Guild Wars 2

If we can go back in time and look at the original statements

The claim was that rangers are, overall, more useful than warriors in PVE

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Broadicea.8294:

If Rangers have better DPS than warriors than a full ranger group will be faster than a full warrior group. This is demonstrably not the case.

@Winston My claim isn’t that “Brasil has proved that Rangers > Warriors”. My claim is that he(they) proved that Ranger’s aren’t as trash tier as was once believed.

O ya i understand that, just trying to understand the ranger dps discussion going on since i missed a couple pages and was to lazy to read, was just making sure that i didnt miss any new data showing rangers>warriors. But ya rangers are not as bad as everyone has thought it seems, not beast god mode next level killing machine. But not trash. :p

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

@Winston My claim isn’t that “Brasil has proved that Rangers > Warriors”. My claim is that he(they) proved that Ranger’s aren’t as trash tier as was once believed.

And I completely agree with that? That’s not Guang’s claim though, that’s Brazil’s. So good job on Brazil for:

-making a claim
-providing verifiable empirical evidence

Something that some people haven’t figured out how to do.

It isnt about whethet ranger is better in a party than a warrior (it isnt) its about whether a ranger is better than having a THIRD warrior, which it very well may be in some instances.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It isnt about whethet ranger is better in a party than a warrior (it isnt) its about whether a ranger is better than having a THIRD warrior, which it very well may be in some instances.

Let’s not confuse DnT’s claims (grounded in reality, supported by empirical evidence) with these claims (conceived in La La Land, the ravings of a lunatic, grounds for forcible confinement in a sanitarium):

Wukunlin.8461:

If we can go back in time and look at the original statements

The point isn’t to find a ranger that can out dps a warrior, it’s to find a ranger that can create more dps within the party as a whole than taking ANOTHER warrior. Unique non-stacking party buff saturation. Doesn’t matter what 1 guy does by himself or we would all be running empower not empower allies.

Thank you for putting this video showing what Ranger profession is capable of.

I myself is a long time ranger (call me crazy) with a lots of PvE content done in GW2.
Unfortunately the build presented will only work in ‘perfect’ conditions: i.e. when you have an experienced premade and when content is not-so-hard (hello 48 fractals). As soon as you get in PUG lacking DPS and survivability, as soon as trash stops dying in a matter of seconds, as soon as your PUGs start dying this build is no longer viable. I am talking mostly about sword as a main DPS source. I love DPS on this weapon and i love skills but inability to dodge when u need it in a dodge-or-die game kills it for me. Maybe Arenanet fix this at some point or introduce another 1H melee weapon (like dagger)

I think what made guang’s idea’s laughable is that he said that engineers were so overpowered that he thought it was common knowledge that engi’s were the most broken class in the game. He also said that engineer and ranger were better overall for pve and that guardian dps is higher than warrior’s. This certainly helps his case but I’m not sure that we should be admitting he was right quite yet.

Skady.5916:

Thank you for putting this video showing what Ranger profession is capable of.

I myself is a long time ranger (call me crazy) with a lots of PvE content done in GW2.
Unfortunately the build presented will only work in ‘perfect’ conditions: i.e. when you have an experienced premade and when content is not-so-hard (hello 48 fractals). As soon as you get in PUG lacking DPS and survivability, as soon as trash stops dying in a matter of seconds, as soon as your PUGs start dying this build is no longer viable. I am talking mostly about sword as a main DPS source. I love DPS on this weapon and i love skills but inability to dodge when u need it in a dodge-or-die game kills it for me. Maybe Arenanet fix this at some point or introduce another 1H melee weapon (like dagger)

Pugs are a different environment altogether. I wouldn’t say that the build isn’t viable at all, but it would probably take more effort to survive and that effort may not be worth it to a lot of people.

For those of us who are still stuck on not seeing as big numbers appearing on the ranger’s screen in Brazil’s video, don’t forget that Spotter and Frost Spirit are, on average, boosting everyone else’s damage by about 12%.

Broadicea.8294:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It isnt about whethet ranger is better in a party than a warrior (it isnt) its about whether a ranger is better than having a THIRD warrior, which it very well may be in some instances.

Let’s not confuse DnT’s claims (grounded in reality, supported by empirical evidence) with these claims (conceived in La La Land, the ravings of a lunatic, grounds for forcible confinement in a sanitarium):

Wukunlin.8461:

If we can go back in time and look at the original statements

I am curious as to why you think DnT’s claims are valid and mine are not when they are the exact same thing. Why do you DnT went and ran a ranger in their team in the first place? It certainly isn’t because Brazil mis-clicked on the character select screen.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

For those of us who are still stuck on not seeing as big numbers appearing on the ranger’s screen in Brazil’s video, don’t forget that Spotter and Frost Spirit are, on average, boosting everyone else’s damage by about 12%.

Broadicea.8294:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It isnt about whethet ranger is better in a party than a warrior (it isnt) its about whether a ranger is better than having a THIRD warrior, which it very well may be in some instances.

Let’s not confuse DnT’s claims (grounded in reality, supported by empirical evidence) with these claims (conceived in La La Land, the ravings of a lunatic, grounds for forcible confinement in a sanitarium):

Wukunlin.8461:

If we can go back in time and look at the original statements

I am curious as to why you think DnT’s claims are valid and mine are not when they are the exact same thing. Why do you DnT went and ran a ranger in their team in the first place? It certainly isn’t because Brazil mis-clicked on the character select screen.

It was because I was finally too curious and decided to try things for myself instead of continuing to regurgitate forum hate.

Broadicea.8294:

Vox Hollow.2736:

Another issue I’m seeing though, just to add it to the pile of “kitten that needs fixed on Rangers” is that my Jaguar doesn’t always crit from Stealth. Isn’t it supposed to?

It used to, but that’s was altered last patch. It’s still a very high Crit rate, even if it’s not 100%.

Well he gets Spotter and Fury too. Annoying, oh well.

The pet likely won’t get spotter due to the 5 person cap on buffs and pets always take lower priority. Fury will be transferred from the ranger onto the pet using the ranger’s boon duration value if you have the trait Fortifying Bond (which this build does) but I think there is some kind of hidden duration reduction built in so that you don’t pass on the full duration of boons as you originally received them.

One of the things you have to deal with when playing a ranger (and probably all classes) is a boat load of terrible tool tips. Hidden values, completely missing components of skills (the Jaguar’s “Stalk” skill only mentions stealth, it says nothing about crit chance) so a lot of rangers are in the dark about their abilities. Other skills (like Frost Spirit) have wrong descriptions. Also notice that a warrior banner will have an AoE ring showing its radius but ranger spirits do not.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I was considering rolling a ranger, just because that sword auto attack looks pretty kitten fun

If you read the ranger forums full of players who actually did roll a ranger, you will find that viewpoint is in the minority. The sword auto-attack is a death trap.

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

randomfightfan.4091:

“Rangers aren’t as bad as everyone thinks they are.”

Well story time for you then. Just finished a pug CoE run. There’s 2 rangers in our group. One has 11k achieves, one 10.8k. One guy in the pt brings up your video. The rangers say they don’t use that build, it’s junk, they use their build, the “best” build. After 3 runs of Coe, the did nothing at all except sbow 1 spamming. They swapped weapons once the entire dungeon… to long bow for the destroyer.

Rangers are still just as bad as ever, despite what this video shows.

Bad Rangers are bad. The profession has qualities that make it very good, despite everything I used to think about them. That’s why we had a 16 second Destroyer kill and you… Well, you played with some bad Rangers.

I had a TA run with this ranger. I told him to not use the bear — that if he had issues with pet survival to just run a drake as it’s similarly tanky, but does the damage of dogs and is the only pet that cleaves and has a blast finisher.

The ranger proceeded to longbow all things to death with his bear put on passive throughout the run.

I mained a ranger. I don’t have a vendetta against the class. But the way this game advertises the class just attracts the worst of players to it. I very rarely see rangers that will melee. It’s all those terrible bows.

One of the reasons GW2 made the first five skills on your bar the same based on your weapon was to prevent players from having bad builds. Unfortunately the people who made that decision also made the decision to lower ranged DPS (and create punishing boss mechanic) which result in most ranged builds to be bad builds. Go figure.

One of the reasons why you won’t see melee rangers (and when you do it’s usually a greatsword) is because the skill cap on a main hand sword ranger is probably the highest for any melee weapon. No other melee weapon requires you to pay attention to the attack rotation so that you can dodge and no other melee weapon will create a situation with it’s auto attack where you can’t dodge (even if you pay attention to rotations, the reality is there are moments you can’t dodge and even walking behind your target is harder). I might be wrong about no other class having the can’t dodge “feature” but I have levelled every class to 80 and the main hand sword is in a world of it’s own.

Shiren.9532:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I was considering rolling a ranger, just because that sword auto attack looks pretty kitten fun

If you read the ranger forums full of players who actually did roll a ranger, you will find that viewpoint is in the minority. The sword auto-attack is a death trap.

It’s a death trap until you get used to it.

Is it a clunky design or there is a real reason for not being able to break auto-attack to dodge?

SkyChef.5432:

Is it a clunky design or there is a real reason for not being able to break auto-attack to dodge?

So you can stick on people 1v1 in PvP and keep the crippled while your pet kills them. It just carries over to PvE i guess.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Shiren.9532:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I was considering rolling a ranger, just because that sword auto attack looks pretty kitten fun

If you read the ranger forums full of players who actually did roll a ranger, you will find that viewpoint is in the minority. The sword auto-attack is a death trap.

It’s a death trap until you get used to it.

I’ve mained ranger since launch, I don’t do as many dungeons as you but I also don’t run dungeons with the groups you run them in, I run them in pugs (and I think a lot of people would agree, finishing some dungeons with the wrong pug is harder than doing speed runs). Even the build Guanglai Kangyi posted on Guru a long time ago (which is nearly the same as yours but emphasised boon duration to make the most of Fortifying Bond) talks about how you can’t use the main hand sword when precision control is needed because the sword simply deprives you of that regardless of how “used to it” you are (I believe specific mention was made of swapping to a greatsword to override the auto attack and allow a dodge).

My main issue with your build/video/stance on the sword is that the video shows you in a speed clear group that is able to melt a boss in seconds. I don’t even think you needed to dodge, reposition or use Serpent Strike once in your video. You just auto attacked the boss to death standing in one place. If you have the right party set up (which it sounds like you are used to running with in dungeons and this informs your view of classes and how builds work in dungeons) there is no problem here (assuming you stay out of more difficult content). The trouble begins when you have PVT shout heal warriors, staff elementalists, full tank guardians and other lower DPS members (or just take on more challenging content). The majority of (non-speed clear) pugs are like this because glass cannon is actually easier than other builds only when the whole party is optimised for glass cannon. When the party isn’t, bosses don’t die in 16 seconds, spirits will get killed, party members will need a res etc.

For as long as I’ve been reading the ranger forums I’ve never seen any rangers talk about the main hand sword as a general use dungeon weapon, whenever it was used it seemed to be reserved for situations similair to your video (or they did weird things like disabled auto-attack and relied on weapon swaps to stay alive). I’ve tried it myself many times (and I’m far from the best ranger, let alone the best sword ranger) and while I can do fine in CoF, as soon as I encounter more difficult group content, any other weapon is better. It’s been common knowledge (to rangers) that the main hand sword is the highest DPS weapon the class has, it’s not a coincidence that very few rangers run it.

@SkyChef, it’s a weapon that’s hindered by its sPvP design. In sPvP the cripple (and even the follow) are incredibly useful and make it quite a good weapon. In PvE both of those things are useless and the latter is actually a serious hindrance. I honestly don’t know why dodge doesn’t take priority over it (I guess it’s because it’s technically a “leap” and you can’t dodge while using normal leap skills) but I also don’t understand why dodge doesn’t take priority over a revive either.

Well, it’s not an arbitrary restriction, there is a reason that the root happens.
Kick and Pounce are mechanically leaps, even though Kick doesn’t say so, and technically any leap skill causes your character to be rooted while the animation is cycling through. Though in my opinion, any design that has such widespread disapproval could rightly be called clunky no matter what the reasons are.

Brazil; the hero the Rangers didn’t know they had! Good vid. bud.

The one they need but not the one they deserve?

haviz.1340:

colesy.8490:

Cry more.

In the meantime, since 99% of rangers are absolute trash I’m not going to waste my time taking them on dungeon runs.

Most people in this thread probably don’t pug at all.

I pug err’y day.

Though I also don’t splatter these types of threads in absolutes like some ppl here.
I’d also conversely point out that a couple PUG’s I’ve joined were far superior to many of the Guild/Friend teams I’ve done the content with. So it’s a real “RNG Box” you’re opening up either way. And I feel people who NEVER pug are also missing out b/c they’ll never see those surprisingly great team either. (I’m waiting to randomly join one that Brazil is in…I hear they’re always epically entertaining)

Broadicea.8294:

oh no, the guardian had to bring hallowed ground and purging flames, party comp is radically altered….

Actually it is for near any dungeon except cof and coe, nikaido can try to argue that you don’t have to change that much, but in any dungeon that requires more projectile protection than a mesmer can provide, or needs a good shout/condi removal and block rotation then yes, yes the group comp is radically altered. So in AC, CM, TA, SE, Arah and fractals LH ele would not replace a warrior, where as a ranger could provide unique party buffs without changing anything.

Ather.5091:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

According to the wiki, it has no cooldown. And LH Ele more or less requires specific changes to a group makeup. Standard builds don’t work as well with it.

Isn’t this why we run in guilds? Obviously we would not take a LH into a group without respecing everything to accommodate this. And we still get all 3 paths done <35 min relying on one.

Also, wouldn’t a thief be a better replacement than a ranger?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I’d hardly call a former Marine a silly goose, but that’s your call I suppose. Perhaps he’s got a fiery nature.

wha?

Yes this is why “WE” run in guild groups, brazil is suggesting to the PUBLIC that ranger can be a good candidate if used correctly.
Either way you have to change more to acclimate a LH ele than you do a ranger. And i all 3 in 35 min? Most impressive, have yet to see any evidence that you have beat DnT times.
Unless I was supposed to watch your fabled videos while I used your guild as a lfg site.
Maybe if I had watched them I could figure out which of your guardians had the abysmal block/condi removal rotation.
No thief is just crap even if it does have better personal dps the argument is for a war replacement which means it must provide useful damage dealing buffs to the group.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

For those of us who are still stuck on not seeing as big numbers appearing on the ranger’s screen in Brazil’s video, don’t forget that Spotter and Frost Spirit are, on average, boosting everyone else’s damage by about 12%.

could you enlighten me on how that 12% came from? (serious question)

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

For those of us who are still stuck on not seeing as big numbers appearing on the ranger’s screen in Brazil’s video, don’t forget that Spotter and Frost Spirit are, on average, boosting everyone else’s damage by about 12%.

could you enlighten me on how that 12% came from? (serious question)

7% from Frost Spirit, 5% from Spotter.

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

For those of us who are still stuck on not seeing as big numbers appearing on the ranger’s screen in Brazil’s video, don’t forget that Spotter and Frost Spirit are, on average, boosting everyone else’s damage by about 12%.

could you enlighten me on how that 12% came from? (serious question)

Well frost spirit is 7%, so he’s putting 5% on spotter. Spotter is a 150 precision boost or 150/21 crit chance boost. If it’s increasing it by 5% then that would mean…

(1+(Crit Chance+150/2100)(Critdmg+0.5)/(1+Crit Chance(Critdmg+0.5)) = 1.05
(a 5% increase in your multiplier generated as a result of critting)

Lots of maths (read: computer solving things for me) later, assuming an original crit chance of 80%, this would be at ~109.1% critdmg.

@60% crit chance, 70.7% crit dmg
@65% crit chance, 78.4% crit dmg
@70% crit chance, 87.25% crit dmg
@75% crit chance, 97.34% crit dmg

Ya, I’m bored. So what?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

Single target, dagger necro falls behind? That hasn’t been my impression. His auto sure as hell seems to outdamage my ranger/thief dagger base, maybe with might stacking the scaling is different?

What? I’m skeptical about Necro out-damaging a Thief single target. I’d kind of like to see evidence of that. It may be a bigger number than something like a Ranger, but how quickly does it attack when compared?

I didn’t say it was higher than thief single target. I said the necro dagger auto is higher than the thief dagger auto and the ranger sword auto. On my necro on the 3rd part of the chain in berserker I can get 4-5k crits without much in the way of might.

But does it attack as quickly as a Ranger? and are you factoring in Hunter’s Call and the pet attacking too?

Try the necro dagger attack rates yourself. It’s pretty fast.

Don’t know if it overcomes the pet, but I’m just saying necro is in no way near engineer levels of bad.

The engineer is just bad because his melee option, the toolkit, is really bad for auto.

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

Single target, dagger necro falls behind? That hasn’t been my impression. His auto sure as hell seems to outdamage my ranger/thief dagger base, maybe with might stacking the scaling is different?

What? I’m skeptical about Necro out-damaging a Thief single target. I’d kind of like to see evidence of that. It may be a bigger number than something like a Ranger, but how quickly does it attack when compared?

I didn’t say it was higher than thief single target. I said the necro dagger auto is higher than the thief dagger auto and the ranger sword auto. On my necro on the 3rd part of the chain in berserker I can get 4-5k crits without much in the way of might.

But does it attack as quickly as a Ranger? and are you factoring in Hunter’s Call and the pet attacking too?

Try the necro dagger attack rates yourself. It’s pretty fast.

Don’t know if it overcomes the pet, but I’m just saying necro is in no way near engineer levels of bad.

The engineer is just bad because his melee option, the toolkit, is really bad for auto.

The grenade is actually pretty neat. Auto attacks do near 4k and it’s ability to stack vuln is pretty insane. My problems I had with my brief testing on my Engi is that it’s utilities really suck. It doesn’t really do anything for the team other than DPS and stack vuln. It’s possible that I haven’t really figured out some other potential with the class, but I don’t really think it’s that bad. Another thing is that you’re rolling 3 crit rolls on each auto, not just 1, so there’s going to be a much larger difference in potential DPS per auto (this note is a negative, not a positive). The auto attack on grenade kit is also pretty slow, so this might just be ‘big number’ syndrome.

Zenith.7301:

Try the necro dagger attack rates yourself. It’s pretty fast.

Don’t know if it overcomes the pet, but I’m just saying necro is in no way near engineer levels of bad.

The engineer is just bad because his melee option, the toolkit, is really bad for auto.

Engi’s would be more useful if (a) the rest of your team wasn’t already capping vuln stacks (grenades), and (b) their more special effects meant anything in pve.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Zenith.7301:

Single target, dagger necro falls behind? That hasn’t been my impression. His auto sure as hell seems to outdamage my ranger/thief dagger base, maybe with might stacking the scaling is different?

What? I’m skeptical about Necro out-damaging a Thief single target. I’d kind of like to see evidence of that. It may be a bigger number than something like a Ranger, but how quickly does it attack when compared?

I didn’t say it was higher than thief single target. I said the necro dagger auto is higher than the thief dagger auto and the ranger sword auto. On my necro on the 3rd part of the chain in berserker I can get 4-5k crits without much in the way of might.

But does it attack as quickly as a Ranger? and are you factoring in Hunter’s Call and the pet attacking too?

Try the necro dagger attack rates yourself. It’s pretty fast.

Don’t know if it overcomes the pet, but I’m just saying necro is in no way near engineer levels of bad.

The engineer is just bad because his melee option, the toolkit, is really bad for auto.

The grenade is actually pretty neat. Auto attacks do near 4k and it’s ability to stack vuln is pretty insane. My problems I had with my brief testing on my Engi is that it’s utilities really suck. It doesn’t really do anything for the team other than DPS and stack vuln. It’s possible that I haven’t really figured out some other potential with the class, but I don’t really think it’s that bad. Another thing is that you’re rolling 3 crit rolls on each auto, not just 1, so there’s going to be a much larger difference in potential DPS per auto (this note is a negative, not a positive). The auto attack on grenade kit is also pretty slow, so this might just be ‘big number’ syndrome.

It’s one attack per second, which isn’t nearly as bad as you seem to think it is. It’s also three hits per attack, which is 3x as many chances to proc things, and it’s all AOE (not cleave, just straight AOE).

The reason engineer is good is basically because they stack so much of everything (except fury) that you don’t need anyone else to bring anything except their own unique buffs and straight DPS.

The engineer doesn’t have any one must-have item, it’s just really good at everything. It also heals the party a ton, which is also nice.

the rest of your team wasn’t already capping vuln stacks

I’ve never understood that viewpoint.
I hear that with all sorts of other boons and conditions. I mean, there’s like nine to twelve of them. Isn’t functional overlap kind of a foregone conclusion?

Just because the functional redundancy is rooted in core weapon concepts and not utilities like banners doesn’t mean you can’t still adapt to make sure your group is getting the best bang for their buck. Heck, I’m constantly switching around my offhand just to approach different fights better. So I kind of don’t get how two people with overlapping weapon concepts creates a point of contention?

Vox Hollow.2736:

the rest of your team wasn’t already capping vuln stacks

I’ve never understood that viewpoint.
I hear that with all sorts of other boons and conditions. I mean, there’s like nine to twelve of them. Isn’t functional overlap kind of a foregone conclusion?

Just because the functional redundancy is rooted in core weapon concepts and not utilities like banners doesn’t mean you can’t still adapt to make sure your group is getting the best bang for their buck. Heck, I’m constantly switching around my offhand just to approach different fights better. So I kind of don’t get how two people with overlapping weapon concepts creates a point of contention?

Because it takes no effort for a regular group to cap vuln stacks already so there’s no point in bringing some1 who brings less dps but the ability to stack a crazy amount of vuln. It still takes time to apply so for super speed clears you’re still going to want to OMM.

Player Character.9467:

Vox Hollow.2736:

the rest of your team wasn’t already capping vuln stacks

I’ve never understood that viewpoint.
I hear that with all sorts of other boons and conditions. I mean, there’s like nine to twelve of them. Isn’t functional overlap kind of a foregone conclusion?

Just because the functional redundancy is rooted in core weapon concepts and not utilities like banners doesn’t mean you can’t still adapt to make sure your group is getting the best bang for their buck. Heck, I’m constantly switching around my offhand just to approach different fights better. So I kind of don’t get how two people with overlapping weapon concepts creates a point of contention?

Because it takes no effort for a regular group to cap vuln stacks already so there’s no point in bringing some1 who brings less dps but the ability to stack a crazy amount of vuln. It still takes time to apply so for super speed clears you’re still going to want to OMM.

Yeah I agree, unless you can get something that brings something new to the party, you might as well just stick with warrior for the best dps.

You need an average of 50 vuln stacks to cap a boss 100% of the time. A warrior will hit about 10 stacks average with A/M and OMM, and a sword mesmer gets about 4. That means a VERY coordinated 4-warrior 1-mesmer team gets 44 stacks of vuln, or 22 sustained on a boss. A vuln-stacking engineer gets 25 stacks even; that’s a 15-stack advantage over a warrior, which means you can cut out a warrior altogether and still cap vuln. Since most classes have some incidental vuln stacking, you can usually cut out a second warrior even and have the other two replacements be enough to cap vuln.

Similarly, an engineer can burst 12 stacks of might right off the bat (4 blast finishers in fire field, 5 if he uses elite as well) so with a mesmer that is all of your might stacks covered. That means that with a ranger, engineer, and mesmer together, you already have might, vuln, and fury near-maxed between the three of them, so you have two slots free to take whatever you want. Those two slots can optimize for direct DPS instead of having to worry about being able to contribute their share of might and vuln; for example, the warriors can drop OMM and FGJ (and even the mace offhand), while the guardians can go full 20/30/20/0/0 DPS spec instead of having to spec for Empowering Might.

It is simply a matter of economy. Engineers can stack more than warriors with less tradeoff, so there’s no reason not to take them. The current “meta” warrior, guardian, and ranger builds don’t bleed at all either, so engineers are able to contribute their full potential in bleed and poison without overlap.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You need an average of 50 vuln stacks to cap a boss 100% of the time. A warrior will hit about 10 stacks average with A/M and OMM, and a sword mesmer gets about 4. That means a VERY coordinated 4-warrior 1-mesmer team gets 44 stacks of vuln, or 22 sustained on a boss. A vuln-stacking engineer gets 25 stacks even; that’s a 15-stack advantage over a warrior, which means you can cut out a warrior altogether and still cap vuln. Since most classes have some incidental vuln stacking, you can usually cut out a second warrior even and have the other two replacements be enough to cap vuln.

Takes 0 consideration for the duration of a vuln to determine coverage, just throws out assumed numbers. Love it.

Or the fact that you still don’t drop the warrio because, banners.

Anet had the brilliant idea of only giving one class the ability to buff primary attributes by a sizable amount for the entire group.

Everybody else just get boons. No one can buff critdmg, no one can buff power or precision with a utility. Just the warrior.

Player Character.9467:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You need an average of 50 vuln stacks to cap a boss 100% of the time. A warrior will hit about 10 stacks average with A/M and OMM, and a sword mesmer gets about 4. That means a VERY coordinated 4-warrior 1-mesmer team gets 44 stacks of vuln, or 22 sustained on a boss. A vuln-stacking engineer gets 25 stacks even; that’s a 15-stack advantage over a warrior, which means you can cut out a warrior altogether and still cap vuln. Since most classes have some incidental vuln stacking, you can usually cut out a second warrior even and have the other two replacements be enough to cap vuln.

Takes 0 consideration for the duration of a vuln to determine coverage, just throws out assumed numbers. Love it.

Uh, right. Anyway:

Zenith.7301:

Or the fact that you still don’t drop the warrio because, banners.

Anet had the brilliant idea of only giving one class the ability to buff primary attributes by a sizable amount for the entire group.

Everybody else just get boons. No one can buff critdmg, no one can buff power or precision with a utility. Just the warrior.

No one’s denying this is the case. That doesn’t mean taking three warriors for two banners is any better than taking one warrior for two banners.

Warrior, ranger, guardian, engineer, mesmer. Boom, maxed on everything, both offensive and defense.

And why do you even need defense when the entire dungeon experience is hurrrr DPS?

How much faster could the [SOLO] group kill Lupicus if they went with that team comp rather than 1 mesmer 4 warrrios, I wonder.

Broadicea.8294:

How much faster could the [SOLO] group kill Lupicus if they went with that team comp rather than 1 mesmer 4 warrrios, I wonder.

Team composition used in those speedkills needs as much burst as possible. His is more about sustained damage.

rangers are NOT awesome. Rangers is the class that needs the most help. I play ranger because i like bow wearing characters but don’t tell me that rangers are fine… You swap pets, gain 3sec of quickness and your pet doesn’t even instantly attack and instead wastes 2sec standing still~~~~~~if this is not broken i don’t know what is.

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

How much faster could the [SOLO] group kill Lupicus if they went with that team comp rather than 1 mesmer 4 warrrios, I wonder.

Team composition used in those speedkills needs as much burst as possible. His is more about sustained damage.

If only these fights lasted longer than a warrior’s DPS rotation, then the Rainbow Coalition group would show its true quality.

Nuka Cola.8520:

rangers are NOT awesome. Rangers is the class that needs the most help. I play ranger because i like bow wearing characters but don’t tell me that rangers are fine… You swap pets, gain 3sec of quickness and your pet doesn’t even instantly attack and instead wastes 2sec standing still~~~~~~if this is not broken i don’t know what is.

But Rangers are fine. I don’t really have issues with mine at all.

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

How much faster could the [SOLO] group kill Lupicus if they went with that team comp rather than 1 mesmer 4 warrrios, I wonder.

Team composition used in those speedkills needs as much burst as possible. His is more about sustained damage.

Now if only we had more sustained fights

Nikaido.3457:

ilr.9675:

Video about Ranger damage….
Party is 3 Wars and a Guard

Another masterpiece from Brazil

Not surprised he chose to replace the mesmer instead of another war.
And unlike the LH ele the ranger doesn’t really have much war replacing potential. At best they can replace one war. It doesn’t grant the kind of benefit the LH ele does through spamming LH into fire fields. The only things it can bring is done by a single ranger at which point you’ll hit high diminishing returns for taking more.

They also lack the utility such as crowd control with that weapon set and we all know how useful the war mace knockdown / guardian pull or banish / mesmer interrupt / LH launch are for CoE farms. Seems like a leech build, exactly like Nike’s necromancer.

This thread would be brazil’s best troll if it manages to convince a couple people to spend their in game gold to craftlvl a ranger.

Why u mad tho?

Spiuk.8421:

Why u mad tho?

I don’t get it.

“Warrior, ranger, guardian, engineer, mesmer. Boom, maxed on everything, both offensive and defense.”

And while 5 warriors would have already got the dungeon completion reward, your engineer, ranger and mesmer are still running to the first boss.

Nice theory you do, sadly nothing close to praxis :/
Lupicus is one of the few fights where burst is not everything that matters (10 seconds phase 1 – a whole warrior rotation) and still any setup but 4w1m wouldn’t come close to as good times. You might replace one warrior but nothing else.

Dub.1273:

“Warrior, ranger, guardian, engineer, mesmer. Boom, maxed on everything, both offensive and defense.”

And while 5 warriors would have already got the dungeon completion reward, your engineer, ranger and mesmer are still running to the first boss.

Nice theory you do, sadly nothing close to praxis :/
Lupicus is one of the few fights where burst is not everything that matters (10 seconds phase 1 – a whole warrior rotation) and still any setup but 4w1m wouldn’t come close to as good times. You might replace one warrior but nothing else.

b…but…but my spreadsheets…