(edited by dlonie.6547)
Report 2 stealers
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So there are 3 systems in question (funny as we think about it how the thread has mutated)
1) Owner with instance destruction
2) Second to Kick.
3) Majority to kick.
I’m as a general rule against ‘owner’ systems because they’re prone to abuse, giving too much power to the ‘owner’. Still let’s try to work out what can be abused in each system.
1) (owner)
Owner has pretty great leeway to kick others and generally cannot be kicked. Owner has a very large amount of abusable power, and there’s no recourse outside of GM intervention.
2) (second)
Any 2 people working in concert can kick anyone and seize control of the instance. No single person can wreak havok (as in version 1), but 2 people working in concert can do whatever they want (if they’re fast enough)
3) (majority)
It’s extremely difficult in the case of a full group to seize an instance. You need to get enough people in all at once, and in such a way that the balance doesn’t shift to keep them from kicking. Parties of 2 or less are vulnerable to a concentrated attack, but there realistically has to be a line somewehre, and you’re only gonna get your party reduced to 2 in some pretty unusual circumstances.
~~~
This doesn’t of course address the question of how prevalent problems with the issue are, but we don’t have any real numbers to look at.
So there are 3 systems in question (funny as we think about it how the thread has mutated)
1) Owner with instance destruction
2) Second to Kick.
3) Majority to kick.I’m as a general rule against ‘owner’ systems because they’re prone to abuse, giving too much power to the ‘owner’. Still let’s try to work out what can be abused in each system.
1) (owner)
Owner has pretty great leeway to kick others and generally cannot be kicked. Owner has a very large amount of abusable power, and there’s no recourse outside of GM intervention.2) (second)
Any 2 people working in concert can kick anyone and seize control of the instance. No single person can wreak havok (as in version 1), but 2 people working in concert can do whatever they want (if they’re fast enough)3) (majority)
It’s extremely difficult in the case of a full group to seize an instance. You need to get enough people in all at once, and in such a way that the balance doesn’t shift to keep them from kicking. Parties of 2 or less are vulnerable to a concentrated attack, but there realistically has to be a line somewehre, and you’re only gonna get your party reduced to 2 in some pretty unusual circumstances.~~~
This doesn’t of course address the question of how prevalent problems with the issue are, but we don’t have any real numbers to look at.
Look in the game, there are on almost a daily basis a group of people that got kicked at end game, because they wanted to sell, or a childish behavior where they simply threw them out because they needed spots for other people like half through a dungeon……..
Glad you took my idea (or atleast reaaaally close to my idea) as an example in page 1, this is probably the best idea and qualified for any situation, if you are in WvW and having a group is not nessecary but needed and kick needs to go fast, or if you have used 30-40+ minutes of your time to kill every boss legit and need to rely on the people getting in……..
I don’t remember having any huge issue with the previous party model, nor have I personally seen any….I do belive it when people say that there probably where issues, but I have personally not seen a single example of that…..(if you have please send me a PM of a video or pic/something…..) This new system does not only allow people to throw other people out while finishing a dungeon……Because, why should they use their time on finishing one, when they can get in at the very last second and steal it, this new system gave these people a lot of ground to work on…….which evidently have caused a lot of problems/threads etc……(Btw, please no lecturing what I should have done again, it is rather hard to find 3 people to afk with me for no reason, and even if they do, guilds selling paths have repeatedly shown that people still can get kicked, they just need to give out 5g to recieve around 20-28 back).
I dont know if it simply is because you dont/cant do solo runs that you dont see this as a problem, but it is, and also a pretty huge one, beside the fact that even if you don’t see soloing a dungeon as being part of Gw2, these people still abuse it in alot of other things as described above, and on page 1…. So you can identify yourself with a problem like this…..
(edited by zengara.8301)
Like Windsagio said there’s no way to really determine which party system would be best without a highly structured summary or collection of data. Anet’s stance is that they don’t really care about selling paths as long as no exploits are involved, and similar to scams via mail and player-player trading they’ll move to take action against scammers based on evidence from an agent but that’s about it.
Like Windsagio said there’s no way to really determine which party system would be best without a highly structured summary or collection of data. Anet’s stance is that they don’t really care about selling paths as long as no exploits are involved, and similar to scams via mail and player-player trading they’ll move to take action against scammers based on evidence from an agent but that’s about it.
Dont think it requires a highly structured summary to see which one of the systems that ended with having bigger scams in it, just looking at the forum/in game based on the evolvement of scams in the game. Besides, I requested different parties in a game like this, it is not like you could steal and sell paths in other MMO´s since end dungeon is not that important as in Guild Wars………
I requested a dynamic system, based on the same as commander tag, that you could give each party system a color based on what you are doing (as an example, if you wvw the kick needs to be fast if 1 logs off, and you don’t rely on them in any way, and in dungeons, it is important to rely on people you dont know, which is rather hard.)
I don’t remember having any huge issue with the previous party model, nor have I personally seen any….I do belive it when people say that there probably where issues, but I have personally not seen a single example of that…..(if you have please send me a PM of a video or pic/something…..)
The old system was really horrible and needed to go. How it worked was the player who first entered the dungeon was the “owner” of the instance, and if they left the party for any reason, the instance would shut down and kick everyone out.
So, if the owner drops party, gets kicked, dc’s and doesn’t return, etc, the instance and all progress would be lost.
There was no indication of who the opener was, either, so if a party member disappears and someone rushes the kick, it may be the instance owner and bye-bye dungeon.
The behavior was completely unintuitive, so players who hadn’t been warned about or experienced it would sometimes drop party, and unwittingly kill the instance for their party members.
Sometimes people were just stupid, like after the time I trio’d (as owner) Arah p4 with some guildies, only to accidentally click “Leave Party” instead of “Kick from Party” when a buyer refused to pay…I’m suprised Bra and Alq still talk to me after that one >.>
As far as risks, it wasn’t much different. Two people could still join and grief you. Only difference was that there was no profit motive to steal & sell. Sellers were the main targets, as griefers would just join and kill seller instances all day. Man, I have so much heitred for those guys.
(edited by dlonie.6547)
Like Windsagio said there’s no way to really determine which party system would be best without a highly structured summary or collection of data. Anet’s stance is that they don’t really care about selling paths as long as no exploits are involved, and similar to scams via mail and player-player trading they’ll move to take action against scammers based on evidence from an agent but that’s about it.
Dont think it requires a highly structured summary to see which one of the systems that ended with having bigger scams in it, just looking at the forum/in game based on the evolvement of scams in the game. Besides, I requested different parties in a game like this, it is not like you could steal and sell paths in other MMO´s since end dungeon is not that important as in Guild Wars………
I requested a dynamic system, based on the same as commander tag, that you could give each party system a color based on what you are doing (as an example, if you wvw the kick needs to be fast if 1 logs off, and you don’t rely on them in any way, and in dungeons, it is important to rely on people you dont know, which is rather hard.)
Here’s a thought:
. They absolutely and exactly know the scale and extent of complaints under each system. We do not, but they do.
. They also have no idealogical connection to any given system.
. This the system we’ve ended up with
The dots aren’t hard to connect.
Like Windsagio said there’s no way to really determine which party system would be best without a highly structured summary or collection of data. Anet’s stance is that they don’t really care about selling paths as long as no exploits are involved, and similar to scams via mail and player-player trading they’ll move to take action against scammers based on evidence from an agent but that’s about it.
Dont think it requires a highly structured summary to see which one of the systems that ended with having bigger scams in it, just looking at the forum/in game based on the evolvement of scams in the game. Besides, I requested different parties in a game like this, it is not like you could steal and sell paths in other MMO´s since end dungeon is not that important as in Guild Wars………
I requested a dynamic system, based on the same as commander tag, that you could give each party system a color based on what you are doing (as an example, if you wvw the kick needs to be fast if 1 logs off, and you don’t rely on them in any way, and in dungeons, it is important to rely on people you dont know, which is rather hard.)
Here’s a thought:
. They absolutely and exactly know the scale and extent of complaints under each system. We do not, but they do.
. They also have no idealogical connection to any given system.
. This the system we’ve ended up with
The dots aren’t hard to connect.
They also have known for a LONG time that arah have multiple bug issues, Necrid Bolt, avoiding of 3 bosses that could literally been stopped by just putting a few invisible walls on a spot or even monsters etc…………
It is simply not valid that they know the count of the problems when it is clear to the rest of the players that they do not react on them.
I don’t remember having any huge issue with the previous party model, nor have I personally seen any….I do belive it when people say that there probably where issues, but I have personally not seen a single example of that…..(if you have please send me a PM of a video or pic/something…..)
The old system was really horrible and needed to go. How it worked was the player who first entered the dungeon was the “owner” of the instance, and if they left the party for any reason, the instance would shut down and kick everyone out.
So, if the owner drops party, gets kicked, dc’s and doesn’t return, etc, the instance and all progress would be lost.
There was no indication of who the opener was, either, so if a party member disappears and someone rushes the kick, it may be the instance owner and bye-bye dungeon.
The behavior was completely unintuitive, so players who hadn’t been warned about or experienced it would sometimes drop party, and unwittingly kill the instance for their party members.
Sometimes people were just stupid, like after the time I trio’d (as owner) Arah p4 with some guildies, only to accidentally click “Leave Party” instead of “Kick from Party” when a buyer refused to pay…I’m suprised Bra and Alq still talk to me after that one >.>
As far as risks, it wasn’t much different. Two people could still join and grief you. Only difference was that there was no profit motive to steal & sell. Sellers were the main targets, as griefers would just join and kill seller instances all day. Man, I have so much heitred for those guys.
As I said, I believe you when you say that there were problems, I simply have not seen a single one yet, there were probably troll people who threw path sellers out and DC=instance dropped, thats why I want the dynamic party system- Both of these party systems are horrific and in worst case they both really are bad.
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