Guild Wars 2

Anyway, the OP can just play fractals more. Not a true solution, but it seems to have more going in terms of the kind of experience that the OP wants.

Plus, the average LFG PUGs will support the OP all the way in this endeavour.

Lindbur.2537:

…

Lilith Ajit.6173:

…

Alice.8694:

So I start public groups with the expectation that we won’t be stacking in corners. And the overwhelming results of this is that no one can fight the bosses on these terms.

You’re suffering from a confirmation bias. Good players all want to get the content done quickly and efficiently, and so use stacking in 9 times out of 10 cases. Thus, when you advertise for no stacking, you’re getting the people who either don’t care to be fast (few and far between) or don’t know the difference (bad players). Thus, you’re getting an overwhelming number of bad players in your groups, and these players don’t know what they’re doing, leading you to draw a conclusion that is, in-fact, fallacious.

Hopefully this helps. Good luck playing how you want!

Oh I see how it is, I start offering cookies and people start actually reading my post. XD

+1 to the lot of you that bothered to address my actual point.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I also see OPs point.
It seems like a pretty logical observation.

If it makes you feel any better, during the Marionette event the PR campaign mentioned something to effect of; ‘we have some idea of where the general player skilllevel is at, and we think people have fun when they’re presented with a challenge just beyond it and have to stretch to meet it’.

Which seems pretty promising as a balance philosophy, if they’d only feel inclined to apply it to dungeons.

Marionette was an awesome boss…

It seems like they’ve abandoned dungeons, which is a huge shame.

Alice.8694:

Oh I see how it is, I start offering cookies and people start actually reading my post. XD

+1 to the lot of you that bothered to address my actual point.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I also see OPs point.
It seems like a pretty logical observation.

If it makes you feel any better, during the Marionette event the PR campaign mentioned something to effect of; ‘we have some idea of where the general player skilllevel is at, and we think people have fun when they’re presented with a challenge just beyond it and have to stretch to meet it’.

Which seems pretty promising as a balance philosophy, if they’d only feel inclined to apply it to dungeons.

Marionette was an awesome boss…

It seems like they’ve abandoned dungeons, which is a huge shame.

“Seems”.

They did abandon them. They do not have a dungeon team. They don’t care. So here we are.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Alice.8694:

Oh I see how it is, I start offering cookies and people start actually reading my post. XD

+1 to the lot of you that bothered to address my actual point.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I also see OPs point.
It seems like a pretty logical observation.

If it makes you feel any better, during the Marionette event the PR campaign mentioned something to effect of; ‘we have some idea of where the general player skilllevel is at, and we think people have fun when they’re presented with a challenge just beyond it and have to stretch to meet it’.

Which seems pretty promising as a balance philosophy, if they’d only feel inclined to apply it to dungeons.

Marionette was an awesome boss…

It seems like they’ve abandoned dungeons, which is a huge shame.

“Seems”.

They did abandon them. They do not have a dungeon team. They don’t care. So here we are.

I don’t have omnipotence so I cannot really say… Maybe there is like… One guy… Diligently working that everyone has forgotten about… I can hope.

I think your initial foundational premise might be stretching a bit, Rising.
Normally interaction and response to a boss’s mechanics is how we typically make the skilllevel distinction in our fellow players, so logically, wouldn’t a combat philosophy based around minimizing those instances also mean it’s a poor determination of good or bad play?

You might very well have terrible players stacking.

“Seems”.
They did abandon them. They do not have a dungeon team. They don’t care. So here we are.

/shrug
Well, we just have no way of knowing either way.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I think your initial foundational premise might be stretching a bit, Rising.
Normally interaction and response to a boss’s mechanics is how we typically make the skilllevel distinction in our fellow players, so logically, wouldn’t a combat philosophy based around minimizing those instances also mean it’s a poor determination of good or bad play?

You might very well have terrible players stacking, which is sort of the point of the thread.

“Seems”.
They did abandon them. They do not have a dungeon team. They don’t care. So here we are.

/shrug
Well, we just have no way of knowing either way.

We do actually. Someone grab that Hrouda quote I’m done quoting it for the billionth time.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

We do actually. Someone grab that Hrouda quote I’m done quoting it for the billionth time.

The guy they fired, whose list of contributions to the game all seemed to kinda suck?

Can’t say the ascalon refit, underwater fractal and scarlet’s playhouse are on or anywhere near my most memorable dungeons list.

But sure, i’m curious let’s see this quote.

Alice.8694:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

“Seems”.

They did abandon them. They do not have a dungeon team. They don’t care. So here we are.

I don’t have omnipotence so I cannot really say… Maybe there is like… One guy… Diligently working that everyone has forgotten about… I can hope.

TBH, there’s only 4 major things that were done to dungeons in the past year or so. Excluding fractals (which was mess based on zero communication) they did the following:

1. They nerfed continuous dungeon runs, thus killing CoF farm.

2. They added gold rewards to each dungeon path (even though they’re not balanced rewards).

3. Deleted a F/U dungeon, whilst adding Aetherpath path.

4. “Nerfed” boss chests to once per day, while somewhat balancing some paths adding a silver here and silver there to overall end reward.

The list is not so impressive by any means, point #4 makes absolutely no sense, especially since some paths share same bosses. There was absolutely no reason nor need for it.

I think they’re trying to “show” that there is a dungeon team and they’re working on stuff, but the problem they’re randomly coming up with stuff that nobody asks for and put them in game. And don’t even want to start talking about fractals ,_,

Romo.3709:

I think they’re trying to “show” that there is a dungeon team and they’re working on stuff, but the problem they’re randomly coming up with stuff that nobody asks for and put them in game. And don’t even want to start talking about fractals ,_,

Yeah, possibly…
Or perhaps they don’t want to spend budget on dungeons, so who ever is working on them has very limited time or resources to make bigger changes.

Alice.8694:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

We do actually. Someone grab that Hrouda quote I’m done quoting it for the billionth time.

The guy they fired, whose list of contributions to the game all seemed to kinda suck?

Can’t say the ascalon refit, underwater fractal and scarlet’s playhouse are on or anywhere near my most memorable dungeons list.

But sure, i’m curious let’s see this quote.

Basically it was that they disbanded the dungeon team and put them in the LS team.

And frankly I honestly don’t care what you or anyone thinks about his encounters. The only have an exploit stopping dungeon team now. Why? Because dungeon difficulty alienates the gem spending casual player base.

And that’s why we don’t have combo field priority, for one, and also why we don’t have new dungeons. And Aetherpath proves it. They said “let’s experiment, let’s give them why they are asking for” and what is it? A bloody messy failure that people complain about and don’t run.

Forum thread error fix post.

I didn’t read any of the comments since this thread has been duplicated many times but I like how the OP knows what skillful play is, yet doesn’t understand the finer points of stacking and game mechanics let alone their own class mechanics.

Here is an example of skillful play when the players understand all the mechanics of a dungeon and their class (and probably the other classes in the group as well). http://gwscr.com/

Alice.8694:

Romo.3709:

I think they’re trying to “show” that there is a dungeon team and they’re working on stuff, but the problem they’re randomly coming up with stuff that nobody asks for and put them in game. And don’t even want to start talking about fractals ,_,

Yeah, possibly…
Or perhaps they don’t want to spend budget on dungeons, so who ever is working on them has very limited time or resources to make bigger changes.

The problem is not the budget, but as with every Anet project they ever partaken is the actual focus on thing that needs to be worked on. In most cases the “fixes” are not welcomed, nor they’re asked for. How do you justify the money towards the project (even as small as fixing CoF p1 room but putting the wall over it) when you know nobody will be happy about it.

What Anet lack is the focus. They take feedback (that’s when they actually take feedback and not just open the thread up to let it collect dust) and instead of working on major issues and requests, they do their own thing. In some cases it’s obvious that person working on a given dungeon / fractal never ran it regularly nor (in case of fractals) partaken in a high level run on multiple occasions. Rather than that, they do what they’re given on a list of things that Anet just penciled in without looking more into what the actual end result will be after making said change. In case of fractals and dreadful Fractured update, QA Team did a horrible job in actually testing every level on every instability, thus everything went to hell and certain levels are not being ran ever again, because they’re either not fun or just plain build-breaking.

For example with the last CDI on fractals, people complained about rewards and dredge, when nothing was left, rolling came up as an “issue”. I can almost see now that “rolling” will be their focus if they even start working on fractals again. All while dredge will be untouched again, rewards bumped up by 10s and another reset will take place.

They probably pick their focus groups based on RNG rather than quantitative and qualitative responses of people that actually make sense and have solid facts behind them.

Romo.3709:

Alice.8694:

Romo.3709:

I think they’re trying to “show” that there is a dungeon team and they’re working on stuff, but the problem they’re randomly coming up with stuff that nobody asks for and put them in game. And don’t even want to start talking about fractals ,_,

Yeah, possibly…
Or perhaps they don’t want to spend budget on dungeons, so who ever is working on them has very limited time or resources to make bigger changes.

The problem is not the budget, but as with every Anet project they ever partaken is the actual focus on thing that needs to be worked on. In most cases the “fixes” are not welcomed, nor they’re asked for. How do you justify the money towards the project (even as small as fixing CoF p1 room but putting the wall over it) when you know nobody will be happy about it.

What Anet lack is the focus. They take feedback (that’s when they actually take feedback and not just open the thread up to let it collect dust) and instead of working on major issues and requests, they do their own thing. In some cases it’s obvious that person working on a given dungeon / fractal never ran it regularly nor (in case of fractals) partaken in a high level run on multiple occasions. Rather than that, they do what they’re given on a list of things that Anet just penciled in without looking more into what the actual end result will be after making said change. In case of fractals and dreadful Fractured update, QA Team did a horrible job in actually testing every level on every instability, thus everything went to hell and certain levels are not being ran ever again, because they’re either not fun or just plain build-breaking.

For example with the last CDI on fractals, people complained about rewards and dredge, when nothing was left rolling came up as an “issue”. I can almost see now that “rolling” will be their focus if they even start working on fractals again. All while dredge will be untouched again, rewards bumped up by 10s and another reset will take place.

They probably pick their focus groups based on RNG rather than quantitative and qualitative responses of people that actually make sense and have solid facts behind them.

Did you see that now you’re revealed at the bombs on dredge now? No more stealth. But lots of stealth buffs!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Did you see that now you’re revealed at the bombs on dredge now? No more stealth. But lots of stealth buffs!

Really? I love the bomb side on dredge. I always solo it on my thief. But over the past few months I’ve only gotten this side once. Two weeks ago on a secondary account, which I soloed on my level 41 thief xD

Btw, side note: We gotta do more fractals together! Make it happen! xD

Romo.3709:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Did you see that now you’re revealed at the bombs on dredge now? No more stealth. But lots of stealth buffs!

Really? I love the bomb side on dredge. I always solo it on my thief. But over the past few months I’ve only gotten this side once. Two weeks ago on a secondary account, which I soloed on my level 41 thief xD

Btw, side note: We gotta do more fractals together! Make it happen! xD

Make it so, number 1!

First, I am stealing that seal image.

Since I know Alice is still reading this thread, I figured I’d share my own thoughts even though threads like this always turn into a mess.

The real problem is a combination of mechanics that allow some encounters to turn into what you have described and the lack of a dungeon team monitoring these things and making balance adjustments accordingly. There is a reason AC is so popular, it is one of the dungeons where stacking can be combined with reflects and some other skills to make some encounters disgustingly easy. You can’t do it in every dungeon or on every boss, hence why people have to buy Arah tokens. You do bring up a valid point in that the encounters where it is possible players have come to completely rely on it and without it have embarrassing results like getting caught by every Kholer pull, possibly the most obvious tell in the game.

I personally won’t stack on AC bosses because I find it so boring I want to claw my eyes out. To some people on this forum that must mean I wear full PVT gear. I fell in love with the organized chaos boss fights were at launch and I just don’t find it fun to stand in a corner unless it’s some bullkitten like high level dredge where not doing so makes the encounter something beyond horrible. For bosses like Kholer the time difference between stacking and beating his kitten in the center of the room is minimal though.

Since Lillith is tired of linking it over and over and I am lazy I’ll just tell you that when LS started it was stated by Hrouda that the dungeon team had been dissolved to work on LS. There is no dedicated dungeon team anymore, and sadly there may never will be again. It seems highly likely that the dungeons have been abandoned in favor of much more accessible open world content.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

First, I am stealing that seal image.

Since I know Alice is still reading this thread, I figured I’d share my own thoughts even though threads like this always turn into a mess.

The real problem is a combination of mechanics that allow some encounters to turn into what you have described and the lack of a dungeon team monitoring these things and making balance adjustments accordingly. There is a reason AC is so popular, it is one of the dungeons where stacking can be combined with reflects and some other skills to make some encounters disgustingly easy. You can’t do it in every dungeon or on every boss, hence why people have to buy Arah tokens. You do bring up a valid point in that the encounters where it is possible players have come to completely rely on it and without it have embarrassing results like getting caught by every Kholer pull, possibly the most obvious tell in the game.

I personally won’t stack on AC bosses because I find it so boring I want to claw my eyes out. To some people on this forum that must mean I wear full PVT gear. I fell in love with the organized chaos boss fights were at launch and I just don’t find it fun to stand in a corner unless it’s some bullkitten like high level dredge where not doing so makes the encounter something beyond horrible. For bosses like Kholer the time difference between stacking and beating his kitten in the center of the room is minimal though.

Since Lillith is tired of linking it over and over and I am lazy I’ll just tell you that when LS started it was stated by Hrouda that the dungeon team had been dissolved to work on LS. There is no dedicated dungeon team anymore, and sadly there may never will be again. It seems highly likely that the dungeons have been abandoned in favor of much more accessible open world content.

^

Yep.

I don’t like the running around kiting bosses personally but every thing else I entirely agree with. Nice job, Ambassador Dramen.

Oh, I wanted to add I very much disagree with your opinion of Hrouda. The Molten Facility and the two bosses at the end was one of the best designed dungeons this game has seen, it was sad that it only existed for two weeks. At least we got part of it back as a fractal.

Alice.8694:

The guy they fired, whose list of contributions to the game all seemed to kinda suck?

.

Nooooo! No disrespecting hrouda on the dungeon forums! This is a sin beyond belief!

Sanderinoa.8065:

Alice.8694:

The guy they fired, whose list of contributions to the game all seemed to kinda suck?

.

Nooooo! No disrespecting hrouda on the dungeon forums! This is a sin beyond belief!

If they ask for forgiveness they’ll have to recite the holy berserker prayer 10 times.

Someone link it.

You give players an easy way to do an encounter and they’ll take it. It’s up to the game designers to adjust those techniques if they make the encounter too easy. Initially we had this, but we haven’t for a very long time now.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Alice.8694:

The guy they fired, whose list of contributions to the game all seemed to kinda suck?

.

Nooooo! No disrespecting hrouda on the dungeon forums! This is a sin beyond belief!

If they ask for forgiveness they’ll have to recite the holy berserker prayer 10 times.

Someone link it.

I like it when people enjoy my craft.
Here you go.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Remember to always place your trust in the Holy Trinity of DPS.

• May Power, the Father grant you His Might to rain death in the form of large numbers on top of your enemies.
• May Precision, the Son, with His Fury guide your blades into the flimsiest of their armor.
• Though fallen, may Ferocity, the Holy Spirit, imbue you and magnify the virtues of both, the Father and the Son, so that your blows may fall heavy on your foes taking on the shape of more hard-hitting crits.

Spared and blessed be the followers of the Assassin that, though slightly bent on their ways, share our vision of smooth and efficient speedruns.

May you never degenerate and fall and be led astray to the misguided ways of the Rampager, or the nefarious path of the Soldier, or the wretched lanes of the Rabid.

May your faith in the Berserker never falter, your Fury never quenched, and your Might always stacked to 25.
For Great Justice!
Amen.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

You give players an easy way to do an encounter and they’ll take it. It’s up to the game designers to adjust those techniques if they make the encounter too easy. Initially we had this, but we haven’t for a very long time now.

Honestly, i don’t know why it’s still an issue. Okay, the damage is over the top with FGS in low level dungeons, but nobody forces you to use those tools and even if you do, the average pug don’t stealth, stack might, use reflects, use pets passively, using full zerker, using good traiting etc.

It remembers me to the fight against Onyixia in the WotLK era of WoW.
In that big chamber you had to pull Ony to the back, so the tank won’t get knocked away contantly, the wall of the lair holds him / her in place, meanwhile the DPS-ers can stand around the dragon to avoid those cracks in the ground which cause fear and the tail swipe.

Now imagine in that encounter 20 out of 25 people in the raid yelling at you, that the tank should tank in the middle and everybody should eat the fears, because making fights easier is exploit. Madness!

There will always be an easy way to do an encounter. Easy in the context of these encounters is a memorizable pattern that results in the least likelihood for failure, and every boss in the game has one of those.

The point here isn’t about what’s easy and hard, it’s about what some people like and what some people don’t like. You think stacking is silly and not as fun? That’s cool, you can play your way and do whatever you’d like with your groups! I personally love burning bosses down in seconds and coordinating players together to stack. I also know that when kitten hits the fan, I can solo most bosses in a pinch with or without a wall, and have done so repeatedly in the past in pubs and private guild runs. I know for a fact that stacking has only served to improve the player coordination of players I run with, and all of them play better when not stacked as a direct result of learning to coordinate fields and skill rotations when stacked. Maybe that’s not what you get with every pub, but a pub is exactly that; you have no idea what you’ll get, and it’s improper to make hasty generalizations based on a few bad groups.

And for the record, more things can be reflected in Arah than can be reflected in AC. Seriously, Jotun Stargazer, Alphard, GL, Belka, more than half the trash mobs, turrets, etc.

The only example i can think of where they have tried to discourage stacking in regular groups is the alphard change (if that was intentional). Its still possible but a pug group will consistantly wipe unless they know what they are doing and dodge/reflect the pull.

Neko.9021:

From now on, when people complain about “corner stacking and skipping”, they must do Dredge Fractal at Level 50 and kill all the dredge they encounter. I’m tited of AC always being used as the example in these threads.

This people forget about the hard stuff and only talk about easy dungeons.

Stacking ruined players’ skill levels? Perhaps. But it’s still the most efficient way most of the time, and that unlikely to change any time soon.

What “skill levels”?

Whenever I see one of these stacking threads, I can’t help but think how contrived it is. The bosses in this game aren’t huge; if you put 5 players in melee range, they’re going to be standing on top of each other no matter what you do.

So me stacking on a boss in melee range, while trying to mitigate damage, is less skillful than sitting at 1200 range and auto attacking? So melee players are less skillful than ranged players? After all, melee players stack on the bosses anyway. I also take it that stacking to group enemies up and make each attack more effective via cleave damage is less skillful too.

I wonder what you guys do to “play the way you like” in gw2. I see how SC guilds upload his videos on youtube, share his builds on forums and open public theorycrafting topics… Others seem only to come to the forums to tell to the devs how bad designed his dungeons are and how bad are the average pugs players in gw2 because they only know to stack and skip.

So much staking and skipping topics on this forums made me nostalgic of the good old days?

Hey everyone! I’m pretty new to the game and I’m looking for people that want to spent excessive amounts of time in dungeons for only little reward, I like to disregard effective tactics so I can claim " I play like I want and expect other people to play the way I want too", and I’m looking for a forum or website where I can push my own opinions on other people for the millionth time as well.

Can anyone help me with this?

Heltzer.2435:

Hey everyone! I’m pretty new to the game and I’m looking for people that want to spent excessive amounts of time in dungeons for only little reward, I like to disregard effective tactics so I can claim " I play like I want and expect other people to play the way I want too", and I’m looking for a forum or website where I can push my own opinions on other people for the millionth time as well.

Can anyone help me with this?

I approve.

So this is the new norm of Guild Wars 2.

When you want to use LFG and want to see real, experienced players, you have to say “no stacking”.

That’s like saying “no kitten ” every sentence you say to a guy.

“Let’s go to my party dude, no kitten .”

Yeah, great is it not?

EDIT: The word’s censored, but I’m basically saying that you have to say something ridiculous just to see supposed and normal results.

Avascar.9237:

So this is the new norm of Guild Wars 2.

When you want to use LFG and want to see real, experienced players, you have to say “no stacking”.

That’s like saying “no kitten ” every sentence you say to a guy.

“Let’s go to my party dude, no kitten .”

Yeah, great is it not?

EDIT: The word’s censored, but I’m basically saying that you have to say something ridiculous just to see supposed and normal results.

Fighting things in Melee range isn’t normal? :X Sorry I guess.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Oh, I wanted to add I very much disagree with your opinion of Hrouda. The Molten Facility and the two bosses at the end was one of the best designed dungeons this game has seen, it was sad that it only existed for two weeks. At least we got part of it back as a fractal.

In his own words:

This was not built by the dungeon team, but instead by the living world team. William and I are currently working on other content in the game, which is why there weren’t any significant changes to the core dungeons this last patch.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Molten-Weapon-Facility/first#post1881882

Molten Facility is not one of his, sorry.

Ayrilana.1396:

So me stacking on a boss in melee range, while trying to mitigate damage, is less skillful than sitting at 1200 range and auto attacking? So melee players are less skillful than ranged players? After all, melee players stack on the bosses anyway. I also take it that stacking to group enemies up and make each attack more effective via cleave damage is less skillful too.

I really cannot tell if people like this do not understand the issue or merely wish to strawman my entire point for easy ego points.

But for the sake of discussion I shall explain it, very very slowly.

I’m NOT saying stacking isn’t a valid tactic.
I’m NOT saying that it isn’t highly valuable in some situations for speed killing, especially when the entire or majority of the party is wielding melee.
I’m NOT saying that utilizing stacking is in anyway unskillful or that utilizing everything at your disposal is somehow dumbing down content.

Now that we’ve got these bargain bucket strawmen out the way. Here is what I am saying.

I’ve encountered a lot of new or inexperienced players who do not understand why stacking is a viable strategy.
They’ve been mistaught by being carried through dungeons with players who do understand how to stack or through other means such as popular youtubers, streams or other community media that stacking is the easiest and goto tactic to beat a boss.
This causes players to continue to remain uneducated on the bosses basic tactics and continue to depend on being carried by groups that do understand stacking. Meanwhile when they encounter a group not suited to utilize stacking efficiently, they do not understand why it fails and what is expected of them.

What surprised me was the alarming rate that players I was pugging or partying with would immediately call for stacking, even on bosses with moves that punishing stacking. This gave me the impression that the overall skill level of pugs in my absence had gone down.

In closing: Stacking isn’t exactly a problem, I think it’s poor dungeon design but I do not think it’s an immediately destructive to dungeon runs like some claim. It’s an issue that needs addressing on the whole. I do however think it’s teaching inexperienced players poor dungeon skills.

If you want a solution to my issue, when you carry a newbie through a dungeon and use stacking. Explain why it works to them and in what situations it would not work. It won’t take you long and you’ll have the opportunity to improve the dungeon pug skill level considerably. We all win, and if you don’t know… Stop using it till you do.

Alice.8694:

I’ve encountered a lot of new or inexperienced players who do not understand why stacking is a viable strategy.
They’ve been mistaught by being carried through dungeons with players who do understand how to stack or through other means such as popular youtubers, streams or other community media that stacking is the easiest and goto tactic to beat a boss.
This causes players to continue to remain uneducated on the bosses basic tactics and continue to depend on being carried by groups that do understand stacking. Meanwhile when they encounter a group not suited to utilize stacking efficiently, they do not understand why it fails and what is expected of them.

What surprised me was the alarming rate that players I was pugging or partying with would immediately call for stacking, even on bosses with moves that punishing stacking. This gave me the impression that the overall skill level of pugs in my absence had gone down.

In closing: Stacking isn’t exactly a problem, I think it’s poor dungeon design but I do not think it’s an immediately destructive to dungeon runs like some claim. It’s an issue that needs addressing on the whole. I do however think it’s teaching inexperienced players poor dungeon skills.

If you want a solution to my issue, when you carry a newbie through a dungeon and use stacking. Explain why it works to them and in what situations it would not work. It won’t take you long and you’ll have the opportunity to improve the dungeon pug skill level considerably. We all win, and if you don’t know… Stop using it till you do.

…………………….

Wuuuuuuuuuut.

WHAAAAAAAT?!

Sorry, I don’t normally get this mad, but this a whole new level of upsetting that I need to comment.

It is not MY fault that players that I PUG with end up as bad players. I take PERSONAL offense to being told that just trying to run a dungeon quickly, even telling people where to go and how the fights work, is somehow me contributing to making players bad.

Kitten you. How dare you blame those of us who have learned encounters of somehow degrading the game as a whole. Were we better off when dungeons were three times as long and we all ranged and kited everything around and kept wiping and res-rushing back? Do you REALLY think those days were better?

They weren’t. I remember them. And players weren’t any better. The only thing that changed was that those who wanted to get better got better. And those who didn’t, didn’t get better. But there was NOTHING of value of running AC and wiping continuously at the burrows or unable to get passed spider queen. There was nothing of value of Arah runs taking hours and constantly wiping on Lupicus. These things did NOT make us better players. In fact I know the players who still refuse to adapt their tactics to Berserker gear or effective Melee pulls, and they’ve moved on to other parts of GW2. And you want to know why? Because using old strats from over a year ago in dungeons that are outdated is kittening painful.

It took a long time just to ingrain in players that Berserker gear was optimal. PUGs are only just slowly starting to realize that not just War-Guard-Mes can be run to good effect in dungeons. Happily, most understand how to kittening stand in the right spot and stack in the right place to make an encounter easier. It took us a long time to get here, but I’m glad at what little progress was made.

And I do not take kindly to kittens like you telling us that we’re making PUGs worse by helping them to get through dungeons in the least painful ways possible. If a PUG wants to get better, it’s their responsibility to get better, NOT MINE.

My only problem is groups thinking they need to stack on everything. I’ve joined some groups lately on easy fights, or even moderate fights that don’t require stacking, where people all stacked somewhere and I was like “why are we stacking on this fight?” An example is the Nightmare Tree. I have ‘never’ stacked on that until last night, and I said screw it because I was using a shortbow and was having obstructed and out of range problems. Much more enjoyable once I broke stack, and two other players followed suit.

Need to define stacking. 50 units or 300? 50 units on tree is dumb, 300 units is good (boonshare).

50 units to the double-damage spot.

Neko.9021:

It is not MY fault that players that I PUG with end up as bad players. I take PERSONAL offense to being told that just trying to run a dungeon quickly, even telling people where to go and how the fights work, is somehow me contributing to making players bad.

And I do not take kindly to kittens like you telling us that we’re making PUGs worse by helping them to get through dungeons in the least painful ways possible. If a PUG wants to get better, it’s their responsibility to get better, NOT MINE.

Over-reaction much?

In your own words “telling people where to go and how the fights work” you are already doing what I suggested, no? Or Perhaps you missed the part where I specifically said:

If you want a solution to my issue, when you carry a newbie through a dungeon and use stacking. Explain why it works to them and in what situations it would not work.

Finally

I take PERSONAL offense

And?

Alice.8694:

Neko.9021:

It is not MY fault that players that I PUG with end up as bad players. I take PERSONAL offense to being told that just trying to run a dungeon quickly, even telling people where to go and how the fights work, is somehow me contributing to making players bad.

And I do not take kindly to kittens like you telling us that we’re making PUGs worse by helping them to get through dungeons in the least painful ways possible. If a PUG wants to get better, it’s their responsibility to get better, NOT MINE.

Over-reaction much?

In your own words “telling people where to go and how the fights work” you are already doing what I suggested, no? Or Perhaps you missed the part where I specifically said:

If you want a solution to my issue, when you carry a newbie through a dungeon and use stacking. Explain why it works to them and in what situations it would not work.

Finally

I take PERSONAL offense

And?

You’re blaming the skilled players for making players bad. It’s this exact attitude that’s just so destructive.

By taking this line of thinking, it puts the onus of why players do poorly… on the people who are doing well. It just boggles my mind.

Neko.9021:

…………………….

Wuuuuuuuuuut.

WHAAAAAAAT?!

Sorry, I don’t normally get this mad, but this a whole new level of upsetting that I need to comment.

It is not MY fault that players that I PUG with end up as bad players. I take PERSONAL offense to being told that just trying to run a dungeon quickly, even telling people where to go and how the fights work, is somehow me contributing to making players bad.

-snip-

+1

Alice.8694:

Neko.9021:

It is not MY fault that players that I PUG with end up as bad players. I take PERSONAL offense to being told that just trying to run a dungeon quickly, even telling people where to go and how the fights work, is somehow me contributing to making players bad.

And I do not take kindly to kittens like you telling us that we’re making PUGs worse by helping them to get through dungeons in the least painful ways possible. If a PUG wants to get better, it’s their responsibility to get better, NOT MINE.

Over-reaction much?

In your own words “telling people where to go and how the fights work” you are already doing what I suggested, no? Or Perhaps you missed the part where I specifically said:

If you want a solution to my issue, when you carry a newbie through a dungeon and use stacking. Explain why it works to them and in what situations it would not work.

Finally

I take PERSONAL offense

And?

While his comment did have a little overreaction in it, it is true. If new players want to learn, they are free to do so and it is no one’s responsibility but themselves’. If someone else wants to lend them a hand, then that’s cool. Good for them.

At first I ridiculed your post as it looked like the typical anti-stacking thread, and though it wasn’t, you’re still wrong. Stacking is not what makes players bad, unwillingness is.
When I first started playing again and everything had changed, instead of expecting anyone to take pity on me and help me to catch up, I researched a bit, learned a few meta builds, found out what the best strategies were and why and then put them to the test, and guess what? They worked.

I am by no means an excellent player, but I like to believe that at the very least am a decent one, and when anyone asks about something I know about, I gladly instruct them, but only when it is them that seek help. I won’t go out of my way to help reluctant people.

Alice.8694:

I’m a firm believer of letting private groups do as they please within the game rules. But when I start up a public run anywhere I personally refuse to use corner stacking tactics, I think it drains the enjoyment out of almost every fight. But I understand why some people do it, so what’s the harm right?

Well in the past few days i’ve been dabbling in dungeons again, I haven’t personally touched them in a while. Getting dungeon master was enough to tap out my interest in them for a few months.

So I start public groups with the expectation that we won’t be stacking in corners. And the overwhelming results of this is that no one can fight the bosses on these terms.

A great example is Kholer who requires very little outside of one dodge every time he does his aoe wire. And of the people who insist on corner stacking, I didn’t find a single one who didn’t take every single scorpion wire.
Only to get snarky comments like… “See this is why you corner stack.” and “Do you have experience here?” while i’m wearing a DM title and dodging every wire.

No this is why you don’t corner stack, because it trains you how not to play the game. So now I feel stuck that if I want to use the LFG to dungeon run I’m gonna have to sit in corners and spam a rotation. Unwillingly, players have turned GW2’s dynamic combat into WoW fights… stand in corners and hit a rotation. So now I don’t feel I can force a party to fight the boss on normal terms. Because dragging 3 people through a dungeon who don’t know how to fight the bosses on the old terms just isn’t happening. None of them seem to have the patience or interest to learn content they already think they are above.

I think you never played wow i don’t remember there to stack in a corner and in 5sec kill a boss pls don’t compare apple with pear and for stacking you can blame the lack of trinity you have no other option take it or leave it ppl wanted dynamic fight 1,1,1,1,1 so here you go

God, dont you get tired of those “ZERK is bad, stacking are exploits or lack of skill, skipping shouldn’t be allowed” threads ? I mean comeon we all got it now that YOU think that stacking ruined players skill levels. I personally dont think it does. It only does when people do it the wrong way. But thats what I think and your point of view is what YOU think. So please do us a favor and stop crying because people want to be fast and efficient, thats life. Life with it or solo your dungeons if you dont get other same minded players! Have fun.

God, dont you get tired of those “stacking is fine, we dont need skillful gameplay, we want games that hold our hand and give us fast reward with little effort” replies ? I mean comeon we all got it that YOU think that stacking is fine. I personally dont think it is. But thats what i think and your point of view is what YOU think. So please do us a favor and stop crying because people want to some challenge in their game. Why are you even replying, you get tons of people stacking so you can play the way you want! Have fun. cough

Intuneric.7652:

God, dont you get tired of those “stacking is fine, we dont need skillful gameplay, we want games that hold our hand and give us fast reward with little effort” replies ? I mean comeon we all got it that YOU think that stacking is fine. I personally dont think it is. But thats what i think and your point of view is what YOU think. So please do us a favor and stop crying because people want to some challenge in their game. Why are you even replying, you get tons of people stacking so you can play the way you want! Have fun. cough

Because challenge equals to going full PVT and kiting every enemy to death with ranged weapons.