Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

But why would it be? In no game has the dungeons been for 1 man. No group project in reality scales down if you’re alone doing it.

I would like to correct this. There are several MMO’s that have instances that scale to the party size, and some MMO’s even have a Difficulty Setting on their Dungeon Instances.

Case in point, Dungeons and Dragons Online, has both of these features, where you can select a difficulty setting and the dungeon scales to the party size.

It is quite fascinating feature, and adds a whole grand dynamic to dungeon running, where upon a group that thinks they have what it takes, if they want to run elite content, the dungeon scaling requires that each player be of elite skill level as opposed to static dungeons that can have it where a few elite players can carry lesser skilled or geared players.

The difficulty setting allows players to go in on the skill level they feel comfortable at, and for some top players, they even try the easy modes first to learn the dungeons as well, as opposed a fixed system where some players and even teams are being pushed into the deep end of the pool and needing to play a game survival while trying to learn the dungeon and at the same time other players and elite teams are dealing with a total yawn-fest.

So yes. MMO’s do this. They have difficulty levels, and some have dungeon scaling. Takes a bit more work to make it happen, but in the end, it helps reach a wider demographic of players of different skill levels.

I mean don’t you wish some days that they had a “hard mode” or that If you had to short man it because your friend could not long in tonight, that the dungeon could understand and respond accordingly so you could still do Hard Mode and would not need to drop down to “Don’t Hurt Me Difficulty”

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

Mirta.5029:

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

Mirta.5029:

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

Mirta.5029:

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

Mirta.5029:

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

I disagree with your entire comment

1 you should not be penalized for your play style so t he rewards should be the same.

2 MMO simply means multiplayer that means more than one player playing the in the same world in real time *It Does NOT mean forced grouping and forced guilding. *

It’s a multiplayer online experience. Dungeons are optional. Don’t want to group – don’t do dungeons. Or better yet, follow those insanely skilled guys on youtube and SOLO a dungeon. It has been done before and just because the game recommends you to go in with a 5 man group you’re not forbidden from going in alone.

You also missed the entire point of this thread . Everyone should be able to do everything no matter what their play style is.

and they are! If by play style you mean class, weapon choice, trait choice, ability choice, armor choice. Dungeons don’t hinder that at all. Though remember this is an MMO. I’m a solo player mostly and I don’t mind to group up for dungeons because I understand that I did not buy a single player game.
At the same time you are not following my advice for some reason. The game is not hindering your “play style”. It does not forbid you from entering the dungeons on your own. It just doesn’t make it any easier on you. The same way that you can solo group events. So go on, solo a dungeon! It has been done before by skilled players so surely you can do it too

it is also possible to climb mount Everest but that is not something i would find fun. All i am asking is they make it easier for solo player s and still have the same rewards structure. All they have to do is make the dungeon recognize if a solo player has entered the dungeon and make it the same difficulty as if i was in any other zone out side.

That is my definition of fun .yours may differ.

so essentially it’s not that you want solo, you want easy. I’m sorry, but group events don’t scale down to be easy. Can you do the temple of Lyssa alone? Yes you can. Is it easier? No. Dungeons are essentially the same as group events – not meant for solo therefore not scaled for solo. And in my opinion that’s how it’s supposed to be.

now your just twisting my words i want something that is scaled for 1 person not 5 .

But why would it be? In no game has the dungeons been for 1 man. No group project in reality scales down if you’re alone doing it. Everest does not shrink just because you decided to go alone instead of in a regular group of 10.
It shouldn’t count for hindering your playstyle either, because you can Solo but you choose not to because it’s hard.

Just because there isn’t one now doesn’t means there shouldn’t be there is a first time for everything before people said you cant make a mmo without trinity.

This isn’t reality this is a game it supposed to be fun. Hard does not = fun imo If you need further definition of fun and mmo try reading this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Defining-MMO

If any game was completely solo able with no difference in rewards it would make no difference the People who want to group will the people who dont wont .

What your suggesting is FORCING people to work as a team , make things incredibly difficult if they don’t or miss out on part of the game.

Why should anyone have to make that choice ?

What I’m suggesting is not erasing optional group content. It’s OPTIONAL. And it’s an MMO. You don’t have to group. All you have to do is invest a bit of time and do something hard. Why would someone have to lower the difficulty for one self entitled whinny kid and still give him full rewards? Want to do it solo? Go ahead. Nobody is stopping you or forcing anything on you. What you’re doing here is sitting and whining “It’s too haaard, mommy make the game easy for me”.

Also the definition of fun by google:
“Adjective: Amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable: “it was a fun evening”."

Some people find hard enjoyable. Some do not. It does not mean that the game has to change to suit your needs though. You know what I don’t enjoy? WvW. However I don’t whine for it to be removed or changed to suit my own personal desires.

I am with OP and I don’t mind the reward being scaled down. I don’t think it will hurt anyone or anything with this feature, just more options for the players.

I’d love a solo mode for everything. Especially fractals.

I would like to tell something to all people that think: “end forced grouping”
MMO is not for you.

What’s more, with some “individuals” abilities, making dungeons soloable for everyone would require an empty instance.

Ungood.3054:

I would like to correct this. There are several MMO’s that have instances that scale to the party size, and some MMO’s even have a Difficulty Setting on their Dungeon Instances.

Not every MMO is the same. You can’t compare the game mechanics of GW2 with Dungeons and Dragons and say that if it worked for D&D it will work for GW2.

There are two equally bad scenarios if Anet decides to add solo options :
-too easy for everyone
-too hard for half the playerbase. But if what they recently did with the Destroyer in CoF is any indication, it would probably be too easy.

And then, due to the nature of fights in GW2, the winning condition will simply be : DPS as much as you can. You can’t heal, apply cc and at the same time kill, so why buy time when you could simply kill ?
Also let’s not forget the modifications some dungeons will have to go through to not only make it possible for the vast majority (AC p1), but also possible mechanic wise (CoF p1, p3, CM p2, etc…)

Spiky.8403:

I would like to tell something to all people that think: “end forced grouping”
MMO is not for you.

What’s more, with some “individuals” abilities, making dungeons soloable for everyone would require an empty instance.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen ppl on map chat ask for help in killing x-y or z only to have a flood of “you can solo that” “why do you need a group” replies. A prime example was the Mad King Dungeon.

Since Fractals fewer ppl are doing dungeons at all. And gl to a new player trying to do a story mode or a Fractals lv1 o.o – Not everyone has hours to waste spaming chat or waiting for someone to have dinner, go to the loo, answer the phone and the normal gtg sorry… etc etc. Not including heroes and henchies from GW1 or replacing them with an alternate system for single play was a missed opportunity.

MMO’s are evolving away from the traditional and should be because their biggest claim is always “play the way you want”… and it’s about time they delivered on that claim imo. Why? Because the casual market is huge and has disposable income – to be successful games need both the player numbers and their money.

Ruby Red.4019:

Spiky.8403:

I would like to tell something to all people that think: “end forced grouping”
MMO is not for you.

What’s more, with some “individuals” abilities, making dungeons soloable for everyone would require an empty instance.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen ppl on map chat ask for help in killing x-y or z only to have a flood of “you can solo that” “why do you need a group” replies. A prime example was the Mad King Dungeon.

Since Fractals fewer ppl are doing dungeons at all. And gl to a new player trying to do a story mode or a Fractals lv1 o.o – Not everyone has hours to waste spaming chat or waiting for someone to have dinner, go to the loo, answer the phone and the normal gtg sorry… etc etc. Not including heroes and henchies from GW1 or replacing them with an alternate system for single play was a missed opportunity.

MMO’s are evolving away from the traditional and should be because their biggest claim is always “play the way you want”… and it’s about time they delivered on that claim imo. Why? Because the casual market is huge and has disposable income – to be successful games need both the player numbers and their money.

http://gw2lfg.com/

There you go. I was able to pick up story for AC, CoE and SE at the weirdest times possible (2 AM where there’s not really supposed to even be any players). I’ve seen plenty of successful Fractal lvl 1 LFGs too.

I agree some or all dungeons should be available to solo players.

I always play solo. I am not a great player, but that fact is not so obvious when I’m alone. I approach the challenges I’m presented in my own way.

Were I in a group, I’d be judged “bad” by the “serious” players.

DEVs – please make this change.

-Random

Nothing wrong with solo dungeons, so long as the reward for doing them is accordingly scaled down.

It might encourage more players to give it a try with a group if they get a chance to scope it out on their own first, where their mistakes only cost them and not everyone with them. Doing a dungeon for the first time, screwing it up for my companions is always my biggest concern. I think for a lot of people, that concern is an actual fear and it keeps them from some of the most interesting content in the game.

Flameseeker.8591:

I am with OP and I don’t mind the reward being scaled down. I don’t think it will hurt anyone or anything with this feature, just more options for the players.

So when when a fully optimized team (of 5) ‘farmers’ go CoF farming for (what?) 15min they ought to get more reward than a single player battling less difficulty for say 2-10x time investment?

So if your not playing a popular speed-farm profession your choices at this point are:
Forget about running dungeons.
Join a Guild that may (or may not) include you on their run(s).
Spend and enormous amount of time finding a group to go with.
Attempt the run solo and FAIL.
Invest the time/$$ in leveling+gearing a popular speed-farm profession ALT

If the dungeons actually scaled with the number of players and (heaven forbid!) actually scaled to the team running it then we’d have some interesting and dynamic content that everyone could enjoy.

Does anyone really think that the designer(s) intended these things to be ‘farmed’ in 15min or less? Really?

The fact this thread exists and has so much support is a clear sign that GW2 is doomed to the same ultracasual fate as WoW. I hope you people are happy with yourselves. You ruin everything you touch.

then i want duo, trio, 4 people options as well and 10people option as well for those with more then 5 people that wanna go

else we assume there is a reason its 5 people only balance

Tristavel.9218:

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s not a matter of being serious or not, it’s a matter of you wasting everyone’s time.

And that’s exactly the reason I believe the OP’s suggestion makes sense. It’s not really the matter of people being inherently rude/elitist/uncooperative, it’s the question of different attitudes to gaming.

As far as I’m concerned, I’m already “wasting time” playing the game. TBH, some of the “worst” (in terms of gaming effectiveness) experiences I had were actually the “best” (in terms of fun/memorable experience) ones at the same time. I don’t care that much about maximizing time/reward ratio, because that’s something I do at work and I really don’t need to bring this equation into simple fun. To me, skipping/glitching/speeding through content is a bit like listening to music at 2x speed just to save time.

I don’t think either of us is wrong as such, but at the same time – should we meet in a dungeon party – one of us would probably be somewhat annoyed by the other. And unless one is fortunate enough to have long time buddies play the game with him, such collisions are impossible to avoid – thus I believe OP’s suggestion is a sound one.

Won’t happen, but it would be a good thing IMO.

Instead of replying to some comments I am just going to re post this reply it basically says everything I would have..

Others think the solo players should have their rewards nerfed as a punishment for not playing the game their way and basically throwing a temper tantrum because they want to force everyone to play the game in a group the way they think it should be played

Spiky.8403:

I would like to tell something to all people that think: “end forced grouping”
MMO is not for you.

What’s more, with some “individuals” abilities, making dungeons soloable for everyone would require an empty instance.

This …..

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Defining-MMO/first#post1381605

MMO Does not necessarily mean “group interaction” . Period.

Vasham.2408:

The fact this thread exists and has so much support is a clear sign that GW2 is doomed to the same ultracasual fate as WoW. I hope you people are happy with yourselves. You ruin everything you touch.

Why? Because this would allow everyone to see all the content in the game, but still only reward those who take the hardest path with the best rewards?

Elitist kitten like you is what turn games into jobs. You kitten up everything you go near.

Spiky.8403:

Why ,for quaggan’s life, don’t you go and play tetris, solitare or something else singleplayer. Sorry but if you want to play solo in mmo game, you are not okay. I dont care about your definitions of mmo, just use brain for a while.

Ever wonder how many solo players are funding your game, smartass? Subsidizing your enjoyment with their cash? ArenaNet seems to have a clue, which is why they specifically designed their game to support players who like play the solo game, while still cleverly promoting grouping light, with many cooperative mechanics.

Fact: No SP game offers the longevity that an MMO provides.
Fact: No SP game offers the amount of content that an MMO provides.
Fact: No SP game offers the dynamism that other players provide in an MMO.

In case it needs explaining, that last part means that PCs make a more interesting backdrop for a world than NPCs because they act with their will upon the content, which is something no programmed AI can reproduce. But like NPCs, it doesn’t mean exploring that world is a better experience by dragging along another person with you.

Many people are nothing but anchors, slowing you down, hemming you in and interfering with your desire to do whatever it is you kittening want. When you’re in a group, you subsume your will to that of the group. Otherwise, you’re nothing but an kitten dictator. Some players don’t want to play by committee, hence they solo.

So how about you grease your grey matter, sport, and put it together how a person might enjoy the environment an MMO can offer, without feeling any need to spend so much as a minute of their time in game with — oh, maybe someone like yourself.

Spiky.8403:

Blacklight.2871:

Vasham.2408:

The fact this thread exists and has so much support is a clear sign that GW2 is doomed to the same ultracasual fate as WoW. I hope you people are happy with yourselves. You ruin everything you touch.

Why? Because this would allow everyone to see all the content in the game, but still only reward those who take the hardest path with the best rewards?

Elitist kitten like you is what turn games into jobs. You kitten up everything you go near.

Because everything that requires more that clicking auto attack button is hard for you, right? Done over 200 dungeons and never ever had game breaking issue with anyone there, maybe it’s on your side. If you feel you are forced to play, please, doors are this way.

Why do you think I’m speaking for myself? I prefer to dungeons in a group because I find it a lot more fun with the chaos a group can bring. But I know there are many people who will never see it because they are too worried about screwing something up for the people they are with to attempt it. Or maybe they can’t get a group together when they have the time for it. Or maybe they just suck as a player and can’t keep up with others. Or maybe they’re just antisocial and don’t want to be joined at the hip with a bunch of other players. Either way, why is it your business?

The question is why it’s kittening hard for people like you to allow someone to see game content if they don’t do it by your standards? What it is? You feel it diminishes your grand accomplishment if they start letting anyone into your special little club? If they aren’t receiving the same benefit as you (say no dungeon tokens) because they are seeing an easier version of the content, why should you give a kitten

It’s the same bullkitten attitude you see with any game with raiding in it. Raids are special content for special players. They aren’t meant for everyone. Garbage. Content is content and players should be rewarded according to the effort they put into it. If the content is scaled to allow a single player to experience it, it shouldn’t yield the same reward as content scaled up for five.

Of course that all breaks down when it’s not about the reward, but about keeping the riff raff out. And that’s what this argument is really about. Keeping some people out because they don’t conform to your idea of who an MMO player is.

I said it once, I’ll say it again : soloing dungeons would be all about DPS. Look at the guy soloing Arah, AC and CM right now : DPS and smart playing (with a little exploits for parts where it’s mandatory to be more than 1). If Anet really includes solo mode for dungeons you can throw “smart play” out of the window.

Blacklight.2871:

Vasham.2408:

The fact this thread exists and has so much support is a clear sign that GW2 is doomed to the same ultracasual fate as WoW. I hope you people are happy with yourselves. You ruin everything you touch.

Why? Because this would allow everyone to see all the content in the game, but still only reward those who take the hardest path with the best rewards?

Elitist kitten like you is what turn games into jobs. You kitten up everything you go near.

The problem is gaming is not a socialist thing. It’s is about those with skill outplaying those without. When you reward people for zero effort you destroy the very core of what makes a game a game in the first place. On a similar note it is very greedy and thoughtless of you to wish destruction of group content upon those who enjoy it, that people who don’t want to play solo must have their play style violated for your sake.

Vasham.2408:

The fact this thread exists and has so much support is a clear sign that GW2 is doomed to the same ultracasual fate as WoW. I hope you people are happy with yourselves. You ruin everything you touch.

Gosh really? I mean really? This is getting to be to much. The designers of this game are the real ‘losers’ here. They simply can’t win.

You know who’s to blame here don’t you? (I’ll get to that in a sec.)

They could make the content random and and totally unforgiving and EVERYONE would complain that there was no way of knowing what your facing or getting better as it would be different every time. No fair.

So to add some fairness the designers put in mechanics that ‘telegraph’ the attacks and follow a pattern that can be learned with time.

As far as the ‘forgiving’ nature goes – they gave us (for example) Lvl35 dungeons that simply punish Lvl35 players in Lvl35 gear. However they also gave us a way around much of that by leveling our toon’s and gear.

So in the end while I’ve YET to see a SINGLE video of (for example) Lvl35 players completing Lvl35 dungeons in Lvl35 gear what I DO SEE is line after line of Lvl80 players in Lvl80 Exotics lined up to play the Lvl35 content. Then we all get to see in the forums the same players complaining how easy the content is. (face palm)

Back in the day when ‘insane’ mode was not enough we’d simply “gimp” ourselves for challenge, entertainment and bragging rights. There are plenty of “sub optimal” professions and ton’s of cheap very weak gear in this game. (if your looking for any of the above)

Giving the player a ‘knife’ and placing them in a gun fight is unfair to the player. Equally a player that brings a rocket launcher to a knife fight and expects a ‘challenge’ is unfair to the developer.

Simply making some of the content actually playable for single players or sub optimal gear/team match ups does not ‘ruin’ the game, only taking all the best of whatever is available does.

M

Bottom line, it all comes down to options.

If you are a hardcore player then you are entitled to find a team and play in grouped dungeon instances as it is now.

If you are a casual player you should have the option to play a single player instance version at a much reduced reward scale.

There’s no rational argument against having additional options.

OK guys, you are probably missing the sick part of this thread. Making solo option for story dungeons is acceptable, but I guess none of you actually read first post. Let me quote it for you:

Please make the story dungeons easier and soloable without nerfing the rewards
I haven’t tried to join a group yet in gw2 <- THIS..

For me OP is the biggest egoist I’ve seen yet.

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164

:
I haven’t tried to join a group yet in gw2.

So why dont you try joining a group first before you complain ?

NovaBlast Shockwave.5164:

I keep seeing on here you are supposed to be able play the game the way you want. If I don’t want to join a group than I should be able to have that choice if the above in your overall goal.

Pls i would like all people who use this quote to stop a moment and consider where the limit to this kind of “I want” philosophy is. You cant always have what you want. Not even in a virtual world. There are people in this game who dont want to dodge boss attacks in dungeons. Should they also be able to play the game they want ? Should a group consisting of 5 of these players be able to do any dungeon and reap the rewards ?

RedStar.4218:

Ungood.3054:

I would like to correct this. There are several MMO’s that have instances that scale to the party size, and some MMO’s even have a Difficulty Setting on their Dungeon Instances.

Not every MMO is the same. You can’t compare the game mechanics of GW2 with Dungeons and Dragons and say that if it worked for D&D it will work for GW2.

First off: I was responding to Mirta who make the claim that no MMO designs dungeons for a single person. They are clearly wrong.

There are MMO’s that have their dungeons scale to the party size. This makes the game and it’s content more welcoming without making it a snore-fest.

Secondly: Yes you can compare the mechanics of one MMO to another, Players, Developers and Many MMO review sits do it all the time. It is a grand part of developing MMO’s to start with, as programmers and designers try to take the best and remove the worst of other MMO’s applying what was done well, to their next game, and improving or removing what was done poorly as well as trying to invent a few new things.

When the designers of GW2 discussed combat, they were looking for somethign between what AIon gives you and what Tera gives you. Hence the system they have in place today. It was built off of looking at how other MMO’s do it, and seeing what worked, what did not, and what may be the best solution overall. Now DDO has had active combat for the last 6 years, so GW2’ combat is not really intuitive or inventive, but they may have not looked at DDO’s combat system so they could very well think it was special in it’s own regard.

Which, like anyone, you know what you know. If you never played an MMO with Dungeon Scaling and Difficulty Settings, you would have no idea how they really worked and then make up all kinds of situations based on a lack of knowledge, and that of course would lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn.

In fact, it is the progressive nature of MMO’s and Humans in general to learn from what others have done, in both good and bad ways. That is the vast and important part of R&D, the Research side.

So you can bet sir, that you can very much so compare the game mechanics of DDO to GW2 and hypothesis if what worked for one could very well work for both.

There was solo option in Guild Wars 1. It was called henchmen and they were never used in dungeons and high level missions because of the limited control you had over them. Come Nightfall, we go heros. You could customise everything on a hero. Their build, their gear, everything! What happened? MOST missions, dungeons and the likes were soloed with heros! Maybe two people (siblings, couples, long time friends) would group but most people didn’t.

It was great in some ways, terrible in others. It worked for GW 1 BECAUSE it wasn’t an MMO in the traditional sense. However, GW 2 is an MMO in the traditional sense. I am not sure being able to “solo” dungeons in any way shape or form is the right way to go.

Maybe what we really need is a better communication and you know, actually read gw2lfg.com comments. I am already starting to see this but we need more. Something like, “LFG first time doing dungeon but am a serious player, no casuals” or “casual looking for fun, want to watch all cut scenes” or just being up front when you join a group with what you want out of the dungeon. Most people are pretty accommodating in GW 2 in my experience.

Tinni.4351:

There was solo option in Guild Wars 1. It was called henchmen and they were never used in dungeons and high level missions because of the limited control you had over them. Come Nightfall, we go heros. You could customise everything on a hero. Their build, their gear, everything! What happened? MOST missions, dungeons and the likes were soloed with heros! Maybe two people (siblings, couples, long time friends) would group but most people didn’t.

Did you ever stop to wonder why?

I mean. Sure, we can say many things like “because they could” but maybe it was because in many MMO’s you simply have to many people with incompatible play styles and mind sets when it comes to how to play the game.

I mean look at the guy (vasham) above nerd raging about how he feels casuals ruined his game. You think any player that has a casual outlook towards games wants to deal with the likes of that?

You bet they would rather solo with a “hero” then deal with players that are simply not fun to play with.

As for comments in GW2LFM, all that is, is exclusion. In reality, waiting for a “Casual” group to fill is not fun, as I would wager most casual players don’t use GW2LFM, that is more for the serious player anyway, again, just another means of exclusion.

In the end, just because you give players the means to interact, does not mean it is a good idea to force them to interact. It is not fun waiting for groups to fill, it is not fun dealing with a ‘bad’ player, and given people can kick you mid dungeon, the last thing anyone wants to join some snot like the above nerd rager, and their cronies to get kicked at the end because they were not “hard core” enough for them.

Grouping should be something that is optional, and something that players do because they enjoy doing it, it pulls away from the game when you force it upon people.

It’s like having the freedom to enjoy a piece of cake or having it shoved down your throat.

None of us are working at Anet, but for the purpose of this thread : how do you imagine a dungeon scaled for 1 player ? And don’t take an imaginary dungeon, take one that exists, from AC path 1 to Arah path 4.

I agree with the idea that the dungeons should be easily soloable by 1 player, but I do NOT agree with the OPs idea that all rewards should remain the same. Easier content should never have the same rewards as more difficult content. That’s a rediculous idea and is what most people posting here looked over.

Only STORY mode should be soloable and have its rewards removed, with maybe an exception made for the first play through. The story modes tie into your characters personal story and show you the evolution and growth of each member of Destiny’s Edge as they come to terms with what happened in the first GW, culminating in the final PS quest in Arah where you are FORCED to group to see the ending of something that was supposed to be a personal adventure.

Solo dungeons? Sure.
Same rewards as group dungeons? No.

If you aren’t willing to put in the effort of finding a group, and completing the content with a group of players, which is the main aspect of a MULTIPLAYER game, then you should not reap the rewards.

Sorry, but i agree with a lot of the posts, you’re the type of player that just wants everything spoonfed to him with minimal effort, games are meant to have challenges to maintain re-playability. If you want everything spoonfed to you on a silver platter, i suggest you go into the gaming industry and make your own game, good luck in it selling though.

Ungood.3054:

Tinni.4351:

There was solo option in Guild Wars 1. It was called henchmen and they were never used in dungeons and high level missions because of the limited control you had over them. Come Nightfall, we go heros. You could customise everything on a hero. Their build, their gear, everything! What happened? MOST missions, dungeons and the likes were soloed with heros! Maybe two people (siblings, couples, long time friends) would group but most people didn’t.

Did you ever stop to wonder why?

I mean. Sure, we can say many things like “because they could” but maybe it was because in many MMO’s you simply have to many people with incompatible play styles and mind sets when it comes to how to play the game.

I don’t have to stop and wonder why. I used to use heros all the time and before then make do with henchies if I could. The only human I played regularly with is my brother. Its not that I never grouped with people before or after heros but generally speaking I used heros or played with my bro because,

1. Socialising is hard
2. It was quicker – no waiting for groups
3. While my monk could always find a group, some of my other classes, especially my assassin (thief) often struggled.

HOWEVER, at some point you have to ask yourself – what is the point of an MMORPG. The MMO part means that by playing this game you tacitly agree to play with other people. Guild Wars is great in that you can do a lot without needing to interact with another living soul.

Want exotic gear? Craft or buy with Karma! No grouping needed. Want ascended gear? Do dailies! Monthlies usually have dungeon req but dailies never do. You can also explore the map, WvWvW, do jumping puzzle and a whole bunch of other things without direct groups or anything.

The ONLY time you HAVE to group is the Arah story mission. All the other story dungeons are optional but Arah story you have to do to complete personal storyline and thus is the only “compulsory” dungeon you have to do. That is the only time you have to forcefully group.

This is consistent with GW 1 where it was usually the last 3 or so missions were grouping with other humans were a benefit. Even after heros were introduced, tackling the last 2-3 missions in all the instalments were astronomically easier with human players.

I am sorry but if you cannot bring yourself to group for even that much, might I suggest a non-mmorpg?

Spiky.8403:

OK guys, you are probably missing the sick part of this thread. Making solo option for story dungeons is acceptable, but I guess none of you actually read first post. Let me quote it for you:

Please make the story dungeons easier and soloable without nerfing the rewards
I haven’t tried to join a group yet in gw2 <- THIS..

For me OP is the biggest egoist I’ve seen yet.

I say we make Story Mode harder. There’s no reason it can’t match explorable in difficulty.

I’d like to be able to solo EM too.

It’s crazy that some people are saying “Dungeons are about teamwork and sociability”.
Dungeons right now are about DPS, and that’s it. Most parties don’t /say anything at all besides “skip!!!”. And I do prefer experienced players, but a lot of times I feel like I’m playing with bots.

I believe that some people dislike this idea just because less players would be available for their fast runs.

This is the reason why I’d love to be able to solo/duo a dungeon, with scaled dificulty (no easy mode) and with same reward.

BUT, if I could really change anything, I’d prefer dungeons to require real teamwork, and not only the “time warp + 100b” kind of teamwork.

To the OP, you should sincerely try some runs with PuGs, not all of them suck (and by “suck” I don’t mean they are not efficient and competent). There are some cool people left in this game.
And if you enjoy playing solo, try learning a dungeon by running it a couple of times, after that I can assure you that sometimes you will even forget you are in a party with other people, because sadly I don’t see this change being implemented any time soon.

The real reason for not having solo dungeons is because it will force some people to realize they suck…and they can’t handle that truth.

It might also highlight class imbalances more than ANet wants to, and the increase in complaints about PvE and warriors would be too much for the boards to handle

Then again, it might be because some boss encounters are designed around multiple people, and re-tooling them for solo players is more effort than it’s worth.

Engels.8537:

I’d like to be able to solo EM too.

It’s crazy that some people are saying “Dungeons are about teamwork and sociability”.
Dungeons right now are about DPS, and that’s it. Most parties don’t /say anything at all besides “skip!!!”. And I do prefer experienced players, but a lot of times I feel like I’m playing with bots.

Except that not everyone can pull full glass cannon and get away with it. So until they learn to be better players, they need to rely on something else than full DPS.
Unless of course you consider CoF p1 as the best example…the path where there isn’t a single thing needed except full DPS : no conditions, no enemies boons, no projectiles, barely any need to dodge…the only thing aside from DPS that helps is poison and that’s it.

Tinni.4351:

I am sorry but if you cannot bring yourself to group for even that much, might I suggest a non-mmorpg?

I have a novel idea. How about you try to have a discussion without judgmental nonsense like this, after all, the last person who should be telling me how to play my game is someone who spent their GW1 life clinging to a Bot and their Brother because Socializing is Hard. mmm’kay

Now. Not to Website as on the Internet, but, I was leading 40+ man raids into the Planes of EQ before the idea of instance dungeons existed and I am sure many others who play this game can make the same claim, and I would not be surprised if they too would like to be able to log in and do a dungeon without needing to dredge up 4 yokels to make that happen. Simply because life changes in 10 years, You know, wife shows up, kids come into the mix, and some days you need to just get up and take care of the dog, and the rest of the group should not have to wait and watch you admire your sword for the next half hour or have to kick you out of the group.

Now, to also clue you in, Dungeons don’t come into play till your 30th, and here is the headliner, GW2 Did not suddenly and magically become an MMO because I had to invite 4 people I never met before to go do an instance dungeon, Nor would GW2 magically poof and cease to be an MMO if we could solo that instance.

So let it go. If you want to have a discussion, make an effort to make a point and not a personal attack.

RedStar.4218:

None of us are working at Anet, but for the purpose of this thread : how do you imagine a dungeon scaled for 1 player ? And don’t take an imaginary dungeon, take one that exists, from AC path 1 to Arah path 4.

Actually. At this point, I would not suggest modifying the existing paths and dungeons in GW2. They are pretty much established as they are.

I would simply suggest adding in perhaps additional paths to each dungeon that were “Easy mode” or “Small Group” designed which awarded less.

-OR-

Add in “Mini-Dungeons” designed for 1 – 3 people, and have them hard capped so that you could not enter if you had a group of more then 3 people.

You could even keep the theme going, like as opposed to A-Catacombs you make A-Crypts. Using the same maps, just new mobs, toned down. As opposed to Lt Kholer, you have Sargent Curbstomp.

The dungeons award the same as the 5 man dungeons, but also count towards the 5 man dungeons as far as DR goes. IE: Path 1 and Path 2 of A-Crypt count towards the DR of A-Catacombs Path 1 and Path 2.

They could even revamp fractals to fill this nitch, as opposed to touching the dungeons at all and have Mini-Dungeons in the Fractals, that relate to the World Dungeons so players could run a mini-AC or a Mini-CoE, etc, etc, That was just a quick, 1 – 3 person run, takes 5 min and awards like 10 tokens.

Rift has solo dungeons I don’t see why this game can’t……

MMo’s in general, by its very nature your going to have both extremes. Your going to have good days in dungeons especially when you find a suitable group at your skill level and bad days when you join a pug who don’t mesh and/or can beat the dungeon.

Reaver.9256:

Rift has solo dungeons I don’t see why this game can’t……

Yeah I remember those. They’re called Chronicles. They’re also a complete waste of developer effort.

Ungood.3054:

Tinni.4351:

I am sorry but if you cannot bring yourself to group for even that much, might I suggest a non-mmorpg?

I have a novel idea. How about you try to have a discussion without judgmental nonsense like this, after all, the last person who should be telling me how to play my game is someone who spent their GW1 life clinging to a Bot and their Brother because Socializing is Hard. mmm’kay

So let it go. If you want to have a discussion, make an effort to make a point and not a personal attack.

That’s rich coming from a guy who made an entire post that’s full of nothing but personal attacks. Also, WHY do you think I said socialising was hard? Socialising isn’t just about playing nice with people, although that’s part of it but it is also about everything you described. People have individual needs, rl commitments that limit their in-game abilities. Including the time they can spend playing, waiting for groups etc. All these things are part of socialising is hard and all these things is why the OP and you yourself want the “bots” back because heros and henchies allowed a 5 man dungeon to be done without by a single person plus 4 heros and henchies. I.e. essentially it was done solo.

I get it, I really do. You have RL commitments that limit your play time and so you want to solo dungeons so you can play at your own pace. I have time constraints too. I like playing at my pace too. But I think you are totally missing the point where dungeons are your own personal bubble into which no one can intrude. It doesn’t matter if you are grouping or not when you are just messing around in PvE or WvWvW. You are there with other people or at least there is the potential for another person to be in the same zone as you. This is what makes GW 2 an MMO.

However, as soon as you enter an instance, you are in your own world and if you are not in a group, you are instantly in an a single player game. This is why I never thought of GW 1 as an MMO but more a single player with the potential to co-operative play. Same as Diablo III.

But here is the thing though, you and the OP want this change because of your personal limitations. It has nothing to do with the game. The game will not benefit by having a solo option for story mode. All it will really do is turn dungeons into an extension of open world PvE, where everything but champions (and even some of those) are soloable, with maybe slightly tougher mobs. It doesn’t add anything to enrich the game. I rather NOT have developer energy wasted like that.

Vasham.2408:

Reaver.9256:

Rift has solo dungeons I don’t see why this game can’t……

Yeah I remember those. They’re called Chronicles. They’re also a complete waste of developer effort.

Maybe for your playstyle, but I loved them and think they are well worth developer effort. Sounds like other people do to.

Tinni.4351:

Ungood.3054:

So let it go. If you want to have a discussion, make an effort to make a point and not a personal attack.

That’s rich coming from a guy who made an entire post that’s full of nothing but personal attacks.

I was polite to you, until you lacked the social graces to be polite back.

doesn’t matter if you are grouping or not when you are just messing around in PvE or WvWvW. You are there with other people or at least there is the potential for another person to be in the same zone as you. This is what makes GW 2 an MMO.

You are correct, The fact that this game gives mass expanses of land an entire world where we interact, that is what makes it an MMO.

The fact that you can ask as question and I can give an answer, the fact that you can buy my goods, and we can just walk by each other in the streets of lions arch or be standing next to each as dozens of people gather to slay a dragon.

That is what makes it an MMO.

In fact. the idea that I have people around me, that I can group with, or opt not to group with, is what makes it an MMO.

However, as soon as you enter an instance, you are in your own world and if you are not in a group, you are instantly in an a single player game.

Nope. I’m still in an MMO. I can STILL invite people if I want to. I can still chat on Guild chat, send Whispers, sell and buy on BL, and even send and receive mail, I did not go away into my own little world. I did not suddenly enter a single player game any more then if I logged on at a uncommon hour and went to a map zone that had no one in it. Or if I was killing mobs in a place no one seemed to go to, and because I am still pretty new here (only been playing a month) I tend to find quite a few vacant areas as I explore this game and I don’t feel like I left an MMO simply because I have not seen anyone for the last hour.

With that put out, I’ll say it again.

GW2 did not suddenly and magically become an MMO because I was forced to get 4 people to help me with a dungeon, it would not magically cease to be an MMO if I could have soloed said dungeon or done it with 3 people as opposed to 5.

In the end, while I personally enjoy grouping, always have really. Giving players choices, allows them freedom to play the game in a manner they will enjoy. If they are timid and don’t feel like joining groups they should not be punished, if they have a 3 person static group they should not be punished because they need 5. etc, etc. You get the idea.

Choices are good. Options are Good. That is why we have more then one class and more then one set of gear.

I would suggest giving DDO a shot to get a real good feel on how instance Dungeons can work, allowing people to solo or hit them with full groups, as they feel up to doing.

TL/DR. Having Options and Choices are Good.

Spiky.8403:

OK guys, you are probably missing the sick part of this thread. Making solo option for story dungeons is acceptable, but I guess none of you actually read first post. Let me quote it for you:

Please make the story dungeons easier and soloable without nerfing the rewards
I haven’t tried to join a group yet in gw2 <- THIS..

For me OP is the biggest egoist I’ve seen yet.

You don’t get anything worthwhile for story dungeon rewards anyway. Why would you care if the rewards for story mode was nerfed or not?

The OP were talking about making story modes soloable. You know, the ones that rewards you 26 silver, some karma and a hat the first time you complete them, and apart from that might net you some blues and greens and the stray copper here and there, possibly netting you another whopping 25 silver. It’s not like it’s lucrative to run story mode as is, if it was, people would be doing it on a regular basis since they are (supposedly) easier than explorable. And since the suggestion from the OP was to make storymode soloable, and the rewards as is are pretty abysmal, there is no reason to nerf the rewards for soloable storymode.

Me, I’m all in favour for that. Would be nice if perhaps we could make a party using the people we befriended and picked up during the personal story, a la GW1 Henchmen. Stories should be aviable to everyone. Explomode is a whole nother beast, and this thread wasn’t about them.

Remember how players complained about NPC’s AI in GW1 ? Do you honestly think the situation would be any better in GW2 ?

Ok me and my wife tried out now our first dungeon. And like there are currently i must say that this is just completely unfair.
It has been said that GW2 scales things to the size and level of people involved. Now in the world with the events works that fine. Now i don’t see why this doesn’t work at all in the Dungeons.
Me and my wife have together complete the Mad King Dungeon and the Christmas Dungeon. We needed for some a hour where others probably run through it in 10 minutes, but that was ok after all we knew that it was designed for more people. So i can live with it that its harder. BUT
Now we tried with our characters which are both at Level 80 the first Dungeon (Ascalonian Catacombs) in Story Mode which is after all supposed to be easier than exploring. And what happened? One!! normal enemy gave us hell. After 40 minutes of being just past 6 NORMAL enemies and having died already plenty of times, we broke of the Dungeon.
And now i am writings this post, then for me this is just simply unfair.
I am being forced to group with people together just to get to know how the Story of GW 2 (which is probably one of the most important or interresting story of GW2, we dont know yet cause we cant play it) goes and that is not what i so far have experienced in GW1+2.
Again i am writing here about the story mode of Dungeons and about fighting normal Enemies, no Dungeon bosses. Currently i get a good Diablo 3 feeling in this Dungeons.

So adding a Solo mode for the Story Dungeons? Yes for sure!! Why have everywhere else a scale system so that people can choose if they want to go solo, go with a group of 2, or 3, or 6, but not here?? The System is in the game, simply use it!

Currently the Story Dungeons aren’t hard, they are impossible.

And honestly even the forced group finding doesn’t seem to be that easy, as countless people are standing outside of the Dungeon but hardly anyone is going in.

Quite many paths are soloable.

Anka.3675:

The OP were talking about making story modes soloable. You know, the ones that rewards you 26 silver, some karma and a hat the first time you complete them, and apart from that might net you some blues and greens and the stray copper here and there, possibly netting you another whopping 25 silver. It’s not like it’s lucrative to run story mode as is, if it was, people would be doing it on a regular basis since they are (supposedly) easier than explorable. And since the suggestion from the OP was to make storymode soloable, and the rewards as is are pretty abysmal, there is no reason to nerf the rewards for soloable storymode.

Me, I’m all in favour for that. Would be nice if perhaps we could make a party using the people we befriended and picked up during the personal story, a la GW1 Henchmen. Stories should be aviable to everyone. Explomode is a whole nother beast, and this thread wasn’t about them.

OOOO whopping 25 silver!

/sarcasm off.

Even if you made story mode of those dungeons soloable there are easily alot of ways to farm for much more coin in much shorter times.

I could make more coin just out in the world killing trash mobs and doing world events for the same amount of time someone could conceivably solo a story instance, not to mention numerous farming runs I can do in exp dungeons or fractals.

i did not read all of this but i prefer to play the game in group.. i know is harder and takes more time but its fun.. thats the main reason for online games.. however i think a SOLO DUNGEON STORY would be great