Guild Wars 2

Dungeon fixes:

There is a few things which I find really sad and bad about dungeons:
which contributes to a none fun, but more rewarding dungeon run playstyle.

First: people selling runs.
The idea of buying/selling dungeon rewards I find saddening, the point of dungeons is to incentivise people to have fun running them. The whole focus of “selling runs” breaks this completely.

Two: skipping most of the dungeon.
The ability to run pass everything skipping the vast majority of the dungeon is again counter intuitive to the design and idea of the devs when looking at dungeons.
It also forces people to do so because rewards are scaled for “time to complete” and time to complete is determined by average time.

Both of these ends up hurting the overall gameplay by the focus going from Fun to Effectiveness.
It is the endless discussion within game design of “Effective != Fun” which means that the most effective way to achieve a goal is not always the most fun one.
The more you allow people to exploit around to optimize reward, the more you pressure people to do what is “less fun, but vastly more rewarding” which creates a bad gameplay overall.

So now, I explained the issue I will come with some extremely simple and easy fixes.

First last fix the skipping part:
There are two ways of fixing this:
1: you set up barriers/doors/invisible walls for each room area that stops progression and doesn’t disappear before you killed all enemies up to that point.
2: when aggroing a boss, all enemies up until that boss will auto agro you and never lose agro again before they are all killed or boss loses agro. Should the boss die without losing agro the mobs will NEVER lose agro (so any exploit trying to get around this will mean you need to either clear the mobs afterwards or restart the run).

Lets fix the other issue:
Selling of runs: you are supposed to be rewarded due to your contribution to the entire run. Therefore I suggest the set in a system which monitors assist kills of enemies, it very simple looks at how many kills of the enemies where you are part of and it rewards you on a % scale.
So if you where only there for 0% of the kills up until the boss then you get 0% rewards. If you where there for 80% of the kills you get 80% of the reward.

In this manner you are rewarded on how much of the run you actually contributed too.
(the contribution should look at mob groups, so if you hit a mob of the mob group or do a positive thing on a group member or if you are just within 2.500 distance of a mob that dies, all mobs in that group is tagged as you being a contributor.
If you die, resurrect and does not get back in time, you still get full contribution for all mobs which was in the group you attacked.
If your team then ignores you and keep going even though you are not back you will not get contribution for anything they kill without you being there)

The contribution is supposed to be set up in a way that forces you to be part of the action to get any rewards, but do not punish you for being unlucky or bad at it.

How would this be more fun?

I think those are problems because it’s not my playstyle so nobody has fun doing that and it should be “fixed”

This is going to end well.

garcialak.9215:

I think those are problems because it’s not my playstyle so nobody has fun doing that and it should be “fixed”

actually it most be a clear design flaw aka problem.
or some one just felt like wasting time and money.

they put a lot of stuff in the dungeons because it was intended for you to tackle that stuff, and when you ignore that stuff you are doing something not intended.

as i describe so nicely if you wanted to think about it:
it is the issue of “maximizing rewards vs playing the way it is fun/intended to do”.
as mmo’ers the vast majority will play the way which gives them the greatest reward, which is why the way to get the greatest rewards need to be the way “it was intended to be done”.
which we must assume “the way it is intended to be done” is designed to be “the way which should created the best/most fun gameplay experience”

when that is said: the exploiters are hurting the gameplay for every one else, because the rewards as i also mentioned gets balanced depending on speed of the fastest.
so them exploiting to do it faster, is lowering the rewards for the players which are playing it as intended…
SO even if that is the way they like it, it is hurting the vast majority (and i would argue they only like it like that because the reward is higher then it would be otherwise; if reward vs time was the same they wouldn’t care, or they would be happy; doubt many if any players think it is fun to run/skip stuff, if they could get the same reward/hour by fighting it and playing as intended)

1) Too bad for you. Selling is there since GW1 and will continue to be with the blessing of Anet.

2) A lot of people like skipping and it’s part of the game for them (I include myself). But true enough, Anet doesn’t really handled them very well. Skipping should fall into two category. First is skipping by a meaningful choice. You can either skip for a faster run, of fight for more reward. Right now, most skipping are not a choice since there is no incentive to fight everything. The second situation are obligatory skipping. This should be clear with unkillable super boosted enemies that are hard to skip.

Sorry but IMO your solutions are bad. The first isn’t a problem, while the second are just forcing players to play the way YOU want. Infinite Leash and Barrier are not good design. They are just ways to force player into a specific way of playing.

Erebus.7568:

First last fix the skipping part:
There are two ways of fixing this:
1: you set up barriers/doors/invisible walls for each room area that stops progression and doesn’t disappear before you killed all enemies up to that point.
2: when aggroing a boss, all enemies up until that boss will auto agro you and never lose agro again before they are all killed or boss loses agro. Should the boss die without losing agro the mobs will NEVER lose agro (so any exploit trying to get around this will mean you need to either clear the mobs afterwards or restart the run).

This whole post seems pretty ridiculous, but particularly this. Making mobs NEVER lose aggro is suggested as a way to make the game more fun? Sorry but if I have to wade through every mob in every dungeon to complete it, I don’t think I’ll ever run a dungeon again. Besides, a lot of waves of mobs are DESIGNED to be skipped. Point in case: Arah hall before lupi.

NACotser.4125:

Erebus.7568:

First last fix the skipping part:
There are two ways of fixing this:
1: you set up barriers/doors/invisible walls for each room area that stops progression and doesn’t disappear before you killed all enemies up to that point.
2: when aggroing a boss, all enemies up until that boss will auto agro you and never lose agro again before they are all killed or boss loses agro. Should the boss die without losing agro the mobs will NEVER lose agro (so any exploit trying to get around this will mean you need to either clear the mobs afterwards or restart the run).

This whole post seems pretty ridiculous, but particularly this. Making mobs NEVER lose aggro is suggested as a way to make the game more fun? Sorry but if I have to wade through every mob in every dungeon to complete it, I don’t think I’ll ever run a dungeon again. Besides, a lot of waves of mobs are DESIGNED to be skipped. Point in case: Arah hall before lupi.

both are to stop abuse
to stop people skipping because it have major negative effects on the gameplay and intended design of dungeons.

and stopping people from getting rewards without doing the dungeon.

should be pretty easy to understand ^^

btw: i was amonst the first bounches to do lupi

and NOTHING was designed to be skipped, that is why the rewards was SO much higher then they are now.
rewards got mega nerfed because every one skipped.
and instead of skillfull combat gameplay, you just needed to learn skillfull exploiting and skipping.
bad direction for a game

Erebus.7568:

garcialak.9215:

I think those are problems because it’s not my playstyle so nobody has fun doing that and it should be “fixed”

actually it most be a clear design flaw aka problem.
or some one just felt like wasting time and money.

they put a lot of stuff in the dungeons because it was intended for you to tackle that stuff, and when you ignore that stuff you are doing something not intended.

as i describe so nicely if you wanted to think about it:
it is the issue of “maximizing rewards vs playing the way it is fun/intended to do”.
as mmo’ers the vast majority will play the way which gives them the greatest reward, which is why the way to get the greatest rewards need to be the way “it was intended to be done”.
which we must assume “the way it is intended to be done” is designed to be “the way which should created the best/most fun gameplay experience”

when that is said: the exploiters are hurting the gameplay for every one else, because the rewards as i also mentioned gets balanced depending on speed of the fastest.
so them exploiting to do it faster, is lowering the rewards for the players which are playing it as intended…
SO even if that is the way they like it, it is hurting the vast majority (and i would argue they only like it like that because the reward is higher then it would be otherwise; if reward vs time was the same they wouldn’t care, or they would be happy; doubt many if any players think it is fun to run/skip stuff, if they could get the same reward/hour by fighting it and playing as intended)

Hrouda disagrees. A lot of trash mobs are made to be skipped. Your idea idea to make the mobs never lose aggro and full pull to you is one of the worst I read on this forum, and people kitten post often.

If you don’t like to skip, don’t do it. Don’t force people to play how you want.

Better way to deal with the skipping mobs issues: Increase the drop rate of items from them to actually make it worth killing them.

They took your recommendation with TA Aetherpath and even gave it a nice RNG end reward with the Aether skins and how often do you see people running that?

Thaddeus.4891:

1) Too bad for you. Selling is there since GW1 and will continue to be with the blessing of Anet.

2) A lot of people like skipping and it’s part of the game for them (I include myself). But true enough, Anet doesn’t really handled them very well. Skipping should fall into two category. First is skipping by a meaningful choice. You can either skip for a faster run, of fight for more reward. Right now, most skipping are not a choice since there is no incentive to fight everything. The second situation are obligatory skipping. This should be clear with unkillable super boosted enemies that are hard to skip.

Sorry but IMO your solutions are bad. The first isn’t a problem, while the second are just forcing players to play the way YOU want. Infinite Leash and Barrier are not good design. They are just ways to force player into a specific way of playing.

i dont agree that you should be able to just get the reward instantly without doing the work for it. (if they wanted that they would have made a gold to dungeon currency convertor)
but we won’t agree here. so next part.

i see skipping like this:
Either the content shouldn’t be there because it is not worth/fun to do, anet should remove it and stop wasting dev time on such things.
OR
the content is intended to be done for whatever design reasoning and therefore you shouldn’t be able to skip it

since dungeons already designed in a manner where skippeble content is CLEARLY indicated by “if you dont want this boss, ALL the content over here can be ignored”, i don’t see how skipping content that is clearly designed to be done if you want the reward at the end, would ever be a valid design choice (it is basically just wasting money and dev time).
:)

Erebus.7568:

NACotser.4125:

Erebus.7568:

snip

snip

both are to stop abuse
to stop people skipping because it have major negative effects on the gameplay and intended design of dungeons.

and stopping people from getting rewards without doing the dungeon.

should be pretty easy to understand ^^

btw: i was amonst the first bounches to do lupi

and NOTHING was designed to be skipped, that is why the rewards was SO much higher then they are now.
rewards got mega nerfed because every one skipped.
and instead of skillfull combat gameplay, you just needed to learn skillfull exploiting and skipping.
bad direction for a game

I’m not having trouble understanding I’m having trouble comprehending why you think it’s a good idea to force players to kill every mob. Secondly: Skipping isn’t an exploit, no aspect of the game is being manipulated, people are simply choosing to not kill everything in sight. If you however do want to, you can do that without forcing everyone else to do the same. There’s a whole guild, forum post, and LFG tool dedicated to finding like minded players

garcialak.9215:

Erebus.7568:

garcialak.9215:

I think those are problems because it’s not my playstyle so nobody has fun doing that and it should be “fixed”

actually it most be a clear design flaw aka problem.
or some one just felt like wasting time and money.

they put a lot of stuff in the dungeons because it was intended for you to tackle that stuff, and when you ignore that stuff you are doing something not intended.

as i describe so nicely if you wanted to think about it:
it is the issue of “maximizing rewards vs playing the way it is fun/intended to do”.
as mmo’ers the vast majority will play the way which gives them the greatest reward, which is why the way to get the greatest rewards need to be the way “it was intended to be done”.
which we must assume “the way it is intended to be done” is designed to be “the way which should created the best/most fun gameplay experience”

when that is said: the exploiters are hurting the gameplay for every one else, because the rewards as i also mentioned gets balanced depending on speed of the fastest.
so them exploiting to do it faster, is lowering the rewards for the players which are playing it as intended…
SO even if that is the way they like it, it is hurting the vast majority (and i would argue they only like it like that because the reward is higher then it would be otherwise; if reward vs time was the same they wouldn’t care, or they would be happy; doubt many if any players think it is fun to run/skip stuff, if they could get the same reward/hour by fighting it and playing as intended)

Hrouda disagrees. A lot of trash mobs are made to be skipped. Your idea idea to make the mobs never lose aggro and full pull to you is one of the worst I read on this forum, and people kitten post often.

If you don’t like to skip, don’t do it. Don’t force people to play how you want.

you seem to not understand the basic of ecconomy in the game.
first of harder to find good parties so it is a bad option.
but more importently the reward/hours is Not worth it.
YOUR exploiting the system is ACTIVELY hurting Others gameplay experience.
you comprehending this untill now?

now i do not blame you for doing it, because it is the design that is flawed, since reward/hour will essentially be the importent part.
now the point is that Reward/hour for skipping should EQUAL the reward/hour for not skipping
which would be impossible to do a solid calc on. therefore change it.

on top of that the design is made for you to “learn to deal with the situation that is set” aka “be good enough to do it”, now skipping the whole thing breaks the effort which is intended for you to be allowed to even try to get the reward.

in short exploiting the system is hurting the overall gameplay in many ways and it shouldn’t be there because it IS exploiting the system.
however the reward/hour need to not get nerfed by doing so, so it needs to be boosted to the ratio of time increased

i am not sure if any of this is getting through to you
if not, well sad but no helping it ^^

Nothing was designed to be skipped? Have you seen Arah? There are dozens (if not hundreds) of mobs just littered across the dungeon map. With your proposed fixes we would wasting so much time going through the gauntlet of mobs just to get to the next boss/mission.

Even if the rewards were buffed or there was an incentive to kill mobs that’s still a huge time suck mowing through all that trash.

If skipping wasn’t intended (to an extent) why would a feature such as group stealth and stealth-granting consumable items be available? Such utility is generally made available when sneaking around or avoidance is anticipated by the game developers.

Granted, I’ve seen some over the top exploits and ’not as intended" techniques in the game, but issues like those should be patched rather than redo-ing the entire instance engine to make it a grind rather than a run.

NACotser.4125:

Erebus.7568:

NACotser.4125:

Erebus.7568:

snip

snip

both are to stop abuse
to stop people skipping because it have major negative effects on the gameplay and intended design of dungeons.

and stopping people from getting rewards without doing the dungeon.

should be pretty easy to understand ^^

btw: i was amonst the first bounches to do lupi

and NOTHING was designed to be skipped, that is why the rewards was SO much higher then they are now.
rewards got mega nerfed because every one skipped.
and instead of skillfull combat gameplay, you just needed to learn skillfull exploiting and skipping.
bad direction for a game

I’m not having trouble understanding I’m having trouble comprehending why you think it’s a good idea to force players to kill every mob. Secondly: Skipping isn’t an exploit, no aspect of the game is being manipulated, people are simply choosing to not kill everything in sight. If you however do want to, you can do that without forcing everyone else to do the same. There’s a whole guild, forum post, and LFG tool dedicated to finding like minded players

first of it is an exploit, you are doing something that wasn’t intended by the designers when creating the content.

now ask yourself:
“why did the designer of this dungeon put these mobs here if he didn’t intend for us to do them?”

then ask yourself:
“is the rewards of the dungeon suppose to reward you for the effort of doing the dungeon, and if so does skipping half the encounters thereby VASTLY lowering the effort of doing the dungeon make it fair that we get the full reward when we didn’t put in the full effort?”

lastly ask yourself:
“since rewards are static anyone NOT skipping is getting VASTLY lower rewards per hour for doing the dungeons as the designers intended it to be done. is it fair that they are being punished for doing the content as it was intended to be done?”

when you answered all of those (it is pretty simple, there is only 1 logical answer for each one) try to figure out a way to change the problem, a suggestion for the change which would fix it ^^

This was addressed by the designer of the dungeons 2 years ago. Please see here for his opinion:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Where art though Robert Hrouda?

Erebus.7568:

i dont agree that you should be able to just get the reward instantly without doing the work for it. (if they wanted that they would have made a gold to dungeon currency convertor)
but we won’t agree here. so next part.

Your opinion on that is irrelevant. Anet specifically talk abou that. The discussion is close for 2 years now. This is just useless.

savacli.8172:

Nothing was designed to be skipped? Have you seen Arah? .

i did arah before people learned to skip it.
it took ages.
(think it was 4ish hours to do the whole thing, if i recall correctly: but you are not suppose to run all routes in one go: and it is pretty normal from mmo’s that a long dungeon run takes 1-2hours to do)
to do and the reward was vastly higher then it is now because of it.
it actually took some effort (which was the entire intention)…

your complain about my suggestion seems to be:
reward/effort isn’t as good if this happens; but thats a reward balance issue, which is a number tweaking

stachekiller.2591:

This was addressed by the designer of the dungeons 2 years ago. Please see here for his opinion:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Where art though Robert Hrouda?

you do realise that he is saying the same i am right?
that it is a problem and they would like to fix it, but they are unsure how.

the fact their designers are terribad at game design doesn’t make the issue closed
they know it is a problem and instead of fixing it they are basically putting their heads up their behinds.

which is why it is importent to remind them now and then that the problem is STILL THERE and it is hurting the player count:
(i did aion for many years, run boring max effective dungeon runs 10ish hours a day, EVERY day, as if it was work, but work you also did in your weekends…
only such hardcore people will keep staying and doing these dungeons when you ignore the fun factor and force the “effective play over all other”..
and needless to say that is VERY bad for the game overall)

when all that is said, my voice will properly be silenced again in a few days, when i lose interest in the game due to incompetent devs doing nothing to fix the issues ^^
(which was also why i stopped playing the first time around)

Take a look at what the dev who made the dungeons has to say: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Posts like these are what make me read the dungeon forums. Best comedy on the Internet.

So you didn’t skip any mobs in Arah?

Not even in Path 2?

Because there’s this one area in Path 2 with infinitely respawning mobs that you have to skip by design. I wonder how you got past it.

Are you really claiming that all skips, even skips you’re forced to do by the design, is “counter intuitive to the design and idea of the devs when looking at dungeons”? Also, if not for skipping, why does stealth exist in PvE, and do you really think ANET didn’t think players might use it to bypass mobs they allowed you to bypass with it?

Chaos.5072:

Take a look at what the dev who made the dungeons has to say: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Posts like these are what make me read the dungeon forums. Best comedy on the Internet.

i just read that, i also answered it right over your massage if you had read it -.-
which IF you had you would properly also have read what robert said, and thereby known that he is saying the EXACT same thing i am, and also stating it is an issue -.-

maybe learn to read? seems to be your problem here mate

Maybe it’s time to realize that development on dungeons has pretty much come to a complete stop and complaining on the forums isn’t going to change anything.

Erebus.7568:

Chaos.5072:

Take a look at what the dev who made the dungeons has to say: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Posts like these are what make me read the dungeon forums. Best comedy on the Internet.

i just read that, i also answered it right over your massage if you had read it -.-
which IF you had you would properly also have read what robert said, and thereby known that he is saying the EXACT same thing i am, and also stating it is an issue -.-

maybe learn to read? seems to be your problem here mate

I’m starting to think you didn’t read it either. Here, I’ll give you the best part:
“I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.”

And this was written before LFG. Now it’s even easiest to find those players with similar interests. Happy dungeoning mate

Zui.9245:

So you didn’t skip any mobs in Arah?

Not even in Path 2?

Because there’s this one area in Path 2 with infinitely respawning mobs that you have to skip by design. I wonder how you got past it.

Are you really claiming that all skips, even skips you’re forced to do by the design, is “counter intuitive to the design and idea of the devs when looking at dungeons”? Also, if not for skipping, why does stealth exist in PvE, and do you really think ANET didn’t think players might use it to bypass mobs they allowed you to bypass with it?

the first couple of times we did it, no one knew how to exploit to skip it
so we had to simply just clear our way through the mobs ^^ (don’t recall if we missed any, but we killed anything that was within sight)

we did was was designed (you talking about the robot part, where you hide under it’s shield and follow? since we followed it as intended which is NOT skipping, but doing as INTENDED design wishes you to do.
keep in mind i havent played for i think a year now if not more hehe.)

as said you are NOT skipping the content, you are using the robot AS intended
(if however you do the EXPLOIT mode and RUN it, which you can do if you know what you where doing, then YES it is an exploit and you are ruining the design and purpose of having the robot there and the fact you need to keep it running.
so yes if you do it like that, it is counter intuitive to even have the robot or the mobs there, if you do not intend for them to ever be used, to make the group overcome a new kind of “challenge”.)

if stealth was designed to skip mobs, it would have a version with a much longer base lasting time, like in aion (5min base)

Chaos.5072:

Erebus.7568:

Chaos.5072:

Take a look at what the dev who made the dungeons has to say: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Will-the-new-update-stop-skipping/first#post1205684

Posts like these are what make me read the dungeon forums. Best comedy on the Internet.

i just read that, i also answered it right over your massage if you had read it -.-
which IF you had you would properly also have read what robert said, and thereby known that he is saying the EXACT same thing i am, and also stating it is an issue -.-

maybe learn to read? seems to be your problem here mate

I’m starting to think you didn’t read it either. Here, I’ll give you the best part:
“I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.”

And this was written before LFG. Now it’s even easiest to find those players with similar interests. Happy dungeoning mate

you know what a temporary work around is?

you wanted him to say “well i read this thread and NOW i just fixed the code for it, it is all cool now”
or
" i read it and i have absolutely no solution or thing you can try to better the situation untill i find a fix"
?
-.-

maybe actually read his whole statement instead of cherry picking would help

dutchiez.7502:

Maybe it’s time to realize that development on dungeons has pretty much come to a complete stop and complaining on the forums isn’t going to change anything.

+- yer… it is a saaaad thing that something so simple to fix is ignored

but if that truly is the case… on the bright side 3-4 months untill B&S

Well hopefully someday they will ban all those exploiters using stealth as intended, along with the people who exploit by swapping weapons from their inventory and the people who exploit by equipping Berserker’s gear.

The game already has barriers in the form of defeat boss or complete event to progress. These are physical barriers that are not designed to be bypassed (doing so would be considered an exploit by most of us on the forums).

Now, filling a route with trash mobs that may or may not drop loot? That’s not required content but rather an obstacle. How a group goes about dealing with the obstacle is up to the group itself. Again, stealth is made readily available so using ‘stealth skips’ is not an exploit at all but rather a tool we have been given for dealing with such situations.

As Robert mentioned in that post linked above the issue isn’t so much as to how the devs can force mobs killing upon players, but rather the fix is in figuring why the player skip the content to begin with.

This is GW2 where the game promotes a PHIW playstyle. Just because the OP feels that skipping is an exploit shouldn’t be a reason to punish players who use skipping as a tool. Legitimate content skipping is just another PHIW, it just so happens to be the most popular and profitable playstyle atm. For those that don’t agree with it they are more than welcome (and encouraged) to form groups that play more to their style.

savacli.8172:

The game already has barriers in the form of defeat boss or complete event to progress. These are physical barriers that are not designed to be bypassed (doing so would be considered an exploit by most of us on the forums).

Now, filling a route with trash mobs that may or may not drop loot? That’s not required content but rather an obstacle. How a group goes about dealing with the obstacle is up to the group itself.

if the trash mobs are not a part of the “effort” which should be there for you to get the reward.
then they shouldnt even be in the dungeon in the first place, remove them.
if they are suppose to be a part of the effort for the reward, force people to deal with them

btw hardest dungeons in the game is speedrunned in less then 20 minutes -.-
or some done by solo players etc….

it should be more then clear that the dungeon system is broken…
i am amazed that so many can even discuss that o.O
i guess “easy/skip mode” is the way some people want their content, just wish there was a “hard/full mode” that would eliminate all that nonesense for players that actually want the challenge/have to do the effort AND want a reward equalling it..

they are there for the ambience, how would an undead city look without undead patrolling it? gw2 is a game of flair

I’m tired of people who start posts off with some variation of “I never understood why…” and then proceed to give you their very strong opinion on it. If you don’t understand a topic, other than an inflated sense of your own self-worth, why are you creating it?

theoutsider.7849:

they are there for the ambience, how would an undead city look without undead patrolling it? gw2 is a game of flair

^This

Example: One of the human personal stories include an orphanage on fire. Now, how dull would the game be if all the devs included were the required content (NPC’s to save, physical checkpoints, etc)? Instead the devs opted to through in a more realistic experience. There are townsfolk in panic; they are showing emotion and reacting appropriately. Can I skip talking to each NPC? Absolutely. So why put the townsfolks there? Because it’s their home, the NPC’s live there.

In the example of Arah, the flavor is in the furnishing of the mobs and the physical environment. Why are all these mobs walking around and aimlessly flailing their arms at everything that approaches them? Because we, the players, are invading their home. Do we need to kill them all. Not really. Our NPC allies have already told us what our missions are (as defined by the paths we choose). How we get to A to B to C? Well, that’s on us as the players to decide.

Ugh the wave of PHIW kittens on the dungeon subforum lately is getting really annoying…
Just because you don’t like something, doesn’t mean that other people don’t like it.

Skipping mobs is not an exploit, Anet intentionally made it possible to skip them.
Otherwise they would have infinite aggro ranges like mobs in other MMOs, or have to be killed to trigger access to the next area of a dungeon

I agree dungeon selling should be illegal. So should supermarkets. I mean the purpose of food is to obtain it and outright buying it kinda ruins the whole experience of gathering berries and slaying wildlife.

It also ruins food because it takes away from the fun and towards effectiveness.

robertul.3679:

I agree dungeon selling should be illegal. So should supermarkets. I mean the purpose of food is to obtain it and outright buying it kinda ruins the whole experience of gathering berries and slaying wildlife.

It also ruins food because it takes away from the fun and towards effectiveness.

We should also ban vehicles because we were intended to walk and look at the views rather than skip past fields of animals.

Is there some sort of casual uprising brewing, these imbecile posts are becoming an infestation.

Painbow.6059:

robertul.3679:

I agree dungeon selling should be illegal. So should supermarkets. I mean the purpose of food is to obtain it and outright buying it kinda ruins the whole experience of gathering berries and slaying wildlife.

It also ruins food because it takes away from the fun and towards effectiveness.

We should also ban vehicles because we were intended to walk and look at the views rather than skip past fields of animals.

Is there some sort of casual uprising brewing, these imbecile posts are becoming an infestation.

Just wait what will be going on in this forum once they introduce fractal level 100 and raids…

stachekiller.2591:

Where art though Robert Hrouda?

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-hrouda/a/493/317

Erebus returned from a 1 year vacation to spread BINGO and PHIW all over us.

And he is not the only one. FML.

Painbow.6059:

robertul.3679:

I agree dungeon selling should be illegal. So should supermarkets. I mean the purpose of food is to obtain it and outright buying it kinda ruins the whole experience of gathering berries and slaying wildlife.

It also ruins food because it takes away from the fun and towards effectiveness.

We should also ban vehicles because we were intended to walk and look at the views rather than skip past fields of animals.

Is there some sort of casual uprising brewing, these imbecile posts are becoming an infestation.

Let’s also remove computers the because we are intended to experience things in person, to work with our bare hands and so on.

On a serious note, OP, thank god you’re not the one to design a dungeon. Stealthing got implemented for a reason, selling dungeons is allowed / tolerated by Anet. End of the story.

Erebus.7568:

your arguments is that NOTHING matters besides reward/time.

Try running the same content with nothing new for three years and then come tell us what else matters at that point.

Okiedokes, time for some truths. Please read this post carefully, as it really does tell you all you need to know.

The solution to your problems has been pointed out already: Find a guild or group of friends that wants to run the way you want. They’re out there.

Instead of posting threads saying

“My preferred playstyle is the ONLY VALID ONE EVER, and EVERYTHING SHOULD BE CHANGED FOR ME”

try making a thread saying

“Hey guys, this is how I like to play. I know it’s not popular, but surely there are others out there who want to do RP runs. Anyone want to group up? I’m on NA.”

It’s a far more mature way to handle it and actually has a chance to succeed. Because let’s face it: dungeons are dead. They are not going to expand them. They are not going to revamp them. There haven’t been significant updates to dungeon content in literally two years (well, one year and eleven months, but who’s counting…)

Raids and fractals are the future. These lovely multipath dungeon instances that we’re so fond of here will never be touched again. That thread you necro’d and got locked about skipping? The one where you ranted against Robert Hrouda? Well, they laid him off (as well as the other dungeon team leads) about two years ago and never replaced them. So I think he does have an excuse to have not changed anything in the time since….You’re lashing out at players and developers because the people managing this game decided to abandon their content. Give it a rest, you’re not winning anyone over to your side.

Trust us, you’re wasting your time trying to make anything change here. Take it from someone (me) who’s been trying to get things to change around here for several years — it ain’t gonna happen. Go to the “Looking For…” subforum and make a post advertising that you’re looking for a no skipping/stacking/whatever guild, that’s really the only really option you have here.

For your information OP : There’s even a stickied thread in the general discussion forum where Anet acknowledges not to have a problem with selling spots for dungeons
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Can’t we just agree to all report this thread as a trolling thread intentionally meant to disrupt the forum and to get the Dev’s to enforce his way to play on everyone else?

dlonie.6547:

It’s a far more mature way to handle it and actually has a chance to succeed. Because let’s face it: dungeons are dead. They are not going to expand them. They are not going to revamp them. There haven’t been significant updates to dungeon content in literally two years (well, one year and eleven months, but who’s counting…)

Raids and fractals are the future. These lovely multipath dungeon instances that we’re so fond of here will never be touched again. That thread you necro’d and got locked about skipping? The one where you ranted against Robert Hrouda? Well, they laid him off (as well as the other dungeon team leads) about two years ago and never replaced them. So I think he does have an excuse to have not changed anything in the time since….You’re lashing out at players and developers because the people managing this game decided to abandon their content. Give it a rest, you’re not winning anyone over to your side.

Yup. Colin gave confirmation in an interview published yesterday that conventional dungeons are dead content left to rot to it’s own device and will not be focusing any development time to them.

Erebus.7568:

dutchiez.7502:

Maybe it’s time to realize that development on dungeons has pretty much come to a complete stop and complaining on the forums isn’t going to change anything.

+- yer… it is a saaaad thing that something so simple to fix is ignored

but if that truly is the case… on the bright side 3-4 months untill B&S

I mean, this guy is either a complete idiot or this is a low quality bait thread. Either way I don’t see why you’re responding to him

The more I read this thread the more it starts to look like Mythbusters. As in, the OP rejects reality and substitutes his own.

By the way, OP. You’ll get more people to agree with your stupid conception of what dungeons should be if you post threads in the General Discussion section instead of “Fractals & Dungeons”

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Yup. Colin gave confirmation in an interview published yesterday that conventional dungeons are dead content left to rot to it’s own device and will not be focusing any development time to them.

Oh, did they FINALLY kittenING ADMIT IT? Jerus Chwist, we’ve been waiting for two years for them to say anything about it. No idea why they couldn’t have said something sooner so we could manage our expectations.

Remember Regina?

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

we have no immediate plans to revamp dungeons […] That’s not to say that the team will never have time, in the future, to do large projects like the TA Aetherpath or similar with other dungeons. As Mike O’Brien said in his recent post, if we ever permanently stop working on a particular area of the game, we will tell you all.

Need I point out that this was well after they’d stopped working on dungeons? Lies, lies, lies.

Sigh. Anyway, can you post the link to the CJ interview? I hadn’t seen that one yet.

I would, but I’m at work and those sites are not accessible. It was on the GW2 twitter feed or FB feed yesterday, IIRC. I mean, he didn’t say out right that they were “dead” but he said they’re not focusing on them and that Fractals and Raids are going to be what they focus on going forward. Reading between the lines I see it that the multi-path conventional dungeons are dead. To reinforce that point Colin keeps referring to Fractals as Anet’s dungeon content (albeit mini-dungeons, IMO), not the conventional multi-path dungeons like COF and AC.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10044/Guild-Wars-2-Colin-and-MO-Talk-Heart-of-Thorns-Raids-and-Free-to-Play.html — got the link

Thanks. Yep, that’s about as clear as I’d ever expect them to be about it.

Closure?