So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
What awful advice, like every encounter ever it’s better to have a full team of Berserkers. Someone lowering the team’s DPS by say , wearing PVT is how you get your team killed. At most you want one or two people to cleanse Weakness as it’s applied because it absolutely wrecks your damage.
Semi-related story, was Pugging AC p3, one of the Guardian’s knew the entire order of the burrows so I entrusted him with my Ice Bow, much to my surprise he quickly picked it up and used #4 on the next burrow, only for it to survive with a 3rd of its health left….
#PuGlyf \m/
the only time I failed stacking spider queen was when I felt ballsy and did an all lowbie AC pug. downscaled FGS hits like a wet towel, lol. we ranged spider queen and it wasn’t too bad.
I can see the point that some users make. berserker melee should be high risk high reward, but it’s not really hard to run full berserker parties (esp. if you stack warriors).
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
What awful advice, like every encounter ever it’s better to have a full team of Berserkers. Someone lowering the team’s DPS by say , wearing PVT is how you get your team killed. At most you want one or two people to cleanse Weakness as it’s applied because it absolutely wrecks your damage.
Semi-related story, was Pugging AC p3, one of the Guardian’s knew the entire order of the burrows so I entrusted him with my Ice Bow, much to my surprise he quickly picked it up and used #4 on the next burrow, only for it to survive with a 3rd of its health left….
#PuGlyf \m/
logic dictates that hitting harder reduces the mob damge right?
get the bucket out of your head man… read what he is wondering… no matter how harder he hits, how faster the mobs dies, if the spider kills the group seconds after the initial pull its not a matter of killing it faster but surviving the initial aoe damage the party suffers.
Think before reply please. Of course we all know (and are sick of) your optimal builds, but it doesnt work for every party set up. Specially for 5 random guys placed together in a dungeon.
Your “related” story has absolutly no comparisson with his story. Its not the same scenario, its not the same reason why they are dying. Its not the same and does not apply.
A PVT player can solo the spider; its cake with heals and cleans; stop telling lies.
It will always be faster with a zerk build, but people won’t die because of low dps. If you can’t endure (and die) the spider fight (or any other boss) because its “too long” then you are doing something wrong.
(edited by Mesket.5728)
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
Pretty much the opposite of this. You usually die if the group has low dps. If everyone is high dps, the spider dies very quickly, like most everything in the game. I’ve only ever seen wipes in pugs with multiple below 80 players.
The day a boss (and their adds) hits with reduced damage because he has lower HP your answer will have any value… till that day comes. You just wasted some bits on the internet.
read again please… HE IS DYING RIGHT AFTER THE PULL BECAUSE THE BOSS DO X DAMAGE AND X CONDITIONS. Its not rocket science to survive that but if NOBODY can heal or remove condis not even for themselves, they will have troubles no matter how hard they can hit.
Besides, before more lies are spread… in a group with support players the only thing that kills you is boredom… HPs bar wont even reach 90%.
Dodge normal attack, tank/cleanse heal the immobilize attack (even zerk ele can survive at least 2 full web attacks as long as they cleanse immob at end). If spider queen is using Poison AoE while you are stacked on the wall, that’s easier fixed with better pulling than wearing gear that gives you No Dps.
I don’t know why people took my comment to a gearing discussion. I suggested that while pugging with random players, switch to group heals / condi cleanse. Last time i check utility skills are not located in the armor slot…
I was responding to this:
logic dictates that hitting harder reduces the mob damge right?
get the bucket out of your head man… read what he is wondering… no matter how harder he hits, how faster the mobs dies, if the spider kills the group seconds after the initial pull its not a matter of killing it faster but surviving the initial aoe damage the party suffers.
It will always be faster with a zerk build, but people won’t die because of low dps. If you can’t endure (and die) the spider fight (or any other boss) because its “too long” then you are doing something wrong.
Which is incorrect. People do die because of low dps. Condition removal and invulns, contrary to popular belief, actually have cooldowns. And that immobilize will make you unable to evade her regular attack which does quite a bit of damage and applies weakness. Your statement about everyone who isn’t able to endure “any other boss” fight for very long periods of time is “doing something wrong” also implies that you think people should run defensive gear.
Finally, if the spider queen is doing the poison AOE that ticks for moderate-high damage on your stack behind the wall, that’s easier fixed with better pulling than wearing more defensive gear to absorb the damage or using cooldowns better spent on absorbing her web attack.
The whole risk/benefit analysis completely goes away when stacking is able to be used.
Make melee do higher burst, so they can damage, jump away during heavy hits.
Make range do more sustained as they are further away.
“But why would anyone do melee than?!” O I don’t know…fun? The same reason people want to range? Fun…?
Most of the time people die on the initial spider pull is because they are getting owned by the spider adds. Her auto attack and web attack hit pretty hard, but they aren’t going to one shot a party. however, if 5-10 of those little spiders unload on your party and you don’t have a reflect up you will melt.
I was responding to this:
logic dictates that hitting harder reduces the mob damge right?
get the bucket out of your head man… read what he is wondering… no matter how harder he hits, how faster the mobs dies, if the spider kills the group seconds after the initial pull its not a matter of killing it faster but surviving the initial aoe damage the party suffers.
It will always be faster with a zerk build, but people won’t die because of low dps. If you can’t endure (and die) the spider fight (or any other boss) because its “too long” then you are doing something wrong.
Which is incorrect. People do die because of low dps. Condition removal and invulns, contrary to popular belief, actually have cooldowns.
Yes, but how many pug warriors die in the hands of poison and bleeds without having shake it off equiped? that skill has very low cooldown and works aoe. A party has 5 members, I’m not saying the 5 of them has to equip cleanse and group heals. Everyone knows their character and knows what they are good at… not taking shake it off to get a signet on a warrior in a fight like spider queen is in fact not knowing your class well enough.
And that immobilize will make you unable to evade her regular attack which does quite a bit of damage and applies weakness. Your statement about everyone who isn’t able to endure “any other boss” fight for very long periods of time is “doing something wrong” also implies that you think people should run defensive gear.
No, you are just assuming that. I never said that doing something wrong equals use defensive gear. It means doing something wrong. Simple as that. Besides elite skills (or things like banners with very long cooldown), or utter dps teams.. you will hardly ever kill any boss without using your utilities at least twice, so not enduring the fight is not a matter of gear equiped but utilities chosen and when to use them.
Again, I never talked about gear. And another thing… this was a response to a player who has a problem while pugging. If you are going to give advise that works on your guild party, just don’t. It doesn’t work the same way while pugging. Almost none meta build will work on a pug group. Stop insisting.
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
Pretty much the opposite of this. You usually die if the group has low dps. If everyone is high dps, the spider dies very quickly, like most everything in the game. I’ve only ever seen wipes in pugs with multiple below 80 players.
The day a boss (and their adds) hits with reduced damage because he has lower HP your answer will have any value… till that day comes. You just wasted some bits on the internet.
read again please… HE IS DYING RIGHT AFTER THE PULL BECAUSE THE BOSS DO X DAMAGE AND X CONDITIONS. Its not rocket science to survive that but if NOBODY can heal or remove condis not even for themselves, they will have troubles no matter how hard they can hit.
Besides, before more lies are spread… in a group with support players the only thing that kills you is boredom… HPs bar wont even reach 90%.
Like others said, if they’re dying right after the pull, it was a bad pull – nothing to do with build. There’s no reason to accuse me of lying, considering I’ve done it hundreds of times and you can easily find videos. The lie is that a full support team hp bars won’t even reach 90%, you wouldn’t be able to out dps all that damage.
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
Pretty much the opposite of this. You usually die if the group has low dps. If everyone is high dps, the spider dies very quickly, like most everything in the game. I’ve only ever seen wipes in pugs with multiple below 80 players.
The day a boss (and their adds) hits with reduced damage because he has lower HP your answer will have any value… till that day comes. You just wasted some bits on the internet.
read again please… HE IS DYING RIGHT AFTER THE PULL BECAUSE THE BOSS DO X DAMAGE AND X CONDITIONS. Its not rocket science to survive that but if NOBODY can heal or remove condis not even for themselves, they will have troubles no matter how hard they can hit.
Besides, before more lies are spread… in a group with support players the only thing that kills you is boredom… HPs bar wont even reach 90%.
Like others said, if they’re dying right after the pull, it was a bad pull – nothing to do with build. There’s no reason to accuse me of lying, considering I’ve done it hundreds of times and you can easily find videos. The lie is that a full support team hp bars won’t even reach 90%, you wouldn’t be able to out dps all that damage.
Bolded makes no sense. Please elaborate a bit more.
The lie I accused you is that support players gets you killed. That is a fallacy usually coming from elitist kids sporting their full dps builds because they and their 4 friends can do a boss in 10 seconds. That is not what will happen in a pug team. Players buy that lie, build their characters following those video guy’s builds and fail. The saddest and pathetic part… is that when that 1 guy that bought the gw2 dream build from a video or an elitist post, come here and blame the other 4 for his failure.
Poison spray is a problem of bad pulling, but is not what I was talking about.
(edited by Mesket.5728)
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
Pretty much the opposite of this. You usually die if the group has low dps. If everyone is high dps, the spider dies very quickly, like most everything in the game. I’ve only ever seen wipes in pugs with multiple below 80 players.
The day a boss (and their adds) hits with reduced damage because he has lower HP your answer will have any value… till that day comes. You just wasted some bits on the internet.
read again please… HE IS DYING RIGHT AFTER THE PULL BECAUSE THE BOSS DO X DAMAGE AND X CONDITIONS. Its not rocket science to survive that but if NOBODY can heal or remove condis not even for themselves, they will have troubles no matter how hard they can hit.
Besides, before more lies are spread… in a group with support players the only thing that kills you is boredom… HPs bar wont even reach 90%.
Like others said, if they’re dying right after the pull, it was a bad pull – nothing to do with build. There’s no reason to accuse me of lying, considering I’ve done it hundreds of times and you can easily find videos. The lie is that a full support team hp bars won’t even reach 90%, you wouldn’t be able to out dps all that damage.
Bolded makes no sense. Please elaborate a bit more.
The lie I accused you is that support players gets you killed. That is a fallacy usually coming from elitist kids sporting their full dps builds because they and their 4 friends can do a boss in 10 seconds. That is not what will happen in a pug team. Players buy that lie, build their characters following those video guy’s builds and fail. The saddest and pathetic part… is that when that 1 guy that bought the gw2 dream build from a video or an elitist post, come here and blame the other 4 for his failure.
Poison spray is a problem of bad pulling, but is not what I was talking about.
Nothing to elaborate on the bolded, I simply don’t believe it to be true. Feel free to post a video proving me wrong and I’ll gladly admit error.
I didn’t say support gets people killed. I said you usually die in the spider stack method because of low dps, high dps will kill the spider rather quickly. I admit, I did misinterpret your first post to say they should use support builds, when you were actually just talking about skills, my apologies for the misunderstanding. Of course there’s nothing wrong with running Shake it Off there, although I personally don’t because warrior dps utility skills are far too valuable.
Lastly, I run zerker meta builds in pugs all the time. In fact, I find the higher overall dps of the pug is directly proportionate to how smooth the run goes in general.
Nothing to elaborate on the bolded, I simply don’t believe it to be true. Feel free to post a video proving me wrong and I’ll gladly admit error.
I’m pretty sure he means that he was unable to interpret what you meant with that sentence due to poor grammar structure, and he was just asking for a rephrasing of it that is easier to understand.
So er… am i the only one to have been in a spider queen pug fail attempt at stacking? It’s like most of my runs. I’m starting to think that i’m the problem…
Yes, it happens more often when EVERYONE is on a pure dps set and build and the party don’t know each other… switch to “support” utilities (what ever it has condi removal or group heals) and its cake again.
What awful advice, like every encounter ever it’s better to have a full team of Berserkers. Someone lowering the team’s DPS by say , wearing PVT is how you get your team killed. At most you want one or two people to cleanse Weakness as it’s applied because it absolutely wrecks your damage.
Semi-related story, was Pugging AC p3, one of the Guardian’s knew the entire order of the burrows so I entrusted him with my Ice Bow, much to my surprise he quickly picked it up and used #4 on the next burrow, only for it to survive with a 3rd of its health left….
#PuGlyf \m/logic dictates that hitting harder reduces the mob damge right?
get the bucket out of your head man… read what he is wondering… no matter how harder he hits, how faster the mobs dies, if the spider kills the group seconds after the initial pull its not a matter of killing it faster but surviving the initial aoe damage the party suffers.
Think before reply please. Of course we all know (and are sick of) your optimal builds, but it doesnt work for every party set up. Specially for 5 random guys placed together in a dungeon.
Your “related” story has absolutly no comparisson with his story. Its not the same scenario, its not the same reason why they are dying. Its not the same and does not apply.
A PVT player can solo the spider; its cake with heals and cleans; stop telling lies.
It will always be faster with a zerk build, but people won’t die because of low dps. If you can’t endure (and die) the spider fight (or any other boss) because its “too long” then you are doing something wrong.
Re-read the original post. He said the stack failed, not that his team insta-died within the first second. The two most common reasons for the stack to fail is someone breaking the stack causing her to drop poison, or low DPS.
My Semi-related story was more a comical side note, something that probably should’ve gone in Funniest Player Fails.
A Berserker can solo the Spider Queen, faster too, what’s your point?
Honestly this ‘Bunker and win’ mentality is beyond outdated, I made the same mistake when I first started playing ~Full PVT Mace/Shield + Banner Heal Warrior~
Yes you can get through almost all content without even needing to dodge, I could out endure everything the boss would unload while my pathetic squishy teammates face planted everywhere. Only now do I understand that it was likely because of me that they were dying in the first place, I was essentially making them 4 man content.
In response to a few of your other posts, PuG’s fail when they try to copy speedclear tactics because they’re in a team full of selfish Meskets who then whine at him for dying despite dealing 90% of the party’s damage before going down, unfortunately succumbing to not enough endurance and skill CD’s which never would have happened if his party had bothered to contribute to damage.
Also you don’t need an organised party to understand that DPS>all, even the lousy CoF farmers understood that killing the Slave Driver quickly was better than trying to “endure” him.
Stop encouraging people to be bad, it’s why the PuG community is so god awful.
(edited by Dolan.3071)
Urgh, here we go again… Same old trash about berserker builds being better than everything else… I ran CoE with a zerker warrior constantly complaining about the lack of DPS and kept dying every 5 seconds. On the other hand, the two eles, guardian and ranger than no problem staying alive. I wonder what contributes to the lack of DPS – having to rez that warrior who is downed every 5 seconds or just really bad builds on all the rest of us? Hm…
On the other hand, I have played as an Ele with full healing specs and was the last one standing but couldn’t finish off a boss because I was doing next to no damage. I agree that dps is needed.
A more moderate argument is that the best chance of succeeding is to have players who know how to use their builds effectively. So as an Ele, no, I may not be able to dish out insane damage, but I guarantee that I will be stacking those area might combos, frost aura for protection, and handing out fury to everyone so that those who are DPS traited are even more effective.
On the one hand, I fundamentally agree with Dolan in that glass cannon power building is straight-up not risky enough because killing something faster is minimizing the danger far too effectively.
It is the problem in PVE right now, and I want it fixed like yesterday, so I’m sort of not kosher with people downplaying the problem.
On the other hand, I tend to think people go a little bananas over berserker sometimes in that slapping a couple pieces from something else is honestly not the end of the world, so long you’re still basically favoring Power and Precision overall. I know quite a few people who need to rock some PVT gear to get the job done, and if that’s what you have to do that’s what you have to do.
(edited by Vox Hollow.2736)
Urgh, here we go again… Same old trash about berserker builds being better than everything else… I ran CoE with a zerker warrior constantly complaining about the lack of DPS and kept dying every 5 seconds. On the other hand, the two eles, guardian and ranger than no problem staying alive. I wonder what contributes to the lack of DPS – having to rez that warrior who is downed every 5 seconds or just really bad builds on all the rest of us? Hm…
On the other hand, I have played as an Ele with full healing specs and was the last one standing but couldn’t finish off a boss because I was doing next to no damage. I agree that dps is needed.
A more moderate argument is that the best chance of succeeding is to have players who know how to use their builds effectively. So as an Ele, no, I may not be able to dish out insane damage, but I guarantee that I will be stacking those area might combos, frost aura for protection, and handing out fury to everyone so that those who are DPS traited are even more effective.
Actually, Subject Alpha is one of those bosses where going full DPS is far and away superior. His big aoe dodge checks might happen twice per encounter in a full dps team. In a bunkery team, he might do it 10-12 times before he dies. 1-2 times, for average players chances are they won’t screw up a dodge. If you ask that same average player to go 12 of 12 on dodges, there is a pretty good chance they will mess up one of them, and the attack is brutal enough that even a full bunker isn’t likely to be able to eat it without going down.
So if the price of failure is the same for full zerker or bunker (going down if you fail a dodge) but the chances of failure are demonstrably better on one of the options it is a no brainer, logically speaking.
Then again, we could be back to the age old “I’m a pro WvWer main tank and pve is easy so why should I respec from my healway sentinels build for something as easy as pve” mindset in which case, you can’t save them.
Nothing to elaborate on the bolded, I simply don’t believe it to be true. Feel free to post a video proving me wrong and I’ll gladly admit error.
I’m pretty sure he means that he was unable to interpret what you meant with that sentence due to poor grammar structure, and he was just asking for a rephrasing of it that is easier to understand.
Exactly, thanks. English is not my first language and sometimes I get lost.
I don’t understand what he said.
Nothing to elaborate on the bolded, I simply don’t believe it to be true. Feel free to post a video proving me wrong and I’ll gladly admit error.
I’m pretty sure he means that he was unable to interpret what you meant with that sentence due to poor grammar structure, and he was just asking for a rephrasing of it that is easier to understand.
Exactly, thanks. English is not my first language and sometimes I get lost.
I don’t understand what he said.
It’s okay, English IS my first language and I still didn’t get it.
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