surely thats a good thing for those of us seeking challenge?

its the first raid wing/raid content in gw2. that should tell you why the enrage timers are what they are.
if they were wildstar level enrage timers no one would have killed the second and third boss yet.

NoTrigger.8396:

AA only is indeed terrible dps.

15k dps with auto attacks

2/10 trolling made me reply

Raizen.7981:

NoTrigger.8396:

AA only is indeed terrible dps.

15k dps with auto attacks

2/10 trolling made me reply

i wouldnt rely on what people say/said in bad class guides if i were you and as soon as there arent any adds in the boss fight your dps will be lower than PS warrior dps. happy birthday.

NoTrigger.8396:

Raizen.7981:

NoTrigger.8396:

AA only is indeed terrible dps.

15k dps with auto attacks

2/10 trolling made me reply

i wouldnt rely on what people say/said in bad class guides if i were you and as soon as there arent any adds in the boss fight your dps will be lower than PS warrior dps. happy birthday.

I would rely on my raiding experience as a revenant and call its 7k auto attacks(every ~0.66 seconds) and 9k(when target is under) 50% OP. Pop an Elemental blast when it’s off CD and I do a solid 16-17k dps. If I wanna do that “ultra hard energy management rotation” which relies on using 1 extra skill by the way, I bring strong team support(50% boon duration on chrono alacrity/quickness is incredible strong) and strong DPS. Not saying reve is OP, just saying a class should either be a strong DPS or a strong supporter, not both. Reve auto needs a a little tune-down to bring that sort of balance, and that balance would be achieved by nerfing sword auto by a lot, and increasing sword2/axe4/axe5 so it becomes a real “energy management” class, because the energy management now is a bad joke. If anyone finds hard doing a kittenton of DPS while keeping all asigned boons up, well sorry, they’re suffering for massive l2p issues

Raizen.7981:

I would rely on my raiding experience as a revenant and call its 7k auto attacks(every ~0.66 seconds) and 9k(when target is under) 50% OP.

i hope you are not being serious here.

Raizen.7981:

Pop an Elemental blast when it’s off CD and I do a solid 16-17k dps.

and a ps warrior can achieve more than 16-17k.

Raizen.7981:

Not saying reve is OP, just saying a class should either be a strong DPS or a strong supporter, not both.

it isnt both. the only thing you have to bring is 50% boon duration. everything else can be covered by other classes and if you keep all of your facets up your dps will be trash tier. so the balance between good dps and strong support is already there and you cant do both at the same time.

Raizen.7981:

increasing sword2/axe4/axe5 so it becomes a real “energy management” class, because the energy management now is a bad joke. If anyone finds hard doing a kittenton of DPS while keeping all asigned boons up, well sorry, they’re suffering for massive l2p issues

sword 2 hits 2-3 times inside boss hitbox when surrounded by adds, it doesnt need a buff. axe 5 is cc and wont be buffed anyway and wouldnt even make sense because most of the time you wouldnt use it even if its off cooldown.

and ye the energy management is a bad joke if you go the easy route. there are 3 or 4 different lists of priorities for raid boss fights and each of them requires different energy management. just because people are still running out of energy in every legend and think set rotations are the way to go it doesnt mean its the best way to play revenant (or other classes).

Who cares about how much DPS a burnzerker can dish out when a Mesmer is capable of 100% party wide quickness (with boon duration from rev) uptime and a hell of a lot of alacrity to boot. Because team comps will consist of PS warriors for the perma might (and with them, banners), burnzerkers don’t bring any utility to the raid but their own damage. What’s more important, the party-wide might a PS warrior brings or the high DPS a burnzerker brings? Burnzerkers are only really good to have after you already have the classes that bring actual utility to the raid.

Mesmers are more OP than anything a warrior brings to a raid. Hell, they can even completely ignore the green circles of vale guardian by using party wide distortion. Beating any of the raid bosses without a burnzerker is not hard and is still easy to hit the DPS check despite them being very good against Gorseval due to the large hitbox. Even so, doing raids without a mesmer? The drop in damage is massive…

And every time my raid group struggled with one of the raid bosses, one of us swaps to a mesmer (or two of us, even better!) and the bosses drop with plenty of time to spare. They even have a crucial role beyond their party buffs in every single raid boss. Vale guard they have party wide distortion, temporal curtain to pull mobs during Gorseval, and ports for quick access to the platforms you target with the bombs. Individual DPS is not the most important thing, and mesmer is a testament to that.

NoTrigger your standards for trash tier dps are seriously warped.

spoj.9672:

NoTrigger.8396:

spoj.9672:

Scorched earth needs toning down to balance the condi classes. I dont see how its even a topic up for debate.

Also revenant sword auto needs nerfing. It has the same coefficient per second as gravedigger spam. While also having way more damage modifiers in traits and so much group buffing. How that came to be, i have no idea… Reminds me of old school warrior.

rev auto isnt what makes revenant dps strong and if they nerf it they will have to rework the class entirely.

Well it clearly is a big factor since it has the same coefficient per second as gravedigger and the class has way more damage modifiers….

And i dont see how they would need to rework it. Just tone the numbers down slightly. And reduce the damage modifiers from 7% to 5%. If its brought down to 1.3 per second instead of 1.5 then its still very strong but not brokenly strong on a buffer class.

Every class (except necro/thief) is supposed to be a buffer class. Revs/heralds aren’t putting out more buffs than say a warr/ele/mes/guard/engi. That being the case, that shouldn’t factor into a nerf being warranted.

Thief really needs a buff that applies to party each time they steal. Like, each successful steal gives a 2% damage buff(condi/power) that lasts 2mins, applies to 5 nearby players at the location of the target.

NoTrigger.8396:

spoj.9672:

Revenant will be meta even without its broken damage.

the damage isnt broken when 3 other classes deal a good amount of dps more than revenant.

spoj.9672:

Dont see why you are so against minor nerfs to bring equality among the other classes.

im not against equality among classes. i am against dps nerfs to certain classes when other classes are far higher dps. on top of that it seems like you havent completely understood yet how revenant works and how the class design is different.

spoj.9672:

So the classes that are too high on the damage table need to be brought down a notch especially if they already have indispensable other roles (this goes for all classes in this category, not just revenant).

good, and anet should start with the 3 top dps classes first.

spoj.9672:

It doesnt make sense to give a class some of the best utility roles and the best damage at the same time. I dont understand why people dont get the logic of this concept.

in the case of revenant it isnt best utility and it isnt best damage. the only thing which is unqiue to revenant is the boon duration and you are not doing anything else except buffing fury anyway. but other classes could easily buff the fury.

spoj.9672:

Look at chronomancer. Its absolutely amazing for utility and unique buffs. But its damage is rather mediocre. Thats perfect balance wise. Its how it should be.
The only classes that should be top dps are the ones which have very little utility and group buffing.

“perfect” balance wise would mean all of the classes deal equal amount of dps on paper, have something unique and useful to offer and dps completely depends on player skill and situations in an encounter. and that has never been the case in gw2 and will probably never be unless anet starts to focus more on pve when designing classes and making balance decisions.

apart from that even if anet nerfs revenant dps, it wont change a single bit about necro, because some other classes will still be higher dps than necro and offer more useful utility at the same time.

Pretty sure you nailed it with that last paragraph. This argument is probably about necro/reaper being sub par in PvE instanced content. This argument between you two seems to be a balance philosophy issue by ANET in instanced PvE that ends up being a moot point…because ANET is clearly designing necros/reapers for PvP/WvW instead and refuses to split the balance. I think Revs are just at the top of his hit list because they are new/shiny and their design encroached into necro/reaper territory regarding theme/utility.

spoj.9672:

Its not terrible dps. Thats some major hyperbole.

harold.3526:

Nerf Gravedigger, has more DPS than rev AA, and is easier rotation than revenant AA.

Rev auto and gravedigger do the same purely coefficient wise. Rev has more modifiers and rev auto is more reliable than gravedigger. And it can be used at all times. Gravedigger spam is only below 50% and is easily interrupted which causes major dps loss. But i sense you arent being serious. :P

Ive been suggesting buffs to necro for 3 years. Id continue to do so if i thought it would get anywhere. But history says otherwise. Besides that doesnt really solve the problem for anything other than necro. There would still be major class imbalances. I also dont think reaper dps is in a bad place objectively speaking. I feel its around the level that should be max dps. Shame the rest of the classes also got major power creeps as well.

And looking at the bigger picture. These nerfs would make the enrage timers tighter. Surely thats a good thing for those of us seeking challenge?

I’m kind of shocked you just came out with it like this. You’re clearly saying that you have accepted, after 3 years of lobbying, that ANET is not going to balance necros/reapers for instanced PvE…at least not equal to other classes in instanced PvE. You also seem to be saying that you would like all other classes to be brought down to the instanced PvE levels of necro/reapers as a direct result of ANET being unwilling to change their balance stance on necros/reapers. I was right there with you on the lobbying for ANET to finally balance necros/reapers for PvE. I had high hopes that reaper would be the opportunity for them to do this, but they let me down on that too. I can’t, in good conscience though, lobby for everyone else to get nerfed just because of ANET’s decision on necros/reapers though. I can’t base the design/balance of other classes on any necro/reaper skill…including gravedigger. That would be selfish of me to expect that. I leveled my reaper, geared my reaper, and shelved my reaper…and moved on to other classes that ANET has designed properly for PvE.

SlyDevil.3952:

Thief really needs a buff that applies to party each time they steal. Like, each successful steal gives a 2% damage buff(condi/power) that lasts 2mins, applies to 5 nearby players at the location of the target.

That would be huge! I can’t help myself but to have negative thoughts when a thief/daredevil joins an instanced PvE group. I immediately think about the opportunity cost of not having a class that provides some useful team wide buff instead. 100% support adding something like this to thief/daredevil.

Yeah see i dont usually advocate nerfs. Because i think a bit of powercreep is good for the game. But lets be honest its a bit much right now. And the powercreep is stacked onto the classes/places which were already strong. Theres only two solutions. Nerf the outliers or buff the rest. Since we already have a lot of powercreep nerfing seems like the only viable option.

Im not lobbying for everyone else to get nerfed. Im lobbying for the clearly over the top factors to get toned down. Id say the same thing for reaper if there was anything that was broken on it but anet have always been very careful with necro (see cast times and cooldowns on reaper compared to revenant). So far the only broken thing on necro is a gimmicky niche usage of epidemic and jagged horrors on Sabetha.

And just to go on record. I would be perfectly fine with revenant achieving as much dps as it does if it had a much greater skill requirement to pull off. Its baffling that people think an auto attack that strong is balanced.