Suggestion- Raid Difficulty Settings [Merged]
Btw, one thing I wanted to stress, because I think some people missed it in the OP, is that even if it becomes horrifically unbalanced (and I don’t think there’s any reason it would be), it wouldn’t be that big a deal.
I mean, worst case scenario, one of the vanguard groups figures out some crazy exploity strategy that works in easy mode, allowing them to clear the entire raid in like ten minutes. Boom, boom, boom. Way less than intended.
Well so what?
It would still be subject to the weekly lock-outs, so they could only get any reward from it once per week, and that reward would be less than the hard mode version. They could earn the same rewards by half completing the hard mode bosses a few times and wiping. And since failure would not be rewarded in easy mode, the one-time victory prize is all they could get from it until next week. And of course even if they do manage this feat, they’d still want to go on to complete the hard mode version each week, since they would then get the larger reward from doing that.
I mean it’s not ideal, and I’m certain they could do better than that, but even if they screw up, the price of failure is negligible to the game as a whole. So what’s the harm?
This is why you shouldn’t be listened to, you do not care about raids, you consider heavy damage done to them as “negligible to the game.”
Would you please just leave raiding alone, you obviously aren’t the right sort to be touching it, thanks.
The real issue here isn’t fairness. It’s perception. A percentage of the playerbase feels disenfranchised by raids for different reasons.
They want legendary armor, but they’re forced into a content format they don’t like.
They had missing story and feel raids are too far out of their comfort zone.
They don’t like the idea that there’s content they they perceive to be beyond their ability or time schedule to do.
It doesn’t matter if this is fair or not, or if those feelings are right or reasonable. All that really matters is the percentage of people who feel disenfranchised and how that affects the game over all.
I don’t think Anet will be sitting there thinking this isn’t fair to raiders if people are leaving the game, and this is one of the reasons.
Ultimately it comes down to people’s perceptions. I think HoT was fine, but it doesn’t matter what I think because a lot of people, for different reasons, disagree. That means those people didn’t buy the game.
Anet therefore would care less about my opinion than that of those who didn’t buy the game. That’s a business decision and it’s a good one. No reason to bother sellign the game to me, since I already bought it.
However, I do feel a bit disenfranchised by raids. I don’t like the effect it has on my guild and I think they really shouldn’t have been brought into this game. Over time, it may be that enough people will feel disenfranchised enough to walk away and find another game.
Raiders might say good. They don’t deserve those rewards. But if enough people leave and not enough people raid, there eventually will be less game, less staff, less updates.
Anything Anet can do to bridge the gap between raiders and non-raiders simply might be a good idea from a business point of view, depending on programming cost vs. number of people who want it.
I’d prefer an easier mode raid just to experience the story without all the tedious mucking about finding a group of people and banging away at it.
Btw, one thing I wanted to stress, because I think some people missed it in the OP, is that even if it becomes horrifically unbalanced (and I don’t think there’s any reason it would be), it wouldn’t be that big a deal.
I mean, worst case scenario, one of the vanguard groups figures out some crazy exploity strategy that works in easy mode, allowing them to clear the entire raid in like ten minutes. Boom, boom, boom. Way less than intended.
Well so what?
It would still be subject to the weekly lock-outs, so they could only get any reward from it once per week, and that reward would be less than the hard mode version. They could earn the same rewards by half completing the hard mode bosses a few times and wiping. And since failure would not be rewarded in easy mode, the one-time victory prize is all they could get from it until next week. And of course even if they do manage this feat, they’d still want to go on to complete the hard mode version each week, since they would then get the larger reward from doing that.
I mean it’s not ideal, and I’m certain they could do better than that, but even if they screw up, the price of failure is negligible to the game as a whole. So what’s the harm?
This is why you shouldn’t be listened to, you do not care about raids, you consider heavy damage done to them as “negligible to the game.”
Would you please just leave raiding alone, you obviously aren’t the right sort to be touching it, thanks.
Please try to explain why, in simple terms, the reason that a lower level raid option would harm it?
You may not realize why you are being so defensive of the present situation
Btw, one thing I wanted to stress, because I think some people missed it in the OP, is that even if it becomes horrifically unbalanced (and I don’t think there’s any reason it would be), it wouldn’t be that big a deal.
I mean, worst case scenario, one of the vanguard groups figures out some crazy exploity strategy that works in easy mode, allowing them to clear the entire raid in like ten minutes. Boom, boom, boom. Way less than intended.
Well so what?
It would still be subject to the weekly lock-outs, so they could only get any reward from it once per week, and that reward would be less than the hard mode version. They could earn the same rewards by half completing the hard mode bosses a few times and wiping. And since failure would not be rewarded in easy mode, the one-time victory prize is all they could get from it until next week. And of course even if they do manage this feat, they’d still want to go on to complete the hard mode version each week, since they would then get the larger reward from doing that.
I mean it’s not ideal, and I’m certain they could do better than that, but even if they screw up, the price of failure is negligible to the game as a whole. So what’s the harm?
I’ve been reading your walls of text, bud. Why don’t you go read mine? I explained the harm from the perspective of a raid leader and guild master. It’s not something you would understand if you’ve never done progression raiding.
When they talk about burnout, they’re referring to progression raiding. This is the phase of raiding where you haven’t yet completed the content and raid nights consist of repeated failures with only incremental progress and little or no reward to show for it.
How easy do you really think it is to keep players showing up for that each week? And what do you suppose the impact on an already demoralized raid is when a critical player leaves and has to be replaced with someone who hasn’t put in any time practicing with the group?
That’s the true challenge of raiding and why it requires so much time. These guys who talk about how you only need an hour or two each week to raid are talking about farm content. Progression requires much more time and managing the logistics is the biggest challenge.
That’s why LFR was such a big problem over in WoW. By the time new recruits reached the new recruit stage, they had already done several iterations of the same content on easy mode. Not only does this not prepare them for the current tier, it forms unrealistic expectations (I’ve done this before! This should be EASY!) and when those expectations aren’t met, it causes undue stress on top of the stress inherent to progression raiding. Unfortunately, that translates into higher turnover rates – the death of many a raiding guild!
So, again, I agree with the goal of making content accessible to GW2’s core player base. I just think you’re lacking perspective when you say that adding the GW2 equivalent of LFR will have no impact on the players raiding was intended for.
The real issue here isn’t fairness. It’s perception. A percentage of the playerbase feels disenfranchised by raids for different reasons.
Wouldn’t it better if new content was released for those that don’t Raid, instead of making the Raid accessible to them?
And besides that, I get the question all the time: “Can I raid in Exotics, or do I need Ascended?”
This question means a simple thing: the player asking it hasn’t done 5-man content of the game. Otherwise, if they’ve done their number of dungeons and/or fractals, they’d have Ascended ready.
It’s not as simple as the OP says “let’s make it accessible to more people by making it easier”, we are talking about people who can’t dodge Kholer’s spin (yes they still exist), should the Raid be made for them too? There are people who haven’t done Mai Trin level 50 or killed Giganticus Lupicus in Arah, unless they bought them, or got carried. Should the new “easy mode” be for them too?
Making an “easy mode” opens a new can of worms. Let’s make an honest question, in terms of Fractals, at which level would you put this “easy mode”?
(edited by maddoctor.2738)
“Please try to explain why, in simple terms, the reason that a lower level raid option would harm it?”
Please see my previous post. I’m not the one you’re replying to, but if you don’t see the potential harm, I submit that you are lacking perspective.
Having said that, I am willing to entertain the possibility that GW2 raiding is not “hardcore” and perhaps the problems associated with attempting bleeding edge raid content in other games are not so severe. Under that assumption, perhaps it could work?
Even so, I’d advise caution. This is uncharted territory for GW2. I don’t think it would be wise to jump right into the same mistakes WoW made.
Btw, one thing I wanted to stress, because I think some people missed it in the OP, is that even if it becomes horrifically unbalanced (and I don’t think there’s any reason it would be), it wouldn’t be that big a deal.
I mean, worst case scenario, one of the vanguard groups figures out some crazy exploity strategy that works in easy mode, allowing them to clear the entire raid in like ten minutes. Boom, boom, boom. Way less than intended.
Well so what?
It would still be subject to the weekly lock-outs, so they could only get any reward from it once per week, and that reward would be less than the hard mode version. They could earn the same rewards by half completing the hard mode bosses a few times and wiping. And since failure would not be rewarded in easy mode, the one-time victory prize is all they could get from it until next week. And of course even if they do manage this feat, they’d still want to go on to complete the hard mode version each week, since they would then get the larger reward from doing that.
I mean it’s not ideal, and I’m certain they could do better than that, but even if they screw up, the price of failure is negligible to the game as a whole. So what’s the harm?
This is why you shouldn’t be listened to, you do not care about raids, you consider heavy damage done to them as “negligible to the game.”
Would you please just leave raiding alone, you obviously aren’t the right sort to be touching it, thanks.
Please try to explain why, in simple terms, the reason that a lower level raid option would harm it?
You may not realize why you are being so defensive of the present situation
I’ve made 4 other posts explaining my position, scroll up and read them.
Burnout really hurt WoW’s raiding by introducing multiple difficulties, diverting resources to nerfing current raids instead of creating new ones. These are my 2 main practical points.
Also having nothing to push players to play better and causing Anet’s numbers on who raids to be skewd by the easy mode are more theoretical and ideological points.
Raids are solid as is and I don’t want the boat rocked by people who, by their own admission, aren’t really that bothered about raiding. People who don’t like raids are gagging for more content (I understand this) but please do not try and destroy something other people care about (raids) when what you really want is faster LS3.
I am for 5 man raids too but they should not be easier. Anet will not do this they said it and that is because they do not understand how to develop the game. They made wrong decisions and a lot of ppl left or playing other games now. I have a focus on another MMO too and I do only dailies in GW2 because they ruined it with their raids.
Anet have to deal with their decisions now.
The best way is to play another game which does not change their way of develop and does what it promises.
One of the small elite team who isn´t affected by idiocy.
(edited by Bloody.2089)
I agree 100% with coulter. By design and feedback raids are successful and that is great for the game (from what I have heard). Allowing more resources on a content that only a small portion of players truly cares about will be a waste. I would rather have ls3 coming in the same release as wing 2 but the fact is I think it is impossible, for the simple reason that satisfying a larger playerbase of players will take more time than releasing content for a small playerbase. We have great mechanics of classes, we need great encounters and raids fulfill that role. furthermore if they dedicate too much time to raids by designing levels they might derail the release of more important content, such as wvw, ls3, fractals, SAB and legendary weapons and legendary armor as a consequence.
The real issue here isn’t fairness. It’s perception. A percentage of the playerbase feels disenfranchised by raids for different reasons.
Wouldn’t it better if new content was released for those that don’t Raid, instead of making the Raid accessible to them?
And besides that, I get the question all the time: “Can I raid in Exotics, or do I need Ascended?”
This question means a simple thing: the player asking it hasn’t done 5-man content of the game. Otherwise, if they’ve done their number of dungeons and/or fractals, they’d have Ascended ready.
It’s not as simple as the OP says “let’s make it accessible to more people by making it easier”, we are talking about people who can’t dodge Kholer’s spin (yes they still exist), should the Raid be made for them too? There are people who haven’t done Mai Trin level 50 or killed Giganticus Lupicus in Arah, unless they bought them, or got carried. Should the new “easy mode” be for them too?
Making an “easy mode” opens a new can of worms. Let’s make an honest question, in terms of Fractals, at which level would you put this “easy mode”?
It would be better of we didn’t feel we were missing particularly story. That’s a big thing for some of us. I play for story. Story is my progression, more than anything else.
Locking story behind the raids, unless it’s something like Fractals where the stories don’t pertain to the world, disenfranchises me.
And not being able to get the ability to change stats on armor bother me some too. It’s not like it’s something you can show off. Why not make a super cool amazing raid skin for raiders and not deny others that functionality.
I mean a guy who does nothing but WvW is going to perhaps want legendary armor. Making someone raid to get it seems excessive.
Provide skins, minis, titles to raiders, not items that give them an actual benefit that others could benefit from as well.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
And you dragged GW2 over to your raiding mentality instead of leaving it alone and letting it remain a non-raiding game.
He did nothing of the sort. The developers did as they felt and rightly so that adding content for controlled slightly larger than average encounters would foster community growth. It has.
Unfortunately a very vocal minority, oddly enough the same minority who complained about dungeons are now complaining about raids.
This group is never satisfied because following this flow chart is too hard for them. Replace Speed Run with “Non-Casual”.
“vocal minority”?
80% of the players play solo
90% dont raid at all
WHO is the vocal minority?
Citation needed. Thanks.
And sense i’m seeing a metric ton of personal attacks here against those that have raid i’ll just ask questions instead of those that still want an “easy” mode ?
1) How much time have you invested into the game
2) How much of that time is on a character you intended to raid with
3) How versatile a player are you when it comes to swapping your build
4) How much time if any have you spent in a guild
5) How much time if any have you spent organizing a consistent Raid group
6 ) How much time if any have spent failing to get the kill
7) Have ever taken the time to read a guide / watch a video about the raid encounter
8) Do you really understand the joy of overcoming failure with 9 other players
For all of you trying to gut raids down to having this easy mode remember, there are people out there who do this for hours on end in various guilds of various skill levels.
You’re complaints about it being hard are likely down to you being stubborn or unwilling to learn. I’m not saying this because i’m trying to talk down to you, however i’m saying this based on experience as someone who has sunk probably around 4 weeks into VG (2-3 hrs a day/ on Friday/Sat) with my guild getting it to a farmable state and another 4 weeks on Gorseval. You know what i would never ever ever remove, the joy of hearing those guild members realize they can do this, the tears, the laughter, the fun moments we’ve had. You know why we’ve had them, because we aren’t afraid of the challenge, death is a joke of an excuse to be afraid in this game, learn from your mistakes and iterate on your failures until you to succeed.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.
’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’
It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.
So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.
’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’
It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.
Actually they do take away quite a bit, like building up a community and groups of players who are willing to actually work together.
Half the reason why we have such complaints about HoT / Raids is because the game was nerfed down to such a dismal state that near about everything could be solo’d.
Now we have added 1 piece of 10 man group content and people flip out instead of actually working with eachother and forming groups and communities. Heck i bet if all the “anti-raid/easy mode” crowd simply took some initiative and formed a guild that served as a raid roster you too would be able to complete the raid.
It would be better of we didn’t feel we were missing particularly story. That’s a big thing for some of us. I play for story. Story is my progression, more than anything else.
Locking story behind the raids, unless it’s something like Fractals where the stories don’t pertain to the world, disenfranchises me.
And not being able to get the ability to change stats on armor bother me some too. It’s not like it’s something you can show off. Why not make a super cool amazing raid skin for raiders and not deny others that functionality.
I mean a guy who does nothing but WvW is going to perhaps want legendary armor. Making someone raid to get it seems excessive.
Provide skins, minis, titles to raiders, not items that give them an actual benefit that others could benefit from as well.
So you’ve never ever in your gw2 career partied up with other players to do story/living story? Because that really is what gw2 raid is.
Legendary armor stat switch is most laughable moot point – " But it improves quality of life becuase I don’t have to carry around armor sets" – no instead you have to buy and carry around stacks of runes everytime you switch stats or else have substandard damage- power runes with condi armor or condi runes with power armor.
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
(edited by Swagger.1459)
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)
Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
I suppose that I could get behind this if the dev resources for the easy mode version were drawn from the general PvE pool rather than the very limited pool of raid resources.
There would be an impact on LS3 development, but to a much lesser extent than on ongoing raid development due to relative dev team size.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.
You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
This won’t and shouldn’t happen for a lot of reasons.
- The developer investment to both create and maintain the easy mode is substantial and would require a substantially larger raid team. You may think that this would be ‘easy to do’ but it’s not, especially not on the timetable that they’re making raids (3 wings per expansion).
- The net ROI from an easy mode raid is very low. So more people can experience the raid and crush it with ease, what have they actually gotten out of it then? They can already experience the story with friends’ cleared instances (by design), so really all they’d be getting is some easy boss kills. Raids already go very fast if everyone succeeds first try, so it wouldn’t even be very meaningful added content for casual players especially on a weekly timeout.
- If the rewards are the same but with just a lower chance of dropping, it still significantly guts the prestige of any of the rewards. This would not be something they would do, so all rewards would have to be gut with the exception of some gold and maybe a pathetic amount of magnetite shards.
The combination of these things makes an easy mode raid very, very unlikely and very, very hard to effectively justify.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.
Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.
That’s what the achievements are for. They add artificial difficulty and breed new strategies for the encounter.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
The 100 tiers of Fractals aren’t so much different in terms of mechanics, in fact a level 20 and a level 100 fractal are the same. The thing about the Raid is that it’s all about mechanics, Fractal difficulty is all about damage and hit points, there is a clear difference here. They are not exactly the same to balance, nor should be.
But that’s my point. All I’m asking for here is a “lower fractal difficulty.” The current raid is like a Fractal 70 or so, I’m looking for a Fractal 20 or less version of it. Identical mechanics, toned down stats so that less precision is necessary to prevent a wipe.
The fact that everything else in the game is NOT well balanced is an argument against adding a new version of content. The devs have a terrible record when it comes to risk vs reward balancing.
Of course not. The fact that GW2 continues to be a generally fun and engaging game makes clear that “perfect” balance is completely unnecessary. Would they get the balance wrong on easy mode raids? Maybe. Would that still be better than not having easy mode raids at all? Definitely.
To allow the Raid team to do what it is already doing, releasing more Raids, that’s their job.
And nobody is getting in the way of that. The raid team can continue to produce new raids, nobody is talking about slowing them down at all for more than half a day. If it really is a problem, don’t even bother them with it, pull someone out of the general pool to handle the work, but seriously, it shouldn’t be more than a few hours, tops, and then they can get back to what they were doing.
As for the “easy mode” Raid I made a suggestion of making them Fractals, that’s ~5-6 new Fractals right there. A lot more work for sure, but from the Fractal team and a reward system that doesn’t need any kind of balancing, it’s already there. If the goal is for players to see the story of the Raid then it succeeds with flying colors AND gives a bazilion new fractal content for the fractal crowd.
This would be a far worse solution. Obviously it’s a lot more work, they’d need to redesign all the mechanics to go from ten-man to five-man, which would involve changing the timings of numerous effects. For someone who said that a simple numbers tweak was “way too hard to consider” this is pretty much insane. And part of the point is to give all players a path to getting the raid rewards, a slower path, but still a path, so putting it in the Fractals would completely fail at that, which is want you want because “mah elitism!” So no, this is a terrible idea and I do not support it.
This is why you shouldn’t be listened to, you do not care about raids, you consider heavy damage done to them as “negligible to the game.”
That is not what I said. No matter how this shakes out it would not do “heavy damage to the raids.” That’s my point. Even in the worst case scenario of what I proposed, one which I do not believe would come to pass, it would only offer the weekly equivalent of trying and failing at the existing raid a few times. It would NEVER deal “heavy damage to the raids.”
When they talk about burnout, they’re referring to progression raiding. This is the phase of raiding where you haven’t yet completed the content and raid nights consist of repeated failures with only incremental progress and little or no reward to show for it.
I read what you had to say, and agreed with it. Burnout is bad, and “bang your head against the wall until it cracks” gameplay is a primary cause of burnout. That is why there should be an alternative for players who have no interest in that sort of gameplay. Hard mode raiding should exist for people who enjoy that sort of thing, but alternatives should exist for those who don’t. The game should not have mechanisms to provide canon fodder for a system in which they really would rather not participate.
You say a lot of words, but your words are about how you didn’t like how WoW did things, and I’m not suggesting anything that has anything to do with WoW. My proposal is nothing like a LFR tool, it is a completely separate mode for people who do not want to play raids in their current form. If they eventually mode up to playing the hard mode versions, or even in “progression” content, then that works to your benefit. If they never do that, then they were never yours to own in the first place. They owe you nothing, they do not exist for your amusement, they exist for their own fun, and if this is more fun for them than the way you would prefer them to play, then this is what they should be doing with their time.
Wouldn’t it better if new content was released for those that don’t Raid, instead of making the Raid accessible to them?
The two are in no way mutually exclusive. They should both release new content AND make raids more accessible.
It’s not as simple as the OP says “let’s make it accessible to more people by making it easier”, we are talking about people who can’t dodge Kholer’s spin (yes they still exist), should the Raid be made for them too? There are people who haven’t done Mai Trin level 50 or killed Giganticus Lupicus in Arah, unless they bought them, or got carried. Should the new “easy mode” be for them too?
Yes, the easy mode should be for everyone. I’m not saying it should be tuned so that ten of the very worst players should be able to pass it, but like with most world bosses, between ten players, if it’s lightly tuned, a handful of reasonably good players would be able to carry the rest with minimal hassle on their part. In a standard ten-man pug you’d end up with 3-4 people who could probably do decently on hard mode but don’t want to deal with the hassle, 3-4 people who couldn’t find their sword arm with colorful diagrams, and then the rest would be reasonably capable but not quite raid-ready, and that would be good enough to get through the easy mode without much trouble.
Making an “easy mode” opens a new can of worms. Let’s make an honest question, in terms of Fractals, at which level would you put this “easy mode”?
Answered above.
Also having nothing to push players to play better and causing Anet’s numbers on who raids to be skewd by the easy mode are more theoretical and ideological points.
this should in no way skew ANet’s numbers. ANet should have two numbers. They should have the number of people playing on hard mode, and the number of people playing on easy mode. They can use these numbers to determine what the players are doing, and how to allocate resources in future content. This much should be obvious, so I can only assume that you worry that they will see a lot more people playing on easy mode than on hard, and that this would lead to more development of easy=-mode style content and less effort into tuning for the hard mode. This is certainly possible, but ONLY if that’s what the players want.
1) How much time have you invested into the game
2) How much of that time is on a character you intended to raid with
3) How versatile a player are you when it comes to swapping your build
4) How much time if any have you spent in a guild
5) How much time if any have you spent organizing a consistent Raid group
6 ) How much time if any have spent failing to get the kill
7) Have ever taken the time to read a guide / watch a video about the raid encounter
8) Do you really understand the joy of overcoming failure with 9 other players
1. 3,660
2. Really depends on what builds are raid-viable, but 200-1000
3. Somewhat, but ideally my build is what’s most fun, not at the whim of content
4. A couple years?
5. A week or two, it did not go well.
6. Same.
7. Obviously.
8. Yes, and I also understand that it’s not something that particularly interests me.
For all of you trying to gut raids down to having this easy mode remember, there are people out there who do this for hours on end in various guilds of various skill levels.
Nobody is talking about “gutting” anything. The existing raids will still be there, completely untouched, and there will still be plenty of reason to do them even if you can do the easy modes, since the rewards for easy modes would be very time-limited. It wouldn’t be like the dungeons where you could choose to do a hard path or an easy path three times instead. If you want to argue against easy mode, go ahead, but do not use falsehoods to do so.
You know why we’ve had them, because we aren’t afraid of the challenge, death is a joke of an excuse to be afraid in this game, learn from your mistakes and iterate on your failures until you to succeed.
And that’s great, if that’s the sort of experience you and your guildmates enjoy, then you can continue to have them, but for players who genuinely are different people than you, with different personalities, they will have other options. Just because you feel a certain way about something doesn’t mean that people who feel differently “just aren’t getting it,” they might just genuinely react to situations differently than you do, and would not appreciate the highs of it as much as you do, enough that it offsets the downs for them.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.
That’s what the achievements are for. They add artificial difficulty and breed new strategies for the encounter.
Not looking for artificial difficulty just to get and achievement, no less than we are talking about making it artificially easier to get the same loot as the hard version. I’m talking about real difficulty to get tangible stuff, like loot. either more of it, higher chance or better.
Unlike Core, the events and meta in HoT DO prepare you for many of the mechanics in raids, so I think the easymode raid is rather pointless.
But that’s my point. All I’m asking for here is a “lower fractal difficulty.” The current raid is like a Fractal 70 or so, I’m looking for a Fractal 20 or less version of it. Identical mechanics, toned down stats so that less precision is necessary to prevent a wipe.
So you want something even easier than release dungeons… You do know that it’s possible to do Vale Guardian without for example touching the green circle? If they make it so it deals less damage the fight won’t be easy, it will be trivial in the end. That’s why I say it’s not as easy to do multiple difficulties in a mechanics fight compared to a tank & spank fight.
And part of the point is to give all players a path to getting the raid rewards, a slower path, but still a path, so putting it in the Fractals would completely fail at that, which is want you want because “mah elitism!” So no, this is a terrible idea and I do not support it.
I thought the point was so you can experience the story of the Raid, not get the rewards “easy mode”
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
And you’ve yet to have any valid complaints….It is nothing more than entitlement. At the end of they day your argument is “Joe and Bob can raid, therefore I should be entitled to a mode for me” without ever looking at why Joe and Bob are actually able to raid and complete it.
You claim raids don’t offer enough “Diversity” or are “Exclusive” when in reality they are not.
Raids are open to players, who themselves want to. Who put in the very small modicum of time to socialize and find 9 players to play with. Literally every class has option so please spare me the meta debate.
If you cannot raid, it is a you problem not a game problem.
So you want something even easier than release dungeons… You do know that it’s possible to do Vale Guardian without for example touching the green circle? If they make it so it deals less damage the fight won’t be easy, it will be trivial in the end. That’s why I say it’s not as easy to do multiple difficulties in a mechanics fight compared to a tank & spank fight.
Whatever it’s at now, easier than that. Quibble about the details all you want, you aren’t going to change any minds.
I thought the point was so you can experience the story of the Raid, not get the rewards “easy mode”
Then you should have read the OP before posting.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
So you want something even easier than release dungeons… You do know that it’s possible to do Vale Guardian without for example touching the green circle? If they make it so it deals less damage the fight won’t be easy, it will be trivial in the end. That’s why I say it’s not as easy to do multiple difficulties in a mechanics fight compared to a tank & spank fight.
Whatever it’s at now, easier than that. Quibble about the details all you want, you aren’t going to change any minds.
Have you done the Raid at least once? It would be nice so you know the difference between a mechanics fight and a normal fight? It’s like asking for Liadri’s big shadow fall attack to deal less damage so players who can’t dodge it can survive it. That doesn’t make the fight “easier”, it makes it a walk in the park, 1-shot KO attacks are meant to be exactly that, 1-shot KO attacks.
I can’t even imagine the fight with Sabetha if her flamewall wasn’t 1-shotting people. The problem is in the details you want to avoid them because it suits you, but it’s those details that are the important part.
It sounds good in theory. In practice, however, there are unintended consequences.
They did this over in WoW and it turned out to be a terrible idea, in my opinion. The problem is that each tier of difficulty essentially becomes “training” for the next tier in much the same way that players expect random pickups to prove they’ve completed the content and know what they’re doing in the current scenario. The result: burnout.
As a former raid leader and guild master from WoW, I can tell you that burnout is the death of all raiding guilds. Everyone puts in the time (so much time!). Then, for whatever reason, you lose a core raider to burnout, to other guilds, to internal conflict, to life, or what have you.
You find a replacement, but usually end up having to carry them as they learn to work within a system that has been fine-tuned with hours upon hours of practice. That’s obviously bad for morale, particularly if the change results in the raid having to take a step backward in progress. The danger of losing players to burnout increases.
When WoW made the decision to essentially force us through several iterations of the same content with varying levels of difficulty, it exacerbated the problem. Now you have to vault the psychological wall of running easy mode versions of the same content and only then reaching what we call the “progression” stage, where the danger of burnout is highest.
You simply don’t have to deal with any of this in casual 5-man content. If a player drops group, you and 9-39 other players didn’t invest hours of effort with that player, so it’s really not as big a deal. You also don’t have to worry about your progress resetting every time that happens or the resulting cascade of players leaving (I’ve seen plenty of solid raiding guilds go out this way! Even “best on server” guilds!).
I know. It’s ridiculous. But that’s what raiding is. If you’re the raid leader, it feels much more like an obligation than a game. You have so many people relying on you, investing their time to accomplish a shared goal. You can’t let them down!
I’m not an elitist. That whole aspect of raiding is something I never tolerated well. I’m simply attempting to illustrate the difference between casual and hardcore content. I realize they don’t play well together, and I wish there were a way around it. But I’m not convinced that attempting to blend the two in this way is wise.
I think your complaint is valid. If I knew of a way to make it work, I think everyone should be able to enjoy raiding. The encounters really can be a lot of fun, and there’s nothing quite like the sense of accomplishment you get when you put in the time with your guild and after days or even weeks of failure you finally succeed!
I just can’t agree with this particular solution. I think it has a real chance of ruining raid content for the very people it was intended for.
The only reason this was the case in WoW was due to vertical gear progression and the need to complete lower difficulties to acquire the item levels to compete with the harder difficulties. That element is absent from GW2, so it would be purely choice as to whether or not you wanted to do hard or easier difficulties.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
Have you done the Raid at least once? It would be nice so you know the difference between a mechanics fight and a normal fight?
I’ve tried Vale Guardian several times with my guild but we never got past the third roaming phase. I’ve watched WP’s videos on each of the fights, as well as a few others, so I’m aware of how the mechanics on each works and at least some ways to handle them.
As I said, the mechanics would be left intact, all that would be reduced is the penalties for failing that mechanic. In each fight there are several points at which if you fail it would cause you to die, maybe the whole team to die, leading to an unrecoverable situation. The changes I would suggest to the defensive side of things is to make it so that these effects are significantly less lethal, enough that you’d notice you got hit, perhaps set the team back a bit, but would only kill players who were already fairly low, and the party as a whole could still recover and complete the objective most of the time. It might take a substandard party a few tries to get it right, but it shouldn’t take nearly as many as the existing versions.
This is all in the OP, I shouldn’t need to re-explain it if you actually read it. I’m really starting to think you never actually read it.
That doesn’t make the fight “easier”, it makes it a walk in the park, 1-shot KO attacks are meant to be exactly that, 1-shot KO attacks.
And that’s a brick wall that will never be passed for people who don’t enjoy the high-tension “screw up once and it’s over” style gameplay. I feel proud of myself when I do something slick, whether the game required that I do it or not, but I feel very frustrated when the game requires perfection of me and I fall short. I hate the latter feeling far more than I would ever enjoy the former, I get the impression that you are the other way around, and that’s fine, you enjoy what you enjoy and let me enjoy what I enjoy.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
that’s fine, you enjoy what you enjoy and let me enjoy what I enjoy.
So not raids correct ?
Okay now that we are on the same page. Can we enjoy what we enjoy and you go play whatever mode it is that has 100% success rate without the chance of failure.
As I said, the mechanics would be left intact, all that would be reduced is the penalties for failing that mechanic
How is a 1-hit KO mechanic the same if it’s no longer a 1-hit KO mechanic? If you can avoid a 1-hit KO mechanic by outhealing it then it’s no longer a 1-hit KO mechanic. And if you can tank the damage it changes the entire fight completely, I told you, you can “tank” the green circle at VG and never go touch it. It IS possible now.
So not raids correct ?
Not in their current form, no, hence the suggestion for a version that would be more appealing to players who do not enjoy the current version of gameplay.
Okay now that we are on the same page. Can we enjoy what we enjoy and you go play whatever mode it is that has 100% success rate without the chance of failure.
Yes, that is the entire point, glad you agree.
How is a 1-hit KO mechanic the same if it’s no longer a 1-hit KO mechanic?
A flame wall is still a flame wall whether it insta-kills you or not. The point is to try and avoid it, the only difference is whether A. failure to avoid it cause you to be permanently out of that attempt, or B. failure to avoid it causes significant damage, perhaps wasting people’s time to rez you, but you can continue on.
Players would still know whether they succeeded at it or not, and could measure their personal success based on how well they did at it, but without collapsing the entire encounter for the group. I previously used the example of the Golem MKII, where it’s possible to fully avoid everything he lays down, and it can be a fun personal challenge to attempt to do so, but if you screw it up a bunch of times that’s ok, because the event continues on and you aren’t ruining it for everyone else.
And if you can tank the damage it changes the entire fight completely, I told you, you can “tank” the green circle at VG and never go touch it. It IS possible now.
And all I’m asking is that this would be possible for players with less optimal builds and skills. As you note, the vanguard players have figured out ways to complete the raids with much smaller and more focused teams than intended, in much less time than intended, using unorthodox tactics, so it’s not like the existing raids are balanced to the level of perfection that for some reason you insist an easy-mode raid would need to be. There will likely be people who will have a very easy time with the easy mode raids, and that’s fine, that’s what it’s there for. The rewards for doing so would be relatively negligible though, so this is in no way harmful to anyone or anything.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
So not raids correct ?
Not in their current form, no, hence the suggestion for a version that would be more appealing to players who do not enjoy the current version of gameplay.
Okay now that we are on the same page. Can we enjoy what we enjoy and you go play whatever mode it is that has 100% success rate without the chance of failure.
Yes, that is the entire point, glad you agree.
Cool, i just happened to find the mode you’re looking for
Now you get the story, with all of its goodness in-tact, you dont have to worry about failure or loot.
Now everyone is happy yes ?
A flame wall is still a flame wall whether it insta-kills you or not.
No it’s not. And when you are asking for less damage I suppose you are not asking for at least 90% of your health but something like 50% or 60%? Something you can tank easily and forget the flamewall even exist.
I thought the point was so you can experience the story of the Raid, not get the rewards “easy mode”
I support this kind of easymode; Just like the first time you do a dungeon to experience the story, but the rewards were crap. THAT I can agree with.
Cool, i just happened to find the mode you’re looking for
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkJ9LiR2Hh0Now you get the story, with all of its goodness in-tact, you dont have to worry about failure or loot.
Now everyone is happy yes ?
No, read the OP.
No it’s not. And when you are asking for less damage I suppose you are not asking for at least 90% of your health but something like 50% or 60%? Something you can tank easily and forget the flamewall even exist.
I think it would be enough to have something that auto-downs you even, just not auto-kills you, something where a few people could survive to rez everyone else. Maybe also remove the “no rez from dead” lockout, so anyone could be saved at the expense of slowing everyone else down.
I think the ideal balance point would be that players should be strongly encouraged to avoid these attacks, there should be some penalty to it, just not a wipe-inducing penalty unless everyone eats it.
I mean there are two types of OHKO type effects, ones in which I screw up, and it kills me, and ones where I screw up and it kills everyone, right? The ones where personal responsibility results in personal punishment, they can leave at least most of the punishment intact, so if a few people screw it up, they get smacked, the rest of the group has to rally them, everyone moves on. For the latter, where the entire party is wiped by the failure of a single player (or the failure of a few), the effect would be toned down more so that the group knows they failed, but it would not necessarily require a reset.
Does this mean that some people could “face tank” the encounter with the right builds? Darn toot’in. Definitely. It’s impossible to make content that is achievable by middling players without simultaneously making it possible for expert, min/maxed players to coast through it by comparison. But again, this is NOT a problem, because the rewards for doing so would be relatively negligable for those who can already manage the hard mode raid, and would not be worth it for them to abandon the hard mode raid in favor of the easy mode. Worst case “faceroll” scenario, it would at most be a slight magnetite bonus for their week.
The more positive scenario is that a group that is genuinely committed to improving could really try to do it right every week, and “doing it right” would involve hitting the mechanics in exactly the same way as the current raid, for example avoiding the flame wall completely, every time. They wouldn’t have to do that in order to succeed, but if they did manage it, they would know it, they would have that feeling of personal accomplishment, and if they could complete the easy mode “the right way,” then they would be well on their way to being able to run the hard mode, well ahead of anyone just jumping directly into hard mode for the first time.
If people just want to get through it easily then that is an option, but if they want to use it for training then that is an option too, and would work a lot better for many people than the current option of “keep failing completely until eventually you don’t.”
Again, this would make the encounter easier, I understand that, that is a feature, not a bug.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
(edited by Ohoni.6057)
I think making an easy form of raids is a complete waste of time to the raid devs (the argument that this would only take half a day is absurdly false, how would they handle achievements? rewards?) It’s also an insult to people who actually have and take the time to learn the raids (which aren’t that difficult) to suggest that others should be able to breeze through them and get even a fraction of the rewards for them.
So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.
’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’
It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.
Oh and demanding that content be brought down to your difficulty level isn’t the selfish thing? Please continue to tell me how I am selfish. I’m starting to think YOU guys are the toxic people.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
Tex makes all sorts of assumptions and adds random things into the counter argument.
I merely provided a suggestion for difficulty scaling options and wrote a final comment in general community terms, reread the op.
Interesting, where do you come up with the “because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible pve content even at the expense of other players” part? Seriously, what “expense of other players” are you talking about with regard to difficulty scaling?
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
(edited by Swagger.1459)
In general, I’m against it. Why? Because of what LFR (Looking For Raid) in WoW has become.
It gave people an option to basically netflix through all raids they wanted, with obviously nerfed rewards and everything was cool, but…
They didn’t see a point in raiding in “regular” mode whatsoever again, because they believed they’ve already seen and experienced the content, which besides textures being the same in LFR and Normal/Heroic/Mythic raiding is totally inadequate.
LFR purged the excitement behind raiding, the urge to actually experience what game has to offer. Blizzard tried to re-ignite the spark with many changes to “regular” version of raids and make starting a raid as easy as possible, but it doesn’t matter all that much and problem persists.
Give open, cleared instances to people who want to experience the lore, but don’t make bosses easier.
[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
Tex makes all sorts of assumptions and adds random things into the counter argument.
I merely provided a suggestion for difficulty scaling options and wrote a final comment in general community terms, reread the op.
Interesting, where do you come up with the “because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible pve content even at the expense of other players” part? Seriously, what “expense of other players” are you talking about with regard to difficulty scaling?
Maybe not you in particular, but there are definitely people who think that because they do not like raids, they NEED to change. If you are merely suggesting a change and not demanding it, fine.
As should be obvious, adding a difficulty scaling to raids takes time from the devs that could be used to continue making the amazing content they are right now.
So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.
’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’
It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.
Oh and demanding that content be brought down to your difficulty level isn’t the selfish thing? Please continue to tell me how I am selfish. I’m starting to think YOU guys are the toxic people.
Do you understand the proposal being made here? Adding difficulty scaling doesn’t take anything away from the existing raid. It would create an additional, separate mode for other people.
This isn’t even a personal crusade for me, I can manage normal raids. But there are a lot of people who simply do not have the time or ability to ‘get good’. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for the a difficulty setting that could accommodate everyone.
Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.
It’s called adding options.
“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.
Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.
Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.
I didn’t say “all”.
You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.
Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.
Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.
My analogy fits perfectly here.
You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.
It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.
Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.
If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.
There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.
“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.
Except he’s not assuming anything, your own statements make it clear that the only reason you are complaining about raids is because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible PvE content even at the expense of other players.
Tex makes all sorts of assumptions and adds random things into the counter argument.
I merely provided a suggestion for difficulty scaling options and wrote a final comment in general community terms, reread the op.
Interesting, where do you come up with the “because you feel entitled to enjoy every possible pve content even at the expense of other players” part? Seriously, what “expense of other players” are you talking about with regard to difficulty scaling?
Maybe not you in particular, but there are definitely people who think that because they do not like raids, they NEED to change. If you are merely suggesting a change and not demanding it, fine.
As should be obvious, adding a difficulty scaling to raids takes time from the devs that could be used to continue making the amazing content they are right now.
I provided some suggestions and reasons why. It would be helpful for all of us if you looked at my op and subsequent comments so there is a better understanding of this discussion.
Are you suggesting that the devs are incapable of working on both?
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
This isn’t even a personal crusade for me, I can manage normal raids. But there are a lot of people who simply do not have the time or ability to ‘get good’. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for the a difficulty setting that could accommodate everyone.
Everyone has the time and ability to “get good”. They as a person just choose not too, for whatever reason.
I’ve had people within my own guild go from fresh outta queensdale level of raiding (eating every seeker) to being one of the most reliable members for the raid.
So sorry, don’t buy this one bit.
A difficulty setting will not solve the personal issue of a player being unwilling to learn.