Rangers Useless in Dungeons

Rangers Useless in Dungeons

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

IT’S SUPER OBVIOUS THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY READ THE POST AND EVERYONE WAS JUST REACTING TO THE JOKE TITLE SO I’LL JUST STATE THIS OUTRIGHT: RANGERS ARE BAD EVEN IF THEY’RE PLAYED PROPERLY.

Hurr no one want my ranger in dungeon kick on sight lfg only say war/mes etc.

In all seriousness though I’m starting to think that although ranger was good back in 2013 when everyone was running warrior and mesmer, they’re not so hot in 2014 with all the new changes and eles being a lot more prevalent. As such, I’d say yes, kick the ranger even if he’s sword/wh meta spotter/fs spec because:

1) Ranger is not much of a might-stacking class so Strength runes aren’t terribly helpful for them.

2) The Ferocity patch was relatively neutral for them (they got hit roughly about as hard as anyone else) because while pets are unaffected by the Ferocity change, rangers are also one of the classes with Precision and Ferocity in the same line, which means they also rely on crit damage relatively more than others who get their DPS from straight multiplicative modifiers. At the same time Spotter is a lot weaker now because less crit damage equates to a smaller boost from Precision.

3) The primary ranger DPS weapon is 1h so they did not benefit from the extra sigil on 2h, unlike classes like the guardian (hammer/GS), warrior (greatsword), ele (staff), and engineer (rifle).

4) They did not get any significant trait or mechanics buffs, unlike other classes like the warrior (getting DWA), engineer (ascended kit damage), guardian (extra tick on hammer symbol with WoP), ele (extra tick on Lava Font with Persisting Flames), etc.

The result is that right now, Ranger is pretty much the lowest DPS class (even necro is higher) by a fair margin, whereas before they were much closer to warriors. I have them calculated at around 8.5k potential max DPS (without Bloodlust, but with Night) using Sword/WH, compared to the warrior who gets 10.5k with A/M EA build and ele who gets 16.8k with max DPS staff spec. Take out FS and Spotter which would be unavailable without the ranger and you’re looking at 9.5k for the warrior and 15k for the ele. That’s only around 10-12% boost to 4 members of the party, at the cost of losing almsot 50% DPS relative to a staff ele for a 5th. That’s break-even territory at best.

So basically what I’m saying is that the 10-12% party DPS boost that a FS/Spotter ranger gives isn’t worth suffering the personal DPS loss. Just to keep things really simple, a 4war/1ele group would output 53k sustained DPS (15k + 9.5k x 4) versus a 4war/1ran group outputting 50.5k (10.5k x 4 + 8.5k). And that’s assuming 100% uptime on the Frost Spirit and the ranger’s pet.

(edited by Guanglai Kangyi.4318)

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Posted by: Purple Miku.7032

Purple Miku.7032

Don’t give a kitten. Would rather have a ranger dealing 9.5k DPS than a rifle warrior with a banner of tactics.

In all seriousness though I don’t know enough about rangers to add much to this discussion. I don’t kick any class on sight if I’m pugging because I never ask for specific ones. If you’re pugging, chances are you’re going to get the opposite of what you ask for on the LFG— especially on EU where 99% of the people who join parties are illiterate.

LFG “P1 must be mentally challenged and AFK with ranged weapons a lot” etc. will typically yield better results than “P1 experienced lupi melee” for example.

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Posted by: dAcIaW.5107

dAcIaW.5107

What I like about rangers most is their water field heal spell, that thing cures conditions, and lasts for a while so you can bomb it to get everyone back to full hitpoints if needed.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Thank god you guys have frostspotter. I’m just sad that in newer players I never really see it in PUGs, but I think rangers are perfectly fine if they run frostspotter.

Its baffling how toxic and unintelligent the PvE PUG community can be. For example, in AC I got kicked for explaining why I wouldn’t stack the spider queen after explianing how without 2 eles you really can’t do that anymore. He asked me if I were on shrooms and kicked me. Disgraceful.

I got into a conversation with this one guy who posted an LFG for SE p1 saying heavies only, and had 1 guard and 3 warriors waitingfor another heavy. I asked one of them why they said heavies only, and he said because he could and because a guardian with 4 warriors is best DPS in the game because of empower+100blades. I mean, that was absurd to me that people can be so uninformed. I explained to him that 2 eles, a warrior, a guard, and then a thief, would definetly out DPS that party comp no questions asked. He said I was stupid and wrong and then blocked me. Yey.

Why do people who make such bold claims say so without doing any research to back up their claims? Its as toxic and harmful to the community of this game just as the unjustified hate towards rangers and necromancers because they only ever see bad ones. The good players of those classes suffer because people who see rangers and necromancers, unless they are educated about those classes and their potential in PvE, only see useless bearbows or leeching conditionmancers. And every time I see someone running a bearbow or conditionmancer in a pug, I feel like it only contributes to the bad image even more.

Also on a side note I saw a few days ago a longbow axe/warhorn ranger with a bear pet, 2K AP and both frostfang and howler somehow. It was baffling to see someone with so much shiny expensive stuff run a ridiculed build. I told him about the frostspotter build though, so maybe there is hope for him.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: RSLongK.8961

RSLongK.8961

“3) The primary ranger DPS weapon is 1h so they did not benefit from the extra sigil on 2h, unlike classes like the guardian (hammer/GS), warrior (greatsword), ele (staff), and engineer (rifle).”
If you walk with warhorn(buff might) or torch(Firefield) or axe (reflect) off hand and put a sigil on it… dont you have the same effect? Oo
Now, without over analysing, i could even agree, IF everyone was running around in meta, but, since i only pug, a meta ranger is still a better asset than any PHIW out there.

Main: Warrior|Character counter: 16

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

“3) The primary ranger DPS weapon is 1h so they did not benefit from the extra sigil on 2h, unlike classes like the guardian (hammer/GS), warrior (greatsword), ele (staff), and engineer (rifle).”
If you walk with warhorn(buff might) or torch(Firefield) or axe (reflect) off hand and put a sigil on it… dont you have the same effect? Oo
Now, without over analysing, i could even agree, IF everyone was running around in meta, but, since i only pug, a meta ranger is still a better asset than any PHIW out there.

They could always do that. What I mean is that 2h weapons are now stronger relative to 1h weapons than they were pre-feature patch because 2h now gets the extra sigil. So where 1h weapon A slotted with two sigils might have been previously equal with 2h weapon B with one sigil, it’s now weaker relative to 2h weapon B with two.

That said it does mean that GS is a lot closer to 1HS now (the DPS gap is closer to 10% now than 20% like previously) but it doesn’t do much in terms of objectively comparing max-strength ranger with any other class.

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Posted by: Zorby.8236

Zorby.8236

1) Ranger is not much of a might-stacking class so Strength runes aren’t terribly helpful for them.

And? Can still use Scholar/Ranger…

So basically what I’m saying is that the 10-12% party DPS boost that a FS/Spotter ranger gives isn’t worth suffering the personal DPS loss. Just to keep things really simple, a 4war/1ele group would output 53k sustained DPS (15k + 9.5k x 4) versus a 4war/1ran group outputting 50.5k (10.5k x 4 + 8.5k). And that’s assuming 100% uptime on the Frost Spirit and the ranger’s pet.

3War/1Ran/1Ele beats 4War/1Ele though. Sure, Rangers aren’t in the most optimal comps, but there are worse comps not including Ranger as well.

~This is the internet, my (or your) opinion doesn’t matter~

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Posted by: Gyler.8150

Gyler.8150

Rangers have good burst damage, but little sustain, basically they are useful on fights where most of their hits would be from activating signet of the wild. Not sure how much dps a SotW + QZ is, but I feel it’s a very decent number, while it lasts.

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Posted by: Veckna.9621

Veckna.9621

We all know the only reason rangers have become such a discriminated profession in PUGs is the existence of this little newbie friendly build called ‘bearbow’.
Most of the people playing ranger at this very moment are utter beginners as having their pet tank their mobs for them is much more handy than having to dodge and employ other ways of avoiding damage. This has lead to some excellent ranger players being put in the same boat and a profession that actually has something to bring to a group being left to rot in the shade.
I just wouldn’t say Necros are more desirable than rangers for 2 simple reasons:
1. Necros don’t have cleave damage in their optimal berserker’s builds;
2. Necros hardly have anything that contributes to the group’s performance, their best skill in this regard might be Well of Power and it still is easily outclassed by other professions’ similar skills.

Oh and the little AI issues with the pets do weigh in mind as well, it’s not fun to have a rogue jaguar aggro every mob in the dungeon that you were planning on skipping.
But I’d take a ranger over a necro any day of the week

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

Rangers are not booted from PUG groups because of lack of dps. It’s the lack of everything else that gets them kicked out.

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

1) Ranger is not much of a might-stacking class so Strength runes aren’t terribly helpful for them.

And? Can still use Scholar/Ranger…

So basically what I’m saying is that the 10-12% party DPS boost that a FS/Spotter ranger gives isn’t worth suffering the personal DPS loss. Just to keep things really simple, a 4war/1ele group would output 53k sustained DPS (15k + 9.5k x 4) versus a 4war/1ran group outputting 50.5k (10.5k x 4 + 8.5k). And that’s assuming 100% uptime on the Frost Spirit and the ranger’s pet.

3War/1Ran/1Ele beats 4War/1Ele though. Sure, Rangers aren’t in the most optimal comps, but there are worse comps not including Ranger as well.

But it loses to 3war/2ele. That’s the point, switching the ranger for an ele (or any other useful class in the given context) leads to an overall boost in damage. That’s compared to the other two “DPS support” classes (warrior and engineer) who have a much better ratio of damage gained versus damage lost.

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Posted by: EgonVenkman.1907

EgonVenkman.1907

Want to know why rangers tend to get kicked? At least with groups I play with…. It is because you don’t know how to control your pet. Pet 101 should be part of the personal story for rangers.

Offenses: (not in order of importance)
1.) Go afk while pet attacks mob….. party needs to res, but your pet is in combat with mob umpteen miles away while you are nowhere to be found.
2.) Don’t know when to leash your pet. Unnecessary aggro or screwing with stacking. I prefer not to take a ranger to COE, as they will 99% of the time either aggro the giant after the laser/door blast, or muck with the stacking against subject alpha, causing his aoe to go into hyperactive megadeath mode.
3.) Abusive knockback. Not limited to rangers, but they seem to care less about melee members. It is like a game… how long can I make the players chase the mob?
4.) WoW transfers. Ranger is not Hunter from WoW. Too many think this and play with that mentality.

Colin Johanson: "Everyone, including casual gamers,
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Rangers are not booted from PUG groups because of lack of dps. It’s the lack of everything else that gets them kicked out.

You got that mixed up with Necromancers.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

I just wouldn’t say Necros are more desirable than rangers for 2 simple reasons:
1. Necros don’t have cleave damage in their optimal berserker’s builds;
2. Necros hardly have anything that contributes to the group’s performance, their best skill in this regard might be Well of Power and it still is easily outclassed by other professions’ similar skills.

But I’d take a ranger over a necro any day of the week

This is the exact mentality and problem I was talking about in regards to necromancers being discriminated against as much as rangers even though ideal ranger builds bring more to a group than a necro can. If we keep saying that its okay to just take another class over necro, or over ranger for that matter, we are gimping future progress for the balance and inclusion of all professions in high level PvE. Rangers just need maybe a minor DPS increase and their sword auto to be more dodge friendly and better pet management mechanics to be amazing in PvE. Necros just need a way to cleave besides their burst AoEs and they need some form of unique group support that boosts the damage of the entire party in a significant way, and perhaps some way to allow their group to avoid damage in a significant way other than blinds, but the damage reason is much more needed.

But until then we can’t run bearbow ranger builds or condition necromancer builds when we PUG. We need to show the pug community that our classes can contribute in a meaningful way and that we aren’t useless leeches. If I carry a bad pug on my necro, it contributes positively to the reputation of necromancers in PvE. If I run bearbow in a level 30 fractal, it detracts from the image of rangers in PvE. Basically we need to lead by example, until Anet introduces the much needed balance changes to shift the paradigm more in our favor. I believe these classes could be easily improved in obvious ways for PvE, and until that day comes I will play their best PvE builds to try and fight the discrimination on pug at a time.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
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Posted by: Lian Olsam.9541

Lian Olsam.9541

Till dps will be the betterand faster way to complete contents this game will never stop with those sh*ts… if for example condition should applyed only if u have >= x condi dmg cindi classes ( so also necro) will have a chance for be usefull, if an healer ( with new stats we can have it) will be the only way for do a content we will have other profession usefull, so 1 condi, 1 healer, 2 pure dps, 1suport etc etc

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

Till dps will be the betterand faster way to complete contents this game will never stop with those sh*ts… if for example condition should applyed only if u have >= x condi dmg cindi classes ( so also necro) will have a chance for be usefull, if an healer ( with new stats we can have it) will be the only way for do a content we will have other profession usefull, so 1 condi, 1 healer, 2 pure dps, 1suport etc etc

Wow man it sounds like so much fun to wait around for that condi build that we need to complete a dungeon!

Oh wait I mean no. You can run your condi build and survive in most dungeons! Hooray! It’s like ten thousand wars when all you need is a necro. Isn’t it ironic?

Don’t cha think?

Anyway no kicks for ranger’s using swords. Lets encourage those wonderful choices by keeping their sexy butts in our parties.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: TurtleDragon.3108

TurtleDragon.3108

Rangers are fine in casual runs since you’re not trying to min/max anyways otherwise you’d just run 1 war 2 ele 1 thief for everything. Teamwork, playstyle and maintaining buffs are more important than having a perfect team composition in PUGs.

They have little to no representation in speed runs (Record runs to clear) and I don’t see them being used any time soon for anything serious.

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Posted by: EcoRI.9273

EcoRI.9273

I play with bearbows all the time, they don’t bother me because I actually prefer bosses not melting and actually being a challenge.

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I play with bearbows all the time, they don’t bother me because I actually prefer bosses not melting and actually being a challenge.

Better off soloing I guess haha

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Till dps will be the betterand faster way to complete contents this game will never stop with those sh*ts… if for example condition should applyed only if u have >= x condi dmg cindi classes ( so also necro) will have a chance for be usefull, if an healer ( with new stats we can have it) will be the only way for do a content we will have other profession usefull, so 1 condi, 1 healer, 2 pure dps, 1suport etc etc

This is no Trinity-MMO.

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Posted by: Lindbur.2537

Lindbur.2537

Till dps will be the betterand faster way to complete contents this game will never stop with those sh*ts… if for example condition should applyed only if u have >= x condi dmg cindi classes ( so also necro) will have a chance for be usefull, if an healer ( with new stats we can have it) will be the only way for do a content we will have other profession usefull, so 1 condi, 1 healer, 2 pure dps, 1suport etc etc

Translation please?

A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

My problem with rangers is not what they can/can’t bring or based on a stereotype of bearbows.

My problem with rangers is that you have to really keep on top of micromanaging that pet, it’s a substantial portion of damage that is a heavy liability as it can pull agro and mess up the tactics of the group.

On top of that your best Damage weapon, and only real viable mainhand weapon is the sword. Which has a terrible auto attack that prevents dodging on command. Now you can learn how to deal with it, and there are little things you can do to make it easier, but in the end it’s quite a big hinderance and honestly I don’t trust myself with it such that I will often stick to GS if I have to swap to it to catch a dodge.

GS is of course less damage, and both are well designed weapons but the inability to initate actions while in the air in this game prevents the reactive gameplay that is required in PVE.

If they made 2 changes to rangers I’d actually really like them. 1 being important 1 being a bit more of just an option I’d like to see.

First, new mainhand weapon, Dagger would be perfect. No leaping, no Evades, just a pure DPS weapon for mainhand. Unlike Thief though make it cleave so it’s a reasonable replacement. I’d even be ok with sword still being better DPS but just have it be close so we have an option that doesn’t have such a high skill requirement to even use.

Second, I’d like to see a trait that allowed us to perma suspend the pet for a return of DPS/Functionality/something. When pets are dying too quickly it lets them still remain pretty functional instead of eating the entire loss. I have the same problem with mesmers but mesmers are a mess and I don’t think 2 changes would be enough Again though optimal should be with the pet, it’s the main mechanic, but it’d be nice to have the option to stow him away if the situation calls for it. And again this request being MUCH less important than the previous one.

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

It’s like ten thousand wars when all you need is a necro. Isn’t it ironic?

Don’t cha think?

.

0.o

<3

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Posted by: xbutcherx.3861

xbutcherx.3861

Till dps will be the betterand faster way to complete contents this game will never stop with those sh*ts… if for example condition should applyed only if u have >= x condi dmg cindi classes ( so also necro) will have a chance for be usefull, if an healer ( with new stats we can have it) will be the only way for do a content we will have other profession usefull, so 1 condi, 1 healer, 2 pure dps, 1suport etc etc

Wut?

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Posted by: DonQuack.9025

DonQuack.9025

me being an kittenhat

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
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(edited by DonQuack.9025)

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

maybe i need to find our 4 warrior 1 guardian dungeon tour where we threw the spider queen in the trash can

spoiler – we had 0 fiery greatswords

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Its baffling how toxic and unintelligent the PvE PUG community can be. For example, in AC I got kicked for explaining why I wouldn’t stack the spider queen after explianing how without 2 eles you really can’t do that anymore. He asked me if I were on shrooms and kicked me. Disgraceful.

I agree with most of your post, but this is just wrong.

Ice bow 5 as the queen hits the corner, she freezes, Ice Bow 4, unleash the Fiery rush, and boom clean kill, as long as you get that freeze it’s clean every time, otherwise you need luck that she does the old melee attack first, at least from my experience.

Only time we wipe is when we fail to freeze and don’t dodge back out of the poison and finish her at range if she even gets that attack off.

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Posted by: Silvia.9130

Silvia.9130

The solution to me should be this: this game claims that every profession can play every role as effectively. Lies. No matter how hard zerker meta dps a necro is, it will never, ever get close to war’s damage.
And true, the solution must not be “play another profession for dungeons and use the others for the rest of the game” the solution is B A L A N C E, the dark word from Black Speech that seems to terrify devs so much.
And to me balance means, at the very least,that 2 professions, in same exact armor stats, trinket, weapons, traits, everything, deal the same damage, contribuce as effectively in boosting team.

>>Lady Carlie Castle<
>>=<

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Posted by: Sins.4782

Sins.4782

No matter how hard zerker meta dps a necro is, it will never, ever get close to war’s damage.

Ahh, the irony….

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Posted by: Pibriamal.8719

Pibriamal.8719

1) Ranger is not much of a might-stacking class so Strength runes aren’t terribly helpful for them.

And? Can still use Scholar/Ranger…

So basically what I’m saying is that the 10-12% party DPS boost that a FS/Spotter ranger gives isn’t worth suffering the personal DPS loss. Just to keep things really simple, a 4war/1ele group would output 53k sustained DPS (15k + 9.5k x 4) versus a 4war/1ran group outputting 50.5k (10.5k x 4 + 8.5k). And that’s assuming 100% uptime on the Frost Spirit and the ranger’s pet.

3War/1Ran/1Ele beats 4War/1Ele though. Sure, Rangers aren’t in the most optimal comps, but there are worse comps not including Ranger as well.

But it loses to 3war/2ele. That’s the point, switching the ranger for an ele (or any other useful class in the given context) leads to an overall boost in damage. That’s compared to the other two “DPS support” classes (warrior and engineer) who have a much better ratio of damage gained versus damage lost.

And 3war/2ele loses to 2ele/war/ran/guard. Why would you switch a ranger in for an ele when you can get rid of an extra warrior?

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

1) Ranger is not much of a might-stacking class so Strength runes aren’t terribly helpful for them.

And? Can still use Scholar/Ranger…

So basically what I’m saying is that the 10-12% party DPS boost that a FS/Spotter ranger gives isn’t worth suffering the personal DPS loss. Just to keep things really simple, a 4war/1ele group would output 53k sustained DPS (15k + 9.5k x 4) versus a 4war/1ran group outputting 50.5k (10.5k x 4 + 8.5k). And that’s assuming 100% uptime on the Frost Spirit and the ranger’s pet.

3War/1Ran/1Ele beats 4War/1Ele though. Sure, Rangers aren’t in the most optimal comps, but there are worse comps not including Ranger as well.

But it loses to 3war/2ele. That’s the point, switching the ranger for an ele (or any other useful class in the given context) leads to an overall boost in damage. That’s compared to the other two “DPS support” classes (warrior and engineer) who have a much better ratio of damage gained versus damage lost.

And 3war/2ele loses to 2ele/war/ran/guard. Why would you switch a ranger in for an ele when you can get rid of an extra warrior?

Because then that would lose to 3ele/war/guard. I don’t think you understand what I am trying to get at here.

Moreover, that is assuming everyone is running a meta DPS spec. A pug ranger is going to have a very small overall DPS contribution because their damage contribution is primarily multiplicative, whereas the warrior’s power bonus is additive, meaning it actually gets bigger the lower the original base power is. Let’s say you get a pug full of PHIWs in full sets of the new TVH gear. With zero power and precision stat, they will hit somewhere in the 1k DPS range on a generous estimate. A ranger’s AOE fury + Spotter will boost their damage by about 14%, and Frost Spirit will be 7%, so it’s an extra 20%, give or take, meaning that crappy no-damage pug gets a damage boost of 20%, or 200 damage. Meanwhile you’re giving up almost half your own potential DPS by not running a ele, which is going to be a lot more than the 800 damage you just boosted the rest of your party by.

Of course, you can still play a ranger and do well and finish the dungeon in a reasonable time with your own DPS alone, but that’s exactly what a PHIW would say.

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

I wonder how much more the meta can alienate players before something drastic happens?
Also who’s next on the chopping block?

Registered Altaholic
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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I wonder how much more the meta can alienate players before something drastic happens?
Also who’s next on the chopping block?

Could always make friends, get a guild, and run whatever the hell you want crazy I know.

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

I wonder how much more the meta can alienate players before something drastic happens?
Also who’s next on the chopping block?

Could always make friends, get a guild, and run whatever the hell you want crazy I know.

Heh. You see a Ranger on my sig? I’m just wondering if this Meta vs Phiw controversy will come to a head. The more exclusive things become the more hated the meta will become. As tensions rise, the likelyhood of something snapping rises as well.
Just need a decent sized community of players to decide to lash out, and a kittenstorm shall erupt.
Of course that could be my taste for drama talking. But I have noticed that there is a growing desire for something to change. On and off the forums, even major community figures like WoodenPotatoes have expressed discontent, so I imagine things will only escalate till something happens.

Registered Altaholic
Part-time Kittenposter

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Its baffling how toxic and unintelligent the PvE PUG community can be. For example, in AC I got kicked for explaining why I wouldn’t stack the spider queen after explianing how without 2 eles you really can’t do that anymore. He asked me if I were on shrooms and kicked me. Disgraceful.

I agree with most of your post, but this is just wrong.

Ice bow 5 as the queen hits the corner, she freezes, Ice Bow 4, unleash the Fiery rush, and boom clean kill, as long as you get that freeze it’s clean every time, otherwise you need luck that she does the old melee attack first, at least from my experience.

Only time we wipe is when we fail to freeze and don’t dodge back out of the poison and finish her at range if she even gets that attack off.

Oh I see. I’m not really all that great of an ele to be honest especially with compicated button pressing, so I always assumed that you’d need one to freeze the spider and while the other one fiery rushes, but I guess you learn something new every day! Thanks for at least explaining to me why I was wrong, the other two people that singled out that comment weren’t as courteous about that.

Still though, its really kittenty for someone to kick me like that in pug, when they could’ve explained what you just expained. And if its not a speedclear, then why stack and risk wiping at all?

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

(edited by nearlight.3064)

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Posted by: Lindbur.2537

Lindbur.2537

The stereotypical pug rarely understands why they stack, tends not to use appropriate utilities for the situation, and when something goes terribly wrong they promptly pick a scapegoat for their class and kick him rather than reflecting on their own incompetence.

And when you tell them what to do they never listen.

A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”

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Posted by: Tarasicodissa.7084

Tarasicodissa.7084

I played recently with a guy who had ranger as main and necro as alt. I was very impressed by his play, he was doing pretty well plus using all the utilities available exclusively to his professions very wisely. Glad I had him there as he was much more skilled and helpful than many others, who played professions commonly accepted in dungeons. I would never kick anyone based solely on his class/amount of AP/anything of that kind. If I see a 600 AP bearbow though…

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Posted by: DonQuack.9025

DonQuack.9025

me being a kittenhat

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

(edited by DonQuack.9025)

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

I wonder how much more the meta can alienate players before something drastic happens?
Also who’s next on the chopping block?

Honestly, I’m not even sure the meta can be fixed with the introduction of TVH armor. Originally it seemed basic enough: change the proportions of damage deflected via active defense to damage sustained through frequent attacks, and then passive defenses/heavier investment in active defenses provides higher damage via longer sustained engagement and lower downed frequency.

But TVH armor changes that. You can balance a 50% drop in offense with sustainability. You can’t balance a 250% drop in offense. There’s no way, even by measure of healing potential or by localized aggro management, that a 250% drop in offensive potential will ever be fair. You’d have to turn the game into a full blown trinity and give enemies several times their current HP to possibly compensate for the lack of action that TVH takes.

So, on some level, the system has to be broken now. I can’t fix TVH armor, so the game must be unbalanced in that regard.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Still though, its really kittenty for someone to kick me like that in pug, when they could’ve explained what you just expained. And if its not a speedclear, then why stack and risk wiping at all?

Firstly in a pug you risk wiping no matter what.

Firstly.fively its not someone its some people as said person wasnt alone in his wanting to kick you.

Firstly.sixly Just because pug doesnt mean I want to have to teach every single party I join or that I want/ have the time for a 15min-20min run to turn into an hour.

Secondly I can only presume but

8/10 people I give advice to berate me for telling them how to play their profession.
2/10 are newbies with less than 500ap who think I am some sort of God because my advice works.

Rather than stopping and spending 5minutes arguing with someone I rather kick em.

On that point. Until someone on the forums said so would you have believe said guy if he told you how to do it? You seemed awfully sure of yourself before.

Or perhaps he may have thought if you didnt know how to take on the first mediocre boss of the dungeon how on earth would you know the rest of the dungeon?

Another strat is simply let the puller lure out her spit. It has like a 13s recharge. More than enough for 1 ele+1 other to melt her down much less a full party.

btw if I hadnt said anything( assuming no one else here picked up on what you said) I doubt you would have double checked.

I got into a conversation with this one guy who posted an LFG for SE p1 saying heavies only, and had 1 guard and 3 warriors waitingfor another heavy. I asked one of them why they said heavies only, and he said because he could and because a guardian with 4 warriors is best DPS in the game because of empower+100blades. I mean, that was absurd to me that people can be so uninformed. I explained to him that 2 eles, a warrior, a guard, and then a thief, would definetly out DPS that party comp no questions asked. He said I was stupid and wrong and then blocked me. Yey.

I personally would have to say he is more correct. Majority of thieves I meet are sb p/p crap builds. Majority of guards are staff AH campers. Ele’s rarely drop conjures and dont blast might much less anything else. 9/10 I will hit get a warrior running a meta or close to build. as evidenced by sheer number of the same banners.not only

Non-pug premade group. Oh yea youre right but I doubt he was talking about that or you since pugs are your primary topic.

Said person may be inflexible but you are equally inflexible as evidenced by posts.

I do believe the word is

Why do people who make such bold claims say so without doing any research to back up their claims?

Its baffling how toxic and unintelligent the PvE PUG community can be… I mean, that was absurd to me that people can be so uninformed.

Irony

Don Quack, I don’t know who you are to be honest, or whether or not your a prominent member of this PvE community, but still I admit that I was wrong, can you please try to not push the rest of my words into the ground?

And I do agree with much of your post, other than the cold slap of irony part at the end. I don’t pug with ele anymore because no one cares about the reasons you just said. I do dungeons because they give money, plain and simple, theres all that is to it, and I play the “meta” spec on whichever class I use. Its just disenheartening when 1/10 pugs will stack the spider queen adamantly, when I really don’t care about getting a world record time, when killing her legit takes all of 15 more seconds. I don’t play heavy classes, and I’m honestly sick of balance in this game makes them feel OP in every game mode.

Anyway Don Quack, thanks for making me feel completly unwelcome in these forums. There were only a handful of PvE posters here before that actually did make me feel welcome. I’ll refrain from posted my wrong and stupid experiences on this forum so you or any other like minded person doesn’t alienate me out of what is probably GW2’s worst game mode.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

I would just ignore him if I were you. He just decided to talk down to you even though nothing you have said is wrong. You are free to voice your opinions and frustrations with pugs. I dont see the point in belittling someone for doing that. But then some people really do have no etiquette.

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Posted by: DonQuack.9025

DonQuack.9025

Im a nobody as such I use my privileges as a nobody to trollbe aggressive dissect your postbe an kitten.

I made you feel unwelcome? Terribly sorry. Im sure the masses feel welcome here with the PHIW, Zerker, L2P banter.

Majority of that second post was to simply show what said person may have been thinking. The “slap” in your face was in a hope you would take it to heart the irony of what you said.

Ugh 5years out of the infantry and I still cant talk to you civilians properly therefore

I am sorry I was wrong in what I did. I shant do it again.

Ill leave the correcting and such to the legends. Infact to save some humil ill edit posts

<3<3<3 have some smilies too

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

(edited by DonQuack.9025)

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Anyway Don Quack, thanks for making me feel completly unwelcome in these forums. There were only a handful of PvE posters here before that actually did make me feel welcome. I’ll refrain from posted my wrong and stupid experiences on this forum so you or any other like minded person doesn’t alienate me out of what is probably GW2’s worst game mode.

You’re not alone in feeling this way just a FYI. I was going to reply to your reply earlier, and Duals, but everything I typed I just knew was going to get me flamed so I refrained. Unfortunately it’s really not the most friendly community as a whole, though there are a lot of good people here.

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Posted by: DonQuack.9025

DonQuack.9025

being a kittenhat

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

(edited by DonQuack.9025)

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Posted by: Korossive.7085

Korossive.7085

- Group wiped
- Hunter ran away, his dumb tank pet found something to aggro
- Hunter waits afk, were all dead but in combat

HOW CAN YOU NOT BOOT THIS HUNTER TO HELL?!

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

I cant help it.

Perspective. Im sure the unintelligent and toxic pve pug community feels welcome. Especially since Im part of it.

I actually just read your post fully. Had to skim doing charts.

Stupid experiences? Post em.
Wrong? I sure as heck wont call anyone out on anything thats wrong again. Ive learned my lesson.
Oddly enough this feels almost exactly like when I tell a person ingame a strat and they start berating me about how im ruining their game and that they will phtw.

Even more oddly enough. If the person you wrote the ele thing to was a forumer and posted your convo in that other thread people would have been lolling.

So we spend months trying to repair our reputation and you come along and literally scare people off.

GG

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: DonQuack.9025

DonQuack.9025

Ducks are notorious for not learning simple things. I never had a reputation/never got the memo.

Ill keep quiet. Ive learned.

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

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Posted by: LeoWolfish.8917

LeoWolfish.8917

- Group wiped
- Hunter ran away, his dumb tank pet found something to aggro
- Hunter waits afk, were all dead but in combat

HOW CAN YOU NOT BOOT THIS HUNTER TO HELL?!

- Sees “Halp me” pop up during an open world event.
- Runs over to revive
-Gets attacked
-Fights back then has to rally
Tries to revive again repeat about ten times
-Knocked out completely and watches the remainder of the fight.

Failed rescue attempt was fail and the best bit was I have know idea if I was trying to review the actually person or someone next to them xD. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an npc though.

(And with that interruption she now leaves this thread to continue)- Mesmer.

Astra Ferndale – female Charr Mesmer of the Ash legion.

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Posted by: Dakota.4591

Dakota.4591

Rangers get kicked because of bearbows. Too many people have too many bad experiences with bearbows to give the rest a chance. Whether it’s spamming the knockback button to knock the target out of that pistol whip or hundred blades, or just standing waaaaaaaaay the hell over there going pew pew pew because their full set of nomad’s gear isn’t defensive enough for them, too many rangers have been too much a drawback, and too many people just say “Screw it, Never Again.”

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

It isn’t just bearbows. If a ranger tries to go into a bunch of trash with a sword and spotter in a bad group there will be no defense, not enough dps, and the ranger goes down. A thief can put out blinds, a warrior can swap to hammer, guardians have plenty of options, but a ranger has to take it all on evades. Compared to a warrior, a ranger has to give up far more to get any sort of resilience in a bad situation.