Guild Wars 2

forum bug fixing

“oxtred is the best player in the world”
-oxtred

oxtred.7658:

“oxtred is the best player in the world”
-oxtred

This one. I like this one.

J Eberle.9312:

oxtred.7658:

“oxtred is the best player in the world”
-oxtred

This one. I like this one.

“This one. I like this one.”
-Swiftpaws

“Apply today if you think you can hang with the best of the best.”
-DnT

“Posting in a stacking thread”
-Lindy

Woops, I mayyyyyy have broken it.
/giggle

/

Noah.9654:

I agree that stacking is dumb, but we can’t dictate how others choose to play the game. If ANet wants to do something about stacking, they can/will. Otherwise, I prefer fractals since its pretty rare when stacking actually works there.

The comment in regards to fractals is unfortunately for the most part false.

Stacking is still the most effective way of doing all things aside from boss soloing (yes even at 50).

A well prepped might stack followed with proper fury, 25 stacks of vuln, and a good deep freeze from ice bow will for the most part blow up any boss in fractals giving that all party members are using proper burst/dps rotations with the exception of maybe the ascalon captain which blocks from time to time and even then NPCs will melt him before the ascalon captain can do anything given you can get the NPCs to him in the first place. Mai Trin is another exception but a minor one as you simply keep her still in the fields before you do a stack burn and then your off to dealing with the cannons mechanics.

- Dredge boss can be killed in a single bucket
- Molten Berserker Dies within a single rotation the moment he pops up, the firestorm if on the parameter of the ring is baited back into center before a stack burn is initiated. also killing him in seconds
- Stacking up the golems in the uncategorized fractal is the fastest and efficient way of dealing with it all as they can all be perma stunned and destroyed the moment they pop back up
- LoS pull into a corner stack is the easiest way of dealing with mobs in the ascalon fractal

Some small examples but you get the picture.

I think the only real way to deal with this type of mentality is honestly, just going with some of the mechanics they were throwing out there initially but building on its AI on a more dynamic level which requires you to dynamically shift your position to counter play its tactic.

A good but also bad example of what I’m talking about are the souls games(demons souls, dark souls, dark souls 2). Although the AI is easily exploitable, no one would be caught dead stacking in a corner as the game designs and AI played against that choice. Some bosses even deliberately put distance between you and it in an attempt to reset the fight, some even dodged to the sides while another add shifted in the opposite direction to try and get your back against one of them (Mirror Knight in Dark Souls 2).

The only people who are capable of fixing this is unfortunately a development team that doesn’t exist (they have no dedicated dungeon team currently).

A few suggestions from me in the sense of programming:

- If players are stacking up, have recognition systems that tell the AI that you guys are stacking up which would also put through a decision process in the AI to try and find ways to counter play you. Rather than blindly going in, maybe a warrior type character will try and slowly come around the corner and fear the party before initiating a hammer rotation for stun locks, got stability? maybe a necromancer that can safely creep around the corner and drop well of corruption on everything after a thief shadow refuged him for a surprise attack. Everyone remember FGS Corner Rushing? What if ascalon elementalists in AC counterplayed by dropping an FGS for their warrior so both of them would FGS rush YOU in the corner.

- If players are spreading out, same thing, get systems in there that punish repetition of strategy to enforce the demand of dynamic cooperation and movement in both melee and ranged and a constant shift in mentality, keeping everyone on their toes.

- Got blinds? have mobs swing wildly while running around chaotically to try and get their blinds prematurely removed

- Reflects? Have mobs try to side step it or deliberately try and move to the other side of it requiring players to use reflections as a dynamic zoning opportunity on the move.

The goal here is to help make decisions feel like a horizontal tactical strategy as if you’re playing a cooperative shooter in fantasy mmo or an intelligent pvp encounter, rather than playing to age old MMO dungeon tropes that people are tired of from other games.

[quote=4560027;IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Got blinds? have mobs swing wildly while running around chaotically to try and get their blinds prematurely removed

[/quote]

I don’t know why I bothered reading that, but this made me lose it. Lol. Guys, imagine mobs starting to run around like crazy headless chicken when they get blinded. Ahahaha.
“I’m blinded LET’S RUN AROUND so players have to chase me down, it’s so dynamic and fun!”
I also imagine how fun it would be for a guardian to have mobs run/move away when you lay down WoR. It’s not like it has a 32 seconds cd, right? Spammable!
I’d spend the entire day gathering 5 guardians and making walls of walls everywhere to herd mobs.
Like this.

P.S. Maybe you kids don’t remember, but you have no idea how stupid it looks when a mobs runs away from your attacksin an attempt to “kite”. Buy a time machine and go back to beta n2-3. Then roll staff elementalist. Laugh.

My guild leader made an excellent video that applies to you OP.

Check it out.

Gizmo.9178:

Seera.5916:

Why can’t the players who like to stack stack and the players that don’t like to stack, not stack? And why can’t they naturally just group themselves accordingly without issue?

Why does one method of dungeon running have to be destroyed?

And this right here is what I would also like to ask. If all the different types of players creates their own party and groups with like-minded players, then why should one group feel the need to interfere with the method of another? I hope I worded that right.

Virtually all of these complaints are about convenience. Poster wants what he wants, and he wants the convenience of being able to find it in most PuG’s on the LFG tool. They can have what they want with some effort. However, they choose to complain instead. Thus, the complaints are about wanting ANet to change the game so they can have what they want without effort, and anyone who disagrees is selfish, elitist or <insert other insult of choice>.

And in the immortal words of the Dhali Lama: “stop qqing and l2p noob” :p

fix Stacking?
AN?

lol.

Oh. The OP is being serious?

Another one of those! I love it.
Some players are simply stubborn and think the way they enjoy the game is the way to go. Just don’t let those elitists destroy your illusion of a better tyria. The day will come where we rise and kite Lupi for hours. Then we should definately get a guaranteed precursor because it took us so much time. While our bears are taking a nap, we then go hand in hand and explore orr as a bearbow without a bear.
Once the elitist start to talk about efficiency in our runs or tell us to play how we want, as it does not matter for them at all, we simply refuse to listen and block them.
After that a day is over, the next day will come soon so more epic Malrona solos, which is a thing the “stacker scrubs“ definately can’t do, so we can proove that stacking is so 2013..

Summarising: Kitten Elitists, I play how I want and you all get forced to play how I want aswell.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- LoS pull into a corner stack is the easiest way of dealing with mobs in the ascalon fractal

The easiest way of dealing with the majority of them is stealth.

Try again

Sparrow.5936:

I’m a big PVE player. Unfortunately most players out there are in it for the speed run grind/farm fests. That sounds so much fun! I can just stack at a boss and it melts in seconds with zerker gear and dungeon is over in 5-10 minutes. How about I just go back to work at that point, because that sounds more like mindless repetition rather than a fun game.

I was recently in Twilight Arbor and had a small revelation. We were at the spider boss Malrona or whatever her name is, which happens to be a boss that is hard to stack at because of it’s overlapping AOE attack then can wipe a group. I was mesmerized about how bad all the players were in my party at fighting a boss where you couldn’t stack. I had to solo her at the end and laugh to myself while everyone was confused about how to play a game where they don’t smash their face into keyboard to win.

So I think more bosses in this game should have some sort of attack that can wipe a group or severely damage players if they are just stacked on top of each other fighting like mindless nubs. ( maybe overlapping AOE that magnifies in damage when near other players or something similar).

The meta of stacking has sucked the fun out of the game and also crippled new players abilities as well. The learning curve is low. Players can’t hold their own anymore, and can’t think for themselves.

On the plus side, it makes picking off those same players in WvW much more easygoing.

No more stacking! Let’s make this game fun again!
To all those who will reply with “you don’t have to stack, let it be the players choice”. Well first off, you will get kicked out of 90% of all parties out there if you don’t. And let’s be real, you just want things handed to you on a silver platter in easy mode.

This game wasn’t designed to be played the way it is. Players found a way to make it disgustingly easy, maybe it’s time for the game to evolve and bring some GAMEplay back to it. Boss changes needed!

No.

The “meta of stacking” might have sucked the fun out of the game for you but not for me and others.

You want to not stack? Make a non-stacking party and go ahead and don’t stack.

Don’t ask for the game to be changed just because of your personal preference. That’s inconsiderate to everyone else playing.

You mention that not stacking will get you kicked out of 90% of parties.
Why do you think that is?
Is it because people don’t like stacking? Because if they didn’t ( same as you) what you mentioned about the kicks wouldn’t be true.

People want to stack and people want easy and fast rewards.
I don’t want things handed to me on a silver platter but I’ll be kitten ed if I’ll spend a second longer than I have to in a dungeon I’ve already done hundreds of times before.

Also players didn’t “find a way to make the game easy” – Guild Wars 2 is incredibly easy right off the bat since it’s made so even the worst of players with the most sub-optimal gear and traits can complete almost any encounter ( be it open world or dungeon).

That means that average and above average players will have it easy once they learn the mechanics, encounters, their own class and have gear that’s better than rares.

Make the game harder and watch the casual masses be driven away along with possible profits.
Don’t believe me? That’s fine but look at the new Mordrem mobs – made to be tougher opponents – they received a recent nerf that made them much easier.

I’m amazed at how much you can cross out on that bingo chart in just one of these threads.

“I am a casual
You’re an evil elitist
I play how I want”

-Casual haiku

Lindbur.2537:

“I am a casual
You’re an evil elitist
I play how I want”

-Casual haiku

10/10 would read again!

Sparrow.5936:

I’m a big PVE player. Unfortunately most players out there are in it for the speed run grind/farm fests. That sounds so much fun! I can just stack at a boss and it melts in seconds with zerker gear and dungeon is over in 5-10 minutes. How about I just go back to work at that point, because that sounds more like mindless repetition rather than a fun game.

I was recently in Twilight Arbor and had a small revelation. We were at the spider boss Malrona or whatever her name is, which happens to be a boss that is hard to stack at because of it’s overlapping AOE attack then can wipe a group. I was mesmerized about how bad all the players were in my party at fighting a boss where you couldn’t stack. I had to solo her at the end and laugh to myself while everyone was confused about how to play a game where they don’t smash their face into keyboard to win.

So I think more bosses in this game should have some sort of attack that can wipe a group or severely damage players if they are just stacked on top of each other fighting like mindless nubs. ( maybe overlapping AOE that magnifies in damage when near other players or something similar).

The meta of stacking has sucked the fun out of the game and also crippled new players abilities as well. The learning curve is low. Players can’t hold their own anymore, and can’t think for themselves.

On the plus side, it makes picking off those same players in WvW much more easygoing.

No more stacking! Let’s make this game fun again!
To all those who will reply with “you don’t have to stack, let it be the players choice”. Well first off, you will get kicked out of 90% of all parties out there if you don’t. And let’s be real, you just want things handed to you on a silver platter in easy mode.

This game wasn’t designed to be played the way it is. Players found a way to make it disgustingly easy, maybe it’s time for the game to evolve and bring some GAMEplay back to it. Boss changes needed!

Hi,

If you don’t mind, can I ask a few questions and get your opinion them?
I’m not trying to be rude here, just wanta better understand your side.

Sarah

Sometimes I stack while soloing. How do we fix me?

No but really though. Cool thread.

Stack people is in the forums too , you arent safe here OP

I will say that it’s a horrible feeling to constantly see pugs going to the old FGS spots. I hate feeling embarrassed for people and it’s just like… what the hell are you people DOING. Have you ever known why people LOS bosses to these spots to begin with… ?

Srsly. Goes to show how many people have no idea what’s going on.

This thread is making me so happy. It feels like the old days, back when people played :-)

Can I get an invite to [FAG] pls? Oh, and how the hell is that not getting kittied? xD

In the waaaaaay olds days we played groups with multiple warriors. having the boss against a wall is a big dps increase for warriors. Thus groups would LOS bosses or otherwise get them against a wall for better DPS. This was the origin of “stacking.”

In the slightly less old days, people began to use the fiery greatsword. To use effectively, bosses had to be against a wall. So this reinforced the concept of pushing or LOSing bosses to a wall or corner.

Today, we don’t use multiple warriors OR use FGS. Good group no longer bother LOSing or pushing most bosses to walls. However, a large minority don’t understand this. They continue to LOS or push bosses to walls even when it makes the fight take longer AND confers no benefit. They don’t know why they do it, and they really have no justification other than “thats how you fight this boss” or “I saw a speed run video do it this way.”

Looking into my crystal ball two years into the future I envision a time when Deep Freeze is nerfed to a 1 second CC and pugs still do it for some reason even though bane signet is better and we have forum posts complaining of the DEEP FREEZE AND BURN META.

I’m confused about OP’s issue. Does stacking, in OP’s words, mean “line-of-sighting behind an object/wall” or “everybody in close-quarter combat”?

Stacking isn’t itself a problem. If players were using mobility and skills to put enemies into specific positions so nearby players could share boons, banners, etc then it would be good play. Players could then decide to reposition to avoid aoe circles and aoe frontal attacks. Players would have to keep using skills to maintain positioning.

The problem comes from walls and corners. Walls and corners are better than skills at controlling the enemies position. Corners also give missile defense. Since no control skills or mobility skills are needed we get the pure dps philosophy. Good teamwork becomes trivial repetitive stacking. There is no variety in combat. The bad camera positioning near walls makes the game unpleasant to play.

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Give me an example of your second paragraph please?

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

Cheezy.2039:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- LoS pull into a corner stack is the easiest way of dealing with mobs in the ascalon fractal

The easiest way of dealing with the majority of them is stealth.

Try again

you mean stealthing past them in speed clears?

that’s not dealing with them that’s avoiding them.

deSade.9437:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

- Got blinds? have mobs swing wildly while running around chaotically to try and get their blinds prematurely removed

I don’t know why I bothered reading that, but this made me lose it. Lol. Guys, imagine mobs starting to run around like crazy headless chicken when they get blinded. Ahahaha.
“I’m blinded LET’S RUN AROUND so players have to chase me down, it’s so dynamic and fun!”
I also imagine how fun it would be for a guardian to have mobs run/move away when you lay down WoR. It’s not like it has a 32 seconds cd, right? Spammable!
I’d spend the entire day gathering 5 guardians and making walls of walls everywhere to herd mobs.
Like this.

P.S. Maybe you kids don’t remember, but you have no idea how stupid it looks when a mobs runs away from your attacksin an attempt to “kite”. Buy a time machine and go back to beta n2-3. Then roll staff elementalist. Laugh.

I actually liked the AI in beta, it had flavor unlike what we have now where the same kill tactic works against almost every single boss with almost zero risk involved after a certain point with small adjustments based on one or two difference to the target.

Atleast we have this out in the open.

- The anti meta stacker extremists want difficult hardcore organic and dynamic content that forces constant critical thinking that requires players to always think about what tools they have available and how best to dynamically tackle a challenge that constantly changes
- The zerker meta stackers extremists just want to blow through everything, get money, and not really appreciate what the encounter was trying to do

At this point the stances are quite clear.

Also I won’t need to go back in time as you’ll soon find out why.

hybrid.5027:

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

Most bosses don’t need to be cornered, unless you move want to move the boss before you engage. Some bosses like Subject Alpha can still be positioned better with a wall than with skills. For trash though the corners still rule as the top method of crowd control. Trash are often more dangerous than bosses.

Stooperdale.3560:

hybrid.5027:

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

Most bosses don’t need to be cornered, unless you move want to move the boss before you engage. Some bosses like Subject Alpha can still be positioned better with a wall than with skills. For trash though the corners still rule as the top method of crowd control. Trash are often more dangerous than bosses.

Subject alpha in p1 though is one of those examples that people stack and in doing so hinder themselves more than help.

Stooperdale.3560:

hybrid.5027:

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

Most bosses don’t need to be cornered, unless you move want to move the boss before you engage. Some bosses like Subject Alpha can still be positioned better with a wall than with skills. For trash though the corners still rule as the top method of crowd control. Trash are often more dangerous than bosses.

I guess the point is the bolded part. That is almost never necessary, and even your example of Subject Alpha it people in speed runs are killing him where he spawns and not using walls.

Silferas.3841:

Forum Aggressor Guild [FAG] is now recruiting!

Lack basic understanding of game mechanics?
Do people who do better than you kitten you off?
Do you get kicked from zerker gearcheck parties because you play how you want?
Do you feel an inner calling to fight against other playstyles than yours, because you feel that yours is just better and everyone else should play your way?

Join Forum Aggressor Guild! [FAG] We will welcome any like-minded individuals. In order to apply, please /uninstall guild wars 2. Looking forward to (not) meeting you in-game!

Ok guys, i smell potential! Who would be up for that?

“Forum Aggressors
Plague of I-play-how-I-wants
Narrow minded scrubs”

-Elitist haiku

GrimmR.3541:

Silferas.3841:

Forum Aggressor Guild [FAG] is now recruiting!

Lack basic understanding of game mechanics?
Do people who do better than you kitten you off?
Do you get kicked from zerker gearcheck parties because you play how you want?
Do you feel an inner calling to fight against other playstyles than yours, because you feel that yours is just better and everyone else should play your way?

Join Forum Aggressor Guild! [FAG] We will welcome any like-minded individuals. In order to apply, please /uninstall guild wars 2. Looking forward to (not) meeting you in-game!

Ok guys, i smell potential! Who would be up for that?

Apparently the game itself has more of a problem with the guild tag than forums do. Might have to figure out some workaround.

[TARD] The anti-rallybots diplomats is the only thing I have for now.

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

Do you think the wraithlord being made immune when pulled has made the fight any more, like even, remotely more interesting?

No, you just run in and whack it to death.

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

Well subject alpha in path 2 and 3 so you can dodge its attack while staying in place. AC path 2 where you need the boss to go through the trap, if you are behind the pillar he will go straight toward you, go thought the trap and don’t attack you with his white AoE. CM path 3, if you stack in the tunnel you can kill the boss before the Golem reach you (or course if you have enough dps you don’t need to stack, but for normal group it can help a lot).

But its true that a lot of pugs stack at place where there is no longer a real advantage. It just make things easier for them when the boss don’t move in a corner.

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

There’s no need to draw other posters into an argument like that. You can make your case about specific boss mobs if you want to, with your own examples. Other people can make their case about mobs in general if they want to. You don’t have to disagree with everyone just to prove your point.

Thaddeus.4891:

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

Well subject alpha in path 2 and 3 so you can dodge its attack while staying in place. AC path 2 where you need the boss to go through the trap, if you are behind the pillar he will go straight toward you, go thought the trap and don’t attack you with his white AoE. CM path 3, if you stack in the tunnel you can kill the boss before the Golem reach you (or course if you have enough dps you don’t need to stack, but for normal group it can help a lot).

But its true that a lot of pugs stack at place *where there is no longer a real advantage. *It just make things easier for them when the boss don’t move in a corner.

Of everything you cited, the CM one is the only accurate one. And I think you mean CM p1 final boss not p3.

Nonetheless you’re right about the bolded part. The important part is that it isnt the corner that is conferring the advantage in any of those cases.

hybrid.5027:

Thaddeus.4891:

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

Well subject alpha in path 2 and 3 so you can dodge its attack while staying in place. AC path 2 where you need the boss to go through the trap, if you are behind the pillar he will go straight toward you, go thought the trap and don’t attack you with his white AoE. CM path 3, if you stack in the tunnel you can kill the boss before the Golem reach you (or course if you have enough dps you don’t need to stack, but for normal group it can help a lot).

But its true that a lot of pugs stack at place *where there is no longer a real advantage. *It just make things easier for them when the boss don’t move in a corner.

Of everything you cited, the CM one is the only accurate one. And I think you mean CM p1 final boss not p3.

Nonetheless you’re right about the bolded part. The important part is that it isnt the corner that is conferring the advantage in any of those cases.

I’d say it’s still nice to get Subject Alpha to a wall just to keep him place IMO. P1 I prefer the open space in case I mistime some dodging, but the rest are worth taking the extra couple seconds just for the quality of life that the wall provides. I mean nothing is more frustrating than laying down a damage field and having the enemy walk out.

Why is it only a dungeon problem? WvW stacking isn’t an issue?

The game was designed in a way that stacking -is-the-most-efficient-way-to-play-the-game.

hybrid.5027:

Of everything you cited, the CM one is the only accurate one. And I think you mean CM p1 final boss not p3.

Nonetheless you’re right about the bolded part. The important part is that it isnt the corner that is conferring the advantage in any of those cases.

Ya sorry. Path 1 not path 3.

Well corner is not the main thing about stacking. Its about LOSing, limiting the enemy movement, keeping everybody tight together and having a wall to dodge in place.

The corner will help, but you can do a good stack without a corner.

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

5 warriors, CoE p2.

What did I win?

What? I meant OverPowered, I swear!

lol