Raids aren't working better than dungeons

Raids aren't working better than dungeons

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

Simply a fact, I’ve been raiding since it came out (and occasionally took breaks between weeks), I’m not having as much fun as in dungeons, I’m sure that the raid team could do wonder if they were moved to dungeons instead of raids, that would solve a lot of issues including the lack of armor skins outside the gem store.

People are running the raid once a week, while dungeons reset every day, that would make people more invested into the game. That’s why I hope the next expansion will mark the return of dungeons.

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Posted by: Coconut.7082

Coconut.7082

Okay, cool, thanks for your opinion.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

Yes they are, just because you dont like it doesnt mean it is not working, like dungeons go to fractals, its the same thing. Raids are the best content in GW2 by far.

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Posted by: Jahroots.6791

Jahroots.6791

Ah, raids. The most divisive content in the entire game.

Dungeons aren’t likely to make a comeback. The dev team considers raids an absolute success, and the intended audience absolutely loves ’em.

What is it about raids that you find less fun?

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

Ah, raids. The most divisive content in the entire game.

Dungeons aren’t likely to make a comeback. The dev team considers raids an absolute success, and the intended audience absolutely loves ’em.

What is it about raids that you find less fun?

Because of the exclusion, elitism in EU servers and the fact that people refuse to play anything else than the “meta” for once, the general behaviour of raiders is terrible.

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Posted by: Malediktus.3740

Malediktus.3740

Make your own raid squad if you do not want to play with meta builds
Meta builds arent exclusive to raids, if you play bad builds in dungeons / fractals you will likely get kicked, too.

One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

“It’s a fact.” “Why?” “Because I don’t like it.”
nice/10

I agree there should be more incentive for rerunning raids during the week, though. Sure, it’s fun, but everyone likes rewards.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

Because of the exclusion, elitism in EU servers and the fact that people refuse to play anything else than the “meta” for once, the general behaviour of raiders is terrible.

You know that dungeons when they are hard players behave the same way right? The only reason people nowadays dont care what you bring to dungeons because they are faceroll boring content, when they were not it was a lot more strict than raids as only 5 people open less oportunity for all classes to join. It just show that you dont know what you are talking about. Raids dont force meta , players do, and in a 5 player content you would see a way worse meta (basically PS, Ele, Chrono ).
And as people are already tired of saying “If you want to play any build make your kitten group with your rules, stop trying to enforce your rules on other people group”

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

Hyperreliance on the meta hurts the game for some (me included). It limits creativity and makes it more a game of clones (copy-paste builds) than the pseudo-uniqueness we used to have.

It also develops barriers in the community where they really didn’t exist before. By designing a segment of the PVE end game (complete with story) for a small subsection of the playerbase, they risk alienating a lot of players, which – and you can debate his if you like – they are definitely doing (the OPs post is just one example).

The biggest concern is what happens next. If raids – as they are currently designed – are released on a semi-regular schedule, then they risk having them become the perceived end game in GW2. That is bad because of the limited appeal of raids in their current format.

Locking people out of that content (even perceptually) will result in disillusioned players who feel like the game is no longer really designed for them.

The answer – that many don’t want to accept – is to incorporate tiered difficulty across multiple game modes. Expand raids to include a wider base of player (no matter what raids were originally intended to do) and look at expanding things like story steps, fractals, etc to include much more difficulty content (alongside what we have now).

Would this take extra developer resources? Of course. Would it be worth the time? I really think it would.

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Posted by: Coconut.7082

Coconut.7082

Ah, raids. The most divisive content in the entire game.

Dungeons aren’t likely to make a comeback. The dev team considers raids an absolute success, and the intended audience absolutely loves ’em.

What is it about raids that you find less fun?

Because of the exclusion, elitism in EU servers and the fact that people refuse to play anything else than the “meta” for once, the general behaviour of raiders is terrible.

Oh, another “all raiders are mean and elitist” post, how original.

I thought you were done with the game: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Is-it-to-late-to-raid/first#post6213663

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Posted by: Absurdo.8309

Absurdo.8309

Hyperreliance on the meta hurts the game for some (me included). It limits creativity and makes it more a game of clones (copy-paste builds) than the pseudo-uniqueness we used to have.

It also develops barriers in the community where they really didn’t exist before. By designing a segment of the PVE end game (complete with story) for a small subsection of the playerbase, they risk alienating a lot of players, which – and you can debate his if you like – they are definitely doing (the OPs post is just one example).

The biggest concern is what happens next. If raids – as they are currently designed – are released on a semi-regular schedule, then they risk having them become the perceived end game in GW2. That is bad because of the limited appeal of raids in their current format.

Locking people out of that content (even perceptually) will result in disillusioned players who feel like the game is no longer really designed for them.

The answer – that many don’t want to accept – is to incorporate tiered difficulty across multiple game modes. Expand raids to include a wider base of player (no matter what raids were originally intended to do) and look at expanding things like story steps, fractals, etc to include much more difficulty content (alongside what we have now).

Would this take extra developer resources? Of course. Would it be worth the time? I really think it would.

TL;DR Feels > Reals?

It looks like your recent arguments have shifted towards bashing “the meta.”

The meta builds are, by definition, the best builds suited for the content. Of course players will want other players to play them. It increases your chances of success. Just like players want team mates to play meta builds in pvp. It increases your chances of winning.

This is doubly true for newer players. Since they don’t know their class or the mechanics of the fight as well, the meta build can act as a crutch.

Once players know the fight, they can vary from the meta build based on preference. Necros choose death or blood magic (or both). Revenants choose their off legend, or go condi. Eles choose between staff and fresh air. Guardians choose their weapon set. Or the dozens of other minor trait variations.

Plus, you (and the OP’s) statements are demonstrably false. You don’t need meta builds to beat raids. But, again, pugs prefer them because they are, by definition, the best. They don’t owe your special snowflake build anything.

And there’s other new endgame content. New fractals. New maps. New open world events. You can bring your snowflake builds here and press one. Sometimes I like to do that too. But not for all content.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Because of the exclusion, elitism in EU servers and the fact that people refuse to play anything else than the “meta” for once, the general behaviour of raiders is terrible.

Well Amineo, another bad experience with a group?

May I remind you of the “exp Sloth” run you joined when I have also been in this group? Coconut already posted the thread some posts above.
The comander was polite, explained very long how the run should work and lead very excellent.
You were the one on TS with a muted mic. That was no problem – at the beginning.
You didn’t know how to put down the poison. That was no problem since it was explained on TS again.
You didn’t know how to pull Sloth through the area. That was no problem since it was explained on TS again.
You were the one not running the required/proper utility skills that are needed for a Sloth kill. That was no problem since the group demanded you to change some skills.

The problem was: You refused to communicate, you didn’t even write: “Ok.” or “Understood”, “Right, let’s go.”
You remained silent when the questions were directed at you via TS and squad chat.

Tell me, what possibilties are available for a group to reach you and to communicate with you so that the group can be successful with you?

I don’t have to mention that this run was successful after you have been replaced. Ten people were happy and they were 9 that weren’t before because one guy was toxic in his social behaviour.

One thing to meta:
People still play “meta” in dungeons or fractals, just have a look at the lfg because it is the fastest way. Ofc you can run both with non-meta builds and succeed although you are way slower than needed. This is not working in raids because they were designed as a special 10 men group content. Due to this reason they are far more restrictive.
I give you the advice: Stop pugging them and join a raid guild. You can run special builds there if your group is fine with that, additionally you won’t be kicked or see toxic behaviour although I haven’t seen such that many in my pug r runs and I pug weekly.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

(edited by Vinceman.4572)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Simply a fact, I’ve been raiding since it came out (and occasionally took breaks between weeks), I’m not having as much fun as in dungeons, I’m sure that the raid team could do wonder if they were moved to dungeons instead of raids, that would solve a lot of issues including the lack of armor skins outside the gem store.

People are running the raid once a week, while dungeons reset every day, that would make people more invested into the game. That’s why I hope the next expansion will mark the return of dungeons.

The fact is that you’re not having as much fun raiding as you did dungeoning. But raids are wildly successful among their target audience, which includes more than just you. Of course there’s room to improve, but in the meantime, raids have offered a new kind of challenging content to the game, enjoyed by many … and that’s what they were designed to do.

Full disclosure: I haven’t completed a single raid wing.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Because of the exclusion, elitism in EU servers and the fact that people refuse to play anything else than the “meta” for once, the general behaviour of raiders is terrible.

Well Amineo, another bad experience with a group?

May I remind you of the “exp Sloth” run you joined when I have also been in this group?

I don’t have to mention that this run was successful after you have been replaced. Ten people were happy and they were 9 that weren’t before because one guy was toxic in his social behaviour.

Thanks for the background makes this thread much easier to digest and ignore.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Well Amineo, another bad experience with a group?

May I remind you of the “exp Sloth” run you joined when I have also been in this group? Coconut already posted the thread some posts above.
The comander was polite, explained very long how the run should work and lead very excellent.
You were the one on TS with a muted mic. That was no problem – at the beginning.
You didn’t know how to put down the poison. That was no problem since it was explained on TS again.
You didn’t know how to pull Sloth through the area. That was no problem since it was explained on TS again.
You were the one not running the required/proper utility skills that are needed for a Sloth kill. That was no problem since the group demanded you to change some skills.

The problem was: You refused to communicate, you didn’t even write: “Ok.” or “Understood”, “Right, let’s go.”
You remained silent when the questions were directed at you via TS and squad chat.

Wow, you guys are impressively patient. I don’t mind a silent pug in our group…as long as the silent pug knows what they’re doing. If someone is inexperienced and needs to be taught mechanics, I expect communciation to be going both ways. If I don’t get that, they’re kicked immediately.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Raids were never meant to replace Dungeons, Fractals were. Raids are their own end-game PvE content with their own design philosophies. Fractals are being actively developed as the end-game 5-man PvE content. It doesn’t surprise me at all that someone like the OP who might like smaller scale PvE wouldn’t like 10-man raids.

[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

New fractals you say looks around I see one new fractal, no fractals

It’s true they aren’t new, but they’ve done some major reworks to other fractals that make them feel quite new. Snowblind and Swamp are essentially entirely new fractals with the amount of changes.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

A lot of people would rather attack and belittle anyone who dares to criticize raids than admit there is an actual issue here.

That is a common debate topic where the goal is to shut down the conversation rather than directly address the topic raised. It is typically a sign of a weak position and desperation more than anything.

To people like the OP, I say don’t let people frighten you away from expressing your opinion.

It doesn’t matter what raids were originally designed for. It doesn’t matter if a small group of people consider them successful. What matters is the impact they are having on the overall endgame, their impact on the morale of the playerbase and making sure EVERYONE’s opinion is heard.

If people have issue with the current state of raids, then they should make those issues known. If people disagree with those issues, they should debate those issues directly. Making it personal about the poster – no matter what the situation – is just a bad debate tactic.

As an example of good feedback, see Rising Dusk’s post above. While I disagree with what he is saying (I don’t care what they were meant to do – I think what is important is the real impact on players in the game), he did something almost no other person did in this thread. He kept it about the topic and debated the points rather than attacking the person.

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Posted by: Absurdo.8309

Absurdo.8309

A lot of people would rather attack and belittle anyone who dares to criticize raids than admit there is an actual issue here.

That is a common debate topic where the goal is to shut down the conversation rather than directly address the topic raised. It is typically a sign of a weak position and desperation more than anything.

To people like the OP, I say don’t let people frighten you away from expressing your opinion.

It doesn’t matter what raids were originally designed for. It doesn’t matter if a small group of people consider them successful. What matters is the impact they are having on the overall endgame, their impact on the morale of the playerbase and making sure EVERYONE’s opinion is heard.

If people have issue with the current state of raids, then they should make those issues known. If people disagree with those issues, they should debate those issues directly. Making it personal about the poster – no matter what the situation – is just a bad debate tactic.

As an example of good feedback, see Rising Dusk’s post above. While I disagree with what he is saying (I don’t care what they were meant to do – I think what is important is the real impact on players in the game), he did something almost no other person did in this thread. He kept it about the topic and debated the points rather than attacking the person.

The OP’s posts contain no substance. There’s almost nothing to talk about.

First he says he likes dungeons better than raids but doesn’t explain why.

When prompted, he makes vague allegations about elitism and the meta. Neither of these points are fleshed out.

There’s some surface discussion about the meta by the anti-raiders, but it’s still just vague allegations that the meta is destroying the game.

Then some raiders come along to dispute the OP’s claims on elitism. From their description, he was hard to play with.

I think OP’s topic was covered. I actually think your talk about “discussion” is just a mask for the weak arguments on OP’s side.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

A lot of people would rather attack and belittle anyone who dares to criticize raids than admit there is an actual issue here.

That is a common debate topic where the goal is to shut down the conversation rather than directly address the topic raised. It is typically a sign of a weak position and desperation more than anything.

To people like the OP, I say don’t let people frighten you away from expressing your opinion.

It doesn’t matter what raids were originally designed for. It doesn’t matter if a small group of people consider them successful. What matters is the impact they are having on the overall endgame, their impact on the morale of the playerbase and making sure EVERYONE’s opinion is heard.

If people have issue with the current state of raids, then they should make those issues known. If people disagree with those issues, they should debate those issues directly. Making it personal about the poster – no matter what the situation – is just a bad debate tactic.

As an example of good feedback, see Rising Dusk’s post above. While I disagree with what he is saying (I don’t care what they were meant to do – I think what is important is the real impact on players in the game), he did something almost no other person did in this thread. He kept it about the topic and debated the points rather than attacking the person.

Its the opposite, you rise issue that dont exists, and when people ask for proof ( for example proof that VG cant be done without meta ) you get defensive, because you and everybody else know that its a lie, its that simple.

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Posted by: savacli.8172

savacli.8172

Its the opposite, you rise issue that dont exists, and when people ask for proof ( for example proof that VG cant be done without meta ) you get defensive, because you and everybody else know that its a lie, its that simple.

Some of the most notable feats are the 5 man VG kills along with 10 Guard VG kills. Sure, those kills were done by the hardcore guilds, but that does show just how anti-meta you can be and still have a pretty good chance at success.

Sure, teams will push for the meta because it’s easy to follow and increases their chances of success. But at the end of the day I’d much rather a full team of players in green gear who know the mechnics and their build vs a team of asc players who don’t know how the mechanics work and can’t pulled of their rotations to an acceptable degree.

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Posted by: curtegg.5216

curtegg.5216

Anet would benefit employing two obvious solutions. One wonders why they don’t do it.

1) Make all dungeons, raids, and world bosses have two modes. Regular like now (except remove time gates from raids) and hardcore mode (preserve time-gate in raids), and
2) Implement tiered loot based upon 2 factors. Numbers participating and performance. If you solo a dungeon you get 5x the loot as a player who does the same dungeon with a full party. Do a world boss with fewer players or down him faster than the average (like get Tequatl to battery phase at 10 minutes left on the timer) the participating players get better loot. The end result is better loot for the good players while letting casuals participate in all aspects of the game.

Elitists get the goods and casuals get to participate in all aspects of the game. It’s a win-win!

Anet wise-up!

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Anet would benefit employing two obvious solutions. One wonders why they don’t do it.

1) Make all dungeons, raids, and world bosses have two modes. Regular like now (except remove time gates from raids) and hardcore mode (preserve time-gate in raids), and
2) Implement tiered loot based upon 2 factors. Numbers participating and performance. If you solo a dungeon you get 5x the loot as a player who does the same dungeon with a full party. Do a world boss with fewer players or down him faster than the average (like get Tequatl to battery phase at 10 minutes left on the timer) the participating players get better loot. The end result is better loot for the good players while letting casuals participate in all aspects of the game.

Elitists get the goods and casuals get to participate in all aspects of the game. It’s a win-win!

Anet wise-up!

1) No clue how true it is here, but I know when talking about a similar thing with a dev in another game he said that even making a strait copy of an existing piece of content is the majority of the work for making something new (as far as a developer was concerned, so not factoring in new art or code). So if that’s at all true here, it’d make sense as to why they haven’t done it (why do all that work for a copy if a little more will get something new?)

2) Kick at the end of a dungeon/whatever to get extra loot… it would absolutely happen. In Open world you’d have people demanding specific builds and calling people out for making mistakes… and just generally people get salty when others determine their rewards. So your last sentence… ehh, casuals get to participate, but while being verbally abused by the elitists as far as open world goes. And, we’d surely see “meta” popping up in fractal LFGs again (only seen it a couple times now since I got back a little over a month ago).

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Posted by: Lendruil.9061

Lendruil.9061

Even though I think that raids are the absolutely best content that ever got added to the game, I’d like to see some kind of new hard content for 5man parties because it’s just much easier to organize a 5man party than a 10man party.
No matter how many new fractals they add, fractals will always be done in about half an hour unless they completely change the number of dailies one can complete.

Skuldin - No Hesitation [hT]

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

A lot of people would rather attack and belittle anyone who dares to criticize raids than admit there is an actual issue here.

That is a common debate topic where the goal is to shut down the conversation rather than directly address the topic raised. It is typically a sign of a weak position and desperation more than anything.

To people like the OP, I say don’t let people frighten you away from expressing your opinion.

It doesn’t matter what raids were originally designed for. It doesn’t matter if a small group of people consider them successful. What matters is the impact they are having on the overall endgame, their impact on the morale of the playerbase and making sure EVERYONE’s opinion is heard.

If people have issue with the current state of raids, then they should make those issues known. If people disagree with those issues, they should debate those issues directly. Making it personal about the poster – no matter what the situation – is just a bad debate tactic.

As an example of good feedback, see Rising Dusk’s post above. While I disagree with what he is saying (I don’t care what they were meant to do – I think what is important is the real impact on players in the game), he did something almost no other person did in this thread. He kept it about the topic and debated the points rather than attacking the person.

That’s pretty much the “hardcore” PvE forumers in a nutshell, they point out old stuff and get along with it just because they don’t like it, it’s like people in general who dislike a particular person for whatever reasons and would try their hardest to not let him do stuff he wants or enjoy.

As for Vince, I’m not gonna bother but you should stop spreading false accusations, the only thing in which I screwed up badly was the reflect (which is a bad strategy btw, 2 reflects and more healing/support is better), seeing that you worship the CM so hard means you might be on his guild, maybe I’m wrong but I don’t care, grow up and make sandwiches.

(edited by Amineo.8951)

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Posted by: Absurdo.8309

Absurdo.8309

Anet would benefit employing two obvious solutions. One wonders why they don’t do it.

1) Make all dungeons, raids, and world bosses have two modes. Regular like now (except remove time gates from raids) and hardcore mode (preserve time-gate in raids), and
2) Implement tiered loot based upon 2 factors. Numbers participating and performance. If you solo a dungeon you get 5x the loot as a player who does the same dungeon with a full party. Do a world boss with fewer players or down him faster than the average (like get Tequatl to battery phase at 10 minutes left on the timer) the participating players get better loot. The end result is better loot for the good players while letting casuals participate in all aspects of the game.

Elitists get the goods and casuals get to participate in all aspects of the game. It’s a win-win!

Anet wise-up!

These are not the win-wins you exclaim them to be.

1. Timers are rarely the problem for groups who can’t beat raids. It’s almost always the mechanics.

Groups wipe on VG because of green or blue circles. On sabetha because the miss throws or his the flame wall. On sloth because they don’t manage poison. Etc. The only fight with a dps race is gorseval, but I think that’s ok.

2. This is a terrible idea for two reasons.

First, it discourages players from welcoming new people to content. Map chat: no one else come to tequtal! Raids: we can beat this with 8 people, don’t want you. Dungeons: we can duo this, don’t want you. You shouldn’t be upset when more people want to join your event.

Second, a time limit tied to rewards narrows acceptable builds in raids. Want to bring an engie? Too bad, other classes do the job better. Want to bring a guardian? Too bad. 4 eles, 2 druids, 2 ps, 1 mesmer, 1 Rev only. I’d rather let groups decide their own composition in beating raids. Right now, you can. Tiered rewards? No thank you.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Hyperreliance on the meta hurts the game for some (me included). It limits creativity and makes it more a game of clones (copy-paste builds) than the pseudo-uniqueness we used to have.

Complaints about meta demands are driven by players who want to play different builds, and who feel the game should force other players who want meta builds to accept them. There are ways for developers to do this, but they would involve removing freedom of choice for the convenience of players who want to play as they want while denying others the opportunity to play as they want.

It also develops barriers in the community where they really didn’t exist before. By designing a segment of the PVE end game (complete with story) for a small subsection of the playerbase, they risk alienating a lot of players, which – and you can debate his if you like – they are definitely doing (the OPs post is just one example).

There were exclusion complaints about dungeons prior to raids replacing them as the hardest instanced content. In fact, there were more complaints about exclusion in dungeons because raids allow the fairly significant number of players who lacked the opportunity (in dungeons) to tank or heal can do so in raids.

The biggest concern is what happens next. If raids – as they are currently designed – are released on a semi-regular schedule, then they risk having them become the perceived end game in GW2. That is bad because of the limited appeal of raids in their current format.

The 9 month relative lack of new endgame PvE content in the persistent world is over, at least for now. A 2-3 month release schedule for LW updates is lower than the 3-4 month gaps between raid wings. That’s assuming Anet keeps to those patterns.

Locking people out of that content (even perceptually) will result in disillusioned players who feel like the game is no longer really designed for them.

Some players will feel neglected no matter what ANet does. Having chosen to try to appeal to both persistent world endgame tastes and harder instanced PvE endgame tastes, ANet’s challenge is to keep both groups as happy as their production limitations allow. Will some people feel as you say? Undoubtedly. However, some people are going to feel neglected unless everything the game releases is right up their alley — and developers cannot base their plans on appealing to such players.

The answer – that many don’t want to accept – is to incorporate tiered difficulty across multiple game modes. Expand raids to include a wider base of player (no matter what raids were originally intended to do) and look at expanding things like story steps, fractals, etc to include much more difficulty content (alongside what we have now).

Would this take extra developer resources? Of course. Would it be worth the time? I really think it would.

What remains to be seen is whether ANet thinks so. So far, not so much. As I said, they’ve chosen to try to appeal to different demographics. If they choose to produce easier versions of harder content, hard content aficionados would then be justified to demand ANet also produce harder versions of the easier content. The unfortunate truth — that some don’t want to accept — is that MMO’s need to appeal to a broad base of support to thrive financially, and that means the developers cannot make versions of everything in order to appeal to everyone.

See italics, above.

(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

As for Vince, I’m not gonna bother but you should stop spreading false accusations, the only thing in which I screwed up badly was the reflect (which is a bad strategy btw, 2 reflects and more healing/support is better), seeing that you worship the CM so hard means you might be on his guild, maybe I’m wrong but I don’t care, grow up and make sandwiches.

Please be honest and don’t lie or at least if you do not remember then just accept it.
You haven’t failed reflecting because you haven’t played a reflecting class and that was not the reason the runs weren’t successful. The shakes you mentioned in the other thread also weren’t the problem, the poison and the tanking was. Also your utilities were suboptimal and you were asked to change – as I said, in TS and squad chat. I felt sorry for you when some guys got het up because you were not reacting and also not improving after several runs. But that was on your side, you could have reacted to them. Everything else was nice in this group and the run, even after several wipes.
And no, I was random in this group as well, I neither know this comander nor I was running with him before.

Relating to the “elitist” thing and “subforum in a nutshell”: I doubt that many of the raiders in this forum are toxic or “special” in their behaviour. Meanwhile I have met so many people raiding and I can’t remember of 5 individuals behaving toxic or like elitists towards others.
But the overall amount of refusing or ignorant players I’ve met is way higher. It’s funny because there are 9 people sitting in a squad having a straight thought about being successful and expect the last one to fit into that group. It’s a team thing and you need to get things done together as 10 – together. I still don’t understand why people would not adapt to this situation and persist on their build or egoistic playstyle. This foils the aspect of teamplay and working together as a group. It makes no sense at all.

Additionally, almost every commander acts politely and group members as well: They ask you to change things without yelling or being rude. The toxicity comes into place when a player refuses to those requests, is trying to discuss or something else or was simply faking stuff to get an easy carry. To keep a good and positive atmosphere it’s better to break up with such an individuals. They are the toxic ones – not the ones kicking. The “kickers” made up their wishes in the lfg and you have to fulfil those wishes otherwise don’t join. It’s plain simple and not unfair, elitist or anything else.

Finally, the last two days in this subforum have shown that again we have people telling us stuff and after several posts there are ex-group members telling us the true story which is not fitting to the first. And in the end the so called toxic raiding community wasn’t the issue – the single player was because he couldn’t behave like a teamplayer. Guys, be honest with yourselves even it is hard to do so!

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

(edited by Vinceman.4572)

Raids aren't working better than dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: savacli.8172

savacli.8172

Finally, the last two days in this subforum have shown that again we have people telling us stuff and after several posts there are ex-group members telling us the true story which is not fitting to the first. And in the end the so called toxic raiding community wasn’t the issue – the single player was because he couldn’t behave like a teamplayer. Guys, be honest with yourselves even it is hard to do so!

Preach brotha!

(Sista?)

Raids aren't working better than dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: otome.2673

otome.2673

Raids are easier and have less deversity.

Raids aren't working better than dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Raids are easier and have less deversity.

sure