Guild Wars 2

I think ppl expect to join raid for the first time and finish entire wings…I don’t understand why people say they can’t find groups….maybe this is true only if you try to raid in the morning…..2 or 3 times we took a newbie from LFG and cleared W1 and W2 and half W3….we practically carried him through raid just because we didn;t want to go 9-man…..so don’t tell me there are not ppl raiding. Go and look on LFG……..you can find around 50 ppl queued every day, at every moment. Raids should stay as they are. They were not meant for everyone til the beginning, they said it. They said that you will need to be more than a casual used to follow a commander around map.

Dominik.5162:

Blaeys.3102:

maddoctor.2738:

Maybe the Raid will be inside the Foundry!

As long as they insist on the restrictive raid model they currently employ, they really need to stay away from popular lore-based landmarks/settings/scenarios – and definitely stay away from anything to do with the story the current game is trying to tell.

I realize that is an unpopular opinion among a subset of the community, but it is the situation they have created for themselves if they want to avoid alienating or frustrating a sizeable number of their players.

They need to stay away from nothing, the claim that raids can’t have interesting story/lore connected to them is beyond hilarious.

You think it’s a coincidence that the first three raid wings are more like the impression of a story rather than an actual detailed one and no major villains (not even Caudecus) appear in them, let alone are bosses? Honestly, I feel like the average dynamic event has more lore than the three raids combined.

It seems very clear to me that ArenaNet has steered clear of doing anything major in their raids because of the exclusivity issue (even the first appearance of Lazarus takes place in Season 3, they didn’t even have him make a cameo in the raid).

I think there would be a lot of salty people if Lazarus is killed in a future raid, or if we finally get to enter the Wizard’s Tower but only as a raid.

cranos.5913:

Blaeys.3102:

maddoctor.2738:

Maybe the Raid will be inside the Foundry!

As long as they insist on the restrictive raid model they currently employ, they really need to stay away from popular lore-based landmarks/settings/scenarios – and definitely stay away from anything to do with the story the current game is trying to tell.

I realize that is an unpopular opinion among a subset of the community, but it is the situation they have created for themselves if they want to avoid alienating or frustrating a sizeable number of their players.

So it has to be a 10 man fractal? Totally disconnected from anything to do with Tyria and with no real story behind it? Sounds boring.

That’s what the “dungeon” community is getting atm. Fractals – five player encounters which take place outside of the world completely and most without any dialogue or story at all. It’s why fractals is a bad replacement for dungeons (How much dev time did they waste reiterating the agony system multiple times now because of how poorly designed it is?).

I’m honestly baffled why GW2 doesn’t have different raid difficulties like much more hardcore MMOs like WoW does. An easier five or ten player raid would likely be a very popular feature with a bigger audience and it would ease a lot of pressure on raids to avoid popular or exciting lore. It’s a system that works incredibly well in successful MMOs like WoW, who learned the hard way that designing a hard raid ends up restricting some content to the minority of players (like how a minority of players ever killed Illidan before the expansion was legacy content).

Shiren.9532:

I’m honestly baffled why GW2 doesn’t have different raid difficulties like much more hardcore MMOs like WoW does. An easier five or ten player raid would likely be a very popular feature with a bigger audience and it would ease a lot of pressure on raids to avoid popular or exciting lore. It’s a system that works incredibly well in successful MMOs like WoW, who learned the hard way that designing a hard raid ends up restricting some content to the minority of players (like how a minority of players ever killed Illidan before the expansion was legacy content).

Does it work so well in MMOs like WoW? I doubt it. Its subscription numbers don’t back up that claim and I know both the things I’ve seen myself as well as what other raiders told me after I quit. Not pretty stuff, because the two raid sizes didn’t get along well and LFR massively drove down the average skill level, which made it hard to find raiders for the hard modes at all.

CptAurellian.9537:

Shiren.9532:

I’m honestly baffled why GW2 doesn’t have different raid difficulties like much more hardcore MMOs like WoW does. An easier five or ten player raid would likely be a very popular feature with a bigger audience and it would ease a lot of pressure on raids to avoid popular or exciting lore. It’s a system that works incredibly well in successful MMOs like WoW, who learned the hard way that designing a hard raid ends up restricting some content to the minority of players (like how a minority of players ever killed Illidan before the expansion was legacy content).

Does it work so well in MMOs like WoW? I doubt it. Its subscription numbers don’t back up that claim and I know both the things I’ve seen myself as well as what other raiders told me after I quit. Not pretty stuff, because the two raid sizes didn’t get along well and LFR massively drove down the average skill level, which made it hard to find raiders for the hard modes at all.

If not for LFR, WoW would have been even emptier now. It was other mistakes (as well as just the game getting stale after so many years) that decreased the numbers of players.
And it’s still doing much better than GW2 at it’s peak (and let’s be honest, GW2 is now well beyond that peak, currently on a steady decline trend).

Your claim about LFR is little more than guesswork without any reasonable foundation. We’ll never find a final answer due to the lack of control and replication, but subscription data from those times definitely does not help to hold up your claim.

CptAurellian.9537:

Your claim about LFR is little more than guesswork without any reasonable foundation. We’ll never find a final answer due to the lack of control and replication, but subscription data from those times definitely does not help to hold up your claim.

You might want to take a closer look at that data you mentioned, because it seems to me you didn’t.

Constant growth while there was only one mode of raiding (Classic and BC), more or less stagnation when they introduced easymodes (WotLK), constant decline with the usual short bumps from addon releases ever since Cataclysm, with which they introduced LFR. That’s certainly a strong point for the effectiveness of easymodes and LFR.

Data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

CptAurellian.9537:

Constant growth while there was only one mode of raiding (Classic and BC), more or less stagnation when they introduced easymodes (WotLK), constant decline with the usual short bumps from addon releases ever since Cataclysm, with which they introduced LFR. That’s certainly a strong point for the effectiveness of easymodes and LFR.

Data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

There’s probably a lot of confounding variables in there. I’m sure you would see subscriber decreases in GW2 too, even though there’s only one mode.

Still, wow is a much different game than GW2, and I generally dislike the LFR comparisons. What works for one may not work for the other. In particular, wow content only needs to last a couple of years, while GW2 content needs to last the life of the game.

Absurdo.8309:

There’s probably a lot of confounding variables in there. I’m sure you would see subscriber decreases in GW2 too, even though there’s only one mode.

Still, wow is a much different game than GW2, and I generally dislike the LFR comparisons. What works for one may not work for the other. In particular, wow content only needs to last a couple of years, while GW2 content needs to last the life of the game.

I won’t dispute anything of that, because it’s pretty close to my ideas. As I said, we’ll probably never definitely know why certain things happened, as we simply don’t have a proper control experiment. There’s just one kind of argument that I question and that’s the kind “LFR/easymodes/whatever worked so well in WoW, we need it here”, because there’s no data to support such claims.

CptAurellian.9537:

I won’t dispute anything of that, because it’s pretty close to my ideas. As I said, we’ll probably never definitely know why certain things happened, as we simply don’t have a proper control experiment. There’s just one kind of argument that I question and that’s the kind “LFR/easymodes/whatever worked so well in WoW, we need it here”, because there’s no data to support such claims.

They are obviously worked well in WoW because they are still in game, they being kept there by developers who obviously have all statistical data available, and this is a model from most successful PvE raiding game from all times. Even now.
So, this is pretty much proven. Feel free to bring other successful raiding games, without easy modes and with popularity even slightly close to WoW one.

Rednik.3809:

CptAurellian.9537:

I won’t dispute anything of that, because it’s pretty close to my ideas. As I said, we’ll probably never definitely know why certain things happened, as we simply don’t have a proper control experiment. There’s just one kind of argument that I question and that’s the kind “LFR/easymodes/whatever worked so well in WoW, we need it here”, because there’s no data to support such claims.

They are obviously worked well in WoW because they are still in game, they being kept there by developers who obviously have all statistical data available, and this is a model from most successful PvE raiding game from all times. Even now.
So, this is pretty much proven. Feel free to bring other successful raiding games, without easy modes and with popularity even slightly close to WoW one.

WoW also has increased level caps with each expansion. Should gw2 do the same? Wow is the most successful MMO of all time.

This line of discussion is, well, pointless. Argue why your position would be good in Guild wars 2 (and, in a thread that’s relevant to your topic).

Everyone remembers that not everyone uses gw2eff, yeah? Those percentages are only representative of gw2eff users. It is also not taking into account the thousands of players no longer playing but made a gw2eff account one day.

Redo those numbers on only people that own HoT. Free players do not really count towards raid pop as they cannot even try them. And then make a program that tries every possible player active in game.

Also, LI are going to be more accurate since they are not a spendable commodity like shards.

Absurdo.8309:

WoW also has increased level caps with each expansion. Should gw2 do the same? Wow is the most successful MMO of all time.

This line of discussion is, well, pointless. Argue why your position would be good in Guild wars 2 (and, in a thread that’s relevant to your topic).

Level caps have nothing in common with raid difficulty model, so no, your argument is perfectly pointless.
And I’m already argued, with practical example from most successful raiding game ever. And everything I see against my point is empty theories, based purely on “I think so, therefore I’m right and no changes needed”.

Rednik.3809:

Absurdo.8309:

WoW also has increased level caps with each expansion. Should gw2 do the same? Wow is the most successful MMO of all time.

This line of discussion is, well, pointless. Argue why your position would be good in Guild wars 2 (and, in a thread that’s relevant to your topic).

Level caps have nothing in common with raid difficulty model, so no, your argument is perfectly pointless.

All of WoW’s Legacy Raids now and in the future will disagree with you.

By their very design, the Raids in GW2 which are still such a small sub-set of PvE in the game differ profoundly from WoW’s Raid model.

Pompeia.5483:

Also, LI are going to be more accurate since they are not a spendable commodity like shards.

You need a lot of Legendary Insights to craft the Legendary armor so those will stop being accurate when the full Armor is released.

I hope posters in the last few pages realized how completely off-topic they’ve gone.

maddoctor.2738:

I hope posters in the last few pages realized how completely off-topic they’ve gone.

It seems to be the Rule for Raid Threads, in this Forum, to get derailed just to argue about the same Topic over and over, without any Progress on either Side.

BTT: I think we will see a new Raid(Wing) in two or three Months. From the AMA it was said that the new Raid Wing is coming quite nicely so it is probably mostly done and they are in the Boss Testing Phase with some of the Guilds here.

How Big the Raid will be is another Question. The first Raid had three Wings but this doesn’t mean that other Raids also will be this big. The Devs said that they make the Raids as big as it is logical for the Story they want to tell there, meaning there can be Raids with just one Wing or even with 5 Wings ( even if thats unlikely ), if we see the Colelction of the second Legendary Armor Tier than its likely that we will have a very small Raid with just one Wing.

Also where do we Raid then? We don’t know where the next one will be. Could be somewhere on the Fire Islands, the Wizards Tower or even Thunderhead Keep. Or it could be north of DR, we don’t really know, there may be clues in the LS but if so I haven’t found them. So where do you think the next Raid will be?

Walhalla.5473:

Or it could be north of DR, we don’t really know, there may be clues in the LS but if so I haven’t found them. So where do you think the next Raid will be?

I don’t know where will it be, but I sure want the next Raid to be in the Foundry of Failed Creations. Something (or someone) is opening the Door of Komalie again and we go in there to stop them from re-activating the Foundry. Maybe Primordus or one of his lieutenants.

Razor.9872:

Ranael.6423:

Crystal Reid.2481:

A few development updates for you guys since there are some things I can clarify here.

While Forsaken Thicket was 3 wings that encompassed a complete story line, that does not mean all raids will be 3 wings. We’ll do that where it makes sense, and sometimes it will make sense to release a stand alone raid with 1 wing if we think we have an interesting story to tell there that doesn’t need to be stretched out over multiple releases.

Sorry to hijack your answer but if you think you can break the cycle by having a raid only composed of one wing, do you also think that now bosses could also not live in circular rooms/platforms ?

Slothasor? Trio? Escort?

Sabetha is technically octagonal >.>

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t know where will it be, but I sure want the next Raid to be in the Foundry of Failed Creations. Something (or someone) is opening the Door of Komalie again and we go in there to stop them from re-activating the Foundry. Maybe Primordus or one of his lieutenants.

I was thinking this as well. It would be supremely badkitten, and I seriously hope if the next raid isn’t there that they make a future one there.

Rising Dusk.2408:

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t know where will it be, but I sure want the next Raid to be in the Foundry of Failed Creations. Something (or someone) is opening the Door of Komalie again and we go in there to stop them from re-activating the Foundry. Maybe Primordus or one of his lieutenants.

I was thinking this as well. It would be supremely badkitten, and I seriously hope if the next raid isn’t there that they make a future one there.

It seems extremely likely that it will be somewhere in the fire islands at least, considering in the last living story episode during the hologram test Taimi says “You still don’t have the high score. That belongs to Cami, one of the Fire Islands raiding party leaders.” Not much reason to have a raiding party there without a raid =P and there’s obviously a lot of real estate to expand into there.

I hadn’t actually registered the use of the term “raiding party” as being related to raids, and instead assumed they meant like the first group on the islands. It would be pretty fabulous if we found Cami’s body at the entrance to the Door of Komalie, though, and had to bust in to stop whatever was trying to come out.

hype intensifies

Rising Dusk.2408:

I hadn’t actually registered the use of the term “raiding party” as being related to raids, and instead assumed they meant like the first group on the islands. It would be pretty fabulous if we found Cami’s body at the entrance to the Door of Komalie, though, and had to bust in to stop whatever was trying to come out.

hype intensifies

And then our “friend” Lazarus will use his newfound power from the bloodstone to re-seal the gate. OR he might use it to OPEN the gate so we go inside for some other purpose. Maybe Primordus will go inside and start making Titan Destroyers to conquer Tyria. Endless possibilities

PSA: There’s a new portal in the Lion’s Arch Aerodrome. Currently blocked, but THE HYPE TRAIN IS ROLLING OUT OF THE STATION, ALL ABOARD

https://gyazo.com/9763b91369cae84d7269b8a7c737af75

I think it’s just a Halloween raid designed to get casual players into raiding.

maddoctor.2738:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I hadn’t actually registered the use of the term “raiding party” as being related to raids, and instead assumed they meant like the first group on the islands. It would be pretty fabulous if we found Cami’s body at the entrance to the Door of Komalie, though, and had to bust in to stop whatever was trying to come out.

hype intensifies

And then our “friend” Lazarus will use his newfound power from the bloodstone to re-seal the gate. OR he might use it to OPEN the gate so we go inside for some other purpose. Maybe Primordus will go inside and start making Titan Destroyers to conquer Tyria. Endless possibilities

Another reason raids need multiple difficulty tiers or modes – it would allow them to incorporate content or zones (like the above examples) that tie more heavily into lore and story.

The current model doesn’t allow for this kind of thing without causing more issues than it solves.

Let’s keep irrelevant side-stories to the raids. It’s a perfect means to maybe finish some loose ends from Guild Wars 1 that are utterly unrelated to the main story in GW2.

Never should the main story require any raid to get a full understanding of.

Sykper.6583:

Let’s keep irrelevant side-stories to the raids. It’s a perfect means to maybe finish some loose ends from Guild Wars 1 that are utterly unrelated to the main story in GW2.

Never should the main story require any raid to get a full understanding of.

I think they also have to be careful with anything that is heavily tied into lore from the first game. That is usually something that has mass appeal and generates excitement from multiple groups .Placing that kind of content in raids – which are admittedly designed and tuned for a smaller group – would create some justifiable ill feelings of exclusion among many players.

Blaeys.3102:

maddoctor.2738:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I hadn’t actually registered the use of the term “raiding party” as being related to raids, and instead assumed they meant like the first group on the islands. It would be pretty fabulous if we found Cami’s body at the entrance to the Door of Komalie, though, and had to bust in to stop whatever was trying to come out.

hype intensifies

And then our “friend” Lazarus will use his newfound power from the bloodstone to re-seal the gate. OR he might use it to OPEN the gate so we go inside for some other purpose. Maybe Primordus will go inside and start making Titan Destroyers to conquer Tyria. Endless possibilities

Another reason raids need multiple difficulty tiers or modes – it would allow them to incorporate content or zones (like the above examples) that tie more heavily into lore and story.

The current model doesn’t allow for this kind of thing without causing more issues than it solves.

I just want to be excited about a new raid without people complaining about minor lore elements

I really loved the WoW LFR thing. You get worse loot but still could experience the whole raid. For the people who wanted a challenge there is normal, heroic or now mythic mode. I like this solution. In my opinion – especially in WoW – it’s pointless to grind/raid 2-3 times/week only to realize that the best gear is crap a couple of months later.

Anyway, in GW2 there is the problem we don’t have different gear in the same rarity. So that means ascended always have the same stats. To solve that I’d suggest an easy mode where you get less items or lower chance for items/tokens which takes longer to get the same rewards etc.

I’ve heard far too often from WoW raiders how LFR drove the skill level of raiders too far down to recruit proper players for real raids. LFR mode remains a bad idea.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I really loved the WoW LFR thing. You get worse loot but still could experience the whole raid. For the people who wanted a challenge there is normal, heroic or now mythic mode. I like this solution. In my opinion – especially in WoW – it’s pointless to grind/raid 2-3 times/week only to realize that the best gear is crap a couple of months later.

Anyway, in GW2 there is the problem we don’t have different gear in the same rarity. So that means ascended always have the same stats. To solve that I’d suggest an easy mode where you get less items or lower chance for items/tokens which takes longer to get the same rewards etc.

Agreed.

It works well in WoW, as does flex raiding (apparently, from what I hear, this is VERY popular now – ironically an idea they probably borrowed from GW2) and multiple tiers.

And the reasons they would work well here are pretty much the same. It allows for greater storytelling/lore tie-ins without the worry of exclusion, it offers a wider experience for more players, it offers stepping stones for people wanting to ease into raiding, it gives guilds/friends/etc more to do together, etc.

It just makes sense.

Stop derailing the thread again about this bad ideia of easier raids. It wont happen just accept it and move on. The topic is about the next raid that is about to come, stick to it.

Hope we get a armor skin in it instead of weapons even if it just 1 piece per type of armor.

@OnizukaBR : Yeah ^^ ! But armors are too hard to make :/ Weapons are wayyyyyy easier and i’m ok with that

We had only 3-4? armor with the expansion, i don’t believe that they will add some armor skins in raids :/ ! But outfits are not a problem when they have a link with actual raid ! Even if I’ll never buy something from the cash shop.. It’s good

Blaeys.3102:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I really loved the WoW LFR thing. You get worse loot but still could experience the whole raid. For the people who wanted a challenge there is normal, heroic or now mythic mode. I like this solution. In my opinion – especially in WoW – it’s pointless to grind/raid 2-3 times/week only to realize that the best gear is crap a couple of months later.

Anyway, in GW2 there is the problem we don’t have different gear in the same rarity. So that means ascended always have the same stats. To solve that I’d suggest an easy mode where you get less items or lower chance for items/tokens which takes longer to get the same rewards etc.

Agreed.

It works well in WoW, as does flex raiding (apparently, from what I hear, this is VERY popular now – ironically an idea they probably borrowed from GW2) and multiple tiers.

And the reasons they would work well here are pretty much the same. It allows for greater storytelling/lore tie-ins without the worry of exclusion, it offers a wider experience for more players, it offers stepping stones for people wanting to ease into raiding, it gives guilds/friends/etc more to do together, etc.

It just makes sense.

You are completly wrong. There will be people that won’t touch a raid, even with multiple difficulties. Those will be exclude from the story permanently with this change to the story telling.
The major reason LFR exists in WoW is the fact that most content after the expansion release are raids and it would exclude many players from almost all content that comes after release.
Raids in GW2 are a minor part of content.

There will always be people who won’t touch it, but at least there are more people who are willing to join if it is easy to complete.

Why is this a bad idea?

ProtoGunner.4953:

There will always be people who won’t touch it, but at least there are more people who are willing to join if it is easy to complete.

Why is this a bad idea?

Eats development resources (Why delay development on more raids).
Not the intended audience (Why not just add more open-world content instead).

Are two of the very basic arguments. Raids were literally designed not to be for everyone. Much like how WvW is built around players interested in Large Open-World combat and Structure Sieges, or SPvP is built around small-man objective Player versus Player.

It’s up to the player ultimately whether they go into a piece of content in this game or not.

Sykper.6583:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Why is this a bad idea?

Eats development resources (Why delay development on more raids).
Not the intended audience (Why not just add more open-world content instead).

They could scrap any plans for future Living Story and instead from now on focus mostly on instanced raids, like what some other games are doing. I mean if other games can have multiple raid difficulties, because they are based on Raids mostly, then GW2 can also become a Raid-centric game and forget about the open world and just have 10-man instances with varied difficulty ratings.
To quote a famous Pact Marshal: This won’t end well.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Hope we get a armor skin in it instead of weapons even if it just 1 piece per type of armor.

The next Raid is being speculated to allow us to finish the Legendary Armor. Now after that I’d like to see legendary trinkets, we have weapons, armor, backs, how about rings and amulets?

maddoctor.2738:

The next Raid is being speculated to allow us to finish the Legendary Armor. Now after that I’d like to see legendary trinkets, we have weapons, armor, backs, how about rings and amulets?

Well the AMA didn’t say that the Legendary Armor will be finished with the next Raid. What we get from the AMA is “The Envoy II Collection will be completed in a future raid.”

Just to burst a bubble before the next Raid comes in and the Legendary Armor isn’t implemented then ( with the occasional Outrage )

OnizukaBR.8537:

Stop derailing the thread again about this bad ideia of easier raids. It wont happen just accept it and move on. The topic is about the next raid that is about to come, stick to it.

It will happen, sooner or later. Either this, or raids will be abandoned by dev team just like dungeons due to changed priorities. There is zero successful modern PvE raiding games on MMO scene with that long dead single difficulty model.
Also, next raid will be single-wing one, and will give you last piece of legendary collection. Fate of gw2 raids after that is unknown.

Walhalla.5473:

Well the AMA didn’t say that the Legendary Armor will be finished with the next Raid. What we get from the AMA is “The Envoy II Collection will be completed in a future raid.”

That’s true. My mistake, next raid will allow us to finish Envoy II not get Legendary Armor.

Rednik.3809:

There is zero successful modern PvE raiding games on MMO scene with that long dead single difficulty model.

How many had multiple difficulties when they released their very first and only raid?

Rednik.3809:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Stop derailing the thread again about this bad ideia of easier raids. It wont happen just accept it and move on. The topic is about the next raid that is about to come, stick to it.

It will happen, sooner or later. Either this, or raids will be abandoned by dev team just like dungeons due to changed priorities. There is zero successful modern PvE raiding games on MMO scene with that long dead single difficulty model.
Also, next raid will be single-wing one, and will give you last piece of legendary collection. Fate of gw2 raids after that is unknown.

Or you know like GW1 FoW and UW was a huge sucess and people play it to this day. GW2 will follow the same and raids will always be played.
Just because you dont like it it doesnt mean it will be stopped or abandoned.
I’m really confident that raids will last until the last day of GW2 because how good they are designed.
So stop beating the dead horse.

maddoctor.2738:

How many had multiple difficulties when they released their very first and only raid?

So you admit that situation most probably will change in future?

OnizukaBR.8537:

Or you know like GW1 FoW and UW was a huge sucess and people play it to this day. GW2 will follow the same and raids will always be played.

Oh, you mean ones released in 2007? Yeah, back then that raid model was still alive, along with WoW vanilla and first wave of BC raids. Too bad that now we live in 2016 instead of 2007, and this model is not working anywhere in modern MMOs. And I don’t see crowds of exalted raiders buying GW1 to enjoy FoW and UW experience.

Rednik.3809:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Or you know like GW1 FoW and UW was a huge sucess and people play it to this day. GW2 will follow the same and raids will always be played.

Oh, you mean ones released in 2007? Yeah, back then that raid model was still alive, along with WoW vanilla and first wave of BC raids. Too bad that now we live in 2016 instead of 2007, and this model is not working anywhere in modern MMOs. And I don’t see crowds of exalted raiders buying GW1 to enjoy FoW and UW experience.

Your argument is invalid the moment you start comparing GW2 to other mmo because not having vertical progression is not a minor different, its a world of difference.
So because of that you cant compare raids of other games to GW2.
And people dont buy GW1 because the game is really old , and we have GW2, but the folks that still play GW1 still do FoW and UW

OnizukaBR.8537:

Your argument is invalid the moment you start comparing GW2 to other mmo because not having vertical progression is not a minor different, its a world of difference.
So because of that you cant compare raids of other games to GW2.
And people dont buy GW1 because the game is really old , and we have GW2, but the folks that still play GW1 still do FoW and UW

I can repeat it again – there is no successful examples of such raid model in modern MMOs. None. Zero. Null. Regardless of progression, subscription model and moon phases.

Rednik.3809:

maddoctor.2738:

How many had multiple difficulties when they released their very first and only raid?

So you admit that situation most probably will change in future?

No, I go from what I see, and currently I see absolutely no reason to add more difficulty levels in the Raid we already have. I’d rather they focus on making more Raids rather than tweaking the current one. And of course taking time/people out of other aspects of the game to tweak the Raids isn’t a very good option either.

Now if you ask me when there are 10+ Raid wings spread over multiple Raids, then maybe I will have a completely different opinion. Unlike other games were older Raids lose their value with each expansion, Spirit Vale will be Spirit Vale forever, which means certain care must be taken by the devs to keep in relevant and important when the next raids are released. We don’t want SV to go the way of Dungeons, do we?

Will an easy mode keep SV relevant compared to the next Raids? Maybe. But maybe a Hard mode version of will also keep it relevant by offering new and improved rewards (and challenges) for those who already mastered it.

How do they plan on keeping SV relevant into the future? I think it’s too early to even discuss that.

Rednik.3809:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Your argument is invalid the moment you start comparing GW2 to other mmo because not having vertical progression is not a minor different, its a world of difference.
So because of that you cant compare raids of other games to GW2.
And people dont buy GW1 because the game is really old , and we have GW2, but the folks that still play GW1 still do FoW and UW

I can repeat it again – there is no successful examples of such raid model in modern MMOs. None. Zero. Null. Regardless of progression, subscription model and moon phases.

I repeat there is 0 non horizontal mmorpg with raids out there. So what these games that are world different from GW2, failing, have any influence of how well GW2 will do ?
Your argument is invalid. You are comparing orange to apples and saying that orange will fail because apple did.

I like how people praise LFR, when even it’s creator and lead designer admits it was a flawed solution….

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/52fxo1/ama_league_design_lead_greg_ghostcrawler_street/d7jwm98

TexZero.7910:

I like how people praise LFR, when even it’s creator and lead designer admits it was a flawed solution….

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/52fxo1/ama_league_design_lead_greg_ghostcrawler_street/d7jwm98

“To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one. But the way Raid Finder turned out removed, IMO anyway, a lot of the epicness of what made raiding raiding…”

Do we really need to say anything else?

Sykper.6583:

TexZero.7910:

I like how people praise LFR, when even it’s creator and lead designer admits it was a flawed solution….

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/52fxo1/ama_league_design_lead_greg_ghostcrawler_street/d7jwm98

“To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one. But the way Raid Finder turned out removed, IMO anyway, a lot of the epicness of what made raiding raiding…”

Do we really need to say anything else?

Of course there is no way to tell, but I would guess that his statement is more about how the LFR tool works in WoW raids moreso than the idea of multiple difficulties (which exist outside the confines of LFR, btw). The raidfinder in that game dropped a bunch of random people together with no forethought – which isn’t how the group finder in GW2 works.

And, just as importantly, he recognizes the importance of expanding the raiding community, which is the whole point of adding multiple difficulties (which again, is separate from the LFR/group finder functionality discussion)