Guild Wars 2

Stacking & skipping content (imo) means missing out on what’s actually enjoyable in PvE and replacing it with tedious and boring exploitation. (Molten Fractal is a prime example. Might be the wrong name on that one though).

It seems to me that people can’t bare to play the content in a fair manner, if there’s an easy (& cheesy) way of playing it with no challenge what so ever and most importantly offers an increase in their gold/time -ratio.

The only solution might be to fix the terrain. If that doesn’t work for whatever reason, then I can think of a solution, just from the top of my head: Adding lethal but easy to avoid AoEs. You can do a hellova lot by just adding a mechanic to the fight, while still keeping it entirely relevant for the fight.

Espionage.3685:

Isn’t this what fractals are for though (forgive me if I’m far off with that assumption though; never actually did any yet)? From my “very” limited understanding of them, aren’t they like mini-version variants of dungeons you should be familiar with?

No that’s not what fractals are for, in fact fractals has terrible rewards for the time it takes. Fractals are also nothing like the dungeons.

Espionage.3685:

Also, I’m pretty sure either fully clearing dungeons, or skipping through them 400 times will end up pretty boring either way.

It’s a balance between effort and “fun” where the right amount of meaningful effort can be fun. Things are not black and white where fun = this and boring = that. Anyone who says otherwise is just being stupid.

Espionage.3685:

As for your reasoning why you want to quickly clear dungeons; that’s like stating you should be able to insta-boost to level 80 in full exotics because you’ve leveled plenty (plenty being different for every person) of other characters to 80 in the past.

His reason is quick gold. Some people like seeing their money go up. Some people like doing dungeons as clean and efficient as possible. Btw a little gold you CAN instaboost to lv80 with full exotics. If you dont like clean and efficient runs then that’s you, don’t expect people to be like you.

Espionage.3685:

I haven’t tried making a group requesting full-clears/no stacks, mostly because I just assumed most people rather “take the easy way”. I’ve never seen any group advertised that stated no stacking and/or no skipping, so with that in mind, I didn’t really assume anyone to be interested in such a thing.

There are people who want full-clear and no stacking. A simple “LFG no stacking/full clear” is so easy to do I wonder why you haven’t done it. Either improve your social skills or pay someone to do what you ask.

What you experienced in skipping and stacking is how garbage groups try to emulate efficient groups where they just stack mindlessly without thinking of how that could be a better approach to an encounter or maybe they just don’t have the skills to pull it off.

Do not force other people to adapt to your individual preference, makes you look like a richard.

Phadde.7362:

Adding lethal but easy to avoid AoEs. You can do a hellova lot by just adding a mechanic to the fight, while still keeping it entirely relevant for the fight.

You mean like the Risen Mage’s wells in Arah, or the Illusionist’s chaos storm? Or maybe the Spider Queen’s poison spray? Or Subject Alpha’s numerous AoE attacks? Plenty of mobs use AoE’s while players are stacked, the players use their skills and dodges to negate these AoE’s and kill the mobs before they run out of defensive cooldowns. There are only a few places where stacking in a certain spot truly negates all attacks a boss has, and that is mostly due to terrain.

only 1 way to eliminate perma-stacking

Make mobs with movement, AI that knows how to backstep/sidestep, zoning, CC and burst. Then there will be a proper challenge. Typical MMO unavoidable damage or continuous damage is just lazy and dumb.

tl;dr – make mobs smarter (much effort) or don’t touch them at all

Stacking in one picture (pro paint skillz)

yayuuu.9420:

Stacking in one picture (pro paint skillz)

Because the only reason people stack is because spider queen.

But, nice paint skills anyway.

The whole stacking thing is due to there is no tank or taunt abilties in GW2. The main job of a team is to group the enemys into a sweedish, 1 dot ball and kill them. since there is no way to group alot of enemy’s, the stack performs this for us without having to have any specific skillset or trait. stacking is the only easy fast way to get things to ball since you cant just run around and tank it into a ball or have any way of effective aggro control. most of us know in any MMO having some type of tank, aggro control, etc is pretty essential to any type of organized play. without trinity, the wall is our tank.

Burst/Spike attacks have always been the key to killing enemys over sustained dps, and stacking forces the team to DPS together rather than have 1 guy ressing, 1 guy casting, 1 guy dodging etc. In gw1 if you didnt have a proper high dps spike, monsters could heal back up (Margonite Ki/Dream Rider in Foundry) and you literally had to sync dps on 1 target or things wouldnt drop or be so deadly, you would die if you didnt burst on them quick enough. GW2 is very forgiving about having sustained dps/healing power be viable because you will be tanky enough to sustain forever. To most people, burst is still perfered.

I would suggest to OP play with newer players as they tend to kinda do whatever they want, and if this is the gameplay you want, they tend to adapt closer to this playstyle. key terms like “all welcome” and other things will indiciate a group less prone to skipping. words like “speedrun, 80s only, AP x+ points or kick, ZERKER PING, NO NOOB, EXP ONLY” will all more likely than not be a stacking/rushing group.

PSA – If we are dictating how people should play, then I say we make it mandatory that everyone be running meta. Why? Because I don’t like how other people play even when I have a choice not to group with them. Sound familiar, anti-stacking friends?

I don’t understand why people aren’t doing dungeons in RP walk. I mean, it is what the devs intended, and I know this because the dungeon NPCs movement. I keep getting kicked from groups for doing it, and I don’t know why!

swiftpaw.6397:

PSA – If we are dictating how people should play, then I say we make it mandatory that everyone be running meta. Why? Because I don’t like how other people play even when I have a choice not to group with them. Sound familiar, anti-stacking friends?

The way the OP and a lot of players who post these threads see it is, Stacking, Skipping, Zerking, ect. has become the first and usually only solution players use get past the challenges that dungeons present.
It’s the this Mob, stack on it! It’s that Mob, stack on it! It’s the final boss, stack on it!

Aside from a few select encounters, everything is solved by Stacking or Skipping.
It’s the near universally accepted universal tactic, and if you don’t like it, your chances of finding a dungeon group or not getting kicked from a dungeon group drop drastically.
The worst part is, in dungeons you’re supposed to make decisions and take risks, that’s what make it interesting.
With Stacking and Skipping being so dominant, there is little to no decision making. You do what you do because someone else says it’s the best, you bring what you bring because someone else says it’s the best. You don’t make decisions, you follow the program set out before you by the pros, get your pay and move on.
At the point a dungeon’s not a leisurely activity anymore, it’s a job akin to working grill at McDonalds. (although I could go so far as to say, the Grill presents more challenges and pays better)

I made a post about stacking on reddit a few weeks back, I got called a moron and it’s a non issue etc.

it’s incredibly boring to stack and I’ve flat out stopped doing dungeons because of it…I’m so kittening bored of huddling in a corner.

Anet needs to add cleave to everything.

Flame Of The Titan.3649:

I made a post about stacking on reddit a few weeks back, I got called a moron and it’s a non issue etc.

it’s incredibly boring to stack and I’ve flat out stopped doing dungeons because of it…I’m so kittening bored of huddling in a corner.

Anet needs to add cleave to everything.

Yeah, this is a good example of why these threads have started to appear regularly now. (Bread’s response too) The stacking community has become so hyper defensive of their desire to have quick flawless runs that they drive the other player base away. If you join a group blindly, you can safely assume it’ll be a stacking group.
As such the stackers, who all by default have a common goal and tactic are pretty much unified as a playerbase, and casual crowd divided and dispersed, afraid to show their faces for fear of getting the abused by the stackers for not playing their way.
I’m beginning to think that it’s gotten to the point where ANet needs to make 2 channels in the LFG, one for Speedrunners and one for casuals. That way both groups could have their runs their way without fear of having to tolerate their conflicting opinions.

or or ooooor…i know this idea is crazy…label your own LFG.

WOW i think i redefined grouping!

You know what you want, you know what you have to do to get it, yet you do not do so. Genius

It’s your choice. You can make your own group and specify no stacking. It’s not hard and just look at all the people who want no stacking, there’s tons of threads and posts on this now so you have no excuse.

Bread.7516:

or or ooooor…i know this idea is crazy…label your own LFG.

WOW i think i redefined grouping!

You know what you want, you know what you have to do to get it, yet you do not do so. Genius

The thing is, most of the casual base has been bullied out of dungeoning, so chances are they won’t be looking. You can put the LFG up, but no one will join you if they’re all afraid to look. If they make a second channel, then all of a sudden the casual community will have a bastion where they can stick their necks out. The mere gesture would be enough to get an influx of casuals, and possibly give that group some momentum, so the casual players will be happy, and the speed runners won’t have to worry about them stumbling into their runs.

Again, that attitude you’re sporting is driving my point home.

yayuuu.9420:

Stacking in one picture (pro paint skillz)

Dual.8953:

Bread.7516:

or or ooooor…i know this idea is crazy…label your own LFG.

WOW i think i redefined grouping!

You know what you want, you know what you have to do to get it, yet you do not do so. Genius

The thing is, most of the casual base has been bullied out of dungeoning, so chances are they won’t be looking. You can put the LFG up, but no one will join you if they’re all afraid to look. If they make a second channel, then all of a sudden the casual community will have a bastion where they can stick their necks out. The mere gesture would be enough to get an influx of casuals, and possibly give that group some momentum, so the casual players will be happy, and the speed runners won’t have to worry about them stumbling into their runs.

Again, that attitude you’re sporting is driving my point home.

Ok, first of all, how do you know that most of the casual player base has been bullied out of dungeoning? Why do you assume that they are too afraid to even look?
According to your own words you haven’t even tried to set up such a dungeon group. Because you assume that no one will see it. But how do you know if you’ve never even tried?
As you point out the players against skipping threads pop upevery other day. If people are so vocal about their point of view in the forums, why can’t they be the same in the lfg?

Even if I consider you might be on to something about a portion of the playerbase being alienated from dungeoning by the stack/skip-player portion, how would a second channel even help? They most likely won’t even see it anyway by your own reasoning.

In addition why are you asking Arenanet to make the effort to create 2 different lfg channels when you can’t even be bothered to simply make the effort to try and advertise a playstyle for your own dungeon group?

To add insult to injury, you say the skip/stack player group bullied other players from dungeons, but at the same point you lack the grace to even try to advertise your own playstyle in the lfg tool?
At least the zerker/meta-playstyle (the bullies, remember) are socially aware enough to communicate what they expect from their fellow group members.
Something you didn’t even bother to try based on assumptions that have no solid foundation as far as I can tell.
Btw. I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong about this, If you can give me a decent source for your theory.

Sorry if I may sound a little harsh but your argumentation is inconsistent as far as I can see. And your refusal to even give it a try doesn’t particularly help your reasoning.

The only thing I can get behind is the notion that a ccertain amount of skipping and stacking is the default way people do dungeons. Even if it is quite often executed in a way that actually makes it more dangerous or time consuming because people either aren’t experienced enough at it or have seen it elsewhere an do it for the entirely wrong reasons.
We could argue that this should not be the default way as opposed to actually exploring a dungeon. But that only works the first few times and then prople will try and speed it up because once the novelty of exploration has worn off most people will do it for the rewards.
And I would hazard a guess that the majority of the playerbase has moved to the second stage so they will try to save time. Which will make stacking/skipping to a certain degree the default. Simply defined by the majority of the players.
I’ll admit this is also an assumption. And feel free to point this out to me as I have done with yours.
If more people actually advertised RP-dungeoning or an actual exploratory game style, then someone new and/or into this would most likely gladly pick up such an opportunity. But if even people who argue the point on the forums can’t be bothered to advertise in this way, I fear it is a lost cause.

A last addition: Usually “casual” means “has less time to spare for the game”. Someone with that backround might actually be glad if some time is shaved of the run, especially if they are doing it for the dungeon tokens or to earn gold for some thing or another..
So maye you could pick a different term for the people you are trying to advocate for. But even I have to admit that is arguing semantics to a certain degree.

Silberfisch.3046:

…At least the zerker/meta-playstyle (the bullies, remember) are socially aware enough to communicate what they expect from their fellow group members.

During the first few dungeons I did, I thought “why is everyone stacking in one spot”. I wasn’t told anything, and just followed it (I figured it was a rare occurrence).

There was one dungeon where somebody explained in-detail where to stack and run. That run also had plenty of partial and full-group wipes due to trying to run past stuff, along with taking over an hour to do (want to say close to two hours).

And note, I was also joining non-speed run groups too (so I wasn’t even aware ahead of time that there would be stacking nor skipping, aside from what to expect from previous experience). The social aspect you speak of is hardly there, except for a few rare instances, that I’ve seen anyway.

swiftpaw.6397:

The irony when these threads stack up on the front page and no one skips them.

They were conflicted, they wanted to skip the thread but wanted to stack on it as well. It seems as though the posters have terrible DPS though, as it’s been up for 2 days now.

Dual.8953:

Bread.7516:

or or ooooor…i know this idea is crazy…label your own LFG.

WOW i think i redefined grouping!

You know what you want, you know what you have to do to get it, yet you do not do so. Genius

The thing is, most of the casual base has been bullied out of dungeoning, so chances are they won’t be looking. You can put the LFG up, but no one will join you if they’re all afraid to look. If they make a second channel, then all of a sudden the casual community will have a bastion where they can stick their necks out. The mere gesture would be enough to get an influx of casuals, and possibly give that group some momentum, so the casual players will be happy, and the speed runners won’t have to worry about them stumbling into their runs.

Again, that attitude you’re sporting is driving my point home.

No the attitude im sporting is disgust upon people who need their hand held, people who can’t help themselves even when the solution to their problem is clearly in front of them; people that fail to be self sufficient and independent.

How much do you bet that i can get a whole party of 5 that doesn’t stack and skip with minimal effort? Put your money where your mouth is or don’t even open your mouth.

Let’s call it what it is, you people just don’t like making your own groups and listing the people you would like to dungeon with. You expect the majority of groups to be similar to your playstyle. Well news flash – even meta group compositions hardly get what they want until they play with enough people they like and put them on their list.

When someone positively promotes no stack no skip groups most people won’t care and rather support it, you guys can do what you want – best example is the PASSS thread until some genius mod merged it with another negative complaining thread just like this one.

Espionage.3685:

Silberfisch.3046:

…At least the zerker/meta-playstyle (the bullies, remember) are socially aware enough to communicate what they expect from their fellow group members.

During the first few dungeons I did, I thought “why is everyone stacking in one spot”. I wasn’t told anything, and just followed it (I figured it was a rare occurrence).

There was one dungeon where somebody explained in-detail where to stack and run. That run also had plenty of partial and full-group wipes due to trying to run past stuff, along with taking over an hour to do (want to say close to two hours).

And note, I was also joining non-speed run groups too (so I wasn’t even aware ahead of time that there would be stacking nor skipping, aside from what to expect from previous experience). The social aspect you speak of is hardly there, except for a few rare instances, that I’ve seen anyway.

Shiny, how you took that line out of context.

You said you did not join a run advertised as speedclear/zerker/meta/similar-things-in-abundance and I was talking about the advertisement in the looking for group tool. So the social aspect I was talking about actually happens before you join the group.
What you describe is a different problem altogether. I actually adressed that in this paragraph:

[…]
The only thing I can get behind is the notion that a ccertain amount of skipping and stacking is the default way people do dungeons. Even if it is quite often executed in a way that actually makes it more dangerous or time consuming because people either aren’t experienced enough at it or have seen it elsewhere an do it for the entirely wrong reasons.
We could argue that this should not be the default way as opposed to actually exploring a dungeon. But that only works the first few times and then prople will try and speed it up because once the novelty of exploration has worn off most people will do it for the rewards.
[…]

The group you joined made no description of what they expected. Thus in my book as well as yours I believe, they offer a free for all.
But the problem here is, what is viewed as the default. I adressed that as well. The default usually is defined by the largest portion of the player base.
Edit: Or if that is not applicable/unknown: What the person that opened the group believes it is.
I’ll grant you it might be off putting to get into a group that doesn’t do things the way you expect them to be done. But once you’ve hit the first hard spot, that can be adressed by communication.
If the group lacked a description and you are unclear of what they intend to do, ask them if in doubt.
I’ll grant a beginner the benefit of doubt not to ask that question right away because he may not expect that to be relevant. The same might apply to someone who came back after a long break.
Still if you joined a group with little description (for example only the path) expect a free for all. They should do the same if they don’t specify what players they are looking for.

And if you encounter something you are anfamiliar with “during the first few dungeons” why didn’t you ask about it? Unless your are dealing with total kittens someone usually takes the time to answer.
If not I’ll agree it’s their failure to communicate properly.

Edit: In additon a beginner who points out that they are new to something usually gets at least brief pointers of what to do. Sometimes even in depth explanation if someone in the group feels like that.
Otherwise we are back at failure to communicate, but that is hardly the norm. Though it might be more memorable, because bad memories have a tendency to stick out more.

We really shouldn’t bother entertaining these threads, other than posting

swiftpaw.6397:

If we are dictating how people should play, then I say we make it mandatory that everyone be running meta.

Well I tried to make a topic that includes all the common complaints so this subforum doesn’t look like LA mapchat. Aaaand into the thrashcan it went. Apparently it was not related to “Dungeons” but all this bullkitten “I hate stacking/skipping” and “I hate dredge nerf plz” is.

swiftpaw.6397:

The irony when these threads stack up on the front page and no one skips them.

/thread

/forum

Flissy.4093:

We really shouldn’t bother entertaining these threads, other than posting

swiftpaw.6397:

If we are dictating how people should play, then I say we make it mandatory that everyone be running meta.

But then they’d all wipe and tell us how dead DPS is no DPS.

I have some guild members that hates how dungeons are all about stacking, skipping, zerk ect. They spend most of their time on the queen’s dale and frostgorge trains, or leaching zergs in wvw…

Dual.8953:

The way the OP and a lot of players who post these threads see it is, Stacking, Skipping, Zerking, ect. has become the first and usually only solution players use get past the challenges that dungeons present.
At the point a dungeon’s not a leisurely activity anymore, it’s a job akin to working grill at McDonalds. (although I could go so far as to say, the Grill presents more challenges and pays better)

Just so you know, skipping is never going to go away for the current dungeons; ever. If, for the sake of argument, they made creatures not have a leash in dungeons – guess what? Everyone would bring a Thief to Stealth past it all. They can’t make the creatures ignore Stealth, because it’s a core mechanic to that Profession.

As for stacking, they could make all creatures have collision so that you couldn’t just stand inside their models forever and run through them. However, I’m sure most players would find it impossible to adjust to this, and would complain endlessly about getting pinned against walls by the unfair monsters.

In short: Any change about stacking and skipping would result in making current dungeons harder for the average (and below average) players. I honestly have no idea why everyone is so fixated on tweaking the current dungeons meta and difficulty. I’d much rather they come out with something new, because everything has been done to death already.

Silberfisch.3046:

We could argue that this should not be the default way as opposed to actually exploring a dungeon. But that only works the first few times and then prople will try and speed it up because once the novelty of exploration has worn off most people will do it for the rewards.
And I would hazard a guess that the majority of the playerbase has moved to the second stage so they will try to save time. Which will make stacking/skipping to a certain degree the default. Simply defined by the majority of the players.
I’ll admit this is also an assumption. And feel free to point this out to me as I have done with yours.

I did COE p3 run without stacking and only me and one guardian survived subject alpha. I was in party with players, who did this dungeon many times already, but with stacking. If you were right, they would be experienced enought to survive without stacking. After that I have asked them and they have never done it without stacking (the guardian too).

I would hazard a guess, that majority of the playerbase have never done dungeons without stacking and that they just mindlessly repeat what other players have showed them. Most of them doesn’t even know about the true reasons why everyone is doing it in the corners and not in the middle of the room (FGS Fiery Rush exploit and some more).

So what? Some people just dislike the “headless chicken” approach of playing this game. Some people like controlling the fight, even though they don’t have to.

You don’t need to stack to beat any encounter in this game. The fights are far from beeing hard enough to actually force you to use tactics.

If the enemies would be stronger, all these “I don’t want to pull a mob around a corner” or “tactics are lame, just tank’n’spank” guys would probably get murdered in dungeons. Why? Because enemies beeing significantly stronger would require you to use actual teamplay, tactics and preperation.
Fights in your typical PUG would most likely end in the one or two melees beeing slaugthered by the mobs, due to missing support, aswell as the lack of rezzing from the rest of the group which tries to spread out 1k range apart from them. After having their delight with the melees the “trashpack” would proceed to cheery pick one of the ranged guys after the other, resulting in continous wipes even at the first trashpack.

I would appreciate such changes made in the “PvE” part of the game. Mobs all around beeing significantly harder and less forgiving for approaching them in the wrong way. A pleasent side effect would be that all them stacking whiners stopping their complaints over this subject. However I guess they would just continue to whine how hard everything is and that it needs to be toned down.

You know nothing Agony.

Actually people are not stacking when the content is harder (try to stack in lvl 50 fractal, good luck).
How many times I have to explain, that staying close to each other is not the same as stacking. Stacking is when your whole party is directly in the corner to be able to EXPLOIT bad game mechanics that allows some skills to deal 20x more damage than intended.

Staying close to each other is GOOD, you can support party members like this. That’s how we play in fractals and melee are not dying because I’m using water fields under their feet when they are low in HP. We don’t stand in one corner like brainles dummies and just 12345 like some of the bosses in normal dungeons can be done.

yayuuu.9420:

You know nothing Agony.

Actually people are not stacking when the content is harder (try to stack in lvl 50 fractal, good luck).
How many times I have to explain, that staying close to each other is not the same as stacking. Stacking is when your whole party is directly in the corner to be able to EXPLOIT bad game mechanics that allows some skills to deal 20x more damage than intended.

Staying close to each other is GOOD, you can support party members like this. That’s how we play in fractals and melee are not dying because I’m using water fields under their feet when they are low in HP. We don’t stand in one corner like brainles dummies and just 12345 like some of the bosses in normal dungeons can be done.

Stacking is staying close to each other. It has nothing to do with exploits. If a group exploits while stacking thats not stackings fault. I assume you will give the example that spider queen stacking is exploiting. But weve all grown tired of how many times weve told people that spider queen works completely as intended when pulled to the corner and she can still wipe a group pretty easily in such a situation. There is no “exploit” being used there other than forcing the group to stay melee.

You can have both moving and corner stacks. Neither is an exploit.

Personally, I quit the game a few months after release and ran a couple of dungeons when stacking and skipping wasn’t a ‘thing’ yet.
And it was terrible, a lot of trash would kill you quickly, 1 hit or 2 hit kills were common and failing a single dodge would be the end.

It took ages to finally get to the end, dozens of wipes on bosses due to AoE that would instantly kill you and then the rewards at the end were terrible, the trash dropped a few silvers at most and the amount of rewards you got from bosses was not worth the time spent.

But, it was kind of fun regardless.

Here is my problem, I enjoyed the difficulty of killing all that trash and fighting the bosses without stacking and skipping, but it’s just not worth the time and especially when you wanted to do repeated runs it would just shatter your hopes and dreams of ever getting enough currency to buy a full set.

Now I came back a few weeks ago and was introduced to skipping and stacking.
Stacking and skipping takes away a lot of the challenge (tough skipping does present it’s own unique set of challenges.) but the effort/time and reward ratio’s were much more acceptable.
The ‘fun’ I gained from successfully completely running a dungeon was less on a per run basis, but the reduced frustration with terribly designed boss fights and trash packs balanced it all out.

Personally I wouldn’t mind being forced out of the skipping stacking, given that the rewards from trash and bosses are increased or made much easier to do, with me preferring an increase in rewards.

spoj.9672:

yayuuu.9420:

You know nothing Agony.

Actually people are not stacking when the content is harder (try to stack in lvl 50 fractal, good luck).
How many times I have to explain, that staying close to each other is not the same as stacking. Stacking is when your whole party is directly in the corner to be able to EXPLOIT bad game mechanics that allows some skills to deal 20x more damage than intended.

Staying close to each other is GOOD, you can support party members like this. That’s how we play in fractals and melee are not dying because I’m using water fields under their feet when they are low in HP. We don’t stand in one corner like brainles dummies and just 12345 like some of the bosses in normal dungeons can be done.

Stacking is staying close to each other. It has nothing to do with exploits. If a group exploits while stacking thats not stackings fault. I assume you will give the example that spider queen stacking is exploiting. But weve all grown tired of how many times weve told people that spider queen works completely as intended when pulled to the corner and she can still wipe a group pretty easily in such a situation. There is no “exploit” being used there other than forcing the group to stay melee.

You can have both moving and corner stacks. Neither is an exploit.

Ok, I agree, don’t fix stacking. Just fix skills that are exploited so there will be no reason to stacking. kthxbye.

Spider Queen doesn’t work as intended if you stack in the corner. Why do I say that? Whenever someone moves away from the stack , it triggers the right mechanics and the stacking group gets wiped. These aoe attacks of the boss don’t work there, so that is why it is labeled as an exploit. People that think they discovered “the most efficient way” by exploiting are quite wrong and this trend should be punished at least, until a solution will present itself from ArenaNet.

As Yayuuu said, in the worst case scenario, fixing these skills that are exploited will stop the trend and it’s the best solution as far as I’ve seen to this problem. Though fixing the boss mechanics would be even better.

Exploiting reaps away the thrill and satisfaction. Eliminating it will make the game so much better, and only the exploiters will find it hard as they actually have to play the game, which is very hard for them. These players are the only ones who defend this foul method, as of course they feel threatened by threads like this one.

Espionage.3685:

Harper.4173:

…ALSO
" If you really don’t want to go through long dungeons, why do them at all?"

Because I need the gold. I couldn’t care less about the dungeons that I do at the moment – i’ve done them so many times I can draw them from memory complete with encounters and dialogue.
I want to go in -get the gold – get out asap. And I’m not the only one.

As a side question : how many hours of gametime do you have and how many times have you run AC?

I have a feeling after you’ll have done the dungeons a couple hundred times your views on this will change.

Isn’t this what fractals are for though (forgive me if I’m far off with that assumption though; never actually did any yet)? From my “very” limited understanding of them, aren’t they like mini-version variants of dungeons you should be familiar with?

Also, I’m pretty sure either fully clearing dungeons, or skipping through them 400 times will end up pretty boring either way.

As for your reasoning why you want to quickly clear dungeons; that’s like stating you should be able to insta-boost to level 80 in full exotics because you’ve leveled plenty (plenty being different for every person) of other characters to 80 in the past.

I haven’t tried making a group requesting full-clears/no stacks, mostly because I just assumed most people rather “take the easy way”. I’ve never seen any group advertised that stated no stacking and/or no skipping, so with that in mind, I didn’t really assume anyone to be interested in such a thing.

Sins.4782:

Maybe the mods are as tired of seeing the daily “skipping/stacking exploiting” thread in the dungeon forum as we are?

I honestly didn’t figure this to be a popular issue at all, mainly because… everyone seemed to of done it, without question. But I guess it’s interesting to know it is at least discussed.

I would like then to ask you to stop commenting on the content and how it’s being done considering how unfamiliar you are with both what the player base wants but also with the game, the content and how GW2 works.

Also – your analogy is very wrong.
I don’t want to be inststa boosted to 80 – the equivalent would be crafting to 80.

Also Anet themselves agree the game can get boring – leveling has been made easier by :

Insta level 20 scrolls.
1 level scrolls.

Victor.8327:

Spider Queen doesn’t work as intended if you stack in the corner. Why do I say that? Whenever someone moves away from the stack , it triggers the right mechanics and the stacking group gets wiped.

If we’re all in melee range while not in the corner, the AOE doesn’t appear either. The AOE is a mechanic present to attack ranged people, because why on earth would the melee guys only be attacked by a boss?

Harper, I did AC hundreds of times and other dungeons aswell, though I still go without stacking/exploiting or without skipping. It’s because I just like the gameplay.
If you want quick gold please buy it via gemstore. Or learn how to gain it through other methods.
If the gameplay is not to your liking there are other games out there . Exploiting the game is no excuse.

Fror, it should attack everyone, as in no stacking/exploiting combat, everyone is affected by it. Defending an exploit is useless, same as telling lies to yourself.

Harper.4173:

Because I need the gold. I couldn’t care less about the dungeons that I do at the moment – i’ve done them so many times I can draw them from memory complete with encounters and dialogue.
I want to go in -get the gold – get out asap. And I’m not the only one.

Do you realise, that all the materials on trading post, legendary weapons and everything that you can buy is more expensive because you can earn gold faster?
If everyone was doing it slower (for example 1 run per 30 minutes instead of 1 run per 10 minutes), there would be 1/3 of the current gold in the game and prices would be 3 times lower.

You said, that you want to get gold asap and get out of the dungeon, but is it that you want to get gold just to have high numbers in your wallet? or you want to actually buy something? The amount of time to get something is more or less constant. You can do dungeons faster, but when other players can also do it faster, the gold looses its value.

One more thing, what is the other source of gold in the game? Selling stuff to NPC? I bet that is not the source of major part of the gold in the game. Dungeons daily reward! (No, selling stuff, like exotics or sigils, on trading post is not the source of the gold, because you don’t produce more gold into the game but just move the gold from one player to another).

Victor.8327:

Fror, it should attack everyone, as in no stacking/exploiting combat, everyone is affected by it. Defending an exploit is useless, same as telling lies to yourself.

It’s like saying that I must use all tools at my disposal. This is plain wrong. If I need to plant a nail and I have both a hammer and a screwdriver at my disposal, then I’ll hit twice with the hammer then screw the nail twice, then back again to the hammer. Does screwing a nail make sense? Because I don’t think so.

I’m not defending an exploit, I was only explaining you why this mechanic exists and is the tool for the Spider Queen. So please leave my shoes so I can get back in them: I know what I’m telling to myself and… you don’t

Victor.8327:

Spider Queen doesn’t work as intended if you stack in the corner. Why do I say that? Whenever someone moves away from the stack , it triggers the right mechanics and the stacking group gets wiped. These aoe attacks of the boss don’t work there, so that is why it is labeled as an exploit. People that think they discovered “the most efficient way” by exploiting are quite wrong and this trend should be punished at least, until a solution will present itself from ArenaNet.

As Yayuuu said, in the worst case scenario, fixing these skills that are exploited will stop the trend and it’s the best solution as far as I’ve seen to this problem. Though fixing the boss mechanics would be even better.

Exploiting reaps away the thrill and satisfaction. Eliminating it will make the game so much better, and only the exploiters will find it hard as they actually have to play the game, which is very hard for them. These players are the only ones who defend this foul method, as of course they feel threatened by threads like this one.

Many people have already said this, but I am willing to do it again. Spider Queen doesn’t use her AOE if everyone is standing in her melee range. The corner is just a cheap way for PUGs to LOS her into a position where she is unable to move back (keep in mind that every mob is moving away from you as soon as its target approaches the red circle under it – which you can see if you click on it). Basically, she is cornered and not being able to move back so the players don’t risk being put in her AOE range.

Actually, you could do the same with any wall/corner inside her room. Remember the old days when people used to fight her inside and sometimes you would only see half of her body because she was pushed into a wall (like Dwayna sometimes when a zerg is fighting her)? So you might be wondering why people are not doing that – since it wouldn’t even require much effort, just 1 timed mesmer pull (for example).

The reason are the little spiders in her room. They get grouped up if you LOS the boss in the “evil” corner and you can kill them faster so your group doesn’t risk a wipe. It’s NOT because that’s the fastest way to kill the boss. Since her HP pool is very low, the fastest way to kill her would be shouting YOLO, running into her room, spawning her asap and moving into her melee range where you burst her down while chaining reflect skills against spider adds and gargoyle heads. What do I want to say with that? My point is that using the corner you were talking about is just a lazy way to fight the boss. The boss not being able to use her AOE in melee range is INTENDED, point. That’s why you can NOT say it’s exploiting. You and other people are throwing this word around like nothing without understanding the meaning. Maybe it’s a cheap tactic, but not more than that.

When you are talking about skills being exploited, do you mean the boss or player skills? If you meant the boss, see above. When it comes to player skills, there is a lot of controversity (FGS rush being the most popular example) and I don’t want to start this old discussion again.

About the fun factor, that’s just your opinion. Most people I know would disagree with what you said. Seeing how expl stacking is the most popular way to fight that boss, removing that wouldn’t make people pew pew her inside her room on their P/P thieves who carry but not use Scorpion Wire. No, the new tactic would become using 2+ elementalists to kill her faster than the AOE would kill you. a) You want the game to be different just for the sake of it, b) you’re not thinking about consequences.

Sorry for my bad English

Most players you are pugging with have done it hundreds of times. Imo. So the likelyhood of you pugging with players like you is very low. In my experience maybe 1% of runs turns into a nonstack nonskip run on its own. Players that you want are doing maybe one dungeon run per week or even only doing each path once. Good luck crossing paths with them!

Stacking and skipping is just faster for those that want gold ect.

Maybe that is how those players beat the dungeon. Why should they be judged? That is why they are kittened…you insult their ability or imply that they are bad of course you are not well recieved.

Speed running is a challenge to some. How fast can we do it? Similar to completing with four, three, two, or one player it is the challenge.

Some content just seems to scream that it was designed to be navigated and not killed.

Skipping or navigating your way through can actually be fun.

I pretty much stick with the easiest dungeon so I will use it as an example. AC path 1….gathering the sceptre pieces … it really is fun to avoid the mobs and snatch the pieces. And navigating the maze through the mobs is enjoyable. More challenging and fun than beating them all to death. They are just innocent animals why must we kill every last oneof them?

Roleplay or immersion….SE story mode we are their to help the Dredge is it really necessary to kill them all? Is it not more helpful to sneak past as many as possible so as to avoie butchering them needlessly?

Off topic but Ive discovered something I enjoy in AC. Ill make a party of under 80s except for myself Im on an 80 ele and we will stack the spider. In the past this has been a painful experience but now I will stay in staff water which aoe heals as I attack. This keeps them all at full health. It takes about four times as long as a good 80 group but it is very smooth.

AC path 3….the final boss was not stacked before the dungeon revamp…. actually that boss was fun before the revamp…. after the revamp there was a problem with the npc which made it nearly impossible to do… the npc was stupid it would get itself killed and would attack the boss instead of putting up the protective bubble, causing a party wipe. It was necessary to stack in a safe spot. Later the npc was fixed but by then the meta was established. The boss is stupid easy to do without stacking…. so easy it is a joke…. so easy it is possibly even more boring than stacking it trust me. Try it. That boss should be put back the way it was. Path 2 and 1 are better now though.

But im off topic. I’ll do a nonstack noskip with you just add me. Better not Arah though I have not done Arah yet.

swiftpaw.6397:

The irony when these threads stack up on the front page and no one skips them.

Post of the week. I’m really tempted to make swift’s line my sig.

yayuuu.9420:

You know nothing Agony.

Actually people are not stacking when the content is harder (try to stack in lvl 50 fractal, good luck).
How many times I have to explain, that staying close to each other is not the same as stacking. Stacking is when your whole party is directly in the corner to be able to EXPLOIT bad game mechanics that allows some skills to deal 20x more damage than intended.

Staying close to each other is GOOD, you can support party members like this. That’s how we play in fractals and melee are not dying because I’m using water fields under their feet when they are low in HP. We don’t stand in one corner like brainles dummies and just 12345 like some of the bosses in normal dungeons can be done.

I think it is you who knows nothing.

Do you really think people will be happy if stacking gets fixed? They will just find the next best thing to complain about and start new waves of complaining. For example how zerker deals too much damage, skipping is exploiting, Melee is too strong, etc.

Players here complain on how say the spider queen get’s “exploited” by pulling her around the corner.
She’s not and the same goes for most other dungeon mobs that get pulled into a stack of players. There are only very few examples out there where stacking around a corner actually is glitching/exploiting a boss, alphard for example (a very special corner). If you consider the usage of LOS as an exploit, you might aswell ban every decent PvP player.

Do you mindlessly run into the ascalonian groups at fotm level 50? Or do you try to get them together by, lets say staying behind a corner and waiting for the ranged mobs (monks etc) closer together so you can actually use CC effectively?
But tbh, running in like a headless chicken would probably also work quite well if you just stack enough defense and heal in your party. The runs would take forever, but there aren’t really that many encounters that force you to deal a minimum amount of damage in order to beat them.

I have had to hear a lot of kittenty stacking complaints, along others like simin beeing unbeatable or TA f/u completely broken. The “resolves” to these “issues” never failed to amaze me in how bad they were.

Easy “fix” for spider: Let her use her AoE even when every player is within melee range. Oh and also let her drop some extra poison fields, just for good measure, and let the gargoyle head respawn after a minute or two. And since we can’t have nice things, also make her web spray instant.

So from what I gather is that this thread was posted elsewhere then dropped off in the dungeon forum where threads go to die.

I would suggest anyone that doesn’t like stacking and skipping go here, and hit up the OP of this thread, last I read they are making a no stack/skip guild.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Players-Against-Stacking-Skipping-Stuff/first

Agony.3542:

yayuuu.9420:

You know nothing Agony.

Actually people are not stacking when the content is harder (try to stack in lvl 50 fractal, good luck).
How many times I have to explain, that staying close to each other is not the same as stacking. Stacking is when your whole party is directly in the corner to be able to EXPLOIT bad game mechanics that allows some skills to deal 20x more damage than intended.

Staying close to each other is GOOD, you can support party members like this. That’s how we play in fractals and melee are not dying because I’m using water fields under their feet when they are low in HP. We don’t stand in one corner like brainles dummies and just 12345 like some of the bosses in normal dungeons can be done.

I think it is you who knows nothing.

Do you really think people will be happy if stacking gets fixed? They will just find the next best thing to complain about and start new waves of complaining. For example how zerker deals too much damage, skipping is exploiting, Melee is too strong, etc.

Players here complain on how say the spider queen get’s “exploited” by pulling her around the corner.
She’s not and the same goes for most other dungeon mobs that get pulled into a stack of players. There are only very few examples out there where stacking around a corner actually is glitching/exploiting a boss, alphard for example (a very special corner). If you consider the usage of LOS as an exploit, you might aswell ban every decent PvP player.

Do you mindlessly run into the ascalonian groups at fotm level 50? Or do you try to get them together by, lets say staying behind a corner and waiting for the ranged mobs (monks etc) closer together so you can actually use CC effectively?
But tbh, running in like a headless chicken would probably also work quite well if you just stack enough defense and heal in your party. The runs would take forever, but there aren’t really that many encounters that force you to deal a minimum amount of damage in order to beat them.

I have had to hear a lot of kittenty stacking complaints, along others like simin beeing unbeatable or TA f/u completely broken. The “resolves” to these “issues” never failed to amaze me in how bad they were.

Easy “fix” for spider: Let her use her AoE even when every player is within melee range. Oh and also let her drop some extra poison fields, just for good measure, and let the gargoyle head respawn after a minute or two. And since we can’t have nice things, also make her web spray instant.

Did I said anything about LOS being an exploit? NO, I’ll repeat, NO!
I’ll repeat over 9000: The exploit is when you use the kitten Fiery Rush, Fiery Whirl,
Whirlwind Attack, Charge (Norn’s Racial), Charge (Flesh Golem’s skill) and block it in the corner. This is obvious exploit!
Also the inability of bosses to use their skills when players stack on them is a bad encounter design and should be changed to make this game more action oriented.

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

Don’t give them ideas, teach… remember the silver Arah spiders?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee